From bryan at olenepal.org Thu Jan 1 20:50:40 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:50:40 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II Message-ID: <1230861040.17108.4.camel@hitman> This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this spring and coming summer. Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple for them to contribute. But Which Developers? Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to help. We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system internals. Based on these characteristics, let's call these people designers. The good news is that there are lots of designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies in a few years time. PyGTK won't take over the world nor will VB.net. The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is AJAX, with the difference that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses dialects of Javascript (Actionscript) and XML (MXML). Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." The FOSS Nepal community has won the award for best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. Open-Source is Expensive Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him to support them financially once he got a job. Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source but their free time is significantly more limited. This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK activity framework are as follows:
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. I propose a new set of design goals:
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities utilizing widely-used tools.
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
It's OK to be Opinionated We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of Convention Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do allow you to create nice applications very quickly. Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it doesn't constrain anyone. This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all things web to this article In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in the current default activity development framework, and the urgent need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. Let's Ride The Internet Wave The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in V8 javascript compiler and Apple's investment in Webkit. I speculate that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that wave of innovation. In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. Developing Country Developer Economics As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing countries is quite different than that in the developed world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much less time to contribute. We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from the more rewarding parts of activity development. Building Good KARMA Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of KARMA should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the developing world are web developers and a successful activity framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules of Pashto grammar. Flash Ain't Open-Source Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: Rob Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. Javascript Isn't Ready I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers happy. Building Momentum for Gnash I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering sore that irritates the open-source community into action. Moving the Conversation Forward Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web technologies. I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in sugar activities. I will save those for another day. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From michael at laptop.org Thu Jan 1 23:41:46 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:41:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> Message-ID: <20090102044146.GA3164@didacte.laptop.org> On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 11:06:07PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote: > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you > > recognize that we need a more developer-centric activity framework > > that uses web technologies. > >Making activity development easier is an unarguably fine goal, but I >don't think there are any simple solutions. So what? > For example, do we even have a Flash editor under Linux? What does this have to do with Brian's real points about the economic factors underlying availability of programmer time? (Tangentially: where did the GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender come from?) > Is the first instruction on how to write activities for someone in the > developing world going to be "First, pirate a copy of Windows and > Adobe Flash Professional, and then.."? Can we propose a workable counter-offer? Michael From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 00:32:39 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:32:39 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> Message-ID: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> On Thu, 2009-01-01 at 23:06 -0500, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash > > can. Ouch, > > The XO doesn't have much of a GPU, so I wouldn't be so worried about > this. Any Javascript renderer that backs onto cairo will get as any > other graphics on the XO. > > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you > > recognize that we need a more developer-centric activity framework > > that uses web technologies. > > Making activity development easier is an unarguably fine goal, but I > don't think there are any simple solutions. For example, do we even > have a Flash editor under Linux? Is the first instruction on how to > write activities for someone in the developing world going to be "First, > pirate a copy of Windows and Adobe Flash Professional, and then.."? If they know what computer programming is, they have likely already done the above steps. Developing learning activities requires the developer already know something about programming. In Nepal, China, India that means they have at least a pirated copy of Windows and possibly Adobe Flash. If they have linux, that means that some time ago they had pirated Windows which they used to learn about linux. If they don't have a pirated copy of Windows then they don't have computers to develop on. The key is that the vast majority of programmers in the world are not linux programmers and my 7 years experience in the developing world has taught me that the vast majority of software developer there are web developers. The resulting activities have to be open-source but the IDE used to develop them doesn't have to be. All activities on the XO don't have to be hackable. Hacking teaches important thinking processes but it doesn't teach grammar, art history or biology. Someone can create a less-hackable-but open-source- flash activity that teaches Tibetan art. It accomplishes the goal of teaching the elements of Tibetan mandala paintings. That's a fair compromise. There are 200-300 flash developers in Nepal and about 2 guys that have written pygtk apps (maybe once). The numbers are more extreme in Bangladesh, India, Pakistan. We can't bet on mass #'s of programmers suddenly becoming linux developers in order to vastly increase the # of activities. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From gary at garycmartin.com Fri Jan 2 08:06:44 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:06:44 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> Message-ID: On 2 Jan 2009, at 05:32, Bryan Berry wrote: > There are 200-300 flash developers in Nepal and about 2 guys that have > written pygtk apps (maybe once). The numbers are more extreme in > Bangladesh, India, Pakistan. We can't bet on mass #'s of programmers > suddenly becoming linux developers in order to vastly increase the # > of > activities. I've done a lot of flash development and design in the past but was driven away by the cost & closed nature of the IDE, and the _shocking_ breaks in compatibility from version to version ? made supporting any set of non trivial source code a nightmare past each version release, you were often better to re-write from scratch ? now that's expensive... To cut to the chase, the 200-300 flash developers in Nepal can already use their copies of Flash, Photoshop, and Illustrator to create rich media experiences on the XO, if they want to. All they need do is stick to creating/exporting Flash Player 5 or perhaps Flash Player 6 compatible swf's, avoid proprietary codecs, and do at least some minimal testing on an XO to make sure they haven't over cooked on the fancy effects so much that it's no longer usable***. This work can be distributed right now as a .xol library bundle, or with some code hacking as a real activity using the same back end that Browse does (like the GMail and the more recent Help activity). I understand there is some sugar planning to make a more efficient web widget/canvas so that such activities can be more simply cooky-cut from a template/demo activity (less duplication of boiler-plate code). This approach also works for purely HTML/CSS/JavaScript developers. *** very few developers actually want to design for lower end systems, most wants their work full of shiny, spinning, anti-alised, alpha composited eye candy... Achieving this AND making it perform efficiently is not an easy task, so most don't spend the extra time. --Gary From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 11:04:53 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 08:04:53 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 03:09 -0500, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > > Developing learning activities requires the developer already know > > something about programming. In Nepal, China, India that means they > > have at least a pirated copy of Windows and possibly Adobe Flash. > > If they have linux, that means that some time ago they had pirated > > Windows which they used to learn about linux. > > That sounds plausible, at least for pirated Windows. (I'm sure it's > much harder to get a copy of Flash.) not really. They sell dvds w/ pirated flash on the streets of Kathmandu. The same is true for much of Asia. I don't know about Latin America. > I'm not willing to incorporate "First, get a pirated copy of Windows > and Flash" into my instructions for activity development, though. The current setup requires the following of potential activity designers: First, learn linux. That may take you several months to become comfortable with it. In particular you will have to learn the linux filesystem well enough to manage file permissions and juggling directories. Next, Learn Python. This might take you several weeks Then, learn the sugar idioms. Finally, you're ready to get started on your first Sugar activity! > We're supposed to be combating the inequity that says "we can create > things on our computers because we're rich, but you don't get to do > that on yours without breaking the law because you're poor". That > inequity is just as much a part of the digital divide as everything > else we're trying to bridge over, in my opinion. umm, I thought we were trying to empower kids how to learn for themselves. Be it grammar, math, science, history, etc. I don't believe in the digital divide. I believe in the Quality Divide, the huge quality differential b/w basic education for the world's poor and the world's rich. That is the problem I am most focused on and primary motivation for working on this project. > It feels important to me to be able to say "Here's a software platform > for you to start out with, and here's all of the software we used in > the process of making it, which means there's nothing stopping you > from learning to further it yourself". A true passing on of knowledge > from one group to another, as equals. Developers can write flash using vi and the SWF compiler from the command line http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Download +Flex+3 This paragraph reflects the opinion that developers should have to learn an entirely new set of tools to develop activities. I tried to make it very clear that developers in the developing world do not have time to learn a whole new set of tools. If that point did not come across to you or you disagree w/ that point, please let me know. > I imagine this is the kind of debate where no-one really changes their > mind; that's okay. As long as the viewpoint of software freedom as a > foundational principle for Sugar (even in the face of extra convenience) > is being represented and considered, I'm happy. That foundational principle is very important to me. I do feel that while the software and activities used on the XO have to be open-source, the IDE's and other software tools used to build software for the XO do not have to be open-source. > Thanks, > > - Chris. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 12:30:48 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:30:48 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901020930g3a529a23tbc789fb4bddf8574@mail.gmail.com> I think Bryan's idea is wonderfully practical. What's more, it sounds easy to achieve. You just need a 'swf-activity' launcher, and a script to sugarize .SWF files into .xo bundles which launch as fullscreen activities. Building it around Browse is probably a bad idea (re: the .xol suggestion). What's the point of loading up Firefox just to play a SWF file? There is still a place for PyGTK. If you want the "real" Sugar, e.g. collaboration, Journal interaction, the visual theme, etc. stick with PyGTK. If you want a simple Pashto grammar activity and have Flash programmers at your disposal, use Flash. -Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/ff41c9ca/attachment.htm From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 12:46:24 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:46:24 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> Message-ID: Bryan, I appreciate you raising this discussion thread. Unequivocally, We need to make it easier for everyone to contribute. In regard to your essay, I think it is important in this discussion to make a clearer distinction between (1) the constraints on FLOSS development in the developing world (i.e., the need to get paid); (2) the tools one uses for that work (e.g., Flash vs Javascript/HTML vs Python); (3) the role that "educational content" providers might play in development (i.e., who are they and are they primarily writing software?); and (4) the pedagogy we are espousing (e.g., is constructionism the only game in town?). 1. While others have also observed that there is a need for profit in the developing world for software developers, this by no means disqualifies FLOSS development. It just means that the profit comes not from selling a license to a closed package, but getting paid, for example, by providing a service. There is not necessarily new money to be had and it will take time to redirect money in the system that is directed towards FLOSS developers. But that doesn't suggest that FLOSS should be abandoned. It is clear that at least for education (and voting), FLOSS is *the* right way. 2. Low-cost/moderately powered hardware platforms do present some constraints on what tools and solutions are suitable. Other constraints include what skills are locally available and what rising tides should be exploited. HTML/Javascript is probably the lowest-hanging fruit, although Javascript performance on the OLPC-XO-1 hardware can be sluggish. But not as sluggish as Flash. It may be worth someone making a concerted effort to help Rob fine-tune Gnash (only Adobe can tune Flash) for the XO. The Sugar team will continue to try to lower the barriers to developing native Sugar Activities and putting Sugar wrappers around existing applications, be they written in Javascript (e.g., SocialCalc) or Python or any other environment. The foci are to provide ready access to the Journal and the collaboration mechanisms ("convention over configuration"). (Wade's note that arrived while I was composing this one is an example of what we can do as a community to help individual development efforts. 3. While I am thrilled that some classroom teachers are beginning to participate directly in the software development process (e.g., TurtleArt and Labyrinth), I am convinced that their major contribution will be more at the level of integration. There is a wonderful "curriculum" developed in Peru on community publishing that leverages Record, Write, Browse, and Chat. It didn't involve any Javascript or Flash, just thoughtful synthesis of the available tools. There are holes in our repertoire that preclude certain types of curriculum development: I am working on some presentation/portfolio tools, for example. What other holes need filling? And I am curious as to your experience working with teachers within the Etoys framework. Was that too difficult for them to master? How could we make it more accessible? And what are the roadblocks to developing web content for Sugar and/or OLPC-XOs? 4. Constructionism is not the only way. Our strategy at Sugar Labs is to make a platform that encourages more constructionism in the learning process, but that it would be a matter of lowering the barriers to entry, not closing doors to other approaches. To repeat a well-wore analogy: you can read a book in either PDF or Wiki format, but the chances that the reader will make annotations, add to a discussion, and even add to the content are all much greater with a Wiki because it has the proper affordances for such interventions. Providing such affordances to the learning experience might be motivated by a specific pedagogy, but it does not preclude other approaches. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 2 13:18:47 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:18:47 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) Message-ID: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> Hi, without needing to get into what is better for our deployments, I do see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using technologies such as HTML, CSS, etc Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would take ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which would be the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take in order to create a Sugar activity? I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could create some tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also have some ideas about how those activities could interact with the journal and other Sugar features. Thanks, Tomeu On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry wrote: > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. > > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this > spring and coming summer. > > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. > > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple > for them to contribute. > > But Which Developers? > > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are > technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to > help. > > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system > internals. > > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people > designers. The good news is that there are lots of > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. > > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies > in a few years time. href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't take over the > world nor will VB.net. > > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the difference > that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote > server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses > dialects of Javascript ( href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and > XML (MXML). > > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." > > The href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS Nepal community has won the award for best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. > > Open-Source is Expensive > > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend > some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him > to support them financially once he got a job. > > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source > but their free time is significantly more limited. > > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few > hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. > > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK > activity > framework are as follows: > >
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
> > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. > > I propose a new set of design goals: > >
    >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities utilizing > widely-used tools.
    2. >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. >
> > It's OK to be Opinionated > > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do allow you to create nice applications very quickly. > > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can > always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The > whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it > doesn't constrain anyone. > > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," > >
    >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* Flash
    • >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning activities so we don't > have to?
    • >
> > > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all > things web to this article > > > > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in > the current default activity development framework, and the urgent > need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. > > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time > I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. > > Let's Ride The Internet Wave > > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software > industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in > V8 javascript compiler and > Apple's investment in href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I speculate > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. > > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that > wave of innovation. > > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build > their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. > > Developing Country Developer Economics > > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing > countries is quite different than that in the developed > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much > less time to contribute. > > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are > much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. > > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from > the more rewarding parts of activity development. > > Building Good KARMA > > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. > > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of > KARMA > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the > developing world are web developers and a successful activity > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. > > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? > > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules > of Pashto grammar. > > Flash Ain't Open-Source > > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: > Rob > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. > > Javascript Isn't Ready > > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. > > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. > > > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers > happy. > > Building Momentum for Gnash > > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. > > Moving the Conversation Forward > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web > technologies. > > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. > > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 13:57:03 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:57:03 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901020930g3a529a23tbc789fb4bddf8574@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901020930g3a529a23tbc789fb4bddf8574@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1230922623.17108.44.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 12:30 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > I think Bryan's idea is wonderfully practical. What's more, it sounds > easy to achieve. You just need a 'swf-activity' launcher, and a > script to sugarize .SWF files into .xo bundles which launch as > fullscreen activities. that's a great idea > Building it around Browse is probably a bad idea (re: the .xol > suggestion). What's the point of loading up Firefox just to play a > SWF file? I think Firefox has some advantages because it is the environment that many web developers are familiar. It does add a lot of overhead though. Currently we use Firefox3 to launch Nepal's new flash-based activities. It has some problems > There is still a place for PyGTK. If you want the "real" Sugar, e.g. > collaboration, Journal interaction, the visual theme, etc. stick with > PyGTK. If you want a simple Pashto grammar activity and have Flash > programmers at your disposal, use Flash. There is very much a place for pygtk. It is excellent for developers who have more time on their hands and/or previous experience w/ pygtk. It also provides you w/ better access to the XO hardware. > -Wade -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 14:17:07 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:17:07 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 12:46 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > Bryan, I appreciate you raising this discussion thread. Unequivocally, > We need to make it easier for everyone to contribute. Thanks for your support! > In regard to your essay, I think it is important in this discussion to > make a clearer distinction between (1) the constraints on FLOSS > development in the developing world (i.e., the need to get paid); (2) > the tools one uses for that work (e.g., Flash vs Javascript/HTML vs > Python); (3) the role that "educational content" providers might play > in development (i.e., who are they and are they primarily writing > software?); and (4) the pedagogy we are espousing (e.g., is > constructionism the only game in town?). > > 1. While others have also observed that there is a need for profit in > the developing world for software developers, this by no means > disqualifies FLOSS development. It just means that the profit comes > not from selling a license to a closed package, but getting paid, for > example, by providing a service. There is not necessarily new money to > be had and it will take time to redirect money in the system that is > directed towards FLOSS developers. But that doesn't suggest that FLOSS > should be abandoned. It is clear that at least for education (and > voting), FLOSS is *the* right way. I am suggesting Flash because FLOSS should not exclusively be the domain of linux programmers. Certainly, some programmers need to get paid but the point of my article is that there are many developers in the developing world more than happy to volunteer their time. Unfortunately, that time is constrained and we need to empower them to use tools they are familiar w/ rather than forcing them to become linux programmers. I agree that FLOSS is absolutely the right way. However that doesn't mean that XYZ developer uses Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator to create a flash activity, their resulting work can't be open-source too. > 2. Low-cost/moderately powered hardware platforms do present some > constraints on what tools and solutions are suitable. Other > constraints include what skills are locally available and what rising > tides should be exploited. HTML/Javascript is probably the > lowest-hanging fruit, although Javascript performance on the OLPC-XO-1 > hardware can be sluggish. But not as sluggish as Flash. It may be > worth someone making a concerted effort to help Rob fine-tune Gnash > (only Adobe can tune Flash) for the XO. The Sugar team will continue > to try to lower the barriers to developing native Sugar Activities and > putting Sugar wrappers around existing applications, be they written > in Javascript (e.g., SocialCalc) or Python or any other environment. > The foci are to provide ready access to the Journal and the > collaboration mechanisms ("convention over configuration"). (Wade's > note that arrived while I was composing this one is an example of what > we can do as a community to help individual development efforts. I find that Flash runs plenty fast using the proprietary flash player. It is only slightly slower than a pygtk app. Unfortunately, flash is quite sluggish using Gnash by a factor of 2 or 3 if it runs at all. I hope that my article's appearance in olpcnews.com will spur more developers to assist Rob on gnash. There is nothing in Adobe's Flash player licensing that restricts me from installing it Nepal's default XO image. Their licensing does restrict me from posting a software image that include the flash plugin on the Internet. > 3. While I am thrilled that some classroom teachers are beginning to > participate directly in the software development process (e.g., > TurtleArt and Labyrinth), I am convinced that their major contribution > will be more at the level of integration. There is a wonderful > "curriculum" developed in Peru on community publishing that leverages > Record, Write, Browse, and Chat. It didn't involve any Javascript or > Flash, just thoughtful synthesis of the available tools. There are > holes in our repertoire that preclude certain types of curriculum > development: I am working on some presentation/portfolio tools, for > example. What other holes need filling? And I am curious as to your > experience working with teachers within the Etoys framework. Was that > too difficult for them to master? How could we make it more > accessible? And what are the roadblocks to developing web content for > Sugar and/or OLPC-XOs? It takes a long time to train teachers to use Etoys who have never used a computer before. Etoys _requires_ mastery of the touchpad and that was more than we could teach in 2 weeks of training. Dragging and dropping is a non-trivial skill. I think we can train teachers familiar w/ computers how to use Etoys. Unfortunately, 95% of the teachers we deal and will deal w/ are not very familiar w/ computers. This is one of the major differences b/w Nepal's deployments and those of more developed countries like Uruguay. > 4. Constructionism is not the only way. Our strategy at Sugar Labs is > to make a platform that encourages more constructionism in the > learning process, but that it would be a matter of lowering the > barriers to entry, not closing doors to other approaches. To repeat a > well-wore analogy: you can read a book in either PDF or Wiki format, > but the chances that the reader will make annotations, add to a > discussion, and even add to the content are all much greater with a > Wiki because it has the proper affordances for such interventions. > Providing such affordances to the learning experience might be > motivated by a specific pedagogy, but it does not preclude other > approaches. > > -walter I love constructionism but too often we focus exclusively high-level math and science and not "foundational" skills or art, literature, grammar, health, etc. By foundational skills I mean basic literacy and numeracy. Kids can't create an Etoys game until they can count properly. They can't read the dialogues until they understand phonics properly. Some vocabulary has to be memorized and kids have to be able to add #'s quickly in their head. When was the last time you reached for a calculator to compute 5 + 5? If you did, you would work much more slowly. I find that Sugar contributors from developed countries are focused more on high-level thinking because that is a deficiency in their local school systems. Their kids can do basic math and _usually_ know basic grammar. Poorer countries are focused on basic numeracy and literacy. You can't program until you can add and read. Countries like Peru and Brazil have schools where kids are ready to focus on high level problems. They also probably have schools struggling to impart basic literacy and numeracy. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 14:30:46 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:30:46 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1230924646.17108.76.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 19:18 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > without needing to get into what is better for our deployments, I do > see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using technologies > such as HTML, CSS, etc > Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would take > ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which would be > the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take in order > to create a Sugar activity? Presently, we do the following to run flash activities on the XO 1) download the Firefox3.xo bundle 2) change the activity.info file 3) change some of the file and directory names to reference EPaathActivity instead of FirefoxActivity 4) copy the swf (flash) files to ./activity/Activity/Activities (I know it's ugly 5) change the firefoxactivity.py ff = [ './firefox' ] to ff = [ './firefox', './activity/Activity/Activities/OurSWF.htm'] > I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could create some > tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also have some > ideas about how those activities could interact with the journal and > other Sugar features. > > Thanks, > > Tomeu Again, this requires people to learn python, a whole new language that they don't necessarily use at work. We need to enable developers to be very productive in just 2-3 hours per week. For them to be productive they need to be using tools they are already familiar w/. Python is a tool popular among sysadmins and hackers. It is great tool. But folks who develop web UIs use css, html, javascript, and flash. I highly doubt that will change in the near or distant future. These are people we need to recruit as activity designers. > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry wrote: > > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. > > > > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and > > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December > > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots > > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this > > spring and coming summer. > > > > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education > > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some > > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. > > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. > > > > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, > > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we > > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple > > for them to contribute. > > > > But Which Developers? > > > > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth > > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine > > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are > > technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to > > help. > > > > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for > > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the > > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, > > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system > > internals. > > > > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people > > designers. The good news is that there are lots of > > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute > > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may > > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and > > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. > > > > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, > > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers > > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the > > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing > > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even > > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies > > in a few years time. > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't take over the > > world nor will VB.net. > > > > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the difference > > that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote > > server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline > > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses > > dialects of Javascript ( > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and > > XML (MXML). > > > > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop > > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, > > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing > > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific > > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I > > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." > > > > The > href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS Nepal community has won the award for best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. > > > > Open-Source is Expensive > > > > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable > > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend > > some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate > > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of > > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him > > to support them financially once he got a job. > > > > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They > > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended > > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, > > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source > > but their free time is significantly more limited. > > > > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. > > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create > > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the > > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few > > hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. > > > > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK > > activity > > framework are as follows: > > > >
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit > > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
> > > > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The > > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather > > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd > > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters > > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. > > > > I propose a new set of design goals: > > > >
    > >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities utilizing > > widely-used tools.
    2. > >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. > >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. > >
> > > > It's OK to be Opinionated > > > > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure > > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and > > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do allow you to create nice applications very quickly. > > > > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit > > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can > > always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The > > whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it > > doesn't constrain anyone. > > > > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II > > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," > > > >
    > >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* Flash
    • > >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • > >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning activities so we don't > > have to?
    • > >
> > > > > > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of > > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all > > things web to this article > > > > > > > > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical > > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in > > the current default activity development framework, and the urgent > > need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. > > > > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost > > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on > > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I > > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time > > I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. > > > > Let's Ride The Internet Wave > > > > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room > > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI > > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of > > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software > > industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support > > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in > > V8 javascript compiler and > > Apple's investment in > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I speculate > > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for > > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for > > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. > > > > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that > > wave of innovation. > > > > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and > > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries > > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build > > their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in > > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration > > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're > > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that > > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, > > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework > > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. > > > > Developing Country Developer Economics > > > > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing > > countries is quite different than that in the developed > > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much > > less time to contribute. > > > > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use > > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as > > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are > > much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They > > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. > > > > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement > > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their > > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes > > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web > > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your > > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities > > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a > > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible > > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from > > the more rewarding parts of activity development. > > > > Building Good KARMA > > > > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name > > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, > > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, > > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an > > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two > > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of > > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. > > > > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of > > KARMA > > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the > > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize > > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much > > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't > > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely > > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I > > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the > > developing world are web developers and a successful activity > > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. > > > > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher > > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data > > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to > > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice > > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of > > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw > > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? > > > > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to > > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" > > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of > > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the > > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but > > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar > > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules > > of Pashto grammar. > > > > Flash Ain't Open-Source > > > > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like > > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file > > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the > > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, > > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player > > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully > > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at > > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: > > Rob > > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. > > > > Javascript Isn't Ready > > > > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, > > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete > > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like > > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js > > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any > > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every > > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really > > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), > > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. > > > > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash > > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound > > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to > > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove > > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some > > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. > > > > > > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will > > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace > > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers > > happy. > > > > Building Momentum for Gnash > > > > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source > > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source > > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot > > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash > > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer > > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best > > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering > > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. > > > > Moving the Conversation Forward > > > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize > > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web > > technologies. > > > > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing > > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in > > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. > > > > > > -- > > Bryan W. Berry > > Technology Director > > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 14:32:30 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:32:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021132s7423157av3ad1cfa4267b9326@mail.gmail.com> The work we did for WikiBrowse (the WikipediaES and WikipediaEN) activities would make a good starting point. First of all the Browse code should be integrated into Sugar. This has been discussed before, and makes sense since you guys are maintaining the Browse activity anyway. The Browse code would be provided as a base sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity class. Currently, "web-based" activities (not content bundles) need to manually find the path to the Browse installation (assuming there is one!) and import its modules which feels rather hacky. The sugar.activity.webactivity module should also provide a WebServer class. This class is a SimpleHTTPServer derivative which supports iterating and finding and returning an unused local port to serve over. The server would handle GET/POST requests to a special '/journal/' URL prefix, allowing DHTML scripts access to the activity's Journal entry. Finally, a web-activity launcher script should be created. This script launches the Sugar Browse code and supports a variety of command line options to control what parts of the Browse UI are enabled, and to set the home page. It should be possible to launch a Browse instance with nothing but the Activity toolbar for example. These steps will allow for three (or more!) different variations on "web-based" activities: 1) Static HTML and/or DHTML ala the existing .xol system. A collection of .html, css and .js files can be bundled as a .xo file. The included activity.info exec line calls web-activity with appropriate command line options. The advantage of this approach over .xol files is that the "web-based activity" appears as a first class object in the Sugar UI with an independent icon on the Home view. Further, since the sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer is used, DHTML code can read/write from the activity's Journal entry. 2) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom UI. In WikiBrowse, I subclassed WebActivity and added a new Search toolbar, which searches the wiki DB and retrieves a page of results. This is the same as variation 1, except instead of calling "web-activity", a new Python activity class is derived from sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity and modifies the UI in some way - adding toolbars, etc. 3) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom server. In WikiBrowse, a custom webserver attaches to a local port and serves wiki pages. It decompresses and formats wiki pages before serving them up as XHTML. So in this variation, a simple Python WebServer class is derived from sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer and the appropriate page request handing methods are added. The base WebServer class additionally handles GET/POST request to access the Journal entry for the activity. Doing this work would allow us to rewrite WikiBrowse in a much cleaner fashion, and would allow a whole range of first class Web-based Sugar activities. Cheers, Wade On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > without needing to get into what is better for our deployments, I do > see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using technologies > such as HTML, CSS, etc > > Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would take > ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which would be > the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take in order > to create a Sugar activity? > > I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could create some > tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also have some > ideas about how those activities could interact with the journal and > other Sugar features. > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry wrote: > > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. > > > > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and > > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December > > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots > > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this > > spring and coming summer. > > > > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education > > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some > > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. > > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. > > > > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, > > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we > > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple > > for them to contribute. > > > > But Which Developers? > > > > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth > > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine > > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are > > technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to > > help. > > > > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for > > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the > > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, > > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system > > internals. > > > > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people > > designers. The good news is that there are lots of > > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute > > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may > > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and > > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. > > > > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, > > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers > > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the > > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing > > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even > > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies > > in a few years time. > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't take over the > > world nor will VB.net. > > > > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the difference > > that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote > > server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline > > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses > > dialects of Javascript ( > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and > > XML (MXML). > > > > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop > > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, > > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing > > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific > > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I > > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." > > > > The > href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS > Nepal community has won the award for best > celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all > this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing > open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country > and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. > > > > Open-Source is Expensive > > > > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable > > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend > > some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate > > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of > > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him > > to support them financially once he got a job. > > > > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They > > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended > > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, > > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source > > but their free time is significantly more limited. > > > > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. > > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create > > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the > > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few > > hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. > > > > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK > > activity > > framework are as follows: > > > >
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit > > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
> > > > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The > > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather > > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd > > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters > > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. > > > > I propose a new set of design goals: > > > >
    > >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities utilizing > > widely-used tools.
    2. > >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. > >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. > >
> > > > It's OK to be Opinionated > > > > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure > > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and > > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention > Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web > frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like > Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do > allow you to create nice applications very quickly. > > > > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit > > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can > > always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The > > whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it > > doesn't constrain anyone. > > > > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II > > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," > > > >
    > >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* Flash
    • > >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • > >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning activities so we > don't > > have to?
    • > >
> > > > > > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of > > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all > > things web to this article > > > > > > > > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical > > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in > > the current default activity development framework, and the urgent > > need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. > > > > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost > > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on > > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I > > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time > > I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. > > > > Let's Ride The Internet Wave > > > > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room > > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI > > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of > > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software > > industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support > > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in > > V8 javascript compiler and > > Apple's investment in > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I speculate > > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for > > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for > > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. > > > > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that > > wave of innovation. > > > > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and > > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries > > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build > > their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in > > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration > > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're > > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that > > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, > > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework > > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. > > > > Developing Country Developer Economics > > > > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing > > countries is quite different than that in the developed > > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much > > less time to contribute. > > > > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use > > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as > > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are > > much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They > > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. > > > > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement > > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their > > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes > > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web > > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your > > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities > > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a > > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible > > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from > > the more rewarding parts of activity development. > > > > Building Good KARMA > > > > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name > > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, > > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, > > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an > > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two > > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of > > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. > > > > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of > > KARMA > > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the > > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize > > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much > > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't > > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely > > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I > > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the > > developing world are web developers and a successful activity > > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. > > > > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher > > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data > > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to > > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice > > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of > > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw > > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? > > > > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to > > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" > > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of > > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the > > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but > > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar > > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules > > of Pashto grammar. > > > > Flash Ain't Open-Source > > > > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like > > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file > > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the > > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, > > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player > > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully > > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at > > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: > > Rob > > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. > > > > Javascript Isn't Ready > > > > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, > > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete > > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like > > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js > > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any > > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every > > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really > > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), > > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. > > > > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash > > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound > > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to > > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove > > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some > > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. > > > > > > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will > > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace > > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers > > happy. > > > > Building Momentum for Gnash > > > > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source > > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source > > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot > > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash > > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer > > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best > > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering > > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. > > > > Moving the Conversation Forward > > > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize > > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web > > technologies. > > > > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing > > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in > > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. > > > > > > -- > > Bryan W. Berry > > Technology Director > > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/54f25f22/attachment-0001.htm From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 14:41:58 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:41:58 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 12:46 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >> Bryan, I appreciate you raising this discussion thread. Unequivocally, >> We need to make it easier for everyone to contribute. > > Thanks for your support! > >> In regard to your essay, I think it is important in this discussion to >> make a clearer distinction between (1) the constraints on FLOSS >> development in the developing world (i.e., the need to get paid); (2) >> the tools one uses for that work (e.g., Flash vs Javascript/HTML vs >> Python); (3) the role that "educational content" providers might play >> in development (i.e., who are they and are they primarily writing >> software?); and (4) the pedagogy we are espousing (e.g., is >> constructionism the only game in town?). >> >> 1. While others have also observed that there is a need for profit in >> the developing world for software developers, this by no means >> disqualifies FLOSS development. It just means that the profit comes >> not from selling a license to a closed package, but getting paid, for >> example, by providing a service. There is not necessarily new money to >> be had and it will take time to redirect money in the system that is >> directed towards FLOSS developers. But that doesn't suggest that FLOSS >> should be abandoned. It is clear that at least for education (and >> voting), FLOSS is *the* right way. > > I am suggesting Flash because FLOSS should not exclusively be the domain > of linux programmers. > There are many FLOSS programs that run on Windows, so I guess I am not understanding your point. You mention some of them yourself: Gimp, for example. > Certainly, some programmers need to get paid but the point of my article > is that there are many developers in the developing world more than > happy to volunteer their time. Unfortunately, that time is constrained > and we need to empower them to use tools they are familiar w/ rather > than forcing them to become linux programmers. > > I agree that FLOSS is absolutely the right way. However that doesn't > mean that XYZ developer uses Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator to create a > flash activity, their resulting work can't be open-source too. > I don't think anyone is arguing that we should preclude people from using whatever tools they have at hand. >> 2. Low-cost/moderately powered hardware platforms do present some >> constraints on what tools and solutions are suitable. Other >> constraints include what skills are locally available and what rising >> tides should be exploited. HTML/Javascript is probably the >> lowest-hanging fruit, although Javascript performance on the OLPC-XO-1 >> hardware can be sluggish. But not as sluggish as Flash. It may be >> worth someone making a concerted effort to help Rob fine-tune Gnash >> (only Adobe can tune Flash) for the XO. The Sugar team will continue >> to try to lower the barriers to developing native Sugar Activities and >> putting Sugar wrappers around existing applications, be they written >> in Javascript (e.g., SocialCalc) or Python or any other environment. >> The foci are to provide ready access to the Journal and the >> collaboration mechanisms ("convention over configuration"). (Wade's >> note that arrived while I was composing this one is an example of what >> we can do as a community to help individual development efforts. > > I find that Flash runs plenty fast using the proprietary flash player. > It is only slightly slower than a pygtk app. Unfortunately, flash is > quite sluggish using Gnash by a factor of 2 or 3 if it runs at all. > > I hope that my article's appearance in olpcnews.com will spur more > developers to assist Rob on gnash. > > There is nothing in Adobe's Flash player licensing that restricts me > from installing it Nepal's default XO image. Their licensing does > restrict me from posting a software image that include the flash plugin > on the Internet. And there is nothing preventing you from using Adobe Flash if that is what you want to do, at least for the time being. >> 3. While I am thrilled that some classroom teachers are beginning to >> participate directly in the software development process (e.g., >> TurtleArt and Labyrinth), I am convinced that their major contribution >> will be more at the level of integration. There is a wonderful >> "curriculum" developed in Peru on community publishing that leverages >> Record, Write, Browse, and Chat. It didn't involve any Javascript or >> Flash, just thoughtful synthesis of the available tools. There are >> holes in our repertoire that preclude certain types of curriculum >> development: I am working on some presentation/portfolio tools, for >> example. What other holes need filling? And I am curious as to your >> experience working with teachers within the Etoys framework. Was that >> too difficult for them to master? How could we make it more >> accessible? And what are the roadblocks to developing web content for >> Sugar and/or OLPC-XOs? > > It takes a long time to train teachers to use Etoys who have never used > a computer before. Etoys _requires_ mastery of the touchpad and that was > more than we could teach in 2 weeks of training. Dragging and dropping > is a non-trivial skill. > > I think we can train teachers familiar w/ computers how to use Etoys. > Unfortunately, 95% of the teachers we deal and will deal w/ are not very > familiar w/ computers. > > This is one of the major differences b/w Nepal's deployments and those > of more developed countries like Uruguay. I presume the same thing applies to Javascript and Flash that uses drag and drop? >> 4. Constructionism is not the only way. Our strategy at Sugar Labs is >> to make a platform that encourages more constructionism in the >> learning process, but that it would be a matter of lowering the >> barriers to entry, not closing doors to other approaches. To repeat a >> well-wore analogy: you can read a book in either PDF or Wiki format, >> but the chances that the reader will make annotations, add to a >> discussion, and even add to the content are all much greater with a >> Wiki because it has the proper affordances for such interventions. >> Providing such affordances to the learning experience might be >> motivated by a specific pedagogy, but it does not preclude other >> approaches. >> >> -walter > > I love constructionism but too often we focus exclusively high-level > math and science and not "foundational" skills or art, literature, > grammar, health, etc. By foundational skills I mean basic literacy and > numeracy. Kids can't create an Etoys game until they can count properly. > They can't read the dialogues until they understand phonics properly. > > Some vocabulary has to be memorized and kids have to be able to add #'s > quickly in their head. When was the last time you reached for a > calculator to compute 5 + 5? If you did, you would work much more > slowly. > > I find that Sugar contributors from developed countries are focused more > on high-level thinking because that is a deficiency in their local > school systems. Their kids can do basic math and _usually_ know basic > grammar. Poorer countries are focused on basic numeracy and literacy. > You can't program until you can add and read. > > Countries like Peru and Brazil have schools where kids are ready to > focus on high level problems. They also probably have schools struggling > to impart basic literacy and numeracy. I don't understand the construing of constructionism with "exclusively high-level math and science" and I don't quite what you mean by "foundational skills". I don't think anyone would argue that we don't want numeracy and literacy to be "low shelf" tools in every child's repertoire, but what does this have to do with the other topics in this thread? -walter > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 14:46:03 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:46:03 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021132s7423157av3ad1cfa4267b9326@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901021132s7423157av3ad1cfa4267b9326@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1230925563.17108.81.camel@hitman> this is neat Wade. It is a little more heavy weight for some activities. both google gears, flash, and the flash framework flex have some nice lightweight persistence functionality. On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 14:32 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > The work we did for WikiBrowse (the WikipediaES and WikipediaEN) > activities would make a good starting point. > > First of all the Browse code should be integrated into Sugar. This > has been discussed before, and makes sense since you guys are > maintaining the Browse activity anyway. > > The Browse code would be provided as a base > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity class. Currently, "web-based" > activities (not content bundles) need to manually find the path to the > Browse installation (assuming there is one!) and import its modules > which feels rather hacky. > > The sugar.activity.webactivity module should also provide a WebServer > class. This class is a SimpleHTTPServer derivative which supports > iterating and finding and returning an unused local port to serve > over. The server would handle GET/POST requests to a special > '/journal/' URL prefix, allowing DHTML scripts access to the > activity's Journal entry. > > Finally, a web-activity launcher script should be created. This > script launches the Sugar Browse code and supports a variety of > command line options to control what parts of the Browse UI are > enabled, and to set the home page. It should be possible to launch a > Browse instance with nothing but the Activity toolbar for example. > > These steps will allow for three (or more!) different variations on > "web-based" activities: > > 1) Static HTML and/or DHTML ala the existing .xol system. A > collection of .html, css and .js files can be bundled as a .xo file. > The included activity.info exec line calls web-activity with > appropriate command line options. > > The advantage of this approach over .xol files is that the "web-based > activity" appears as a first class object in the Sugar UI with an > independent icon on the Home view. Further, since the > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer is used, DHTML code can > read/write from the activity's Journal entry. > > 2) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom UI. In WikiBrowse, I > subclassed WebActivity and added a new Search toolbar, which searches > the wiki DB and retrieves a page of results. This is the same as > variation 1, except instead of calling "web-activity", a new Python > activity class is derived from sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity > and modifies the UI in some way - adding toolbars, etc. > > 3) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom server. In WikiBrowse, a > custom webserver attaches to a local port and serves wiki pages. It > decompresses and formats wiki pages before serving them up as XHTML. > So in this variation, a simple Python WebServer class is derived from > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer and the appropriate page request > handing methods are added. The base WebServer class additionally > handles GET/POST request to access the Journal entry for the activity. > > Doing this work would allow us to rewrite WikiBrowse in a much cleaner > fashion, and would allow a whole range of first class Web-based Sugar > activities. > > Cheers, > Wade > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Tomeu Vizoso > wrote: > Hi, > > without needing to get into what is better for our > deployments, I do > see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using > technologies > such as HTML, CSS, etc > > Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would > take > ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which > would be > the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take > in order > to create a Sugar activity? > > I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could > create some > tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also > have some > ideas about how those activities could interact with the > journal and > other Sugar features. > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry > wrote: > > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to > OLPC News. > > > > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your > opinions and > > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once > published. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late > December > > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of > successful pilots > > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come > online this > > spring and coming summer. > > > > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our > little education > > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we > have some > > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, > and others. > > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. > > > > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, > history, > > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of > activities, we > > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it > dead-simple > > for them to contribute. > > > > But Which Developers? > > > > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking > about breadth > > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto > vocabulary, Philippine > > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there > are > > technically-oriented people out there that know these things > and want to > > help. > > > > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We > need them for > > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, > testing the > > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of > developer, > > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and > not system > > internals. > > > > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people > > designers. The good news is that there are lots of > > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to > contribute > > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK > +. They may > > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, > Javascript, and > > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. > > > > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, > the vast, > > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web > developers > > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise > of the > > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in > developing > > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even > > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI > technologies > > in a few years time. > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't > take over the > > world nor will VB.net. > > > > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the > difference > > that AJAX applications typically require communication with > a remote > > server. I propose using web technologies for completely > offline > > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX > that uses > > dialects of Javascript ( > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and > > XML (MXML). > > > > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to > write desktop > > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and > build pygtk, > > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the > developing > > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly > as prolific > > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I > > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." > > > > The > > href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS Nepal community has won the award for best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. > > > > Open-Source is Expensive > > > > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even > more valuable > > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford > to spend > > some of the most productive years of his life working > without immediate > > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without > fear of > > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were > counting on him > > to support them financially once he got a job. > > > > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those > luxuries. They > > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and > extended > > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, > Bangladeshis, Peruanos, > > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to > open-source > > but their free time is significantly more limited. > > > > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from > rich countries. > > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time > required to create > > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in > the > > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make > those few > > hours productive we need to rework the default activity > framework. > > > > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the > default PyGTK > > activity > > framework are as follows: > > > >
  1. Give the programmer maximum > flexibility
  2. Fully exploit > > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with > Sugar
> > > > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are > obvious. The > > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's > potential rather > > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the > vi/emacs crowd > > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that > the masters > > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. > > > > I propose a new set of design goals: > > > >
    > >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build > activities utilizing > > widely-used tools.
    2. > >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. > >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. > >
> > > > It's OK to be Opinionated > > > > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes > infrastructure > > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation > and > > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do allow you to create nice applications very quickly. > > > > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no > way limit > > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. > They can > > always build their own activities from whatever tools they > choose. The > > whole point of a framework is to help people get started > quickly but it > > doesn't constrain anyone. > > > > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels > from Part II > > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," > > > >
    > >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* > Flash
    • > >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • > >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning > activities so we don't > > have to?
    • > >
> > > > > > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat > co-editor of > > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge > about all > > things web to this article > > > > > > > > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical > > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, > flaws in > > the current default activity development framework, and the > urgent > > need for a new framework that makes activity designers > happy. > > > > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts > almost > > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them > focus on > > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last > time I > > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. > This time > > I will provide more details how this framework could work > and why. > > > > Let's Ride The Internet Wave > > > > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the > software-engineering room > > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite > desktop GUI > > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support > coding of > > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The > software > > industry is making huge investments into web technologies > that support > > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's > investment in > > V8 javascript > compiler and > > Apple's investment in > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I > speculate > > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI > toolkits for > > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, > Script.aculo.us-than for > > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. > > > > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to > ride that > > wave of innovation. > > > > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and > > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing > countries > > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids > would build > > their own activities, eliminating the need for large > investments in > > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in > collaboration > > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, > we're > > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank > slates that > > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. > Similarly, > > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a > framework > > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. > > > > Developing Country Developer Economics > > > > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in > developing > > countries is quite different than that in the developed > > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for > open-source but much > > less time to contribute. > > > > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order > to use > > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers > such as > > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic > designers are > > much better at designing learning activities than > programmers. They > > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. > > > > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They > implement > > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They > design their > > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes > > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the > Firefox web > > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are > your > > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl > activities > > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. > From a > > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much > as possible > > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity > designers from > > the more rewarding parts of activity development. > > > > Building Good KARMA > > > > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity > framework a name > > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it > KARMA, > > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current > residence, > > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities > gives an > > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first > two > > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put > a ton of > > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in > Nepal. > > > > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core > technologies of > > KARMA > > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get > into the > > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools > maximize > > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 > is much > > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities > that don't > > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is > purely > > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use > it. As I > > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in > the > > developing world are web developers and a successful > activity > > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills > and tools. > > > > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it > is tougher > > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data > > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy > to > > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really > nice > > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot > of > > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we > can draw > > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? > > > > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool > to > > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to > "View Source" > > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total > of > > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to > w/ the > > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken > record, but > > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto > grammar > > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn > the rules > > of Pashto grammar. > > > > Flash Ain't Open-Source > > > > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software > applications like > > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their > SWF file > > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. > However, the > > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, > Illustrator, > > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash > player > > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does > not fully > > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and > his team at > > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack > resources. Note: > > Rob > > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. > > > > Javascript Isn't Ready > > > > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. > I really, > > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could > compete > > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are > libraries like > > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js > > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there > aren't any > > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these > tools. Every > > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really > > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, > sam, etc.), > > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. > > > > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit > like Flash > > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with > sound > > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be > able to > > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. > Please prove > > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to > some > > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. > > > > > > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use > flash. I will > > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in > cyberspace > > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity > designers > > happy. > > > > Building Momentum for Gnash > > > > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully > open-source > > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving > open-source > > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We > definitely cannot > > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the > proprietary flash > > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single > developer > > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then > that the best > > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, > festering > > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. > > > > Moving the Conversation Forward > > > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for > learning > > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you > recognize > > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework > that uses web > > technologies. > > > > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences > developing > > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over > Configuration in > > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. > > > > > > -- > > Bryan W. Berry > > Technology Director > > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 14:48:33 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:48:33 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] TA with sensors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for this background. I think that the try/exception mechanism is adequate for our needs. It will be otherwise trivial for me to add the sensor features to the main branch of TA... I'll add it to the next release. I wonder if there is a mechanism we can call upon (Sugar should perhaps provide this) that will tell us that we are being sent to the background so that we can only reinitialize when we go away and come back? It seems that for every call to the sensor, it is a large overhead to incur... -walter On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > Hello Walter, > > Thank you for the new year wishes. Best wishes to you too for the new > year! (hope you received my card too) > > A few points regarding adding sensor support > > * Calls to Alsamixer to set the DC mode on/off will result in an > exception on one's normal laptop. This is because the DC mode controls > don't exist in the Alsamixer of a normal laptop (even sugar emulation > makes calls to the laptop's default alsamixer) > > * I had put in initializations before each call to the sensor because > - user may switch to another Activity in between a session of Turtle > Art -- the other Activity may use the laptop's sound device. The > other Activity may alter the sound device settings. > - unless a call for sensor input is being made, I didn't want to keep > the capture device active. > The capture device can be thought to be in a state of 'recording > sound' when one is getting sensor input data, hence only one > Activity/program can have access to it at one time. > However, any suggestions you may have on the above implementation > would be very welcome. > > > * If it helps, I am summarizing approximately the changes I made in > TurtleArt to add sensor support and some relevant lines to look at > within the TA with Sensors code that I had made for the earlier (non > SVG version of TAwithSensors): > Referring to the version of the online git tree ('Initial import') > (http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree;h=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465;hb=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465) > > - audiograb.py as an additional file was included completely > - talogo.py : > (note that lines 8 and 9 in this version of git tree would need to be > changed to > from numpy.oldnumeric import * > from numpy.fft import * ) > lines 8,9,11,12 were added > lines 366 onwards till the end have been added > -tasetup.py: lines 47 to 51 to account for the additional sensor > blocks in the UI > > As you can see from the code of talogo.py , the approach involves a > lot of painful starting the whole gstreamer pipeline, getting one > sample then stopping the pipeline. An overkill for getting just one > sample, but there is no way unless python alsa audio is included in > the build system. The approach with python alsa audio is work in > progress here ( > http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree ) > > I want to work on incorporating sensor support into the SVG version of > TA that you have made, but my current day job isn't leaving me any > time these days to do anything else. I will get to it as soon as I get > the opportunity, but if in the meanwhile you get a chance to do it - > it'd be great. > > Please let me know if I can help further. > > Kind Regards > Arjun > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >> >> I've begun folding TA with sensors into TA. I use an exception to >> catch the calls to set DC Mode in Alsamixer, so it seems to run fine >> on my normal laptop using the mic input. But when I look at the logs, >> it seems that there is a lot of initialization that happens with every >> call to the sensor. Is that all necessary? Can we just check for >> changes after the first time? >> >> -walter >> >> >> >> # test to see if DC Mode is enabled >> try: >> self.dcmode = Mixer('DC Mode Enable') >> self.bias = Mixer('V_REFOUT Enable') >> self.has_dcmode = True >> except: >> print "DC Mode unavailable" >> self.has_dcmode = False >> >> >> >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org > > > > -- > Arjun Sarwal > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 14:53:28 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:53:28 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <1230926008.17108.89.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 14:41 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > >> 2. Low-cost/moderately powered hardware platforms do present some > >> constraints on what tools and solutions are suitable. Other > >> constraints include what skills are locally available and what rising > >> tides should be exploited. HTML/Javascript is probably the > >> lowest-hanging fruit, although Javascript performance on the OLPC-XO-1 > >> hardware can be sluggish. But not as sluggish as Flash. It may be > >> worth someone making a concerted effort to help Rob fine-tune Gnash > >> (only Adobe can tune Flash) for the XO. The Sugar team will continue > >> to try to lower the barriers to developing native Sugar Activities and > >> putting Sugar wrappers around existing applications, be they written > >> in Javascript (e.g., SocialCalc) or Python or any other environment. > >> The foci are to provide ready access to the Journal and the > >> collaboration mechanisms ("convention over configuration"). (Wade's > >> note that arrived while I was composing this one is an example of what > >> we can do as a community to help individual development efforts. > > > > I find that Flash runs plenty fast using the proprietary flash player. > > It is only slightly slower than a pygtk app. Unfortunately, flash is > > quite sluggish using Gnash by a factor of 2 or 3 if it runs at all. > > > > I hope that my article's appearance in olpcnews.com will spur more > > developers to assist Rob on gnash. > > > > There is nothing in Adobe's Flash player licensing that restricts me > > from installing it Nepal's default XO image. Their licensing does > > restrict me from posting a software image that include the flash plugin > > on the Internet. > > And there is nothing preventing you from using Adobe Flash if that is > what you want to do, at least for the time being. > > >> 3. While I am thrilled that some classroom teachers are beginning to > >> participate directly in the software development process (e.g., > >> TurtleArt and Labyrinth), I am convinced that their major contribution > >> will be more at the level of integration. There is a wonderful > >> "curriculum" developed in Peru on community publishing that leverages > >> Record, Write, Browse, and Chat. It didn't involve any Javascript or > >> Flash, just thoughtful synthesis of the available tools. There are > >> holes in our repertoire that preclude certain types of curriculum > >> development: I am working on some presentation/portfolio tools, for > >> example. What other holes need filling? And I am curious as to your > >> experience working with teachers within the Etoys framework. Was that > >> too difficult for them to master? How could we make it more > >> accessible? And what are the roadblocks to developing web content for > >> Sugar and/or OLPC-XOs? > > > > It takes a long time to train teachers to use Etoys who have never used > > a computer before. Etoys _requires_ mastery of the touchpad and that was > > more than we could teach in 2 weeks of training. Dragging and dropping > > is a non-trivial skill. > > > > I think we can train teachers familiar w/ computers how to use Etoys. > > Unfortunately, 95% of the teachers we deal and will deal w/ are not very > > familiar w/ computers. > > > > This is one of the major differences b/w Nepal's deployments and those > > of more developed countries like Uruguay. > > I presume the same thing applies to Javascript and Flash that uses > drag and drop? It is does if you require a lot of dragging-and-dropping together w/ right-clicking. For example, our teachers got the hang of Draw during training but they struggled w/ Etoys. They could do point-click-activities like GCompris, E-Paath, Maze, etc. w/out a problem > >> 4. Constructionism is not the only way. Our strategy at Sugar Labs is > >> to make a platform that encourages more constructionism in the > >> learning process, but that it would be a matter of lowering the > >> barriers to entry, not closing doors to other approaches. To repeat a > >> well-wore analogy: you can read a book in either PDF or Wiki format, > >> but the chances that the reader will make annotations, add to a > >> discussion, and even add to the content are all much greater with a > >> Wiki because it has the proper affordances for such interventions. > >> Providing such affordances to the learning experience might be > >> motivated by a specific pedagogy, but it does not preclude other > >> approaches. > >> > >> -walter > > > > I love constructionism but too often we focus exclusively high-level > > math and science and not "foundational" skills or art, literature, > > grammar, health, etc. By foundational skills I mean basic literacy and > > numeracy. Kids can't create an Etoys game until they can count properly. > > They can't read the dialogues until they understand phonics properly. > > > > Some vocabulary has to be memorized and kids have to be able to add #'s > > quickly in their head. When was the last time you reached for a > > calculator to compute 5 + 5? If you did, you would work much more > > slowly. > > > > I find that Sugar contributors from developed countries are focused more > > on high-level thinking because that is a deficiency in their local > > school systems. Their kids can do basic math and _usually_ know basic > > grammar. Poorer countries are focused on basic numeracy and literacy. > > You can't program until you can add and read. > > > > Countries like Peru and Brazil have schools where kids are ready to > > focus on high level problems. They also probably have schools struggling > > to impart basic literacy and numeracy. > > I don't understand the construing of constructionism with "exclusively > high-level math and science" and I don't quite what you mean by > "foundational skills". I don't think anyone would argue that we don't > want numeracy and literacy to be "low shelf" tools in every child's > repertoire, but what does this have to do with the other topics in > this thread? > It has to do w/ this thread because it is easy to create simple animations using Flash but hard to add collaboration and "View Source." I am trying to make the point that a lot of activities don't need those features in order to be very effective. > > -- > > Bryan W. Berry > > Technology Director > > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > > > > > > -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 14:54:53 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:54:53 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > I don't think anyone is arguing that we should preclude people from > using whatever tools they have at hand. > I think the question is how well the Sugar community *supports* using using a particular tool (Flash, Javascript) by making it convenient, not whether they are precluded. This is more an allocation of resources question than a philosophical one. > I find that Sugar contributors from developed countries are focused more > > on high-level thinking because that is a deficiency in their local > > school systems. Their kids can do basic math and _usually_ know basic > > grammar. Poorer countries are focused on basic numeracy and literacy. > > You can't program until you can add and read. > > > > Countries like Peru and Brazil have schools where kids are ready to > > focus on high level problems. They also probably have schools struggling > > to impart basic literacy and numeracy. > > I don't understand the construing of constructionism with "exclusively > high-level math and science" and I don't quite what you mean by > "foundational skills". I don't think anyone would argue that we don't > want numeracy and literacy to be "low shelf" tools in every child's > repertoire, but what does this have to do with the other topics in > this thread? I read this as saying that the constructivist activities that have been developed *so far* by programmers in developed countries tend to focus on high level concept learning rather than foundational skills. And I agree with this statement. I'm currently working on Typing Turtle, a typing trainer for the XO. One could say "they have Write and Chat, they will learn how to type" - that would be a constructivist approach. I feel like there is a need for more focused training of fundamental 'low shelf' skills, that's why I'm working on that particular activity. -Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/a4c1b21e/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 15:00:08 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:00:08 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <1230925563.17108.81.camel@hitman> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901021132s7423157av3ad1cfa4267b9326@mail.gmail.com> <1230925563.17108.81.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021200g40a5c9f9s86a5f1a5d1224d4e@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure about Gears, but I have worked with the Flash persistence stuff before - you're right, it's quite convenient. It would be great to build support for finding the storage file and copying it to/from the Journal. It could even be done automatically by the WebActivity class (or else a separate FlashActivity class if we want to avoid loading Firefox) class, making it transparent to the Flash programmer. -Wade On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > this is neat Wade. > > It is a little more heavy weight for some activities. both google gears, > flash, and the flash framework flex have some nice lightweight > persistence functionality. > > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 14:32 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > The work we did for WikiBrowse (the WikipediaES and WikipediaEN) > > activities would make a good starting point. > > > > First of all the Browse code should be integrated into Sugar. This > > has been discussed before, and makes sense since you guys are > > maintaining the Browse activity anyway. > > > > The Browse code would be provided as a base > > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity class. Currently, "web-based" > > activities (not content bundles) need to manually find the path to the > > Browse installation (assuming there is one!) and import its modules > > which feels rather hacky. > > > > The sugar.activity.webactivity module should also provide a WebServer > > class. This class is a SimpleHTTPServer derivative which supports > > iterating and finding and returning an unused local port to serve > > over. The server would handle GET/POST requests to a special > > '/journal/' URL prefix, allowing DHTML scripts access to the > > activity's Journal entry. > > > > Finally, a web-activity launcher script should be created. This > > script launches the Sugar Browse code and supports a variety of > > command line options to control what parts of the Browse UI are > > enabled, and to set the home page. It should be possible to launch a > > Browse instance with nothing but the Activity toolbar for example. > > > > These steps will allow for three (or more!) different variations on > > "web-based" activities: > > > > 1) Static HTML and/or DHTML ala the existing .xol system. A > > collection of .html, css and .js files can be bundled as a .xo file. > > The included activity.info exec line calls web-activity with > > appropriate command line options. > > > > The advantage of this approach over .xol files is that the "web-based > > activity" appears as a first class object in the Sugar UI with an > > independent icon on the Home view. Further, since the > > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer is used, DHTML code can > > read/write from the activity's Journal entry. > > > > 2) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom UI. In WikiBrowse, I > > subclassed WebActivity and added a new Search toolbar, which searches > > the wiki DB and retrieves a page of results. This is the same as > > variation 1, except instead of calling "web-activity", a new Python > > activity class is derived from sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity > > and modifies the UI in some way - adding toolbars, etc. > > > > 3) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom server. In WikiBrowse, a > > custom webserver attaches to a local port and serves wiki pages. It > > decompresses and formats wiki pages before serving them up as XHTML. > > So in this variation, a simple Python WebServer class is derived from > > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer and the appropriate page request > > handing methods are added. The base WebServer class additionally > > handles GET/POST request to access the Journal entry for the activity. > > > > Doing this work would allow us to rewrite WikiBrowse in a much cleaner > > fashion, and would allow a whole range of first class Web-based Sugar > > activities. > > > > Cheers, > > Wade > > > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Tomeu Vizoso > > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > without needing to get into what is better for our > > deployments, I do > > see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using > > technologies > > such as HTML, CSS, etc > > > > Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would > > take > > ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which > > would be > > the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take > > in order > > to create a Sugar activity? > > > > I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could > > create some > > tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also > > have some > > ideas about how those activities could interact with the > > journal and > > other Sugar features. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tomeu > > > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry > > wrote: > > > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to > > OLPC News. > > > > > > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your > > opinions and > > > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once > > published. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late > > December > > > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of > > successful pilots > > > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come > > online this > > > spring and coming summer. > > > > > > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our > > little education > > > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we > > have some > > > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, > > and others. > > > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. > > > > > > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, > > history, > > > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of > > activities, we > > > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it > > dead-simple > > > for them to contribute. > > > > > > But Which Developers? > > > > > > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking > > about breadth > > > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto > > vocabulary, Philippine > > > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there > > are > > > technically-oriented people out there that know these things > > and want to > > > help. > > > > > > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We > > need them for > > > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, > > testing the > > > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of > > developer, > > > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and > > not system > > > internals. > > > > > > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people > > > designers. The good news is that there are lots of > > > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to > > contribute > > > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK > > +. They may > > > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, > > Javascript, and > > > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. > > > > > > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, > > the vast, > > > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web > > developers > > > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise > > of the > > > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in > > developing > > > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even > > > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI > > technologies > > > in a few years time. > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't > > take over the > > > world nor will VB.net. > > > > > > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the > > difference > > > that AJAX applications typically require communication with > > a remote > > > server. I propose using web technologies for completely > > offline > > > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX > > that uses > > > dialects of Javascript ( > > > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) > and > > > XML (MXML). > > > > > > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to > > write desktop > > > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and > > build pygtk, > > > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the > > developing > > > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly > > as prolific > > > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I > > > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." > > > > > > The > > > > href=" > http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS > Nepal community has won the award for best > celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all > this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing > open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country > and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. > > > > > > Open-Source is Expensive > > > > > > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even > > more valuable > > > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford > > to spend > > > some of the most productive years of his life working > > without immediate > > > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without > > fear of > > > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were > > counting on him > > > to support them financially once he got a job. > > > > > > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those > > luxuries. They > > > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and > > extended > > > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, > > Bangladeshis, Peruanos, > > > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to > > open-source > > > but their free time is significantly more limited. > > > > > > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from > > rich countries. > > > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time > > required to create > > > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in > > the > > > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make > > those few > > > hours productive we need to rework the default activity > > framework. > > > > > > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the > > default PyGTK > > > activity > > > framework are as follows: > > > > > >
  1. Give the programmer maximum > > flexibility
  2. Fully exploit > > > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with > > Sugar
> > > > > > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are > > obvious. The > > > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's > > potential rather > > > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the > > vi/emacs crowd > > > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that > > the masters > > > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. > > > > > > I propose a new set of design goals: > > > > > >
    > > >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build > > activities utilizing > > > widely-used tools.
