[IAEP] [Sur] Teachers ask programmers / Maestros preguntan a Programadores

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Carlos Rabassa <carnen at mac.com> wrote:
> Texto en Español sigue al texto en Inglés
> Walter,
> I´m afraid I was not clear.
> The reason I brought up the "Circle-the-Cat" game
>
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/gf3/circle-the-cat.html
>
> was not to discuss its value as an educational program.

I am interested in how we can use a simple game or activity to drive
the children to deeper principles, thus I thought I was replying to
the very interesting question:

"Why couldn´t all educational applications be as simple to use as this one?"

And my answer was, some ideas are inherently complex. And of course, I
can also quote Pascal:

Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le
loisir de la faire plus courte.

> You know well I am not a teacher;  as my signature block says,  I am a
> volunteer.  I believe no one should discuss and thus confuse others,
>  subjects outside their field of expertise.
> I mentioned this game only to show it is possible to write applications like
> this one.  I understand they reside in the server we contact to use them.
> All you need to do is to clic on the link I sent and you will be ready to
> use the application.

So you question is about making it easier to access/install software?
Not as interesting a question, but I will try to answer.

> It doesn´t matter which computer and operating system you use,  you clic and
> play,  same as I am glad we both did.
> My question,  which you didn´t answer,  was if this could be an alternative
> to use instead of Sugar,  or maybe a means for delivering the applications
> already developed under Sugar.

Loading a new activity in Sugar is a one-click operation already. What
is different in your example is that you are playing the game while
connected to the server. Sugar was designed with the assumption that
running activities offline would be the norm. We wanted to avoid
making continuous access to the Internet (or even the School Server) a
requirement. That said, there is nothing to prevent running activities
such as Cat in a Circle from Browse.

FYI, the effort we are currently undertaking in migrating Sugar to
GTK-3 will facilitate running activities in a browser. I blogged about
this a few weeks ago: (Please see
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Archive/Current_Events/2011-11-19 Item
#2).

> Please understand I am not trying to put you on the spot;  just bear in mind
> our positions are not the same.

Not sure what position you are subscribing to or what position you are
subscribing me to...

> I understand you are responsible for the development of Sugar.  If you
> prefer not to answer my question I will perfectly understand you.

???

> As all volunteers in Uruguay,  I am responsible to continuously investigate
> the best ways to promote education in our country,  by helping children and
> teachers and by taking the most advantage from the investment in time, money
> and effort involved in launching and maintaining Plan Ceibal.  The personal
> goal of many of us is trying to find out how to accelerate the progress of
> this important and ambitious plan.

Great goal!!

> Our priorities are probably not the same either.  I imagine your first
> priority is to serve the Sugar Community.  My first priority is to serve
> Plan Ceibal and,  through it,  the children, teachers and all uruguayans who
> benefit from it.

Not sure those are incompatible priorities, but my real priority is to
provide great tools for learning for children everywhere. If Sugar
strays from that goal, so will my interest in Sugar.

> So it should be no shame for either of us if we do not agree on every point
> we discuss.  You don´t have to justify yourself for not thinking of
> alternatives to replace Sugar.

I'll spend my time trying to make Sugar better. And I'll continue to
peruse "Turtle in a Pond". I've already gotten some very helpful
feedback from the field on how to improve it.

