No subject
Sat Aug 30 19:52:57 EDT 2008
equipment, at what time question is a non trivial. But, the planning
complications are hidden as much a possible from the kids.
david
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:06 PM, David Farning <dfarning at sugarlabs.org>
> wrote:
> > This takes us back to the collaboration server discussions from last
> week.
> >
> > Rather than attempting to organizing content it may be preferable to
> improve
> > the tools which help users self organize into communities.
> >
> > Last night I got into a discussion about the value of the Neighborhood
> view
> > with my 2nd grade niece:) She was pretty befuddled as to why she had to
> > chose between belkin_019, linksys_1, meshview_11,.... From her
> perspective
> > it made more sense to click on 'Mrs. Kings class' if she wanted to do her
> > homework, or 'After school fun' if she wanted to talk with her friends.
> >
> > While the idea of APs and mesh networks is important to us as geeks and
> > developers. From a user point of view the idea of virtual communities or
> > rooms seems clearer.
> >
> > Maybe it is my misunderstanding of the nature of a jabber sever. A IRC
> > server is pretty useless until the users can self select into channels.
> >
> > Possibly, the idea of manipulating narratives could be best handled by
> > helping communities develop which can discover, share, and reflect on
> > _their_own_ stories.
> >
> > thanks
> > david
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> We need to add an its.an.education.project alias to this list...
> >>
> >> -walter
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [sugar] Narrative
> >> To: Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>
> >> Cc: Bryan Berry <bryan.berry at gmail.com>, bens at alum.mit.edu, sugar
> >> <sugar at lists.laptop.org>, "its. an. education. project"
> >> <its.an.education.project at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> Each of us seems to have interpreted Michael's note differently, so
> >> perhaps some more clarity of definitions is in order. In any case, my
> >> focus was on the assertion that there are "no excellent way to
> >> manipulate narratives" within Sugar. Excellence is the standard we
> >> should be striving for and I do agree we have a ways to go in terms of
> >> developing tools for "manipulating" "narratives" within Sugar. But it
> >> seems a funny dichotomy: manipulating narratives vs. modes for
> >> discovery.
> >>
> >> When I think about Sugar, I think about its providing a scaffolding
> >> for discovering, expressing, critiquing, and reflecting. Manipulating
> >> narrative seems to cut across all of these area (as does
> >> collaboration). We have a browser--the "discovery" platform du
> >> jour--but also an ebook reader and media player, and various tools for
> >> collecting and inspecting data (e.g, Measure and Distance). In terms
> >> of expression, we have a wide variety of tools, including word
> >> processing, rich media, programming, etc. Tools for critique and
> >> reflection seems the least developed thus far: we have chat and we
> >> have sharing and simple debugging tools, and we have the Journal, but
> >> we don't yet support (natively) much in the way of organizing data to
> >> make an analysis or argument. Is this the role Bryan expects Moodle to
> >> play? If so, I don't really see how. There are beginnings of tools
> >> such as spreadsheets, mindmaps, etc. being "Sugarized". What else
> >> should we add to this list? There is also a powerful presentation
> >> toolkit built into Etoys--is it the lack of PowerPoint that Bryan is
> >> missing?--but it is not very easy to find. Perhaps something more
> >> wiki-like or HTML-based would be better. Having it available off-line
> >> is probably as important as accessing an on-line system, such as is
> >> already available in Moodle and in general on any GNU/Linux (or even
> >> Windows) server. In terms of organizing school itself, Moodle and its
> >> like certainly have an important role to play. Sugar is not intended
> >> to be all things, but part of a learning ecosystem.
> >>
> >> There is certainly a paucity of lesson plans developed around Sugar:
> >> how does one best leverage this collection of tools for learning. And
> >> undoubtedly, a dearth of content readily packaged and categorized. But
> >> I don't see these as fundamental design flaws in Sugar as much as a
> >> place where more effort needs to be invested. Sugar is reaching a
> >> point of maturity where such investments make sense.
> >>
> >> In any case, I'd love to hear Michael's "interesting ideas".
> >>
> >> -walter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Walter Bender
> >> Sugar Labs
> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
> >
>
>
> I like your niece's model of the neighborhood view--maybe we can have
> some way of generating aliases for the various APs based upon which
> Jabber server you are on; the Jabber servers themselves could have
> nicknames too, based on their intended constituency. But it skirts the
> question of what tools communities use to organize content and
> generate their narratives.
