[IAEP] [Fwd: Re: Sugar on Debian]
dfarning at sugarlabs.org
Wed Jul 16 22:04:27 CEST 2008
Here are some useful thoughts on how Jonas Smedgaard, the debian
packager, perceives the workflow between Sugar Labs and distributions.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Jonas Smedegaard <dr at jones.dk>
> Reply-To: dr at jones.dk
> To: David Farning <dfarning at sugarlabs.org>
> Subject: Re: Sugar on Debian
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:17:00 +0200
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> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:41:25PM -0500, David Farning wrote:
> >It make sense to think of our 'product' flowing from sugar Labs to
> >Debian/Fedora/OLPC to be packaged. Then, it flows to the user
> I was talking more specifically about (my view on) the relation between
> Debian and Debian Edu (a.k.a. Skolelinux).
> I use Debian, and see it as "user distribution". As I see it, Debian
> Edu is not more towards users, but more towards _specific_ users. Thety
> have a narrower target audience. As does Ubuntu. But then again,
> Ubuntu wants to _both_ be narrow and reach all, so they produce Kubuntu,
> Edubuntu, Xubuntu and more...
> Free software is about choice.
> Each piece of software has full choice - can invent its own terms.
> One of the tasks of old-fashioned distributions like Debian and
> Redhat/Fedora is to _unify_ and _structure_ choices of software
> developers, so that they can work together as a whole without collision.
> One of the goals of what I would call "derivative distributions" is to
> _simplify_ or even _limit_ choice for a narrower target group.
> Ubuntu is a Debian derivative.
> Debian Edu started out as a derivative, but is working actively towards
> getting absorbed back into Debian.
> Generally about software flow, I see it as this:
> * Sugarlabs develops software
> * Sugarlabs develops .xo packaging format
> * Debian and Fedora develops .deb and .rpm packaging formats
> * Sugarlabs packages Sugar as .xo
> * Debian and Ubuntu packages Sugar as .deb
> * OLPC stores Fedora backend+Sugar as custom filesystem dumps
> * LiveBackup stores Fedora backend+Sugar as ISO w/ custom bootloader
> * OLPC distributes custom filesystem dumps
> * OLPC distributes .xo packages
> * OLPC distributes LiveBackup ISOs
> * Debian, Debian Edu and Ubuntu distributes backend+Sucrose as .deb
> >I will try to be more aware of these differences in my writing.
> >> Feel free to tell me more about your work on "tracking us down" - throw
> >> questions at me, I might have some of the answers :-)
> >Would you mind making sure the information on installing Sugar at
> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Debian is correct
> >and up to date.
> Hmm - how do you define "correct" in this context?
> As I see it, there is not one single "correct" way of installing Sugar
> with Debian. Debian is an extremely flexible distribution.
> One possible approach is to install Debian on a machine with "head" (You
> can install Debian on a "headless" machine without screen or keyboard),
> and then - as it says on above wiki page - do "aptitude install sugar".
> But you could also (in theory at least, I haven't tested all possible
> combinations) install parts of Sugar on different machines, working
> together through network connection (either all sugar parts on one
> machine and X11 server parts on another, or maybe run visual parts on
> one machine and DBus backend parts on another - and perhaps storage
> through NFS on a third.
> You could generate a LiveCD (like LiveBackup but based on Debian, not
> Fedora). Or you could (like I did last year with some other software)
> write a small custom shell script to squeeze a fullblown live-updateable
> Debian installation onto a USB memory stick to boot off of various
> USB-supported hardware. Or you could setup a one-click web installer
> like they did at http://goodbye-windows.com/
> All in all, I suggest leave that limited instruction as is now, and just
> add a reference to http://wiki.debian.org/Sugar for the adventurous.
> I don't think it makes sense to duplicate those two wiki pages.
> >The information on developing Sugar on Debian is at
> >http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild/Debian .
> Yes, I am aware of that page. But it is unrelated to my work, however:
> I build .deb packages from tarballs (or Git-based snapshot tarballs).
> Kind regards,
> - Jonas
> - --
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> - Enden er nær: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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