[IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

Off the top of my head, the bulk chargers do 10 batteries at a time. I have
two to donate to a large order.

-walter

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:07, Sean DALY <sdaly.be at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam
> > <ibiamchihurumnaya at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
> >> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?
> >
> > If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not
> individuals,
> > there is no "profit".
>
> Profit in a technical sense means surplus remaining after all fixed
> capital costs and labour costs have been paid; some of this surplus is
> typically distributed to a tax authority, and some is reinvested into
> the organization, and in a for-profit org, some is paid out to the
> shareholders as dividends.
>
> Sugar Labs is a project of a US charity, and so the US tax authority
> gives the charity a break on most tax distributions, and there are no
> shareholders so there are no dividends. However, the org still pays
> fixed capital costs and labour costs, and our project contributes to
> both of those by allocating 10% of all revenue to the org.
>
> So buying and selling anything to pay out dividends to private
> individuals is not part of SL's agenda; but buying and selling
> something to create surplus to reinvest into the project is part of
> the agenda (or ought to be, if it is to be an effective project.)
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:20, Sean DALY <sdaly.be at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> individual units regularly clear $100 each
> >
> > If these are functioning units, I support the idea,
>
> The listing says are functioning:
>
> This full listing says: "Qty 172 - OLPC - One Laptop Per Child XO-1
> w/7.5" TFT, 256MB RAM & 1024KB Flash ROM...All have been tested to
> post...More information about these units can be found on line at link
> below...Includes 254 chargers, 90 extra batteries plus 10 charging
> racks, if desired......Customer is responsible for arrangement of
> freight trucking pickup and insurance from our dock, FOB Destination.
> One pallet of laptops, 2 pallets of charging racks....Sold as
> is...Payment must be made within 24 hours of purchase."
>
> "All have been tested to post" suggest to me that they have tested
> them to at least boot and have the screen turn on. I think that is
> good enough for a developer excited about the project, which is the
> market I propose targeting.
>
> > but perhaps what should
> > be done is to try to keep them together in a single microdeployment by
> > partnering with another nonprofit, a sponsor, or a university.
>
> If this raises the same amount of funds for SL, I think that is fine,
> but I am skeptical of that.
>
> > For example a
> > college could do a project for a local elementary school. Sales logistics
> > for individual shipments are difficult, with no benefit to SL.
>
> I totally disagree, I think this is super easy; we get the bulk
> shipment to somewhere in the US (like Walter's house or my apartment)
> and then we ask members to volunteer to share the fulfillment workload
> by taking X units and sticking them under the bed or whatever; then as
> orders trickle in, we send them out one by one, using this list or a
> wiki page to co-ordinate.
>
> > Kept together, we could study the XO's place in the 2016 context,
> showing how the
> > software has evolved.
>
> Per the Pareto principle I am skeptical of the value of studying a
> group of 80 or 160 users, compared to studying a group of 3-5 users.
>
> We do not have a shortage of passive users who don't contribute code to
> Sugar.
>
> We do have a shortage of active developers who do contribute code to Sugar.
>
> > OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for
> years
> > now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.
>
> Great! No need to duplicate that :)
>
> > These units have US keyboards and would be suited to a deployment there
> - it
> > could be problematic to deploy them elsewhere.
>
> US keyboards are ideal for developers; and are fine for anyone being
> instructed in English.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson <sam.parkinson3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?
>
> Yes, and it seems to me that it is essential that Sugar runs OK on the
> XO-1 for another 5 years.
>
> > $100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100
> yeilds
> > you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched
> it
> > on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we
> need to
> > go lower?
>
> For less!?
>
> Actually I would start at $200 (the RRP ;) and asking people to
> enquire about discounts if they need 'em.
>
> Software developers are one of the most expensive labour commodities,
> and buying equipment is a tax write-off for anyone who has their shit
> together.
>
> > But at $75 or $50, that's a nice thing to put on the frontpage of the
> site.
> > This will be amazing.  We can setup the infrastructure for selling
> devices,
> > sending updates to people, etc.  We can empower deployment who need the
> > hardware.
>
> :D
>
> > The "profit" can probably be invested in things we need.  Devel work?
> More
> > capital for selling more devices (aka. things other than XO1)?  Anyway,
> that
> > is off topic... we can deal with that if the money actually eventuates.
>
> :D
>
> > But it is also great for our growth.  Not everybody installs OSes, but
> most
> > people are familiar with the idea of buying a box of hardware.  Is $75
> > expensive?  In a school budget yes probably.  But there are defiantly
> some
> > people who would be willing to spend it.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=average+software+engineer+salary says
>
> "A software developer's average salary, $99,530, is higher than most
> other occupations on our technology jobs list. For instance, a
