[math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 20

[Stephen Jacobs]

will be pinging the relevant we colleges here in rochester re student  
and faculty input as well

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2009, at 4:21 PM, fourthgrademath- 
request at lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Caroline Meeks)
>   2. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Greg Dekoenigsberg)
>   3. mongo now in git (Greg Dekoenigsberg)
>   4. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Richard Holden)
>   5. Re: FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19 (Greg Dekoenigsberg)
>   6. Trying to build teams of teachers+coders (Greg Dekoenigsberg)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:05:50 -0400
> From: Caroline Meeks <caroline at solutiongrove.com>
> Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19
> To: fourthgrademath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Message-ID:
>    <b74fba2b0903161005j2af6aa6bl5bba020af9f9bc0d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:57:08 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk at redhat.com>
>> Subject: [math4] Teachers and developers: "Finding the 44"
>> To: FourthGradeMath at lists.sugarlabs.org
>> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD. 
>> 2.00.0903160709380.3670 at localhost.localdomain>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> Love this idea. What do we have right now? 20 developers and 1  
> teacher?
>
> One suggestion based on the group work I've been doing and studying  
> this
> semester and my experience is that groups of 6 might work better on  
> average
> then groups of 2.
>
> Maybe 4 developers and 2 teachers working on 4 activities.
>
> And although the activities should not be perfect, they should be very
> thoughtful. That is full of thought about why what you are trying  
> might work
> for learning.  Team members should be thinking together about  
> learning and
> it would be great if we could transfer some of those thoughts to the  
> next
> person who picks up the activity and improves it.  Maybe the next  
> person
> will also improve or have a different view of the pedagy of the  
> activity
> too.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lest anyone think I don't want teachers around, which is perhaps  
>> what some
>> may have construed from my comments, I want to make it VERY clear:
>>
>> THIS WON'T WORK IF WE CAN'T FIND 4TH GRADE MATH TEACHERS TO HELP US.
>>
>> The way forward, ultimately, is to pair teachers and developers  
>> together
>> to build activities that map *directly* to clear objectives, as  
>> defined
>> by the curriculum framework:
>>
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Resources/CurriculumChart
>>
>> The nice thing about the open source model is that these activities  
>> don't
>> have to be perfect.  In fact, they *shouldn't* be perfect.  They  
>> should be
>> experimental.  They should be moving targets.  They should come  
>> together
>> quickly.  They should be simple, and numerous.  Over time, it will  
>> become
>> clear which ones have the most momentum, because people will  
>> actually be
>> using them, and ultimately we will polish those gems that our  
>> community
>> find most useful.
>>
>> What we're really doing here is establishing a framework that will  
>> allow
>> us to get started -- because it tells us *what we should be working  
>> on*.
>> Too frequently, we've had developers decide to write a cool activity,
>> without having a clear goal.  The result is a bunch of cool  
>> activities,
>> but with not nearly enough coverage.
>>
>> Hence Math4.  44 objectives, 44 activities.  Which means that we  
>> need 44
>> developers, and 44 teachers to guide them.  :)
>>
>> If you look again at the Curriculum Chart:
>>
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Resources/CurriculumChart
>>
>> ...you see the 44 objectives, and next to them, slots for people and
>> activities.  As we recruit developers and teachers, we should be  
>> pairing
>> them up by objective.
>>
>> As an example, I've added myself and Mongo to the following  
>> objective:
>>
>> "4.P.3: Determine values of variables in simple equations, e.g.,  
>> 4106 ? x
>> = 37, 5 = y + 3, and s ? y = 3."
>>
>> Note: Mongo, in the short term, will really just be a drill tool  
>> that can
>> handle any content.  However, I am picking a single objective  
>> anyway, even
>> though it could conceivably handle multiple objectives.
>>
>> So now we need 43 developers and 44 teachers.  I'm doing what I can  
>> to
>> bring developers to the table.
>>
>> Who can bring the teachers?  We need your help.
>>
>>
>> You're exactly right!  This initial period is not about a finished
>> product, it's about getting started.
>>
>> I think Caroline is frustrated because this isn't very educational at
>> this point, but what it is, is very open source like.  Now if  
>> you're use
>> to what end products look like in Open Source, you'll be wondering  
>> why
>> we're so "off the mark" at these beginning stages.
>
>
> I'm not frustrated. I'm excited!!!  I just know from research how many
> learning technologies are totally ineffective and sometimes even  
> reduce
> learning.  So I want to encourage thinking about pedagogy and learning
> during the design stage.
>
> I also want to encourage reflective practice in general.
