[Sugar-devel] Translations

[Utkarsh Tiwari]

Hello,
          I had volunteered to help Sugarlabs with some translations but
the thing is that my first language is Hindi and I am fluent in English.
Would there be any issues if I use Google translator to translate any
project to some other language (except Hindi and English) ? Is it allowed?

regards,
Utkarsh Tiwari

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:35 AM, Nick Doiron <ndoiron at mapmeld.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone... I'm in the Unicode Consortium so I'm happy to help work out
> i18n tech issues in our Sugary ecosystem.
>
> On the original point, I agree with Tony that it would be valuable to hire
> an i18n/l10n point person. This funding has been around for a while without
> any one person responsible for shipping it. You might want additional
> support or conversation, from Open Technology Fund, Localization Lab, or
> Adobe, for the position and workshops.
> I'd like to see some people narrowing down where they know we need a
> translation. If you can say *I know a teacher who wants this *or* we use
> this activity in Language A and want it in Language B, *we should be able
> to deliver that.  There are interesting politics and discussions here, but
> the funding is for translating and not for not-translating.
>
> Technology side: it matters if you're translating Sugar, core Sugar
> activities, additional activities, or Sugarizer. This is essential because
> they're different programs at different levels of completeness, in use by
> different people.
> - Sugar and core activities have been ready from the beginning using
> gettext and accepting translations on Pootle. I don't see that changing,
> unless we want to use GitHub to reach younger developers.
> - Additional activities: you would need to look on a case-by-case basis,
> to see if text was hardcoded. Also you need special attention if language
> is part of the activity, as in typing tutors, flipbooks, or crossword
> puzzles. Tangential blog post:
> https://medium.com/@mapmeld/crosswords-in-burmese-f672ae583649
> - I did some research, and Sugarizer has three translation files,
> including this master file:
> https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/blob/master/locale.ini  Other
> web-based activities should use Polyglot.js from Airbnb; it's cool.
>
> Nick
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Caryl Bigenho <caryl at laptop.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks
>>
>>
>> Here are some thoughts on Internationalization and Localization...
>>
>>
>> 1) The most important consideration is what the local people really want…
>> not what we think they want or think they should want. Maybe they are happy
>> with English. On the other hand, maybe they would prefer their own local
>> language (or dialect). Don't assume anything. Don't ask just one person.
>> Ask enough people to get a genuine consensus.
>>
>>
>> 2) Using students to provide localization is an excellent educational
>> activity. However, it needs to be overseen by an "expert" (maybe their
>> teacher) to insure it is both accurate and appropriate before submission to
>> Pootle.
>>
>>
>> 3) The Spanish of Mexico is slightly different from the Spanish of Peru
>> and/or the Spanish of Argentina (etc., etc,, etc). Using students for
>> localization could be helpful here and, I'm sure for other languages.
>>
>>
>> 4) Again, for Spanish… why not look to our largest Sugar deployment,
>> Uruguay, for enlisting students to help? One of the SLOBs (José Miguel
>> García) is Uruguayan as is super-star teacher Rosamel Ramirez.
>>
>>
>> 5) Applying to GSOC for help in any aspect with this work seems like a
>> "no brainer" but the deadline for applications for 2016 was yesterday! [image:
>> Emoji]
>>
>>
>> Caryl
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:44:28 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Translations
>> From: sora at unleashkids.org
>> To: holt at laptop.org
>> CC: tony_anderson at usa.net; tim at timmoody.com; ndoiron at mapmeld.com;
>> caryl at laptop.org; sverma at sfsu.edu; sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org;
>> localization at lists.laptop.org; walter at sugarlabs.org;
>> slobs at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>>
>> The success of the first translation will depend on how established /
>> knowledgeable the local community is. Reviewing the first round of Haitian
>> Creole translations, which I think were done by volunteers, you notice some
>> obvious problems, like inconsistent terms. I've personally seen students
>> and teachers become confused by these issues when using the computer. They
>> keep using it anyway, but it definitely affects the user experience. Now,
>> hopefully the attitude of "this is the wrong way to say it" will inspire
>> the next round of volunteers to do a better translation - but that's a big
>> assumption to make.
>>
>> I think it's important to remember that in many of these places, language
>> ideology is something communities are working through. All the research
