[IAEP] FW: [OLPC Bolivia] No logro aprender Sugar / I cannot learn Sugar why would YOU want to?

[Chris Leonard]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Kenneth Wyrick <kmw at caltek.net> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Since this seems to be something you have sincere passion about, would you
> be willing to simply list/summarize specific points that you see that
> Carlos made so we can talk about them point by point to hopefully arrive
> at a more succinct overall intention of his communication?


Kenneth,

I do have a passion for Sugar / OLPC and perhaps that is why I
identify with the passion that I see in Carlos' message.  I would
reprise my comment that the discussion is best carried out *with*
Carlos and in Spanish on the lists he posted his message, but I will
give it a shot.  However, I will say that I cannot really speak to
Carlos concerns, that conversation should happen with Carlos.  I
intersperse my comments with his paragraphs below (prepending mine
with "cjl").

Quoting from the English translation at
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1yBr2G7FF5Jr46ixt_THm1xQh08cyNJXx8KUy-WDZ1Xs

First let's  acknowledge this as a potentially misleading starting
point as tone can easily be mangled by Google Translate.

"I work since 1983,  using computers as an important tool to earn a
living.  While working, I had to learn DOS, Windows and Macintosh.  I
also learned Open Office, Google Docs and Etoys after retiring from
work."

     cjl - It is clear to me from this that Carlos has a lifetime of
expectations formed by the systems that he grew up using.  It is a
psychological phenomena that "violation of expectations" leads to
strong reactions.  I've worked as programmer on and off since the late
'70's.  Yes, I've booted computers from cassette tape, been paid to
program on IBM  punch cards, have used Wang 8 inch floppies and know
what a read-write ring looks like and does.  I know where he is coming
from.

"I just cannot learn Sugar.  I ask for help when I find problems I
cannot resolve but I don´t seem to get answers that make any sense."

     cjl - In this I read frustration at the comnunications channels,
I can sympathize with this sentiment and imagine it must be amplified
for a native Spanish speaker.  In my opinion this is the crux of the
message that deserves further exploration of the exact issues and
engagement with a positive tone to seek improvements and where
possible remedies for the problems that plague Carlos and other users.
 This is the feedback we've been asking for, it is up to us to take
him seriously (as he should be) and draw him out on the details.
Sorry, it isn't filed in a bug-tracker with a patch, it will require a
conversation.

"From what I hear at meetings, both in Uruguay and overseas, and from
what I read in lists,  I can assure I am not the only one having this
problem."

     cjl - No question he is right about this.  In fact the lack of
feedback from deployments is often bemoaned on the IAEP list.  It is
just a little amusing and slightly sad that when such feedback comes
(however poorly framed), the first response is to reject it,

"I beg you excuse my ignorance.  If some ignorant like me doesn´t
speak clearly,  we will continue to waste our time for ever as well as
waste the precious time of children and adolescents and trying to
convince teachers they don´t know how to teach."

"If you are ashamed of confessing you don´t know,  continuing in
ignorance is more of a shame."

     cjl - Here Carlos admits his own shortcomings (we all have them)
and asks for enlightnement.  This to me is a sign of intelligence,
admitting one's own limitations.

"I said I learned to work with quite diverse computers and operating
systems and I just cannot get to learn Sugar.  Let´s try to find then,
 what does Sugar have different from DOS, Windows, Macintosh, Open
Office, Google Docs and Etoys."

     cjl - see earlier comment about "violation of expectations".

"A characteristic common to all the systems I was able to learn and
use with positive results is they work well.  They work well for
common people like myself and for most people who need to know the
basicas to be able to work,  adapting those programs to the specific
problems of our jobs or further study.  That basic training,  enables
us to face the challenges the real world presents to all who work
and/or study."

     cjl - Here, I suspect that Carlos is confusing the Sugar Learning
environment with the workplace tools he is familiar with.  This is
understandable, this confusion with the goals of Sugar exists widely
and can be hard to overcome.  Apparently OLPC has lost deployment
opportunities because an XO cannot be used to provide vocational
training in Microsoft Office.  Int4erestingly, even the smallest steps
to allow Windows to run on an XO by tweaking the open firmware
produced vehement reactions within the community.

     cjl - To paraphrase the Haggadah (the Jewish service for the
Passover meal) it is incumbent on us to ask and answer the question:
"Why is this OS different from all other OSes?"

