[IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?

Bill Kerr billkerr at gmail.com
Mon Sep 7 10:03:25 EDT 2009

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Gary C Martin <gary at garycmartin.com> wrote:

> Hi Bill,
> On 7 Sep 2009, at 12:09, Bill Kerr wrote:
>  I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version
>> If I have a project loaded, saved and named
>> Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it
>> doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version
>> I have to first close the current version and then open the older version
>> to get it
> This is not a bug with TurtleArt. It's (in my view) the major design
> backfire that is the "Keep" button... Keep is not like a copy, duplicate or
> 'save as' file operation in other OS environments. Sugars "Keep" is actually
> a (bad) attempt at "Keep version snap shot", unfortunately no where in the
> Journal UI is this visually indicated/referenced. Think of "Keep" a little
> like non-linear undo states stored to Journal.
> The problem with all this is that Sugar currently treats all versions you
> "Keep" from an activity as the same activity. You can only have one of the
> versions active at once, this is what you're seeing when you try to resume
> (what you think is another old activity is actually a version) and Sugar
> switches to the current version of it you already have open.
> To create fresh new activities, you need to:
> 1) start new activity
> 2) create masterpiece
> 3) stop activity
> 4) goto step 1
> If you ever find yourself clicking "Keep" give your self a small jab in the
> hand with a sharp protractor ;-)

hi gary,

I'm doing some of the barry newell 40 shapes challenge I posted on another

Some of the shapes are related to other shapes
eg. after I do shape 6 then I want to Keep that as BN6 then use it again to
make BN7, etc
So I change the name in the box from BN6 to BN7 and click Keep
It does work similar to Save As ...
If I go to the Journal and click the arrow on the right the image represents
the different versions
But the confusion arises when I try to open an old version and just get back
to the currently open version

So I can achieve something like Save As ... but can't achieve opening two
versions at once, as you say

> In every release of Sugar to date, "Keep" == horrible design failure, even
> for the upcoming 0.86. The problem is "the real deal" (true versioning) is
> always just over the horizon, like the pot of gold at the end of the
> rainbow, and the blasted button some how makes it through (and causes way
> more grief then it ever solves as the common use case is "I want a duplicate
> copy of this").
> Regards,
> --Gary
>  Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample
>> project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly
>> return to my current project to implement there
>> I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then
>> close sample, then reopen current project, etc.
>> Please correct if I am wrong about this
>> _______________________________________________
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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