>> supports literacy / learning in the mother-tongue language, but in many
>> places the languages kids speak at home are seen as inferior to the ones
>> they learn in school - not just because the one they learn in school is
>> more widely-spoken, but because of myths that the language spoken at home
>> is not "advanced" enough to study something like science / math / tech.
>>
>> So, basically, if the first translation is not adequate, there may not be
>> a second translation. People may decide "This language is not adequate for
>> using the computer" instead "Our translation is not adequate; let's make it
>> better."'
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Adam Holt <holt at laptop.org> wrote:
>>
>> Excellent food for thought Tony!
>>
>> +Sora, Tim, Nick, Caryl to see if they have ideas/suggestions below?
>> On Feb 20, 2016 3:35 AM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
>>
>> As I understand the issue: SugarLabs has some funds available to support
>> translation of Sugar. At the SLOBs meeting, it was proposed that
>> SugarLabs recruit a 'translation manager', a possibly paid position. One
>> question is the job description for this role.
>>
>> I would like to review the translation process:
>>
>> Translation has two separate parts: internationalization(I18n) and
>> localization (L10n).
>>
>> The Sugar-Devel team is responsible for I18n (preparing the framework to
>> support localization) and the community is responsible for L10n - providing
>> translations (by default, from English) to other languages.
>>
>> The immediate focus is on using Pootle as the I18n framework with
>> translators providing the localization.
>>
>> Let's divide the languages into three groups:
>>
>>     - English (the base language)
>>
>>     - Mediums of instruction (languages used at deployments as a common
>> language where more than one language is spoken)
>>
>>     - Local language (languages used by students at home)
>>
>> When a new Sugar release is made, the Pootle English master files should
>> be a part of the release. Sugar development should ensure that Pootle files
>> are available for all software in the release.
>>
>> Sugar may want to provide localization for one or more mediums of
>> instruction (e.g. Spanish, French, Arabic). Since this would imply that
>> files for these localizations are available at release, SugarLabs should
>> decide which, if any, of these languages are to be supported.
>>
>> Deployments (or deployment sponsors) may need localization of Sugar for
>> specific local languages (e.g. Kinyarwanda, Haitian Creole,
>> Sotho, Xhosa). I believe these localizations are most likely to come from
>> Sugar/XO deployments where the language is used. Some would
>> seem to be a given - Cambodian.
>>
>> However, strange things happen. For example, Rwanda is one of the largest
>> and most active deployments. However, there is no Kinyarwanda localization.
>> The reason is probably that in Rwanda the OLPC laptops are part of a path
>> to English. They are introduced at the fourth grade, the first year when
>> the required medium of instruction is English. While Kinyarwanda is a
>> subject in grades 4-6, the priority is using the XOs to facilitate learning
>> in English, Mathematics, and Science.
>>
>> I believe that the Pootle files are distributed and installed with the
>> released image. This should mean that XO users who know English and the
>> native language could provide the localization. Once it is complete, the
>> files can be installed on the XOs at the deployment and the localization
>> would be available at the deployment. Ideally, localization would be done
>> by the students as a learning activity. For example, in Rwanda,
>> localization to Kinyarwanda would help students a lot in learning English.
>> Sameer Verma has provided an excellent tutorial on how to do localization
>> which could be included in the Sugar image.
>>
>> So, the translation manager would be responsible to identify deployments
>> which use specific local languages and work with them to organize 'L10n'
>> days for new releases. The translation manager should then interface with
>> Pootle to submit the localization files for review and acceptance by Pootle.
>>
>> Sugar development could review Sugar (Python) activities to see if they
>> support Pootle and attempt, eg. through GSOC, to get activities upgraded to
>> implement Pootle and to include a base set of English Pootle files.
>>
>> Perhaps OLPC France could be tasked to provide French localization as
>> part of the release process. For Spanish, perhaps Sebastian Silva (Peru) or
>> Plan Ceibal could accept responsibility for Spanish.
>>
>> Meanwhile, being on the other side of the world, I have not made progress
>> on getting a committee to help put their two cents in on this. Clearly,
>> this scenario must be reviewed for Floss Manuals, Sugarizer, and other
>> SugarLabs products which don't fit in this one. Also, how to provide
>> localization of IIAB-2 content is, at least, a formidable question.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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