I have seen a "?" button, meaning click the question mark and then click anything else in the GUI to get a brief explanation. It would allow someone to ask about a particular widget without waiting. It could also offer a "tour of the activity" video. But maybe that would be offered better on the icon used to launch the activity. I find these sorts of videos to be extremely helpful, as they are like looking over the shoulder of an experienced user. <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Gary C Martin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gary@garycmartin.com">gary@garycmartin.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">On 13 Dec 2008, at 01:53, Edward Cherlin wrote:<br>
<br>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Gary C Martin<br>
> <<a href="mailto:gary@garycmartin.com">gary@garycmartin.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On 11 Dec 2008, at 00:24, Edward Cherlin wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Reinier Heeres<br>
>>> <reinier@heeres.eu> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I agree that the plotting functionality is not really well exposed,<br>
>>>> although help(index) will show you it's available and help(plot)<br>
>>>> will<br>
>>>> tell you how to use it. Try plot(sin(x),x=0..360) for example.<br>
>>>> I'll work<br>
>>>> on the exposure of plotting in the next release; suggestions on<br>
>>>> how to<br>
>>>> do this exactly would be welcome.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Just exposing help would go a long way to solving the problem.<br>
>><br>
>> Help is already exposed in the hover menu for each toolbar icon. Not<br>
>> discoverable enough?<br>
><br>
> Absolutely not enough. I have to wait for the menu to expand _twice_.<br>
> How was I supposed to discover that?<br>
<br>
</div>You could always read the Calculate wiki page, that's where I first<br>
read about the plot feature ~11 months or so ago. In the perfect<br>
world, every feature you needed at any moment would be clearly<br>
represented in the UI. Different individuals use software in different<br>
ways, it's always very hard to get this right (and it's _never_<br>
perfect).<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
>> Seems Reinier' s Calculate has much more effort/detail<br>
>> put in than any other activity so far.<br>
><br>
> That doesn't mean that he got it right. I really, really hate delayed<br>
> hover menus, and I hate doubly-delayed hover menus many times more.<br>
<br>
</div>Being cheeky here... so right click and move on with life :-p (and, as<br>
a Mac user, you have no idea how much it pained me when I first saw<br>
the project was going for 2 mouse button use).<br>
<br>
Sometimes I like the whole concept of hover menus, sometimes I think<br>
they sucks. The idea is certainly going to have to be reworked (along<br>
with a large chunk of the existing UI) if we get Sugar to a gen 2<br>
touch interface.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
> First, because they are inherently not discoverable, and secondly,<br>
> because you are wasting my time, and every other user's time. I reject<br>
> the argument that we are trying to teach children to click icons<br>
> directly, and note that it doesn't even apply in the case of help.<br>
<br>
</div>For me, I always consider the need for help text (and manuals) to be a<br>
level of failure in design. Help texts are a large burden on everyone<br>
(quality, translation, UI space, updates, accuracy), but often are the<br>
cheapest first pass when you realise some feature not discoverable<br>
enough.<br>
<br>
Any concrete UI suggestions for calculate features (or activities** in<br>
general) to be more discoverable for you? You're not allowed to add<br>
this as another potential FLOSS book TODO ;-) Well OK, I guess that<br>
might be a workaround if there's no better UI effort (and teachers<br>
like static books, right?).<br>
<br>
** my latest casual discovery was that Write has customised its keep<br>
toolbar icon, so if you hover you can choose to keep a copy as RTF,<br>
HTML, or plain text. Well hidden, but this could be extended to 'keep'<br>
to all kind's of interesting places (i.e. push to a Moodle server, an<br>
outbound email, web site upload). Hopefully some Journal 'sharing'<br>
feature will be a generic solution for any activity.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--Gary<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
> My general principle of UI design is, never, ever try to be smarter<br>
> than your user. Not even if you are. Now that I know that help is on<br>
> the menus on double delay, I will almost never use it that way,<br>
> because typing is faster, but I will resent it every time I have to<br>
> type it, because the menu could be faster.<br>
>> --Gary<br>
>><br>
>>>> The implementation is as basic as it can get: it evaluates an<br>
>>>> expression<br>
>>>> at 100 points between the start and stop range. The internal<br>
>>>> parser is a<br>
>>>> bit slow, but it's pure python and works reasonably well.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> With a bit of coding we could surely add some functionality to<br>
>>>> get data<br>
>>>> from Measure in there too.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I am not inclined to add RPN parsing myself, but patches will of<br>
>>>> course<br>
>>>> be considered.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Would you look at <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/calcrpnpy/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/projects/calcrpnpy/</a> and<br>
>>> tell<br>
>>> me what you need done to it?<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Regards,<br>
>>>> Reinier<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Edward Cherlin wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Gary C Martin <<a href="mailto:gary@garycmartin.com">gary@garycmartin.com</a><br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 18:41, Walter Bender wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> I haven't looked at it in a while, but what plotting engine is<br>
>>>>>>> built<br>
>>>>>>> inside of the Calculator Activity?<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> -walter<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I think Reinier wrote his own little svg plot generator class<br>
>>>>>> called<br>
>>>>>> plotlib.py.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --Gary<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I didn't know about the plotting capability, which will have<br>
>>>>> endless<br>
>>>>> uses. It is certainly not discoverable.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Can we feed a segment of a data stream from Measure to Calculate<br>
>>>>> as a<br>
>>>>> named function?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Why don't we put something like plot(f(x),x=min..max) on the<br>
>>>>> toolbar?<br>
>>>>> Can we provide hints about the functions and syntax anywhere in<br>
>>>>> the<br>
>>>>> UI? Is there a way to recall and edit an input line? Are there<br>
>>>>> other<br>
>>>>> functions not exposed in the UI?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I have a fairly old book called Numerical Analysis on the Pocket<br>
>>>>> Calculator, which explains how to do all sorts of things that you<br>
>>>>> might not expect on even the simplest 4- and 5-function devices,<br>
>>>>> and<br>
>>>>> works on up through the sort of algebraic calculator we have<br>
>>>>> here to<br>
>>>>> the programmable calculator. Our users will need something like<br>
>>>>> this,<br>
>>>>> to take maximum advantage of the seemingly limited capabilities<br>
>>>>> we are<br>
>>>>> offering them.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> And can we have an RPN mode? I can't tell you how much most real<br>
>>>>> engineers hate parentheses. We are not doing children any favors<br>
>>>>> by<br>
>>>>> hiding the more advanced tools.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Reinier Heeres<br>
>>>> Waalstraat 17<br>
>>>> 2515 XK Den Haag<br>
>>>> The Netherlands<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Tel: +31 6 10852639<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Silent Thunder (默雷/<br>
>>> धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/<br>
>>> دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name<br>
>>> And Children are my nation.<br>
>>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.<br>
>>> <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai</a><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/<br>
> دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name<br>
> And Children are my nation.<br>
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.<br>
> <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
<a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it." -- Barack Obama<br>