    2. > > >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. > > >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. > > >
> > > > > > It's OK to be Opinionated > > > > > > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes > > infrastructure > > > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation > > and > > > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of > > > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention > Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web > frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like > Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do > allow you to create nice applications very quickly. > > > > > > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no > > way limit > > > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. > > They can > > > always build their own activities from whatever tools they > > choose. The > > > whole point of a framework is to help people get started > > quickly but it > > > doesn't constrain anyone. > > > > > > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels > > from Part II > > > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," > > > > > >
    > > >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* > > Flash
    • > > >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • > > >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning > > activities so we don't > > > have to?
    • > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of > > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat > > co-editor of > > > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge > > about all > > > things web to this article > > > > > > > > > > > > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical > > > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, > > flaws in > > > the current default activity development framework, and the > > urgent > > > need for a new framework that makes activity designers > > happy. > > > > > > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts > > almost > > > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them > > focus on > > > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last > > time I > > > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. > > This time > > > I will provide more details how this framework could work > > and why. > > > > > > Let's Ride The Internet Wave > > > > > > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the > > software-engineering room > > > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite > > desktop GUI > > > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support > > coding of > > > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The > > software > > > industry is making huge investments into web technologies > > that support > > > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's > > investment in > > > V8 javascript > > compiler and > > > Apple's investment in > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I > > speculate > > > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI > > toolkits for > > > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, > > Script.aculo.us-than for > > > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. > > > > > > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to > > ride that > > > wave of innovation. > > > > > > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and > > > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing > > countries > > > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids > > would build > > > their own activities, eliminating the need for large > > investments in > > > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in > > collaboration > > > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, > > we're > > > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank > > slates that > > > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. > > Similarly, > > > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a > > framework > > > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. > > > > > > Developing Country Developer Economics > > > > > > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in > > developing > > > countries is quite different than that in the developed > > > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for > > open-source but much > > > less time to contribute. > > > > > > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order > > to use > > > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers > > such as > > > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic > > designers are > > > much better at designing learning activities than > > programmers. They > > > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. > > > > > > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They > > implement > > > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They > > design their > > > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes > > > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the > > Firefox web > > > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are > > your > > > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl > > activities > > > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. > > From a > > > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much > > as possible > > > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity > > designers from > > > the more rewarding parts of activity development. > > > > > > Building Good KARMA > > > > > > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity > > framework a name > > > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it > > KARMA, > > > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current > > residence, > > > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities > > gives an > > > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first > > two > > > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put > > a ton of > > > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in > > Nepal. > > > > > > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core > > technologies of > > > KARMA > > > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get > > into the > > > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools > > maximize > > > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 > > is much > > > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities > > that don't > > > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is > > purely > > > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use > > it. As I > > > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in > > the > > > developing world are web developers and a successful > > activity > > > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills > > and tools. > > > > > > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it > > is tougher > > > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data > > > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy > > to > > > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really > > nice > > > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot > > of > > > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we > > can draw > > > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? > > > > > > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool > > to > > > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to > > "View Source" > > > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total > > of > > > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to > > w/ the > > > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken > > record, but > > > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto > > grammar > > > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn > > the rules > > > of Pashto grammar. > > > > > > Flash Ain't Open-Source > > > > > > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software > > applications like > > > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their > > SWF file > > > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. > > However, the > > > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, > > Illustrator, > > > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash > > player > > > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does > > not fully > > > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and > > his team at > > > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack > > resources. Note: > > > Rob > > > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. > > > > > > Javascript Isn't Ready > > > > > > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. > > I really, > > > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could > > compete > > > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are > > libraries like > > > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js > > > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there > > aren't any > > > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these > > tools. Every > > > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really > > > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, > > sam, etc.), > > > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. > > > > > > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit > > like Flash > > > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with > > sound > > > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be > > able to > > > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. > > Please prove > > > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to > > some > > > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. > > > > > > > > > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use > > flash. I will > > > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in > > cyberspace > > > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity > > designers > > > happy. > > > > > > Building Momentum for Gnash > > > > > > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully > > open-source > > > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving > > open-source > > > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We > > definitely cannot > > > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the > > proprietary flash > > > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single > > developer > > > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then > > that the best > > > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, > > festering > > > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. > > > > > > Moving the Conversation Forward > > > > > > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for > > learning > > > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you > > recognize > > > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework > > that uses web > > > technologies. > > > > > > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences > > developing > > > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over > > Configuration in > > > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Bryan W. Berry > > > Technology Director > > > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > > > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/ad693221/attachment-0001.htm From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 15:10:09 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:10:09 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 14:54 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: I don't understand the construing of constructionism with "exclusively > high-level math and science" and I don't quite what you mean > by > "foundational skills". I don't think anyone would argue that > we don't > want numeracy and literacy to be "low shelf" tools in every > child's > repertoire, but what does this have to do with the other > topics in > this thread? > > I read this as saying that the constructivist activities that have > been developed *so far* by programmers in developed countries tend to > focus on high level concept learning rather than foundational skills. > And I agree with this statement. > I'm currently working on Typing Turtle, a typing trainer for the XO. > One could say "they have Write and Chat, they will learn how to type" > - that would be a constructivist approach. I feel like there is a > need for more focused training of fundamental 'low shelf' skills, > that's why I'm working on that particular activity. The Typing Turtle will be immensely useful and immensely popular in Nepal. A typing tutor is one of the most frequently requested programs by the Nepali kids and teachers alike. Thanks alot to Wade for working on it. While no one is arguing that basic literacy and numeracy are less important, there are far fewer activities addressing them. Most focus on higher-level skills. Sometimes I feel there is an attitude that kids will "just learn" counting or reading by using Etoys or another program. I don't believe that will happen for a lot of kids. Also, too often we focus on empowering the smart kids in the class. This project is about mass education. Helping the vast majority of kids is the real point, not just the superlative ones. Case in point, some of the sharper kids at Bishwamitra school think a lot of the E-Paath math activities are lame and boring. The academically weaker kids love them and do them over and over until they master them. These are 6th graders who until recently couldn't count properly. Those students initially had trouble w/ some of our math problems for grade 2. Some kids may learn basic math and reading so they can go straight to using TurtleArt. They may hate simple math and language lessons. A lot of kids won't be able to go straight TurtleArt. We need to think about them as well. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 15:18:59 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 14:54 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > I don't understand the construing of constructionism with "exclusively >> high-level math and science" and I don't quite what you mean >> by >> "foundational skills". I don't think anyone would argue that >> we don't >> want numeracy and literacy to be "low shelf" tools in every >> child's >> repertoire, but what does this have to do with the other >> topics in >> this thread? >> >> I read this as saying that the constructivist activities that have >> been developed *so far* by programmers in developed countries tend to >> focus on high level concept learning rather than foundational skills. >> And I agree with this statement. >> I'm currently working on Typing Turtle, a typing trainer for the XO. >> One could say "they have Write and Chat, they will learn how to type" >> - that would be a constructivist approach. I feel like there is a >> need for more focused training of fundamental 'low shelf' skills, >> that's why I'm working on that particular activity. > > The Typing Turtle will be immensely useful and immensely popular in > Nepal. A typing tutor is one of the most frequently requested programs > by the Nepali kids and teachers alike. Thanks alot to Wade for working > on it. > > While no one is arguing that basic literacy and numeracy are less > important, there are far fewer activities addressing them. Most focus on > higher-level skills. Sometimes I feel there is an attitude that kids > will "just learn" counting or reading by using Etoys or another program. > I don't believe that will happen for a lot of kids. > > Also, too often we focus on empowering the smart kids in the class. This > project is about mass education. Helping the vast majority of kids is > the real point, not just the superlative ones. > > Case in point, some of the sharper kids at Bishwamitra school think a > lot of the E-Paath math activities are lame and boring. The academically > weaker kids love them and do them over and over until they master them. > These are 6th graders who until recently couldn't count properly. Those > students initially had trouble w/ some of our math problems for grade > 2. > > Some kids may learn basic math and reading so they can go straight to > using TurtleArt. They may hate simple math and language lessons. A lot > of kids won't be able to go straight TurtleArt. We need to think about > them as well. > > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > I think we have consensus on three issues: (1) We should try to support better integration of more development environments into Sugar (e.g., cookbook Flash and Javascript support of the Journal); (2) We should encourage Activity developers (regardless of their choice of development environment) to avoid extensive use of drag-and-drop (I'll try to eat my own dogfood with TurtleArt); (3) We need lots more Activities. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 15:22:21 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:22:21 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <1230927741.17108.105.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > I think we have consensus on three issues: > > (1) We should try to support better integration of more development > environments into Sugar (e.g., cookbook Flash and Javascript support > of the Journal); > (2) We should encourage Activity developers (regardless of their > choice of development environment) to avoid extensive use of > drag-and-drop (I'll try to eat my own dogfood with TurtleArt); > (3) We need lots more Activities. > > -walter +1 -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 15:25:13 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:25:13 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > (3) We need lots more Activities. While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 15:49:28 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:49:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021249x42501d6eu79a5974439418861@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > > > (3) We need lots more Activities. > > While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the > best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more > developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. There is a related point regarding Sugar idealism. Sugar was designed with a very specific notion of what an activity: collaborative, constructivist, stores in the Journal, view source, written in PyGTK using the supplied frameworks. The current inability to run Flash, Javascript or even GTK programs under Sugar is linked to this initial choice. More recently, a consensus seems to have developed that it is worthwhile to include less "ideal" activities, in the name of having those activities at all. I think it is worth recognizing this change so as to encourage related development efforts. -Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/c1595b69/attachment.htm From michael at laptop.org Fri Jan 2 15:52:51 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:52:51 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> References: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:25:13PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: >On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > >> (3) We need lots more Activities. > >While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the >best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more >developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. I see some orthogonal proposals at work: a) supply better compatibility with existing X11 apps. b) offer genuine support for popular software platforms (e.g. flash and java?) even on space-constrained hardware platforms like the XO. c) catalyze the creation and improvement of free authoring and remixing environments for popular mime-types uncovered by existing free offerings or the available environments are unusable on the available hardware Consequently, it seems to me that the most useful political discussion we can have now is over how to work through the obvious conflict between the "libre" folks and the "usability" folks. Thoughts? Michael P.S. - (By all means, please continue the practical idea-by-idea brainstorming occuring on Tomeu's thread in parallel with this meta-thread!) From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 16:01:34 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:01:34 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> References: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:25:13PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: >> >> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >> >>> (3) We need lots more Activities. >> >> While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the >> best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more >> developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. > > I see some orthogonal proposals at work: > a) supply better compatibility with existing X11 apps. > > b) offer genuine support for popular software platforms (e.g. flash > and java?) even on space-constrained hardware platforms like the > XO. > > c) catalyze the creation and improvement of free authoring and > remixing environments for popular mime-types uncovered by existing > free offerings or the available environments are unusable on the > available hardware > > Consequently, it seems to me that the most useful political discussion > we can have now is over how to work through the obvious conflict between > the "libre" folks and the "usability" folks. Thoughts? I guess I am slow. Can you spell out this "obvious" conflict in the context of this discussion? > > Michael > > P.S. - (By all means, please continue the practical idea-by-idea > brainstorming occuring on Tomeu's thread in parallel with this > meta-thread!) > -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From bryan at olenepal.org Fri Jan 2 17:28:16 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 14:28:16 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activity prototypes In-Reply-To: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1230935296.32208.8.camel@hitman> You can view the flash-based activities OLE Nepal is developing in your regular web browser. We have them stored in our online E-LIbrary http://www.pustakalaya.org/external-content/static/epaath/E-Paath-2.activity/activity/Activity/MenuStage.html 1) Click on a grade in the upper-lefthand corner and the subject on right hand pane. then the weeks appear 2) Click on a Week and the activities should appear 3) The activity launches in a separate FF window 4) Click the text in the middle to start the lesson -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From michael at laptop.org Fri Jan 2 17:52:06 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:52:06 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> Message-ID: <20090102225206.GH3164@didacte.laptop.org> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 04:01:34PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael Stone wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:25:13PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >>> >>>> (3) We need lots more Activities. >>> >>> While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the >>> best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more >>> developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. >> >> I see some orthogonal proposals at work: >> a) supply better compatibility with existing X11 apps. >> >> b) offer genuine support for popular software platforms (e.g. flash >> and java?) even on space-constrained hardware platforms like the >> XO. >> >> c) catalyze the creation and improvement of free authoring and >> remixing environments for popular mime-types uncovered by existing >> free offerings or the available environments are unusable on the >> available hardware >> >> Consequently, it seems to me that the most useful political discussion >> we can have now is over how to work through the obvious conflict between >> the "libre" folks and the "usability" folks. Thoughts? > >I guess I am slow. Can you spell out this "obvious" conflict in the >context of this discussion? Sure. Basically, I think we're in an iterated prisoner's dilemma situation. The dilemma arises from the facts that a) Sugar exists in both one global and myriad local environments and b) Pairs of people frequently have access to resources which they are unable to share; e.g. expertise, time, or non-redistributable code. Fact (a) affords us a range of strategies during each iteration varying between the hypothetical extremes of "acting locally" and "acting globally". Fact (b) means that acting locally frequently affords us payoffs which cannot be shared with our partners in the game or which are actively detrimental to those other players. The situation is iterated because we seem to have to make decisions along these lines every month or so. The connection to the "libre" vs "usability" dichotomy that I mentioned above is that I see the "libre" folks as asking all players to choose strategies which optimize "global" payoffs at the (great) expense of "local" payoffs; and vice-versa for the "usability" folks. Does this explanation help clarify things for you? Would a different metaphor be more helpful? Regards, Michael From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 18:12:40 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:12:40 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <20090102225206.GH3164@didacte.laptop.org> References: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> <20090102225206.GH3164@didacte.laptop.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 04:01:34PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Michael Stone wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:25:13PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >>>> >>>>> (3) We need lots more Activities. >>>> >>>> While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the >>>> best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more >>>> developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. >>> >>> I see some orthogonal proposals at work: >>> a) supply better compatibility with existing X11 apps. >>> >>> b) offer genuine support for popular software platforms (e.g. flash >>> and java?) even on space-constrained hardware platforms like the >>> XO. >>> >>> c) catalyze the creation and improvement of free authoring and >>> remixing environments for popular mime-types uncovered by existing >>> free offerings or the available environments are unusable on the >>> available hardware >>> >>> Consequently, it seems to me that the most useful political discussion >>> we can have now is over how to work through the obvious conflict between >>> the "libre" folks and the "usability" folks. Thoughts? >> >> I guess I am slow. Can you spell out this "obvious" conflict in the >> context of this discussion? > > Sure. Basically, I think we're in an iterated prisoner's dilemma > situation. The dilemma arises from the facts that > a) Sugar exists in both one global and myriad local environments and > > b) Pairs of people frequently have access to resources which they are > unable to share; e.g. expertise, time, or non-redistributable code. > > Fact (a) affords us a range of strategies during each iteration varying > between the hypothetical extremes of "acting locally" and "acting > globally". > > Fact (b) means that acting locally frequently affords us payoffs which > cannot be shared with our partners in the game or which are actively > detrimental to those other players. > > The situation is iterated because we seem to have to make decisions > along these lines every month or so. > > The connection to the "libre" vs "usability" dichotomy that I mentioned > above is that I see the "libre" folks as asking all players to choose > strategies which optimize "global" payoffs at the (great) expense of > "local" payoffs; and vice-versa for the "usability" folks. > > Does this explanation help clarify things for you? Would a different > metaphor be more helpful? > > Regards, > > Michael > Thanks. This is helpful. But I wonder (1) if these sort of dichotomies occur "frequently" and (2) to what extent they incur "great" expense. Presumably the 2007 decision to not aggressively pursue Flash support on the laptop is an example of a choice in the "libre" category? (Although, at the time, the decision was driven as much by some pragmatic integration concerns as by ideology.) And the decision to use a GNU/Linux distribution as oppose to XP (we would have had to have designed a different laptop had we gone down that path). But this is water that is over the dam, not a recurring theme. There have been local decisions that have incurred "expense", e.g. Uruguay made changes to the base image (not many that are relevant to Sugar) due to the needs of their deployments. But this had nothing to do with "libre" vs. "usability." Bryan's point about drag-and-drop and the lack of applications addressing "fundamentals" don't seem to be correlated to this dichotomy. Can you please cite a few examples to help ground me further? -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Fri Jan 2 18:55:06 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:55:06 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO (was: Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:10:09PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: > The Typing Turtle will be immensely useful and immensely popular in > Nepal. A typing tutor is one of the most frequently requested programs > by the Nepali kids and teachers alike. Thanks alot to Wade for working > on it. Have you tried TuxType/TuxTyping [1] and (a recent version of) TuxMath? There's no XO bundle for them yet, but if they fit your needs, you might try asking Albert Calahan. He seems to have done the TuxPaint [2] bundle [3,5] (all three programs are from the same project - Tux4Kids [4]). [1] http://tuxtype.sourceforge.net/ [2] http://www.tuxpaint.org/ [3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tux_Paint [4] http://tux4kids.alioth.debian.org/ [5] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090103/109297e4/attachment.pgp From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 19:20:05 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:20:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO (was: Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> If you have used TuxType, you will know that it's a simplistic typing *practice game* and in no way teaches the user how to type. That said, there are typing programs out there that could work. I just wanted to make a nice one for Sugar. -Wade On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Sascha Silbe < sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:10:09PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: > > The Typing Turtle will be immensely useful and immensely popular in >> Nepal. A typing tutor is one of the most frequently requested programs >> by the Nepali kids and teachers alike. Thanks alot to Wade for working >> on it. >> > Have you tried TuxType/TuxTyping [1] and (a recent version of) TuxMath? > There's no XO bundle for them yet, but if they fit your needs, you might > try asking Albert Calahan. He seems to have done the TuxPaint [2] bundle > [3,5] (all three programs are from the same project - Tux4Kids [4]). > > > [1] http://tuxtype.sourceforge.net/ > [2] http://www.tuxpaint.org/ > [3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tux_Paint > [4] http://tux4kids.alioth.debian.org/ > [5] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSV6pWrpz82VMF3DaAQLL0gf/c8N5HvCAiuM8vNC9TIn5rb5afUtJCb2M > pzWMSDDBQYpRQniwi04qgS7exVh0OlYFficKrrZni9dAEVL582zRGzCHVmP7RIda > 5PLpA5UOcgQIjGvoyeiBO+yhdx540kmsPU0UWzE7ZQEdAwdJUnlgF5aB/L0pT8H+ > /0hdMbR1uHrServp6EPikvmkq95lWTf78YR3cLcKjmBF7gvxHNVv5mtFEb5HvbfG > SF5lmxNSFWojx7LrHYYA7EArO7vMDvK25sYTofBTZ32cml3egGH6SqPgRW7MiUGj > nRmjfYba2Z9FE9AhQsyUkUZUNyqT6sbcrff2zMbJLW5/LIbfQ5gXfw== > =cZiZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/f05e768a/attachment.htm From michael at laptop.org Fri Jan 2 19:25:19 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:25:19 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: References: <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> <20090102225206.GH3164@didacte.laptop.org> Message-ID: <20090103002519.GI3164@didacte.laptop.org> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 06:12:40PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > Can you please cite a few examples to help ground me further? Let's try: * the Etoys/Debian fight? * the F6/F7 timeframe Java fight? * the Debian/Fedora fight? (and the Ubuntu/Debian fight?) * the activity packaging formats fight? * the initscripts fight? * the vserver fight? * the libertas fight(s)? * the Bitfrost/____ fight? * the Journal/file manager fight? * the livecd-tools / pilgrim+puritan fight? * the stock vs. patched kernel fight? * the UY, ET, and NE modification fights? * deciding how and where to seek donations to OLPC (or alternately, to market and sell XOs, depending on your perspective). >(2) to what extent they incur "great" expense. I agree that it's hard to measure. (I still think it's worth trying to think about.) The most significant factor seems to be whether and how you count opportunity costs. Three random examples: * The early Smalltalk vs. Python arguments * Bryan's point about choosing a PyGTK stack vs. a Javascript-ish stack * Fedora vs. Debian > Presumably the 2007 decision to not aggressively pursue Flash support > on the laptop is an example of a choice in the "libre" category? I'm counting it as such. > (Although, at the time, the decision was driven as much by some > pragmatic integration concerns as by ideology.) As with some current debates about key autonomy, the ideological battle strongly influences our willingness to do the implementation/integration work. >And the decision to use a GNU/Linux distribution as oppose to XP (we >would have had to have designed a different laptop had we gone down >that path). Yes. >But this is water that is over the dam, not a recurring theme. It seems to me to be a recurring theme for OLPC; perhaps Sugar Labs will do better. > There have been local decisions that have incurred "expense", e.g. > Uruguay made changes to the base image (not many that are relevant to > Sugar) due to the needs of their deployments. As I see it, it had everything to do with exploiting local opportunities vs. "acting globally". "Libre"-ness is just one reason that a _few_ people (who are active here) seem to put forward for why we _shouldn't_ exploit those purely local opportunities. > But this had nothing to do with "libre" vs. "usability." "libre"-prizing and "usability"-prizing are just contingent attitudes which seem to me to bias people towards optimizing for specific locales (including, occasionally, the global one). Lots of other contingent attitudes have the same effect. I brought up "libre" and "usability" because they seemed to me to be prominent in the current thread. >Bryan's point about drag-and-drop and the lack of applications >addressing "fundamentals" don't seem to be correlated to this >dichotomy. Correct -- it's an interesting and worthwhile but unrelated criticism of the status quo. Michael P.S. - Please let me know if you'd like to me to try to analyze some of the examples I suggested in more detail, e.g. if it's unclear what I mean, why I think they're relevant, or if you're bothered by the fact that they can be interpreted in several valid ways. From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 20:34:43 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 20:34:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <20090103002519.GI3164@didacte.laptop.org> References: <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> <20090102205251.GG3164@didacte.laptop.org> <20090102225206.GH3164@didacte.laptop.org> <20090103002519.GI3164@didacte.laptop.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021734h595ea865we37b5eaf93936ff@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 06:12:40PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > > Can you please cite a few examples to help ground me further? > > Let's try: > > * the Etoys/Debian fight? > * the F6/F7 timeframe Java fight? > * the Debian/Fedora fight? (and the Ubuntu/Debian fight?) > * the activity packaging formats fight? > * the initscripts fight? > * the vserver fight? > * the libertas fight(s)? > * the Bitfrost/____ fight? > * the Journal/file manager fight? > * the livecd-tools / pilgrim+puritan fight? > * the stock vs. patched kernel fight? > * the UY, ET, and NE modification fights? > * deciding how and where to seek donations to OLPC (or alternately, > to market and sell XOs, depending on your perspective). Not knowing all the gossip, a lot of these seem more like "conservative" vs "exciting" decisions rather than "libre" vs "usability" or "global" vs "local". Programmer/Manager A: Let's do crazy idea X, it will solve A, B and C and will be simple to implement! Programmer/Manager B: You have no idea what what problems will really arise with X. Let's just stick with what works, Y. This judgment process is a natural part of software development. As a fun exercise, I personally come down at: Etoys, missed that one, Debian, something other than xo bundles, custom initscripts!!, KISS, libertas FTW, the best security is a reflash usb key and backup, both, probably livecd-tools, PATCHED, let them do whatever they need to, market away but avoid sponsors. Cheers, -Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/ee9c71b9/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 20:42:21 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 20:42:21 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> I'm following the format used by programs like MicroType and Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing (what I personally learned on). Both have demo versions for Windows available. TT will be simple compared with these programs, but they are the general template. We are working towards an alpha in early January.. When it's ready I will announce it on the sugar list. Cheers, Wade On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Sascha Silbe < sascha-ml-ui-sugar-sugar at silbe.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 07:20:05PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > If you have used TuxType, you will know that it's a simplistic typing >> *practice game* and in no way teaches the user how to type. >> > I thought that's what you're looking for. How do you imagine a "typing > teaching activity" to work? > What does the "Typing Turtle" activity that was mentioned look like? > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSV6zirpz82VMF3DaAQLpMwgArkQogjN/D+9IUvqvbHlXaduKF6UMaxfg > JIfTIbdTccjCxuXzqMv90hrFCXEg1stiXqgaWjZpCX5JN+WjDkSQPYxY2oeQQOZj > 0+TiYbsLwWFOUXPlJkfiJpKXVH+cOu0et5ZIqSPd84MyekxtGqCyb0sd/uKCcu09 > zr7Ri2ADoQoq1p1XI38m/IqCRyiDtpez9UX8AB2L48tDD15Yhlnh0QMy7EuhYMli > ZhtW1Ng33pWV9diYkjawmD8vs+rniFtcXKW/IZG63LOV5UZ66eMEGx6CAKV9TXNp > jOjPW9L5oUZLh0/Cb1hFvKYRzzDuLKijdNcvYWfRKw8Bv0MrkhmOAg== > =7WVV > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/17097bb9/attachment.htm From echerlin at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 21:45:49 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:45:49 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2008-12-29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In addition to the essential ideas discussed below, we need to have a discussion of skill, and the appropriate kinds of practice for achieving it. We have ample proof that reading cannot be taught simply as a classroom subject. Those who catch the reading bug, and read all sorts of things that no teacher assigns, will be our best readers, and in many cases our best writers. But we also need to practice the arts of speaking and listening. We know that keyboarding is a skill where drill is of value. We know that daily practice is essential for developing musical skill (except in some cases of prodigies and savants). We know that the best way to become fluent in a language is to have people to talk with, so that the skills become habit rather than knowledge. We know that calculation of various kinds can benefit from drill. But we cannot suppose that doing every possible drill in the best possible way constitutes an education. Also, when we speak of critical thinking, we need to introduce the appropriate standards, and teach our students how to adhere to them, and how to tell when somebody is failing to do that: logic and proof in mathematics, the scientific method, rules of evidence in law, and many others, to begin with, but also the deeper questions, how those got to be the rules, and whether we can make further progress. The art and logic of discovery, which is quite different from proof. Effective methods of collaboration. And so on. Earth Treasury and its partners propose to re-invent the textbook for the one-to-one age, making use of all of these powerful ideas, together with our current moderately powerful hardware and wonderful but still preliminary software. We invite participation, discussion, and criticism. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Creating_textbooks On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 6:35 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > As 2008 comes to an end, it gives me an excuse to do some reflecting > on what we are doing as a project and foundation. Most of the > following you've read before, but it is helpful?at least to me?to > revisit these ideas periodically. > > The world faces many seemingly intractable problems: war, a faltering > economy, an energy crisis, global climate change, to name just a few. > My generation has failed to solve these problems. Our children will > inherit them from us. But we can leave them something in addition: the > means to become a generation of critical thinkers and problem-solvers. > The investment that we can make on their behalf that will have the > most return is learning. It has a bearing on all of the challenges we > face and is essential if our children are to excel in an ever-changing > world. Providing every child with the opportunity to learn learning > will allow them both to achieve a clarity of purpose and to develop > independent means towards their goals. > > What should children and learn and how should they learn it? > Information is about nouns; learning is about verbs. Of course > learners should have access to power ideas (I won't debate here which > ones we should teach). But they should also engage in exploration and > collaboration, appropriating knowledge while engaging in authentic, > open-ended problem solving. This can be accomplished within a > framework of accountability, one that complements rigorous national > standards where learners engage in a process of reflection, public > expression, and critique?a "portfolio" approach. What am I learning? > How did I learn it? Why is it important? Can I teach it to others? > > We have some simple, universal points of leverage: > > * Everyone is a teacher and a learner. > * Humans are social beings. > * Humans are expressive. > > You learn through doing, so if you want to learn more, you want to do more. > > Love is a better master than duty?you want people to engage in things > that are authentic to them, things that they love. Internal motivation > almost always trumps external motivations. > > These ideas are not immiscible with current norms within schools, but > too often we fall back on what we "know". I challenge you to think of > a great learning moment in your life: was it sitting in a classroom, > all eyes forward, listening to a lecture or was in when you were > trying to solve a problem that was important to you? > > We know of no better tool for learning than a computer?it is a "thing > to think with" when it is used as a means of knowledge creation. > (Unfortunately, it is too often thought of and used as simply a > mechanism for information retrieval and rote learning in our > schools?the modern equivalent of the mimeograph machine, AKA the > "purple" plague.) > > Three experiences can characterize a computer-enhanced learning platform: > > Sharing: The interface should always shows the presence of other > learners. Collaboration is a first-order experience. Students and > teachers dialog with each other, support each other, critique each > other, and share ideas. > > Reflecting: A "Journal" should record each learner's activity. The > Journal serves as a place for reflection and assessment of > progress?the basis of a portfolio. > > Discovering: We can accommodate a wide variety of users, with > different levels of skill in terms of reading, language, and different > levels of experience with computing. It is easy to approach, yet it > doesn't put an upper bound on personal expression. One should always > be able to peel away layers and go deeper and deeper, with no > restrictions. This allows the direct appropriation of ideas in > whatever realm the learner is exploring: music, browsing, reading, > writing, programming, or graphics. The student can always go further. > > These are the core ideas behind Sugar. By embodying these ideas > directly into the affordances provided by the user interface, we can > skew the odds that teachers and learners will engage in more than the > accumulation and transfer of information. > > In Sugar, have in hand the tools to reinvent how computers are used > for education. Collaboration, reflection, and discovery are readily > integrated directly into the learning experience. Children and > teachers have the opportunity to use computers on their own terms, > reshape, reinvent, and reapply both software and content into powerful > learning activities. Learning can be focused on sharing, criticism, > and exploration. We have a lot of work ahead of us to refine these > tools and to refine the practice around them, but we have a solid > beginning. > > We can raise a generation of critical thinkers, armed with the > complementary tools of science and the arts. (Relatively speaking, it > is a trivial investment?probably less than the cost of a single > "bridge to nowhere". All of the necessary tools are freely available > under free software licenses. But we do need to invest in engaging > teachers, parents, and children in learning learning.) So let's make > it happen. > > ===Sugar Labs=== > > Gary Martin has generated another SOM from the past week of discussion > on the IAEP mailing list (Please see > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:2008-December-20-26-som.jpg). > > > Happy New Year. > > -walter > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai From arjun at laptop.org Fri Jan 2 23:19:57 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:49:57 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] TA with sensors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > Thanks for this background. > > I think that the try/exception mechanism is adequate for our needs. It > will be otherwise trivial for me to add the sensor features to the > main branch of TA... I'll add it to the next release. > > I wonder if there is a mechanism we can call upon (Sugar should > perhaps provide this) that will tell us that we are being sent to the > background so that we can only reinitialize when we go away and come > back? It seems that for every call to the sensor, it is a large > overhead to incur... > There are signals in Sugar that are fired when an Activity becomes the background Activity or foreground Activity (I've used these in Measure code). It seems like a good idea to explore to keep the capture device ON while TurtleArt is the active Activity and leave the audio device when Activity is in background and then re-initialize it when TurtleArt becomes the active Activity. > -walter > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: >> Hello Walter, >> >> Thank you for the new year wishes. Best wishes to you too for the new >> year! (hope you received my card too) >> >> A few points regarding adding sensor support >> >> * Calls to Alsamixer to set the DC mode on/off will result in an >> exception on one's normal laptop. This is because the DC mode controls >> don't exist in the Alsamixer of a normal laptop (even sugar emulation >> makes calls to the laptop's default alsamixer) >> >> * I had put in initializations before each call to the sensor because >> - user may switch to another Activity in between a session of Turtle >> Art -- the other Activity may use the laptop's sound device. The >> other Activity may alter the sound device settings. >> - unless a call for sensor input is being made, I didn't want to keep >> the capture device active. >> The capture device can be thought to be in a state of 'recording >> sound' when one is getting sensor input data, hence only one >> Activity/program can have access to it at one time. >> However, any suggestions you may have on the above implementation >> would be very welcome. >> >> >> * If it helps, I am summarizing approximately the changes I made in >> TurtleArt to add sensor support and some relevant lines to look at >> within the TA with Sensors code that I had made for the earlier (non >> SVG version of TAwithSensors): >> Referring to the version of the online git tree ('Initial import') >> (http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree;h=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465;hb=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465) >> >> - audiograb.py as an additional file was included completely >> - talogo.py : >> (note that lines 8 and 9 in this version of git tree would need to be >> changed to >> from numpy.oldnumeric import * >> from numpy.fft import * ) >> lines 8,9,11,12 were added >> lines 366 onwards till the end have been added >> -tasetup.py: lines 47 to 51 to account for the additional sensor >> blocks in the UI >> >> As you can see from the code of talogo.py , the approach involves a >> lot of painful starting the whole gstreamer pipeline, getting one >> sample then stopping the pipeline. An overkill for getting just one >> sample, but there is no way unless python alsa audio is included in >> the build system. The approach with python alsa audio is work in >> progress here ( >> http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree ) >> >> I want to work on incorporating sensor support into the SVG version of >> TA that you have made, but my current day job isn't leaving me any >> time these days to do anything else. I will get to it as soon as I get >> the opportunity, but if in the meanwhile you get a chance to do it - >> it'd be great. >> >> Please let me know if I can help further. >> >> Kind Regards >> Arjun >> >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >>> >>> I've begun folding TA with sensors into TA. I use an exception to >>> catch the calls to set DC Mode in Alsamixer, so it seems to run fine >>> on my normal laptop using the mic input. But when I look at the logs, >>> it seems that there is a lot of initialization that happens with every >>> call to the sensor. Is that all necessary? Can we just check for >>> changes after the first time? >>> >>> -walter >>> >>> >>> >>> # test to see if DC Mode is enabled >>> try: >>> self.dcmode = Mixer('DC Mode Enable') >>> self.bias = Mixer('V_REFOUT Enable') >>> self.has_dcmode = True >>> except: >>> print "DC Mode unavailable" >>> self.has_dcmode = False >>> >>> >>> >>> Walter Bender >>> Sugar Labs >>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> >> >> >> -- >> Arjun Sarwal >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > From echerlin at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 01:49:19 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:49:19 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO (was: Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > If you have used TuxType, you will know that it's a simplistic typing > *practice game* and in no way teaches the user how to type. > > That said, there are typing programs out there that could work. I just > wanted to make a nice one for Sugar. Learning to type in Indic writing systems, including Devanagari for Nepali, is much easier than learning any Latin-alphabet keyboard. It took me a month to switch from QWERTY to Dvorak, but only two days to be able to type in Sanskrit (though not as fast). The consonants are laid out in a logical order based on the work of the ancient Sanskrit grammarians, with each of labial, dental, retroflex, palatal, and velar consonant families having its own column. Almost all vowels are under the left hand, and consonants under the right hand. Orthography is extremely regular. Some of the rules of English may not apply, such as word division. There is no capitalization. Each of the Indic keyboard layouts is very similar to all of the others. I would like to get hold of Omar Khayyam Moore's Edison Talking Typewriter program and rewrite it in a modern programming language. It ran on an IBM 360 and taught three-year-olds to read and write on a Selectric terminal with very little human intervention required. > -Wade > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Sascha Silbe > wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:10:09PM -0800, Bryan Berry wrote: >> >>> The Typing Turtle will be immensely useful and immensely popular in >>> Nepal. A typing tutor is one of the most frequently requested programs >>> by the Nepali kids and teachers alike. Thanks alot to Wade for working >>> on it. >> >> Have you tried TuxType/TuxTyping [1] and (a recent version of) TuxMath? >> There's no XO bundle for them yet, but if they fit your needs, you might >> try asking Albert Calahan. He seems to have done the TuxPaint [2] bundle >> [3,5] (all three programs are from the same project - Tux4Kids [4]). >> >> >> [1] http://tuxtype.sourceforge.net/ >> [2] http://www.tuxpaint.org/ >> [3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Tux_Paint >> [4] http://tux4kids.alioth.debian.org/ >> [5] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/All >> >> CU Sascha >> >> -- >> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iQEVAwUBSV6pWrpz82VMF3DaAQLL0gf/c8N5HvCAiuM8vNC9TIn5rb5afUtJCb2M >> pzWMSDDBQYpRQniwi04qgS7exVh0OlYFficKrrZni9dAEVL582zRGzCHVmP7RIda >> 5PLpA5UOcgQIjGvoyeiBO+yhdx540kmsPU0UWzE7ZQEdAwdJUnlgF5aB/L0pT8H+ >> /0hdMbR1uHrServp6EPikvmkq95lWTf78YR3cLcKjmBF7gvxHNVv5mtFEb5HvbfG >> SF5lmxNSFWojx7LrHYYA7EArO7vMDvK25sYTofBTZ32cml3egGH6SqPgRW7MiUGj >> nRmjfYba2Z9FE9AhQsyUkUZUNyqT6sbcrff2zMbJLW5/LIbfQ5gXfw== >> =cZiZ >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 3 04:26:28 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:26:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <1230924646.17108.76.camel@hitman> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> <1230924646.17108.76.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <242851610901030126t1894ef2am6bcb0232be625d4@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 20:30, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 19:18 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Hi, >> >> without needing to get into what is better for our deployments, I do >> see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using technologies >> such as HTML, CSS, etc >> Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would take >> ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which would be >> the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take in order >> to create a Sugar activity? > > Presently, we do the following to run flash activities on the XO > > 1) download the Firefox3.xo bundle > 2) change the activity.info file > 3) change some of the file and directory names to reference > EPaathActivity instead of FirefoxActivity > 4) copy the swf (flash) files to ./activity/Activity/Activities (I know > it's ugly > 5) change the firefoxactivity.py > ff = [ './firefox' ] > to > ff = [ './firefox', './activity/Activity/Activities/OurSWF.htm'] Doesn't sound too complicated. How is it working right now? Which are the biggest issues? How do you envision this should be done instead? >> I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could create some >> tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also have some >> ideas about how those activities could interact with the journal and >> other Sugar features. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu > > Again, this requires people to learn python, a whole new language that > they don't necessarily use at work. We need to enable developers to be > very productive in just 2-3 hours per week. For them to be productive > they need to be using tools they are already familiar w/. > > Python is a tool popular among sysadmins and hackers. It is great tool. > But folks who develop web UIs use css, html, javascript, and flash. I > highly doubt that will change in the near or distant future. These are > people we need to recruit as activity designers. I guess I was unclear in my proposal. What I was talking about is creating a set of tools that the web developers would use. A python coder would write and maintain them and the web developers would use them to deploy their work. Regards, Tomeu >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry wrote: >> > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. >> > >> > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and >> > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December >> > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots >> > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this >> > spring and coming summer. >> > >> > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education >> > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some >> > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. >> > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. >> > >> > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, >> > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we >> > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple >> > for them to contribute. >> > >> > But Which Developers? >> > >> > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth >> > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine >> > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are >> > technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to >> > help. >> > >> > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for >> > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the >> > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, >> > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system >> > internals. >> > >> > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people >> > designers. The good news is that there are lots of >> > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute >> > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may >> > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and >> > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. >> > >> > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, >> > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers >> > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the >> > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing >> > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even >> > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies >> > in a few years time. > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't take over the >> > world nor will VB.net. >> > >> > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the difference >> > that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote >> > server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline >> > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses >> > dialects of Javascript (> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and >> > XML (MXML). >> > >> > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop >> > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, >> > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing >> > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific >> > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I >> > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." >> > >> > The > > href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS Nepal community has won the award for best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. >> > >> > Open-Source is Expensive >> > >> > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable >> > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend >> > some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate >> > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of >> > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him >> > to support them financially once he got a job. >> > >> > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They >> > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended >> > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, >> > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source >> > but their free time is significantly more limited. >> > >> > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. >> > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create >> > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the >> > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few >> > hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. >> > >> > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK >> > activity >> > framework are as follows: >> > >> >
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit >> > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
>> > >> > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The >> > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather >> > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd >> > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters >> > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. >> > >> > I propose a new set of design goals: >> > >> >
    >> >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities utilizing >> > widely-used tools.
    2. >> >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. >> >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. >> >
>> > >> > It's OK to be Opinionated >> > >> > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure >> > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and >> > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do allow you to create nice applications very quickly. >> > >> > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit >> > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can >> > always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The >> > whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it >> > doesn't constrain anyone. >> > >> > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II >> > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," >> > >> >
    >> >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* Flash
    • >> >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • >> >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning activities so we don't >> > have to?
