[IAEP] Working math graphs/plots

[Carol Farlow Lerche]

I have seen a "?" button, meaning click the question mark and then click
anything else in the GUI to get a brief explanation.  It would allow someone
to ask about a particular widget without waiting.  It could also offer a
"tour of the activity" video. But maybe that would be offered better on the
icon used to launch the activity.  I find these sorts of videos to be
extremely helpful, as they are like looking over the shoulder of an
experienced user.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Gary C Martin <gary at garycmartin.com> wrote:

> On 13 Dec 2008, at 01:53, Edward Cherlin wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Gary C Martin
> > <gary at garycmartin.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11 Dec 2008, at 00:24, Edward Cherlin wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Reinier Heeres
> >>> <reinier at heeres.eu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree that the plotting functionality is not really well exposed,
> >>>> although help(index) will show you it's available and help(plot)
> >>>> will
> >>>> tell you how to use it. Try plot(sin(x),x=0..360) for example.
> >>>> I'll work
> >>>> on the exposure of plotting in the next release; suggestions on
> >>>> how to
> >>>> do this exactly would be welcome.
> >>>
> >>> Just exposing help would go a long way to solving the problem.
> >>
> >> Help is already exposed in the hover menu for each toolbar icon. Not
> >> discoverable enough?
> >
> > Absolutely not enough. I have to wait for the menu to expand _twice_.
> > How was I supposed to discover that?
>
> You could always read the Calculate wiki page, that's where I first
> read about the plot feature ~11 months or so ago. In the perfect
> world, every feature you needed at any moment would be clearly
> represented in the UI. Different individuals use software in different
> ways, it's always very hard to get this right (and it's _never_
> perfect).
>
> >> Seems Reinier' s Calculate has much more effort/detail
> >> put in than any other activity so far.
> >
> > That doesn't mean that he got it right. I really, really hate delayed
> > hover menus, and I hate doubly-delayed hover menus many times more.
>
> Being cheeky here... so right click and move on with life :-p (and, as
> a Mac user, you have no idea how much it pained me when I first saw
> the project was going for 2 mouse button use).
>
> Sometimes I like the whole concept of hover menus, sometimes I think
> they sucks. The idea is certainly going to have to be reworked (along
> with a large chunk of the existing UI) if we get Sugar to a gen 2
> touch interface.
>
> > First, because they are inherently not discoverable, and secondly,
> > because you are wasting my time, and every other user's time. I reject
> > the argument that we are trying to teach children to click icons
> > directly, and note that it doesn't even apply in the case of help.
>
> For me, I always consider the need for help text (and manuals) to be a
> level of failure in design. Help texts are a large burden on everyone
> (quality, translation, UI space, updates, accuracy), but often are the
> cheapest first pass when you realise some feature not discoverable
> enough.
>
> Any concrete UI suggestions for calculate features (or activities** in
> general) to be more discoverable for you? You're not allowed to add
> this as another potential FLOSS book TODO ;-) Well OK, I guess that
> might be a workaround if there's no better UI effort (and teachers
> like static books, right?).
>
> ** my latest casual discovery was that Write has customised its keep
> toolbar icon, so if you hover you can choose to keep a copy as RTF,
> HTML, or plain text. Well hidden, but this could be extended to 'keep'
> to all kind's of interesting places (i.e. push to a Moodle server, an
> outbound email, web site upload). Hopefully some Journal 'sharing'
> feature will be a generic solution for any activity.
>
> --Gary
>
> > My general principle of UI design is, never, ever try to be smarter
> > than your user. Not even if you are. Now that I know that help is on
> > the menus on double delay, I will almost never use it that way,
> > because typing is faster, but I will resent it every time I have to
> > type it, because the menu could be faster.
> >> --Gary
> >>
> >>>> The implementation is as basic as it can get: it evaluates an
> >>>> expression
> >>>> at 100 points between the start and stop range. The internal
> >>>> parser is a
> >>>> bit slow, but it's pure python and works reasonably well.
> >>>>
> >>>> With a bit of coding we could surely add some functionality to
> >>>> get data
> >>>> from Measure in there too.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am not inclined to add RPN parsing myself, but patches will of
> >>>> course
> >>>> be considered.
> >>>
> >>> Would you look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/calcrpnpy/ and
> >>> tell
> >>> me what you need done to it?
> >>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Reinier
> >>>>
> >>>> Edward Cherlin wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Gary C Martin <
> gary at garycmartin.com
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 18:41, Walter Bender wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I haven't looked at it in a while, but what plotting engine is
> >>>>>>> built
> >>>>>>> inside of the Calculator Activity?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -walter
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think Reinier wrote his own little svg plot generator class
> >>>>>> called
> >>>>>> plotlib.py.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --Gary
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I didn't know about the plotting capability, which will have
> >>>>> endless
> >>>>> uses. It is certainly not discoverable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can we feed a segment of a data stream from Measure to Calculate
> >>>>> as a
> >>>>> named function?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why don't we put something like plot(f(x),x=min..max) on the
> >>>>> toolbar?
> >>>>> Can we provide hints about the functions and syntax anywhere in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> UI? Is there a way to recall and edit an input line? Are there
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> functions not exposed in the UI?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have a fairly old book called Numerical Analysis on the Pocket
> >>>>> Calculator, which explains how to do all sorts of things that you
> >>>>> might not expect on even the simplest 4- and 5-function devices,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> works on up through the sort of algebraic calculator we have
> >>>>> here to
> >>>>> the programmable calculator. Our users will need something like
> >>>>> this,
> >>>>> to take maximum advantage of the seemingly limited capabilities
> >>>>> we are
> >>>>> offering them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And can we have an RPN mode? I can't tell you how much most real
> >>>>> engineers hate parentheses. We are not doing children any favors
> >>>>> by
> >>>>> hiding the more advanced tools.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Reinier Heeres
> >>>> Waalstraat 17
> >>>> 2515 XK Den Haag
> >>>> The Netherlands
> >>>>
> >>>> Tel: +31 6 10852639
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>> دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> >>> And Children are my nation.
> >>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/
> > دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> > And Children are my nation.
> > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai
>
> _______________________________________________
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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>



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"Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our
future depends on it."  -- Barack Obama
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