>
> -walter
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
------=_Part_22677_9123748.1223251099868
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
<div dir="ltr">I would like to think about going one more step. Rather then just aliasing the APs to kid readable names. How about moving the _how _ to connect to the network issue to the control panel?<br><br>The Neighborhood view would then become a _what_ or _who_ to connect to View; in my example a Jabber channel, in Bryan's example a Moodle room. <br>
<br>From a kids point of view, the important groupings are the kids in Mr Hardy's class or Mrs. Kings Class. Not, the people in room 208 at 8:00.<br><br>From a planning perspective the what class, needs what room, with which equipment, at what time question is a non trivial. But, the planning complications are hidden as much a possible from the kids. <br>
<br>david<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Walter Bender <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:walter.bender at gmail.com">walter.bender at gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 2:06 PM, David Farning <<a href="mailto:dfarning at sugarlabs.org">dfarning at sugarlabs.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> This takes us back to the collaboration server discussions from last week.<br>
><br>
> Rather than attempting to organizing content it may be preferable to improve<br>
> the tools which help users self organize into communities.<br>
><br>
> Last night I got into a discussion about the value of the Neighborhood view<br>
> with my 2nd grade niece:) She was pretty befuddled as to why she had to<br>
> chose between belkin_019, linksys_1, meshview_11,.... From her perspective<br>
> it made more sense to click on 'Mrs. Kings class' if she wanted to do her<br>
> homework, or 'After school fun' if she wanted to talk with her friends.<br>
><br>
> While the idea of APs and mesh networks is important to us as geeks and<br>
> developers. From a user point of view the idea of virtual communities or<br>
> rooms seems clearer.<br>
><br>
> Maybe it is my misunderstanding of the nature of a jabber sever. A IRC<br>
> server is pretty useless until the users can self select into channels.<br>
><br>
> Possibly, the idea of manipulating narratives could be best handled by<br>
> helping communities develop which can discover, share, and reflect on<br>
> _their_own_ stories.<br>
><br>
> thanks<br>
> david<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Walter Bender <<a href="mailto:walter.bender at gmail.com">walter.bender at gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> We need to add an its.an.education.project alias to this list...<br>
>><br>
>> -walter<br>
>><br>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
>> From: Walter Bender <<a href="mailto:walter.bender at gmail.com">walter.bender at gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Date: Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:29 PM<br>
>> Subject: Re: [sugar] Narrative<br>
>> To: Sameer Verma <<a href="mailto:sverma at sfsu.edu">sverma at sfsu.edu</a>><br>
>> Cc: Bryan Berry <<a href="mailto:bryan.berry at gmail.com">bryan.berry at gmail.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:bens at alum.mit.edu">bens at alum.mit.edu</a>, sugar<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:sugar at lists.laptop.org">sugar at lists.laptop.org</a>>, "its. an. education. project"<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:its.an.education.project at lists.sugarlabs.org">its.an.education.project at lists.sugarlabs.org</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Each of us seems to have interpreted Michael's note differently, so<br>
>> perhaps some more clarity of definitions is in order. In any case, my<br>
>> focus was on the assertion that there are "no excellent way to<br>
>> manipulate narratives" within Sugar. Excellence is the standard we<br>
>> should be striving for and I do agree we have a ways to go in terms of<br>
>> developing tools for "manipulating" "narratives" within Sugar. But it<br>
>> seems a funny dichotomy: manipulating narratives vs. modes for<br>
>> discovery.<br>
>><br>
>> When I think about Sugar, I think about its providing a scaffolding<br>
>> for discovering, expressing, critiquing, and reflecting. Manipulating<br>
>> narrative seems to cut across all of these area (as does<br>
>> collaboration). We have a browser--the "discovery" platform du<br>
>> jour--but also an ebook reader and media player, and various tools for<br>
>> collecting and inspecting data (e.g, Measure and Distance). In terms<br>
>> of expression, we have a wide variety of tools, including word<br>
>> processing, rich media, programming, etc. Tools for critique and<br>
>> reflection seems the least developed thus far: we have chat and we<br>
>> have sharing and simple debugging tools, and we have the Journal, but<br>
>> we don't yet support (natively) much in the way of organizing data to<br>
>> make an analysis or argument. Is this the role Bryan expects Moodle to<br>
>> play? If so, I don't really see how. There are beginnings of tools<br>
>> such as spreadsheets, mindmaps, etc. being "Sugarized". What else<br>
>> should we add to this list? There is also a powerful presentation<br>
>> toolkit built into Etoys--is it the lack of PowerPoint that Bryan is<br>
>> missing?--but it is not very easy to find. Perhaps something more<br>
>> wiki-like or HTML-based would be better. Having it available off-line<br>
>> is probably as important as accessing an on-line system, such as is<br>
>> already available in Moodle and in general on any GNU/Linux (or even<br>
>> Windows) server. In terms of organizing school itself, Moodle and its<br>
>> like certainly have an important role to play. Sugar is not intended<br>
>> to be all things, but part of a learning ecosystem.<br>
>><br>
>> There is certainly a paucity of lesson plans developed around Sugar:<br>
>> how does one best leverage this collection of tools for learning. And<br>
>> undoubtedly, a dearth of content readily packaged and categorized. But<br>
>> I don't see these as fundamental design flaws in Sugar as much as a<br>
>> place where more effort needs to be invested. Sugar is reaching a<br>
>> point of maturity where such investments make sense.<br>
>><br>
>> In any case, I'd love to hear Michael's "interesting ideas".<br>
>><br>
>> -walter<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Walter Bender<br>
>> Sugar Labs<br>
>> <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
>> <a href="mailto:IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>I like your niece's model of the neighborhood view--maybe we can have<br>
some way of generating aliases for the various APs based upon which<br>
Jabber server you are on; the Jabber servers themselves could have<br>
nicknames too, based on their intended constituency. But it skirts the<br>
question of what tools communities use to organize content and<br>
generate their narratives.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
-walter<br>
<br>
--<br>
Walter Bender<br>
Sugar Labs<br>
<a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
------=_Part_22677_9123748.1223251099868--
More information about the IAEP
mailing list