    • >> >
>> > >> > >> > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of > > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of >> > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all >> > things web to this article >> > >> > >> > >> > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical >> > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in >> > the current default activity development framework, and the urgent >> > need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. >> > >> > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost >> > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on >> > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I >> > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time >> > I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. >> > >> > Let's Ride The Internet Wave >> > >> > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room >> > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI >> > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of >> > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software >> > industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support >> > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in >> > V8 javascript compiler and >> > Apple's investment in > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I speculate >> > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for >> > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for >> > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. >> > >> > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that >> > wave of innovation. >> > >> > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and >> > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries >> > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build >> > their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in >> > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration >> > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're >> > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that >> > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, >> > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework >> > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. >> > >> > Developing Country Developer Economics >> > >> > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing >> > countries is quite different than that in the developed >> > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much >> > less time to contribute. >> > >> > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use >> > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as >> > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are >> > much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They >> > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. >> > >> > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement >> > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their >> > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes >> > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web >> > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your >> > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities >> > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a >> > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible >> > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from >> > the more rewarding parts of activity development. >> > >> > Building Good KARMA >> > >> > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name >> > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, >> > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, >> > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an >> > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two >> > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of >> > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. >> > >> > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of >> > KARMA >> > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the >> > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize >> > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much >> > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't >> > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely >> > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I >> > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the >> > developing world are web developers and a successful activity >> > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. >> > >> > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher >> > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data >> > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to >> > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice >> > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of >> > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw >> > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? >> > >> > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to >> > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" >> > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of >> > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the >> > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but >> > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar >> > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules >> > of Pashto grammar. >> > >> > Flash Ain't Open-Source >> > >> > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like >> > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file >> > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the >> > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, >> > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player >> > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully >> > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at >> > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: >> > Rob >> > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. >> > >> > Javascript Isn't Ready >> > >> > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, >> > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete >> > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like >> > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js >> > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any >> > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every >> > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really >> > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), >> > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. >> > >> > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash >> > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound >> > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to >> > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove >> > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some >> > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. >> > >> > >> > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will >> > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace >> > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers >> > happy. >> > >> > Building Momentum for Gnash >> > >> > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source >> > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source >> > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot >> > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash >> > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer >> > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best >> > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering >> > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. >> > >> > Moving the Conversation Forward >> > >> > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning >> > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize >> > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web >> > technologies. >> > >> > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing >> > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in >> > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Bryan W. Berry >> > Technology Director >> > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 3 04:31:42 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:31:42 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021132s7423157av3ad1cfa4267b9326@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901021132s7423157av3ad1cfa4267b9326@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901030131t142b604fw52d83cd75dbbbe29@mail.gmail.com> Sounds very in line with what we have been talking to date, plus you add some very good ideas like using the integrated web server for accessing the journal. Also, some web (server side) developers have asked for some way of running web applications as Sugar activities. I guess in this scenario we are limited by the resource requirements of most web apps that require a specific http server, database server, etc. But I think there's place anyway to provide some amount of support for server side web apps. Thanks, Tomeu On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 20:32, Wade Brainerd wrote: > The work we did for WikiBrowse (the WikipediaES and WikipediaEN) activities > would make a good starting point. > > First of all the Browse code should be integrated into Sugar. This has been > discussed before, and makes sense since you guys are maintaining the Browse > activity anyway. > > The Browse code would be provided as a base > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity class. Currently, "web-based" > activities (not content bundles) need to manually find the path to the > Browse installation (assuming there is one!) and import its modules which > feels rather hacky. > > The sugar.activity.webactivity module should also provide a WebServer > class. This class is a SimpleHTTPServer derivative which supports iterating > and finding and returning an unused local port to serve over. The server > would handle GET/POST requests to a special '/journal/' URL prefix, > allowing DHTML scripts access to the activity's Journal entry. > > Finally, a web-activity launcher script should be created. This script > launches the Sugar Browse code and supports a variety of command line > options to control what parts of the Browse UI are enabled, and to set the > home page. It should be possible to launch a Browse instance with nothing > but the Activity toolbar for example. > > These steps will allow for three (or more!) different variations on > "web-based" activities: > > 1) Static HTML and/or DHTML ala the existing .xol system. A collection of > .html, css and .js files can be bundled as a .xo file. The included > activity.info exec line calls web-activity with appropriate command line > options. > > The advantage of this approach over .xol files is that the "web-based > activity" appears as a first class object in the Sugar UI with an > independent icon on the Home view. Further, since the > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer is used, DHTML code can read/write from > the activity's Journal entry. > > 2) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom UI. In WikiBrowse, I subclassed > WebActivity and added a new Search toolbar, which searches the wiki DB and > retrieves a page of results. This is the same as variation 1, except > instead of calling "web-activity", a new Python activity class is derived > from sugar.activity.webactivity.WebActivity and modifies the UI in some way > - adding toolbars, etc. > > 3) Static HTML and/or DHTML with custom server. In WikiBrowse, a custom > webserver attaches to a local port and serves wiki pages. It decompresses > and formats wiki pages before serving them up as XHTML. So in this > variation, a simple Python WebServer class is derived from > sugar.activity.webactivity.WebServer and the appropriate page request > handing methods are added. The base WebServer class additionally handles > GET/POST request to access the Journal entry for the activity. > > Doing this work would allow us to rewrite WikiBrowse in a much cleaner > fashion, and would allow a whole range of first class Web-based Sugar > activities. > > Cheers, > Wade > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> without needing to get into what is better for our deployments, I do >> see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using technologies >> such as HTML, CSS, etc >> >> Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would take >> ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which would be >> the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take in order >> to create a Sugar activity? >> >> I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could create some >> tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also have some >> ideas about how those activities could interact with the journal and >> other Sugar features. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu >> >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry wrote: >> > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. >> > >> > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and >> > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December >> > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots >> > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this >> > spring and coming summer. >> > >> > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education >> > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some >> > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. >> > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. >> > >> > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, >> > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we >> > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple >> > for them to contribute. >> > >> > But Which Developers? >> > >> > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth >> > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine >> > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are >> > technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to >> > help. >> > >> > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for >> > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the >> > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, >> > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system >> > internals. >> > >> > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people >> > designers. The good news is that there are lots of >> > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute >> > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may >> > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and >> > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. >> > >> > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, >> > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers >> > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the >> > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing >> > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even >> > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies >> > in a few years time. > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't take over the >> > world nor will VB.net. >> > >> > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the difference >> > that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote >> > server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline >> > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses >> > dialects of Javascript (> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and >> > XML (MXML). >> > >> > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop >> > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, >> > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing >> > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific >> > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I >> > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." >> > >> > The > > >> > href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS >> > Nepal community has > > href="http://softwarefreedomday.org/Competition2008">won the award for >> > best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. >> > Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific >> > in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a >> > wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive >> > to produce. >> > >> > Open-Source is Expensive >> > >> > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable >> > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend >> > some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate >> > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of >> > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him >> > to support them financially once he got a job. >> > >> > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They >> > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended >> > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, >> > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source >> > but their free time is significantly more limited. >> > >> > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. >> > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create >> > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the >> > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few >> > hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. >> > >> > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK >> > activity >> > framework are as follows: >> > >> >
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit >> > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
>> > >> > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The >> > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather >> > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd >> > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters >> > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. >> > >> > I propose a new set of design goals: >> > >> >
    >> >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities >> > utilizing >> > widely-used tools.
    2. >> >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. >> >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. >> >
>> > >> > It's OK to be Opinionated >> > >> > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure >> > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and >> > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of > > >> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention >> > Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web >> > frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like >> > Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do >> > allow you to create nice applications very quickly. >> > >> > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit >> > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can >> > always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The >> > whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it >> > doesn't constrain anyone. >> > >> > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II >> > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," >> > >> >
    >> >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* Flash
    • >> >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • >> >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning activities so we >> > don't >> > have to?
    • >> >
>> > >> > >> > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of > > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of >> > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all >> > things web to this article >> > >> > >> > >> > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical >> > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in >> > the current default activity development framework, and the urgent >> > need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. >> > >> > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost >> > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on >> > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I >> > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time >> > I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. >> > >> > Let's Ride The Internet Wave >> > >> > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room >> > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI >> > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of >> > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software >> > industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support >> > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in >> > V8 javascript compiler and >> > Apple's investment in > > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I speculate >> > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for >> > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for >> > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. >> > >> > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that >> > wave of innovation. >> > >> > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and >> > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries >> > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build >> > their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in >> > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration >> > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're >> > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that >> > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, >> > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework >> > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. >> > >> > Developing Country Developer Economics >> > >> > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing >> > countries is quite different than that in the developed >> > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much >> > less time to contribute. >> > >> > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use >> > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as >> > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are >> > much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They >> > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. >> > >> > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement >> > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their >> > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes >> > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web >> > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your >> > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities >> > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a >> > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible >> > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from >> > the more rewarding parts of activity development. >> > >> > Building Good KARMA >> > >> > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name >> > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, >> > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, >> > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an >> > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two >> > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of >> > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. >> > >> > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of >> > KARMA >> > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the >> > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize >> > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much >> > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't >> > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely >> > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I >> > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the >> > developing world are web developers and a successful activity >> > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. >> > >> > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher >> > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data >> > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to >> > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice >> > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of >> > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw >> > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? >> > >> > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to >> > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" >> > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of >> > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the >> > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but >> > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar >> > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules >> > of Pashto grammar. >> > >> > Flash Ain't Open-Source >> > >> > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like >> > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file >> > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the >> > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, >> > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player >> > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully >> > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at >> > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: >> > Rob >> > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. >> > >> > Javascript Isn't Ready >> > >> > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, >> > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete >> > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like >> > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js >> > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any >> > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every >> > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really >> > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), >> > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. >> > >> > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash >> > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound >> > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to >> > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove >> > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some >> > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. >> > >> > >> > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will >> > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace >> > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers >> > happy. >> > >> > Building Momentum for Gnash >> > >> > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source >> > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source >> > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot >> > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash >> > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer >> > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best >> > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering >> > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. >> > >> > Moving the Conversation Forward >> > >> > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning >> > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize >> > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web >> > technologies. >> > >> > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing >> > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in >> > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Bryan W. Berry >> > Technology Director >> > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 3 04:48:05 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:48:05 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] TA with sensors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <242851610901030148m2f013e2fw2483aa5c52e0258d@mail.gmail.com> Also, see the link below for a way to detect when the activity window is visible or not: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/journal/journalactivity.py#line298 It's used by the journal in order to decide whether it needs to auto refresh its view or not. Regards, Tomeu On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 05:19, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >> Thanks for this background. >> >> I think that the try/exception mechanism is adequate for our needs. It >> will be otherwise trivial for me to add the sensor features to the >> main branch of TA... I'll add it to the next release. >> >> I wonder if there is a mechanism we can call upon (Sugar should >> perhaps provide this) that will tell us that we are being sent to the >> background so that we can only reinitialize when we go away and come >> back? It seems that for every call to the sensor, it is a large >> overhead to incur... >> > > There are signals in Sugar that are fired when an Activity becomes the > background Activity or foreground Activity (I've used these in Measure > code). It seems like a good idea to explore to keep the capture device > ON while TurtleArt is the active Activity and leave the audio device > when Activity is in background and then re-initialize it when > TurtleArt becomes the active Activity. > >> -walter >> >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: >>> Hello Walter, >>> >>> Thank you for the new year wishes. Best wishes to you too for the new >>> year! (hope you received my card too) >>> >>> A few points regarding adding sensor support >>> >>> * Calls to Alsamixer to set the DC mode on/off will result in an >>> exception on one's normal laptop. This is because the DC mode controls >>> don't exist in the Alsamixer of a normal laptop (even sugar emulation >>> makes calls to the laptop's default alsamixer) >>> >>> * I had put in initializations before each call to the sensor because >>> - user may switch to another Activity in between a session of Turtle >>> Art -- the other Activity may use the laptop's sound device. The >>> other Activity may alter the sound device settings. >>> - unless a call for sensor input is being made, I didn't want to keep >>> the capture device active. >>> The capture device can be thought to be in a state of 'recording >>> sound' when one is getting sensor input data, hence only one >>> Activity/program can have access to it at one time. >>> However, any suggestions you may have on the above implementation >>> would be very welcome. >>> >>> >>> * If it helps, I am summarizing approximately the changes I made in >>> TurtleArt to add sensor support and some relevant lines to look at >>> within the TA with Sensors code that I had made for the earlier (non >>> SVG version of TAwithSensors): >>> Referring to the version of the online git tree ('Initial import') >>> (http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree;h=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465;hb=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465) >>> >>> - audiograb.py as an additional file was included completely >>> - talogo.py : >>> (note that lines 8 and 9 in this version of git tree would need to be >>> changed to >>> from numpy.oldnumeric import * >>> from numpy.fft import * ) >>> lines 8,9,11,12 were added >>> lines 366 onwards till the end have been added >>> -tasetup.py: lines 47 to 51 to account for the additional sensor >>> blocks in the UI >>> >>> As you can see from the code of talogo.py , the approach involves a >>> lot of painful starting the whole gstreamer pipeline, getting one >>> sample then stopping the pipeline. An overkill for getting just one >>> sample, but there is no way unless python alsa audio is included in >>> the build system. The approach with python alsa audio is work in >>> progress here ( >>> http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree ) >>> >>> I want to work on incorporating sensor support into the SVG version of >>> TA that you have made, but my current day job isn't leaving me any >>> time these days to do anything else. I will get to it as soon as I get >>> the opportunity, but if in the meanwhile you get a chance to do it - >>> it'd be great. >>> >>> Please let me know if I can help further. >>> >>> Kind Regards >>> Arjun >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >>>> >>>> I've begun folding TA with sensors into TA. I use an exception to >>>> catch the calls to set DC Mode in Alsamixer, so it seems to run fine >>>> on my normal laptop using the mic input. But when I look at the logs, >>>> it seems that there is a lot of initialization that happens with every >>>> call to the sensor. Is that all necessary? Can we just check for >>>> changes after the first time? >>>> >>>> -walter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> # test to see if DC Mode is enabled >>>> try: >>>> self.dcmode = Mixer('DC Mode Enable') >>>> self.bias = Mixer('V_REFOUT Enable') >>>> self.has_dcmode = True >>>> except: >>>> print "DC Mode unavailable" >>>> self.has_dcmode = False >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Walter Bender >>>> Sugar Labs >>>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arjun Sarwal >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 3 06:22:55 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:22:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Architecture Documentation In-Reply-To: References: <50313.80950.qm@web65506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <242851610901030322q5c9efb57id5650b123aa6f6a9@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 20:35, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 19:58, David Farning wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:10 AM, wrote: >>> Hi David, >>> >>> As I am in between jobs, I do some volunteer work with the local OLPC >>> office, helping them in technical and regulatory matters. However, my >>> primary interest is software and have also been working with Walter on a >>> proposal to globalize Sugar development. >>> >>> I stay in touch with Sugar activities through the Wiki and have been trying >>> to get a handle on the articecture. Basically, how it complements/meshes >>> with LINUX. Came across a good article on Bitfrost and one written by you >>> on APIDOX. From my experience I know that this learning process is >>> iterative and a lot comes with practical involvement but I would still >>> appreciate if you can point me to some documents that give me an overview of >>> the architecture. > > Our architecture overview is > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Architecture - quite sparse > but feel free to ask specific questions on this list and we can > provide the details. Just wanted to note that one of the reasons for that page to be so scarce on details is that we are following pretty closely the architecture of other X11 desktop environments like GNOME, KDE, etc, so though we could extend quite deeply on several aspects, most of it wouldn't be Sugar specific. And yeah, please ask any questions you have and we'll fill those wholes in the wiki. Thanks, Tomeu >>> To give you and idea of my absorption capacity (or lack thereof), l must add >>> that I wrote code for DMERT (production system in 5ESS switch) based on UNIX >>> SVR2 and was responsible for the R&D UNIX Kernel Development (retrofitting >>> the standard UNIX scheduler to the R&D version). But for the past 17 years >>> I have been out of internals and spent most of the time on user level >>> services (Windows Netowrking, MS Exchange, MS SMS), Salses Support, Project >>> Design, Government Policy, etc. I am OK with OOP concepts though. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Tariq Badsha >>> >> Tariq, >> >> I have cced your request to the sugar development list. One of the >> developers will be able to help you out more then I can. >> >> thanks >> david > > Regards > Morgan > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 3 06:37:15 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:37:15 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate 26 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <242851610901030337x125eddbapfe2fb8bd0d6a655@mail.gmail.com> Hi Reinier, nice to hear from you. On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 01:09, Reinier Heeres wrote: > Hi all, > > I just released a new version of Calculate. I know I missed the feature > freeze by about a week, but I was still quite busy finishing the code > refactoring. We actually moved the dates some time ago, the feature freeze is actually Jan 16: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap > Available at: > XO: http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/calculate/Calculate-26.xo > tarball: > http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/Calculate/Calculate-26.tar.bz2 > > Many things are improved, from NEWS with a bit more comment: > > * Move to new equation parser based on python ast > Calculate now uses the internal python parser to create an Abstract Syntax > Tree (ast). The tree for an equation is evaluated by Calculate itself, so > that operators (mostly divide) can give different results from standard > python (e.g. return Rational numbers). The way functions, help and constants > are included is also much improved and easier to extend by modifying the > files functions.py and constants.py. Speed increase is about a factor 10, > especially noticeable when plotting. (It's also less code and easier to > maintain!) > > * Refactor sharing > This is a major improvement and simplifcation. I recommend other activity > authors and sugar developers to have a look at shareable_activity.py. This > provides a class to easily create activities that can be shared (by > inheriting from ShareableActivity). It automatically sets-up a DBus tube and > a service to communicate between a shared instance. Communication is exposed > by the function send_message('message_name', param1=1, param2=2, ...) that > can be processed on the other end through a registered callback or by > overloading the function message_received(). I think this could really be > sufficient for most Activities. > > I tested on 767 but it is also compatible with newer api. This could also be > a good reason to use shareable_activity.py: keep sugar-sharing-api-version > voodoo out of the main activity code and keep it more readable. It could > result in less overall duplicate code (a good thing!). > > * Refactored equation drawing code > Adding an equation was slow due to the whole list being regenerated. This is > not the case anymore. > > * Add languages: bi, cs, en_US, fi, he, hu, sk, sv, sw, wa > > This is a development release and I expect a few bugs; if you find any, > please report them. Testing is appreciated! > > I'm aware that I probably should move this code over to sugarlabs; however, > I think I don't have access there yet. Marco, Tomeu, Simon, Bernie, any > pointers? You don't need to ask for access in order to host the git tree, just open an account in git.sugarlabs.org and push to your new tree. http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git About uploading tarballs, I think you need to ask for an account to bernie. Regards, Tomeu > Regards, > -- > Reinier Heeres > Waalstraat 17 > 2515 XK Den Haag > The Netherlands > > Tel: +31 6 10852639 > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tony_anderson at usa.net Sat Jan 3 07:31:50 2009 From: tony_anderson at usa.net (Tony Anderson) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 07:31:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO Message-ID: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> Bryan has started a very interesting discussion about what is needed for the XO to support education. I would like to add my two cents worth. We are learning (gaining new experience) every day that we are alive. The traditional difference in education is that it is organized learning. Teaching a topic means to provide an organized tour of an area of knowledge covering what every student should know or be aware of. The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). My vision is that there is a repository (website) which contains free (CC or similar) courses covering the core curriculum for K-8. The website needs to be supported by a community of developers (course creators) and moderators (folks who volunteer to assist teachers and students who are participating). This repository should also contain 'elective' courses following the model of Oregon's Saturday Academy (http://www.saturdayacademy.org/). A Moodle course is divided into sections (topics, weeks, ...). Each section has one or more 'activities' (a word which is very heavily overloaded). Essentially an 'activity' here is something the course creator asks the students to do or experience (e.g. read an exposition on the topic in a wiki page, listen to some music, create an e-toy project, answer some questions, ...). Moodle provides the teacher with a wealth of information on the progress of each student. This organization suggests that course developers could start a new course or add sections to an existing course or add activities to an existing section. It also suggests that teachers in a local community could 'cut and paste' a course from these elements, adding or modifying as needed. The moderators would be new element. In the case of the Saturday Academy courses, they could be the 'teacher' working with a 'cohort' of enrolled students, who could be anywhere in the world. In the case of 'core' courses, they could provide help to the classroom teacher as well as helping to mentor students at the invitation of the teacher. For example, a class in Rwanda studying English could ask a moderator who is a native English speaker to meet with them at a specified time to tell them a story or host a chat. The teacher could ask the moderator to review student submissions (recorded audio or written material) for appropriate pronunciation or use of the language. The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, at the moment, many people in the community do not consider the schoolserver to be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily aimed at the university or pre-university level, and most of these are behind proprietary walls. Tony From solutiongrove at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 09:02:24 2009 From: solutiongrove at gmail.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:02:24 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> Message-ID: Hi Tony, I agree that content and activities that are delivered via Moodle should be an important part of this project. Have you done any research into what content is currently available? Who do you think are our best partners for creating and maintaining a collection of K-8 resources that can be accessed via Moodle? Curriki? Merlot? Which countries are ahead in this? Thanks, Caroline On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > Bryan has started a very interesting discussion about what is needed for > the XO to support education. I would like to add my two cents worth. > > We are learning (gaining new experience) every day that we are alive. > The traditional difference in education is that it is organized > learning. Teaching a topic means to provide an organized tour of an area > of knowledge covering what every student should know or be aware of. > > The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, > is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is > ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). > > My vision is that there is a repository (website) which contains free > (CC or similar) courses covering the core curriculum for K-8. The > website needs to be supported by a community of developers (course > creators) and moderators (folks who volunteer to assist teachers and > students who are participating). This repository should also contain > 'elective' courses following the model of Oregon's Saturday Academy > (http://www.saturdayacademy.org/). > > A Moodle course is divided into sections (topics, weeks, ...). Each > section has one or more 'activities' (a word which is very heavily > overloaded). Essentially an 'activity' here is something the course > creator asks the students to do or experience (e.g. read an exposition > on the topic in a wiki page, listen to some music, create an e-toy > project, answer some questions, ...). Moodle provides the teacher with a > wealth of information on the progress of each student. > > This organization suggests that course developers could start a new > course or add sections to an existing course or add activities to an > existing section. It also suggests that teachers in a local community > could 'cut and paste' a course from these elements, adding or modifying > as needed. > > The moderators would be new element. In the case of the Saturday Academy > courses, they could be the 'teacher' working with a 'cohort' of enrolled > students, who could be anywhere in the world. In the case of 'core' > courses, they could provide help to the classroom teacher as well as > helping to mentor students at the invitation of the teacher. For > example, a class in Rwanda studying English could ask a moderator who is > a native English speaker to meet with them at a specified time to tell > them a story or host a chat. The teacher could ask the moderator to > review student submissions (recorded audio or written material) for > appropriate pronunciation or use of the language. > > The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a > body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them > or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, at the > moment, many people in the community do not consider the schoolserver to > be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily aimed at the > university or pre-university level, and most of these are behind > proprietary walls. > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090103/d826d1c0/attachment-0001.htm From walter.bender at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 09:05:55 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:05:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] TA with sensors In-Reply-To: <242851610901030148m2f013e2fw2483aa5c52e0258d@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901030148m2f013e2fw2483aa5c52e0258d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I'll give it a try. -walter On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Also, see the link below for a way to detect when the activity window > is visible or not: > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/journal/journalactivity.py#line298 > > It's used by the journal in order to decide whether it needs to auto > refresh its view or not. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 05:19, Arjun Sarwal wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >>> Thanks for this background. >>> >>> I think that the try/exception mechanism is adequate for our needs. It >>> will be otherwise trivial for me to add the sensor features to the >>> main branch of TA... I'll add it to the next release. >>> >>> I wonder if there is a mechanism we can call upon (Sugar should >>> perhaps provide this) that will tell us that we are being sent to the >>> background so that we can only reinitialize when we go away and come >>> back? It seems that for every call to the sensor, it is a large >>> overhead to incur... >>> >> >> There are signals in Sugar that are fired when an Activity becomes the >> background Activity or foreground Activity (I've used these in Measure >> code). It seems like a good idea to explore to keep the capture device >> ON while TurtleArt is the active Activity and leave the audio device >> when Activity is in background and then re-initialize it when >> TurtleArt becomes the active Activity. >> >>> -walter >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: >>>> Hello Walter, >>>> >>>> Thank you for the new year wishes. Best wishes to you too for the new >>>> year! (hope you received my card too) >>>> >>>> A few points regarding adding sensor support >>>> >>>> * Calls to Alsamixer to set the DC mode on/off will result in an >>>> exception on one's normal laptop. This is because the DC mode controls >>>> don't exist in the Alsamixer of a normal laptop (even sugar emulation >>>> makes calls to the laptop's default alsamixer) >>>> >>>> * I had put in initializations before each call to the sensor because >>>> - user may switch to another Activity in between a session of Turtle >>>> Art -- the other Activity may use the laptop's sound device. The >>>> other Activity may alter the sound device settings. >>>> - unless a call for sensor input is being made, I didn't want to keep >>>> the capture device active. >>>> The capture device can be thought to be in a state of 'recording >>>> sound' when one is getting sensor input data, hence only one >>>> Activity/program can have access to it at one time. >>>> However, any suggestions you may have on the above implementation >>>> would be very welcome. >>>> >>>> >>>> * If it helps, I am summarizing approximately the changes I made in >>>> TurtleArt to add sensor support and some relevant lines to look at >>>> within the TA with Sensors code that I had made for the earlier (non >>>> SVG version of TAwithSensors): >>>> Referring to the version of the online git tree ('Initial import') >>>> (http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree;h=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465;hb=3f22f9f86d60f6160268c52009273eba82dba465) >>>> >>>> - audiograb.py as an additional file was included completely >>>> - talogo.py : >>>> (note that lines 8 and 9 in this version of git tree would need to be >>>> changed to >>>> from numpy.oldnumeric import * >>>> from numpy.fft import * ) >>>> lines 8,9,11,12 were added >>>> lines 366 onwards till the end have been added >>>> -tasetup.py: lines 47 to 51 to account for the additional sensor >>>> blocks in the UI >>>> >>>> As you can see from the code of talogo.py , the approach involves a >>>> lot of painful starting the whole gstreamer pipeline, getting one >>>> sample then stopping the pipeline. An overkill for getting just one >>>> sample, but there is no way unless python alsa audio is included in >>>> the build system. The approach with python alsa audio is work in >>>> progress here ( >>>> http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/arjs/TurtleArtwithSensors;a=tree ) >>>> >>>> I want to work on incorporating sensor support into the SVG version of >>>> TA that you have made, but my current day job isn't leaving me any >>>> time these days to do anything else. I will get to it as soon as I get >>>> the opportunity, but if in the meanwhile you get a chance to do it - >>>> it'd be great. >>>> >>>> Please let me know if I can help further. >>>> >>>> Kind Regards >>>> Arjun >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've begun folding TA with sensors into TA. I use an exception to >>>>> catch the calls to set DC Mode in Alsamixer, so it seems to run fine >>>>> on my normal laptop using the mic input. But when I look at the logs, >>>>> it seems that there is a lot of initialization that happens with every >>>>> call to the sensor. Is that all necessary? Can we just check for >>>>> changes after the first time? >>>>> >>>>> -walter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> # test to see if DC Mode is enabled >>>>> try: >>>>> self.dcmode = Mixer('DC Mode Enable') >>>>> self.bias = Mixer('V_REFOUT Enable') >>>>> self.has_dcmode = True >>>>> except: >>>>> print "DC Mode unavailable" >>>>> self.has_dcmode = False >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Walter Bender >>>>> Sugar Labs >>>>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arjun Sarwal >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Bender >>> Sugar Labs >>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From tony_anderson at usa.net Sat Jan 3 09:23:43 2009 From: tony_anderson at usa.net (Tony Anderson) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:23:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Fwd: Re: Education on the XO] Message-ID: <495F74EF.8020009@usa.net> Hi, I don't know Merlot. There is a lot of good ingredients in the Connexion site at Rice. Sadly, there is a tremendous body of good ingredients, but all copyrighted. I think in many cases the copyright is not done to restrict use of the materials, but because it is automatic. However, that poses a major hurdle in using the material. The question of partners is central (and the reason I raised the issue). I would think Sugar Labs are an option. The Moodle organization is an option. However, even there the only 'free' course example I could find was the 'Features Demo'. So far as I can tell, the countries are tied up trying to solve immediate deployment problems. While there is a lot of good work being done, it is not easily accessible as ingredients for course building. I would appreciate any ideas you have on how to proceed. Thanks, Tony Caroline Meeks wrote: > Hi Tony, > > I agree that content and activities that are delivered via Moodle should > be an important part of this project. Have you done any research into > what content is currently available? Who do you think are our best > partners for creating and maintaining a collection of K-8 resources that > can be accessed via Moodle? Curriki? Merlot? Which countries are > ahead in this? > > Thanks, > Caroline > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Tony Anderson > wrote: > > Bryan has started a very interesting discussion about what is needed for > the XO to support education. I would like to add my two cents worth. > > We are learning (gaining new experience) every day that we are alive. > The traditional difference in education is that it is organized > learning. Teaching a topic means to provide an organized tour of an area > of knowledge covering what every student should know or be aware of. > > The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, > is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is > ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). > > My vision is that there is a repository (website) which contains free > (CC or similar) courses covering the core curriculum for K-8. The > website needs to be supported by a community of developers (course > creators) and moderators (folks who volunteer to assist teachers and > students who are participating). This repository should also contain > 'elective' courses following the model of Oregon's Saturday Academy > (http://www.saturdayacademy.org/). > > A Moodle course is divided into sections (topics, weeks, ...). Each > section has one or more 'activities' (a word which is very heavily > overloaded). Essentially an 'activity' here is something the course > creator asks the students to do or experience (e.g. read an exposition > on the topic in a wiki page, listen to some music, create an e-toy > project, answer some questions, ...). Moodle provides the teacher with a > wealth of information on the progress of each student. > > This organization suggests that course developers could start a new > course or add sections to an existing course or add activities to an > existing section. It also suggests that teachers in a local community > could 'cut and paste' a course from these elements, adding or modifying > as needed. > > The moderators would be new element. In the case of the Saturday Academy > courses, they could be the 'teacher' working with a 'cohort' of enrolled > students, who could be anywhere in the world. In the case of 'core' > courses, they could provide help to the classroom teacher as well as > helping to mentor students at the invitation of the teacher. For > example, a class in Rwanda studying English could ask a moderator who is > a native English speaker to meet with them at a specified time to tell > them a story or host a chat. The teacher could ask the moderator to > review student submissions (recorded audio or written material) for > appropriate pronunciation or use of the language. > > The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a > body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them > or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, at the > moment, many people in the community do not consider the schoolserver to > be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily aimed at the > university or pre-university level, and most of these are behind > proprietary walls. > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax From walter.bender at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 09:23:51 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:23:51 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: One though--inspired by your earlier comment about how a purely constructionist approach would say that they'll learn to type when they use write or chat: Activities like Memorize and JigSawPuzzle let the learners play right away but also have game-construction features built in. It might be fun to think of ways in which the typing tutor could be modified either by the teacher or the children as part of the process or to capture data in interesting ways. I don't have any non-obvious ideas off the top of my head but something to consider. (races over the mesh, customizable strings, sounds, images, etc. Plotting statistics in Measure, etc.) -walter On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I'm following the format used by programs like MicroType and Mavis Beacon > Teaches Typing (what I personally learned on). Both have demo versions for > Windows available. > > TT will be simple compared with these programs, but they are the general > template. > > We are working towards an alpha in early January.. When it's ready I will > announce it on the sugar list. > > Cheers, > Wade > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Sascha Silbe > wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 07:20:05PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >>> If you have used TuxType, you will know that it's a simplistic typing >>> *practice game* and in no way teaches the user how to type. >> >> I thought that's what you're looking for. How do you imagine a "typing >> teaching activity" to work? >> What does the "Typing Turtle" activity that was mentioned look like? >> >> CU Sascha >> >> -- >> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iQEVAwUBSV6zirpz82VMF3DaAQLpMwgArkQogjN/D+9IUvqvbHlXaduKF6UMaxfg >> JIfTIbdTccjCxuXzqMv90hrFCXEg1stiXqgaWjZpCX5JN+WjDkSQPYxY2oeQQOZj >> 0+TiYbsLwWFOUXPlJkfiJpKXVH+cOu0et5ZIqSPd84MyekxtGqCyb0sd/uKCcu09 >> zr7Ri2ADoQoq1p1XI38m/IqCRyiDtpez9UX8AB2L48tDD15Yhlnh0QMy7EuhYMli >> ZhtW1Ng33pWV9diYkjawmD8vs+rniFtcXKW/IZG63LOV5UZ66eMEGx6CAKV9TXNp >> jOjPW9L5oUZLh0/Cb1hFvKYRzzDuLKijdNcvYWfRKw8Bv0MrkhmOAg== >> =7WVV >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From jns-cmarshall at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 10:47:28 2009 From: jns-cmarshall at comcast.net (Chris Marshall) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:47:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> Message-ID: <495F8890.2070409@comcast.net> It would help if there were a Moodle connection for G1G1 XO-ers. From my limited reading it appears that Moodle is tied in with the XS which means that a G1G1 laptop owner will have no easy way to get started or even to discover the availability or applicability of Moodle. As one example, I've shown a number of teachers the XO and they were very interested to see the laptop. The case would have been *far* more compelling if I had been able to show them more of a classroom use case. Some thoughts: (1) Develop a Moodle activity to let XO users create courseware without a full XS (2) Make a mini-LiveCD of the XS to support Moodle course development and testing. (3) Is Birmingham using Moodle? I've done periodic Googles with no real information on progress, XO usage, ... --Chris Tony Anderson wrote: > > The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, > is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is > ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). > > ...snip... > > The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a > body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them > or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, at the > moment, many people in the community do not consider the schoolserver to > be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily aimed at the > university or pre-university level, and most of these are behind > proprietary walls. From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 3 11:24:21 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:24:21 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <495F8890.2070409@comcast.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <495F8890.2070409@comcast.net> Message-ID: Chris, Is this something that you would be able to look into more deeply? Sugar Labs has a moodle server at schools.sugarlabs.org . But, we don't have anyone with the time and skills to champion the effort yet. There are a lot of interest people! No one with a knowledge of Sugar, Moodle, and content development.... and enough passion led craziness has volunteered to coordinate the effort:( david On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Chris Marshall wrote: > It would help if there were a Moodle connection > for G1G1 XO-ers. From my limited reading it > appears that Moodle is tied in with the XS which > means that a G1G1 laptop owner will have no > easy way to get started or even to discover the > availability or applicability of Moodle. > > As one example, I've shown a number of teachers > the XO and they were very interested to see the > laptop. The case would have been *far* more > compelling if I had been able to show them more > of a classroom use case. > > Some thoughts: > > (1) Develop a Moodle activity to let XO users > create courseware without a full XS > > (2) Make a mini-LiveCD of the XS to support > Moodle course development and testing. > > (3) Is Birmingham using Moodle? I've done > periodic Googles with no real information > on progress, XO usage, ... > > --Chris > > Tony Anderson wrote: >> >> The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, >> is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is >> ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). >> >> ...snip... >> >> The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a >> body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them >> or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, at the >> moment, many people in the community do not consider the schoolserver to >> be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily aimed at the >> university or pre-university level, and most of these are behind >> proprietary walls. > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tony_anderson at usa.net Sat Jan 3 11:50:55 2009 From: tony_anderson at usa.net (Tony Anderson) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:50:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <495F8890.2070409@comcast.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <495F8890.2070409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <495F976F.80002@usa.net> Hi, Creating a Moodle site is quite easy - see http://moodle.org/. It does not require the schoolserver. OLENepal has created a livecd version of XS based on XS-0.4 (see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLE_Nepal:Schoolserver) Clearly, two things are needed. One, a Moodle site for the XO. Two, a set of courses on the site aimed at K-8. Hopefully in the next two months, we will be able to put the existing Nepal course materials online in the form of Moodle courses. Tony Chris Marshall wrote: > It would help if there were a Moodle connection > for G1G1 XO-ers. From my limited reading it > appears that Moodle is tied in with the XS which > means that a G1G1 laptop owner will have no > easy way to get started or even to discover the > availability or applicability of Moodle. > > As one example, I've shown a number of teachers > the XO and they were very interested to see the > laptop. The case would have been *far* more > compelling if I had been able to show them more > of a classroom use case. > > Some thoughts: > > (1) Develop a Moodle activity to let XO users > create courseware without a full XS > > (2) Make a mini-LiveCD of the XS to support > Moodle course development and testing. > > (3) Is Birmingham using Moodle? I've done > periodic Googles with no real information > on progress, XO usage, ... > > --Chris > > Tony Anderson wrote: >> >> The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning >> experiences, is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a >> tool which is ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no >> where to go). >> >> ...snip... >> >> The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not >> a body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build >> them or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, >> at the moment, many people in the community do not consider the >> schoolserver to be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily >> aimed at the university or pre-university level, and most of these are >> behind proprietary walls. > > . > From jns-cmarshall at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 13:33:27 2009 From: jns-cmarshall at comcast.net (Chris Marshall) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:33:27 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <495F8890.2070409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <495FAF77.7010004@comcast.net> Sorry, I am unable to take on this task. I will continue to follow the thread and participate as I can. Regards, Chris David Farning wrote: > Chris, > > Is this something that you would be able to look into more deeply? > Sugar Labs has a moodle server at schools.sugarlabs.org . But, we > don't have anyone with the time and skills to champion the effort yet. > > There are a lot of interest people! No one with a knowledge of Sugar, > Moodle, and content development.... and enough passion led craziness > has volunteered to coordinate the effort:( > > david > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Chris Marshall > wrote: >> It would help if there were a Moodle connection >> for G1G1 XO-ers. From my limited reading it >> appears that Moodle is tied in with the XS which >> means that a G1G1 laptop owner will have no >> easy way to get started or even to discover the >> availability or applicability of Moodle. >> >> As one example, I've shown a number of teachers >> the XO and they were very interested to see the >> laptop. The case would have been *far* more >> compelling if I had been able to show them more >> of a classroom use case. >> >> Some thoughts: >> >> (1) Develop a Moodle activity to let XO users >> create courseware without a full XS >> >> (2) Make a mini-LiveCD of the XS to support >> Moodle course development and testing. >> >> (3) Is Birmingham using Moodle? I've done >> periodic Googles with no real information >> on progress, XO usage, ... >> >> --Chris >> >> Tony Anderson wrote: >>> The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, >>> is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is >>> ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). >>> >>> ...snip... >>> >>> The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a >>> body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them >>> or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Unfortunately, at the >>> moment, many people in the community do not consider the schoolserver to >>> be essential, existing Moodle courses are primarily aimed at the >>> university or pre-university level, and most of these are behind >>> proprietary walls. From bryan at olenepal.org Sat Jan 3 13:57:13 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:57:13 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] web-based activities (was Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: <242851610901030126t1894ef2am6bcb0232be625d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901021018r4c84d249r8b348dc126c4bbe9@mail.gmail.com> <1230924646.17108.76.camel@hitman> <242851610901030126t1894ef2am6bcb0232be625d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231009033.32208.63.camel@hitman> On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 10:26 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 20:30, Bryan Berry wrote: > > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 19:18 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> without needing to get into what is better for our deployments, I do > >> see value in making easier to make Sugar activities using technologies > >> such as HTML, CSS, etc > >> Bryan, can we get into a more detailed view on what it would take > >> ideally to create a new activity using such activities? Which would be > >> the steps that an experienced web designer would need to take in order > >> to create a Sugar activity? > > > > Presently, we do the following to run flash activities on the XO > > > > 1) download the Firefox3.xo bundle > > 2) change the activity.info file > > 3) change some of the file and directory names to reference > > EPaathActivity instead of FirefoxActivity > > 4) copy the swf (flash) files to ./activity/Activity/Activities (I know > > it's ugly > > 5) change the firefoxactivity.py > > ff = [ './firefox' ] > > to > > ff = [ './firefox', './activity/Activity/Activities/OurSWF.htm'] > > Doesn't sound too complicated. How is it working right now? Which are > the biggest issues? How do you envision this should be done instead? The biggest issue we have is that Browse doesn't support tabs and that it is a pain to read a pdf document inside of Browse or launch it from Firefox3. We are using Firefox 3 but some unpleasant stuff happens when we launch a new full-screen window. Most unpleasant is that the new window can't be killed from Sugar. > >> I'm sure that someone with basic knowledge of python could create some > >> tools that make it much more easier than it is today. Also have some > >> ideas about how those activities could interact with the journal and > >> other Sugar features. Agreed. It would be particularly useful for python testing tools that a flash or javascript developer could use to tell if his activity will run properly on the XO according to simple metrics. Those metrics would be 1) audio file not too large 2) activity fits w/in XO screen resolution. 3) animation not heavy for the XO. Additionally, all activity designers need better tools to tell them if their xo bundle is properly formed. > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Tomeu > > > > Again, this requires people to learn python, a whole new language that > > they don't necessarily use at work. We need to enable developers to be > > very productive in just 2-3 hours per week. For them to be productive > > they need to be using tools they are already familiar w/. > > > > Python is a tool popular among sysadmins and hackers. It is great tool. > > But folks who develop web UIs use css, html, javascript, and flash. I > > highly doubt that will change in the near or distant future. These are > > people we need to recruit as activity designers. > > I guess I was unclear in my proposal. What I was talking about is > creating a set of tools that the web developers would use. A python > coder would write and maintain them and the web developers would use > them to deploy their work. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 02:50, Bryan Berry wrote: > >> > This is a draft of a multi-part article I plan to post to OLPC News. > >> > > >> > It is very long but I would very much appreciate your opinions and > >> > feedback. Your input will make it a better article once published. > >> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >> > This OLPC project seems to be going pretty well as of late December > >> > 2008. G1G1 v2 is well underway, there are a number of successful pilots > >> > going on, and a number of larger-scale pilots will come online this > >> > spring and coming summer. > >> > > >> > Still, there is a big gaping whole in the middle of our little education > >> > project. There just aren't enough activities. Mind you, we have some > >> > seriously awesome activities such as Etoys, Scratch, TamTam, and others. > >> > We have tremendous depth but very limited breadth. > >> > > >> > By breadth, I mean interactive activities for language, history, > >> > geology, health, etc. In order to expand the range of activities, we > >> > need to recruit a lot more activity developers and make it dead-simple > >> > for them to contribute. > >> > > >> > But Which Developers? > >> > > >> > Let's think about who we want to recruit. We're talking about breadth > >> > here so we need experts on Nepali grammar, Pashto vocabulary, Philippine > >> > history, and Andean geography. The good news is that there are > >> > technically-oriented people out there that know these things and want to > >> > help. > >> > > >> > We already have a hardcore team of dedicated hackers. We need them for > >> > the work that hackers excel at: building infrastructure, testing the > >> > limits of new systems. But now we need a different class of developer, > >> > those that are focused on the presentation, game play and not system > >> > internals. > >> > > >> > Based on these characteristics, let's call these people > >> > designers. The good news is that there are lots of > >> > designers-particularly in developing countries-that want to contribute > >> > to OLPC. The bad news is that they don't know python. or GTK+. They may > >> > not even be familiar with linux. They do know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and > >> > Adobe Flash. Allow me to explain. > >> > > >> > Due to rise of the Internet and related boom in outsourcing, the vast, > >> > vast majority of programmers in developing countries are web developers > >> > (according to my own grossly unscientific survey). The rise of the > >> > Internet has also led a lot of talented graphic designers in developing > >> > and developed countries to learn web technologies. I even > >> > wager that CSS/HTML/Javascript will become the de facto GUI technologies > >> > in a few years time. >> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygtk">PyGTK won't take over the > >> > world nor will VB.net. > >> > > >> > The popular term for this triumvirate of technologies is >> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX">AJAX, with the difference > >> > that AJAX applications typically require communication with a remote > >> > server. I propose using web technologies for completely offline > >> > activities. Adobe's Flash is basically a variant of AJAX that uses > >> > dialects of Javascript ( >> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actionscript">Actionscript) and > >> > XML (MXML). > >> > > >> > Very few programmers in the developed world get paid to write desktop > >> > linux apps. Still, open-source developers find learn and build pygtk, > >> > mono, and KDE apps in their free-time. Developers in the developing > >> > world are extremely enthusiastic about FOSS but not nearly as prolific > >> > in creating open-source software due to a phenomenon I > >> > call the "FOSS-Nepal Paradox." > >> > > >> > The >> > href="http://wiki.fossnepal.org/index.php?title=The_FOSS_Nepal_Community">FOSS Nepal community has won the award for best celebration of Software Freedom day for two years in a running. Despite all this enthusiasm the FOSS Nepal community is not very prolific in producing open-source code. The reason for this is that Nepal is not a wealthy country and that Open-Source is expensive to produce. > >> > > >> > Open-Source is Expensive > >> > > >> > Open-source software voraciously consumes a resource even more valuable > >> > than hard cash, programmer time. Linus Torvalds could afford to spend > >> > some of the most productive years of his life working without immediate > >> > financial benefit. He could slack off in his classes without fear of > >> > unemployment upon graduation. I doubt his parents were counting on him > >> > to support them financially once he got a job. > >> > > >> > Most talented Nepali programmers I know do not have those luxuries. They > >> > are under a lot of pressure to support their parents and extended > >> > families, financially and otherwise. So Nepalis, Bangladeshis, Peruanos, > >> > etc. certainly have the passion and ability to contribute to open-source > >> > but their free time is significantly more limited. > >> > > >> > This doesn't mean that we should rely on developers from rich countries. > >> > We simply need to radically lower the amount of time required to create > >> > learning activities. I believe that many, many developers in the > >> > developing world can contribute 3-5 hours per week. To make those few > >> > hours productive we need to rework the default activity framework. > >> > > >> > >From what I can tell, the primary design goals of the default PyGTK > >> > activity > >> > framework are as follows: > >> > > >> >
  1. Give the programmer maximum flexibility
  2. Fully exploit > >> > the XO's hardware features
  3. Mesh nicely with Sugar
> >> > > >> > These three goals are laudable and their hacker roots are obvious. The > >> > problem is that these goals maximize the technology's potential rather > >> > than programmer productivity. We need reach beyond the vi/emacs crowd > >> > (Note: I wrote this article using emacs) to thos folks that the masters > >> > of Photoshop, Adobe Illustrator, Eclipse, and GIMP. > >> > > >> > I propose a new set of design goals: > >> > > >> >
    > >> >
  1. Allow activity designers to quickly build activities utilizing > >> > widely-used tools.
    2. > >> >
  2. Quickly reward effort with working behavior
    3. > >> >
  3. Mesh nicely with the Sugar UI
    4. > >> >
> >> > > >> > It's OK to be Opinionated > >> > > >> > We need an opinionated activity framework that makes infrastructure > >> > choices for the designer so that she can focus presentation and > >> > gameplay. Some may recognize this as the principle of >> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_Configuration">Convention Over Configuration, a principle that two of the most popular web frameworks, Django and RubyOnRails, adhere to. Now a lot of geeks don't like Convention over Configuration--perl hackers especially--but they sure do allow you to create nice applications very quickly. > >> > > >> > Establishing an "opinionated" activity framework will in no way limit > >> > the freedom of those hackers who want to go their own way. They can > >> > always build their own activities from whatever tools they choose. The > >> > whole point of a framework is to help people get started quickly but it > >> > doesn't constrain anyone. > >> > > >> > This concludes part I. Here are some tantalizing morsels from Part II > >> > of "How to Make Activity Designers Happy," > >> > > >> >
    > >> >
  • Where it's at: HTML, CSS, Javascript, and *gasp* Flash
    • > >> >
  • Nepal's Content Development Experience
    • > >> >
  • Aren't Kids going to create all learning activities so we don't > >> > have to?
