[IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 13 June 2016 at 04:07, Sean DALY <sdaly.be at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam
> <ibiamchihurumnaya at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
>> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?
>
> If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not individuals,
> there is no "profit".

Profit in a technical sense means surplus remaining after all fixed
capital costs and labour costs have been paid; some of this surplus is
typically distributed to a tax authority, and some is reinvested into
the organization, and in a for-profit org, some is paid out to the
shareholders as dividends.

Sugar Labs is a project of a US charity, and so the US tax authority
gives the charity a break on most tax distributions, and there are no
shareholders so there are no dividends. However, the org still pays
fixed capital costs and labour costs, and our project contributes to
both of those by allocating 10% of all revenue to the org.

So buying and selling anything to pay out dividends to private
individuals is not part of SL's agenda; but buying and selling
something to create surplus to reinvest into the project is part of
the agenda (or ought to be, if it is to be an effective project.)

On 13 June 2016 at 04:20, Sean DALY <sdaly.be at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com> wrote:
>>
>> individual units regularly clear $100 each
>
> If these are functioning units, I support the idea,

The listing says are functioning:

This full listing says: "Qty 172 - OLPC - One Laptop Per Child XO-1
w/7.5" TFT, 256MB RAM & 1024KB Flash ROM...All have been tested to
post...More information about these units can be found on line at link
below...Includes 254 chargers, 90 extra batteries plus 10 charging
racks, if desired......Customer is responsible for arrangement of
freight trucking pickup and insurance from our dock, FOB Destination.
One pallet of laptops, 2 pallets of charging racks....Sold as
is...Payment must be made within 24 hours of purchase."

"All have been tested to post" suggest to me that they have tested
them to at least boot and have the screen turn on. I think that is
good enough for a developer excited about the project, which is the
market I propose targeting.

> but perhaps what should
> be done is to try to keep them together in a single microdeployment by
> partnering with another nonprofit, a sponsor, or a university.

If this raises the same amount of funds for SL, I think that is fine,
but I am skeptical of that.

> For example a
> college could do a project for a local elementary school. Sales logistics
> for individual shipments are difficult, with no benefit to SL.

I totally disagree, I think this is super easy; we get the bulk
shipment to somewhere in the US (like Walter's house or my apartment)
and then we ask members to volunteer to share the fulfillment workload
by taking X units and sticking them under the bed or whatever; then as
orders trickle in, we send them out one by one, using this list or a
wiki page to co-ordinate.

> Kept together, we could study the XO's place in the 2016 context, showing how the
> software has evolved.

Per the Pareto principle I am skeptical of the value of studying a
group of 80 or 160 users, compared to studying a group of 3-5 users.

We do not have a shortage of passive users who don't contribute code to Sugar.

We do have a shortage of active developers who do contribute code to Sugar.

> OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for years
> now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.

Great! No need to duplicate that :)

> These units have US keyboards and would be suited to a deployment there - it
> could be problematic to deploy them elsewhere.

US keyboards are ideal for developers; and are fine for anyone being
instructed in English.

On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson <sam.parkinson3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?

Yes, and it seems to me that it is essential that Sugar runs OK on the
XO-1 for another 5 years.

> $100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched it
> on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we need to
> go lower?

For less!?

Actually I would start at $200 (the RRP ;) and asking people to
enquire about discounts if they need 'em.

Software developers are one of the most expensive labour commodities,
and buying equipment is a tax write-off for anyone who has their shit
together.

> But at $75 or $50, that's a nice thing to put on the frontpage of the site.
> This will be amazing.  We can setup the infrastructure for selling devices,
> sending updates to people, etc.  We can empower deployment who need the
> hardware.

:D

> The "profit" can probably be invested in things we need.  Devel work?  More
> capital for selling more devices (aka. things other than XO1)?  Anyway, that
> is off topic... we can deal with that if the money actually eventuates.

:D

> But it is also great for our growth.  Not everybody installs OSes, but most
> people are familiar with the idea of buying a box of hardware.  Is $75
> expensive?  In a school budget yes probably.  But there are defiantly some
> people who would be willing to spend it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=average+software+engineer+salary says

"A software developer's average salary, $99,530, is higher than most
other occupations on our technology jobs list. For instance, a
software developer made thousands more than computer systems analysts,
who made an average salary of $87,320 in 2014, and computer
programmers, who made about $82,690."
http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-developer/salary

> This is a very good use of the SL capital.