>
> I do this for two reasons. First, I think it will make your work  
> better and
> second, its the change we need to accomplish in the schools and with  
> the
> students, it just makes sense for us to try to practice it ourselves.
>
> I'm excited because having kids using instructional materials that  
> really
> promote thinking and result in learning is the whole point.  What  
> you are
> starting is important.  Thinking about it is important too.
>
> Thanks!
> Caroline
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> FourthGradeMath mailing list
>> FourthGradeMath at lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath
>>
>>
>> End of FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19
>> **********************************************
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Caroline Meeks
> Solution Grove
> Caroline at SolutionGrove.com
>
> 617-500-3488 - Office
> 505-213-3268 - Fax
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:49:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk at redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19
> To: Caroline Meeks <caroline at solutiongrove.com>
> Cc: fourthgrademath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903161343310.3658 at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Caroline Meeks wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Love this idea. What do we have right now? 20 developers and 1  
>> teacher?
>
> More than that, probably.  :)
>
>> One suggestion based on the group work I've been doing and studying  
>> this
>> semester and my experience is that groups of 6 might work better on
>> average then groups of 2.
>>
>> Maybe 4 developers and 2 teachers working on 4 activities.?
>
> Sure.  These numbers are flexible.  The problem is clear, though: we  
> need
> more teachers of 4th grade math, and we need them badly -- and it's  
> not
> going to be the geeks who recruit them.  :)
>
>> And although the activities should not be perfect, they should be  
>> very
>> thoughtful. That is full of thought about why what you are trying  
>> might
>> work for learning.? Team members should be thinking together about
>> learning and it would be great if we could transfer some of those
>> thoughts to the next person who picks up the activity and improves  
>> it.?
>> Maybe the next person will also improve or have a different view of  
>> the
>> pedagy of the activity too.
>
> This is all true, of course.
>
>> I'm not frustrated. I'm excited!!!? I just know from research how  
>> many
>> learning technologies are totally ineffective and sometimes even  
>> reduce
>> learning.? So I want to encourage thinking about pedagogy and  
>> learning
>> during the design stage.
>
> The brilliant thing about open source is that "failures" always  
> contain in
> them the seeds of future success.  So while I agree that we don't  
> want to
> be precipitous, I also think that open source is most effective when
> there's a bias towards action.
>
>> I also want to encourage reflective practice in general.
>
> I want to encourage rapid failure in general.  Very yin and yang  
> between
> us.  :)
>
>> I do this for two reasons. First, I think it will make your work  
>> better
>> and second, its the change we need to accomplish in the schools and  
>> with
>> the students, it just makes sense for us to try to practice it
>> ourselves.
>>
>> I'm excited because having kids using instructional materials that
>> really promote thinking and result in learning is the whole point.?  
>> What
>> you are starting is important.? Thinking about it is important too.
>
> My learning style is a rapid loop of doing and thinking.  Reflection  
> and
> action together.  A structure that allows exploration and celebrates
> failure.
>
> Of course, until we find a whole bunch of teachers to set us right,  
> we're
> just talking to ourselves.  :)  How can we recruit teachers to our  
> cause?
>
> --g
>
> --
> Got an XO that you're not using?  Loan it to a needy developer!
>   [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:44:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk at redhat.com>
> Subject: [math4] mongo now in git
> To: FourthGradeMath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903161442320.3658 at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> I was in a race to see whether I could get a working git repo in
> fedorahosted or sugarlabs.  fedorahosted won.  :)
>
> So, developers interested in mongo, find it here:
>
> https://fedorahosted.org/dungeonsofmongo/
>
> It needs a lot of work.  Duh.  Patches welcome.  :)
>
> --g
>
> --
> Got an XO that you're not using?  Loan it to a needy developer!
>   [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:48:35 -0600
> From: Richard Holden <aciddeath at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19
> To: Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk at redhat.com>
> Cc: Caroline Meeks <caroline at solutiongrove.com>,
>    fourthgrademath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Message-ID: <49BE9F03.2090800 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
>>
>>> And although the activities should not be perfect, they should be  
>>> very
>>> thoughtful. That is full of thought about why what you are trying
>>> might work for learning.  Team members should be thinking together
>>> about learning and it would be great if we could transfer some of
>>> those thoughts to the next person who picks up the activity and
>>> improves it.  Maybe the next person will also improve or have a
>>> different view of the pedagy of the activity too.
>>
>> This is all true, of course.
>>
>>> I'm not frustrated. I'm excited!!!  I just know from research how  
>>> many
>>> learning technologies are totally ineffective and sometimes even
>>> reduce learning.  So I want to encourage thinking about pedagogy and
>>> learning during the design stage.
