[Sugar-devel] Language Support

James Cameron quozl at laptop.org
Wed Aug 12 18:44:33 EDT 2015


I agree.

Tony, please make sure you test the changes that have already been
done for 0.108.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 04:19:37PM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
> I think Tony is describing a problem on the language selector on 0.106, already
> fixed on 0.108.
> If you add a new language, by default add English -USA,
> if the user don't change that default and restart, the second language is not
> added.
> Try the same on sugar-build and should work
> 
> On Aug 12, 2015 12:49 PM, "Tony Anderson" <[1]tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
> 
>     Hi, Walter
> 
>     I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks like
>     that this was the intent of the + and - buttons.  I think the real problem
>     with
>     that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the +
>     button which suggests that you should click on + to add another language.
>     The
>     reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from an
>     accidental switch.
> 
>     Tony
> 
>     On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
>         On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson <[2]
>         tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
> 
>             Hi, Walter
> 
>             When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like
>             the Mate
>             keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
>             add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an
>             approach
>             would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.
> 
>         I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
>         options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
>         override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
>         reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
>         solution.
> 
>         -walter
> 
>             Tony
> 
>             On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
>                 On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson <[3]
>                 tony_anderson at usa.net>
>                 wrote:
> 
>                     Hi, Sam
> 
>                     In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after
>                     all, they are
>                     supposed to try everything) and switched their system to
>                     Arabic, probably
>                     because it looked interesting and was at the top of the
>                     list. However,
>                     finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit
>                     trickier.
> 
>                     Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought
>                     through the
>                     deployment process. The computers are typically batch
>                     flashed before
>                     being
>                     assigned to students.
>                     So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade
>                     level can't be
>                     done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain
>                     to the
>                     teachers
>                     how to
>                     provide (or have the children provide) the correct
>                     information through
>                     settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality
>                     many deployments
>                     share one laptop
>                     among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class
>                     5 in the next
>                     hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these
>                     settings are
>                     really not accurate.
> 
>                 Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
>                 circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would
>                 apply to
>                 groups of students rather than individual students. It could
>                 still
>                 inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.
> 
>                     Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is
>                     also written
>                     on
>                     the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is
>                     theirs in the
>                     charging
>                     rack.
> 
>                     So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it
>                     will be done by
>                     an
>                     experienced computer user and that others will be done by
>                     students and
>                     teachers is difficult.
> 
>                 It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the
>                 language set
>                 to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe
>                 we
>                 should have some way to resetting to the language in which the
>                 laptop
>                 was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
>                 control panel section? This will require our keeping track of
>                 the
>                 initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
>                 Thoughts on this?
> 
>                     Tony
> 
>                     On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
> 
>                     Hey Tony,
> 
>                     On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson <[4]
>                     tony_anderson at usa.net>
>                     wrote:
> 
>                         Hi, Sam
> 
>                         My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how
>                         we explain it to
>                         users. Remember our target audience is teachers and
>                         students in primary
>                         school in the
>                         developing world with little or no prior computer
>                         experience. As
>                         developers, we often see things as simple because we
>                         have used many
>                         others
>                         like it. It may not
>                         be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
> 
>                     Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd
>                     be pretty
>                     amazing
>                     to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by
>                     their deployment
>                     :)
> 
>                         However, we probably should think about the dialect/
>                         region selection. If
>                         I
>                         have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list
>                         should be in
>                         Arabic.
> 
>                     Ticket:  [5]https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
> 
>                         We may also want to think about that list - do the
>                         entries represent
>                         countries where the language is spoken or represent
>                         dialects? I suspect
>                         the
>                         lists were
>                         copied from earlier releases.
> 
>                     They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for
>                     the
>                     distribution.
> 
>                         Tony
> 
>                         On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
> 
>                         Hi Tony,
> 
>                         The control panel is very simple.  The left column is
>                         the language and
>                         the
>                         right column is the region/dialect.
> 
>                         Maybe that should be a column header?
> 
>                         Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons. 
>                         The dropdown for
>                         the
>                         language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add
>                         a new language
>                         button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract
>                         the dropdown
>                         includes
>                         the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
> 
>                         Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!)
>                         to be more
>                         consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui
>                         considering it does a very
>                         complex job.
> 
>                         I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image
>                         that you are
>                         running,
>                         can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're
>                         describing.
> 
>                         Please consider opening separate tickets for the
>                         issues.
> 
>                         Thanks,
>                         Sam
> 
>                         On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson <[6]
>                         tony_anderson at usa.net>
>                         wrote:
> 
>                             Hi,
> 
>                             To continue the story. The way it works, you click
>                             on the button to the
>                             left of the language (English) to
>                             get a list. You click on the language to get a
>                             dialect (or region?).
>                             You
>                             click on the dialect to select it. You then click
>                             on the
>                             + button to get it 'really' selected. You then
>                             click on the top right
>                             button to restart as always.
> 
>                             After restarting the added language (German) is the
>                             system language.
>                             However, when going back to the
>                             language selection in settings, German is the only
>                             language shown. So
>                             you need to click to open the language
>                             list, click on English. This opens up the options
>                             of Australien and
>                             USA.
>                             Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
>                             option has disappeared.
> 
>                             I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects
>                             available. That list
>                             is
>                             in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
>                             switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the
>                             button to the left
>                             of
>                             Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
>                             in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English
>                             is evidently shown
>                             in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
>                             Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic
>                             except USA. I
>                             selected
>                             USA and switched the system to Spanish.
> 
>                             I then went back to settings and got a list of
>                             languages in Spanish
>                             (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
>                             of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the
>                             original English,
>                             USA option.
> 
>                             Tony
> 
>                             On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
> 
>                                 I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday
>                                 trying to show how easy it
>                                 is to switch
>                                 languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
> 
>                                 In previous versions, you go to settings and
>                                 language and get a long
>                                 list of supported
>                                 languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add
>                                 languages in the order
>                                 you prefer'.
>                                 So I clicked on + to add German. It added
>                                 another row: English USA + -
> 
>                                 In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any
>                                 other language that
>                                 English USA.
> 
>                                 However, today I found that the trick is to
>                                 click on the button to the
>                                 left of the word English. This
>                                 opens the expected list. Click on German adds a
>                                 line with dialects:
>                                 Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
> 
>                                 Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add'
>                                 together with a '+' button at
>                                 least in my case led to confusion.
> 
>                                 Tony
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> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [2] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [3] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [4] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [5] https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
> [6] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [7] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [9] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [10] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [11] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [12] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [13] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [14] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [15] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [16] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

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-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/


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