[Sugar-devel] Language Support

Tony Anderson tony_anderson at usa.net
Wed Aug 12 11:48:43 EDT 2015

Hi, Walter

I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks 
like that this was the intent of the + and - buttons.  I think the real 
problem with
that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the + 
button which suggests that you should click on + to add another 
language. The
reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from 
an accidental switch.


On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
>> Hi, Walter
>> When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like the Mate
>> keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
>> add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an approach
>> would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.
> I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
> options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
> override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
> reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
> solution.
> -walter
>> Tony
>> On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi, Sam
>>>> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
>>>> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic, probably
>>>> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
>>>> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.
>>>> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
>>>> deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before
>>>> being
>>>> assigned to students.
>>>> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't be
>>>> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the
>>>> teachers
>>>> how to
>>>> provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
>>>> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many deployments
>>>> share one laptop
>>>> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the next
>>>> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
>>>> really not accurate.
>>> Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
>>> circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
>>> groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
>>> inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.
>>>> Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written
>>>> on
>>>> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the
>>>> charging
>>>> rack.
>>>> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done by
>>>> an
>>>> experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
>>>> teachers is difficult.
>>> It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
>>> to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
>>> should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
>>> was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
>>> control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
>>> initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
>>> Thoughts on this?
>>>> Tony
>>>> On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>>> Hey Tony,
>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Sam
>>>>> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
>>>>> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
>>>>> school in the
>>>>> developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
>>>>> developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many
>>>>> others
>>>>> like it. It may not
>>>>> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>>>> Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty
>>>> amazing
>>>> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their deployment
>>>> :)
>>>>> However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If
>>>>> I
>>>>> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in
>>>>> Arabic.
>>>> Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
>>>>> We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
>>>>> countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect
>>>>> the
>>>>> lists were
>>>>> copied from earlier releases.
>>>> They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the
>>>> distribution.
>>>>> Tony
>>>>> On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>>>> Hi Tony,
>>>>> The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and
>>>>> the
>>>>> right column is the region/dialect.
>>>>> Maybe that should be a column header?
>>>>> Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for
>>>>> the
>>>>> language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
>>>>> button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown
>>>>> includes
>>>>> the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
>>>>> Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
>>>>> consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
>>>>> complex job.
>>>>> I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are
>>>>> running,
>>>>> can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.
>>>>> Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Sam
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the
>>>>>> left of the language (English) to
>>>>>> get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?).
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
>>>>>> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
>>>>>> button to restart as always.
>>>>>> After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
>>>>>> However, when going back to the
>>>>>> language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
>>>>>> you need to click to open the language
>>>>>> list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and
>>>>>> USA.
>>>>>> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
>>>>>> option has disappeared.
>>>>>> I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That list
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
>>>>>> switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the left
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
>>>>>> in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently shown
>>>>>> in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
>>>>>> Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I
>>>>>> selected
>>>>>> USA and switched the system to Spanish.
>>>>>> I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish
>>>>>> (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
>>>>>> of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English,
>>>>>> USA option.
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>> On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
>>>>>>> I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it
>>>>>>> is to switch
>>>>>>> languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
>>>>>>> In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long
>>>>>>> list of supported
>>>>>>> languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the order
>>>>>>> you prefer'.
>>>>>>> So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA + -
>>>>>>> In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that
>>>>>>> English USA.
>>>>>>> However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to the
>>>>>>> left of the word English. This
>>>>>>> opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects:
>>>>>>> Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button at
>>>>>>> least in my case led to confusion.
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>>>>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>>>>> .
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