:D

> We obviously need to think about the risk.  If we spend $4000 on XOs, at the
> price of $75, we need to sell 50 (+more to cover postage costs) to make the
> money back.  Is that likely?  I would say yes... that is about 2 classes of
> students.

If we'll support the XO-1 until 2010, I expect selling them all is
easy as our deadline will be around August 1st 2019.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how%20many%20software%20engineers%20in%20the%20us
says

"There are about 18.2 million software developers worldwide, a number
that is due to rise to 26.4 million by 2019, a 45% increase, says
Evans Data Corp. in its latest Global Developer Population and
Demographic Study. Today, the U.S. leads the world in software
developers, with about 3.6 million. [Jul 10, 2013]"

- http://www.computerworld.com/article/2483690/it-careers/india-to-overtake-u-s--on-number-of-developers-by-2017.html

Its a big market.

> Of course, people will argue that it is not SL's job to get involved in
> selling hardware.

They are mistaken :)

> On the same token, nobody would say that is NOT SL's job
> to promote Sugar.

:D

> Selling a small batch of hardware is just a way of
> promoting our software.  This isn't OLPC scale, SL is not becoming an OEM...
> it is "Uncle Dave's Phone Repair Shop" scale.

;)

On 13 June 2016 at 06:20, Samuel Greenfeld <samuel at greenfeld.org> wrote:
> FOB (Freight on Board) means that the responsibility for customs fees,
> shipping charges, etc. belongs to the buyer.  XOs directly purchased from
> OLPC historically had similar terms.
>
> The shipping calculator on that listing can give you a rough idea of what it
> would cost to get to you in the US (around $500-$1000 uninsured).

Great!

> Personally I think it is a waste of funds and time given that someone will
> have to go through all 172 XOs to verify their functionality, determine
> which 10-year-old batteries still can hold a charge, make repairs, etc.  It
> would primarily be of interest to projects which already get donated XO-1s
> and could salvage parts of necessary,

Which projects are these?

> but not necessarily at the $4k price point.
>
> Reselling the laptops as usable also would incur a bit of liability that the
> recycler (selling as-is) is not willing to take.

Per the above, the laptops are not sold as-is but sold as booting. I
expect some will have dead pixels and those can be sold at a small
discount.

> About the only good thing
> is that this recycler does not appear to be shipping from Massachusetts,

The listing says:  "Item location: Alpharetta, Georgia, United States"

> where one recycler was selling pre-release parts even after being told they
> were not usable by anyone else.

Mmm, that's a pity.

> While we seem to have discovered Sugar Labs has money this year, Sugar Labs
> is not a bank for everyone's little pet project.  *Before* we spend any
> significant portion of funds beyond the significant amount already allocated
> for stipends & translation, I would like to see proof that Sugar Labs can
> fund raise most of the money already spent back.

I am proposing this as a way to raise funds.

The proof that this can raise funds is that every month, a handful of
XO-1s sell in the USA ebay for around $100.

Here are the current other XO-1 auctions:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC2.A0.H0.Xolpc.TRS1&_nkw=olpc&_sacat=0

When Conservancy sells the laptops it won't be considered donation
income because there will be a material benefit in exchange for the
money - the laptop - so there may be tax to be paid, but we'd need to
ask Adam to ask Conservancy to confirm that.

And before Adam does that, the board would need to agree a motion to
spend $500-5,000 to obtain the laptops.

> The only valid way I could see doing this would be to ask the recycler if
> they would be willing to just donate the laptops to the SFC (or another
> 501(c)3 registered XO-using nonprofit) and take the profit as a tax
> writeoff.

That's a great idea!

> But *before* this gets done, it really needs to be discussed by
> Sugar Labs' board

For me the board is currently frustratingly slow to respond, so as a
member I took the initiative to explore the donation opportunity. Will
keep you posted on what they say.

(Of course I agree the board needs to approve any spending)

On 13 June 2016 at 07:05, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to say I with Samuel Greenfeld on this one. There are lots of
> potential issues with these machines (depending upon how they have been
> stored and maintained.)

With 176 laptops, there are plenty that can be cannabalised for
missing ears, cracked screens, too many dead pixels, etc

> They could well have dead batteries (both the main
> battery and the battery for the RTC).

How much are RTC batteries?

> They most certainly will need an
> investment in time by someone getting them unlocked and reflashed as well.

"Unlocking Weekend" coming up ;)

> That said, if we go that route, I have two bulk battery charging racks we
> could add to the mix.

Those chargers could be a nice incentive for a bulk purchase; how many
units to those support?

Cheers
Dave