"In a few words,  my opinion is Sugar does not work.  Those who think
otherwise,  should just follow the messages in the mail lists,
preferrably those in Spanish,  the language of Uruguay and several
other countries, or become a volunteer and live with the problems."

     cjl - A not unjustified call for listening closely to the
feedback that is given (mostly in Spanish) and to live with real-world
deployment issues.  Again  I see this as a clarion call for more
engagement.

"Why doesn´t it work?"

"I will offer my best ignorant´s opinion.  Anyone with an answer
closer to the truth,  please explain it to us so we continue living in
armony and progressing for everybody´s benefit."

"I will explain,  using an imaginary example,  my opinion on why Sugar
doesn´t even get close to the reliability and usefullness level of the
other systems we mentioned."

     cjl - I have to give him some points on the reliability concern,
I would have to ask the question of "usefulness" by asking "usefulness
for what purpose", back to the learning tool versus workplace tool
issue.

"Let´s think of Apple,  currently the most successful company in the
business,  at world level.  It acquired its good reputation offering
devices that work well since we open the box and programs that most of
us can learn how to use with good results within a short time."

     cjl - Regardless of your feelings about Apple, this is not an
inaccurate description of some elements that have contributed to their
success.  Let's please accept that responding to this by getting into
discussions about Apple would be a distraction, so let's avoid doing
that.

"Let´s imagine now that Apple directors decide to save money by firing
all the great programmers they employ,  dedicated to write their
operating systems.  Let´s imagine they decide that a group of
volunteers,  worldwide, with a horizontal organization without chiefs,
 is the latest model in modern business management.  What would
happen?  How much longer would Apple survive?  Days?  Hours?

I am neither complaining, nor criticizing the past or the present."

    cjl - Well, this is a bit of rehashing OLPC's decision-making
around supporting Sugar that lead to the spin out of Sugar Labs back
in May 2008.  I really, really don't want to re-litigate that, it is
water long under the bridge.  Those of us who were around at that time
remember it as a time of high passions and recriminations, some were
even moved to express themselves in outrageous forms
(http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Cjl/Random_musings) just to
exorcise those demons and move forward with the important work at
hand.

"Thanks to Sugar and to many other organizations and persons,  Plan
Ceibal started,  it accomplished tremendous progress and it is where
it is today.  Let´s congratulate all those who helped bring it to this
point,  from those who made the big decisions,  to OLPC and each and
all teachers, students, relatives and volunteers."

    cjl - An acknowledgement that OLPC and Sugar have changed the
nature of the discourse around ICT and learning.

"Wouldn´t this be the time to recognize Sugar is what is currently
preventing us to move ahead,  and to dedicate all our tremendous
collective intelligence and energy to continue moving ahead?  Anyone
may trip on a roadblock.  We have to get up and continue on our way.
We cannot let a program that has problems stop everything."

     cjl - Sounds like a call to "throw the baby out with the
bathwater", I can't say I agree with this conclusion, but Carlos is
certainly not the first to make this point.  This is an opportunity to
engage Carlos in a discussion about the core principles behind Sugar
and to examine our own efforts to see how we may be falling short of
achieving those principles.

"I am happy to see Plan Ceibal is not sleeping and every day is
introducing or considering very interesting ideas.  I see Portal
Ceibal shows information on Khan Academy and Sugata Mitra,  among
other education ideas that are calling the attention of many people
around the world today."

    cjl - Here Carlos is suggesting that Sugar and an XO laptop alone
are not the solution to all problems, a conclusion I heartily agree
with.  It fails to acknowledge what Sugar and XOs make possible, but I
will not quibble there, I will join him in celebrating the ingenuity
of local deployments and even children in appropriating the tools they
have adopted and reworking them to meet their own needs and desires.
At this point I am tempted to shout "Hallelujah" or less aptly
"Mission Accomplished".  The appropriation of the tools and technology
by local communities is the end-game we all seek (I think).

    cjl - What this leaves out is the sincere desire of Sugar Labs to
gather that creative energy back from the deployments and share it
with other deployments around the world.  Let's be honest in admitting
we just don't do this well enough (yet).  I myself would like to see
OLE Nepal's materials translated into English and hosted on Pootle for
anyone to localize into their language of choice (just as an example).
 This returns us to the need for deeper and more meaningful engagement
to harvest both the good and the bad from deployments.

     cjl - Kenneth, that is how I read Carlos's message.  It may not
be what he really meant to say and he may not like how I characterize
some of his points, but this is just my opinion, which you *did* ask
for,  You just didn't realize that I would actually give it to you :-)

cjl