    • > >> >
> >> > > >> > > >> > Bryan Berry is the Technology Director of >> > href="http://www.olenepal.org">OLE Nepal and deadbeat co-editor of > >> > OLPCNews.com. Christopher Marin contributed his knowledge about all > >> > things web to this article > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > In part 1, I talked about the paradoxical > >> > nature of open-source communities in developing countries, flaws in > >> > the current default activity development framework, and the urgent > >> > need for a new framework that makes activity designers happy. > >> > > >> > By happy, I mean that the framework rewards their efforts almost > >> > immediately (roughly 15 minutes of effort) and it lets them focus on > >> > presentation and gameplay rather than infrastructure. Last time I > >> > offered some vague ideas how this framework might function. This time > >> > I will provide more details how this framework could work and why. > >> > > >> > Let's Ride The Internet Wave > >> > > >> > The Internet is the 300-pound gorilla in the software-engineering room > >> > it will eat virtually everything, including your favorite desktop GUI > >> > framework. All of the IDE's bend over backwards to support coding of > >> > webapps, whether it is emacs, eclipse, or even vim. The software > >> > industry is making huge investments into web technologies that support > >> > the triumvirate of HTML/CSS/Javascript, witness Google's investment in > >> > V8 javascript compiler and > >> > Apple's investment in >> > href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit">Webkit. I speculate > >> > that there are many, many more developers working on GUI toolkits for > >> > the web browser- such as JQuery, Prototype, Script.aculo.us-than for > >> > GNOME or KDE desktop frameworks. > >> > > >> > The web will keep innovating at a breakneck pace. We need to ride that > >> > wave of innovation. > >> > > >> > In the early days of OLPC, we all had a lot of grandiose and > >> > impractical ideas. The educational systems of developing countries > >> > would change overnight into constructionist hotbeds. Kids would build > >> > their own activities, eliminating the need for large investments in > >> > content development. A million PyGTK apps with built-in collaboration > >> > and "View-Source" key would spontaneously bloom . . . Well, we're > >> > older and wiser now. School systems anywhere are not blank slates that > >> > we can redraw from scratch using cheap laptops and Etoys. Similarly, > >> > we cannot expect thousands of developers to flock to a framework > >> > (PyGTK) that is not commercially popular. > >> > > >> > Developing Country Developer Economics > >> > > >> > As I wrote in Part I, the economics of open-source in developing > >> > countries is quite different than that in the developed > >> > world. Developers there have ample enthusiasm for open-source but much > >> > less time to contribute. > >> > > >> > We need to lower the barrier of entry significantly in order to use > >> > their talents. In fact, we need to entice non-programmers such as > >> > graphic designers. In my limited experience, graphic designers are > >> > much better at designing learning activities than programmers. They > >> > better appreciate aesthetics and visual story-telling. > >> > > >> > Web designers layout their work using CSS and (X)HTML. They implement > >> > user interaction and animations using Javascript. They design their > >> > work using Photoshop, GIMP, Adobe Illustrator, and sometimes > >> > Eclipse. They know the features and dark areas of the Firefox web > >> > browser. Sugar infrastructure developers, these people are your > >> > customers. We need KARMA to enable them to quickly buidl activities > >> > for the XO without having to learn a whole new skillset. From a > >> > programmatic point of view, Browse needs to behave as much as possible > >> > like Firefox. Any discrepancy will distract activity designers from > >> > the more rewarding parts of activity development. > >> > > >> > Building Good KARMA > >> > > >> > Before we get too far, let's give this new activity framework a name > >> > so I can save us all a lot of excess verbiage. I call it KARMA, > >> > because the word is loosely-related to Nepal, my current residence, > >> > and I like to think creating open-source learning activities gives an > >> > individual good karma. Coincidentally, it is also the first two > >> > syllables of Rabi Karmacharya's last name--an individual put a ton of > >> > hard work and personal sacrifice into the OLPC project in Nepal. > >> > > >> > Well, I haven't actually made up my mind what the core technologies of > >> > KARMA > >> > should be. I need your help to work it out. Before I get into the > >> > technologies, here are my priorities. 1) These tools maximize > >> > programmer productivity and 2) are open-soure. Priority #1 is much > >> > more important than #2. 100% purely open-source activities that don't > >> > exist don't help kids learn. The current pygtk framework is purely > >> > open-source but you have to become a unix programmer to use it. As I > >> > noted in Part I, the vast, vast majority of programmers in the > >> > developing world are web developers and a successful activity > >> > framework will allow them to re-use their existing skills and tools. > >> > > >> > I have settled on HTML and CSS for the presentation but it is tougher > >> > to decide on the scripting toolset and on persistent data > >> > storage. Flash handles animations really well and it is easy to > >> > integrate audio into the animations. Adobe sells some really nice > >> > WYSIWYG tools for editing animation and adding audio. A lot of > >> > developers know flash so there is a large pool of talent we can draw > >> > from. Did I forget to mention that Flash is proprietary? > >> > > >> > The closed-source issue not withstanding, Flash is the tool to > >> > use. Some may be upset that Flash doesn't lend itself to "View Source" > >> > functionality but learning programming is not the sum total of > >> > education. Kids can do all the programming they ever want to w/ the > >> > excellent Etoys and Scratch. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but > >> > Afghani kids won't be able to view the source of Pashto grammar > >> > activities that don't exist, let alone interactively learn the rules > >> > of Pashto grammar. > >> > > >> > Flash Ain't Open-Source > >> > > >> > Flash is not _as_ closed-source as other software applications like > >> > Windows. The Adobe has published the specification for their SWF file > >> > format and the ActionScript 3.0 compiler is open-source. However, the > >> > Adobe's development tools such as Adobe Animator, Illustrator, > >> > Photoshop, etc. are not open-source. Nor is Adobe's flash player > >> > plugin. There is the open-source Gnash player but it does not fully > >> > support Actionscript 3 or Flash version 9. Rob Savoye and his team at > >> > Open Media Now do a great job but they seriously lack resources. Note: > >> > Rob > >> > Savoye, please correct my egregious errors. > >> > > >> > Javascript Isn't Ready > >> > > >> > I put in a good number of research hours into this article. I really, > >> > really wanted to find a pure javascript framework that could compete > >> > with Flash. I couldn't find one that does. There are libraries like > >> > DOJO, JQuery, and Processing.js > >> > http://ejohn.org/blog/processingjs/. Unfortunately, there aren't any > >> > IDE's that provide WYSIWYG animation editing for these tools. Every > >> > try to edit photos from a text editor? It's painful, really > >> > painful. So while real programmers use emacs (or vi, joe, sam, etc.), > >> > designers use WYSIWYG GUI's. > >> > > >> > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash > >> > can. Ouch, it's a pain in the ass to couple animations with sound > >> > files. Based on my research so far, pure javascript won't be able to > >> > compete with Flash for at least the next several years. Please prove > >> > me wrong. Please post a comment to this article linking to some > >> > Javascript wonderfulness that pulls even with Flash. > >> > > >> > > >> > I will continue with the assumption that KARMA will use flash. I will > >> > happily revise this article ex post facto if someone in cyberspace > >> > points me to a pure javascript solution that makes activity designers > >> > happy. > >> > > >> > Building Momentum for Gnash > >> > > >> > I believe that the best way to increase interest in fully open-source > >> > flash is to make Flash more central in the evolving open-source > >> > education stack rather than minimizing its role. We definitely cannot > >> > wait for Gnash to fully support every feature of the proprietary flash > >> > before we begin using it. Open-Source starts when a single developer > >> > "scratches an itch" as the proverb goes. It follows then that the best > >> > way to bring Gnash up to speed we need to create a nasty, festering > >> > sore that irritates the open-source community into action. > >> > > >> > Moving the Conversation Forward > >> > > >> > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > >> > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you recognize > >> > that we need a more developer-centric activity framework that uses web > >> > technologies. > >> > > >> > I have a lot more to write about Nepal's experiences developing > >> > learning activities and my ideas on Convention over Configuration in > >> > sugar activities. I will save those for another day. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Bryan W. Berry > >> > Technology Director > >> > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > >> > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > >> > > > -- > > Bryan W. Berry > > Technology Director > > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > > > -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Sat Jan 3 14:04:10 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:04:10 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> Message-ID: <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 07:31 -0500, Tony Anderson wrote: > The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, > is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is > ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). Thanks for bringing this up Tony. I didn't properly address moodle in my very long article about Karma, a new activity framework for Sugar. Whatever karma or the default activity framework Sugar become, a key element will be easy integration with moodle. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sun Jan 4 08:37:05 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:37:05 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090104133705.GA11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:42:21PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I'm following the format used by programs like MicroType and Mavis > Beacon > Teaches Typing (what I personally learned on). Both have demo > versions for > Windows available. Do you know where I could find some screenshots or similar showing the basic concept? I don't really fancy booting Windows and downloading a 380MB (!) demo. Otherwise... > We are working towards an alpha in early January.. When it's ready I > will > announce it on the sugar list. ... I'll just wait for that one. :) CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/f3ffa31e/attachment-0001.pgp From billkerr at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 09:16:39 2009 From: billkerr at gmail.com (Bill Kerr) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:46:39 +1030 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <5d2dce520901040616u283dd3ads181121a84a30d4cd@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > > > (3) We need lots more Activities. > > While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the > best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more > developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. I think what we need are quality activities from both a technical and educational perspective, which is a different position from more activities The way I read Bryan's position is that it is based on some particularities of the Nepal situation some of which have been spelt out in the article but some other educational conditions which were not spelt out What has been spelt out: - Nepal is a poor country cf Uruguay and other Latin American countries (Purchasing Power Parity PPP$ adjusted income per person Uruguay 8,653; Nepal 1052) - Most Nepal teachers have not seen computers before unlike their Latin American counterparts - Nepal developers have existing skills in certain technologies (HTML, CSS, Javsscript, Flash) and not in others (Python, PyGTK) - Nepal developers are time strapped and have strong obligations to their families - They do have time and willingness to contribute to more activities but that requires acceptance, understanding and incorporation of their existing skill set into the sugar project What was not spelt out (Bryan will correct me if I am incorrect): - Existing Nepal curriculum is very structured - Strong pressure on teachers and students to pass existing curriculum because of penalties involved for failing I can see the logic of Bryan's position when the whole spectrum of Nepal circumstances are spelt out but I'm wondering how much these factors, some of which are local to Nepal, should influence the whole project. How much should Bryan's Nepal necessity - FOSS paradox be transferred to the whole project of activity development? Local factors - such as the ability and willingness of the existing education system to bend and adapt - will influence how the project develops in different countries. I'll write another comment which addresses the issues raised about foundational skills and constructivism (by Bryan, Walter, Wade) The main point I'm trying to make in this comment is that there may well be a difference between the current Nepal necessity of developing more activities due to all the factors above (local issues) and what I see as the general need for quality activities. I don't see processes or much discussion for quality control from an educational perspective in place. Making activity developers happy is not the same thing as making all educators happy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090105/d33e93ba/attachment.htm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 4 09:32:00 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:32:00 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <5d2dce520901040616u283dd3ads181121a84a30d4cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <1230927913.17108.110.camel@hitman> <5d2dce520901040616u283dd3ads181121a84a30d4cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901040632h2fff0572g56da8b06cec7fbd4@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 15:16, Bill Kerr wrote: > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Bryan Berry wrote: >> >> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 15:18 -0500, Walter Bender wrote: >> >> > (3) We need lots more Activities. >> >> While there is consensus on this point, there is not consensus on the >> best way to get a lot more Activities. That is, pulling a lot more >> developers into building learning activities that run on Sugar. > > I think what we need are quality activities from both a technical and > educational perspective, which is a different position from more activities > > The way I read Bryan's position is that it is based on some particularities > of the Nepal situation some of which have been spelt out in the article but > some other educational conditions which were not spelt out > > What has been spelt out: > > Nepal is a poor country cf Uruguay and other Latin American countries > (Purchasing Power Parity PPP$ adjusted income per person Uruguay 8,653; > Nepal 1052) > Most Nepal teachers have not seen computers before unlike their Latin > American counterparts > Nepal developers have existing skills in certain technologies (HTML, CSS, > Javsscript, Flash) and not in others (Python, PyGTK) > Nepal developers are time strapped and have strong obligations to their > families > They do have time and willingness to contribute to more activities but that > requires acceptance, understanding and incorporation of their existing > skill set into the sugar project > > What was not spelt out (Bryan will correct me if I am incorrect): > > Existing Nepal curriculum is very structured > Strong pressure on teachers and students to pass existing curriculum because > of penalties involved for failing > > I can see the logic of Bryan's position when the whole spectrum of Nepal > circumstances are spelt out but I'm wondering how much these factors, some > of which are local to Nepal, should influence the whole project. How much > should Bryan's Nepal necessity - FOSS paradox be transferred to the whole > project of activity development? Well, I see the changes requested by Bryan as additive, so potentially not causing any harm to other users of Sugar. Of course, for OLPC Nepal would make more sense if their work on top of Sugar is used by others, so the burden of maintaining it would be shared. Also, by discussing it with the community first, other users of Sugar can detect areas where it would be worth joining forces, thus decreasing the burden of initial development. Regards, Tomeu > Local factors - such as the ability and willingness of the existing > education system to bend and adapt - will influence how the project develops > in different countries. > > I'll write another comment which addresses the issues raised about > foundational skills and constructivism (by Bryan, Walter, Wade) > > The main point I'm trying to make in this comment is that there may well be > a difference between the current Nepal necessity of developing more > activities due to all the factors above (local issues) and what I see as the > general need for quality activities. I don't see processes or much > discussion for quality control from an educational perspective in place. > Making activity developers happy is not the same thing as making all > educators happy. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From wadetb at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 10:23:57 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:23:57 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <20090104133705.GA11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> <20090104133705.GA11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901040723h64661cd5pacaf43d7f9f60259@mail.gmail.com> I know Mavis has a simplified flash version on their website. On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Sascha Silbe < sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 08:42:21PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > I'm following the format used by programs like MicroType and Mavis Beacon >> Teaches Typing (what I personally learned on). Both have demo versions >> for >> Windows available. >> > Do you know where I could find some screenshots or similar showing the > basic concept? > I don't really fancy booting Windows and downloading a 380MB (!) demo. > Otherwise... > > We are working towards an alpha in early January.. When it's ready I will >> announce it on the sugar list. >> > ... I'll just wait for that one. :) > > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSWC7gbpz82VMF3DaAQIthAf9FYjDR/jthfsnaQnZV5pLifKTrQxWGzY8 > LQBrGPZQRa2D2+0jnvmiSCqsxKZXIuZArUbJP2pt7RSJ+T2w6UygZkbu81SStMmX > AyOtTpKHjQniJzz15rozw23hXVTP1Qo2gncZambMgG123jb2q1D79GUPZL1yczFP > sxrvW+13tlQq8PjUwuTnZiD8h3EG9wlQpGXWJuBXtNiqg2g1M7B8fO12dMkeTrBg > VLt9Y8jBgMY50ecvg7qpSDK9fn1fF78TPGEljEiPlf7AslDK3p7/4BplfwZKwGDh > zhT69cCub/fY01CJ5aUFe5xav9/WJiWD8rLU2pU5PZXI/FJuZLNOeg== > =AKsd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/b85b669b/attachment.htm From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sun Jan 4 11:26:17 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 17:26:17 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901040723h64661cd5pacaf43d7f9f60259@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> <20090104133705.GA11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901040723h64661cd5pacaf43d7f9f60259@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090104162617.GB11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 10:23:57AM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I know Mavis has a simplified flash version on their website. Got a URL? Cannot find it, even after half an hour of searching the web (most hits are online software stores). The screenshots I found suggest at least the included "typing games" are similar to TuxType (haven't found ones showing anything else). CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/11f136a4/attachment.pgp From wadetb at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 12:11:07 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:11:07 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <20090104162617.GB11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021742i49aaa97rd70d2a8992e8b217@mail.gmail.com> <20090104133705.GA11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901040723h64661cd5pacaf43d7f9f60259@mail.gmail.com> <20090104162617.GB11101@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901040911j1208950an50c169aa787f17b8@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBgc55sEsI On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Sascha Silbe < sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 10:23:57AM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > I know Mavis has a simplified flash version on their website. >> > Got a URL? Cannot find it, even after half an hour of searching the web > (most hits are online software stores). > The screenshots I found suggest at least the included "typing games" are > similar to TuxType (haven't found ones showing anything else). > > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSWDjKbpz82VMF3DaAQKK/Qf/fihyyFU/Ci4nESfoTOo7C4+ROjNRaEDw > JcPXnuicA37jZEHLkYOmFvdSh2Bl9vZB38Wh5EbI5LtZXaODMJPy/yrq5lVLFrJj > imyula2fWezNOSZHhvGl2TifCWTQo/IhL9KmtBZ2nCIX9zUFdsqdyB7ofxok/RMJ > XgKDMXs1Ap/AKHT6S5OBR6S0npGSoz3/x2F3mCsyaDg0PtYoOzvOQLlb+rtOIwBv > IMWvhjR2XumUT0/yZtI4URZgroTLh4wfy8v5PF5J1TobMpDp9ozYQsxoPUh2wJa8 > XJ1uJyU5V4BMhRVcFmZUs2G6437jFthhEuLNMrtkq18mUpsC+4qiig== > =hiYJ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/6a5f5566/attachment.htm From dvanassche at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 16:32:16 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:32:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> Actually there are a whole bunch of examples I uploaded to schools.sugarlabs.org, the problem we have is of how to categorise them. ie... do we put them via subject, via class, via country, via language? The infrastructure needs to be discussed and then agreed upon. That's the main reason why I didn't upload anything else. That and I realised I'm the only one adding anything to the site ;-) That said, the entire Open University content is creative commons, and can be easily ported.... and there are many sources across the internet that offer moodle material in various languages. I pasted a list of the best curriculum and learning sources on schools.sugarlabs.org. There are enough examples up there for course creators to get an idea of how to create an effective learning course, and even some usable courses (intro to gimp, intro to networking, etc.) Moodle is really quite simple to get the hang off, but like everything else, it requires putting time into it. If there are any course content creators out there, I'd love to hear their ideas, and if they need help with creating courses on the schools.sugarlabs.org site, I believe I can help. I also began creating a database of all the activities so that they can easily be searched for, categorised, etc. but I read that this was being done elsewhere so again, I didn't continue down that avenue, but I'll gladly continue if its of use... kind Regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 07:31 -0500, Tony Anderson wrote: >> The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, >> is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is >> ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). > > Thanks for bringing this up Tony. I didn't properly address moodle in my > very long article about Karma, a new activity framework for Sugar. > Whatever karma or the default activity framework Sugar become, a key > element will be easy integration with moodle. > > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > From michael at laptop.org Sun Jan 4 17:55:39 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 17:55:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] anonymous gray activity circles In-Reply-To: <495FBB3D.5080800@comcast.net> References: <495B7F96.7060308@usa.net> <495FBB3D.5080800@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090104225539.GL3164@didacte.laptop.org> On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 02:23:41PM -0500, Chris Marshall wrote: >Two specific questions come to mind: > >(1) How does Sugar know that a new top level > window has been instantiated? Is there a > hook from the X server or what? Here's a short code tour for your enjoyment. I'll start by tracing backwards from what we know: 1. Clone the sugar source code: git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar/mainline.git sugar 2. We know that things including gray circles appear in the top part of the frame. What causes this? cd sugar find . -name '*frame*' # Inspiration! cd src/jarabe/frame 3. Start reading files here looking for info about how the frame is constructed. Ah hah! We find out from src/jarabe/frame/frame.py that the frame consists of four panels. http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/frame.py#line117 What goes in the top panel? Read _create_top_panel(): http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/frame.py#line177 Bingo! An ActivitiesTray()! 4. Go find ActivitiesTray(): First, search for "ActivitiesTray". Find the import line at http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/frame.py#line29 Next, go read src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py looking for the definition of ActivitiesTray() http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py#line299 5. Figure out what message causes the tray to add icons. Doesn't that __activity_added_cb() callback look suspicious? Let's figure out what causes self._home_model to generate 'activity-added' signals. 6. Track down self._home_model. Ah! In ActivitiesTray.__init__, we set it equal to shell.get_model(). Where does the variable "shell" come from? From here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py#line39 7. Track down 'get_model' in src/jarabe/model/shell.py http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line573 So what's a ShellModel? 8. Look more carefully at ShellModel. We find the definition of the 'activity-added' signal here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line282 alongside several other tasty-sounding signals. ... Oooh, look at the __init__ method: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line310 Doesn't that "window-open" signal sound interesting? 9. Review. We've pretty much figured out the chain of events that results in the appearance of a new button on the frame's top panel's activities tray. Moreover, while we still don't really know why the buttons sometimes display gray circles vs activity icons or how to remove a button, we can be fairly sure that the answers lie close by, e.g. (where the gray circles come from:) http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py#line67 and back in jarabe.model.shell.ShellModel, which seems to be driving the show w.r.t. to the display and removal of items in the ActivitiesTray. 10. Forward. The questions which remain include: a) What things are driving the ShellModel? Are they doing so correctly? hint: nope. read http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line434 http://standards.freedesktop.org/startup-notification-spec/startup-notification-latest.txt (also, please help me get the ideas in the patches at the top of http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/mstone/sugar and http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/mstone/sugar-toolkit merged which, while they won't solve your problem, may still be generally useful.) b) What icon data should we be feeding into those buttons? Where does it come from? hint: read http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/latest/ http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/latest/ar01s05.html#id2569669 and start asking questions. Hope this helps, Michael From mikus at bga.com Sun Jan 4 20:15:54 2009 From: mikus at bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:15:54 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] anonymous gray activity circles Message-ID: <49615F4A.5010104@bga.com> > Here's a short code tour for your enjoyment. Thank you very much, Michael. This is very helpful. Would it be possible for you (or someone else) to similarly enumerate the conditions under which 'anonymous gray activity circles' are made to disappear ? I don't have difficulty with gray circles while activities are running (I can figure out which circle is which session) -- but it leaves an untidy impression when the session itself goes away, but the gray circle does not. [In fact, I once saw so many leftover gray circles that the top bar of Frame showed "arrowheads" for the viewer to scroll back and forth within the "ActivitiesTray".] Maybe if I can understand *why* gray circles might persist, I might be able to think of a way to force leftover useless ones to go away. [I would guess a gray circle left behind by a session could only be gotten rid of by restarting Sugar.] mikus From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 4 20:38:51 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:38:51 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Flash at Sugar Labs Message-ID: Bryan Berry started a great thread about activity development a few days ago. In the initial post he proposed using flash as means of developing content. Before taking the thread any farther I though we should stop and look at what flash actually is. The term flash is often interchangeably used as: 1. A brand 2. A player 3. A development environment 4. A protocol Yep, confusing. As we continue the discussion, I thought we should look at how 'flash' relates to Sugar and to more generally to OLPC and Open Source. I have CCed MaryBeth from Open Media Now and Rob from Gnash to help clarify the many shortcomings in my explanations. First, the brand - Flash is primarily a brand. It was originally created by MacroMedia and has been purchased by Adobe. The brand consists of the player, IDE, protocol, and the support and marketing provided by Adobe. As a brand, Flash is competing head-to-head with Microsoft's Silverlight. Second, the player - The most visible part of flash is the player. The _Adobe_Flash_Player is a proprietary product which is developed, supported, and distributed by Adobe. Currently, the Adobe Flash Player can only be distributed with Adobe's permission. Binary code for the player can be downloaded for most operating systems and distributions. Third party redistribution is strictly prohibited without permission. As such it would not be possible for Sugar Labs to distribute the Adobe_Flash_Player in its code bundles. Deployments can, and often do, add the Player as an available activity. The Player can be legally redistributed over an organization's intra-net. Third, the authoring tools - Adobe's business model is to give away the player and sell the authoring tools. As a result, Adobe sells several very good, yet, expensive authoring tools. Adobe's development tool costs approximately $750 US. Fourth, the Standards - Flash deliverables come in two formats .swf and .flv. Swf and ActionScript, the development language use to create .swfs have been open sourced. I believe that the ActionScript source code is jointly held by Adobe and Mozilla. There are possible legal questions about the patent encumberment status of some of the media codecs used in swfs and flvs. We would need clarification from the Software Freedom Conservancy on these issues. So, counting backwards how does this affect Sugar Lab? Fourth, the Standards - We need to wait for feedback from the SFC and Open Media Now. Third, the authoring tools - Adobe has done a very effective job eliminating the competition for flash authoring tools. http://osflash.org/ has a number of open source development tools. I am not enough of a flash developer to judge if the authoring products are mature enough to be useful or not. Are there any Flash developers out there, can you judge the quality of some of these products? Second, the player - The Free Software Foundation has flash player project called Gnash. The project is makin slow yet steady progress towards being a fully capable swf player. The project suffers from lack of support. Many Open Source users either download the Adobe player or forgo using flash. The itch factor is pretty low. As a product, Gnash is approaching, yet is not yet ready for, prime time. I spent New Years Day with my sister's kids( ages 11, 7, and 4) looking at their favorites sites under Ubuntu/Flash, Ubuntu/Gnash, Xo/Flash, and Xo,Flash. I bet that was the first time they have ever heard a adult tell them to, 'come on, play it again, just one more time, please...' about their favorite games:) There was a steady decrease in the availability and usability of sites with Xo and Gnash. We need to wait for feedback from Gnash about the product's technical limitations and the project's development limitations. Finally, the brand - Adobe has recently asked Gnash to call their player a SWF player rather than a flash player:) I appreciate your feedback on the technical aspect of Bryan's propose. In the next few days, I will try to summarize the (1) organization/development and (2) the educational/pedagogically issues of his proposal. thanks david From wadetb at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 21:23:44 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:23:44 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> Personally, I don't believe that Sugar Labs the organization needs to be concerned with any of these four points. The question is whether the Sugar *software* is flexible enough to adapt to the needs of its users. Who are we to say what they should install, and what tools they should use to make their content? Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not specifically designed for it. This precludes smaller organizations who cannot design custom Sugar activities from producing good content. Once the Sugar software is more flexible and able to run arbitrary programs (Gnash, Flash, Silverlight, GTK, Qt) without massive time investment and hacking on the part of the content producers, the other questions won't even reach this list. Best regards, Wade On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:38 PM, David Farning wrote: > Bryan Berry started a great thread about activity development a few > days ago. In the initial post he proposed using flash as means of > developing content. Before taking the thread any farther I though we > should stop and look at what flash actually is. > > The term flash is often interchangeably used as: > 1. A brand > 2. A player > 3. A development environment > 4. A protocol > > Yep, confusing. As we continue the discussion, I thought we should > look at how 'flash' relates to Sugar and to more generally to OLPC and > Open Source. I have CCed MaryBeth from Open Media Now and Rob from > Gnash to help clarify the many shortcomings in my explanations. > > First, the brand - > Flash is primarily a brand. It was originally created by MacroMedia > and has been purchased by Adobe. The brand consists of the player, > IDE, protocol, and the support and marketing provided by Adobe. As a > brand, Flash is competing head-to-head with Microsoft's Silverlight. > > Second, the player - > The most visible part of flash is the player. The _Adobe_Flash_Player > is a proprietary product which is developed, supported, and > distributed by Adobe. Currently, the Adobe Flash Player can only be > distributed with Adobe's permission. Binary code for the player can > be downloaded for most operating systems and distributions. > > Third party redistribution is strictly prohibited without permission. > As such it would not be possible for Sugar Labs to distribute the > Adobe_Flash_Player in its code bundles. Deployments can, and often > do, add the Player as an available activity. The Player can be > legally redistributed over an organization's intra-net. > > Third, the authoring tools - > Adobe's business model is to give away the player and sell the > authoring tools. As a result, Adobe sells several very good, yet, > expensive authoring tools. Adobe's development tool costs > approximately $750 US. > > Fourth, the Standards - > Flash deliverables come in two formats .swf and .flv. Swf and > ActionScript, the development language use to create .swfs have been > open sourced. I believe that the ActionScript source code is jointly > held by Adobe and Mozilla. There are possible legal questions about > the patent encumberment status of some of the media codecs used in > swfs and flvs. We would need clarification from the Software Freedom > Conservancy on these issues. > > So, counting backwards how does this affect Sugar Lab? > Fourth, the Standards - > We need to wait for feedback from the SFC and Open Media Now. > > Third, the authoring tools - > Adobe has done a very effective job eliminating the competition for > flash authoring tools. http://osflash.org/ has a number of open > source development tools. I am not enough of a flash developer to > judge if the authoring products are mature enough to be useful or not. > Are there any Flash developers out there, can you judge the quality > of some of these products? > > Second, the player - > The Free Software Foundation has flash player project called Gnash. > The project is makin slow yet steady progress towards being a fully > capable swf player. The project suffers from lack of support. Many > Open Source users either download the Adobe player or forgo using > flash. The itch factor is pretty low. > > As a product, Gnash is approaching, yet is not yet ready for, prime > time. I spent New Years Day with my sister's kids( ages 11, 7, and 4) > looking at their favorites sites under Ubuntu/Flash, Ubuntu/Gnash, > Xo/Flash, and Xo,Flash. I bet that was the first time they have ever > heard a adult tell them to, 'come on, play it again, just one more > time, please...' about their favorite games:) > > There was a steady decrease in the availability and usability of sites > with Xo and Gnash. We need to wait for feedback from Gnash about the > product's technical limitations and the project's development > limitations. > > Finally, the brand - > Adobe has recently asked Gnash to call their player a SWF player > rather than a flash player:) > > I appreciate your feedback on the technical aspect of Bryan's propose. > In the next few days, I will try to summarize the (1) > organization/development and (2) the educational/pedagogically issues > of his proposal. > > thanks > david > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/c347302b/attachment-0001.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 21:28:34 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:28:34 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901041828p1af5dc63u2280a09c3b4ee1cd@mail.gmail.com> I should add one assumption that I'm making, which is that Flash will never be considered the *primary* content authoring solution for Sugar activities. If it were to become so, given the current state as outlined by David's 4 points, there needs to be significant support by Sugar Labs for the Flash development tools, financially and with code. But from my perspective, the challenges associated with making it a primary content authoring system are so large as to be not worth pursuing when a few simple tweaks to the current software stack would get you 90% of the way there. Cheers, -Wade On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Personally, I don't believe that Sugar Labs the organization needs to be > concerned with any of these four points. > > The question is whether the Sugar *software* is flexible enough to adapt to > the needs of its users. Who are we to say what they should install, and > what tools they should use to make their content? > > Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not specifically > designed for it. This precludes smaller organizations who cannot design > custom Sugar activities from producing good content. Once the Sugar > software is more flexible and able to run arbitrary programs (Gnash, Flash, > Silverlight, GTK, Qt) without massive time investment and hacking on the > part of the content producers, the other questions won't even reach this > list. > > Best regards, > Wade > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:38 PM, David Farning wrote: > >> Bryan Berry started a great thread about activity development a few >> days ago. In the initial post he proposed using flash as means of >> developing content. Before taking the thread any farther I though we >> should stop and look at what flash actually is. >> >> The term flash is often interchangeably used as: >> 1. A brand >> 2. A player >> 3. A development environment >> 4. A protocol >> >> Yep, confusing. As we continue the discussion, I thought we should >> look at how 'flash' relates to Sugar and to more generally to OLPC and >> Open Source. I have CCed MaryBeth from Open Media Now and Rob from >> Gnash to help clarify the many shortcomings in my explanations. >> >> First, the brand - >> Flash is primarily a brand. It was originally created by MacroMedia >> and has been purchased by Adobe. The brand consists of the player, >> IDE, protocol, and the support and marketing provided by Adobe. As a >> brand, Flash is competing head-to-head with Microsoft's Silverlight. >> >> Second, the player - >> The most visible part of flash is the player. The _Adobe_Flash_Player >> is a proprietary product which is developed, supported, and >> distributed by Adobe. Currently, the Adobe Flash Player can only be >> distributed with Adobe's permission. Binary code for the player can >> be downloaded for most operating systems and distributions. >> >> Third party redistribution is strictly prohibited without permission. >> As such it would not be possible for Sugar Labs to distribute the >> Adobe_Flash_Player in its code bundles. Deployments can, and often >> do, add the Player as an available activity. The Player can be >> legally redistributed over an organization's intra-net. >> >> Third, the authoring tools - >> Adobe's business model is to give away the player and sell the >> authoring tools. As a result, Adobe sells several very good, yet, >> expensive authoring tools. Adobe's development tool costs >> approximately $750 US. >> >> Fourth, the Standards - >> Flash deliverables come in two formats .swf and .flv. Swf and >> ActionScript, the development language use to create .swfs have been >> open sourced. I believe that the ActionScript source code is jointly >> held by Adobe and Mozilla. There are possible legal questions about >> the patent encumberment status of some of the media codecs used in >> swfs and flvs. We would need clarification from the Software Freedom >> Conservancy on these issues. >> >> So, counting backwards how does this affect Sugar Lab? >> Fourth, the Standards - >> We need to wait for feedback from the SFC and Open Media Now. >> >> Third, the authoring tools - >> Adobe has done a very effective job eliminating the competition for >> flash authoring tools. http://osflash.org/ has a number of open >> source development tools. I am not enough of a flash developer to >> judge if the authoring products are mature enough to be useful or not. >> Are there any Flash developers out there, can you judge the quality >> of some of these products? >> >> Second, the player - >> The Free Software Foundation has flash player project called Gnash. >> The project is makin slow yet steady progress towards being a fully >> capable swf player. The project suffers from lack of support. Many >> Open Source users either download the Adobe player or forgo using >> flash. The itch factor is pretty low. >> >> As a product, Gnash is approaching, yet is not yet ready for, prime >> time. I spent New Years Day with my sister's kids( ages 11, 7, and 4) >> looking at their favorites sites under Ubuntu/Flash, Ubuntu/Gnash, >> Xo/Flash, and Xo,Flash. I bet that was the first time they have ever >> heard a adult tell them to, 'come on, play it again, just one more >> time, please...' about their favorite games:) >> >> There was a steady decrease in the availability and usability of sites >> with Xo and Gnash. We need to wait for feedback from Gnash about the >> product's technical limitations and the project's development >> limitations. >> >> Finally, the brand - >> Adobe has recently asked Gnash to call their player a SWF player >> rather than a flash player:) >> >> I appreciate your feedback on the technical aspect of Bryan's propose. >> In the next few days, I will try to summarize the (1) >> organization/development and (2) the educational/pedagogically issues >> of his proposal. >> >> thanks >> david >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/3178a83f/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 21:30:55 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:30:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] anonymous gray activity circles In-Reply-To: <20090104225539.GL3164@didacte.laptop.org> References: <495B7F96.7060308@usa.net> <495FBB3D.5080800@comcast.net> <20090104225539.GL3164@didacte.laptop.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901041830j2ea4cf6fld5df39f2061bd15b@mail.gmail.com> Hey Michael, Did you try applying Sayamindu's patch from the previous email (and did you see the associated screenshot)? I'm surprised it hasn't been cleaned up and pushed by the Sugar dev team by now. -Wade On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 02:23:41PM -0500, Chris Marshall wrote: > >Two specific questions come to mind: > > > >(1) How does Sugar know that a new top level > > window has been instantiated? Is there a > > hook from the X server or what? > > Here's a short code tour for your enjoyment. I'll start by tracing > backwards from what we know: > > 1. Clone the sugar source code: > > git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar/mainline.git sugar > > 2. We know that things including gray circles appear in the top part of > the frame. What causes this? > > cd sugar > find . -name '*frame*' > # Inspiration! > cd src/jarabe/frame > > 3. Start reading files here looking for info about how the frame is > constructed. > > Ah hah! We find out from src/jarabe/frame/frame.py that the frame > consists of four panels. > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/frame.py#line117 > > What goes in the top panel? Read _create_top_panel(): > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/frame.py#line177 > > Bingo! An ActivitiesTray()! > > 4. Go find ActivitiesTray(): > > First, search for "ActivitiesTray". Find the import line at > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/frame.py#line29 > > Next, go read src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py looking for the > definition of ActivitiesTray() > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py#line299 > > 5. Figure out what message causes the tray to add icons. > > Doesn't that __activity_added_cb() callback look suspicious? > > Let's figure out what causes self._home_model to generate > 'activity-added' signals. > > 6. Track down self._home_model. > > Ah! In ActivitiesTray.__init__, we set it equal to shell.get_model(). > > Where does the variable "shell" come from? From here: > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py#line39 > > 7. Track down 'get_model' in src/jarabe/model/shell.py > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line573 > > So what's a ShellModel? > > 8. Look more carefully at ShellModel. > > We find the definition of the 'activity-added' signal here: > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line282 > > alongside several other tasty-sounding signals. > > ... > > Oooh, look at the __init__ method: > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line310 > > Doesn't that "window-open" signal sound interesting? > > 9. Review. > > We've pretty much figured out the chain of events that results in the > appearance of a new button on the frame's top panel's activities tray. > > Moreover, while we still don't really know why the buttons sometimes > display gray circles vs activity icons or how to remove a button, we > can be fairly sure that the answers lie close by, e.g. > > (where the gray circles come from:) > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/frame/activitiestray.py#line67 > > and back in jarabe.model.shell.ShellModel, which seems to be driving > the show w.r.t. to the display and removal of items in the > ActivitiesTray. > > 10. Forward. > > The questions which remain include: > > a) What things are driving the ShellModel? Are they doing so > correctly? > > hint: nope. read > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/model/shell.py#line434 > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/startup-notification-spec/startup-notification-latest.txt > > (also, please help me get the ideas in the patches at the top of > http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/mstone/sugar and > http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/mstone/sugar-toolkit > merged which, while they won't solve your problem, may still be > generally useful.) > > b) What icon data should we be feeding into those buttons? Where > does it come from? > > hint: read > http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/latest/ > > http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/latest/ar01s05.html#id2569669 > and start asking questions. > > Hope this helps, > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/9931a39e/attachment-0001.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 22:13:51 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 22:13:51 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO (was: Re: [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II) In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901041913ie9aefcbk3f9c11db3678d009@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > I would like to get hold of Omar Khayyam Moore's Edison Talking > Typewriter program and rewrite it in a modern programming language. It > ran on an IBM 360 and taught three-year-olds to read and write on a > Selectric terminal with very little human intervention required. > My PyGTK port of Ben Sittler's Yay Bee See! could be adapted to mimic the ETT. - After the student has pressed some keys and gets used to the feedback of seeing the letter and pictures, show a random picture and "disable" the keyboard except for the corresponding key, just like ETT. - Add a sound effect for each picture / letter combo, just like the ETT. This is something Ben and I discussed which would not be hard to do. It's mostly a matter of collecting the media. - You could add a constructivist twist by letting the student paste in a new picture and/or sound for each letter, perhaps from Record (see Walter's Typing Turtle suggestion). The collection would be saved to the Journal. Feel like dusting off your Python skills? git://dev.laptop.org/users/wadeb/yay-bee-see -Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090104/ee7a225f/attachment.htm From acahalan at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 23:49:22 2009 From: acahalan at gmail.com (Albert Cahalan) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:49:22 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <787b0d920901042049h1fdf87d0se32923d052eb8705@mail.gmail.com> David Van Assche writes: > Actually there are a whole bunch of examples I uploaded > to schools.sugarlabs.org, the problem we have is of how > to categorise them. ie... do we put them via subject, > via class, via country, via language? I can't see anything there. It keeps demanding an account. I have absolutely no desire for yet another web site account, especially when Moodle will supposedly shove constructivist bullshit down my throat. Why can't I just browse? > If there are any course content creators out there, I'd love > to hear their ideas, and if they need help with creating courses > on the schools.sugarlabs.org site, I believe I can help. Perhaps we can find some way to work together. In about 10 months I taught a kid about 10 years of normal honors math. Along the way I saved all the worksheets that I made for him. He's now beyond that, being well into my old college calculus textbook. At the start he was only doing single-digit addition and subtraction. Nope, it's not constructivist. It actually works. I was careful to mark the worksheets that were not my own work. I think that far less than 10% of the worksheets are thus not free to be used in some other project. The free worksheets could be used as the majority of practice problems for a set of free math books. It's currently on graph paper, 10 lines to the inch. I don't have a scanner for it, though maybe my 3016x2008 camera (should do 200 dpi) would be workable. (really slow though -- I have hundreds of pages) Conversion would involve dealing with plenty of line art. I'm not likely to have much time for any of this, but it sure seems wasteful to let the problems just gather dust. Perhaps success is more about the teaching method and continuous effort though, in which case the worksheets are less useful. BTW, when faced with teachers that are missing or useless, something closer to the Robinson Curriculum would be appropriate. Be sure to note how the subject ordering avoids premature and ineffective study. From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 4 23:50:10 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:50:10 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? Message-ID: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> I would like to give the following talks at XOCamp2 if there is space in the schedule for them and others are interested. Please let me know if you would be interested 1. Evolution of a deployment organization. About the challenges of building a deployment team from scratch and lesson learned along the way. Not a very technical talk. 2. Karma - Not for Hackers, for Designers Talk about my still evolving ideas for a flash-based activity framework called Karma -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From dvanassche at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 01:24:59 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:24:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <787b0d920901042049h1fdf87d0se32923d052eb8705@mail.gmail.com> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> <787b0d920901042049h1fdf87d0se32923d052eb8705@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901042224s5a515b0fv43167119ec59abe6@mail.gmail.com> Hi Albert, You don't need an account, you can just log in as guest, although its certainly advised to get an account so you can see the full functionality of Moodle like its user detail manipulation, etc. Some courses were set to non-guest or needed a key. I've changed them all to be free, so just logging in as guest should allow you to browse them all. The worksheets sound awsome, If you want me to look at how they could be put into moodle, take a photo of one, and send it my way, we'll see if we can't easily vectorise it or turn into some kind of interactive web based activity. kind regards, David Van Assche On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Albert Cahalan wrote: > David Van Assche writes: > >> Actually there are a whole bunch of examples I uploaded >> to schools.sugarlabs.org, the problem we have is of how >> to categorise them. ie... do we put them via subject, >> via class, via country, via language? > > I can't see anything there. It keeps demanding an account. > I have absolutely no desire for yet another web site account, > especially when Moodle will supposedly shove constructivist > bullshit down my throat. > > Why can't I just browse? > >> If there are any course content creators out there, I'd love >> to hear their ideas, and if they need help with creating courses >> on the schools.sugarlabs.org site, I believe I can help. > > Perhaps we can find some way to work together. > > In about 10 months I taught a kid about 10 years of normal honors > math. Along the way I saved all the worksheets that I made for him. > He's now beyond that, being well into my old college calculus textbook. > At the start he was only doing single-digit addition and subtraction. > Nope, it's not constructivist. It actually works. > > I was careful to mark the worksheets that were not my own work. > I think that far less than 10% of the worksheets are thus not free > to be used in some other project. The free worksheets could be used > as the majority of practice problems for a set of free math books. > > It's currently on graph paper, 10 lines to the inch. I don't have a > scanner for it, though maybe my 3016x2008 camera (should do 200 dpi) > would be workable. (really slow though -- I have hundreds of pages) > Conversion would involve dealing with plenty of line art. I'm not > likely to have much time for any of this, but it sure seems wasteful > to let the problems just gather dust. Perhaps success is more about > the teaching method and continuous effort though, in which case the > worksheets are less useful. > > BTW, when faced with teachers that are missing or useless, something > closer to the Robinson Curriculum would be appropriate. Be sure to > note how the subject ordering avoids premature and ineffective study. > From tony_anderson at usa.net Mon Jan 5 03:38:50 2009 From: tony_anderson at usa.net (Tony Anderson) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:38:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4961C71A.7020202@usa.net> David, I didn't realize that you were the source of the content on schools.sugarlabs.org. Thanks for posting the courses. I also looked at the database of possible sources. A good start on that. I hope that we will have a chance to discuss the infrastructure needs next week in Boston. Tony David Van Assche wrote: > Actually there are a whole bunch of examples I uploaded to > schools.sugarlabs.org, the problem we have is of how to categorise > them. ie... do we put them via subject, via class, via country, via > language? > > The infrastructure needs to be discussed and then agreed upon. That's > the main reason why I didn't upload anything else. That and I realised > I'm the only one adding anything to the site ;-) That said, the entire > Open University content is creative commons, and can be easily > ported.... and there are many sources across the internet that offer > moodle material in various languages. I pasted a list of the best > curriculum and learning sources on schools.sugarlabs.org. There are > enough examples up there for course creators to get an idea of how to > create an effective learning course, and even some usable courses > (intro to gimp, intro to networking, etc.) Moodle is really quite > simple to get the hang off, but like everything else, it requires > putting time into it. If there are any course content creators out > there, I'd love to hear their ideas, and if they need help with > creating courses on the schools.sugarlabs.org site, I believe I can > help. > > I also began creating a database of all the activities so that they > can easily be searched for, categorised, etc. but I read that this was > being done elsewhere so again, I didn't continue down that avenue, but > I'll gladly continue if its of use... > > kind Regards, > David Van Assche > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: >> On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 07:31 -0500, Tony Anderson wrote: >>> The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, >>> is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is >>> ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). >> Thanks for bringing this up Tony. I didn't properly address moodle in my >> very long article about Karma, a new activity framework for Sugar. >> Whatever karma or the default activity framework Sugar become, a key >> element will be easy integration with moodle. >> >> >> -- >> Bryan W. Berry >> Technology Director >> OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > > . > From dvanassche at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 04:07:43 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:07:43 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <4961C71A.7020202@usa.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> <1231009450.32208.70.camel@hitman> <8cc423ef0901041332s32439b1dycb28e4ca9f15c0b4@mail.gmail.com> <4961C71A.7020202@usa.net> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901050107q6e76e6e4offfa4400fb987cf3@mail.gmail.com> Maybe we should try and put together some sort of roadmap and strategy for schools.sugarlabs.org. Perhaps we could schedule an IRC meeting regarding it? kind Regards, David Van Assche On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > David, > > I didn't realize that you were the source of the content on > schools.sugarlabs.org. Thanks for posting the courses. I also looked at the > database of possible sources. A good start on that. > > I hope that we will have a chance to discuss the infrastructure needs next > week in Boston. > > Tony > > > David Van Assche wrote: >> >> Actually there are a whole bunch of examples I uploaded to >> schools.sugarlabs.org, the problem we have is of how to categorise >> them. ie... do we put them via subject, via class, via country, via >> language? >> >> The infrastructure needs to be discussed and then agreed upon. That's >> the main reason why I didn't upload anything else. That and I realised >> I'm the only one adding anything to the site ;-) That said, the entire >> Open University content is creative commons, and can be easily >> ported.... and there are many sources across the internet that offer >> moodle material in various languages. I pasted a list of the best >> curriculum and learning sources on schools.sugarlabs.org. There are >> enough examples up there for course creators to get an idea of how to >> create an effective learning course, and even some usable courses >> (intro to gimp, intro to networking, etc.) Moodle is really quite >> simple to get the hang off, but like everything else, it requires >> putting time into it. If there are any course content creators out >> there, I'd love to hear their ideas, and if they need help with >> creating courses on the schools.sugarlabs.org site, I believe I can >> help. >> >> I also began creating a database of all the activities so that they >> can easily be searched for, categorised, etc. but I read that this was >> being done elsewhere so again, I didn't continue down that avenue, but >> I'll gladly continue if its of use... >> >> kind Regards, >> David Van Assche >> >> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 2009-01-03 at 07:31 -0500, Tony Anderson wrote: >>>> >>>> The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, >>>> is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is >>>> ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). >>> >>> Thanks for bringing this up Tony. I didn't properly address moodle in my >>> very long article about Karma, a new activity framework for Sugar. >>> Whatever karma or the default activity framework Sugar become, a key >>> element will be easy integration with moodle. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Bryan W. Berry >>> Technology Director >>> OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>> >> >> . >> > > > From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 5 07:15:28 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:15:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> On 05.01.2009, at 05:24, John Watlington wrote: > On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not >> specifically designed for it. > Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser. > They don't have to be "designed" for Sugar. I think this goes besides the original point of Bryan. He is well aware that software needs to be specifically designed for Sugar, and wether this is good or bad is not the current debate. The point is what tools one can use to implement a proper Sugar activity. Bryan says the tools many content developers are familiar with are HTML, Javascript, and Flash. So how could an activity look like that can be authored primarily using Adobe's Flash tools? I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an activity template that just has a subdirectory for SWF content. Creating an SWF activity then would involve copying the template, editing the meta data, putting the SWF content into the directory, zipping it up and voila, a nice XO bundle. That process could easily be done by a script, even on Windows. IMHO that activity should be a wrapper for Gnash, perhaps as a native GTK+ application, without the browser baggage (maybe such a stand- alone player does exist already?). Since the content is authored specifically for Sugar (and in Nepal's case even more specifically for Sugar on the OLPC XO-1) it can easily be tuned to work well in Gnash. Hopefully Gnash's current limitations are well documented so authors can avoid pitfalls. That "sugarized SWF player" could even be extended to integrate nicely with the Journal (being able to do that is the point of having a free implementation after all) - there is no need to be compatible with Adobe's Flash player. My 1/50 ? ... - Bert - From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 09:12:43 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:12:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901050612l791de3cfg6773ee4d9c5e4ce6@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:24 PM, John Watlington wrote: > On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Personally, I don't believe that Sugar Labs the organization needs to be concerned with any of these four points. > > Ahh, but a recurring question from existing Sugar deployments is how to get Flash, why Flash doesn't run faster, etc. This appears to contradict the following statement. >> Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not specifically designed for it. > > Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser. They don't have to be > "designed" for Sugar. This thread isn't about simpler SWF files (punch the monkey, etc). It's about learning activities written in Flash. OTOH, if web games etc get better as a result, great. >> The question is whether the Sugar *software* is flexible enough to adapt to the needs of its users. Who are we to say what they should install, and what tools they should use to make their content? > >The question is what answer you provide to this crucial question. It's not my question to answer, nor Sugar Labs. It's a good idea to support other OSS software, but not when it runs counter to the mission of the project. Macromedia created, supported and marketed Flash. They deserve to make some money from it. Gnash will be a wonderful solution when it's ready for prime time. But it's up to the deployments (the practicality folks) to decide what software to use, we just have to make it work with the rest of our system. -Wade From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 09:16:54 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:16:54 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 05.01.2009, at 05:24, John Watlington wrote: > >> On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>> >>> Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not >>> specifically designed for it. >> >> Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser. >> They don't have to be "designed" for Sugar. > > > I think this goes besides the original point of Bryan. He is well aware that > software needs to be specifically designed for Sugar, and wether this is > good or bad is not the current debate. The point is what tools one can use > to implement a proper Sugar activity. Bryan says the tools many content > developers are familiar with are HTML, Javascript, and Flash. I agree completely - I proposed a swf-activity launcher script as the solution, in my initial response to Bryan. > I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an activity template > that just has a subdirectory for SWF content. Creating an SWF activity then > would involve copying the template, editing the meta data, putting the SWF > content into the directory, zipping it up and voila, a nice XO bundle. That > process could easily be done by a script, even on Windows. I think the template should be built into and supported by the Sugar dev team, rather than something that has to be copied around. That way it's able to be updated and improved over time, and as better Flash solutions become available we can incorporate them easily. I agree with the rest of Bert's plan. It should be a PyGTK activity with just an activity toolbar, which launches Gnash or Adobe Flash into its canvas. It should also find the Flash persistence database and copy it to/from the Journal. A nice additional feature would be to make use of Jordan's screen resolution dropper on the XO to allow Flash activities to run at 600x450, which would likely quadruple performance. -Wade From dvanassche at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 10:01:36 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:01:36 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be@mail.gmail.com> This might be of interest: Salasaga is a GTK/Gnome based IDE used to create eLearning for applications. With it, you take screenshots of your applications, add highlights, text and external images, then generate learning objects. Present output is in swf (flash) format. It would certainly be useful for making flash based learning objects for Moodle. The site for the soft is here: http://www.salasaga.org/ kind Regards, David Van Assche On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> On 05.01.2009, at 05:24, John Watlington wrote: >> >>> On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>>> >>>> Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not >>>> specifically designed for it. >>> >>> Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser. >>> They don't have to be "designed" for Sugar. >> >> >> I think this goes besides the original point of Bryan. He is well aware that >> software needs to be specifically designed for Sugar, and wether this is >> good or bad is not the current debate. The point is what tools one can use >> to implement a proper Sugar activity. Bryan says the tools many content >> developers are familiar with are HTML, Javascript, and Flash. > > I agree completely - I proposed a swf-activity launcher script as the > solution, in my initial response to Bryan. > >> I think it would be relatively easy to come up with an activity template >> that just has a subdirectory for SWF content. Creating an SWF activity then >> would involve copying the template, editing the meta data, putting the SWF >> content into the directory, zipping it up and voila, a nice XO bundle. That >> process could easily be done by a script, even on Windows. > > I think the template should be built into and supported by the Sugar > dev team, rather than something that has to be copied around. > > That way it's able to be updated and improved over time, and as better > Flash solutions become available we can incorporate them easily. > > I agree with the rest of Bert's plan. It should be a PyGTK activity > with just an activity toolbar, which launches Gnash or Adobe Flash > into its canvas. It should also find the Flash persistence database > and copy it to/from the Journal. > > A nice additional feature would be to make use of Jordan's screen > resolution dropper on the XO to allow Flash activities to run at > 600x450, which would likely quadruple performance. > > -Wade > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > From gregsmitholpc at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 10:27:05 2009 From: gregsmitholpc at gmail.com (Greg Smith) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:27:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> Hi Bryan, Both sound like very good subjects. I have you down for two hours Monday afternoon: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2#Monday_January_12.2C_2009 My goal for the first day is to give an overview of the challenges faced by deployments and how we hope to address them in release 9.1.0. Hopefully your slot Monday can address Nepal's experience and next stage plans. After you on Monday afternoon, is a working meeting to define how we ensure the latest Sugar is stable and how we include it in 9.1.0. Then we cover the technical details of each 9.1 area Tues. and Wed. Thursday and Friday are more open. John Gilmore is confirmed for Thursday afternoon but otherwise those meetings are mostly open and can be changed. Do you want to take Friday AM 10AM - Noon or Thursday afternoon 3PM - 5PM? Pick a slot and fill it in. Add a section below with more detail and link to it from the calendar if you want to give people a chance to see the agenda in advance. I'm not sure how many sugar focused people will be there late in the week but I expect you can get all the regulars from OLPC HQ at a minimum. Thanks, Greg S Bryan Berry wrote: > I would like to give the following talks at XOCamp2 if there is space in > the schedule for them and others are interested. Please let me know if > you would be interested > > 1. Evolution of a deployment organization. > > About the challenges of building a deployment team from scratch and > lesson learned along the way. Not a very technical talk. > > 2. Karma - Not for Hackers, for Designers > > Talk about my still evolving ideas for a flash-based activity framework > called Karma > > From guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk Mon Jan 5 11:39:21 2009 From: guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk (Guillaume Desmottes) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:39:21 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] File transfer in Telepathy In-Reply-To: <1228240272.11241.24.camel@cass-lpt> References: <1228240272.11241.24.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: <1231173561.6722.38.camel@cass-lpt> Le mardi 02 d?cembre 2008 ? 17:51 +0000, Guillaume Desmottes a ?crit : This new release depends on glib 2.16, dbus 1.1.0 and > libsoup-2.2. I just released telepathy-salut 0.3.7 depending on libsoup-2.4 instead of 2.2. This release also fixes some file transfer related bugs. See http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/telepathy/2009-January/002719.html for the announcement. Regards, G. From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Mon Jan 5 12:07:38 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:07:38 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> Wade Brainerd wrote: > I think the template should be built into and supported by the Sugar > dev team, rather than something that has to be copied around. I strongly disagree. We should send the clearest possible message that SWF, a language with no good free spec and no good free interpreter, is not recommended, even if it is supported. Software Freedom is a key part of the Sugar labs mission, both officially and in fact. > A nice additional feature would be to make use of Jordan's screen > resolution dropper on the XO to allow Flash activities to run at > 600x450, which would likely quadruple performance. We can do even better. http://wiki.gnashdev.org/Release_0.8.5#Release_Goals shows XVideo scaling support as one of the goals for the next Gnash, due in a month. --Ben From bryan at olenepal.org Mon Jan 5 12:59:52 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:59:52 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231178392.12102.23.camel@hitman> On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 16:01 +0100, David Van Assche wrote: > This might be of interest: > > Salasaga is a GTK/Gnome based IDE used to create eLearning for > applications. With it, you take screenshots of your applications, > add highlights, text and external images, then generate learning > objects. Present output is in swf (flash) format. > > It would certainly be useful for making flash based learning objects > for Moodle. The site for the soft is here: > http://www.salasaga.org/ > > kind Regards, > David Van Assche This looks extremely neat. Thanks for the link David! -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From cjb at laptop.org Thu Jan 1 23:06:07 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:06:07 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> (Bryan Berry's message of "Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:50:40 -0800") References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> Message-ID: Hi Bryan, > Sadly, Javascript can't use the Graphics Processing Unit like Flash > can. Ouch, The XO doesn't have much of a GPU, so I wouldn't be so worried about this. Any Javascript renderer that backs onto cairo will get as any other graphics on the XO. > Many people will likely hate my promotion of Flash for learning > activities. It's OK if you hate me and Flash. I do hope you > recognize that we need a more developer-centric activity framework > that uses web technologies. Making activity development easier is an unarguably fine goal, but I don't think there are any simple solutions. For example, do we even have a Flash editor under Linux? Is the first instruction on how to write activities for someone in the developing world going to be "First, pirate a copy of Windows and Adobe Flash Professional, and then.."