I have seen a "?" button, meaning click the question mark and then click anything else in the GUI to get a brief explanation.  It would allow someone to ask about a particular widget without waiting.  It could also offer a "tour of the activity" video. But maybe that would be offered better on the icon used to launch the activity.  I find these sorts of videos to be extremely helpful, as they are like looking over the shoulder of an experienced user.  <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Gary C Martin <<a href="mailto:gary@garycmartin.com">gary@garycmartin.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="Ih2E3d">On 13 Dec 2008, at 01:53, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Gary C Martin > <<a href="mailto:gary@garycmartin.com">gary@garycmartin.com</a>> wrote: >> >> On 11 Dec 2008, at 00:24, Edward Cherlin wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Reinier Heeres >>> <reinier@heeres.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I agree that the plotting functionality is not really well exposed, >>>> although help(index) will show you it's available and help(plot) >>>> will >>>> tell you how to use it. Try plot(sin(x),x=0..360) for example. >>>> I'll work >>>> on the exposure of plotting in the next release; suggestions on >>>> how to >>>> do this exactly would be welcome. >>> >>> Just exposing help would go a long way to solving the problem. >> >> Help is already exposed in the hover menu for each toolbar icon. Not >> discoverable enough? > > Absolutely not enough. I have to wait for the menu to expand _twice_. > How was I supposed to discover that? </div>You could always read the Calculate wiki page, that's where I first read about the plot feature ~11 months or so ago. In the perfect world, every feature you needed at any moment would be clearly represented in the UI. Different individuals use software in different ways, it's always very hard to get this right (and it's _never_ perfect). <div class="Ih2E3d"> >> Seems Reinier' s Calculate has much more effort/detail >> put in than any other activity so far. > > That doesn't mean that he got it right. I really, really hate delayed > hover menus, and I hate doubly-delayed hover menus many times more. </div>Being cheeky here... so right click and move on with life :-p (and, as a Mac user, you have no idea how much it pained me when I first saw the project was going for 2 mouse button use). Sometimes I like the whole concept of hover menus, sometimes I think they sucks. The idea is certainly going to have to be reworked (along with a large chunk of the existing UI) if we get Sugar to a gen 2 touch interface. <div class="Ih2E3d"> > First, because they are inherently not discoverable, and secondly, > because you are wasting my time, and every other user's time. I reject > the argument that we are trying to teach children to click icons > directly, and note that it doesn't even apply in the case of help. </div>For me, I always consider the need for help text (and manuals) to be a level of failure in design. Help texts are a large burden on everyone (quality, translation, UI space, updates, accuracy), but often are the cheapest first pass when you realise some feature not discoverable enough. Any concrete UI suggestions for calculate features (or activities** in general) to be more discoverable for you? You're not allowed to add this as another potential FLOSS book TODO ;-) Well OK, I guess that might be a workaround if there's no better UI effort (and teachers like static books, right?). ** my latest casual discovery was that Write has customised its keep toolbar icon, so if you hover you can choose to keep a copy as RTF, HTML, or plain text. Well hidden, but this could be extended to 'keep' to all kind's of interesting places (i.e. push to a Moodle server, an outbound email, web site upload). Hopefully some Journal 'sharing' feature will be a generic solution for any activity. --Gary <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"> > My general principle of UI design is, never, ever try to be smarter > than your user. Not even if you are. Now that I know that help is on > the menus on double delay, I will almost never use it that way, > because typing is faster, but I will resent it every time I have to > type it, because the menu could be faster. >> --Gary >> >>>> The implementation is as basic as it can get: it evaluates an >>>> expression >>>> at 100 points between the start and stop range. The internal >>>> parser is a >>>> bit slow, but it's pure python and works reasonably well. >>>> >>>> With a bit of coding we could surely add some functionality to >>>> get data >>>> from Measure in there too. >>>> >>>> I am not inclined to add RPN parsing myself, but patches will of >>>> course >>>> be considered. >>> >>> Would you look at <a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/calcrpnpy/" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/projects/calcrpnpy/</a> and >>> tell >>> me what you need done to it? >>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Reinier >>>> >>>> Edward Cherlin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Gary C Martin <<a href="mailto:gary@garycmartin.com">gary@garycmartin.com</a> >>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 18:41, Walter Bender wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't looked at it in a while, but what plotting engine is >>>>>>> built >>>>>>> inside of the Calculator Activity? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -walter >>>>>>> >>>>>> I think Reinier wrote his own little svg plot generator class >>>>>> called >>>>>> plotlib.py. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Gary >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I didn't know about the plotting capability, which will have >>>>> endless >>>>> uses. It is certainly not discoverable. >>>>> >>>>> Can we feed a segment of a data stream from Measure to Calculate >>>>> as a >>>>> named function? >>>>> >>>>> Why don't we put something like plot(f(x),x=min..max) on the >>>>> toolbar? >>>>> Can we provide hints about the functions and syntax anywhere in >>>>> the >>>>> UI? Is there a way to recall and edit an input line? Are there >>>>> other >>>>> functions not exposed in the UI? >>>>> >>>>> I have a fairly old book called Numerical Analysis on the Pocket >>>>> Calculator, which explains how to do all sorts of things that you >>>>> might not expect on even the simplest 4- and 5-function devices, >>>>> and >>>>> works on up through the sort of algebraic calculator we have >>>>> here to >>>>> the programmable calculator. Our users will need something like >>>>> this, >>>>> to take maximum advantage of the seemingly limited capabilities >>>>> we are >>>>> offering them. >>>>> >>>>> And can we have an RPN mode? I can't tell you how much most real >>>>> engineers hate parentheses. We are not doing children any favors >>>>> by >>>>> hiding the more advanced tools. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Reinier Heeres >>>> Waalstraat 17 >>>> 2515 XK Den Haag >>>> The Netherlands >>>> >>>> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >>>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Silent Thunder (默雷/ >>> धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ >>> دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name >>> And Children are my nation. >>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. >>> <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai</a> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> >>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a> >> >> > > > > -- > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ > دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > <a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai</a> _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a></div></div></blockquote></div> -- "Don't think for a minute that power concedes. 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