[IAEP] [Fwd: Re: Sugar on Debian]

[David Farning]

Here are some useful thoughts on how Jonas Smedgaard, the debian
packager, perceives the workflow between Sugar Labs and distributions.

dfarning 

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk>
> Reply-To: dr at jones.dk
> To: David Farning <dfarning at sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: Sugar on Debian
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:17:00 +0200
> 
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> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:41:25PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
> >It make sense to think of our 'product' flowing from sugar Labs to 
> >Debian/Fedora/OLPC to be packaged.  Then, it flows to the user 
> >distributions.
> 
> I was talking more specifically about (my view on) the relation between 
> Debian and Debian Edu (a.k.a. Skolelinux).
> 
> I use Debian, and see it as "user distribution".  As I see it, Debian 
> Edu is not more towards users, but more towards _specific_ users.  Thety 
> have a narrower target audience.  As does Ubuntu.  But then again, 
> Ubuntu wants to _both_ be narrow and reach all, so they produce Kubuntu, 
> Edubuntu, Xubuntu and more...
> 
> Free software is about choice.
> 
> Each piece of software has full choice - can invent its own terms.
> 
> One of the tasks of old-fashioned distributions like Debian and 
> Redhat/Fedora is to _unify_ and _structure_ choices of software 
> developers, so that they can work together as a whole without collision.
> 
> One of the goals of what I would call "derivative distributions" is to 
> _simplify_ or even _limit_ choice for a narrower target group.
> 
> Ubuntu is a Debian derivative.
> 
> Debian Edu started out as a derivative, but is working actively towards 
> getting absorbed back into Debian.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally about software flow, I see it as this:
> 
> Development:
> 
>   * Sugarlabs develops software
>   * Sugarlabs develops .xo packaging format
>   * Debian and Fedora develops .deb and .rpm packaging formats
> 
> Packaging:
> 
>   * Sugarlabs packages Sugar as .xo
>   * Debian and Ubuntu packages Sugar as .deb
>   * OLPC stores Fedora backend+Sugar as custom filesystem dumps
>   * LiveBackup stores Fedora backend+Sugar as ISO w/ custom bootloader
> 
> Distribution:
> 
>   * OLPC distributes custom filesystem dumps
>   * OLPC distributes .xo packages
>   * OLPC distributes LiveBackup ISOs
>   * Debian, Debian Edu and Ubuntu distributes backend+Sucrose as .deb
> 
> 
> 
> >I will try to be more aware of these differences in my writing. 
> >
> >> Feel free to tell me more about your work on "tracking us down" - throw 
> >> questions at me, I might have some of the answers :-)
> >
> >Would you mind making sure the information on installing Sugar at
> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Debian is correct
> >and up to date.
> 
> Hmm - how do you define "correct" in this context?
> 
> As I see it, there is not one single "correct" way of installing Sugar 
> with Debian.  Debian is an extremely flexible distribution.
> 
> One possible approach is to install Debian on a machine with "head" (You 
> can install Debian on a "headless" machine without screen or keyboard), 
> and then - as it says on above wiki page - do "aptitude install sugar".
> 
> But you could also (in theory at least, I haven't tested all possible 
> combinations) install parts of Sugar on different machines, working 
> together through network connection (either all sugar parts on one 
> machine and X11 server parts on another, or maybe run visual parts on 
> one machine and DBus backend parts on another - and perhaps storage 
> through NFS on a third.
> 
> You could generate a LiveCD (like LiveBackup but based on Debian, not 
> Fedora).  Or you could (like I did last year with some other software) 
> write a small custom shell script to squeeze a fullblown live-updateable 
> Debian installation onto a USB memory stick to boot off of various 
> USB-supported hardware.  Or you could setup a one-click web installer 
> like they did at http://goodbye-windows.com/
> 
> 
> All in all, I suggest leave that limited instruction as is now, and just 
> add a reference to http://wiki.debian.org/Sugar for the adventurous.
> 
> I don't think it makes sense to duplicate those two wiki pages.
> 
> 
> >The information on developing Sugar on Debian is at
> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild/Debian .
> 
> Yes, I am aware of that page.  But it is unrelated to my work, however: 
> I build .deb packages from tarballs (or Git-based snapshot tarballs).
> 
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
>   - Jonas
> 
> - -- 
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> 
>   - Enden er nær: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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