>>
>
> I don't know how useful in general my resources can be, since they are
> my relatives and don't have a great deal of time, but my Mother-in-law
> is a retired teacher who did both 4th grade and special-education.
>
> My mother is also I guess officially retired from teaching and while  
> she
> didn't ever teach 4th grade she is currently working on her  
> Doctorate in
> education methodologies at Brigham Young University here in Utah. She
> has some new research and a new learning methodology coming out of BYU
> soon that I'm going to see how it can fit in with what we are doing.
>
>> The brilliant thing about open source is that "failures" always  
>> contain
>> in them the seeds of future success.  So while I agree that we don't
>> want to be precipitous, I also think that open source is most  
>> effective
>> when there's a bias towards action.
>>
>>> I also want to encourage reflective practice in general.
>>
>> I want to encourage rapid failure in general.  Very yin and yang  
>> between
>> us.  :)
>>
>
> I think rapid failure is a good thing, but I think failure also  
> needs to
> be looked at closely to make sure we are not marking something a  
> failure
> because it doesn't work for a certain learning style and maybe missing
> the one or two children that it would help in the long run.
>>> I do this for two reasons. First, I think it will make your work
>>> better and second, its the change we need to accomplish in the  
>>> schools
>>> and with the students, it just makes sense for us to try to practice
>>> it ourselves.
>>>
>>> I'm excited because having kids using instructional materials that
>>> really promote thinking and result in learning is the whole point.
>>> What you are starting is important.  Thinking about it is  
>>> important too.
>>
>> My learning style is a rapid loop of doing and thinking.   
>> Reflection and
>> action together.  A structure that allows exploration and celebrates
>> failure.
>>
>> Of course, until we find a whole bunch of teachers to set us right,
>> we're just talking to ourselves.  :)  How can we recruit teachers  
>> to our
>> cause?
>>
>
> If we're not to old I'm sure our 4th grade teachers would love to  
> see us
> again, or if you have children of your own talk to the teachers at  
> their
> school, they may not have time to jump on the mailing list and be a
> solid resource but most teachers would love to explain how they do  
> their
> job, especially when your not trying to tell them they do it wrong.
>
> -Richard Holden
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:59:02 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk at redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: [math4] FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 19
> To: Richard Holden <aciddeath at gmail.com>
> Cc: Caroline Meeks <caroline at solutiongrove.com>,
>    fourthgrademath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903161453170.3658 at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Richard Holden wrote:
>
>> I think rapid failure is a good thing, but I think failure also  
>> needs to
>> be looked at closely to make sure we are not marking something a  
>> failure
>> because it doesn't work for a certain learning style and maybe  
>> missing
>> the one or two children that it would help in the long run.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> One thing about this: I favor the idea of "the tool that does the  
> job,"
> rather than the "one-size-fits-all" tool.  If a given tool fails to  
> reach
> a certain set of kids, the lesson may not be "let us change this  
> tool,"
> but maybe "let us leave this tool, but fork it to create a similar  
> tool
> that works better for another set of kids."
>
>> If we're not too old I'm sure our 4th grade teachers would love to  
>> see
>> us again, or if you have children of your own talk to the teachers at
>> their school, they may not have time to jump on the mailing list  
>> and be
>> a solid resource but most teachers would love to explain how they do
>> their job, especially when you're not trying to tell them they do it
>> wrong.
>
> The thing I'm looking for, specifically, is teachers who are willing  
> to
> sit down with developers, share their ideas up front to give  
> developers a
> direction to move towards, and then who will commit to playing with  
> the
> resultant activities as they take shape.
>
> I think Caroline is right: aiming for small teams of, say, 4  
> developers
> and 2 teachers, meeting every few weeks, is a great model that we  
> should
> look to enable.
>
> --g
>
> --
> Got an XO that you're not using?  Loan it to a needy developer!
>   [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]]
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:20:57 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk at redhat.com>
> Subject: [math4] Trying to build teams of teachers+coders
> To: FourthGradeMath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0903161619160.3658 at localhost.localdomain>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> So after a quick discussion with Caroline today, I'm trying to come up
> with a way of building small teams of teachers+coders.
>
> This is my first attempt:
>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Math4Team/Contacts
>
> Please read and comment.  The goal will be to drive teachers and  
> coders
> both to this page, as we begin our recruitment exercise in earnest.
>
> Patches welcome.  :)
>
> --g
>
> --
> Got an XO that you're not using?  Loan it to a needy developer!
>   [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> FourthGradeMath mailing list
> FourthGradeMath at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath
>
>
> End of FourthGradeMath Digest, Vol 2, Issue 20
> **********************************************