[IAEP] is this useful feedback?

[Walter Bender]

I link to Andrew's course in the Overview chapter of the Extending
Sugar section of the FLOSS manual for Sugar
(http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/Overview). Please feel free to add
other suggested resources to the ones already there and to add some
feedback, e.g., good for beginners/experts, etc.

# The Byte of Python (www.swaroopch.com/notes/Python)
# How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python, 2nd
edition (openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python2e.php)
# Python for Fun (www.openbookproject.net/py4fun/)
# Python Bibliotheca (www.openbookproject.net/pybiblio/)
# Dive into Python (diveintopython.org/)
# Hands-on Python Tutorial (http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh/python/hands-on/)

-walter

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:12 PM, David Farning <dfarning at sugarlabs.org> wrote:
> A few week ago I got a change to talk to Andrew Harrington of python fame.  He has developed an interesting introductory computer course[1] that would be interesting to modify for use as intro to sugar course.
> david
>
> 1. http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh/python/hands-on/
>
> On  10/13/2008, 17:50, Bill Kerr (billkerr at gmail.com) wrote:On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Bill Kerr  wrote:
>  On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>  On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Bill Kerr  wrote:
>  > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso  wrote:
>  >>
>  >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Bill Kerr  wrote:
>  >> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI
>  >> >
>  >> > is this useful feedback?
>  >>
>  >> I think it's useful in itself, but there needs to happen quite a bit
>  >> of work before it can be consumed by developers. I guess someone that
>  >> knows the context in which those comments are made could translate
>  >> them to more universally understandable statements, and then someone
>  >> else could aggregate those with other feedback and produce some
>  >> summary from all of that.
>  >>
>  >> > flux, year 10 student australia, has been slack in recording his
>  >> > criticisms
>  >> > (tends to mouth off with a negative but informed tone) but I sat with
>  >> > him
>  >> > and wrote them down myself, insisting on a bit more detail - he's one of
>  >> > two
>  >> > students in the class who knows some linux (more than me) - he felt the
>  >> > xo
>  >> > was lacking compared with other linux distributions
>  >> >
>  >> > XO DISLIKES
>  >> >
>  >> > Slow to load initially
>  >> > Loading (splash) screen for each activity is sad, dull, not worth it
>  >> > Games done cheaply compared with GNOME and KDE games
>  >> > mouse pointer is too big
>  >> > wants ability to replace XO icon with different icons
>  >> > wants ability to create a new background
>  >> > want fluxbox, a better GUI
>  >> >
>  >> > btw I have asked the class to try to put themselves, at least some of
>  >> > the
>  >> > time, into the shoes of a 6-10 yo child from the developing world when
>  >> > providing feedback - but have also said that I want to hear  negatives
>  >> > as
>  >> > well as positives
>  >>
>  >> I'm not sure that's the best POV for useful feedback. I cannot think
>  >> myself of any features of Sugar that are specially targeted to people
>  >> in developing countries and I for one would like to see Sugar evolve
>  >> in an useful platform for all people independently of their age.
>  >>
>  >> If kids are complaining so much about the Sugar Shell means that they
>  >> are "seeing" it too much. Most of the important stuff should happen
>  >> inside activities, not in the Shell. My reaction to that feedback is
>  >> that Sugar should dissolve itself better into the set of installed
>  >> activities (by improving performance, for example) and that activities
>  >> should address better the kids' interests (so they don't need to
>  >> change the shell icons to get some fun).
>  >>
>  >> > (note the final para from death-god, he's not able to think outside the
>  >> > MS
>  >> > paradigm at this point - I plan to do some more talking about these
>  >> > issues
>  >> > next term)
>  >> >
>  >> > one memory that this triggered in me was mark shuttleworths ubuntu
>  >> > manifesto:
>  >> >
>  >> > http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/06/mark-shuttleworths-ubuntu-manifesto.html
>  >> > #13 "pretty" as a feature
>  >>
>  >> My suspect is that conventional desktops have a big dissonance with
>  >> non-office usage, so people spend more time that they would like to in
>  >> the "OS". Because of that, the desktop GUI is important for them and
>  >> they want it to be pretty. If we reduced the components that the user
>  >> needs to interact with, those eliminated components don't need to be
>  >> pretty any more. If we reduce the time that the user needs to spend on
>  >> the rest of the desktop, the importance of their "beauty" is also
>  >> reduced.
>  >>
>  >> Not saying that Mark is wrong nor that Sugar should be ugly, just that
>  >> when we hear that some part of the Sugar shell needs to look nicer or
>  >> be more like traditional desktops, we may want to reflect why is the
>  >> shell taking so much of the user attention and if this isn't an
>  >> opportunity to streamline the experience and take ourselves out of the
>  >> way.
>  >
>  > thanks for comment, Tomeu. I've put it up on the wiki and will attempt to
>  > discuss these issues with the students when we go back to school tomorrow.
>  > (we will have to get our minds back out of holiday mode first, however)
>  > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI
>  >
>  > one thing I have noticed with students who use linux (only a handful at my
>  > school) is that they like the ubuntu rotating cube, they see that as new and
>  > "cool"
>  >
>  > My own thoughts are more in line with what you are saying, that the OS, if
>  > we must have one, ought to be just a way to access the activities, that
>  > pretty is not important. But I do suspect strongly that to attract many
>  > users (who are used to Windows) it is important and that part of the success
>  > of ubuntu is that MarkShuttleworth has picked up on that.
>
>  Agreed, we don't want to sell an OS, but may be forced into that...
>
>  No idea about what we can do there, other than hiring Apple's
>  marketing department :p
>
> I like walter's suggestions on this page:
> http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar
>
> tweaking the interface as an option - for both empowerment and skill building
>
> I'll give it a go but fear that most students won't have the patience or carefulness to hack the python code successfully, a few will give it a shot but many will be easily discouraged
>  (trying to think of a way to make it a bit more accessible to more)
>
>
> actually on a closer look walter's modifying sugar tutorial does provide quite a few low level entry points into -
> hacking
> SVG
> python
> linux
>
> that's a lot of pluses
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org