? - Chris. -- Chris Ball From cjb at laptop.org Fri Jan 2 03:09:08 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:09:08 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> (Bryan Berry's message of "Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:32:39 -0800") References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> Message-ID: Hi Bryan, > Developing learning activities requires the developer already know > something about programming. In Nepal, China, India that means they > have at least a pirated copy of Windows and possibly Adobe Flash. > If they have linux, that means that some time ago they had pirated > Windows which they used to learn about linux. That sounds plausible, at least for pirated Windows. (I'm sure it's much harder to get a copy of Flash.) I'm not willing to incorporate "First, get a pirated copy of Windows and Flash" into my instructions for activity development, though. We're supposed to be combating the inequity that says "we can create things on our computers because we're rich, but you don't get to do that on yours without breaking the law because you're poor". That inequity is just as much a part of the digital divide as everything else we're trying to bridge over, in my opinion. It feels important to me to be able to say "Here's a software platform for you to start out with, and here's all of the software we used in the process of making it, which means there's nothing stopping you from learning to further it yourself". A true passing on of knowledge from one group to another, as equals. I imagine this is the kind of debate where no-one really changes their mind; that's okay. As long as the viewpoint of software freedom as a foundational principle for Sugar (even in the face of extra convenience) is being represented and considered, I'm happy. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From overbyte at earthlink.net Fri Jan 2 13:46:18 2009 From: overbyte at earthlink.net (Stanley Sokolow) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:46:18 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash development for the XO In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <495E60FA.4070400@earthlink.net> Hi, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > > Developing learning activities requires the developer already know > > something about programming. In Nepal, China, India that means they > > have at least a pirated copy of Windows and possibly Adobe Flash. > > If they have linux, that means that some time ago they had pirated > > Windows which they used to learn about linux. > > That sounds plausible, at least for pirated Windows. (I'm sure it's > much harder to get a copy of Flash.) > > I'm not willing to incorporate "First, get a pirated copy of Windows > and Flash" into my instructions for activity development, though. > I'm writing regarding the latest thread about using Flash as a development platform for XO activities. Very recently, my attention turned to Flash, or more specifically to Flex which is Adobe's platform for development of Rich Internet Applications (RIA) that run on the Flash Player virtual machine. (Flash is the system for development of applications, mainly video animations on a timeline, in a highly visual manner, whereas Flex is oriented toward programming GUI (graphical user interface) applications, but both of them use the same underlying technology of ActionScript language and the virtual machine embedded in the Flash Player to execute the object code.) I considered Javascript and the multitude of libraries built for it, but Flash seems to be a better way for me to build robust, attractive, run-everywhere applications. I won't go into the details of that decision, but here are some things not mentioned yet in this discussion about Flash for the future of OLPC software. Adobe has opened the source of most of the Flash development kit and provides it free-of-charge as a download of the kit called the Flex SDK, which is a complete development kit for building ActionScript 3 applications except for the IDE (integrated development environment). Adobe sells their Flash Builder IDE for about $300, but there's a free open source IDE that's pretty good: FlashDevelop. FlashDevelop doesn't have the what-you-see-is-what-you-get playback view of your code that is included in Adobe's more featured Flex Builder, but you can accomplish the same thing by compiling and viewing the results in your browser, then returning to the FlashDevelop IDE, all of which is quick and easy. Read about it at: http://www.flashdevelop.org/wikidocs/index.php?title=Features . You don't absolutely need an IDE to develop Flash programs, since you can just write them in your favorite programming editor, but an IDE makes life a little easier. FlashDevelop only runs on Windows and .NET, but the resulting output runs anywhere on the FlashPlayer. Flex (and FlashDevelop) lets you develop the UI (user interface) using an XML language called MXML to place the pre-built widgets on the screen and hook them to programmed logic written as scripts in ActionScript, all embedded in an HTML page to run in a browser that has had the Flash Player installed. (ActionScript is Adobe's language, but it was based on the proposed next version of Javascript which is still in development by the standards organization.) As you know, FlashPlayer is almost ubiquitous, being installed by most computer manufacturers and freely downloaded from www.adobe.com . It's available for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Solaris. There are free open-source libraries that work with ActionScript to enhance what you can do, even some amazing 3d libraries such as Away3d. (Check it out at www.away3d.org .) Although the source of the FlashPlayer is not open, that should not be a deterrent to developing for it. Anyone working with open source software is sorely aware that open source software development is somewhat chaotic and doesn't in fact produce software that runs everywhere without major problems. Having one company provide the infrastructure in the form of FlashPlayer has some advantages. FlashPlayer sounds like just a video player, but it's far more than that. It is a virtual machine for running programs compiled by the ActionScript compilers, such as the one included for free in the Flex SDK. Adobe's web site has a great deal of tutorial and reference information, including videos, about developing for the infrastructure, so it's not necessary to buy a lot of books or take expensive classes. The same development system can also be used to run Flex applications outside of the browser like any other desktop application, using the Adobe AIR player, also free to download with a free AIR SDK at www.adobe.com/air . However, Flash on the XO is not yet a rosy picture in my book. Yesterday I posted my comments on devel at lists.laptop.org, which I quote below. Stanley Sokolow wrote to developers at devel at lists.laptop.org: > Hi, > > I'm having problems: Adobe FlashPlayer doesn't detect the XO's built-in > webcam so it can't transmit video out to the Internet on Flash-enabled > web sites, and the Adobe Flash player on the XO freezes the popup > right-click control panel. Gnash didn't work at all with a Flash-based > web site we're interested in, so I went to the real FlashPlayer, latest > version. > > I've been lurking here watching the comments on Gnash versus Flash while > I tried to get my wife's XO playing nicely with a Flash-based RIA (rich > internet application) site called www.vyew.com . (That's pronounced > like "view".) Vyew is a collaborative whiteboard application with > video, voice, and text chatting features in addition to the > whiteboard. By whiteboard, I mean that several users can connect to > the same page and collaborate on drawing sketches and typing text on the > same screen, which is visible to all of the connected people. They > can also activate their camera and microphone (if they exist) to carry > on two-way conversations like Skype. She wants to use this for a > remote tutoring activity where she interacts with students about math > problems. We tried to get Paint and Colors activities to play nicely > with various Sugar emulators (LiveCD, Sugar on Ubuntu, Sugar on Windows > Vista) but they all had various problems seeing (presence detection) or > collaborating. So we found this web site, Vyew. The Vyew site didn't > load the Flash content on the web page with Browse and Gnash, so I > installed the real Adobe Flash player on the XO. We have been largely > successful with Vyew and Adobe FlashPlayer on the XO. Both computers > can see each other's drawings collaboratively on the same page, but we > ran into one problem that relates to Flash on the XO. > > The XO browser can see the webcam video stream from our Dell laptop > running Vyew on the Dell's Vista browsers (MS IE & Firefox) and can hear > the audio stream from the Dell, but I can't get Flash to activate the > XO's camera. When I right-click on the Flash box in the web page, the > Flash popup menu appears. I click the "settings" item. Adobe Flash > Player control panel pops up as it should, but it is just frozen. I > can't get it to flip to the other tabs to set the camera & microphone > permissions. In fact, the panel won't even quit when I click the Close > button. Nothing gets rid of it except reloading or leaving the web > page. This was while running on the XO's Browse activity. I thought > that maybe Opera for the XO would do better. No luck. Opera as > installed from the wiki.laptop.org/opera instructions does not even play > the Flash on the Adobe web site: www.adobe.com/products/flash/about , > nor any other Flash embedded in a web page. All that Opera shows is a > gray rectangle where the Flash should be, no text saying to click to > play the Flash. This is apparently a problem of Opera not interacting > well with FlashPlayer, because the Opera plugin directories point to the > very same plugin program file by symbolic linkage, so it's not a bad > plugin file -- the Adobe plugin plays the Flash .swf embedded element > with Browse, just not perfectly, but Opera doesn't play it at all. > > I submitted a comment to the Opera programmer who maintains the Opera > blog about the OLPC version, but that blog has had very little activity > in the past year so I'm not hopeful of any results from the Opera > people. Has anyone here tried to run a recent release of Opera on the > XO, not the very old version that was customized for the XO according to > our wiki? > > For the record, here are the various versions I'm running: XO has build > 767 of Sugar, the XO is one recently received from the G1G1 program > through Amazon, the FlashPlayer is the one recommended on the > wiki.laptop.org page: > http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/flash-plugin-10.0.15.3-release.i386.rpm > , the "about" Flash page reports the correct release 10,0,15,3 and so > does the README in the flash-plugin folder on the XO, and uname reports > that my XO's Linux version is 2.6.25-20080925.1.olpc.f10b654367d7065. > > Even without the 2-way video streaming, www.vyew.com is a nice > application for collaboration over the Internet. Try it. > > Stan Sokolow > > I should add that Opera works well with the same (latest) version of FlashPlayer on my Ubuntu computer, so the bug must be in the old version of Opera for the XO. By the way, I have no connection whatsoever with Adobe or any other software company for that matter. I'm just a self-taught computer geek on a low budget, trying to maximize what I can do, minimize the time it takes, and minimize the cost. Stan From overbyte at earthlink.net Fri Jan 2 14:20:11 2009 From: overbyte at earthlink.net (Stanley Sokolow) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 11:20:11 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] More about Flash on the XO In-Reply-To: References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <495E68EB.6080508@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090102/62b653c6/attachment-0001.htm From cjb at laptop.org Fri Jan 2 14:38:18 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 14:38:18 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] How to Make Activity Designers Happy , Parts I and II In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901020930g3a529a23tbc789fb4bddf8574__17215.7903704376$1230917638$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (Wade Brainerd's message of "Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:30:48 -0500") References: <1230861040.17108.4.camel__8009.18864920295$1230861178$gmane$org@hitman> <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901020930g3a529a23tbc789fb4bddf8574__17215.7903704376$1230917638$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, > I think Bryan's idea is wonderfully practical. What's more, > it sounds easy to achieve. You just need a 'swf-activity' > launcher, and a script to sugarize .SWF files into .xo bundles > which launch as fullscreen activities. Oh, that sounds good. I should clarify -- I don't have a problem with anyone working on that launcher or making Flash applications for learning that use it. The 'swf-activity' launcher could be little more than the gtk-gnash binary, which we already install. We're talking about "reworking the default activity framework", though, and that setup is incompatible with the requirements I'd propose for our framework, because it requires proprietary software and doesn't (as far as I can see) allow activities to save work or offer collaboration and sharing. If we recommended it in place of our current framework, we would be gaining some convenience in the form of developer time at the expense of much of the expressivity, power, and software freedom that makes our platform meaningful in the first place. So, I'd suggest that this goal (play Flash applications fullscreen) happens independently of improvements on how we help people to write Sugar activities. Does that make sense? - Chris. -- Chris Ball From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-sugar at silbe.org Fri Jan 2 19:38:34 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-sugar at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 01:38:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Teaching typing and basic math on the XO In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1230874359.17108.16.camel@hitman> <1230912293.17108.41.camel@hitman> <1230923827.17108.65.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901021154r506f1f76k8b61cb0a68b2c672@mail.gmail.com> <1230927010.17108.103.camel@hitman> <20090102235506.GA23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <7087c32a0901021620t76f42fcele8c97ed01cedc3d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090103003834.GB23251@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 07:20:05PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > If you have used TuxType, you will know that it's a simplistic typing > *practice game* and in no way teaches the user how to type. I thought that's what you're looking for. How do you imagine a "typing teaching activity" to work? What does the "Typing Turtle" activity that was mentioned look like? CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090103/8edd1e0b/attachment-0001.pgp From rob at omnow.org Sun Jan 4 21:01:47 2009 From: rob at omnow.org (Rob Savoye) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:01:47 -0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49616A0B.40408@omnow.org> David Farning wrote: > Fourth, the Standards - > Flash deliverables come in two formats .swf and .flv. Swf and > ActionScript, the development language use to create .swfs have been > open sourced. I believe that the ActionScript source code is jointly > held by Adobe and Mozilla. There are possible legal questions about > the patent encumberment status of some of the media codecs used in > swfs and flvs. We would need clarification from the Software Freedom > Conservancy on these issues. We wrote our own ActionScript library, and now the specifications are freely available. We haven't implemented a complete AS library, that's a huge project we haven't had the resources for. We have implemented most of the AS classes that actually get used, and have been working on AS 3 support as well. FLV is not patented, but it uses sorenson for compression, which is patented. Gnash supports Theora streaming to get around this, although I think only the Internet Archive is doing this. > So, counting backwards how does this affect Sugar Lab? > Fourth, the Standards - > We need to wait for feedback from the SFC and Open Media Now. Already talked to the SFLC on the issues, the main legal issue is basically the codecs, SWF itself has never been patented. I've met with EFF lawyers too about reverse engineering issue,and we're good there. But flash movies use MP3 as the codec for sounds in animations. While Gnash does support the streaming of vorbis or theora, there so far aren't any creation tools that will let you use vorbis for sound effects yet. We'd love to add this to our swf creation tool, Ming, one of these days... > Third, the authoring tools - > Adobe has done a very effective job eliminating the competition for > flash authoring tools. http://osflash.org/ has a number of open > source development tools. I am not enough of a flash developer to > judge if the authoring products are mature enough to be useful or not. > Are there any Flash developers out there, can you judge the quality > of some of these products? None of the free flash authoring tools have a GUI. We support the Ming project, then there is mtasc (as2, v8 only), and haxe. We've tried to raise funding to put a GUI on top of any of these swf compilers, but nobody seems that interested. The existing free authoring tools I've seen don't even generate swf yet, they're bare prototypes. I've wondered about a SWF backend for etoys though... > Second, the player - > The Free Software Foundation has flash player project called Gnash. > The project is makin slow yet steady progress towards being a fully > capable swf player. The project suffers from lack of support. Many > Open Source users either download the Adobe player or forgo using > flash. The itch factor is pretty low. Yep. We get little support, as at the slightest problem, people just install Adobe, and nobody sticks to Gnash unless they're a free software fan. That and although we make good progress for a small team, many distributions (OLPC included) have a bad tendency to stick to old, out of date versions. > There was a steady decrease in the availability and usability of sites > with Xo and Gnash. We need to wait for feedback from Gnash about the > product's technical limitations and the project's development > limitations. We suffer mostly from lack of resources, even when we had some funding for the core team. There is just so much a handful of volunteer developers can do... and reverse engineering is often slow and tedious. > Finally, the brand - > Adobe has recently asked Gnash to call their player a SWF player > rather than a flash player:) Actually Adobe asked Canonical to call it a swf player, they've never talked to us about it directly. As they said then, swf is the name of a format that gets played, flash is the trademarked term of the creation tools itself. - rob - From wad at laptop.org Sun Jan 4 23:24:43 2009 From: wad at laptop.org (John Watlington) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:24:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Personally, I don't believe that Sugar Labs the organization needs > to be concerned with any of these four points. Ahh, but a recurring question from existing Sugar deployments is how to get Flash, why Flash doesn't run faster, etc. > The question is whether the Sugar *software* is flexible enough to > adapt to the needs of its users. Who are we to say what they > should install, and what tools they should use to make their content? The question is what answer you provide to this crucial question. How crucial ? Any (non-x86) processor design hoping to for MID/ settop/laptop market penetration is paying Adobe to support them from day one. One day, we hope they will instead pay someone to port Gnash + codecs instead... > Currently Sugar is incapable of running software which is not > specifically designed for it. Sugar runs simpler SWF applications just fine, through the Browser. They don't have to be "designed" for Sugar. > This precludes smaller organizations who cannot design custom Sugar > activities from producing good content. Once the Sugar software is > more flexible and able to run arbitrary programs (Gnash, Flash, > Silverlight, GTK, Qt) without massive time investment and hacking > on the part of the content producers, the other questions won't > even reach this list. > > Best regards, > Wade > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:38 PM, David Farning > wrote: > Bryan Berry started a great thread about activity development a few > days ago. In the initial post he proposed using flash as means of > developing content. Before taking the thread any farther I though we > should stop and look at what flash actually is. > > The term flash is often interchangeably used as: > 1. A brand > 2. A player > 3. A development environment > 4. A protocol > > Yep, confusing. As we continue the discussion, I thought we should > look at how 'flash' relates to Sugar and to more generally to OLPC and > Open Source. I have CCed MaryBeth from Open Media Now and Rob from > Gnash to help clarify the many shortcomings in my explanations. > > First, the brand - > Flash is primarily a brand. It was originally created by MacroMedia > and has been purchased by Adobe. The brand consists of the player, > IDE, protocol, and the support and marketing provided by Adobe. As a > brand, Flash is competing head-to-head with Microsoft's Silverlight. > > Second, the player - > The most visible part of flash is the player. The _Adobe_Flash_Player > is a proprietary product which is developed, supported, and > distributed by Adobe. Currently, the Adobe Flash Player can only be > distributed with Adobe's permission. Binary code for the player can > be downloaded for most operating systems and distributions. > > Third party redistribution is strictly prohibited without permission. > As such it would not be possible for Sugar Labs to distribute the > Adobe_Flash_Player in its code bundles. Deployments can, and often > do, add the Player as an available activity. The Player can be > legally redistributed over an organization's intra-net. > > Third, the authoring tools - > Adobe's business model is to give away the player and sell the > authoring tools. As a result, Adobe sells several very good, yet, > expensive authoring tools. Adobe's development tool costs > approximately $750 US. > > Fourth, the Standards - > Flash deliverables come in two formats .swf and .flv. Swf and > ActionScript, the development language use to create .swfs have been > open sourced. I believe that the ActionScript source code is jointly > held by Adobe and Mozilla. There are possible legal questions about > the patent encumberment status of some of the media codecs used in > swfs and flvs. We would need clarification from the Software Freedom > Conservancy on these issues. > > So, counting backwards how does this affect Sugar Lab? > Fourth, the Standards - > We need to wait for feedback from the SFC and Open Media Now. > > Third, the authoring tools - > Adobe has done a very effective job eliminating the competition for > flash authoring tools. http://osflash.org/ has a number of open > source development tools. I am not enough of a flash developer to > judge if the authoring products are mature enough to be useful or not. > Are there any Flash developers out there, can you judge the quality > of some of these products? > > Second, the player - > The Free Software Foundation has flash player project called Gnash. > The project is makin slow yet steady progress towards being a fully > capable swf player. The project suffers from lack of support. Many > Open Source users either download the Adobe player or forgo using > flash. The itch factor is pretty low. > > As a product, Gnash is approaching, yet is not yet ready for, prime > time. I spent New Years Day with my sister's kids( ages 11, 7, and 4) > looking at their favorites sites under Ubuntu/Flash, Ubuntu/Gnash, > Xo/Flash, and Xo,Flash. I bet that was the first time they have ever > heard a adult tell them to, 'come on, play it again, just one more > time, please...' about their favorite games:) > > There was a steady decrease in the availability and usability of sites > with Xo and Gnash. We need to wait for feedback from Gnash about the > product's technical limitations and the project's development > limitations. > > Finally, the brand - > Adobe has recently asked Gnash to call their player a SWF player > rather than a flash player:) > > I appreciate your feedback on the technical aspect of Bryan's propose. > In the next few days, I will try to summarize the (1) > organization/development and (2) the educational/pedagogically issues > of his proposal. > > thanks > david > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep From rob at omnow.org Mon Jan 5 10:14:39 2009 From: rob at omnow.org (Rob Savoye) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:14:39 -0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496223DF.4000804@omnow.org> David Van Assche wrote: > Salasaga is a GTK/Gnome based IDE used to create eLearning for > applications. With it, you take screenshots of your applications, > add highlights, text and external images, then generate learning > objects. Present output is in swf (flash) format. I've talked to their developers. Salasaga is a good tool for creating instructional design software, namely lots of screenshots. It's not much for animations. They thought adding a SWF backend would be interesting, it's not in their roadmap. - rob - From rob at omnow.org Mon Jan 5 10:30:52 2009 From: rob at omnow.org (Rob Savoye) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:30:52 -0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <496227AC.7000904@omnow.org> Bert Freudenberg wrote: > IMHO that activity should be a wrapper for Gnash, perhaps as a native > GTK+ application, without the browser baggage (maybe such a stand-alone > player does exist already?). Since the content is authored specifically As Gnash was created originally as the UI layer for a stereo, it's always run standalone. I only made an additional plugin since most people are used to only running flash in their browser. > for Sugar (and in Nepal's case even more specifically for Sugar on the > OLPC XO-1) it can easily be tuned to work well in Gnash. Hopefully > Gnash's current limitations are well documented so authors can avoid > pitfalls. That "sugarized SWF player" could even be extended to > integrate nicely with the Journal (being able to do that is the point of > having a free implementation after all) - there is no need to be > compatible with Adobe's Flash player. Exactly. If the people creating he content work with us a little, and test with Gnash, the flash content will always work fine. You don't need any of the features of the latest flash anyway. At the same time, we need to figure out how to keep up to data builds for Sugar, as much of the problem has been old versions of Gnash. - rob - From rob at omnow.org Mon Jan 5 12:20:00 2009 From: rob at omnow.org (Rob Savoye) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:20:00 -0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <49624140.4060905@omnow.org> Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > I strongly disagree. We should send the clearest possible message that > SWF, a language with no good free spec and no good free interpreter, is Just as a warning, Adobe is probably this year going to push SWF as an official standard, ala OOXML... at least that's the rumor... >> A nice additional feature would be to make use of Jordan's screen >> resolution dropper on the XO to allow Flash activities to run at >> 600x450, which would likely quadruple performance. This is why we've been adding XVideo support, which has not been a trivial task as it turns out. > We can do even better. > http://wiki.gnashdev.org/Release_0.8.5#Release_Goals shows XVideo > scaling support as one of the goals for the next Gnash, due in a month. Yep, hopefully the code will stabilize over the next week now that the holiday's are over. The Code freeze starts after FOSDEM, the release itself won't be out till late Feb. It will also have support for the MIT-SHM extension, which works now, and also helps with performance issues. We hope the combination of these two performance hacks helps on low end hardware like the XO. - rob - From cjb at laptop.org Mon Jan 5 12:37:17 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:37:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be__21777.6252924979$1231167822$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (David Van Assche's message of "Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:01:36 +0100") References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <8cc423ef0901050701l166a3edei1b9087d5b3c6f4be__21777.6252924979$1231167822$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, > This might be of interest: Salasaga is a GTK/Gnome based IDE used > to create eLearning for applications. With it, you take screenshots > of your applications, add highlights, text and external images, > then generate learning objects. Present output is in swf (flash) > format. Here's another app that appeared in my RSS reader today, I haven't tried it; it seems to contain some of the ideas Bryan's interested in, though: http://www.blueskyonmars.com/2009/01/05/build-desktop-apps-with-web-ui-and-python/ http://titaniumapp.com/ - Chris. -- Chris Ball From gregsmitholpc at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 13:14:41 2009 From: gregsmitholpc at gmail.com (Greg Smith) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:14:41 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Please help test our pre-release build of 8.2.1 Message-ID: <49624E11.2020802@laptop.org> Hi Sugar team, Can you help clarify the right Browse version for 8.2.0 and 8.2.1 per the thread below? I also left a related note on the 0.83 release notes discussion page: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.3 Thanks, Greg S ****************** Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:09:37 -0500 From: Mikus Grinbergs Subject: Re: [Testing] Please help test our pre-release build of 8.2.1 To: OLPC Devel Mailing List , testing at lists.laptop.org Message-ID: <496141B1.9040708 at bga.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Gary wrote: > Browse-98 . . . . . . . x x Browse-101 needed for 8.2.1 PDF support I Tested Browse-101 using the staging-7 build: - Browse-101 listed on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1 (i.e., http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/bundles/0.83/Browse-101.xo) is unacceptable to me -- it will not allow on-line user changes to the entries in about:config (I selected an entry and left-clicked, then clicked on 'modify' - nothing happened). [Besides, it copies PDFs to Journal, instead of showing them.] [Other wiki pages (Activities/G1G1/8.2) listed only Browse-98.] - http://dev.laptop.org/raw-attachment/ticket/9112/Browse-101.xo, built by Sayamindu, works - I *can* modify about:config Thus it appears there is Browse-101, and then there is Browse-101. mikus From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 13:27:17 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:27:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >> I think the template should be built into and supported by the Sugar >> dev team, rather than something that has to be copied around. > > I strongly disagree. We should send the clearest possible message that SWF, > a language with no good free spec and no good free interpreter, is not > recommended, even if it is supported. Software Freedom is a key part of the > Sugar labs mission, both officially and in fact. When the primary mission - educating the world's least served children - comes into conflict with Software Freedom, which one wins? How do you explain that to the deployments? Anyway, this is such a gray area to be taking a stand in. We are just talking about shipping and supporting a 200 line Gnash-based-activity launcher script, which can also launch Adobe if it happens to be installed. -Wade From rob at omnow.org Mon Jan 5 13:50:19 2009 From: rob at omnow.org (Rob Savoye) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:50:19 -0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4962566B.6040709@omnow.org> Wade Brainerd wrote: > just talking about shipping and supporting a 200 line > Gnash-based-activity launcher script, which can also launch Adobe if > it happens to be installed. Assuming you can talk Adobe into giving you a standalone version of their plugin... - rob - From cjb at laptop.org Mon Jan 5 15:03:33 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:03:33 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (Wade Brainerd's message of "Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:27:17 -0500") References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, > When the primary mission - educating the world's least served children > - comes into conflict with Software Freedom, which one wins? How do > you explain that to the deployments? This is a fine question. Here's my shot at it. First, I think it would be a mistake to think that we're the only group of people, or the only software project, interested in educating these children. It would be helpful for me, then, if we could be more specific about what we in particular are trying to do (although it contains the risk that we won't agree on that). It seems to me that Sugar exists because we claim at least the following failings of most educational software projects: * they don't allow the knowledge they contain to be *appropriated*. For example, translated into other languages or cultures so that it can be useful for the entire world, or modified, commented on and discussed. They might choose to disallow this technically (by not providing a method to perform the appropriation) or socially (by actively disallowing it). * they don't allow children to be *creators*, and not just consumers. We believe, as a consensus, that the best way to learn is by creation and problem-solving rather than by being dictated to. * they don't allow learning to be *collaborated upon*, critiqued, and conducted jointly. I'm sure this is less eloquent than the text that's already been written on our goals, but it's a start. What follows from it is that we should build software that: * is eminently modifiable by all, so that it can be appropriated into areas of the world and use cases that its authors did not consider. * should allow not just the consumption of content, but its outright creation. * should provide for pervasive sharing. Why did I just repeat all of this? It makes it easy for me to see that a system like Flash is not (yet) appropriate software for learning as we envision it, because it would not support our strategy of _how_ to achieve education of the world's children, and that strategy is our reason for not sitting back and letting the rest of the software projects out there solve the problem for us. For this reason, I would support having Sugar Labs advocate against the use of Flash, and think I can do this in an intellectually honest way. This doesn't mean I would stop someone from writing a Flash player wrapper if they want to, and it means I would likely change my mind if free Flash players and editors became more available. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From eben.eliason at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 15:52:32 2009 From: eben.eliason at gmail.com (Eben Eliason) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:52:32 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Frame icon for controlling 'wired' connection capability In-Reply-To: <49626DDB.5040004@bga.com> References: <49626DDB.5040004@bga.com> Message-ID: <948b197c0901051252n29db36e3hac385ad007785a67@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: > Been thinking about how to re-establish a wired ethernet connection that had > been "broken" (for whatever reason). [See Ticket #7785, and two posts to > devel at laptop.org with "#7785" in the Subject.] > > All I have to go by is Joyride (I normally install each build as it is > released). I've seen the 'Wired' icon in Frame -- but the way I remember > it, that icon only showed up once the wired ethernet connection was active. > [The current Joyride 2613 only shows me two unlabeled gray circles in the > bottom edge of Frame, neither of which can be used for anything. Do you > suppose they are meant to represent 'wired connection resource' and 'mesh > connection resource' ???] > > > What I am writing to you about is to request that the 'Wired' icon in Frame > be shown __all the time__ when a "wired adapter" is being detected by the > hardware. [Judging by the LEDs on the ethernet adapter I have plugged into > my XO, that adapter is "powered" (i.e., "detected") only when there is a > "live cable" plugged into it.] > > I believe that if the system is not (for whatever reason) automatically > using the physical wired connection, the user *needs* a means to indicate > "wired is what I want you to try now". When an appropriate icon is present > in the Frame, it is simpler to click there (and see what happens) than to > physically re-plug the adapter (and see what happens). That means the icon > needs to be there already, irrespective of "network use". The specification for the wired device is that it appears anytime a physical ethernet connection exists. I realize after reading your email that my advice to Simon (who implemented it), may have been ambiguous in this regard, assuming a wired network connection and not a physical connection. I'm not sure how it's presently implemented, but I concur that the device should be present anytime the physical cable is connected. Simon, do you have input to help clarify the current status? - Eben > [Ticket #7785 was on 8.2.x, which does not have a 'wired' icon in Frame. > The system had uselessly set up an 196.254.x.x address for the XO's > ethernet interface, whereas the ethernet itself provided only a 192.168.1.0 > network. I had to massively intervene to get the XO to pay attention to > that wired network's DHCP server.] > > Thanks, mikus > From bryan at olenepal.org Mon Jan 5 17:43:22 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:43:22 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> Message-ID: <1231195402.8571.2.camel@hitman> On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 10:27 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: > Thursday and Friday are more open. John Gilmore is confirmed for > Thursday afternoon but otherwise those meetings are mostly open and can > be changed. > > Do you want to take Friday AM 10AM - Noon or Thursday afternoon 3PM - 5PM? > > Pick a slot and fill it in. Add a section below with more detail and > link to it from the calendar if you want to give people a chance to see > the agenda in advance. > > I'm not sure how many sugar focused people will be there late in the > week but I expect you can get all the regulars from OLPC HQ at a minimum. > > Thanks, > > Greg S Great I will plan on Thursday afternoon. will put it in the wiki. How do I link it to the calendar? I will do the karma presentation since I have already written it. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From walter.bender at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 20:54:32 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:54:32 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2009-01-05 Message-ID: === Sugar Digest === I read the new Neal Stephenson book, Anathem, last week. There was one line I cannot resist sharing with the Sugar community. Raz, our hero, is a young mathematician who leaves the nest to solve any number of problems. At one point, he asks why he is the one upon whom everyone is leaning. "But Raz, you are educable, you can learn 'this kind of thing,'... You've spent your whole life ... becoming educable." Another book I read over the holidays is a new biography of Andrew Jackson. He remains a pretty controversial figure, but he knew the importance of "staying focused on the things that matter most and not dwelling on the things that pull us apart." In the case of Sugar Labs, the things that matters most are creating a great learning platform and making it available to learners everywhere. I am confident that in 2009, we will see Sugar in the hands of many more children and teachers. We'll see an accelerated pace of development and deployment across a diverse set of platforms under an even more diverse set of conditions. While we debate the various means towards our goals, we need to keep in mind that the most important metric we can hold up to our work is the impact on learning. On the one hand, we need to flexible and inclusive; on the other hand, we need to adhere to the core principles that make Sugar of value to the learner, putting an emphasis on quality over quantity. So while we shouldn't be overly zealous, we need to constantly remind ourselves and those whom we are trying to reach of the value of learning to learn: the authentic appropriation of knowledge, learning through expressing, debugging, reflection, and critique. If it does not impact the learning, we shouldn't be doing it. === Community jams, meet-ups, and meetings === FUDConF11 (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF11) will be held this week (9?11 January) at MIT (Cambridge, MA). === Help Wanted === Christian Marc Schmidt has been working on a static landing page for Sugar Labs. (The wiki is a powerful tool, but not the easiest place to get started from when you are new to Sugar.) Christian has uploaded a build onto a server (See http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/betasite). This version is fully dynamic, based on an XML->XSL translation using PHP 5 and Libxslt. Christian has tested it in all major browsers where it seems to work fine, but please exercise it some more. Christian is ready to concentrate on gathering content for the gallery and the activity sections. There is other content that needs to be prepared as well. As far as internationalization, we are thinking of adding a simple CSS dropdown underneath the links on the top-right edge of the page. We should decide how best to handle the translations, whether through Pootle or some other mechanism. One specific area where we are seeking help is in regard to illustrations. One project we have in mind is a comic-book-like narrative about Sugar to be featured on the static site. If anyone is interested in taking on such a project, please come forward. === Tech Talk === There are some Activity updates to report: * TurtleArt-27.xo * Yay!BeeSee-2.xo === Sugar Labs === Gary Martin has generated another SOM from the past week of discussion on the IAEP mailing list (Please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:2008-Dec-27-2009-Jan-2-som.jpg) Gary has also made some significant changes to the text-metric extraction code; he is trying to "fully normalize the frequency of each term". He hypothesizes that this will "allow the maps to more clearly show the finer details that are otherwise drowned out by heavy terms" like "Sugar", "Work", "Use", "Project", "Want", etc. He'll be posting some examples in the wiki. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From cjb at laptop.org Tue Jan 6 01:21:49 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:21:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <4962E71A.7070101@earthlink.net> (Stanley Sokolow's message of "Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:07:38 -0800") References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> <4962E71A.7070101@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi Stanley, > The FlashPlayer is a virtual machine for display of highly visual, > interactive, and compelling software content. I don't agree that > use of Flash as a platform would be incompatible with "our strategy > of _how_ to achieve education of the world's children" just because > it was created under the proprietary umbrella of Macromedia and now > Adobe. Please re-read my e-mail -- Flash's creation story was not in the list of reasons I gave for finding it an inappropriate platform for Sugar. > Regarding free development tools, the FlashDevelop IDE is free > open-source and quite good for developing source code for the > FlashPlayer. The various development kits (SDK) from Adobe and 3rd > parties for Flash development (ActionScript, Flex, AIR, Away3d, > etc.) are free downloads. Even if any of these tools were usable for the creation of Flash content (my impression is that they aren't), none of them run under the same operating system as Sugar, which makes them unavailable as editors for learners using Sugar (most of whom currently use Sugar on the OLPC XO). My argument is that a learning environment whose reason for existing is to encourage the creation and appropriation of content by learners should not attempt to accomplish this using a platform that provides *no method* for the learners using it to create or appropriate content! Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From sverma at sfsu.edu Tue Jan 6 01:54:34 2009 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:54:34 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Call for Participation Now Open In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5fb387c70901052254h1c61824bo489a108a0d573a9e@mail.gmail.com> Is anyone sending in proposals for OSCON 2009? This year it will (sadly) be in San Jose. I saw many XOs at OSCON in 2007 (Rob Savoye had the most visible one...he was walking around with it), but only two in 2008 - I had one and the OSUOSL guys had one. I also heard a lot of misleading opinions from the attendees (Windows/MSFT drama). So, at the very least, we should have a significant presence in the exhibit areas. Some of you Sugarheads should really present in sessions as well! Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: O'Reilly Open Source Convention Date: Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM Subject: Call for Participation Now Open To: sverma at sfsu.edu If you cannot read the information below, click here. News & Coverage Sponsorship opportunities Media partnership inquiries Be Part of OSCON 2009 O'Reilly's Open Source Convention, "Open for Business" as It Begins Its Second Decade O'Reilly Media invites developers, designers, sysadmins, community leaders, inventors, CTOs and CIOs, evangelists and activists, researchers, strategists, and entrepreneurs to lead conference sessions and tutorials at the eleventh O'Reilly Open Source Convention, July 20-24 in San Jose, California. The Call for Participation is now open. Submit your proposal by midnight PST February 3, 2009 With the global economy on shifting ground, the world is looking to the tech industry for solutions to a wide range of challenges. Ubiquitous computing, with smart phones at the leading edge, continues to expand. Open source is at the core of so many emerging technologies, driving the innovation engine. How can open source ? its tools as well as its principles ? contribute to making a difference in the business of computing? How can it help to create a sustainable lifestyle? In an uncertain economy, how can open source empower us? The first ten years of OSCON were about opening the minds of big business to the philosophy of open source. The next ten will be about opening the minds of the open source community to the practical possibilities of its future. As OSCON "goes to eleven" in 2009, we want to turn up the volume on efficiency, knowledge transfer, and working smarter within constraints to achieve more with what we already have?or even with less. What can you contribute? We want to hear about your winning techniques, favorite life-savers, and the system you've made that everyone will be using next year. We'll have tracks for sessions and tutorials on Linux, PHP, Perl, Python, Ruby, Java, Databases, Desktop Applications, Web Applications, Mobile, Administration, Security, People, Business, and Emerging Topics. We're seeking proposals for 45-minute sessions, 45-minute panel discussions, and 3-hour in-depth, hands-on tutorials. Some of the topics we want to consider at OSCON 2009 include: Doing more with less?finding opportunities in a constrained economy Design and usability?tools, techniques, and success stories Open source in smart phones and mobile networked devices Cloud computing, openness in distributed services Parallelization, grid, and multicore technologies Open web, open standards, open data AI, machine learning, and other ways of making software smarter than the people using it Open source in democracy, politics, government, and education Best practices for building a business model around open source Virtualization and appliances?their creation and deployment This is just to get you started. We want to hear your ideas, your stories, your successes (and failures). Focus your proposal on hands-on instruction and real-world examples to provide conference participants with information they can put to use immediately and inspiration that will propel their work for months to come. If you're passionate about open source, the open technologies shaping our future, building communities, crafting beautiful code, designing for users, or just getting things done, we invite you to answer the call for innovation and submit a proposal now, see the submission guidelines Meeting July 20-24 in San Jose, OSCON is the crossroads of all things open source, a deeply technical conference that brings community ideals face-to-face with business practicality. Join 3,000 of the best, brightest, and most interesting people to explore what's new and to help define, maintain, and extend the identity of what it means to be open source. OSCON is the place to be inspired and challenged, renew bonds to community, make new connections, and discover the most relevant projects and products to help you do your best. Early registration opens in March. To receive advance notification and stay informed on the program as it develops, sign up for the conference newsletter If you have ideas for speakers and topics that will make the convention a must attend event, send them to oscon-idea at oreilly.com For exhibition and sponsorship opportunities, please email Sharon Cordesse at scordesse at oreilly.com For media and promotional partner opportunities, please email to mediapartners at oreilly.com We hope to see you at OSCON 2009 next July, The OSCON 2009 Conference Team P.S. Help to shape the future of open source. Submit your proposal for a session or tutorial at OSCON 2009 by February 3, 2009 You are receiving this message because you signed up to receive the OSCON newsletter via email. To unsubscribe from this list, send a reply to this message or change your newsletter subscription options by visiting http://elists.oreilly.com For assistance, email webmaster at oreilly.com O'Reilly Media, Inc. 1005 Gravenstein Highway North, Sebastopol, CA 95472 (707) 827-7000 / (800) 998-9938 From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 6 04:33:38 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:33:38 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Architecture Documentation In-Reply-To: <242851610901030322q5c9efb57id5650b123aa6f6a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <50313.80950.qm@web65506.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <242851610901030322q5c9efb57id5650b123aa6f6a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901060133v304f86d7p7e2f9bbd77993974@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:22, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 20:35, Morgan Collett wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 19:58, David Farning wrote: >>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:10 AM, wrote: >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> As I am in between jobs, I do some volunteer work with the local OLPC >>>> office, helping them in technical and regulatory matters. However, my >>>> primary interest is software and have also been working with Walter on a >>>> proposal to globalize Sugar development. >>>> >>>> I stay in touch with Sugar activities through the Wiki and have been trying >>>> to get a handle on the articecture. Basically, how it complements/meshes >>>> with LINUX. Came across a good article on Bitfrost and one written by you >>>> on APIDOX. From my experience I know that this learning process is >>>> iterative and a lot comes with practical involvement but I would still >>>> appreciate if you can point me to some documents that give me an overview of >>>> the architecture. >> >> Our architecture overview is >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Architecture - quite sparse >> but feel free to ask specific questions on this list and we can >> provide the details. > > Just wanted to note that one of the reasons for that page to be so > scarce on details is that we are following pretty closely the > architecture of other X11 desktop environments like GNOME, KDE, etc, > so though we could extend quite deeply on several aspects, most of it > wouldn't be Sugar specific. > > And yeah, please ask any questions you have and we'll fill those > wholes in the wiki. One example: http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/intel_mid_arch.gif (from http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6616313390.html) Take out the Intel hw, UEFI and Hildon and substitute the top layer with learning-oriented software and you have pretty much the architecture of Sugar. Also look for architecture docs for GNOME Mobile-based products like Maemo, OpenMoko or ACCESS Linux Platform: http://www.gnome.org/mobile/ HTH, Tomeu > Thanks, > > Tomeu > >>>> To give you and idea of my absorption capacity (or lack thereof), l must add >>>> that I wrote code for DMERT (production system in 5ESS switch) based on UNIX >>>> SVR2 and was responsible for the R&D UNIX Kernel Development (retrofitting >>>> the standard UNIX scheduler to the R&D version). But for the past 17 years >>>> I have been out of internals and spent most of the time on user level >>>> services (Windows Netowrking, MS Exchange, MS SMS), Salses Support, Project >>>> Design, Government Policy, etc. I am OK with OOP concepts though. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Tariq Badsha >>>> >>> Tariq, >>> >>> I have cced your request to the sugar development list. One of the >>> developers will be able to help you out more then I can. >>> >>> thanks >>> david >> >> Regards >> Morgan >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 6 05:31:36 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:31:36 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Request for help packaging activities for Sugar on a Stick f Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 10:05 PM, David Farning wrote: >> particularly in case of activities.s.o > > It is a little early to start reworking the package manager. > > We are talking to distributions about certifying Sugar on netbooks for > OEMS. In order to feel comfortable supporting Sugar, the > distributions want to be able to use the package management systems as > and processes with which thay are comfortable. I hope we will have a good discussion at fudcon about this. I agree that using normal packages is the most straight forward approach from the distribution point of view. But early Sugar design went in a different direction (with at least a few good reason). So we need to figure out how to go forward exactly. Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 6 05:34:55 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:34:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] XOCamp in Cambridge January 12 - 16 In-Reply-To: <494FA919.9040603@laptop.org> References: <494BECE7.2070904@laptop.org> <494FA919.9040603@laptop.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Greg Smith wrote: > Hi Maroc, > > I moved it to Monday at 3PM. I hope you and Simon can make it. > > That sounds right re: agenda. I expanded it a little and put it here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2#Sugar_Synch_Up > > Add and edit as needed. Can you bring the presentation on features and bugs > fixes in the release? > > Also, put your name on the list if you plan to be there: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2#Attendees Hello, I will write a summary of what I can/would like to talk about today or tomorrow. Sorry for the delay, I had a long, real vacation this time! Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 6 05:46:33 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:46:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activity page wiki location? In-Reply-To: References: <0143F1D8-03A1-41C4-ACBF-2159B23A0F6F@garycmartin.com> <242851610812230425t49df43c8w545f1df4294c3266@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Morgan Collett wrote: > I think Gary's question was (and if not, certainly mine is): Where > should we be documenting, or project-managing, the activity > development? For example, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Chat - should this > migrate to http://sugarlabs.org/go/Chat? These pages are actually a mix of development and user oriented information. I hope as git.sl.o and activities.sl.o gets into shape, a lot of this information will be available from there (in a more structured and easy to maintain way than a wiki page). But we will surely still need activities homepage to pull everything together and provide information that isn't covered by the web services. I think most of these pages should be hosted at sugarlabs.org. Except maybe some special cases I don't see why an activity author would want to limit his audience to OLPC. I had actually volunteered a few weeks ago to champion the migration (our wiki needs a few plugins etc), but I haven't had time to get at it yet. Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 6 06:00:01 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:00:01 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate 26 In-Reply-To: <242851610901030337x125eddbapfe2fb8bd0d6a655@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901030337x125eddbapfe2fb8bd0d6a655@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > About uploading tarballs, I think you need to ask for an account to bernie. If you haven't yet, please open a ticket on http://dev.sugarlabs.org, under the shell.sugarlabs.org component, to request a shell account. Remeber to attach your public ssh key. Marco From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Tue Jan 6 06:36:34 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:36:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2009-01-05 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090106113634.GA5294@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:54:32PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > Christian Marc Schmidt has been working on a static landing page for > Sugar Labs. (The wiki is a powerful tool, but not the easiest place to > get started from when you are new to Sugar.) Christian has uploaded a > build onto a server (See > http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/betasite). This > version is fully dynamic, based on an XML->XSL translation using PHP 5 > and Libxslt. Christian has tested it in all major browsers where it > seems to work fine, but please exercise it some more. I just gave it a try in w3m (a "text-mode" browser I'm using 99% of the time; no CSS, no JavaScript etc.). It mostly displays fine (AFAICT), but since the headings aren't emphasized in any way, it's a bit hard to read. AIUI it's primarily a browser start page for Browse, so this might not matter at all. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090106/efb02a83/attachment.pgp From overbyte at earthlink.net Tue Jan 6 00:07:38 2009 From: overbyte at earthlink.net (Stanley Sokolow) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:07:38 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4962E71A.7070101@earthlink.net> Hi, all, The FlashPlayer is a virtual machine for display of highly visual, interactive, and compelling software content. I don't agree that use of Flash as a platform would be incompatible with "our strategy of _how_ to achieve education of the world's children" just because it was created under the proprietary umbrella of Macromedia and now Adobe. In case you are not aware of the opening of Flash source to software developers, here's a short article: http://www.flashmagazine.com/news/detail/open_screen_project_opens_adobe_even_more/ The use of a closed-source FlashPlayer is no more of an impediment to creating good educational software than is the use of the proprietary hardware inside the XO. Does anyone care that the processor components inside those chips are not open source? They're still a platform upon which creative people can build out their free & open-source ideas. The creativity is built on top of the platform, not necessarily within the platform. However, it's really not much of an issue because the guts of the XO barely meet the minimum requirements of the Flash player and don't meet the minimum for video playback. Flash animations work ok at 450 MHz, but video needs more speed to look smooth. As a cross-platform virtual machine, however, there's nothing out there as ubiquitous as Flash. The same program will play on Windows, Mac, & Linux (with careful attention to the few platform differences that Flash exposes to the programmer). It's even moving onto cell phones. If you would like an example of how Flash can provide an easy to use, collaborative environment, try www.vyew.com on your XO. It's a Flash application. Unfortunately, the FlashPlayer for Linux doesn't (yet) have appropriate drivers for the webcam in the XO, so you can't send video from the XO, but you can receive and view video from someone else collaborating on the vyew application while sharing a "whiteboard" for drawing and typing collaboratively. Regarding free development tools, the FlashDevelop IDE is free open-source and quite good for developing source code for the FlashPlayer. The various development kits (SDK) from Adobe and 3rd parties for Flash development (ActionScript, Flex, AIR, Away3d, etc.) are free downloads. Stan ==================== Chris Ball wrote: > Hi, > > > When the primary mission - educating the world's least served children > > - comes into conflict with Software Freedom, which one wins? How do > > you explain that to the deployments? > > This is a fine question. Here's my shot at it. > > First, I think it would be a mistake to think that we're the only group > of people, or the only software project, interested in educating these > children. It would be helpful for me, then, if we could be more > specific about what we in particular are trying to do (although it > contains the risk that we won't agree on that). It seems to me that > Sugar exists because we claim at least the following failings of most > educational software projects: > > * they don't allow the knowledge they contain to be *appropriated*. For > example, translated into other languages or cultures so that it can be > useful for the entire world, or modified, commented on and discussed. > They might choose to disallow this technically (by not providing a > method to perform the appropriation) or socially (by actively > disallowing it). > > * they don't allow children to be *creators*, and not just consumers. > We believe, as a consensus, that the best way to learn is by creation > and problem-solving rather than by being dictated to. > > * they don't allow learning to be *collaborated upon*, critiqued, > and conducted jointly. > > I'm sure this is less eloquent than the text that's already been written > on our goals, but it's a start. What follows from it is that we should > build software that: > > * is eminently modifiable by all, so that it can be appropriated into > areas of the world and use cases that its authors did not consider. > > * should allow not just the consumption of content, but its outright > creation. > > * should provide for pervasive sharing. > > Why did I just repeat all of this? It makes it easy for me to see that > a system like Flash is not (yet) appropriate software for learning as > we envision it, because it would not support our strategy of _how_ to > achieve education of the world's children, and that strategy is our > reason for not sitting back and letting the rest of the software > projects out there solve the problem for us. > > For this reason, I would support having Sugar Labs advocate against the > use of Flash, and think I can do this in an intellectually honest way. > This doesn't mean I would stop someone from writing a Flash player > wrapper if they want to, and it means I would likely change my mind > if free Flash players and editors became more available. > > Thanks, > > - Chris. > From jameson.quinn at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 08:12:04 2009 From: jameson.quinn at gmail.com (Jameson Quinn) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:12:04 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> Message-ID: Sorry, can I request that at least the nepal notes be rescheduled? I can not get there until Tuesday, and would like to be there for this talk. Some talks I would not mind missing as much are Fedora and power issues. Thanks, Jameson On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Greg Smith wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > Both sound like very good subjects. > > I have you down for two hours Monday afternoon: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2#Monday_January_12.2C_2009 > > My goal for the first day is to give an overview of the challenges faced > by deployments and how we hope to address them in release 9.1.0. > Hopefully your slot Monday can address Nepal's experience and next stage > plans. > > After you on Monday afternoon, is a working meeting to define how we > ensure the latest Sugar is stable and how we include it in 9.1.0. > > Then we cover the technical details of each 9.1 area Tues. and Wed. > > Thursday and Friday are more open. John Gilmore is confirmed for > Thursday afternoon but otherwise those meetings are mostly open and can > be changed. > > Do you want to take Friday AM 10AM - Noon or Thursday afternoon 3PM - 5PM? > > Pick a slot and fill it in. Add a section below with more detail and > link to it from the calendar if you want to give people a chance to see > the agenda in advance. > > I'm not sure how many sugar focused people will be there late in the > week but I expect you can get all the regulars from OLPC HQ at a minimum. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > Bryan Berry wrote: > > I would like to give the following talks at XOCamp2 if there is space in > > the schedule for them and others are interested. Please let me know if > > you would be interested > > > > 1. Evolution of a deployment organization. > > > > About the challenges of building a deployment team from scratch and > > lesson learned along the way. Not a very technical talk. > > > > 2. Karma - Not for Hackers, for Designers > > > > Talk about my still evolving ideas for a flash-based activity framework > > called Karma > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090106/1d8b00c1/attachment.htm From gregsmitholpc at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 10:06:28 2009 From: gregsmitholpc at gmail.com (Greg Smith) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:06:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] XO Camp Next Week Message-ID: <49637374.1010508@laptop.org> Hi All, Just a reminder that the XO Camp conference is on for next week, January 12 - 16 at OLPC head quarters in Cambridge. Its an open, technical meeting and you are all invited. See the agenda here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2 Please put your name on the attendee list if you are coming. I have lined up a special guest to present on Friday, 1/16 10AM to Noon. Ron Canuel is the Director General of the Eastern Townships Board in Quebec. They have been running a 1 - 1 computer program (Mac based) in their schools for several years. See: http://www.etsb.qc.ca/en/EnhancedLearningStrategy/default.shtm They are also advising Uruguay on their implementation. Ron will present on their experience and lessons learned. He will bring his technical and project leads to the meeting as well. Let me know if anyone has specific questions or areas they would like Ron to cover. Questions and comments welcome. I hope to see you next week! Thanks, Greg S From gregsmitholpc at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 10:11:13 2009 From: gregsmitholpc at gmail.com (Greg Smith) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:11:13 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> Message-ID: <49637491.9010208@laptop.org> Hi Jameson, Sorry, I think its too late to change the schedule. A lot of people are coming in from out of town and some have set their flights to coincide with the agenda. You can probably catch Bryan one on one sometime that week, especially if there is beer or lunch involved ;-) BTW I think you have made a great contribution to the project for a long time. I look forward to meeting you in person and I'll try to make sure you get access to all the info you need while you are here. Thanks, Greg S Jameson Quinn wrote: > Sorry, can I request that at least the nepal notes be rescheduled? I can not > get there until Tuesday, and would like to be there for this talk. Some > talks I would not mind missing as much are Fedora and power issues. > > Thanks, > Jameson > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Greg Smith wrote: > >> Hi Bryan, >> >> Both sound like very good subjects. >> >> I have you down for two hours Monday afternoon: >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2#Monday_January_12.2C_2009 >> >> My goal for the first day is to give an overview of the challenges faced >> by deployments and how we hope to address them in release 9.1.0. >> Hopefully your slot Monday can address Nepal's experience and next stage >> plans. >> >> After you on Monday afternoon, is a working meeting to define how we >> ensure the latest Sugar is stable and how we include it in 9.1.0. >> >> Then we cover the technical details of each 9.1 area Tues. and Wed. >> >> Thursday and Friday are more open. John Gilmore is confirmed for >> Thursday afternoon but otherwise those meetings are mostly open and can >> be changed. >> >> Do you want to take Friday AM 10AM - Noon or Thursday afternoon 3PM - 5PM? >> >> Pick a slot and fill it in. Add a section below with more detail and >> link to it from the calendar if you want to give people a chance to see >> the agenda in advance. >> >> I'm not sure how many sugar focused people will be there late in the >> week but I expect you can get all the regulars from OLPC HQ at a minimum. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Greg S >> >> Bryan Berry wrote: >>> I would like to give the following talks at XOCamp2 if there is space in >>> the schedule for them and others are interested. Please let me know if >>> you would be interested >>> >>> 1. Evolution of a deployment organization. >>> >>> About the challenges of building a deployment team from scratch and >>> lesson learned along the way. Not a very technical talk. >>> >>> 2. Karma - Not for Hackers, for Designers >>> >>> Talk about my still evolving ideas for a flash-based activity framework >>> called Karma >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From bryan at olenepal.org Tue Jan 6 10:54:19 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:54:19 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: <49637491.9010208@laptop.org> References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> <49637491.9010208@laptop.org> Message-ID: <1231257259.10210.7.camel@hitman> On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 10:11 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: > Hi Jameson, > > Sorry, I think its too late to change the schedule. A lot of people are > coming in from out of town and some have set their flights to coincide > with the agenda. > > You can probably catch Bryan one on one sometime that week, especially > if there is beer or lunch involved ;-) > > BTW I think you have made a great contribution to the project for a long > time. I look forward to meeting you in person and I'll try to make sure > you get access to all the info you need while you are here. > > Thanks, > > Greg S Jameson, the two of us are do for a seriously long meeting anyways. I can review my presentation w/ you in person. I second Greg's statement that you have made a great contribution to this project over a long time. I am very much looking forward to meeting you in person. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From dc.loco at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 10:47:50 2009 From: dc.loco at gmail.com (Kevin Cole) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:47:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> <4962E71A.7070101@earthlink.net> Message-ID: OpenLaszlo anyone? Not that I especially know what I'm talking about, but I get the impression it's trying to be an alternative to Flash, as well as accomodating Flash. Details at: http://www.openlaszlo.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenLaszlo From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 11:04:34 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:34 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901060804xebf85aep7537b30cfa5cfb6e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > It seems to me that > Sugar exists because we claim at least the following failings of most > educational software projects: > > * they don't allow the knowledge they contain to be *appropriated*. > * they don't allow children to be *creators* > * they don't allow learning to be *collaborated upon* I totally agree with these, but let me add two more perhaps unstated ones. 1. Existing educational software costs a lot of *money*, or else is *poorly designed*. In my state, entire classes of elementary school students receive MacBooks from the school, loaded with advanced educational software. Even with Apple's massive discounting, the hardware + software must cost around $1500 per student. Further, a lot of the existing open source educational software is fairly weak. It's even further behind the open source desktop software, which still has a long way to go to catch up with Microsoft, Apple and the other commercial vendors. To me, Sugar represents the best effort yet to provide actual quality, cohesive educational software as free software. Some Flash animations are poorly designed, but many are not, they can be made quickly and targeted at specific educational goals. The deployments have access to trained Flash programmers who are willing to help out. 2. Existing educational software does not *run on the XO*. The XO is the cheap hardware platform we are delivering to under served children, so what software they can use to learn with must run on this limited platform. Flash programs don't run great right now, but with some tweaking I believe they could probably be made to run acceptably. Best, -Wade From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 6 11:08:00 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:08:00 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: <1231257259.10210.7.camel@hitman> References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> <496226C9.8030905@laptop.org> <49637491.9010208@laptop.org> <1231257259.10210.7.camel@hitman> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 10:11 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: >> Hi Jameson, >> >> Sorry, I think its too late to change the schedule. A lot of people are >> coming in from out of town and some have set their flights to coincide >> with the agenda. >> >> You can probably catch Bryan one on one sometime that week, especially >> if there is beer or lunch involved ;-) >> >> BTW I think you have made a great contribution to the project for a long >> time. I look forward to meeting you in person and I'll try to make sure >> you get access to all the info you need while you are here. