[Sugar-devel] Sugar-Server enhancement

[James Cameron]

Tony, when you hold down those four game keys you are installing
software from OLPC.  Assuming you haven't set up your own firmware
keys and signed your own images.

When you refer to "Build 85" or "13.2.5", that is OLPC OS.  It was
built by OLPC by combining Fedora, Sugar, and Gnome.  While we used
Sugar, we also added other packages, some of which are specific to
OLPC.

ds-backup is not part of Sugar now, and has not been since the split
that created Sugar Labs.  ds-backup only works with Sugar, XS, or
XSCE.  A tiny part of Sugar sets configuration for ds-backup.

Sugar Labs is independent of OLPC or XSCE, and should work to vision.

If Sugar Labs, or XSCE, would like to host ds-backup client, I'm fine
with that, but at this stage I see no developers interested in
maintaining it that way.  I know George Hunt at XSCE has maintained
the server part of ds-backup, but not the client.

So the ds-backup client remains a software package originated at OLPC
and maintained by OLPC because nobody else is doing it.

I've a duty to software quality in OLPC OS, and have been cooperating
with Sugar Labs to ensure that quality continues.

If maintenance of ds-backup is taken by someone else, then I'll
carefully look at the changes to Sugar and ds-backup before bringing
them into OLPC OS.

As these changes arrive as design discussion or pull requests from the
GsoC students, such as Manash, I try to be clear about changes that I
won't let into OLPC OS, and why I won't let them in.  If I'm not clear
on why, please ask.  The students sure do.  ;-)

Tony, you don't appear to be a developer at Sugar Labs, I've never
seen a git patch from you, you don't submit pull requests, you don't
review them, and you haven't been involved in recent Sugar releases.
You seem committed to using an old release.  I'm not sure what you're
trying to achieve.  It's a puzzle.  But keep trying, you might get
your message across eventually.

Further reply in context is below.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 10:06:15AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
> Hi, Dave
> 
> It is absurd for reasons I have specified the first time James made
> this statement. The two scripts are in /usr/bin. They are invoked by
> the installed Sugar image.

No.  They are invoked by the installed OLPC OS image via systemd.
Sugar does not invoke them.

> The scripts are enabled by /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/jarabe
> The status is specified in /home/olpc/.sugar/defaults. I have in front of me
> an XO-1 with Build 85 (Sugar 0.82.1). If has the two scripts in /usr/bin.
> 
> This version used a file config in /home/olpc/.sugar/default (pre-dating gconf,
> let alone gsetting). This file contains:
> 
> [Server]
> backup1 = [1]SHC84201B0A at schoolserver.linuxtag:backup .

While true, now not relevant.

> The real problem is not the absurdity of claiming that ds_backup is
> not part of Sugar but that the statement attempts to close community
> discussion.

How is it that I can close community discussion?  While I am a mailing
list administrator, I have not ejected you for your misinformation.
You are free to continue with your beliefs, but I will challenge them
where they are based on falsehood.

> I grant it may not be a capability important to James, but it is to
> me.

It is an important capability for OLPC OS.  But not for Sugar, since
Sugar is independent of OLPC and XSCE.

Perhaps it should be removed from Sugar and added back by OLPC and
XSCE as a plugin of some sort.

> I have great respect for James Cameron's technical capabilities. I
> can also understand if he does not feel that this feature scratches
> his itch (or serves the needs of his employer). However, this does
> not entitle him to impose his judgment on the community.

How is it that I have imposed my judgement?  How have I prevented
anything?

> Tony
> 
> On 04/18/2016 08:54 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:
> 
>     Hi Tony
> 
>     On 14 April 2016 at 04:43, Tony Anderson <[2]tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
> 
>         However this is the second time he has claimed that the backup does not
>         have anything to do with Sugar. An absurd position.
> 
>     Perhaps, but as a fellow newbie, it is not obvious to me why this position
>     is absurd. Since it seems important for people to understand, perhaps you
>     could explain it on the wiki or developer documentation somewhere? :) 
>      
> 
>         James is excellent technically, but very new to the
>         community and with limited understanding of the history or
>         field use of the systems.

[shakes head sadly]

Dave, I'm certainly not new.  I've been with OLPC as a volunteer from
2006, and as a contractor since 2009.

>     That's also my impression
>      
> 
>         He probably is not aware that OLPC before the Sugar splinter proposed
>         to actually build a hardware school server.

I was certainly aware and was involved in testing.  I still have one
of those nice active antennas.

>     Since I was very marginally involved in the OLPC community in
>     2007 I do remember this, and I see the
>     https://github.com/XSCE/xsce codebase is very actively recently
>     :) 
> 
>     --
>     Cheers
>     Dave

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:59:24AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
> Jerry,
> 
> I apologize for the word absurd. That was emotional. I should have
> used the 24 hour rule.
> 
> The backup capability is limited to the XO since it is based on its
> serial-number. If may become applicable to SOAS by providing a
> generated serial-number for non-XO platforms.

[shakes head sadly]

No, it is already applicable to non-XO platforms because of random
serial number generation, since Sugar 0.86, thanks to Hamilton Chua
reporting in bug #916, reviewed by Martin Langhoff and committed by
Tomeu Vizoso as 6c832e5 back in 2009.

This is important to me, since my current builds are for Ubuntu hosted
systems that won't have a serial number in the device tree like the
XO-1 through XO-4 have.

> "Please tell me that this is not being deployed, and you are just
> comparing old versions."
> 
> My point was only to show that ds_backup has been a part of Sugar
> since before SugarLabs, but yes it is being deployed.

Again, no, because you are conflating OLPC OS with Sugar.

> Of course, I am free to 'roll' my own images. However, I use what I
> have from Sugarlabs (currently 13.2.5)

No, Sugar Labs did not release 13.2.5, that was me working for OLPC.

>, adding capabilities that I believe are needed by deployments. This
> same process applies to xsce (currently xsce6) as well.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/