> Thanks for your help.
>
> Carlos Rabassa
> Volunteer
> Plan Ceibal Support Network
> Montevideo, Uruguay
> www.tiny.cc/AprendoILearn
>
> Texto en Español
> Walter,
>
> Me temo que no fui claro.
> El motivo por el cual traje a colación el juego "Encerrar al Gato"
>
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/gf3/circle-the-cat.html
>
> no fue para discutir su valor como programa educativo.
> Sabes bien que no soy maestro;  como lo dice mi bloque de firma,  soy un
> voluntario.  Pienso que nadie debe discutir y así confundir a otros,  temas
> fuera de su campo de idoneidad.
> Mencione este juego únicamente para mostrar que es posible escribir
> aplicaciones como esta,  que entiendo residen en el servidor que contactamos
> para usarlas.
> Todo lo que necesitas hacer es clic sobre el enlace que envié y estarás
> listo para usar la aplicación.
> No importa qué computadora y sistema operativo tengas,  haces clic y juegas,
>  tal como me alegra ambos hicimos.
> Mi pregunta,  que no has contestado,  era si esto podría ser una alternativa
> para usar en vez de Sugar o, tal vez un medio para hacer llegar a los
> usuarios las aplicaciones que ya se desarrollaron bajo Sugar.
> Por favor,  entiende que no estoy tratando de ponerte en una situación
> difícil;  simplemente considera que no estamos ambos en la misma posición.
> Entiendo que eres responsable por el desarrollo de Sugar.  Si prefieres no
> contestar mi pregunta,  lo entenderé perfectamente.
> Como todos los voluntarios en Uruguay,  soy responsable de investigar
> constantemente los mejores medios para promover la educación en nuestro
> país,  ayudando a niños y maestros y tomando la mayor ventaja posible de la
> inversión en tiempo, dinero y esfuerzo que significa el lanzamiento y
> mantenimiento del Plan Ceibal.  La meta personal de muchos de nosotros es
> tratar de descubrir cómo acelerar el progreso de este importante y ambicioso
> plan.
> Nuestras prioridades tampoco son las mismas.  Tu primera prioridad Imagino
> es servir a la Comunidad Sugar.  Mi primera prioridad es servir al Plan
> Ceibal y a través de él a los niños y maestros y a todos los uruguayos que
> se benefician del mismo.
> Por lo tanto no debemos avergonzarnos si no estamos de acuerdo en todos los
> puntos que discutimos.  No necesitas justificarte por no pensar en
> alternativas para remplazar a Sugar.
> Gracias por tu ayuda.
>
> Carlos Rabassa
> Voluntario
> Red de Apoyo al Plan Ceibal
> Montevideo, Uruguay
> www.tiny.cc/AprendoILearn
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2011, at 1:27 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> 2011/11/29 Carlos Rabassa <carnen at mac.com>:
>
> Texto en Español sigue al texto en Inglés
>
> While trying to improve my reflexes and mouse control,  playing this game
>
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/gf3/circle-the-cat.html
>
> A fun game.
>
>
> a question I heard from so many teachers over the past three years,  came
>
> back to my mind once again:
>
> Why couldn´t all educational applications be as simple to use as this one?
>
> At least part of the problem is that some ideas are complex. That
>
> doesn't mean that the tools need to be needlessly complex, but
>
> sometimes too simple is a problem as well. Let's take Circle the Cat
>
> as an example. It would, IMHO, be a much richer learning experience if
>
> you could design your own rules for the cat. (I will include this
>
> feature when I make the Sugar version.) But that will lead to more
>
> complexity, undoubtedly.
>
> I made a rough pass at an activity (used a turtle instead of a cat):
>
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/27763/turtle_in_a_pond-1.xo
>
> The graphics need some work and I need to make it a but more obvious
> how to customize the strategy, but you can write your own strategy for
> the "turtle".
>
> enjoy.
>
> -walter
>
> -waltetr
>
> I didn´t have to buy it or install it.  I didn´t have to select among
>
> several versions to choose the one suitable for my computer.
>
> I was never able to answer this question.  Perhaps someone among you could
>
> explain us what´s wrong with our reasoning.
>
> I´m sure something is wrong.  Otherwise all applications would be as easy to
>
> use as this one.
>
> Please bear in mind I am writing from Uruguay where a very large number of
>
> schools have their own server connected to internet.  Also there is a
>
> program well under way to make sure every school child can connect to
>
> internet either from home or from a 3-block radius from home.
>
> Not being an expert,  I imagine programs like this one of the cat reside on
>
> the server to which we connect to play.
>
> This could open the competition to write applications to every programmer in
>
> the world who has the required knowledge.
>
> Teachers with ideas for good educational applications could write them
>
> themselves or find a programmer willing to do it.  The teacher could select
>
> the programmer without restricting the choice to those willing to work as
>
> unpaid volunteers under the rules of SugarLabs.
>
> This way,  educators,  the only experts in education,  would be the judges
>
> of which applications have educational value.
>
>
> Texto en Español
>
> Mientras trataba de mejorar mis reflejos y control del ratón,  jugando este
>
> juego
>
> http://www.members.shaw.ca/gf3/circle-the-cat.html
>
> volvió a mi mente una vez más, una pregunta que muchos maestros me hicieron
>
> durante los últimos tres años:
>
> ¿Por qué todas las aplicaciones educacionales no pueden ser tan sencillas de
>
> usar como esta?
>
> No tuve que comprarla o instalarla.  No tuve que elegir entre varias
>
> versiones una adecuada a mi computadora.
>
> Nunca pude contestar esta pregunta.  Tal vez alguno de ustedes pueda
>
> explicarme la falla de mi razonamiento.
>
> Estoy seguro algo está equivocado.  De lo contrario todas las aplicaciones
>
> serían tan fáciles de usar como esta.
>
> Por favor tengan en cuenta que estoy escribiendo desde Uruguay,  donde un
>
> gran número de escuelas tienen su propio servidor conectado a internet.
>
>  También hay un programa ya en etapa avanzada de implementación,  para
>
> asegurar que todos los niños pueden conectarse a internet,  sea desde sus
>
> casas o desde lugares a no más de tres cuadras de las mismas.
>
> No siendo un experto,  imagino que los programas como este del gato,
>
>  residen en el servidor al cual nos conectamos para jugar.
>
> Esto podría abrir la competencia para escribir aplicaciones a cualquier
>
> programador en el mundo,  que tenga los conocimientos necesarios.
>
> Los maestros con ideas para buenas aplicaciones educacionales,  podrían
>
> escribirlas ellos mismos o encontrar un programador dispuesto a hacerlo.  El
>
> maestro podría seleccionar al programador sin restringir la búsqueda a
>
> aquellos dispuestos a trabajar como voluntarios sin paga bajo las reglas de
>
> SugarLabs.
>
> En esta forma,  los educadores,  los únicos expertos en educación,  serían
>
> los jueces para decidir que aplicaciones tienen valor educativo.
>
> Carlos Rabassa
>
> Volunteer
>
> Plan Ceibal Support Network
>
> Montevideo, Uruguay
>
> www.tiny.cc/AprendoILearn
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Walter Bender
>
> Sugar Labs
>
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> _______________________________________________
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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>
>

regards.

-walter

-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org