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Greg S > > Jameson, the two of us are do for a seriously long meeting anyways. I > can review my presentation w/ you in person. > > I second Greg's statement that you have made a great contribution to > this project over a long time. I am very much looking forward to meeting > you in person. > > Jameson, Bryan; Luis is also coming from Uruguay. He will be another valuable voice for deployments. david From erikb at mediamods.com Tue Jan 6 11:28:16 2009 From: erikb at mediamods.com (Erik Blankinship) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:28:16 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Flash at Sugar Labs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901060804xebf85aep7537b30cfa5cfb6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901041823i3ad3deb4q3b274d4f6edf29ab@mail.gmail.com> <659C6A9C-6780-4373-8148-2A24F84E95AF@freudenbergs.de> <7087c32a0901050616o68418605s5e2acc487247ae3e@mail.gmail.com> <49623E5A.3050504@fas.harvard.edu> <7087c32a0901051027t58e8c3e0l9f548990ae71c813__585.117334458296$1231180158$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901060804xebf85aep7537b30cfa5cfb6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: For those interested in integrating the embedded browser (xul), replete with javascript (and presumably all plugins), into a sugar activity, looking at the Map activity might offer some good starting points. See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Map_(activity) In addition to simply embedding the browser component, the Map activity also: - matches pixel position information from the browser component directly to activity coordinates (overlaying gstreamer video streams over a map in the browser) - runs a local web server and also connects to a remote web server to mix local javascript with remote javascript - handles both "ajax" and "comet" connections allowing for fluid interaction with the remote html/javascript content and the activity's gtk widgets - can run multiple instances of itself on one machine without port conflicts - saves activity data to the journal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090106/1a0ea7b7/attachment-0001.htm From sj at laptop.org Tue Jan 6 13:41:40 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:41:40 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: XO Camp on next week In-Reply-To: <496372DB.5070402@laptop.org> References: <496372DB.5070402@laptop.org> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901061041o17e21cd2g3db213b178a0c383@mail.gmail.com> Forwarding to olpc-open. Note also that this weekend (Friday through Sunday) is FUDCon, with many OLPC presentations and events taking place there as well: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF11 --SJ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Greg Smith Date: Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:03 AM Subject: XO Camp on next week To: OLPC Development Hi All, Just a reminder that the XO Camp conference is on for next week, January 12 - 16 at OLPC head quarters in Cambridge. Its an open meeting technical meeting and you are all invited. See the agenda here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2 Please put your name on the attendee list if you are coming. I have lined up a special guest to present on Friday, 1/16 10AM to Noon. Ron Canuel is the Director General of the Eastern Townships Board in Quebec. They have been running a 1 - 1 computer program (Mac based) in their schools for several years. See: http://www.etsb.qc.ca/en/EnhancedLearningStrategy/default.shtm They are also advising Uruguay on their implementation. Ron will present on their experience and lessons learned. He will bring his technical and project leads to the meeting as well. Let me know if anyone has specific questions or areas they would like Ron to cover. Questions and comments welcome. I hope to see you next week! Thanks, Greg S _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list Devel at lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel From walter.bender at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 18:33:57 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 18:33:57 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] TurtleArt update Message-ID: I've created a new version of Turtle Art I'd like some feedback on before I make it an official release. There are three significant additions: (1) I folded in the Turtle Art with Sensors panel so that you can use volume, pitch, etc. as inputs to the turtle. (It works on non-OLPC-XO hardware, but you cannot use the voltage and resistance inputs.) (2) I added (with help from Luis Michelena) some new box and stack blocks that let you name variables and procedures. (3) I added push and pop (currently enabled only in the English version). This is in response to requests to be able to pass arguments into stacks. I thought it a simple, powerful mechanism, although I expect it may be controversial. http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/9/96/TurtleArt-28.xo -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From dirakx at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 21:17:49 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:17:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Stop Button not working for my application In-Reply-To: <116515210901060620p44370f73n4812543457d8a372@mail.gmail.com> References: <116515210901060620p44370f73n4812543457d8a372@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Rafael Ortiz ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: shivaprasad javali Date: 2009/1/6 Subject: Stop Button not working for my application To: OLPC Devel Hi, I have ported my application running on Linux to the XO. The application runs alright but when I click on the stop button( The one provided by sugar and not the one present in my application) the application doesn't shutdown like other applications and I don't know why. What really happens when we press the stop button corresponding to an activity. What signals are sent to the activity? Thanks jbsp72 _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list Devel at lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090106/b5b1c61f/attachment.htm From guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk Wed Jan 7 06:13:57 2009 From: guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk (Guillaume Desmottes) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:13:57 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes Message-ID: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> Hi guys, I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! Basically this means that stream tubes will use a TCP connection (using SOCKS 5) to transfer their data instead of sending them through the server with IBB (base64 encoding). If the socks5 connection can't be established (because peers are on different NAT's for example) then Gabble will fallback to IBB. This should drastically improve stream tube performances and reduce server's band-with consumption. As all of this is pure Telepathy implementation details, activities using stream tubes (as Read) doesn't have to change a single line of their code to benefit of this improvement! Clients just have to upgrade their Gabble. Of course, there are probably bugs in the current implementation so it would be good if Sugar users could start to test it ASAP. We should observe the following results in these scenario: - old Gabble <-> new Gabble: continue to use IBB as before. - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on the same network: use sock5 connections (the transfer of the shared document in Read should be really faster) - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on different networks: try to use sock5 and the fallback to IBB. This is the first step in our "improve tubes connectivity" plan and lead the way to new improvements as using a socks5 relay to transfer data if direct connection is impossible. The ultimate goal is to use jingle to benefit real NAT penetration (as in audio/video calls). Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you could have. Regards, G. [1] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/telepathy/2009-January/002734.html -- Guillaume Desmottes Jabber GPG 1024D/711E31B1 | 1B5A 1BA8 11AA F0F1 2169 E28A AC55 8671 711E 31B1 From bert at freudenbergs.de Wed Jan 7 06:22:59 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:22:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> References: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: On 07.01.2009, at 12:13, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: > Hi guys, > > I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a > long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! Great! > Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you > could have. Are you going to put this in OLPC's Joyride? Didn't see 7.17 there, it's still at 7.16. - Bert - From guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk Wed Jan 7 06:42:03 2009 From: guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk (Guillaume Desmottes) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:42:03 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: References: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: <1231328523.11228.20.camel@cass-lpt> Le mercredi 07 janvier 2009 ? 12:22 +0100, Bert Freudenberg a ?crit : > On 07.01.2009, at 12:13, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a > > long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! > > Great! > > > Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you > > could have. > > > Are you going to put this in OLPC's Joyride? Didn't see 7.17 there, > it's still at 7.16. I'm not really following Joyride's dev cycle but yes, it would be nice to have it if possible. So it would be great if someone can upgrade the package. G. From bert at freudenbergs.de Wed Jan 7 07:17:43 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:17:43 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: <1231328523.11228.20.camel@cass-lpt> References: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> <1231328523.11228.20.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: <3272DB2C-9ABE-49FE-B7B6-F09F1A9185DC@freudenbergs.de> (cc'ing olpc) On 07.01.2009, at 12:42, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: > Le mercredi 07 janvier 2009 ? 12:22 +0100, Bert Freudenberg a ?crit : >> On 07.01.2009, at 12:13, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a >>> long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! >> >> Great! >> >>> Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you >>> could have. >> >> >> Are you going to put this in OLPC's Joyride? Didn't see 7.17 there, >> it's still at 7.16. > > I'm not really following Joyride's dev cycle but yes, it would be nice > to have it if possible. So it would be great if someone can upgrade > the > package. Looks like 0.7.17 and 0.7.18 are only tagged for Fedora 11 but not for olpc4: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/telepathy-gabble/ Could someone fix this? - Bert - From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 7 07:27:17 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:27:17 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> References: <1231326837.11228.18.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: <242851610901070427n38fe6f59q79719c8ba908bb28@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:13, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: > Hi guys, > > I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a > long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! > > Basically this means that stream tubes will use a TCP connection (using > SOCKS 5) to transfer their data instead of sending them through the > server with IBB (base64 encoding). If the socks5 connection can't be > established (because peers are on different NAT's for example) then > Gabble will fallback to IBB. > This should drastically improve stream tube performances and reduce > server's band-with consumption. > > As all of this is pure Telepathy implementation details, activities > using stream tubes (as Read) doesn't have to change a single line of > their code to benefit of this improvement! Clients just have to upgrade > their Gabble. > > Of course, there are probably bugs in the current implementation so it > would be good if Sugar users could start to test it ASAP. > We should observe the following results in these scenario: > > - old Gabble <-> new Gabble: continue to use IBB as before. > - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on the same network: use sock5 connections > (the transfer of the shared document in Read should be really faster) > - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on different networks: try to use sock5 and > the fallback to IBB. > > This is the first step in our "improve tubes connectivity" plan and lead > the way to new improvements as using a socks5 relay to transfer data if > direct connection is impossible. The ultimate goal is to use jingle to > benefit real NAT penetration (as in audio/video calls). > > Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you > could have. I will set aside some time for testing this, but will have to be after the feature freeze, so about one week from now. Congrats for the good work, Tomeu From meta.sj at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 13:14:04 2009 From: meta.sj at gmail.com (Samuel Klein) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:14:04 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Food Force 2 on the XO Message-ID: <5396c0d10901071014o7c1d13am73ac269369b78dfa@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, Please take a look at the latest release of the Food Force on XO game: http://code.google.com/p/foodforce/downloads/list The coding team is based in India, and while they have their own regular meetings they would appreciate more testing and feedback from others. This project has the steady support of the World Food Program, and is a great opportunity for people who want to work on food and wellness activities to get involved. Regards, SJ From dirakx at gmail.com Wed Jan 7 14:52:10 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:52:10 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: FYI Rafael Ortiz ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: LH Date: Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:17 AM Subject: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! To: Google Summer of Code Discuss < google-summer-of-code-discuss at googlegroups.com> Hello everyone, While we will be making a formal announcement with more details later this year, we wanted to let all would-be student participants in Google Summer of Code 2009 know that we will be holding the program once again this year. If you are interested in participating, it's a great idea to begin investigating FOSS projects you would enjoy contributing to *now*. Not sure where to get started? No time like the present to subscribe to project mailing lists, hang out in project IRC channels or in their forums, check out some source code and start investigating how things work. We have universally heard from our mentors that their most successful students are those who got involved with the project early. You'll look great to your would-be mentors if you ask them smart questions. Major bonus points if you submit a patch or two. Going through your first code reviews with a new Open Source project is a rite of passage in FOSS development and it's a great way to show that you are engaged with the project. Remember, your mentors want to learn more about both your strengths and weaknesses, so don't be afraid to make mistakes. They happen to the best of us. If you're trying to decide which projects may be right for you or would like to hear some advice from past participants, check out our Advice for Students page: http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents We'll be letting folks know more details at the upcoming FOSDEM conference, so until then stay tuned for more details. Please bear in mind, though, that not all organizations that participated in GSoC 2008 will be returning for 2009. Take time now to explore your interests and scratch your own itch - that is what Open Source is all about! Cheers, LH -- Leslie Hawthorn Program Manager - Open Source Google Inc. http://code.google.com/opensource/ I blog here: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com - http://www.hawthornlandings.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Summer of Code Discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to google-summer-of-code-discuss at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-summer-of-code-discuss+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090107/a1ba9fb6/attachment.htm From gregsmitholpc at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 10:02:21 2009 From: gregsmitholpc at gmail.com (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:02:21 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Greg Smith Over and Out Message-ID: <4966157D.8000603@laptop.org> Hi All, My time on this project is over for now! I was laid off yesterday and tomorrow is my last day at OLPC. So many things to follow up on, its hard to know where to begin handing off. I can say that XO Camp is on for next week as planned. SJ is now coordinating it. Aside from that, contact Ed McNierney for any development questions or anything else on my plate. I'm sorry to drop the ball, but I need to find a new job ASAP. Perhaps I can participate again in the future but I'm unsubscribing from all lists as of tomorrow. If I can pass along some history or other work, don't hesitate to contact me. My new e-mail address: gregsmithpm at gmail.com. To come to OLPC, I left a safe and lucrative job making some of the most advanced computers in the world. I took a big risk to work on what I think is important and I gave it everything I could. I have no regrets. I'm proud of what I accomplished and honored to have been a member of this great community. Its time to go back and take care of my own family again. Let me know if anyone has leads on Product Manager openings in Massachusetts or tele-commuting. My technical specialties have been high-end routers and networking, distributed server architectures, image and video processing, and online marketing including data analysis. Now I'll add open source development, social networking/Web 2.0, educational software, low cost computing and wireless networking to that list ;-) As a product manager, I write the business case and technical requirements and manage all aspects of the project to get a quality product built and shipped on time. Give me n engineers to work with and I'll give you n Million $s in revenue in the first year and double that every 6 months after. That's my new pitch :-) Send me an e-mail with any leads or for a copy of my resume. Good luck! Please keep at it if you can. There are hundreds of thousands of kids using the XO now. Regardless of organizational priorities, they deserve the very best software available. Thanks, Greg S From bryan at olenepal.org Thu Jan 8 11:25:39 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:25:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Greg Smith Over and Out In-Reply-To: <4966157D.8000603@laptop.org> References: <4966157D.8000603@laptop.org> Message-ID: <1231431939.7466.23.camel@hitman> I am really sorry to read this Greg. You have done a fantastic job and you will be sorely missed. I think you have been a damn good manager and you have contributed a lot to this project, certainly to Nepal's deployments and others. Your real impact has been in making the XO and Sugar a more sturdy and predictable product that will work in the field and not just on the drawing board. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 10:02 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: > Hi All, > > My time on this project is over for now! I was laid off yesterday and > tomorrow is my last day at OLPC. > > So many things to follow up on, its hard to know where to begin handing > off. I can say that XO Camp is on for next week as planned. SJ is now > coordinating it. > > Aside from that, contact Ed McNierney for any > development questions or anything else on my plate. > > I'm sorry to drop the ball, but I need to find a new job ASAP. Perhaps I > can participate again in the future but I'm unsubscribing from all lists > as of tomorrow. > > If I can pass along some history or other work, don't hesitate to > contact me. > > My new e-mail address: gregsmithpm at gmail.com. > > To come to OLPC, I left a safe and lucrative job making some of the most > advanced computers in the world. I took a big risk to work on what I > think is important and I gave it everything I could. > > I have no regrets. I'm proud of what I accomplished and honored to have > been a member of this great community. > > Its time to go back and take care of my own family again. Let me know if > anyone has leads on Product Manager openings in Massachusetts or > tele-commuting. My technical specialties have been high-end routers and > networking, distributed server architectures, image and video > processing, and online marketing including data analysis. Now I'll add > open source development, social networking/Web 2.0, educational > software, low cost computing and wireless networking to that list ;-) > > As a product manager, I write the business case and technical > requirements and manage all aspects of the project to get a quality > product built and shipped on time. Give me n engineers to work with and > I'll give you n Million $s in revenue in the first year and double that > every 6 months after. > > That's my new pitch :-) Send me an e-mail with any leads or for a copy > of my resume. > > Good luck! Please keep at it if you can. There are hundreds of thousands > of kids using the XO now. Regardless of organizational priorities, they > deserve the very best software available. > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From dirakx at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 13:58:55 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:58:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Greg Smith Over and Out In-Reply-To: <1231431939.7466.23.camel@hitman> References: <4966157D.8000603@laptop.org> <1231431939.7466.23.camel@hitman> Message-ID: Hi Greg. You have been an inspiration and a source of strength for all the LA volunteers..without you OLPC-sur would not have been as it is now. I also want to thank you for the help you gave me to organize efforts in Colombia Thank you so much..and good luck in your future endeavors. P.S if you come to Colombia sometime, i'll be glad to be your host. Rafael Ortiz On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Bryan Berry wrote: > I am really sorry to read this Greg. You have done a fantastic job and > you will be sorely missed. I think you have been a damn good manager and > you have contributed a lot to this project, certainly to Nepal's > deployments and others. > > Your real impact has been in making the XO and Sugar a more sturdy and > predictable product that will work in the field and not just on the > drawing board. > > On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 10:02 -0500, Greg Smith wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > My time on this project is over for now! I was laid off yesterday and > > tomorrow is my last day at OLPC. > > > > So many things to follow up on, its hard to know where to begin handing > > off. I can say that XO Camp is on for next week as planned. SJ is now > > coordinating it. > > > > Aside from that, contact Ed McNierney for any > > development questions or anything else on my plate. > > > > I'm sorry to drop the ball, but I need to find a new job ASAP. Perhaps I > > can participate again in the future but I'm unsubscribing from all lists > > as of tomorrow. > > > > If I can pass along some history or other work, don't hesitate to > > contact me. > > > > My new e-mail address: gregsmithpm at gmail.com. > > > > To come to OLPC, I left a safe and lucrative job making some of the most > > advanced computers in the world. I took a big risk to work on what I > > think is important and I gave it everything I could. > > > > I have no regrets. I'm proud of what I accomplished and honored to have > > been a member of this great community. > > > > Its time to go back and take care of my own family again. Let me know if > > anyone has leads on Product Manager openings in Massachusetts or > > tele-commuting. My technical specialties have been high-end routers and > > networking, distributed server architectures, image and video > > processing, and online marketing including data analysis. Now I'll add > > open source development, social networking/Web 2.0, educational > > software, low cost computing and wireless networking to that list ;-) > > > > As a product manager, I write the business case and technical > > requirements and manage all aspects of the project to get a quality > > product built and shipped on time. Give me n engineers to work with and > > I'll give you n Million $s in revenue in the first year and double that > > every 6 months after. > > > > That's my new pitch :-) Send me an e-mail with any leads or for a copy > > of my resume. > > > > Good luck! Please keep at it if you can. There are hundreds of thousands > > of kids using the XO now. Regardless of organizational priorities, they > > deserve the very best software available. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greg S > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090108/c455047c/attachment.htm From mel at melchua.com Thu Jan 8 15:33:15 2009 From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:33:15 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Excellent. Sometime next week I'll start stepping up the "Sugar Labs does Summer of Code" stuff once more, and get in touch with Leslie - thanks for the ping! Here's our current gameplan: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code (It started as a Marketing Team project, but is now under Development, and in any case help generating project ideas - or any kind of help at all, in fact - is very welcomed.) --Mel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090108/53a60b53/attachment.htm From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Thu Jan 8 15:39:09 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:39:09 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I don't know anything about GSoC, but to minimize confusion, it seems like it might be helpful to inform Google that all OLPC GSoC participation will occur via Sugar Labs (if indeed this is the case). That way the GSoC people will not be surprised when all OLPC-related applications come through Sugar Labs, and none come from OLPC. - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklmZG0ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ0+ACdEACzTs1voHwnmYp6CDnss+qZ Et4AniEcp+J22VtDrxOREQ6N8PlnHzh4 =hHM2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wadetb at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 15:49:39 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:49:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901081249hfdb33e7w3f124c2c2f9cafc9@mail.gmail.com> I was pretty involved last year, I'd be happy to help out again from a SL perspective. Particularly the Collaboration aspect. -Wade On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > Excellent. Sometime next week I'll start stepping up the "Sugar Labs does > Summer of Code" stuff once more, and get in touch with Leslie - thanks for > the ping! > > Here's our current gameplan: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code (It > started as a Marketing Team project, but is now under Development, and in > any case help generating project ideas - or any kind of help at all, in fact > - is very welcomed.) > > --Mel > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From mel at melchua.com Thu Jan 8 15:52:06 2009 From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:52:06 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <49666776.2080103@melchua.com> It is not necessarily the case, and in fact I'd be surprised if it were - SJ's been doing GSoC for OLPC for the past few years afaik, and I don't see any reason for that not to continue this year, but this is 100% speculation. Ccing SJ so he can confirm one way or the other if he has a breather. What I do know is that Sugar Labs *will* be applying for GSoC; the SL projects may be useful/applicable to OLPC, but won't be specifically targeted towards OLPC - rather, the work will be targeted towards Sugar as a learning platform in general. Thanks for bringing this up! I'll make sure to mention that in the note to Leslie (will Cc this list). -Mel Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I don't know anything about GSoC, but to minimize confusion, it seems like > it might be helpful to inform Google that all OLPC GSoC participation will > occur via Sugar Labs (if indeed this is the case). That way the GSoC > people will not be surprised when all OLPC-related applications come > through Sugar Labs, and none come from OLPC. > > - --Ben > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAklmZG0ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ0+ACdEACzTs1voHwnmYp6CDnss+qZ > Et4AniEcp+J22VtDrxOREQ6N8PlnHzh4 > =hHM2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 8 15:50:41 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 21:50:41 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 21:39, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I don't know anything about GSoC, but to minimize confusion, it seems like > it might be helpful to inform Google that all OLPC GSoC participation will > occur via Sugar Labs (if indeed this is the case). That way the GSoC > people will not be surprised when all OLPC-related applications come > through Sugar Labs, and none come from OLPC. We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots based on their well behaviour in past editions. Given that the OLPC and SugarLabs communities have had very different stories, I don't think it would be wise to mix both. Not to mention that GSoC people should be already used to forks and the like. Regards, Tomeu > - --Ben > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAklmZG0ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ0+ACdEACzTs1voHwnmYp6CDnss+qZ > Et4AniEcp+J22VtDrxOREQ6N8PlnHzh4 > =hHM2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From wadetb at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 15:54:37 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:54:37 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots > based on their well behaviour in past editions. To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. Wade From ed at laptop.org Thu Jan 8 17:26:43 2009 From: ed at laptop.org (Ed McNierney) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:26:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of OLPC's previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to presume that OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't know of any active ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would strongly encourage Sugar Labs ideas, however - to Ben's point, there should be no confusion. The only things I could imagine (and it's just imagining) coming from OLPC would be ancillary ideas (school server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from XO/Sugar software. Go for it! - Ed On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso > wrote: >> We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots >> based on their well behaviour in past editions. > > To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their > poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only > received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. > > Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From olpc at spongezone.net Thu Jan 8 17:46:03 2009 From: olpc at spongezone.net (Nirav Patel) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:46:03 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> Message-ID: Students working on Sugar related projects don't have to be restricted to Sugar Labs. Two GSoC 2008 students worked on OLPC projects through other mentoring organizations; one through Python and the other I can't recall. If there aren't enough OLPC specific projects, it would still make sense for OLPC students to work on Sugar projects. Though, judging by the number of quality proposals last year, I don't forsee there being any shortage of project ideas. Nirav On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ed McNierney wrote: > Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? > > Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of > OLPC's previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to > presume that OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't > know of any active ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would > strongly encourage Sugar Labs ideas, however - to Ben's point, there > should be no confusion. The only things I could imagine (and it's > just imagining) coming from OLPC would be ancillary ideas (school > server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from XO/Sugar software. > Go for it! > > - Ed From echerlin at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 18:03:54 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:03:54 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> Message-ID: My proposal for a talk on the Earth Treasury digital textbook project does not appear in the schedule, although it is described below on the same page,http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2/ . Can I get some time for it? We have a dynamite list of partners, as outlined at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Creating_textbooks. I spent several hours yesterday with Doug Engelbart discussing the possibilities for combining his ideas, my ideas, and all of the other ideas that have been or soon will be thrown into the pot. I have to go blog about that now. I have invited representatives of several partner organizations to join us at XOCamp2. Also Greg, sorry to see you lose your job. Will you be able to stay around for XOCamp2? How do we find out who is left at 1CC? On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > I would like to give the following talks at XOCamp2 if there is space in > the schedule for them and others are interested. Please let me know if > you would be interested > > 1. Evolution of a deployment organization. [snip] -- Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai From sj at laptop.org Thu Jan 8 19:10:33 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:10:33 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901081610x7461d256s14458039116ab32c@mail.gmail.com> I'm copying our own gsoc list, and glad to clarify how this should work. I mentioned to Leslie yesterday that I expected SugarLabs and OLPC might have separate GSOC projects this year. Someone representing SL should write and formally get on their list of supported organizations. [note: this requires tax/ID information for SL] OLPC is interested in participating in GSOC this year... some of the projects I imagine would be activities or software for creation that would work particularly with the XO's hardware, or would help needs in OLPC deployments. It would be alright for both SugarLabs and OLPC to have people working on code that could be integrated into Sugar (note the different activity-development and python coding that was done both as an OLPC SoC project and via other orgs who wanted their projects to be useful to OLPC as an audience). It is also possible to submit an application to more than one organization. I recommend noting in our organization descriptions (and definition of what we are looking for) that people who want to develop tools and features for Sugar should apply to SL, and people who want to develop things specifically for OLPC deployments, or other software puzzles specific to XOs, should apply to OLPC. I would encourage most activity developers and activity mentors to tackle SoC projects under sugarlabs... SJ On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ed McNierney wrote: > Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? > > Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of > OLPC's previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to > presume that OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't > know of any active ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would > strongly encourage Sugar Labs ideas, however - to Ben's point, there > should be no confusion. The only things I could imagine (and it's > just imagining) coming from OLPC would be ancillary ideas (school > server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from XO/Sugar software. > Go for it! > > - Ed > > > On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso >> wrote: >>> We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots >>> based on their well behaviour in past editions. >> >> To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their >> poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only >> received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. >> >> Wade >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From cscott at cscott.net Fri Jan 9 01:50:19 2009 From: cscott at cscott.net (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 01:50:19 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Leaving Message-ID: Like many others, Friday will be my last day employed by OLPC. I've enjoyed working on the project a lot, and hope to find some way to continue the work that has been begun. Although I expect that the @laptop.org addresses will continue to work for some time, you should probably use cscott at cscott.net for future correspondence. I've enjoyed working with you all. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) From ypodim at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 02:09:13 2009 From: ypodim at gmail.com (Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 02:09:13 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! Message-ID: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> Want to exchange files between your desktop and your XO laptop? It can't get any easier! In the latest version of Cerebro (currently 3.0.3) you will find simplified file sharing and buddy management. Just click on the buddy you want to send a file to and select a file to send! Screenshots are here: http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Example_GUI If you are a developer, there is detailed tutorial to do file sharing from Python prompt (!) here: http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Buddy_management Enjoy Pol -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/55169725/attachment.htm From echerlin at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 03:07:13 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 00:07:13 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Leaving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:50 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > Like many others, Friday will be my last day employed by OLPC. I've > enjoyed working on the project a lot, and hope to find some way to > continue the work that has been begun. I'm very sorry to hear that. Will you be able to attend XOCamp2? The next release of Sugar appears to be left hanging, with no comment from management. I find this appalling. > Although I expect that the @laptop.org addresses will continue to work > for some time, you should probably use cscott at cscott.net for future > correspondence. I've enjoyed working with you all. > --scott > > -- > ( http://cscott.net/ ) > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 9 03:17:11 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:17:11 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> Message-ID: <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 23:26, Ed McNierney wrote: > Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? No, the point I'm trying to make is that the two organizations are very different in a dimension that is specially important for the issue at hand. OLPC is an organization that has a reputation of being hard to work with for several causes that were certainly out of my own hands. I really hope that SugarLabs will be known as easy to work with and everybody there is making a big personal effort to achieve it. Hope it clarifies, Tomeu > Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of OLPC's > previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to presume that > OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't know of any active > ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would strongly encourage Sugar Labs > ideas, however - to Ben's point, there should be no confusion. The only > things I could imagine (and it's just imagining) coming from OLPC would be > ancillary ideas (school server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from > XO/Sugar software. Go for it! > > - Ed > > > On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>> We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots >>> based on their well behaviour in past editions. >> >> To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their >> poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only >> received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. >> >> Wade >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 9 03:20:30 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:20:30 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Leaving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <242851610901090020w62e52d6ga793e6a9fe3415e1@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 09:07, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:50 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> Like many others, Friday will be my last day employed by OLPC. I've >> enjoyed working on the project a lot, and hope to find some way to >> continue the work that has been begun. > > I'm very sorry to hear that. Will you be able to attend XOCamp2? > > The next release of Sugar appears to be left hanging, with no comment > from management. I find this appalling. Did you really meant Sugar? Or OLPC? The next Sugar release is going onwards fine, thanks. http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap And when in a couple of weeks it gets into Ubuntu packages, I count on you to help us test it (hope you will have better luck this time). Regards, Tomeu >> Although I expect that the @laptop.org addresses will continue to work >> for some time, you should probably use cscott at cscott.net for future >> correspondence. I've enjoyed working with you all. >> --scott >> >> -- >> ( http://cscott.net/ ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> > > > > -- > Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > From wojdyr at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 07:21:31 2009 From: wojdyr at gmail.com (Marcin Wojdyr) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:21:31 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 09:17, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 23:26, Ed McNierney wrote: >> Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? > > No, the point I'm trying to make is that the two organizations are > very different in a dimension that is specially important for the > issue at hand. > > OLPC is an organization that has a reputation of being hard to work > with for several causes that were certainly out of my own hands. OTOH the last year there was a rule that new organizations can get not more than two students in GSOC. Marcin From sayamindu at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 07:25:08 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:55:08 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! In-Reply-To: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos wrote: > Want to exchange files between your desktop and your XO laptop? It can't get > any easier! > > In the latest version of Cerebro (currently 3.0.3) you will find simplified > file sharing and buddy management. Just click on the buddy you want to send > a file to and select a file to send! Screenshots are here: > http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Example_GUI > > If you are a developer, there is detailed tutorial to do file sharing from > Python prompt (!) here: > http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Buddy_management > Wow - this looks cool :) Is this a "blessed dependency" for Sugar 0.84 ? Also, are there any Sugar activities which is already using this ? Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From gregsmitholpc at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 08:46:14 2009 From: gregsmitholpc at gmail.com (Greg Smith) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 08:46:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? and Re: Greg Smith Over and Out Message-ID: <49675526.1020904@laptop.org> Hi Ed et al, SJ is managing the XO Camp now, please follow up with him. I wont make the meeting myself. Thanks all for the kinds words and for your support. I have worked closely with ~300 engineers over the course of my career. I can say without hesitation that this team has some of the best in the business. Once I find a new equilibirum, I'll try to pitch in again as a volunteer. Until then I will be off the list at the end of today so please contact me for OLPC work or anything else at: gregsmithpm at gmail.com Thanks, Greg S **************** From: "Edward Cherlin" Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? To: "Sugar Devel" , "Greg Smith" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My proposal for a talk on the Earth Treasury digital textbook project does not appear in the schedule, although it is described below on the same page,http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2/ . Can I get some time for it? We have a dynamite list of partners, as outlined at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Creating_textbooks. I spent several hours yesterday with Doug Engelbart discussing the possibilities for combining his ideas, my ideas, and all of the other ideas that have been or soon will be thrown into the pot. I have to go blog about that now. I have invited representatives of several partner organizations to join us at XOCamp2. Also Greg, sorry to see you lose your job. Will you be able to stay around for XOCamp2? How do we find out who is left at 1CC? From ed at laptop.org Fri Jan 9 09:10:00 2009 From: ed at laptop.org (Ed McNierney) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:10:00 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] possible additional talks for XOCamp2? In-Reply-To: References: <1231131010.30071.14.camel@hitman> Message-ID: Ed - I'll be working with SJ to make any XOCamp2 schedule updates/ adjustments; new topics are great and we'll fit them in (we obviously need to talk about what the whole concept of a "9.1" release means, of course). Anyone planning on attending or participating is still very welcome, and we'll do our best to make sure we use the time well. All folks who have been laid off also know that they are welcome to participate next week, although I certainly realize that for many of them finding a new job has to be their top priority right now. As far as information on "who is left at 1CC", I'll get that information distributed at the beginning of next week. Due to the mobile nature of our team some folks being laid off didn't have personal conversations with their managers until late yesterday, and some people would prefer to tell their friends and colleagues of the change personally rather than having someone else announce it for them. So I'm going to wait through the weekend so each person affected can have the time to do that before broadcasting things. - Ed On Jan 8, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > My proposal for a talk on the Earth Treasury digital textbook project > does not appear in the schedule, although it is described below on the > same page,http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2/ . Can I get some time > for it? We have a dynamite list of partners, as outlined at > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Creating_textbooks. I spent several hours > yesterday with Doug Engelbart discussing the possibilities for > combining his ideas, my ideas, and all of the other ideas that have > been or soon will be thrown into the pot. I have to go blog about that > now. I have invited representatives of several partner organizations > to join us at XOCamp2. > > Also Greg, sorry to see you lose your job. Will you be able to stay > around for XOCamp2? > > How do we find out who is left at 1CC? > > On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Bryan Berry > wrote: >> I would like to give the following talks at XOCamp2 if there is >> space in >> the schedule for them and others are interested. Please let me know >> if >> you would be interested >> >> 1. Evolution of a deployment organization. > [snip] > -- > Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/ > ????????????? ?) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From pgf at laptop.org Fri Jan 9 10:28:27 2009 From: pgf at laptop.org (pgf at laptop.org) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:28:27 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Leaving In-Reply-To: <242851610901090020w62e52d6ga793e6a9fe3415e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901090020w62e52d6ga793e6a9fe3415e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <11148.1231514907@foxharp.boston.ma.us> tomeu wrote: > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 09:07, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:50 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > >> Like many others, Friday will be my last day employed by OLPC. I've > >> enjoyed working on the project a lot, and hope to find some way to > >> continue the work that has been begun. > > > > I'm very sorry to hear that. Will you be able to attend XOCamp2? > > > > The next release of Sugar appears to be left hanging, with no comment > > from management. I find this appalling. > > Did you really meant Sugar? Or OLPC? the official announcement did a disservice by repeating the conflation of the terms "sugar" and "XO release". they're obviously quite related, but it's really the latter that i suspect edward was referring to. paul =--------------------- paul fox, pgf at laptop.org From jameson.quinn at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 11:22:26 2009 From: jameson.quinn at gmail.com (Jameson Quinn) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:22:26 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > OTOH the last year there was a rule that new organizations can get not > more than two students in GSOC. > > Marcin This is something on which we should get clarification ASAP. To me, it would be logical for OLPC to have around 2 slots and Sugarlabs to get OLPC's (presumably larger) allocation. This is not based on any judgement of the relative importance or capacities of the two organizations, just on the fact that the majority of projects will probably be applicable in the broader sugar context. Jameson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/2183e732/attachment.htm From mel at melchua.com Fri Jan 9 11:31:42 2009 From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:31:42 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> That depends on what OLPC's GSoC focus is - it may *not* be Sugar at all, in which case the organizational intern allocations should be (and they should be, anyway!) independent of each other. Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to have a few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork before emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch my breath then). Is anybody here, aside from SJ, a former GSoC coordinator who can chime in / fill in details / help? I am *completely *swamped for the next 24 hours wrapping up the "becoming a volunteer again" process. --Mel Jameson Quinn wrote: > > > OTOH the last year there was a rule that new organizations can get not > more than two students in GSOC. > > Marcin > > > This is something on which we should get clarification ASAP. To me, it > would be logical for OLPC to have around 2 slots and Sugarlabs to get > OLPC's (presumably larger) allocation. This is not based on any > judgement of the relative importance or capacities of the two > organizations, just on the fact that the majority of projects will > probably be applicable in the broader sugar context. > > Jameson From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 11:41:33 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:41:33 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901090841r1dd53b8dx83beceb33b06c3a9@mail.gmail.com> I would ask around in #gsoc on FreeNode to see if anyone has heard of similar hard limits. According to LH's post to the soc mailing list 2 days ago, GSoC will support a smaller number of organizations this year, so OLPC and SL may be lucky to be accepted. Cheers, Wade On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > That depends on what OLPC's GSoC focus is - it may *not* be Sugar at > all, in which case the organizational intern allocations should be (and > they should be, anyway!) independent of each other. > > Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things > like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to > have a few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork > before emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch > my breath then). > > Is anybody here, aside from SJ, a former GSoC coordinator who can chime > in / fill in details / help? I am *completely *swamped for the next 24 > hours wrapping up the "becoming a volunteer again" process. > > --Mel > > Jameson Quinn wrote: >> >> >> OTOH the last year there was a rule that new organizations can get not >> more than two students in GSOC. >> >> Marcin >> >> >> This is something on which we should get clarification ASAP. To me, it >> would be logical for OLPC to have around 2 slots and Sugarlabs to get >> OLPC's (presumably larger) allocation. This is not based on any >> judgement of the relative importance or capacities of the two >> organizations, just on the fact that the majority of projects will >> probably be applicable in the broader sugar context. >> >> Jameson > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From sayamindu at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 11:53:06 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:23:06 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Mel Chua wrote: > That depends on what OLPC's GSoC focus is - it may *not* be Sugar at > all, in which case the organizational intern allocations should be (and > they should be, anyway!) independent of each other. > > Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things > like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to > have a few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork > before emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch > my breath then). > Last year I signed up as a mentor for OLPC and ended up mentoring for Pootle ;-), but I don't think there's a hard limit. Pootle was in GSoC for the first time ever, and I think we got 3 student slots. Cheers, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From jameson.quinn at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 11:58:56 2009 From: jameson.quinn at gmail.com (Jameson Quinn) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:58:56 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901090841r1dd53b8dx83beceb33b06c3a9@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <7087c32a0901090841r1dd53b8dx83beceb33b06c3a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually she said that not all the same orgs will be returning. Not the same as saying a smaller number of orgs total. I read it as meaning that there are ways to fail out, not that they are being any pickier than last year. On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I would ask around in #gsoc on FreeNode to see if anyone has heard of > similar hard limits. > > According to LH's post to the soc mailing list 2 days ago, GSoC will > support a smaller number of organizations this year, so OLPC and SL > may be lucky to be accepted. > > Cheers, > Wade > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > > That depends on what OLPC's GSoC focus is - it may *not* be Sugar at > > all, in which case the organizational intern allocations should be (and > > they should be, anyway!) independent of each other. > > > > Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things > > like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to > > have a few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork > > before emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch > > my breath then). > > > > Is anybody here, aside from SJ, a former GSoC coordinator who can chime > > in / fill in details / help? I am *completely *swamped for the next 24 > > hours wrapping up the "becoming a volunteer again" process. > > > > --Mel > > > > Jameson Quinn wrote: > >> > >> > >> OTOH the last year there was a rule that new organizations can get > not > >> more than two students in GSOC. > >> > >> Marcin > >> > >> > >> This is something on which we should get clarification ASAP. To me, it > >> would be logical for OLPC to have around 2 slots and Sugarlabs to get > >> OLPC's (presumably larger) allocation. This is not based on any > >> judgement of the relative importance or capacities of the two > >> organizations, just on the fact that the majority of projects will > >> probably be applicable in the broader sugar context. > >> > >> Jameson > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/7139f4d5/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 12:02:58 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:02:58 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <7087c32a0901090841r1dd53b8dx83beceb33b06c3a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901090902n64b753efq5549817b0b5c4b1c@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > Actually she said that not all the same orgs will be returning. Not the same > as saying a smaller number of orgs total. I read it as meaning that there > are ways to fail out, not that they are being any pickier than last year. Did you read the same email? > We've received Executive appal to run Google Summer of Code and the > Google Highly Open Participation Contest once again in 2009. Summer of > Code will be a bit smaller (targeting ~1000 students this year) so we > will likely target fewer organizations (~150). The stipend amounts > ($4500 to the successful student and $500 to the organization) will > remain unchanged. -Wade From jameson.quinn at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 12:19:36 2009 From: jameson.quinn at gmail.com (Jameson Quinn) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:19:36 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugarlabs and GSOC Message-ID: Last year, OLPC handled the sugar educational environment in GSOC. This year, that responsibility could be split. Sugarlabs, a more traditional open-source government org, handles Sugar; and OLPC only in one platform version of that, for Fedora on the XO. It is not clear to me what, if any, interest in GSOC OLPC will have (they are undergoing some serious belt-tightening right now, so it's not the best time to ask). Some of last years' OLPC mentors for GSOC are now associated with Sugarlabs instead. LH, I've been delegated to ask you what implications that has for what range of numbers of slots Sugarlabs might reasonably expect. It is emphatically not our intention to take any slots from OLPC which OLPC can legitimately use, but it is our impression that OLPC might have a lower number of interesting applicants this year due to the much-smaller code base that is still strictly "theirs". There are rumors that GSOC puts "new" organizations at the end of the line for slots, and we hope that some of OLPC's track record might rub off on us. In fact, we dare hope that, as a less heierarchical organization than OLPC, we may actually do a better job than they did with open source community tasks like GSOC. Sincerely, Jameson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/22b73132/attachment.htm From wojdyr at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 12:40:08 2009 From: wojdyr at gmail.com (Marcin Wojdyr) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:40:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> Message-ID: <2bfaacdc0901090940x2b601a17hd29b9b761b973675@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 17:31, Mel Chua wrote: > Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things > like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to have a > few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork before > emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch my breath > then). I can't find it now, but I'm quite sure I didn't just make this up. I registered my organization for GSOC in 2007, and either there was a recommendation to not ask for more than two students, or maybe there was such a rule when Leslie explained how she allocated the slots. Anyway, that's for sure not a hard limit and finally everything is up to GSOC organizers (Leslie). Marcin From bobbypowers at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 21:04:07 2009 From: bobbypowers at gmail.com (Bobby Powers) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:04:07 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! In-Reply-To: <4966F476.7010704@mit.edu> References: <4966F476.7010704@mit.edu> Message-ID: <23e2e54b0901091804k136dc044jd684092b88c5e7d4@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:53 AM, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos wrote: > Want to exchange files between your desktop and your XO laptop? It can't > get any easier! > > In the latest version of Cerebro (currently 3.0.3) you will find > simplified file sharing and buddy management. Just click on the buddy > you want to send a file to and select a file to send! Screenshots are here: > http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Example_GUI > > If you are a developer, there is detailed tutorial to do file sharing > from Python prompt (!) here: > http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Buddy_management > > Enjoy > Pol This sounds great, can't wait to play :) Bobby From ypodim at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 22:18:49 2009 From: ypodim at gmail.com (Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:18:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! In-Reply-To: References: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ebcef410901091918w3aa36105udad7687365ae51b4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > Wow - this looks cool :) > Is this a "blessed dependency" for Sugar 0.84 ? Also, are there any > Sugar activities which is already using this ? > Not that I know of. Cheers, Pol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/92520cb5/attachment.htm From bert at freudenbergs.de Sat Jan 10 08:54:43 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:54:43 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! In-Reply-To: <4ebcef410901091918w3aa36105udad7687365ae51b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> <4ebcef410901091918w3aa36105udad7687365ae51b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10.01.2009, at 04:18, Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta > wrote: >> Wow - this looks cool :) >> Is this a "blessed dependency" for Sugar 0.84 ? Also, are there any >> Sugar activities which is already using this ? > > Not that I know of. > Cheers, > > Pol How could an activity make use of this? Is it integrated with Telepathy - could it be - will it be? It reads like this is a totally different mesh protocol. If it cannot be integrated, could it be run in parallel? - Bert - From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 10 10:51:44 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:51:44 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> Message-ID: <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> Mel Chua wrote: > That depends on what OLPC's GSoC focus is - it may *not* be Sugar at > all, in which case the organizational intern allocations should be (and > they should be, anyway!) independent of each other. > > Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things > like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to > have a few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork > before emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch > my breath then). > > Is anybody here, aside from SJ, a former GSoC coordinator who can chime > in / fill in details / help? I am *completely *swamped for the next 24 > hours wrapping up the "becoming a volunteer again" process. > > --Mel I did mentor Hemant Goyal on sugar speech synthesis. http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=User:Hemant_goyal We did quite ok during the program. I would probably set stricter schedule in terms of wrapping up the status and milestones. But apart from that I was quite heppy what we achieved and I think Hemant was as well, I think. About the slots I can not say much, I only did fill out forms for the assessment. Regards, Simon From ypodim at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:32:48 2009 From: ypodim at gmail.com (Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:32:48 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! In-Reply-To: References: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> <4ebcef410901091918w3aa36105udad7687365ae51b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ebcef410901100832l6bdd595m90b1ab41633eb83@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > How could an activity make use of this? All you have to do is follow the tutorial. In the sample gui there is also an example chat session. > Is it integrated with > Telepathy - could it be - will it be? Not integrated at the moment. Not sure about the future, but I'm afraid I have too much on my plate right now. ;) > It reads like this is a totally > different mesh protocol. Different than what? The XO's mesh network? Yes it is. Cerebro's mesh capabilities are meant to be used with regular wifi devices. > If it cannot be integrated, Cerebro is quite modular; its module that provides presence information could be substituted for information arriving from the XO's firmware, except that the firmware does not provide information on the layout of the network. > could it be run in parallel? Of course. p. > > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090110/5eba4188/attachment-0001.htm From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 10 11:36:00 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:36:00 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Reminder - Sucrose 0.84 Feature Freeze the 15.01.09 Message-ID: <4968CE70.2000309@schampijer.de> Hi all, the Feature, API, String freeze is getting close (15.01.09) [1]. Please land your pending features, check items in the TODO list and verify that all the new strings are exposed and do not contain any typing errors. Wish you some upcoming productive days, Your Release Team [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap#Schedule [2] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/TODO [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_(software_engineering) From wadetb at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 13:46:56 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:46:56 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal Message-ID: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers are planning to do the same. SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those holes remain two years later. And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of activities available for Sugar. We will: 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure activity developers are well supported. 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities are doing in the field. Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate that. Best, Wade From walter.bender at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 13:50:57 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:50:57 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 I'll join. -walter On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. > > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers > are planning to do the same. > > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. > > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those > holes remain two years later. > > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > activities available for Sugar. > > We will: > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > activity developers are well supported. > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > are doing in the field. > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > that. > > Best, > Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From bryan at olenepal.org Sat Jan 10 14:13:48 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:13:48 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name Message-ID: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> I came up w/ an idea that would help us market Sugar to the general public. We need a slogan expresses what Sugar allows kids to do, its purpose, and puts a positive image in the minds of most people. Here is my slogan suggestion: "Sugarland: Where Kids Learn and Play" Adding "Land" expresses that Sugarland, e.g. Sugar, is a whole environment where kids learn, play, express themselves, create, etc. Words like "platform", "engine", "environment" sound like tools for adults and don't indicate that this is a tool for children. I also like "Playground: Where Kids Learn and Play" Playground expresses a safe place for kids to play but doesn't necessarily convey "learning" to a lot of people. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sat Jan 10 14:38:32 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:38:32 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090110193832.GA10793@antilopa-gnu> Where is a place I could enter myself into :) On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 01:46:56PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. > > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers > are planning to do the same. > > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. > > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those > holes remain two years later. > > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > activities available for Sugar. > > We will: > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > activity developers are well supported. > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > are doing in the field. > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > that. > > Best, > Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Aleksey From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 10 15:27:09 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:27:09 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: +1, this is awesome! Marco From dirakx at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 15:57:30 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:57:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Wadeb. I've done a draft wiki page for the activity team http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam Please edit it at your will. cheers. Rafael Ortiz On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > +1, this is awesome! > > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090110/f3b08773/attachment.htm From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sat Jan 10 16:34:15 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:34:15 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090110213415.GA12880@antilopa-gnu> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 01:46:56PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. I suggest using explicit status of activity's maintenance at least active and orphaned - to encourage people to pick up unsupported activities -- Aleksey From wadetb at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 16:42:19 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:42:19 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <20090110213415.GA12880@antilopa-gnu> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <20090110213415.GA12880@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901101342n38738f92ub65e3538752d1b7d@mail.gmail.com> Yep, once activities.sugarlabs.org is up and running (help wanted btw!) we should be able to keep this up to date. I hope to 'feature' orphaned activities from time to time to try to help get them picked up as well. Suggestions for which one to start with are welcome, I was thinking maybe 'Connect' since it was part of the initial Sugar vision. -Wade On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 01:46:56PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> One result should be fewer activities >> "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > I suggest using explicit status of activity's maintenance > at least active and orphaned - to encourage people to pick up unsupported > activities > > -- > Aleksey > From gary at garycmartin.com Sat Jan 10 16:42:31 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:42:31 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <76B5FC18-BC31-4A2F-9D95-6D4EAFD098FD@garycmartin.com> On 10 Jan 2009, at 18:46, Wade Brainerd wrote: > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > activities available for Sugar. > > We will: > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > activity developers are well supported. > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > are doing in the field. > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > that. Yes, count me in! > Best, > Wade From sj at laptop.org Sat Jan 10 18:40:28 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:40:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> On reflection, I think it might be a good thing to make a single really excellent mentoring framework for people through sugarlabs, and not to have two gsoc programs at all. OLPC will have a good bit of mentoring to do to look after travelling interns, which is likely to be a larger program than it was last year. People who write OLPC asking to mentor or intern for software can be directed to that program. And people who have gsoc experience through other groups can help with the setup / to make sure sugarlabs isn't treated like a novice participant. --SJ On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Mel Chua wrote: >> That depends on what OLPC's GSoC focus is - it may *not* be Sugar at >> all, in which case the organizational intern allocations should be (and >> they should be, anyway!) independent of each other. >> >> Marcin, do you recall where you heard/saw that rule? Googling for things >> like "gsoc limit of 2 students" isn't getting me anywhere - I want to >> have a few moments to read through all the docs and historical paperwork >> before emailing Leslie (likely tomorrow, as there will be time to catch >> my breath then). >> >> Is anybody here, aside from SJ, a former GSoC coordinator who can chime >> in / fill in details / help? I am *completely *swamped for the next 24 >> hours wrapping up the "becoming a volunteer again" process. >> >> --Mel > > I did mentor Hemant Goyal on sugar speech synthesis. > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=User:Hemant_goyal We did quite ok > during the program. I would probably set stricter schedule in terms of > wrapping up the status and milestones. But apart from that I was quite > heppy what we achieved and I think Hemant was as well, I think. > > About the slots I can not say much, I only did fill out forms for the > assessment. > > Regards, > Simon From echerlin at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 20:48:34 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:48:34 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Education on the XO In-Reply-To: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> References: <495F5AB6.2060806@usa.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > Bryan has started a very interesting discussion about what is needed for > the XO to support education. I would like to add my two cents worth. > > We are learning (gaining new experience) every day that we are alive. > The traditional difference in education is that it is organized > learning. Teaching a topic means to provide an organized tour of an area > of knowledge covering what every student should know or be aware of. > > The XO's primary tool for education, as opposed to learning experiences, > is Moodle. The problem is that Moodle for the XO is a tool which is > ready and waiting to be used (all dressed up and no where to go). > > My vision is that there is a repository (website) which contains free > (CC or similar) courses covering the core curriculum for K-8. The > website needs to be supported by a community of developers (course > creators) and moderators (folks who volunteer to assist teachers and > students who are participating). This repository should also contain > 'elective' courses following the model of Oregon's Saturday Academy > (http://www.saturdayacademy.org/). Earth Treasury is working on that plan with a number of other partners. We welcome others to participate. