[IAEP] Teacher in Uruguay enchanted to see his ideas integrated, into global Sugar update

[Eben Eliason]

On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Greg Smith <gregsmitholpc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Eben,
>
> There's already a lot of feedback. Start sifting :-) Please post
> anything you aggregate and think we should work on to the 9.1 page:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0

None of us have time to aggregate, if we even find out where we might
pull info from. That's the point I'm getting at.  I want a way to make
this info readily accessible to everyone, without devoting half of my
week to scouring scattered sources.  That could be a full time job.

Also, I'm not sure that aggregating on the 9.1 page is a good
solution. That's a good way for a lot of good feedback to get lost in
6 months.  I'd rather have a mailing list, or forum, or some other
form of database from which we can reference individual responses on
trac tickets, so that the feedback can live on as a reference in a
place we won't lose it.  A mailing list sounds like the easiest
solution, at least short term.

- Eben


> In addition, a feedback activity seems like an easy short term win.
> Could be posted and shared quickly and easily. If it gets traction it
> would help motivate a solution built in the core OS/UI.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
> Eben Eliason wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Greg Smith <gregsmitholpc at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> On this:
>>>  > Perhaps you would be interested in http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6950.
>>>  I
>>>  > > think all these things would go together nicely.
>>>
>>> "Changed 2 months ago by gregorio
>>> milestone deleted Milestone Never Assigned deleted "
>>>
>>> When I started at OLPC one of the first things I did was clean up the
>>> roadmap in Trac. There were a handful of vague "may want to do it in the
>>> future" milestones. I deleted a few of those before I realized that it
>>> would also remove them from the bug IDs. That's why you see these
>>> messages.
>>>
>>> We do need to figure out where to put it on the roadmap and I'm not
>>> opposed to this idea.
>>>
>>> On the subject of gathering input from users its been a recurring theme
>>> of the lists and I have commented on it several times. Its an important
>>> problem which we must grapple with. Initially I thought "we need more
>>> input and information". Then in December I started to realize how much
>>> input is already available. I collected some of them on my talk page at:
>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User_talk:Gregorio
>>>
>>> There are wikis, forums, moodles and other sites already full of
>>> suggestions and comments about the product. Aside from the ones on my
>>> talk page I can mention
>>> - Moodle out of Peru: http://www.innovavirtual.org/moodleperu/
>>> - Forum in Uruguay http://www.mediagala.com/rap/foro/
>>> - Our OLPC forum http://en.forum.laptop.org/
>>> and of course the olpc-sur list.
>>
>> This is fantastic; was I among few who didn't know of their existence?
>>  I might be, but we could probably do a better job exposing this kind
>> of information.
>>
>>> Also I understand that kids in Uruguay and elsewhere have been
>>> downloading this activity: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XoIRC and it has a
>>> default channel which has been very active. There is also a spanish IRC
>>> channel which has seen a lot of use.
>>>
>>> Even the question of which is the right tool to gather more suggestions
>>> is something we should ask people to suggest! If you want people to give
>>> input, its better to ask them what works best for them than to decide
>>> that yourself. I have been mulling over the best communication channels
>>> with Pablo out of Uruguay for 9 moths and we still don't have a
>>> definitive answer.
>>>
>>> For me, the question is not so much how do we gather more input as how
>>> do we respond to the input already expressed.
>>
>> I think this misses a very crucial element, which is
>> locating/aggregating the data.  If there's no channel through which
>> the data can be collected, searched, or organized, we have little hope
>> of responding to it.  The main reason I think that something in the
>> realm of a "Suggestion Box" activity is needed is not *only* so that
>> kids and teachers have a place to express their thoughts, but just as
>> much so that their efforts can be collected and reviewed by all who
>> are interested, in a common place. (Which, in turn, should ensure that
>> their thoughts are more likely to effect change.)
>>
>>> The requests do not generally come in like: I want a button on the
>>> right. The people using the XO are teaching or learning so the request
>>> is usually more like: its too slow make it faster or I need better tools
>>> to teach geometry. See the Sur list for some comments like  that.
>>
>> This is true, of course.  It could lead to a lot of feedback, much of
>> it not succinct or strictly targeted, but at least we'd have it in a
>> place where all can find it.  If our biggest problem is sifting
>> through *too much* feedback, then we're in good shape.  Let's find a
>> way to put it all to good use!
>>
>> - Eben
>>
>>> After an intial suggestions, you need a further discussion befoe it gets
>>> to exactly what code needs to be written. In terms of how we engage that
>>> dialog, I wrote a brief explanation of how I think it should work at:
>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Gregorio
>>>
>>> We're now engaged in the practice of it and we need that piece along
>>> with the theory to get it right.
>>>
>>> In terms of building in a "please fix it" button, I'm in favor of that.
>>> I think it should be an activity not a piece of the OS until we can
>>> prove the concept and show that we can collect good feedback, generate a
>>> meanigful dialog and most importantly respond in a constructive way to
>>> the requests.
>>>
>>> Lastly, if a user has asked for something which is documented and well
>>> defined and we think it should be built then go ahead and put it on the
>>> 9.1 page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0 I just ask that you sign it or
>>> put it on the talk page.
>>>
>>> To Christoph's original point. They already asked, now we need to
>>> deliver on that. How about starting with this one:
>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Touchpad
>>> or this one:
>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0#Longer_Battery_Life
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I hope that's constructive. I want to see more feedback and more
>>> responsiveness to requests. My main point is that the ball is in our
>>> court. Once we find people to engage with the only way to get there is
>>> with a rich dialog where we learn about the users and they learn about
>>> building software.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Greg S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>
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