> software developer made thousands more than computer systems analysts,
> who made an average salary of $87,320 in 2014, and computer
> programmers, who made about $82,690."
> http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary
>
> > This is a very good use of the SL capital.
>
> :D
>
> > We obviously need to think about the risk.  If we spend $4000 on XOs, at
> the
> > price of $75, we need to sell 50 (+more to cover postage costs) to make
> the
> > money back.  Is that likely?  I would say yes... that is about 2 classes
> of
> > students.
>
> If we'll support the XO-1 until 2010, I expect selling them all is
> easy as our deadline will be around August 1st 2019.
>
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=how%20many%20software%20engineers%20in%20the%20us
> says
>
> "There are about 18.2 million software developers worldwide, a number
> that is due to rise to 26.4 million by 2019, a 45% increase, says
> Evans Data Corp. in its latest Global Developer Population and
> Demographic Study. Today, the U.S. leads the world in software
> developers, with about 3.6 million. [Jul 10, 2013]"
>
> -
> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2483690/it-careers/india-to-overtake-u-s--on-number-of-developers-by-2017.html
>
> Its a big market.
>
> > Of course, people will argue that it is not SL's job to get involved in
> > selling hardware.
>
> They are mistaken :)
>
> > On the same token, nobody would say that is NOT SL's job
> > to promote Sugar.
>
> :D
>
> > Selling a small batch of hardware is just a way of
> > promoting our software.  This isn't OLPC scale, SL is not becoming an
> OEM...
> > it is "Uncle Dave's Phone Repair Shop" scale.
>
> ;)
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 06:20, Samuel Greenfeld <samuel at greenfeld.org> wrote:
> > FOB (Freight on Board) means that the responsibility for customs fees,
> > shipping charges, etc. belongs to the buyer.  XOs directly purchased from
> > OLPC historically had similar terms.
> >
> > The shipping calculator on that listing can give you a rough idea of
> what it
> > would cost to get to you in the US (around $500-$1000 uninsured).
>
> Great!
>
> > Personally I think it is a waste of funds and time given that someone
> will
> > have to go through all 172 XOs to verify their functionality, determine
> > which 10-year-old batteries still can hold a charge, make repairs, etc.
> It
> > would primarily be of interest to projects which already get donated
> XO-1s
> > and could salvage parts of necessary,
>
> Which projects are these?
>
> > but not necessarily at the $4k price point.
> >
> > Reselling the laptops as usable also would incur a bit of liability that
> the
> > recycler (selling as-is) is not willing to take.
>
> Per the above, the laptops are not sold as-is but sold as booting. I
> expect some will have dead pixels and those can be sold at a small
> discount.
>
> > About the only good thing
> > is that this recycler does not appear to be shipping from Massachusetts,
>
> The listing says:  "Item location: Alpharetta, Georgia, United States"
>
> > where one recycler was selling pre-release parts even after being told
> they
> > were not usable by anyone else.
>
> Mmm, that's a pity.
>
> > While we seem to have discovered Sugar Labs has money this year, Sugar
> Labs
> > is not a bank for everyone's little pet project.  *Before* we spend any
> > significant portion of funds beyond the significant amount already
> allocated
> > for stipends & translation, I would like to see proof that Sugar Labs can
> > fund raise most of the money already spent back.
>
> I am proposing this as a way to raise funds.
>
> The proof that this can raise funds is that every month, a handful of
> XO-1s sell in the USA ebay for around $100.
>
> Here are the current other XO-1 auctions:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.Xolpc.TRS1&_nkw=olpc&_sacat=0
>
> When Conservancy sells the laptops it won't be considered donation
> income because there will be a material benefit in exchange for the
> money - the laptop - so there may be tax to be paid, but we'd need to
> ask Adam to ask Conservancy to confirm that.
>
> And before Adam does that, the board would need to agree a motion to
> spend $500-5,000 to obtain the laptops.
>
> > The only valid way I could see doing this would be to ask the recycler if
> > they would be willing to just donate the laptops to the SFC (or another
> > 501(c)3 registered XO-using nonprofit) and take the profit as a tax
> > writeoff.
>
> That's a great idea!
>
> > But *before* this gets done, it really needs to be discussed by
> > Sugar Labs' board
>
> For me the board is currently frustratingly slow to respond, so as a
> member I took the initiative to explore the donation opportunity. Will
> keep you posted on what they say.
>
> (Of course I agree the board needs to approve any spending)
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 07:05, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have to say I with Samuel Greenfeld on this one. There are lots of
> > potential issues with these machines (depending upon how they have been
> > stored and maintained.)
>
> With 176 laptops, there are plenty that can be cannabalised for
> missing ears, cracked screens, too many dead pixels, etc
>
> > They could well have dead batteries (both the main
> > battery and the battery for the RTC).
>
> How much are RTC batteries?
>
> > They most certainly will need an
> > investment in time by someone getting them unlocked and reflashed as
> well.
>
> "Unlocking Weekend" coming up ;)
>
> > That said, if we go that route, I have two bulk battery charging racks we
> > could add to the mix.
>
> Those chargers could be a nice incentive for a bulk purchase; how many
> units to those support?
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
<http://www.sugarlabs.org>
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