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Creating_textbooks > The primary problem with Moodle at the moment is that there are is not a > body of grade school courses available to illustrate how to build them > or to provoke the community to 'make it better'. Exactly. > Tony -- Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sun Jan 11 03:52:46 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:52:46 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101342n38738f92ub65e3538752d1b7d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <20090110213415.GA12880@antilopa-gnu> <7087c32a0901101342n38738f92ub65e3538752d1b7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090111085246.GA14040@antilopa-gnu> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 04:42:19PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Yep, once activities.sugarlabs.org is up and running (help wanted > btw!) we should be able to keep this up to date. I hope to 'feature' > orphaned activities from time to time to try to help get them picked > up as well. > > Suggestions for which one to start with are welcome, I was thinking > maybe 'Connect' since it was part of the initial Sugar vision. Does anybody know maintenance status of mamamedia/{cartoon-builder,flipsticks}? Last commits were 14months ago. There are lack of COPYING files. -- Aleksey From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 11 04:32:28 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:32:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901110132p3eb51811p6c369b1163397ca3@mail.gmail.com> I believe this will make a very big difference in the future of Sugar. Good luck and have fun, Tomeu On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 19:46, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. > > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers > are planning to do the same. > > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. > > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those > holes remain two years later. > > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > activities available for Sugar. > > We will: > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > activity developers are well supported. > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > are doing in the field. > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > that. > > Best, > Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 11 04:34:50 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:34:50 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 20:13, Bryan Berry wrote: > I came up w/ an idea that would help us market Sugar to the general > public. We need a slogan expresses what Sugar allows kids to do, its > purpose, and puts a positive image in the minds of most people. > > Here is my slogan suggestion: > > "Sugarland: Where Kids Learn and Play" > > Adding "Land" expresses that Sugarland, e.g. Sugar, is a whole > environment where kids learn, play, express themselves, create, etc. > Words like "platform", "engine", "environment" sound like tools for > adults and don't indicate that this is a tool for children. > > I also like "Playground: Where Kids Learn and Play" Playground expresses > a safe place for kids to play but doesn't necessarily convey "learning" > to a lot of people. What about "Sugar: a playground where kids learn and play"? Regards, Tomeu From arjun at laptop.org Sun Jan 11 05:09:32 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:39:32 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <242851610901110132p3eb51811p6c369b1163397ca3@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110132p3eb51811p6c369b1163397ca3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 I am in too. Arjun On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > I believe this will make a very big difference in the future of Sugar. > > Good luck and have fun, > > Tomeu > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 19:46, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. > > > > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity > > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers > > are planning to do the same. > > > > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, > > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are > > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. > > > > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of > > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. > > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there > > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those > > holes remain two years later. > > > > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > > activities available for Sugar. > > > > We will: > > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > > activity developers are well supported. > > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > > are doing in the field. > > > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > > that. > > > > Best, > > Wade > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Arjun Sarwal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/0e501794/attachment.htm From ypodim at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 05:36:03 2009 From: ypodim at gmail.com (Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:36:03 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ebcef410901110236v4ba4dc0ao47e11184a0842dbd@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > What about "Sugar: a playground where kids learn and play"? > you mention play twice and doesn't sound nice :p -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/3eb34ba1/attachment.htm From arjun at laptop.org Sun Jan 11 06:09:13 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:39:13 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Anatomy Educational Activity Message-ID: Hi Arjun! I do remember you.How are you ? I don't know if there are any ongoing efforts on an Activity around human Anatomy, but you could start by making a wiki page in which you could generally outline your initial thoughts and ideas on the Activity - how it would like like, what content areas you hope to cover etc. There is also an SugarLabs (sugarlabs.org) Activity Team being developed, so they would be able to give some guiding inputs too! Hope the above information helps to get started. Let me know your thoughts. cheers Arjun On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Arjun Nayini wrote: > Long time no talk! > I dont know if you remember me but I am a student at IMSA and I'm > interested in OLPC Health. Currently I'm at the Boston Headquarters working > on a deployment initiative to a local school (6th grade class). Their > curriculum requires a study of anatomy so I am very interested in > contributing to an Anatomy educational activity. Do you have any ideas or > have you heard of anyone willing to continue work on the Anatomy activity? > > Thank you so much and I hope to hear from you soon > > ----Arjun > -- Arjun Sarwal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/2cb028f1/attachment-0001.htm From decfiv at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 06:44:01 2009 From: decfiv at yahoo.com (master puppetz) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:44:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Sugar-devel] Help me developing for Sugar Message-ID: <175126.41891.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi, ? My name is Lazim and I'm a student from Malaysia. I am?new in open source especially in Sugar development. Regard to my proposal at projectdb, I'd like to develop an e-mail client called SugarMail. ? I'm not sure whether SugarMail is possible to be developed or not, but my proposal is to make SugarMail to be an e-mail client that don't required mail server for sending e-mail among XO users. It sound ridiculous, but it's not imposible. ? The problem is I don't have enough knowledge about developing a software for Sugar and currently I still don't receive my requested XO laptop for me to figure out. I've run the Sugar through emulation under the qemu but my laptop condition not very good at running 2 operating system simultaneously. ? I would like to ask for anyone that would help me be my mentor on developing this SugarMail. I also appreciate if anybody have any suggestion on how to develop the SugarMail under Windows environment as I'm using Windows XP on my laptop right now. ? Lazim, ? SugarMail, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/SugarMail OLPC Malaysia, http://olpcmalaysia.blogspot.com Lazim, http://www.mohdlazim.com ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/d34a2c75/attachment.htm From arjun at laptop.org Sun Jan 11 06:48:22 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:18:22 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] FYI, the new TA (with sensors) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is great - I had a lot of fun playing around with this! And the colors are cool too! A minor thing - the pitch one doesn't seem to be working... I will try and look into this to figure out why. Also, I think that your idea of initializing the sound device once only in the beginning might fix the bug of n-1 th sensor value being reported at the nth query. regards Arjun On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > I have more work to do on this (in regard to the initialization code > we discussed), but this version is the integrated version. (I need to > fix the sensorsgroup.svg too...) Hope you like the colors I chose. > > -walter > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Arjun Sarwal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/60d2dec3/attachment.htm From arjun at laptop.org Sun Jan 11 07:55:07 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:25:07 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [sugar] Measure Activity inclusion in Fructose In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I revisited this discussion with Simon on IRC some time back. There are 2 things before this Activity would be considered prime for inclusion 1) Making the Alsamixer code independent of the special Alsamixer controls in the XO. i.e ACtivity should atleast start up and perform the sound functions when there is no sensor or it is not running on an XO 2) Developing an alternate sensor connecting mechanism (perhaps USB based) for non - XOs Joel has a sensor board that could probably be useful. Arjun On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > +1 about inclusion from me, based on Walter and Rafael explanations. Thanks! > > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Sugar mailing list > Sugar at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > -- Arjun Sarwal From walter.bender at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 08:04:12 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:04:12 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [sugar] Measure Activity inclusion in Fructose In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > I revisited this discussion with Simon on IRC some time back. > > There are 2 things before this Activity would be considered prime for inclusion > > 1) Making the Alsamixer code independent of the special Alsamixer > controls in the XO. i.e ACtivity should atleast start up and perform > the sound functions when there is no sensor or it is not running on an > XO This is easy enough--just catch the exception when trying to access those alsamixer controls. > 2) Developing an alternate sensor connecting mechanism (perhaps USB > based) for non - XOs Joel has a sensor board that could probably be > useful. > Wouldn't this just introduce a dependency on a different piece of hardware? I wonder if there isn't some more general way of abstracting the problem. A data pipe that can be configured some how. (We had talked at one point about capturing any sensor data available--e.g., the signal from the radio on the wifi card or the keyboard or any available USB or serial port, et al. -walter > Arjun > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti > wrote: >> +1 about inclusion from me, based on Walter and Rafael explanations. Thanks! >> >> Marco >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar mailing list >> Sugar at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar >> > > > > -- > Arjun Sarwal > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sun Jan 11 08:07:41 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:07:41 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild Message-ID: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Hi! calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's the right place to report it? CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/8e2e23c3/attachment.pgp From bert at freudenbergs.de Sun Jan 11 08:10:50 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:10:50 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [sugar] Measure Activity inclusion in Fructose In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63860640-966F-4BF6-9223-B00EEE930728@freudenbergs.de> On 11.01.2009, at 13:55, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > 2) Developing an alternate sensor connecting mechanism (perhaps USB > based) for non - XOs Joel has a sensor board that could probably be > useful. Not to forget the Scratchboard, err, PicoBoard: http://www.picocricket.com/picoboard.html Wonder if there would exist a common "driver layer" for these kinds of sensors? Some standard that could be used from apps to access data and meta data about connected sensors, so one would only have to write one sensor driver to fit all kinds of apps? - Bert - From arjun at laptop.org Sun Jan 11 08:15:04 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:45:04 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! In-Reply-To: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ebcef410901082309q582c6360g3e1becbacf1a330f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: (sugar changed to sugar-devel) 2009/1/9 Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos : > Want to exchange files between your desktop and your XO laptop? It can't get > any easier! > > In the latest version of Cerebro (currently 3.0.3) you will find simplified > file sharing and buddy management. Just click on the buddy you want to send > a file to and select a file to send! Screenshots are here: > http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Example_GUI > > If you are a developer, there is detailed tutorial to do file sharing from > Python prompt (!) here: > http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Buddy_management > > Enjoy > Pol > This is really fantastic! :-) Has anybody gotten the GUI to run...I get an error when I try to run the GUI. Anybody who has tried the GUI, please share your steps and results. thanks! Arjun > > -- > Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos > Graduate student > Viral Communications > MIT Media Lab > Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 > http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > -- Arjun Sarwal From ian.m.macarthur at talktalk.net Sun Jan 11 10:11:59 2009 From: ian.m.macarthur at talktalk.net (imm) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:11:59 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11 Jan 2009, at 9:34, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 20:13, Bryan Berry wrote: >> I came up w/ an idea that would help us market Sugar to the general >> public. We need a slogan expresses what Sugar allows kids to do, its >> purpose, and puts a positive image in the minds of most people. > What about "Sugar: a playground where kids learn and play"? [My opinions carry no weight, please feel free to ignore my following ramblings.] Bryan suggests that Sugar could benefit from a slogan to sum up its role for a general audience. This seems, to me, to be a very good idea. His initial suggestions are:- "Sugarland: Where Kids Learn and Play" and "Playground: Where Kids Learn and Play" Then, Tomeu responded with:- "Sugar: a playground where kids learn and play" Which I think has the merit of emphasising "Sugar", rather than possibly confusing people by introducing new terms "Sugarland" and (not obviously related) "Playground". However, Pol comments that the repetition of the word "play" in this phrase sounds clumsy, which I guess is a Bad Thing for a slogan... For my part, I am uneasy about the use of the word "kids", as it seems to be of variable meaning... In particular, I recall working with a group of, well, "kids", who actively disliked any "adult" use of the word "kids" and viewed it is patronising and negative. Different groups of adults seems to have similarly variant meanings attached to the word. What it means depends on who says it, and to whom. Tricky. I would rather not use it. So, I'd suggest:- "Sugar: A Place to Learn and Play" or perhaps "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" I like the second form better. I think that ending on "learn" seems (to me, at least) to emphasise that aspect of its function. The first form seems to flow better though. Maybe that's just me. -- imm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 11 10:28:54 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:28:54 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 16:11, imm wrote: > > "Sugar: A Place to Learn and Play" or perhaps "Sugar: A Place to Play > and Learn" > > I like the second form better. I think that ending on "learn" seems > (to me, at least) to emphasise that aspect of its function. The first > form seems to flow better though. Maybe that's just me. Agreed, I also like the second one more. Regards, Tomeu From solutiongrove at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 10:29:59 2009 From: solutiongrove at gmail.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:29:59 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Anatomy Educational Activity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For content you might try searching the NSDL (National Science Digital Library) and PBS Teachers Domain. Anyone else have suggestions on where to find open content on anatomy? If you find good stuff lets think together about the best way to adapt them to Sugar and your location. It will be an excellent case study. Caroline On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > Hi Arjun! > > I do remember you.How are you ? > > I don't know if there are any ongoing efforts on an Activity around human > Anatomy, but you could start by making a wiki page in which you could > generally outline your initial thoughts and ideas on the Activity - how it > would like like, what content areas you hope to cover etc. > > There is also an SugarLabs (sugarlabs.org) Activity Team being developed, > so they would be able to give some guiding inputs too! > > Hope the above information helps to get started. Let me know your thoughts. > > cheers > Arjun > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Arjun Nayini wrote: > >> Long time no talk! >> I dont know if you remember me but I am a student at IMSA and I'm >> interested in OLPC Health. Currently I'm at the Boston Headquarters working >> on a deployment initiative to a local school (6th grade class). Their >> curriculum requires a study of anatomy so I am very interested in >> contributing to an Anatomy educational activity. Do you have any ideas or >> have you heard of anyone willing to continue work on the Anatomy activity? >> >> Thank you so much and I hope to hear from you soon >> >> ----Arjun >> > > > > -- > Arjun Sarwal > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/95134999/attachment.htm From olpc at spongezone.net Sun Jan 11 10:33:29 2009 From: olpc at spongezone.net (Nirav Patel) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:33:29 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110132p3eb51811p6c369b1163397ca3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Count me in as well. This is a wonderful idea and could very well be what is necessary to make the wish list of Activities proposals real. Nirav On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > +1 > I am in too. > > Arjun > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> I believe this will make a very big difference in the future of Sugar. >> >> Good luck and have fun, >> >> Tomeu >> >> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 19:46, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. >> > >> > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity >> > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers >> > are planning to do the same. >> > >> > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, >> > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are >> > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. >> > >> > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of >> > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. >> > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there >> > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those >> > holes remain two years later. >> > >> > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. >> > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have >> > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of >> > activities available for Sugar. >> > >> > We will: >> > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. >> > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. >> > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature >> > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. >> > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure >> > activity developers are well supported. >> > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities >> > are doing in the field. >> > >> > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. >> > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development >> > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem >> > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities >> > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. >> > >> > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the >> > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate >> > that. >> > >> > Best, >> > Wade >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > -- > Arjun Sarwal > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 11 10:41:14 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:41:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231688474.7263.17.camel@hitman> On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 15:11 +0000, imm wrote: > On 11 Jan 2009, at 9:34, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 20:13, Bryan Berry wrote: > >> I came up w/ an idea that would help us market Sugar to the general > >> public. We need a slogan expresses what Sugar allows kids to do, its > >> purpose, and puts a positive image in the minds of most people. > > > What about "Sugar: a playground where kids learn and play"? > > [My opinions carry no weight, please feel free to ignore my following > ramblings.] > > Bryan suggests that Sugar could benefit from a slogan to sum up its > role for a general audience. This seems, to me, to be a very good > idea. His initial suggestions are:- > > "Sugarland: Where Kids Learn and Play" and "Playground: Where Kids > Learn and Play" > > Then, Tomeu responded with:- > > "Sugar: a playground where kids learn and play" > > Which I think has the merit of emphasising "Sugar", rather than > possibly confusing people by introducing new terms "Sugarland" and > (not obviously related) "Playground". Sugar is still unknown to the vast majority of people in the US or anywhere else. They won't be confused by the name change. Our relatively small but dedicated band of enthusiasts could handle the name change w/ ease. > However, Pol comments that the repetition of the word "play" in this > phrase sounds clumsy, which I guess is a Bad Thing for a slogan... > > For my part, I am uneasy about the use of the word "kids", as it > seems to be of variable meaning... > In particular, I recall working with a group of, well, "kids", who > actively disliked any "adult" use of the word "kids" and viewed it is > patronising and negative. Different groups of adults seems to have > similarly variant meanings attached to the word. What it means > depends on who says it, and to whom. Tricky. I would rather not use it. I see your perspective but the word "kid" has different connotations for me. I often think that adults - referring to chronologically mature human beings - take themselves too seriously and are less inquisitive than kids. I see the reference to "kids" as a positive one and not patronizing. I think "kids" in its general use is more effective than "Where people learn and play" or "Where chronologically young people learn and play" > So, I'd suggest:- > > "Sugar: A Place to Learn and Play" or perhaps "Sugar: A Place to Play > and Learn" > > I like the second form better. I think that ending on "learn" seems > (to me, at least) to emphasise that aspect of its function. The first > form seems to flow better though. Maybe that's just me. I like having "Learn" before "Play" because a lot of people unfortunately feel "Play" is a frivolous concept. We know better as our concept of "learning" in SugarLand involves a whole lot of play :) -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 11 10:43:09 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the "Pla" sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to repeat it often and consistently On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 16:28 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 16:11, imm wrote: > > > > "Sugar: A Place to Learn and Play" or perhaps "Sugar: A Place to Play > > and Learn" > > > > I like the second form better. I think that ending on "learn" seems > > (to me, at least) to emphasise that aspect of its function. The first > > form seems to flow better though. Maybe that's just me. > > Agreed, I also like the second one more. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 11 10:49:43 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:49:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] schedule for XO Camp2 -- pls add moodle presentation Message-ID: <1231688983.7263.27.camel@hitman> Tony, you really, really should give a presentation on moodle at XO Camp here is the wiki page w/ the schedule. I recommend u fit it in somewhere http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2 -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 11 10:58:42 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:58:42 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] regrouping today - avoiding all the fun at fudcon Message-ID: <1231689522.7263.32.camel@hitman> Hey guys, I have had a ton of fun at fudcon. I have fallen way behind on a bunch of stuff I have to do my for my team back in Nepal. I am going to try to focus on that stuff today. Pls call me at 562-318-9018 if you need me for anything -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 11 11:14:52 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:14:52 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Testing summary - 10 January 2009 In-Reply-To: References: <72d5c8fd0901091646q69b4e6d7mc9c61b023555c321@mail.gmail.com> <72d5c8fd0901091647pe36695fqac232e87c37ce4df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901110814g370eafb4o629c79493863080f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 06:31, Mohit Taneja wrote: >> Food Force II >> >> Tested on 5 XOS, concept awesome and appropriate for developing countries >> (keep working on it please), takes a long time to load - uses a lot of >> processing power so runs real slow, shares in neighbourbood view but does >> not collaborate. Usability - ignoring slowness, the edges of the screen are >> designed to move the user view of the village but the selection buttons at >> the bottom of the screen are within the scroll trigger zone so when trying >> to select it is scrolling. Would be good if there was a "where you are now" >> indicator on the map (for when you have scrolled away from the village). >> Query - would speed increase if run from school server rather than local? We >> are extremely excited about this activity and look forward to seeing this >> improve. > > Hi, > I would firstly like to thank you guys for your comments. > Well definitely, I accept that moving the screen by making the mouse go > towards the edges is a problem, one reaason being that the control buttons > are within their range also in some cases it leads to the frame being showed > when one takes the mouse pointer to a particular edge. We would work on > making the requisite changes. > Also, it would be great to show the exact location of the player on the mini > map (right hand side - middle ). > And surely working on efficiency is always a priority. If the SugarLabs's activity team would like to schedule an irc session about performance, I'd be glad to share the tricks I have learnt during the last two years. Regards, Tomeu > Regards, > Mohit Taneja > Developer > Food Force II > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Tabitha Roder > wrote: >> >> Hello >> >> Thanks to Ian Thomson for coming along and talking to everyone about >> Oceania deployments. There were lots of fantastic talks today with a diverse >> group of people present. We are hoping to hear some kiwi's could be >> volunteering in the Pacific Islands over the next few months - fingers >> crossed funds can be found. >> >> Who came: Carl, Ian, Edward, Murray, Brenda, Callum, Uli, Jonathan, Kaleb, >> Joshhua, Aida, Tabitha, Aaron, Douglas, Queenie >> >> Food Force II >> Tested on 5 XOS, concept awesome and appropriate for developing countries >> (keep working on it please), takes a long time to load - uses a lot of >> processing power so runs real slow, shares in neighbourbood view but does >> not collaborate. Usability - ignoring slowness, the edges of the screen are >> designed to move the user view of the village but the selection buttons at >> the bottom of the screen are within the scroll trigger zone so when trying >> to select it is scrolling. Would be good if there was a "where you are now" >> indicator on the map (for when you have scrolled away from the village). >> Query - would speed increase if run from school server rather than local? We >> are extremely excited about this activity and look forward to seeing this >> improve. >> >> Chat >> Today we had bonjour chat on Ubuntu (pidgin on 8.10 and 8.4) talking to >> the XOs without issue. Intiating a chat from Ubuntu to the XOs would pop up >> a chat icon, which clicking on would start a Chat application. However, a OS >> X macbook with (using ichat bonjour) could see the XO's, but would return >> the error message "Instant Message connection failed. The other person's >> computer may not be reachable." Also, there is no way for an XO to initiate >> a chat, or see non-XO computers using the bonjour chat protocol. >> >> Plans for next couple of weeks - >> Next Saturday 17 January - learn how to pull apart your XO and put it back >> together (thanks Callum, our resident expert in XO repairs) - at The Cross >> Tuesday 27 January - meet Walter Bender, SugarLabs founder - further >> details to come but can say it will be at Catalyst offices in Willis Street >> One day soon - update from Andrew McMillan on OLPC presentations at Linux >> Conference (February?) >> One day soon - Martin Langhoff update on School server and python for >> sugar programming sessions (February?) >> >> Feel free to invite others. >> >> To keep up to date with what the New Zealand OLPC volunteers are doing, >> subscribe to olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org by going to >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz >> >> Have a fantastic week! >> >> Kind regards >> Tabitha Roder >> >> (64)21482229 >> >> Support OLPC G1G1 - laptop.org/xo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Testing mailing list >> Testing at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/testing >> > > > > -- > > Richard Dawkins - "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so > open-minded that our brains drop out." > _______________________________________________ > Testing mailing list > Testing at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/testing > > From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 11 11:31:53 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:31:53 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] does this run in Browse? We really need it to Message-ID: <1231691513.7263.45.camel@hitman> Ck12.org has put together an awesome "flexbook" application that lets you read open-source textbooks online or download them as pdfs. They have done it entirely w/ javascript as far as I can tell. I haven't had the chance to test it on my xo yet -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From ian.m.macarthur at talktalk.net Sun Jan 11 11:51:29 2009 From: ian.m.macarthur at talktalk.net (imm) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:51:29 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <1231688474.7263.17.camel@hitman> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <1231688474.7263.17.camel@hitman> Message-ID: On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:41, Bryan Berry wrote: > Sugar is still unknown to the vast majority of people in the US or > anywhere else. They won't be confused by the name change. Our > relatively > small but dedicated band of enthusiasts could handle the name > change w/ > ease. Absolutely. My take on this, though, was that the "obscurity" of the Sugar name was why we had to emphasise it directly in the slogan. > I see your perspective but the word "kid" has different > connotations for > me. I often think that adults - referring to chronologically mature > human beings - take themselves too seriously and are less inquisitive > than kids. Indeed so, you are quite right. (Slight tangent) I recall seeing some work that separated out the concept "adult" from the concept "grown-up" on broadly that basis - i.e. that "grown-ups" were chronologically older (but not necessarily wiser or more mature) where "adults" were older and (hopefully) wiser. Part of the separation was based around retaining some aspects of childhood inquisitiveness... > I see the reference to "kids" as a positive one and not > patronizing. Yes, so do I, but my worry is how we project that meaning to an "outside" group who will inevitably bring their own meanings to the phrase. > I think "kids" in its general use is more effective than "Where people > learn and play" or "Where chronologically young people learn and play" (Another tangent) Is age an issue? From time to time I have worked with groups of "adults" (in the chronological sense) that have varying degrees of learning difficulties. I am certain these groups would benefit from the educational and music creation tools that Sugar brings, but they are not kids, in the eyes of education authorities, or in their own self-images. Where do they fit in? > >> So, I'd suggest:- >> >> "Sugar: A Place to Learn and Play" or perhaps "Sugar: A Place to Play >> and Learn" >> >> I like the second form better. I think that ending on "learn" seems >> (to me, at least) to emphasise that aspect of its function. The first >> form seems to flow better though. Maybe that's just me. > > I like having "Learn" before "Play" because a lot of people > unfortunately feel "Play" is a frivolous concept. We know better as > our > concept of "learning" in SugarLand involves a whole lot of play :) Yes - I could not decide how best to order these two concepts in the phrase. It is tricky. I decided that, for me and this s only one opinion, Play before Learn was stronger because the phrase then ended on the concept Learn, so I *hoped* that someone glancing at it quickly would be left with that concept "Learn" in mind. I also liked the idea that you would start with Play and "incidentally" (or "accidentally") end up at Learn... It seemed to me that reflected the mission in a way. -- imm From billkerr at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 11:51:58 2009 From: billkerr at gmail.com (Bill Kerr) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:21:58 +1030 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Hilaire Fernandes learning system In-Reply-To: References: <5d2dce520812231500j14e0e536qa27d951066e3bd7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d2dce520901110851p702af761tc9e63f14719b4c8e@mail.gmail.com> thanks for improving the translation, Edward Hilaires sent me a link to a (very interesting) pdf in english (on the squeak list) which explains the concepts more: https://gforge.inria.fr/docman/view.php/1308/5741/istoa-exercises.pdf this ties in with some of the other recent threads about developing quality activities On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Bill Kerr wrote: > > from walter's sugar digest: > > 6. Hilaire Fernandes, who brought us DrGeo, has > href="http://www.istoa.net">a new project underway: > > Thank you. This is excellent. > > > :I am working on a learning system written in Smalltalk. The contents > > is only in French for now, and only cover multiplication learning, but > > I am planing for more in various subjects. Underneath the curriculum > > is in a graph to help situating the learning progression of the > > learner. > > > > > > I've done an english translation of the main page using google translate > - > > I'm not certain but it could be Hilaire's intention to eventually develop > a > > computer mentoring system - identified by alan kay as the main thing > missing > > from his dynabook vision (40th anniversary presentation) > > > > if anyone improves the translation please send me a copy > > Below. > > > activit? (?tayage) = activity (shoring) ??? > > Pedagogical support seems to mean lesson plans. > > > ABOUT > > > > > > > > iSTOA.net is a research project to build a platform for interactive > teaching > > and monitoring the Internet. It is free and cross-licensed MIT. > > iSTOA.net is a research project to build a platform for interactive > teaching and for following it on the Internet. It is multi-platform, > and under a Free MIT license. > > > Some aspects of iStoa.net: > > Some particular points about iStoa.net: > > > * Interactive exercises for students is important (see this article on > the > > artifacts). > > * Interactive exercises for students are important (see this article > on the exercises so far constructed) > \ > > * Modeling of the field of learning > > Modeling of the subject matter to be learned > > > * The construction of a knowledge model of learning as part of its > > activities with the software > > * Construction of a model of the learner's understanding as he or she > works with the software > > > * A remediation when the student is in trouble > > * A help system for when the student is having trouble > > > We are building a community around this project, to help us build it, > join > > us! You can also reach OFSET (Organization for Free Software in Education > > and Teaching), which supports the project on its list of discussion. > > We are building a community around this project; to help us build it, join > us! > http://istoa.gforge.inria.fr/forge.php > > You can also join OFSET (Organization for Free Software in Education > and Teaching), > http://www.ofset.org/ > > which supports the project on its mailing list. > http://lists.ofset.org/subscribe/ofset > > MISSING > > Functional environment > iSTOA is multiplatform : GNU/Linux, Mac OS X and Windows. > > Development environment > The Pharo environment for Smalltalk development. > > > NEW IN VERSION 8.12-ALPHA1 > > > > > > > > Intermediate version. Includes editor notional network, database, web > > console, the student, the application of test exercises: > > Intermediate version. Includes an editor for virtual networks(?), > database, student software, test and exercise software. > > > * Resolution bug # 6936, # 6937, # 6973, # 6939 List of bugs > > * Version based Pharo # 10192: font rendering plugin with FreeType, > > verifications and modifications Pharo for compatibility with the latest > > stable version 41.1 of Magma. > > * Refactoring code. Correction on some exercises. > > ok > > > The console's web master and the students with recording traces are > present. > > The master Web console and student application with the ability to > create records are provided. > > > However, some simple operations are necessary to activate them. If you > want > > to test, ask on the mailing list. > > ok > > > Since its interactive teaching file, ISTO provides access to a set of > > scaffolding materials. Each shoring is an activity that addresses one or > > more educational themes and includes a series of exercises. The shoring > are > > classified according to the classification of items of educational > > curricula. It includes more than 40 educational shoring with more than > 160 > > years. > > In addition to the interactive education application file, iSTOA > provides access to a collection of lesson plans. Each plan consists of > an activity that addresses one or more educational themes, and > includes a series of exercises. The plans are classified according to > the names of subjects in the curriculum. The collection includes more > than 40 plans containing more than 160 exercises. > > > PROJECT DESCRIPTION > > ok > > > The platform is aimed at teaching math and French cycle 3 of primary > school. > > Its use is multiple use in the classroom, use at home or remediation > > monitoring with deferred by the teacher. > > The platform is aimed at teaching arithmetic and French in third > grade. It has multiple uses: in the classroom, at home, and in > remedial instruction, with appropriate follow-up by the instructor. > > > Each act of the learner is stored in a database, in a local network or > the > > Internet. Of course, use offline mode is possible, there is no case in > this > > recording traces > > Each step taken by the student can be stored in a database, locally or > on the Internet. Naturally, offline use is possible, but without the > possibility of recording progress. > > > Features > > ISTO is divided into four main parts: > > ok > > > 1. A modeling tool in the field of learning. > > A modeling tool for the field of study. > > > 2. A corpus of interactive and dynamic. > > A body of interactive, dynamic exercises. > > > 3. A system for recording acts of learning. > > A system for recording steps in learning. > > > 4. A Web console of the teacher to see the traces of learners. > > A teacher's console for examining student records. > > > These revolve around large parts of modeling the domain of learning. The > > exercises are the learner according to a part of this model, and partly > of > > his learning. > > These parts of the system are organized around the model of the field > of study. Exercises are presented to the learner partly in accordance > with this model, and partly in accordance with his progress in > learning. > > > The exercises of the body are modular and configurable objects. They are > > grouped by activity (shoring). The chart below shows in detail some of > these > > relationships: > > The exercises in this suite are parametrized, modular objects. They > are grouped into activities (lesson plans). The chart below shows in > detail some of these relationships: > > > DIAGRAM > > > > Domain de reference: programmes scolaires = Domain of reference: > curricula > > > > Graphe de competences = Graph of competences > > Connections of capabilities > > > Graphe d'etayage = Graphe shoring > > Connections of lessons > > > Apprenant = Learner > > > > Modele de connaissance = Model knowledge > > Model of understanding > > > decrit = described > > > > Fait evoluer = Changed > > > > modelise = modeled > > > > Corpus d'exercices = Corpus exercises > > Suite of exercises > > > pilote = pilot > > > > Traitement erreur = Treatment error > > Processing error (?) > > > Domaine de reference: savoir-faire pedagogique = Area of reference: > > educational know-how > > > > > > > > The project > > > > The outline of the model are in place. The body of exercises is to > increase, > > for a school it takes several hundreds of interactive exercises. But for > > them, we develop artifacts that are reusable components from one year to > > another, this reduces the development time necessary. > > The outline of the functional model is in place. The suite of > exercises has to be expanded, because several hundred interactive > exercises are needed for each grade. However, in order to create them, > we are building software as reusable components that can be recombined > into new lessons for each grade, reducing the needed development time. > > > To learn more about the project, visit the state of the project. If you > wish > > to participate in the project, also visit the PARTICIPATE IN ISTO. > > To learn more about the progress of the project, visit the Web page > STATE OF THE PROJECT. > > http://istoa.gforge.inria.fr/roadmap.fr.php > > If you would like to participate, similarly visit the page PARTICIPATE IN > iSTOA. > > http://istoa.gforge.inria.fr/help.fr.php > > -- > Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name > And Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090112/8bdb6621/attachment-0001.htm From ian.m.macarthur at talktalk.net Sun Jan 11 11:54:43 2009 From: ian.m.macarthur at talktalk.net (imm) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:54:43 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: > "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" > > I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the > "Pla" > sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to > repeat it > often and consistently Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of the second form. -- imm From dirakx at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 11:55:22 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:55:22 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Help me developing for Sugar In-Reply-To: <175126.41891.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <175126.41891.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello My suggestion is that you try working with Ubuntu and install the sugar packages, they are pretty decent for developing.. Also you can check the new Activity team at sugar labs for resources. http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam Hope this helps. Rafael Ortiz On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 6:44 AM, master puppetz wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Lazim and I'm a student from Malaysia. I am new in open source > especially in Sugar development. Regard to my proposal at projectdb, I'd > like to develop an e-mail client called SugarMail. > > I'm not sure whether SugarMail is possible to be developed or not, but my > proposal is to make SugarMail to be an e-mail client that don't required > mail server for sending e-mail among XO users. It sound ridiculous, but it's > not imposible. > > The problem is I don't have enough knowledge about developing a software > for Sugar and currently I still don't receive my requested XO laptop for me > to figure out. I've run the Sugar through emulation under the qemu but my > laptop condition not very good at running 2 operating system simultaneously. > > I would like to ask for anyone that would help me be my mentor on > developing this SugarMail. I also appreciate if anybody have any suggestion > on how to develop the SugarMail under Windows environment as I'm using > Windows XP on my laptop right now. > > Lazim, > > SugarMail, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/SugarMail > OLPC Malaysia, http://olpcmalaysia.blogspot.com > Lazim, http://www.mohdlazim.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/605e286d/attachment.htm From walter.bender at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 12:02:29 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:02:29 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] TA Portfolio Message-ID: I just posted Version 1 of a new Activity, TAPortfolio (http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/2/2d/TAPortfolio-1.xo). It is a presentation tool based on TurtleArt that allows you to make "powerpoint-like" presentations from documents found in your Journal. I've not written up much documentation for it yet (what little there is can be found on my user page: http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Walter#Portfolio) and there are many unimplemented features, such as audio and video playback. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. enjoy. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 11 12:03:47 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:03:47 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Help me developing for Sugar In-Reply-To: <175126.41891.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <175126.41891.qm@web53306.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <242851610901110903j67f37a75qb5e04c97a049b909@mail.gmail.com> [adding sugar-devel at sugarlabs.org to cc] On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 12:44, master puppetz wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Lazim and I'm a student from Malaysia. I am new in open source > especially in Sugar development. Regard to my proposal at projectdb, I'd > like to develop an e-mail client called SugarMail. > > I'm not sure whether SugarMail is possible to be developed or not, but my > proposal is to make SugarMail to be an e-mail client that don't required > mail server for sending e-mail among XO users. It sound ridiculous, but it's > not imposible. Sounds interesting. > The problem is I don't have enough knowledge about developing a software for > Sugar and currently I still don't receive my requested XO laptop for me to > figure out. I've run the Sugar through emulation under the qemu but my > laptop condition not very good at running 2 operating system simultaneously. The activity team is being created as we talk, and I expect that tutorials, welcome irc sessions, etc will be prepared soon. I hope you will enjoy them and look forward seeing how you develop your activity. http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam > I would like to ask for anyone that would help me be my mentor on developing > this SugarMail. I also appreciate if anybody have any suggestion on how to > develop the SugarMail under Windows environment as I'm using Windows XP on > my laptop right now. Easy way to install ubuntu in windows: http://wubi-installer.org/ Regards, Tomeu > Lazim, > > SugarMail, http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/SugarMail > OLPC Malaysia, http://olpcmalaysia.blogspot.com > Lazim, http://www.mohdlazim.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 11 13:05:53 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:05:53 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus only including geeks :p [adding iaep and marketing to cc] On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm wrote: > > On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: > >> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" >> >> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the >> "Pla" >> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to >> repeat it >> often and consistently > > Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed > better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of > the second form. > -- > imm > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From geirea at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 16:22:56 2009 From: geirea at gmail.com (Gabriel Eirea) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:22:56 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Anatomy Educational Activity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3c866f940901111322u76e53633m741e358f42b13d20@mail.gmail.com> Hi Arjun: For a long time I have been thinking about using the same code I use in the Conozco Uruguay activity to build a human anatomy activity. I only need to create the figures of different layers of the body ("outside", digestive system, nervous system, circulatory system, etc), but lack the time and knowledge to do it right. If you want to help please contact me. For your reference http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Conozco_Uruguay. It's a very basic point-and-click activity but may be a good starting point. We would need to introduce translations since it is Spanish only now. Regards, Gabriel 2009/1/11 Arjun Sarwal : > Hi Arjun! > > I do remember you.How are you ? > > I don't know if there are any ongoing efforts on an Activity around human > Anatomy, but you could start by making a wiki page in which you could > generally outline your initial thoughts and ideas on the Activity - how it > would like like, what content areas you hope to cover etc. > > There is also an SugarLabs (sugarlabs.org) Activity Team being developed, so > they would be able to give some guiding inputs too! > > Hope the above information helps to get started. Let me know your thoughts. > > cheers > Arjun > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Arjun Nayini wrote: >> >> Long time no talk! >> I dont know if you remember me but I am a student at IMSA and I'm >> interested in OLPC Health. Currently I'm at the Boston Headquarters working >> on a deployment initiative to a local school (6th grade class). Their >> curriculum requires a study of anatomy so I am very interested in >> contributing to an Anatomy educational activity. Do you have any ideas or >> have you heard of anyone willing to continue work on the Anatomy activity? >> Thank you so much and I hope to hear from you soon >> ----Arjun > > > -- > Arjun Sarwal > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sun Jan 11 20:01:13 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:01:13 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging Message-ID: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> Hi all, Some thought after reading https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F Maybe instead of choosing one format for activities just add to activity.info dependency in common/distro-unbinded notation: - Activity's author package code in .xo format with dependency string like 'Requires = pygtk' in activity.info - user downloads .xo and pass it to distro-specific installer; installer translates dependency from distro-unbinded notation to native package name and pass it to package manager; and install activity itself -- Aleksey From bryan at olenepal.org Sun Jan 11 21:49:42 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:49:42 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> my apologies ;) What do you guys think? Playground : Where kids learn and play or SugarLand: where kids learn and play or Sugar: Where kids learn and play w/ transpositions of learn and play On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 19:05 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus only > including geeks :p > > [adding iaep and marketing to cc] > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm wrote: > > > > On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: > > > >> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" > >> > >> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the > >> "Pla" > >> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to > >> repeat it > >> often and consistently > > > > Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed > > better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of > > the second form. > > -- > > imm > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From chris at ole.org Sun Jan 11 23:35:39 2009 From: chris at ole.org (Chris Rowe) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:35:39 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] does this run in Browse? We really need it to In-Reply-To: <1231691513.7263.45.camel@hitman> References: <1231691513.7263.45.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <1d9bb9750901112035s407a80bfv603a227dde9b6743@mail.gmail.com> Ck12 is django based as far as I know. Not sure about the front end. I don't think it is open source software though. Just content. On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: > Ck12.org has put together an awesome "flexbook" application that lets > you read open-source textbooks online or download them as pdfs. They > have done it entirely w/ javascript as far as I can tell. I haven't had > the chance to test it on my xo yet > > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Sent from my mobile device Chris Rowe Educational Technology Consultant Open Learning Exchange +1 (512) 553-0852 skype: eworsirhc From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 00:36:49 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:36:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> I personally prefer 'Sugar' over 'Sugarland'. The latter seems a bit like another world, where I think people want to be educated to succeed in the real one. SugarLand might appeal more to children. But then we would also want to make the UI less focused and more like a video game, which I don't necessarily agree with. Best, Wade On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: > my apologies ;) > > What do you guys think? > > Playground : Where kids learn and play > > or > > SugarLand: where kids learn and play > > or > > Sugar: Where kids learn and play > > w/ transpositions of learn and play > > On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 19:05 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus only >> including geeks :p >> >> [adding iaep and marketing to cc] >> >> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm wrote: >> > >> > On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: >> > >> >> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" >> >> >> >> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the >> >> "Pla" >> >> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to >> >> repeat it >> >> often and consistently >> > >> > Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed >> > better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of >> > the second form. >> > -- >> > imm >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 00:45:39 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:45:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110132p3eb51811p6c369b1163397ca3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901112145uba6b237k70c1a7748f5d18df@mail.gmail.com> Thank you all for the overwhelming support for this idea! And thanks Rafael for setting up the wiki page. I've begun filling it with initial content and will continue to do so over the next few days. I'll also work to set a time for our inaugural IRC meeting. I'm looking forward to the fun beginning! :) -Wade On 1/11/09, Nirav Patel wrote: > Count me in as well. This is a wonderful idea and could very well be > what is necessary to make the wish list of Activities proposals real. > > Nirav > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: >> +1 >> I am in too. >> >> Arjun >> >> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>> I believe this will make a very big difference in the future of Sugar. >>> >>> Good luck and have fun, >>> >>> Tomeu >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 19:46, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>> > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. >>> > >>> > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity >>> > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers >>> > are planning to do the same. >>> > >>> > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, >>> > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are >>> > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. >>> > >>> > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of >>> > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. >>> > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there >>> > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those >>> > holes remain two years later. >>> > >>> > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. >>> > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have >>> > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of >>> > activities available for Sugar. >>> > >>> > We will: >>> > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. >>> > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. >>> > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature >>> > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. >>> > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure >>> > activity developers are well supported. >>> > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities >>> > are doing in the field. >>> > >>> > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. >>> > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development >>> > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem >>> > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities >>> > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. >>> > >>> > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the >>> > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate >>> > that. >>> > >>> > Best, >>> > Wade >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Sugar-devel mailing list >>> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> >> >> -- >> Arjun Sarwal >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 03:42:53 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:42:53 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] does this run in Browse? We really need it to In-Reply-To: <1d9bb9750901112035s407a80bfv603a227dde9b6743@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231691513.7263.45.camel@hitman> <1d9bb9750901112035s407a80bfv603a227dde9b6743@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901120042y1db0d8eat98d90d0759a213cd@mail.gmail.com> Worked fine here. Regards, Tomeu On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 05:35, Chris Rowe wrote: > Ck12 is django based as far as I know. Not sure about the front end. I > don't think it is open source software though. Just content. > > On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: >> Ck12.org has put together an awesome "flexbook" application that lets >> you read open-source textbooks online or download them as pdfs. They >> have done it entirely w/ javascript as far as I can tell. I haven't had >> the chance to test it on my xo yet >> >> >> -- >> Bryan W. Berry >> Technology Director >> OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Chris Rowe > Educational Technology Consultant > Open Learning Exchange > +1 (512) 553-0852 > skype: eworsirhc > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From alsroot at member.fsf.org Mon Jan 12 04:09:58 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:09:58 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901111943i127837f9w39ef3ebfedc5ed00@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901111943i127837f9w39ef3ebfedc5ed00@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090112090958.GA17411@antilopa-gnu> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:43:01PM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: > On 1/11/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Some thought after reading > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F > > > > Maybe instead of choosing one format for activities just add to > > activity.info dependency in common/distro-unbinded notation: > > > > - Activity's author package code in .xo format with dependency string like > > 'Requires = pygtk' in activity.info > > - user downloads .xo and pass it to distro-specific installer; > > installer translates dependency from distro-unbinded notation to native > > package name and pass it to package manager; > > and install activity itself. > > Something to consider: different distros will have different package > naming conventions and versioning. We might want to encorage using the > fedora dep conventions and look into how the "alien" package handles > this. You missed my main purpose: activity author should not known about variety of GNU/Linux distros, his behaviour should be very straightforward - after including 'import pygame' to .py, please include 'Requires = pygame' to activity.info. The whole dependencies mess in proper distro should be work out by distro-specific installer -- Aleksey From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 04:16:49 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:16:49 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> Message-ID: <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> [adding sugar-devel to the cc list] On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:42, Philipp Kocher wrote: > > > Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 04:50, Philipp Kocher >> wrote: >>> >>> Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>>> >>>> On 18.12.2008, at 08:08, Philipp Kocher wrote: >>>>> >>>>> One more thing, the scratch icon is not shown in the journal for files >>>>> with the scratch mimetype. I think the file >>>>> /usr/share/sugar/data/mime.defaults has to be adapted to include the >>>>> scratch-mimetype. >>>> >>>> It just has to be listed in the activity bundle's info file: >>>> >>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#.info_File_Format >>>> >>>> - Bert - >>>> >>>> >>> I added the mime_types attribute to the activities.info file and the >>> icon attribute is set as well. But still the Scratch icon is not shown >>> in the Journal (the default octet-stream icon is shown) even so the >>> Scratch mime-type is set in the metadata file in the datastore. >>> >>> I think the problem is connected to the gtk theme (gtk-update-icon-cache >>> and update-mime-database). e.g. etoys has file etoys.xml in >>> /usr/share/mime/packages and probably the icon in the icon cache. >>> >>> How can I put the icon in the icon-cache? >> >> Hi, Sugar will put it there for you when the .xo bundle is installed. >> That means that if the activity bundle gets installed from outside >> Sugar, the mime db won't be updated. >> >> So, I would recommend you to uninstall Scratch from Sugar, then >> installing the .xo bundle by downloading it with Browse or by copying >> it into the journal from an usb stick. >> >> HTH, >> >> Tomeu >> > > Thanks for the input, but I wasn't successful. > > I tried the following: > 1. Extracted the files of "Scratch-12.xo" > 2. Added the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the > activity.info file > 2. Created a new archive file "Scratch-12_mime.xo" with the change > 3. Erased activity Scratch on the XO > 4. Copied the file "Scratch-12_mime.xo" to the Journal > 5. Started/Installed "Scratch-12_mime.xo" > 6. Copied Scratch project to the Journal with "copy-to-journal test.sb -m > 'application/x-scratch-project' -t test.sb" Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this will not affect the icon of those files. > test.sb still has the standard icon and not the Scratch cat icon in the > Journal. > > Which activity is using the mime db update feature? Don't know myself :/ > I would expect a new > timestamp for the file /usr/share/mime/mime.cache after installing the > activity. Well, activities are installed by a normal user so that file won't be modified. Instead, the cache will live in ~/.local/share/mime > Can I execute the mime db update on the command line? Yes: update-mime-database ~/.local/share/mime If you want to get the details and fully understand how this is done, you can check this code: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-toolkit/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/sugar/bundle/activitybundle.py#line318 That gets executed when a bundle is unpacked and registered in the shell. As you can see, if a file activity/mimetypes.xml is found in the exploded dir, a symlink will be made to this file form the mime dir and the updater script will be run. HTH, Tomeu From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 06:19:40 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:19:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> I guess Bryan thinks of it as a play on "Mathland" (in Papert's sense, not the curriculum of the same name). The name of squeakland.org was inspired by the same idea: "What would happen if children who can?t do math grew up in Mathland, a place that is to math what France is to French?" --S.P. Also see http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html - Bert - On 12.01.2009, at 06:36, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I personally prefer 'Sugar' over 'Sugarland'. The latter seems a bit > like another world, where I think people want to be educated to > succeed in the real one. > > SugarLand might appeal more to children. But then we would also want > to make the UI less focused and more like a video game, which I don't > necessarily agree with. > > Best, > Wade > > On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: >> my apologies ;) >> >> What do you guys think? >> >> Playground : Where kids learn and play >> >> or >> >> SugarLand: where kids learn and play >> >> or >> >> Sugar: Where kids learn and play >> >> w/ transpositions of learn and play >> >> On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 19:05 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus >>> only >>> including geeks :p >>> >>> [adding iaep and marketing to cc] >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" >>>>> >>>>> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the >>>>> "Pla" >>>>> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to >>>>> repeat it >>>>> often and consistently >>>> >>>> Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed >>>> better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of >>>> the second form. >>>> -- >>>> imm >>>> From erikb at mediamods.com Mon Jan 12 07:16:03 2009 From: erikb at mediamods.com (Erik Blankinship) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:16:03 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but the suggestions are very suggestive of Candyland. http://bp1.blogger.com/_GBSubG7_qbw/Rj_u39QVD7I/AAAAAAAAAGQ/YAZ3WRMdYbU/s1600-h/Candyland-1949.JPG http://www.mipo37.com/CandyLand.jpg On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > I guess Bryan thinks of it as a play on "Mathland" (in Papert's sense, > not the curriculum of the same name). The name of squeakland.org was > inspired by the same idea: > > "What would happen if children who can't do math grew up in Mathland, > a place that is to math what France is to French?" --S.P. > > Also see > > http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html > > - Bert - > > On 12.01.2009, at 06:36, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > > I personally prefer 'Sugar' over 'Sugarland'. The latter seems a bit > > like another world, where I think people want to be educated to > > succeed in the real one. > > > > SugarLand might appeal more to children. But then we would also want > > to make the UI less focused and more like a video game, which I don't > > necessarily agree with. > > > > Best, > > Wade > > > > On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: > >> my apologies ;) > >> > >> What do you guys think? > >> > >> Playground : Where kids learn and play > >> > >> or > >> > >> SugarLand: where kids learn and play > >> > >> or > >> > >> Sugar: Where kids learn and play > >> > >> w/ transpositions of learn and play > >> > >> On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 19:05 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >>> Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus > >>> only > >>> including geeks :p > >>> > >>> [adding iaep and marketing to cc] > >>> > >>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" > >>>>> > >>>>> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the > >>>>> "Pla" > >>>>> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to > >>>>> repeat it > >>>>> often and consistently > >>>> > >>>> Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed > >>>> better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of > >>>> the second form. > >>>> -- > >>>> imm > >>>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090112/e42d7dc9/attachment.htm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 07:20:29 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:20:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <242851610901120420u6ae9ec38s921cb261e279dcae@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 13:16, Erik Blankinship wrote: > Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but the suggestions are very suggestive of > Candyland. > http://bp1.blogger.com/_GBSubG7_qbw/Rj_u39QVD7I/AAAAAAAAAGQ/YAZ3WRMdYbU/s1600-h/Candyland-1949.JPG > > http://www.mipo37.com/CandyLand.jpg The molasses swamp reminded me that we should do some more performance work after the feature freeze. Regards, Tomeu > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> >> I guess Bryan thinks of it as a play on "Mathland" (in Papert's sense, >> not the curriculum of the same name). The name of squeakland.org was >> inspired by the same idea: >> >> "What would happen if children who can't do math grew up in Mathland, >> a place that is to math what France is to French?" --S.P. >> >> Also see >> >> http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html >> >> - Bert - >> >> On 12.01.2009, at 06:36, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >> > I personally prefer 'Sugar' over 'Sugarland'. The latter seems a bit >> > like another world, where I think people want to be educated to >> > succeed in the real one. >> > >> > SugarLand might appeal more to children. But then we would also want >> > to make the UI less focused and more like a video game, which I don't >> > necessarily agree with. >> > >> > Best, >> > Wade >> > >> > On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: >> >> my apologies ;) >> >> >> >> What do you guys think? >> >> >> >> Playground : Where kids learn and play >> >> >> >> or >> >> >> >> SugarLand: where kids learn and play >> >> >> >> or >> >> >> >> Sugar: Where kids learn and play >> >> >> >> w/ transpositions of learn and play >> >> >> >> On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 19:05 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>> Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus >> >>> only >> >>> including geeks :p >> >>> >> >>> [adding iaep and marketing to cc] >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition of the >> >>>>> "Pla" >> >>>>> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to >> >>>>> repeat it >> >>>>> often and consistently >> >>>> >> >>>> Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form flowed >> >>>> better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the concept of >> >>>> the second form. >> >>>> -- >> >>>> imm >> >>>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 09:13:59 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:13:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Classmate 2 available Message-ID: ... at least in the US (international shipping seems ridiculously expensive): http://2gopc.com/2goPC_ConvPC.html This should be a nice machine for testing (single-) touch input, and maybe the tilt sensor could be useful to some activities, too. Who does the first Sugar screenshot? :) - Bert - From gary at garycmartin.com Mon Jan 12 10:04:24 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:04:24 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <242851610901120420u6ae9ec38s921cb261e279dcae@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120420u6ae9ec38s921cb261e279dcae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12 Jan 2009, at 12:20, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 13:16, Erik Blankinship > wrote: >> Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but the suggestions are very >> suggestive of >> Candyland. >> http://bp1.blogger.com/_GBSubG7_qbw/Rj_u39QVD7I/AAAAAAAAAGQ/YAZ3WRMdYbU/s1600-h/Candyland-1949.JPG >> >> http://www.mipo37.com/CandyLand.jpg > > The molasses swamp reminded me that we should do some more performance > work after the feature freeze. LOL :-) +1 --G > > > Regards, > > Tomeu > >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg > > >> wrote: >>> >>> I guess Bryan thinks of it as a play on "Mathland" (in Papert's >>> sense, >>> not the curriculum of the same name). The name of squeakland.org was >>> inspired by the same idea: >>> >>> "What would happen if children who can't do math grew up in >>> Mathland, >>> a place that is to math what France is to French?" --S.P. >>> >>> Also see >>> >>> http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html >>> >>> - Bert - >>> >>> On 12.01.2009, at 06:36, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>> >>>> I personally prefer 'Sugar' over 'Sugarland'. The latter seems a >>>> bit >>>> like another world, where I think people want to be educated to >>>> succeed in the real one. >>>> >>>> SugarLand might appeal more to children. But then we would also >>>> want >>>> to make the UI less focused and more like a video game, which I >>>> don't >>>> necessarily agree with. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Wade >>>> >>>> On 1/11/09, Bryan Berry wrote: >>>>> my apologies ;) >>>>> >>>>> What do you guys think? >>>>> >>>>> Playground : Where kids learn and play >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> SugarLand: where kids learn and play >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> Sugar: Where kids learn and play >>>>> >>>>> w/ transpositions of learn and play >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, 2009-01-11 at 19:05 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>> Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus >>>>>> only >>>>>> including geeks :p >>>>>> >>>>>> [adding iaep and marketing to cc] >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 17:54, imm >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11 Jan 2009, at 15:43, Bryan Berry wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Sugar: A Place to Play and Learn" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have trouble saying this 3x quickly due to the repetition >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> "Pla" >>>>>>>> sound. It may sound trivial but it does affect our ability to >>>>>>>> repeat it >>>>>>>> often and consistently >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes - me too, that's why I thought the "Learn and Play" form >>>>>>> flowed >>>>>>> better... I liked the sounds of that first form, but the >>>>>>> concept of >>>>>>> the second form. