[IAEP] [support-gang] FW: [OLPC Bolivia] No logro aprender Sugar / I cannot learn Sugar

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Mikus Grinbergs <mikus at bga.com> wrote:
>> I Am talking about the problem about the incompatibility between the
>> Sugarized programs vs the normal linux programs , like the games that
>> the children wants.  There are thousands of programs in Linux that
>> don't uses the "Journal", so there are useless.
>
> This seems to be the common thread between here and earlier posts:
>
>  "I know how to run program ZZZ on a non-Sugar system.  Why can't I
>   (easily/simply) put it on a Sugar system (for a kid who wants it)?"
>
>> I don't have to be Einstein to know that if the same problem continues
>> after more 3 or four years, it is not only  technical problem.
>
> This is true.  My personal comment is that I haven't noticed "to run
> programs like ZZZ" as among the goals of the OLPC.
>
> [I might *want* to marry a particular celebrity - but that doesn't mean that
> that celebrity would have "to marry Mikus" as one of her goals.]
>
> Does it mean the end of the world if the kid can't run ZZZ inside Sugar?
>
> Paolo - if you do not see other people planning to implement a goal of "to
> run programs like ZZZ inside Sugar" - being upset at the existing situation
> does not help - try to figure out where in this situation changes might be
> feasible - then start beating on doors.
>
> mikus

Mikus,

Thanks for your summary. FWIW, I actually think it is important that
Sugar plays well with the non-Sugar world, but it certainly wasn't an
initial priority. There are a number of initiatives underway that will
improve the situation; I mentioned a few in an early post, such as the
ability to access and edit non-Sugar files directly from within the
Sugar UI. Also, many, but not every, Sugar activities will run within
both Sugar and the GNOME desktop.

The eventual transition to GNOME 3.0 and PYGI will make a big
difference in our ability to support more interoperability as well.

All of that said, let me repeat an argument I made regarding the Sugar
Journal during the EduJam summit last month: we developed the Journal
not because we wanted to be incompatible with the rest of the world
but because we wanted to address some pedagogical needs. Specifically,
we want the children to have a place to reflect upon their work. The
Journal is their portfolio. Reflection requires effort and some
developers consider the prompts to write in the Journal as an
annoyance. But when I ask those same developers if they think adding a
commit message to their commits in git, they immediately understand
the value. So some of the annoyance of the Journal is because we have
not completely solved the UI issues (the good news is that Simon has
some patches landing that fix some of these issues) but some of the
annoyance is because we want to make the path of least resistance be
one where the children are prompted to be reflective-- to write in
their "lab notebooks" about what they are doing and why and to make
presentations to their teachers, parents, and fellow students about
their work. (The latter is facilitated by the new Portfolio activity.)

In any case, concrete feedback and criticism is welcome. Thanks.

-walter
>
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-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org