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> imm >>>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 10:52:10 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:52:10 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open > files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this > will not affect the icon of those files. Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an activity? - Bert - From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 11:03:29 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:03:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >> will not affect the icon of those files. > > Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an > activity? Currently, only by changing the mime-type. Regards, Tomeu From eben at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 11:04:11 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:04:11 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <948b197c0901120804v39fa060bofb538bf7cdec3d0@mail.gmail.com> This is something I've briefly discussed with Marco in the past. It seems a natural extension of the idea of "objects" as first class citizens of Sugar to allow those objects to have custom icons and identities. Right now, we have no such support. The most natural way (at least for me, as a Mac user) to visualize this idea is in the form of type/creator associations, by which an object would be assigned the icon for type t as defined by its creator c. This scheme is nice because it makes the effort on the part of activities rather simple (most importantly, static): define your set of icons and the mime-types the represent within your activity bundle, and the system will always apply the correct icons. However, it seems this can't work for Sugar. I suppose we could simply allow an activity to assign an icon to a given object at will, as you mention. It might be the best way to achieve a similar effect, albeit with more effort on the part of activities. - Eben On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >> will not affect the icon of those files. > > Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an > activity? > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 11:38:02 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:38:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >>> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >>> will not affect the icon of those files. >> >> Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in >> an >> activity? > > Currently, only by changing the mime-type. Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as application/x-scratch-project found then? - Bert - From luke at faraone.cc Mon Jan 12 11:44:52 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (luke at faraone.cc) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:44:52 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <20090112090958.GA17411@antilopa-gnu> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901111943i127837f9w39ef3ebfedc5ed00@mail.gmail.com> <20090112090958.GA17411@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> On 1/12/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:43:01PM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: >> On 1/11/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Some thought after reading >> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F >> > >> > Maybe instead of choosing one format for activities just add to >> > activity.info dependency in common/distro-unbinded notation: >> > >> > - Activity's author package code in .xo format with dependency string >> > like >> > 'Requires = pygtk' in activity.info >> > - user downloads .xo and pass it to distro-specific installer; >> > installer translates dependency from distro-unbinded notation to >> > native >> > package name and pass it to package manager; >> > and install activity itself. >> >> Something to consider: different distros will have different package >> naming conventions and versioning. We might want to encorage using the >> fedora dep conventions and look into how the "alien" package handles >> this. > > You missed my main purpose: activity author should not known about variety > of > GNU/Linux distros, his behaviour should be very straightforward - after > including 'import pygame' to .py, please include 'Requires = pygame' to > activity.info. The whole dependencies mess in proper distro should be work > out > by distro-specific installer That'd be a huge amount of work unless we had some standard for naming. We could use the already-existing python egg package format... which already has dep handling and is cross platform. Was that already considered? -of From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 11:52:51 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:52:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901111943i127837f9w39ef3ebfedc5ed00@mail.gmail.com> <20090112090958.GA17411@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12.01.2009, at 17:44, luke at faraone.cc wrote: > On 1/12/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:43:01PM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: >>> On 1/11/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Some thought after reading >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F >>>> >>>> Maybe instead of choosing one format for activities just add to >>>> activity.info dependency in common/distro-unbinded notation: >>>> >>>> - Activity's author package code in .xo format with dependency >>>> string >>>> like >>>> 'Requires = pygtk' in activity.info >>>> - user downloads .xo and pass it to distro-specific installer; >>>> installer translates dependency from distro-unbinded notation to >>>> native >>>> package name and pass it to package manager; >>>> and install activity itself. >>> >>> Something to consider: different distros will have different package >>> naming conventions and versioning. We might want to encorage using >>> the >>> fedora dep conventions and look into how the "alien" package handles >>> this. >> >> You missed my main purpose: activity author should not known about >> variety >> of >> GNU/Linux distros, his behaviour should be very straightforward - >> after >> including 'import pygame' to .py, please include 'Requires = >> pygame' to >> activity.info. The whole dependencies mess in proper distro should >> be work >> out >> by distro-specific installer > > That'd be a huge amount of work unless we had some standard for > naming. > > We could use the already-existing python egg package format... which > already has dep handling and is cross platform. Was that already > considered? This seems to ignore non-Python activities. - Bert - From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 11:55:36 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:55:36 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg >> wrote: >>> >>> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>>> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >>>> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >>>> will not affect the icon of those files. >>> >>> Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an >>> activity? >> >> Currently, only by changing the mime-type. > > > Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as > application/x-scratch-project found then? We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism through which activities can associate icons to mime types. In a python shell inside strace -e open: >>> gio.content_type_get_icon('image/png') open("/home/tomeu/.local/share//mime/mime.cache", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 open("/home/tomeu/sugar-jhbuild/install/share/mime/mime.cache", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 open("/usr/share/mime/mime.cache", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 open("/usr/local/share//mime/aliases", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/local/share//mime/subclasses", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/local/share//mime/icons", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/local/share//mime/generic-icons", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/share//mime/mime.cache", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3 open("/usr/share/gdm//mime/aliases", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/share/gdm//mime/subclasses", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/share/gdm//mime/icons", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) open("/usr/share/gdm//mime/generic-icons", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) Regards, Tomeu From dr at jones.dk Mon Jan 12 11:55:48 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:55:48 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901111943i127837f9w39ef3ebfedc5ed00@mail.gmail.com> <20090112090958.GA17411@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090112165548.GB26337@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:44:52AM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: >On 1/12/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:43:01PM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: >>> On 1/11/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > Some thought after reading >>> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F >>> > >>> > Maybe instead of choosing one format for activities just add to >>> > activity.info dependency in common/distro-unbinded notation: >>> > >>> > - Activity's author package code in .xo format with dependency string >>> > like >>> > 'Requires = pygtk' in activity.info >>> > - user downloads .xo and pass it to distro-specific installer; >>> > installer translates dependency from distro-unbinded notation to >>> > native >>> > package name and pass it to package manager; >>> > and install activity itself. >>> >>> Something to consider: different distros will have different package >>> naming conventions and versioning. We might want to encorage using the >>> fedora dep conventions and look into how the "alien" package handles >>> this. >> >> You missed my main purpose: activity author should not known about variety >> of >> GNU/Linux distros, his behaviour should be very straightforward - after >> including 'import pygame' to .py, please include 'Requires = pygame' to >> activity.info. The whole dependencies mess in proper distro should be work >> out >> by distro-specific installer > >That'd be a huge amount of work unless we had some standard for naming. > >We could use the already-existing python egg package format... which >already has dep handling and is cross platform. Was that already >considered? I am no expert in Python, but I believe that eggs are currently unsupported (and possibly even discouraged) in Debian (and thus also some, possibly all, its derivatives). I also believe eggs to be specific to Python, and .xo packaging is not. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklrdhQACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhB6gCfXoqjGTMJtjY7C506WCi0qmHl isMAn2y8xxqX4xGTC9IiybCiOhS1iJY+ =4tbf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alsroot at member.fsf.org Mon Jan 12 12:05:23 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:05:23 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901111943i127837f9w39ef3ebfedc5ed00@mail.gmail.com> <20090112090958.GA17411@antilopa-gnu> <2eaf0c620901120844g1395a0adib71f8125884886d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090112170523.GA26332@antilopa-gnu> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:44:52AM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: > On 1/12/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:43:01PM -0500, luke at faraone.cc wrote: > >> On 1/11/09, Aleksey Lim wrote: > >> > Hi all, > >> > > >> > Some thought after reading > >> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F > >> > > >> > Maybe instead of choosing one format for activities just add to > >> > activity.info dependency in common/distro-unbinded notation: > >> > > >> > - Activity's author package code in .xo format with dependency string > >> > like > >> > 'Requires = pygtk' in activity.info > >> > - user downloads .xo and pass it to distro-specific installer; > >> > installer translates dependency from distro-unbinded notation to > >> > native > >> > package name and pass it to package manager; > >> > and install activity itself. > >> > >> Something to consider: different distros will have different package > >> naming conventions and versioning. We might want to encorage using the > >> fedora dep conventions and look into how the "alien" package handles > >> this. > > > > You missed my main purpose: activity author should not known about variety > > of > > GNU/Linux distros, his behaviour should be very straightforward - after > > including 'import pygame' to .py, please include 'Requires = pygame' to > > activity.info. The whole dependencies mess in proper distro should be work > > out > > by distro-specific installer > > That'd be a huge amount of work unless we had some standard for naming. yup, I meant standard naming scheme > We could use the already-existing python egg package format... which > already has dep handling and is cross platform. Was that already > considered? good question (only one but - non-python activities) -- Aleksey From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 12:07:13 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:07:13 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> On 12.01.2009, at 17:55, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> >> On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg >> > >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >>>>> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >>>>> will not affect the icon of those files. >>>> >>>> Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it >>>> in an >>>> activity? >>> >>> Currently, only by changing the mime-type. >> >> >> Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as >> application/x-scratch-project found then? > > We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained > in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism > through which activities can associate icons to mime types. So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the generic document icon? - Bert - From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 12:11:48 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:11:48 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:07, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 12.01.2009, at 17:55, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg >> wrote: >>> >>> On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >>>>>> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >>>>>> will not affect the icon of those files. >>>>> >>>>> Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an >>>>> activity? >>>> >>>> Currently, only by changing the mime-type. >>> >>> >>> Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as >>> application/x-scratch-project found then? >> >> We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained >> in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism >> through which activities can associate icons to mime types. > > > So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal > (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the > generic document icon? Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the xdg mime database. I think that John is already trying this. Regards, Tomeu From eben at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 12:16:17 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:16:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <948b197c0901120916n1d548c13x52f83b0eae813bc3@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:07, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> >> On 12.01.2009, at 17:55, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >>>>>>> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >>>>>>> will not affect the icon of those files. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an >>>>>> activity? >>>>> >>>>> Currently, only by changing the mime-type. >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as >>>> application/x-scratch-project found then? >>> >>> We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained >>> in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism >>> through which activities can associate icons to mime types. >> >> >> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal >> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the >> generic document icon? > > Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure > > Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the > xdg mime database. What does this merge do with conflicts? It seems we might need a way for the most recent activity which has used a given object to apply its own icon for it, which isn't covered by this case. Would the most recently installed activity trump the rest? - Eben > I think that John is already trying this. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 12:23:21 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:23:21 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <948b197c0901120916n1d548c13x52f83b0eae813bc3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <948b197c0901120916n1d548c13x52f83b0eae813bc3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901120923p6a48ac3cj15db05c48e99591a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:16, Eben Eliason wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:07, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>> >>> On 12.01.2009, at 17:55, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 17:38, Bert Freudenberg >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 16:52, Bert Freudenberg >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 10:16, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ok, what you just did will tell Sugar that Scratch is able to open >>>>>>>> files with the mime type 'application/x-scratch-project'. But this >>>>>>>> will not affect the icon of those files. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there a way to assign icons for files other than by saving it in an >>>>>>> activity? >>>>>> >>>>>> Currently, only by changing the mime-type. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I misunderstood then. How is the icon for a mime type such as >>>>> application/x-scratch-project found then? >>>> >>>> We are using the xdg mime database, the mimetypes.xml file contained >>>> in activities is added to that database. So that's the mechanism >>>> through which activities can associate icons to mime types. >>> >>> >>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the Journal >>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the >>> generic document icon? >> >> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >> >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >> >> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the >> xdg mime database. > > What does this merge do with conflicts? It seems we might need a way > for the most recent activity which has used a given object to apply > its own icon for it, which isn't covered by this case. Would the most > recently installed activity trump the rest? Not sure about what we can do regarding this while not having to cook our own mime info stuff. This is the spec implemented by the tools we are using: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/shared-mime-info-spec Regards, Tomeu > - Eben > > >> I think that John is already trying this. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 12:47:01 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:47:01 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs Message-ID: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved Missing images at the top. http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems This page needs to be cleaned up. It's linked from the main page as 'Get sugar' but the organization of the page is very confusing. I think it should be a simple table of Platform -> Download page. Many of the sub-pages are stubs. Any volunteers to give this section a facelift? -Wade From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 12:50:46 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:50:46 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496577EF.3060308@gmx.net> <242851610901080110n4b7aa3f4v74ff7a4c4532b341@mail.gmail.com> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the >> Journal >> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather >> than the >> generic document icon? > > Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure > > Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the > xdg mime database. > > I think that John is already trying this. Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) - Bert - From sj at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 13:26:30 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:26:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] XOCamp 2, Day 1 update Message-ID: <5396c0d10901121026l34b68da9l537c58b48084e6a4@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, We're in the middle of day 1 of XOCamp. You can take part in a few ways; we are * streaming over the web at justin.tv (search for xocamp and olpc), * on an call-in conference line (see the wiki page for details) * on IRC in the #olpc channel on freenode.net. For those without irc clients, you can use your browser: visit http://forum.laptop.org/chat to open #olpc-help, then type "/join #olpc" For the current week's agenda, and slides for many talks, please see: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOCamp_2 We have a few sessions of open hacking, and are glad to include new brief sessions or discussion topics; we can also present slides for you if you can't do it in person / want to engage remotely. Finally, we are archiving the conference media and transcripts; if you have general questions about OLPC, our communities and deployments, getting involved, or Sugar and hardware development, feel free to ask them on the event's talk page and we will make sure your questions get answered. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:XOCamp_2 Regards, SJ From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 12 13:30:05 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:30:05 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the >>> Journal >>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the >>> generic document icon? >> >> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >> >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >> >> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the >> xdg mime database. >> >> I think that John is already trying this. > > > Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. > And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading > one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Regards, Tomeu From gary at garycmartin.com Mon Jan 12 13:34:23 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:34:23 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> On 12 Jan 2009, at 17:47, Wade Brainerd wrote: > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved > > Missing images at the top. Can I put first dibs on making these images if no one else has started yet? I'm thinking a set of simple Sugar activity iconic style. --G > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems > > This page needs to be cleaned up. It's linked from the main page as > 'Get sugar' but the organization of the page is very confusing. I > think it should be a simple table of Platform -> Download page. Many > of the sub-pages are stubs. Any volunteers to give this section a > facelift? > > -Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 13:56:05 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:56:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Helping with activity development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> Hi Marco, Yifan! Absolutely, there are a ton of activities which could use help right now. I'll throw out some options and you can pick the one you think would be best suited to your skills: Labyrinth - Mind mapping activity. Gary is currently leading the port of this PyGTK program to Sugar, it's current at an alpha stage I think. Mind mapping software has been specifically requested by teachers at deployments. Labyrinh needs help improving and extending the user interface, so PyGTK skills would be important. Or, collaboration would be a great addition! Typing Turtle - Touch typing activity with a turtle mascot. We are developing activity this with the Nepal and Afganistan deployments. Peru has also requested this activity as a high priority. TT is in pre-alpha but is close to its first release. Help is mostly needed testing and fixing the activity for use with foreign languages, and developing the lesson builder script. GUI programming experience is not critical, but Python skills and i18n knowledge, as well as the ability to work in a language other than English would be very useful. Math - Another request by the Peru deployment is simple math games. I have started working on some math puzzles with Peter Moxhay, based a suite of Java lessons he wrote in the past. These are very early in development but there are a lot of games to write. Also, examples are available, so it's really just porting and the work goes quickly. Another job which would have a big impact would be the SWF and Web activity launchers. SWF: The Nepal deployment have created a suite of Flash based learning activities but are currently having to jump through many hoops to package them correctly. We would like to have a 'swf-activity' launcher written in Python, which creates a fullscreen activity window and launches Gnash in the window with a .SWF file. This launcher would then be used to easily make activity bundles out of SWF files. Web: Other deployments are using HTML+Javascript+CSS to make learning activities, but they currently have to be installed using the Library Collection feature of Sugar which is not well developed. We would like to build a 'web-activity' launcher script which allows Web based activities to be first class activities. This work would involve making a new framework out of the source code to the Browse activity. If you're interested, I can forward you a long email I wrote about this task. As you (and everyone) can see, there are a variety of high impact activity development tasks that can be done in the next weeks and will affect hundreds, if not thousands of children in the short term. More will become apparent as we make talk with the deployments and find out what their needs are. I will collect these and other high impact activity development tasks at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/TODO. Best, Wade On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > Hi Wade, Gary, > > Yifan would like to help out with activities development. She is > already somewhat familiar with the activities framework and she would > like to build an activity which is useful, or to contribute to the > development of existing ones. Do you guys have ideas about projects > she could take on? > > Cheers, > Marco > From sj at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 14:02:11 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:02:11 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Helping with activity development In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901121102tccbcbc1tf4f139e0e39670f3@mail.gmail.com> Let me add: 1. Making collaborative Maze even more awesome. This is currently the most addictive multiplayer game on the XO, and it needs a further dusting of crack, including better statistics, handicaps, &c. 2. Making Speak collaboration effective. This has the potential to be an awesome communication method; not only a chat option for the blind but a way of teaching specific words, and a fun way to engage small clusters of people around an XO -- sound carries well to people who aren't currently reading the screen. SJ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi Marco, Yifan! > > Absolutely, there are a ton of activities which could use help right > now. I'll throw out some options and you can pick the one you think > would be best suited to your skills: > > Labyrinth - Mind mapping activity. Gary is currently leading the port > of this PyGTK program to Sugar, it's current at an alpha stage I > think. Mind mapping software has been specifically requested by > teachers at deployments. Labyrinh needs help improving and extending > the user interface, so PyGTK skills would be important. Or, > collaboration would be a great addition! > > Typing Turtle - Touch typing activity with a turtle mascot. We are > developing activity this with the Nepal and Afganistan deployments. > Peru has also requested this activity as a high priority. TT is in > pre-alpha but is close to its first release. Help is mostly needed > testing and fixing the activity for use with foreign languages, and > developing the lesson builder script. GUI programming experience is > not critical, but Python skills and i18n knowledge, as well as the > ability to work in a language other than English would be very useful. > > Math - Another request by the Peru deployment is simple math games. I > have started working on some math puzzles with Peter Moxhay, based a > suite of Java lessons he wrote in the past. These are very early in > development but there are a lot of games to write. Also, examples are > available, so it's really just porting and the work goes quickly. > > Another job which would have a big impact would be the SWF and Web > activity launchers. > > SWF: The Nepal deployment have created a suite of Flash based learning > activities but are currently having to jump through many hoops to > package them correctly. We would like to have a 'swf-activity' > launcher written in Python, which creates a fullscreen activity window > and launches Gnash in the window with a .SWF file. This launcher > would then be used to easily make activity bundles out of SWF files. > > Web: Other deployments are using HTML+Javascript+CSS to make learning > activities, but they currently have to be installed using the Library > Collection feature of Sugar which is not well developed. We would > like to build a 'web-activity' launcher script which allows Web based > activities to be first class activities. This work would involve > making a new framework out of the source code to the Browse activity. > If you're interested, I can forward you a long email I wrote about > this task. > > As you (and everyone) can see, there are a variety of high impact > activity development tasks that can be done in the next weeks and will > affect hundreds, if not thousands of children in the short term. More > will become apparent as we make talk with the deployments and find out > what their needs are. > > I will collect these and other high impact activity development tasks > at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/TODO. > > Best, > Wade > > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti > wrote: >> Hi Wade, Gary, >> >> Yifan would like to help out with activities development. She is >> already somewhat familiar with the activities framework and she would >> like to build an activity which is useful, or to contribute to the >> development of existing ones. Do you guys have ideas about projects >> she could take on? >> >> Cheers, >> Marco >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From pgf at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 14:03:00 2009 From: pgf at laptop.org (pgf at laptop.org) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:03:00 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Helping with activity development In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3409.1231786980@foxharp.boston.ma.us> wade wrote: > Hi Marco, Yifan! > > Absolutely, there are a ton of activities which could use help right > now. I'll throw out some options and you can pick the one you think > would be best suited to your skills: ... > > Math - Another request by the Peru deployment is simple math games. I > have started working on some math puzzles with Peter Moxhay, based a > suite of Java lessons he wrote in the past. These are very early in > development but there are a lot of games to write. Also, examples are > available, so it's really just porting and the work goes quickly. at xocamp, bryan berry just described an elementary math activity they're using in nepal. (locally developed.) worth asking him about. =--------------------- paul fox, pgf at laptop.org From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 14:07:37 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:07:37 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Helping with activity development In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901121102tccbcbc1tf4f139e0e39670f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121102tccbcbc1tf4f139e0e39670f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901121107g79742316wa0679e6ce2a34201@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > Let me add: > > 1. Making collaborative Maze even more awesome. > > This is currently the most addictive multiplayer game on the XO, and > it needs a further dusting of crack, including better statistics, > handicaps, &c. > > 2. Making Speak collaboration effective. > > This has the potential to be an awesome communication method; not only > a chat option for the blind but a way of teaching specific words, and > a fun way to engage small clusters of people around an XO -- sound > carries well to people who aren't currently reading the screen. Awesome! BTW, I think we could really use some collaboration experts in the ActivityTeam. Is there anyone out there who has done collaboration in the past who would like to step up to make these two happen? -Wade From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 12 14:23:33 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:23:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1DF6C9B7-57E6-43AF-9554-94F00BF410AA@freudenbergs.de> On 12.01.2009, at 19:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >> downloading >> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why >> is that?) > > No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys > rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? Yes. Though I can't imagine how that would affect the icon size: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Picture 2.png Type: image/png Size: 14857 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090112/c6f6597a/attachment-0001.png -------------- next part -------------- Or is it intentional? - Bert - From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 14:26:50 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:26:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901121126l44cf08e0yf7abb52eaec369ff@mail.gmail.com> Hello again, If you would like to join the ActivityTeam, the Contact page at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Contacts is available for you to add your name. When adding your name to the list, please take a minute and decide how you will contribute to the effort. Then, go over to the To Do List at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/TODO and put your name down next to something using four tildes (~~~~). A lot of tasks are as simple as moving a Git repository or making sure activities have up to date tarballs for distribution. There are also bigger tasks like helping to get activities.sugarlabs.org running or taking up one of the High Impact tasks from the other thread. Looking forward to seeing you there! -Wade PS - I'm hoping to make it down to XOcamp one evening this week, either Tuesday or Wednesday. On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. > > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers > are planning to do the same. > > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. > > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those > holes remain two years later. > > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > activities available for Sugar. > > We will: > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > activity developers are well supported. > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > are doing in the field. > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > that. > > Best, > Wade > From eben at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 14:40:25 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:40:25 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <1DF6C9B7-57E6-43AF-9554-94F00BF410AA@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <1DF6C9B7-57E6-43AF-9554-94F00BF410AA@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <948b197c0901121140x3e9ce8a6p96c96b780ef68f32@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 12.01.2009, at 19:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading >>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is >>> that?) >> >> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys >> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? > > > Yes. Though I can't imagine how that would affect the icon size: > > > > > Or is it intentional? Definitely not intentional. - Eben > > - Bert - > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From yifan.sun at students.olin.edu Mon Jan 12 14:53:12 2009 From: yifan.sun at students.olin.edu (Yifan) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:53:12 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Helping with activity development In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901121107g79742316wa0679e6ce2a34201@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121102tccbcbc1tf4f139e0e39670f3@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901121107g79742316wa0679e6ce2a34201@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <90baabc50901121153p32feb52bw3ae69c6e4401565@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Wow, this is a pretty exciting list! I'd be interested in helping out with the Math activities, if possible. What's the best way to contact Peter Moxhay for some ideas? Thanks, Yifan On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > > Let me add: > > > > 1. Making collaborative Maze even more awesome. > > > > This is currently the most addictive multiplayer game on the XO, and > > it needs a further dusting of crack, including better statistics, > > handicaps, &c. > > > > 2. Making Speak collaboration effective. > > > > This has the potential to be an awesome communication method; not only > > a chat option for the blind but a way of teaching specific words, and > > a fun way to engage small clusters of people around an XO -- sound > > carries well to people who aren't currently reading the screen. > > Awesome! > > BTW, I think we could really use some collaboration experts in the > ActivityTeam. Is there anyone out there who has done collaboration in > the past who would like to step up to make these two happen? > > -Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090112/5e61e7ce/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 15:14:32 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:14:32 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Helping with activity development In-Reply-To: <90baabc50901121153p32feb52bw3ae69c6e4401565@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901121056n7f0d0a37xa76a8abbbc7226d5@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121102tccbcbc1tf4f139e0e39670f3@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901121107g79742316wa0679e6ce2a34201@mail.gmail.com> <90baabc50901121153p32feb52bw3ae69c6e4401565@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901121214g1c221b06s92dd3025194a21af@mail.gmail.com> Great! To get started, set up a Sugar environment if you haven't already and try out the activity: git clone git://dev.laptop.org/users/wadeb/math cd math ./setup.py dev I'll reply offline with Peter's email. -Wade On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Yifan wrote: > Hi all, > > Wow, this is a pretty exciting list! I'd be interested in helping out with > the Math activities, if possible. What's the best way to contact Peter > Moxhay for some ideas? Thanks, > > Yifan > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: >> > Let me add: >> > >> > 1. Making collaborative Maze even more awesome. >> > >> > This is currently the most addictive multiplayer game on the XO, and >> > it needs a further dusting of crack, including better statistics, >> > handicaps, &c. >> > >> > 2. Making Speak collaboration effective. >> > >> > This has the potential to be an awesome communication method; not only >> > a chat option for the blind but a way of teaching specific words, and >> > a fun way to engage small clusters of people around an XO -- sound >> > carries well to people who aren't currently reading the screen. >> >> Awesome! >> >> BTW, I think we could really use some collaboration experts in the >> ActivityTeam. Is there anyone out there who has done collaboration in >> the past who would like to step up to make these two happen? >> >> -Wade >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 15:18:17 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:18:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <2bcfd3d60901121209o27cd5c4ar3f455869a2dadde9@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901121126l44cf08e0yf7abb52eaec369ff@mail.gmail.com> <2bcfd3d60901121209o27cd5c4ar3f455869a2dadde9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901121218r307b926bw930ac61f37da0440@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, I'm expecting the AT coordinators to be Gitorious admins with the ability to add/remove users. I'd rather not encourage wild forking of activities with crazy patch flows if possible :) I still have a lot to learn about Gitorious. However, the *easiest* way to contribute to an activity is: git clone ...make changes git commit git format-patch -1 Then email the 0001-My-commit-description.patch file to the sugar-devel mailing list. This approach doesn't require any help from anyone, so I suggest it as the best way to "jump in". But it gets cumbersome when you start doing a lot of work, so you will want to do something like what you're suggesting eventually. -Wade On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Brian Jordan wrote: > Hey, > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Hello again, >> >> If you would like to join the ActivityTeam, the Contact page at >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Contacts is available for you to >> add your name. >> >> When adding your name to the list, please take a minute and decide how >> you will contribute to the effort. Then, go over to the To Do List at >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/TODO and put your name down next >> to something using four tildes (~~~~). >> >> A lot of tasks are as simple as moving a Git repository or making sure >> activities have up to date tarballs for distribution. There are also >> bigger tasks like helping to get activities.sugarlabs.org running or >> taking up one of the High Impact tasks from the other thread. >> > > (Pardon my inexperience with Gitorious) > > To become a contributor to an activity, is the suggested process (1) > make account on Gitorious, (2) email owner of project directly, (3) > wait to be added, (4) commit changes? > > What do you think about adding an active ActivityTeam coordinator to > be an admin for each activity project, in case (3) takes a while? Or > is there a global admin role that would allow for something like this? > > Over analyzing imaginary bottlenecks, > Brian > >> Looking forward to seeing you there! >> >> -Wade >> >> PS - I'm hoping to make it down to XOcamp one evening this week, >> either Tuesday or Wednesday. >> >> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>> Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. >>> >>> Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity >>> development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers >>> are planning to do the same. >>> >>> SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, >>> but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are >>> essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. >>> >>> One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of >>> high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. >>> While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there >>> were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those >>> holes remain two years later. >>> >>> And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. >>> The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have >>> the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of >>> activities available for Sugar. >>> >>> We will: >>> 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. >>> 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. >>> 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature >>> ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. >>> 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure >>> activity developers are well supported. >>> 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities >>> are doing in the field. >>> >>> Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. >>> The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development >>> community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem >>> of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities >>> "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. >>> >>> Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the >>> idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate >>> that. >>> >>> Best, >>> Wade >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From sj at laptop.org Mon Jan 12 18:10:48 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:10:48 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> What scope of software projects is SL interested in mentoring this year? I am concerned that this program may make the typical first-year mistake of treating SoC like an opportunity to get free coding for known projects, rather than an opportunity to mentor rewarding internships for motivated and talented students. In particular, the vast majority of promising original proposals OLPC saw last year were from students working on their own activities or platforms to support activity creation. A gsoc program that does not support activity development or activity toolchains would be dramatically different. Similarly, OLPC SoC projects related to core components and critical paths, or pieces of a large puzzle, have often led to frustration. Your Mentorship May Vary! Jameson, I'm not sure in what sense you were delegated to ask questions about GSOC and SL/OLPC, but I hope you will participate in this thread. SJ On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > On reflection, I think it might be a good thing to make a single > really excellent mentoring framework for people through sugarlabs.. From yifan.sun at students.olin.edu Mon Jan 12 18:13:40 2009 From: yifan.sun at students.olin.edu (Yifan) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:13:40 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extra power cord at fudcon Message-ID: <90baabc50901121513l1b034195m96db346f289ad203@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys, Yesterday, I accidentally walked out with two power cords. I took it from E145, so I assume it's a sugar developer's cord. It's a three-pronged Dell cord. If anybody lost one such cord and wants it back, please let me know so I can return it. Thanks, Yifan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090112/6bc6d858/attachment.htm From mel at melchua.com Tue Jan 13 00:04:50 2009 From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:04:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> > What scope of software projects is SL interested in mentoring this year? See http://sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code, which (afaik) reflects the current state of plans. > I am concerned that this program may make the typical first-year > mistake of treating SoC like an opportunity to get free coding for > known projects, rather than an opportunity to mentor rewarding > internships for motivated and talented students. I've asked Leslie (who runs the GSoC program at Google) as well as other GSoC alumni how SL can avoid n00b org mistakes, so thanks for the heads-up on this one. I am puzzled, though; are these two things mutually exclusive? In any case, students will be proposing their own projects, as is usual with GSoC; what we're talking about is kickstarting their proposal thinking by listing known projects of the *type* they could take on (thought they may think the listed projects are the most rewarding they could do, that's fine as well), that SL developers themselves find interesting and important. Understanding what's hard and what's important to a community makes it far easier to join and participate in it, at least in my experience. > A gsoc program that does not > support activity development or activity toolchains would be > dramatically different. It would be quite different. Is this bad? OLPC, SL, and the software projects they work on were also in a dramatically different state a year ago. Can you help me understand your concerns with the current SL GSoC plan? > Jameson, I'm not sure in what sense you were delegated to ask > questions about GSOC and SL/OLPC, but I hope you will participate in > this thread. Jameson graciously offered (thank you, Jameson!) to find out some things about this year's GSoC program since I've been pretty swamped the last few days and had earlier offered to take on the responsibility for coordinating SL's GSoC efforts for 2009. (This has been publicly discussed and documented; see http://sugarlabs.org/go/MarketingTeam/Meetings/12-2-2008 and http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/2008-December/000116.html and such.) I'm always happy to share my responsibilities, though, as I tend to have this habit of working myself out of a job. ;-) Hope this helps, --Mel From bert at freudenbergs.de Tue Jan 13 03:54:48 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:54:48 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> Message-ID: <61F72E56-C0A0-4FBD-8BE9-32E64C51A059@freudenbergs.de> On 13.01.2009, at 06:55, Philipp Kocher wrote: > Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, > the > mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just > had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to > "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity > dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that > feature. > Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. Thanks! This is not documented anywhere I know of. So I put it here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure Hope someone can proof-read / confirm. > Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm > etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file > /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- > artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is > adding the file > /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- > project.svg. Interesting ... thanks for the archaeology :) Eben: see, I did remember correctly there was an icon for the document independent of the activity ;) That must be the smaller version. - Bert - From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 04:03:20 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:03:20 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> Message-ID: <242851610901130103q278f40f6la896f07d39b7208f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 06:55, Philipp Kocher wrote: > > > Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >> wrote: >>> >>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> >>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the >>>>> Journal >>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than >>>>> the >>>>> generic document icon? >>>> >>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >>>> >>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>> >>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the >>>> xdg mime database. >>>> >>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>> >>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. >> >> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >> >>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading >>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is >>> that?) >> >> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys >> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> > > Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the > mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just > had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to > "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity > dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. > Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. Yes, you are right in that you don't need to mess with mimetypes.xml if you only want to set the icon for a mime type. mimetype.xml also serves to associate a file extension with a mime type, and Scratch might also want this so that scratch projects copied from a removable files are correctly identified as such. Thanks, Tomeu > John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch > version: > - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the > activity.info file > - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in the > activity directory > > Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm > etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file > /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 > is > adding the file > /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. > > Regards, > Philipp > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 06:30:15 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:30:15 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 14:07, Sascha Silbe wrote: > Hi! > > calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's the > right place to report it? Hi, http://dev.sugarlabs.org Thanks, Tomeu From bert at freudenbergs.de Tue Jan 13 07:35:52 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:35:52 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> Message-ID: On 13.01.2009, at 13:30, John Maloney wrote: > Hi, Phillip. > > Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at > several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out > from them how to do this. > > I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. > > Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar > to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? That file provides the mapping from file extensions to MIME types, so it is needed for Scratch bundles downloaded from the Web or a USB memory stick to be recognized as such. - Bert - > -- John > > > On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: >> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >> > wrote: >>>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into >>>>>> the >>>>>> Journal >>>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon >>>>>> rather than the >>>>>> generic document icon? >>>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >>>>> >>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>>> >>>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file >>>>> into the >>>>> xdg mime database. >>>>> >>>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>>> >>>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp >>>> had done. >>> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >>>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >>>> downloading >>>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - >>>> why is that?) >>> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the >>> etoys >>> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >>> Regards, >>> Tomeu >> >> Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. >> However, the >> mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just >> had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to >> "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity >> dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that >> feature. >> Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. >> >> John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch >> version: >> - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the >> activity.info file >> - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in the >> activity directory >> >> Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm >> etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file >> /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- >> artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is >> adding the file >> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >> project.svg. >> >> Regards, >> Philipp >> > From alsroot at member.fsf.org Tue Jan 13 07:38:19 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:38:19 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: <20090113123819.GA4567@antilopa-gnu> Hi all, Maybe its only my peculiar desire (to talk about packaging issues:), but... Since I'm trying support sugar in Gentoo/ALILinux/Mandriva, I don't know how to treat honey activities: - package them all and do not rely on w.l.o/addons.s.o - let user download them from w.l.o/addons.s.o - what about installing proper deps - prevent installing unsupported (for current platform) activities - blobs in activities, what should I do with pre-built 32b .so on x86_64 (and future ARM/MIPS) platform In regard to that issue I've created wiki page to formalize all possible solutions, please take a look at that and feel free to add your own comments/pro/contras/schemas: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/PackagingIdeas -- Aleksey From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Tue Jan 13 08:14:34 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:14:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). >> Where's the >> right place to report it? > http://dev.sugarlabs.org Thanks! Done [1]. [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090113/72a31f66/attachment.pgp From luke at faraone.cc Tue Jan 13 08:49:34 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <20090113123819.GA4567@antilopa-gnu> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <20090113123819.GA4567@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901130549q15d8383bg6acf25ec6e56574f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > Maybe its only my peculiar desire (to talk about packaging issues:), but... > > Since I'm trying support sugar in Gentoo/ALILinux/Mandriva, > I don't know how to treat honey activities: > > - package them all > and do not rely on w.l.o/addons.s.o > - let user download them from w.l.o/addons.s.o I do think this would be the best option, if we're able to hammer out a spec for deps that is easy to parse. - prevent installing unsupported (for current platform) activities > - blobs in activities, what should I do with pre-built 32b .so > on x86_64 (and future ARM/MIPS) platform 32b binaries will work on 64bit systems. However, maybe we should extend the XO bundle spec to have our .xo builder also build an .xos source file that can be compiled later -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090113/0f6ec960/attachment.htm From reinier at heeres.eu Tue Jan 13 08:56:37 2009 From: reinier at heeres.eu (Reinier Heeres) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:56:37 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: Hi, Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org to indicate this? Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working fine, this is not the case for http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but something went wrong."), Bernie? Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could you please update that in jhbuild as well? Thanks! Reinier On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>> the >>> right place to report it? >> >> http://dev.sugarlabs.org > > Thanks! > Done [1]. > > > [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG > DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 > EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM > t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb > XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d > uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== > =/Rd6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Reinier Heeres Waalstraat 17 2515 XK Den Haag The Netherlands Tel: +31 6 10852639 From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 09:20:47 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:20:47 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: > Hi, > > Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is > now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the > calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody > (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org > to indicate this? Done. > Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from > git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working > fine, this is not the case for > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but > something went wrong."), Bernie? git-clone http://git.sugarlabs.org/git/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git works fine here. Thanks, Tomeu > Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could > you please update that in jhbuild as well? > > Thanks! > Reinier > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe > wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>>> the >>>> right place to report it? >>> >>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org >> >> Thanks! >> Done [1]. >> >> >> [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 >> >> CU Sascha >> >> -- >> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG >> DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 >> EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM >> t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb >> XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d >> uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== >> =/Rd6 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > > > > -- > Reinier Heeres > Waalstraat 17 > 2515 XK Den Haag > The Netherlands > > Tel: +31 6 10852639 > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 09:38:06 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:38:06 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] .rpms vs .xos for Activity packaging In-Reply-To: <20090113123819.GA4567@antilopa-gnu> References: <20090112010113.GA16410@antilopa-gnu> <20090113123819.GA4567@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: Aleksey, You are taking on a hughly import piece of the puzzle. Mozilla struggled, and continues to struggle, to figure out how to package and distribute addons. Addons, for the most part, just work on the windows platform, because developers know what resources and apis are available. This becomes more complicated on Linux bcause distributions provide different resources. As such, some packages must be packaged in the native package management systems to pull in dependencies and interact with the system. Other packages can build on top of Mozilla. Between this and the users space/root issues, this will be an interesting, challenging, and unsolved problem:) david On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > Maybe its only my peculiar desire (to talk about packaging issues:), but... > > Since I'm trying support sugar in Gentoo/ALILinux/Mandriva, > I don't know how to treat honey activities: > > - package them all > and do not rely on w.l.o/addons.s.o > - let user download them from w.l.o/addons.s.o > - what about installing proper deps > - prevent installing unsupported (for current platform) activities > - blobs in activities, what should I do with pre-built 32b .so > on x86_64 (and future ARM/MIPS) platform > > In regard to that issue I've created wiki page to formalize > all possible solutions, please take a look at that and feel free > to add your own comments/pro/contras/schemas: > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/PackagingIdeas > > -- > Aleksey > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From sebastian at fuentelibre.org Tue Jan 13 10:02:23 2009 From: sebastian at fuentelibre.org (Sebastian Silva) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:02:23 -0300 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <289760090901130701x499a1a1fi8a31879065c0e384@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> <289760090901130701x499a1a1fi8a31879065c0e384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <289760090901130702u35a35fb9sb5049dc9c2d4266c@mail.gmail.com> (sent priv to tomeu instead of list, sorry tomeu) A couple of days ago I cloned sugar-jhbuild from git.laptop.org into my new debian Lenny. Can I expect that by tweaking .git/config "remote origin" bit, and updating, I get the real stuff, or do I clone/build again? Thanks Sebastian > > 2009/1/13 Tomeu Vizoso : >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is >>> now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the >>> calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody >>> (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org >>> to indicate this? >> >> Done. >> >>> Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from >>> git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working >>> fine, this is not the case for >>> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but >>> something went wrong."), Bernie? >> >> git-clone http://git.sugarlabs.org/git/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git >> >> works fine here. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could >>> you please update that in jhbuild as well? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Reinier >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe >>> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> >>>>>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>>>>> the >>>>>> right place to report it? >>>>> >>>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Done [1]. >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 >>>> >>>> CU Sascha >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >>>> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>>> >>>> iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG >>>> DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 >>>> EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM >>>> t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb >>>> XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d >>>> uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== >>>> =/Rd6 >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Reinier Heeres >>> Waalstraat 17 >>> 2515 XK Den Haag >>> The Netherlands >>> >>> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > > -- > Sebastian Silva > Laboratorios FuenteLibre > http://blog.sebastiansilva.com/ > -- Sebastian Silva Laboratorios FuenteLibre http://blog.sebastiansilva.com/ From reinier at heeres.eu Tue Jan 13 10:30:30 2009 From: reinier at heeres.eu (Reinier Heeres) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:30:30 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Tomeu, On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is >> now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the >> calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody >> (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org >> to indicate this? > > Done. I don't see an indication at dev.laptop.org to point to git.sugarlabs.org? Thanks for updating the calculate source on git.sl.org though! >> Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from >> git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working >> fine, this is not the case for >> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but >> something went wrong."), Bernie? > > git-clone http://git.sugarlabs.org/git/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git > > works fine here. Yes, that's right; cloning/git works, but the web interface (still) seems to be down. Cheers, Reinier > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > >> Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could >> you please update that in jhbuild as well? >> >> Thanks! >> Reinier >> >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe >> wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>>>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>>>> the >>>>> right place to report it? >>>> >>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Done [1]. >>> >>> >>> [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 >>> >>> CU Sascha >>> >>> -- >>> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >>> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>> iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG >>> DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 >>> EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM >>> t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb >>> XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d >>> uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== >>> =/Rd6 >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Reinier Heeres >> Waalstraat 17 >> 2515 XK Den Haag >> The Netherlands >> >> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > -- Reinier Heeres Waalstraat 17 2515 XK Den Haag The Netherlands Tel: +31 6 10852639 From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 10:34:38 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:34:38 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901130734m671eecc2k37e71981693329ff@mail.gmail.com> What's the best way to request that something be updated in sugar-jhbuild? It should be clarified at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC On 1/13/09, Reinier Heeres wrote: > Hi Tomeu, > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is >>> now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the >>> calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody >>> (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org >>> to indicate this? >> >> Done. > > I don't see an indication at dev.laptop.org to point to > git.sugarlabs.org? Thanks for updating the calculate source on > git.sl.org though! > >>> Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from >>> git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working >>> fine, this is not the case for >>> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but >>> something went wrong."), Bernie? >> >> git-clone http://git.sugarlabs.org/git/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git >> >> works fine here. > > Yes, that's right; cloning/git works, but the web interface (still) > seems to be down. > > Cheers, > Reinier > >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could >>> you please update that in jhbuild as well? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Reinier >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe >>> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> >>>>>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>>>>> the >>>>>> right place to report it? >>>>> >>>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Done [1]. >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 >>>> >>>> CU Sascha >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >>>> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>>> >>>> iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG >>>> DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 >>>> EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM >>>> t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb >>>> XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d >>>> uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== >>>> =/Rd6 >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Reinier Heeres >>> Waalstraat 17 >>> 2515 XK Den Haag >>> The Netherlands >>> >>> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >> > > > > -- > Reinier Heeres > Waalstraat 17 > 2515 XK Den Haag > The Netherlands > > Tel: +31 6 10852639 > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 10:35:03 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:35:03 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901130735w1448a90ah8de4d58d2d0b793d@mail.gmail.com> Got it, I read your email backwards :) On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 16:30, Reinier Heeres wrote: > Hi Tomeu, > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is >>> now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the >>> calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody >>> (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org >>> to indicate this? >> >> Done. > > I don't see an indication at dev.laptop.org to point to > git.sugarlabs.org? Thanks for updating the calculate source on > git.sl.org though! Wonder what we could do other than removing it? Henry hardy isn't working at OLPC any more, anyone knows who could remove the repo? >>> Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from >>> git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working >>> fine, this is not the case for >>> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but >>> something went wrong."), Bernie? >> >> git-clone http://git.sugarlabs.org/git/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git >> >> works fine here. > > Yes, that's right; cloning/git works, but the web interface (still) > seems to be down. True, misunderstood you. I didn't noticed because my awesome bar remembered the longer urls. So Bernie should give it a look. Regards, Tomeu > Cheers, > Reinier > >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could >>> you please update that in jhbuild as well? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Reinier >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe >>> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> >>>>>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>>>>> the >>>>>> right place to report it? >>>>> >>>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Done [1]. >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 >>>> >>>> CU Sascha >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >>>> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>>> >>>> iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG >>>> DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 >>>> EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM >>>> t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb >>>> XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d >>>> uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== >>>> =/Rd6 >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Reinier Heeres >>> Waalstraat 17 >>> 2515 XK Den Haag >>> The Netherlands >>> >>> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >> > > > > -- > Reinier Heeres > Waalstraat 17 > 2515 XK Den Haag > The Netherlands > > Tel: +31 6 10852639 > From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 13 10:35:25 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:35:25 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Tarballs Due the 15th of January Message-ID: <496CB4BD.10608@schampijer.de> Dear Sucrose maintainers, please provide source tarballs for the Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release by the end of the 15th of January and announce them as explained here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release#Module_release Note that we use http://download.sugarlabs.org now to host the Sucrose sources. The Sucrose maintainers should nearly all have developer accounts with Sugar Labs already. Catch me or bernie on #sugar if you have further questions or problems. *NOTE:* This Release is the Feature, API, String freeze. Please land your pending features, check items in the TODO list and verify that all the new strings are exposed and do not contain any typing errors. More info on the Schedule: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap#Schedule Thanks, Your Release Team PS: Since this is asked often, an explanation what we mean with Sucrose: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 10:37:48 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:37:48 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901130734m671eecc2k37e71981693329ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901130734m671eecc2k37e71981693329ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901130737i4a8174b0i58f9b2bd38c2673c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 16:34, Wade Brainerd wrote: > What's the best way to request that something be updated in > sugar-jhbuild? It should be clarified at > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC Done, suggested to enter a ticket. Regards, Tomeu > On 1/13/09, Reinier Heeres wrote: >> Hi Tomeu, >> >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is >>>> now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the >>>> calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody >>>> (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org >>>> to indicate this? >>> >>> Done. >> >> I don't see an indication at dev.laptop.org to point to >> git.sugarlabs.org? Thanks for updating the calculate source on >> git.sl.org though! >> >>>> Although cloning sugar-jhbuild from >>>> git://git.sugarlabs.org/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git seems to be working >>>> fine, this is not the case for >>>> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild ("We're sorry, but >>>> something went wrong."), Bernie? >>> >>> git-clone http://git.sugarlabs.org/git/sugar-jhbuild/mainline.git >>> >>> works fine here. >> >> Yes, that's right; cloning/git works, but the web interface (still) >> seems to be down. >> >> Cheers, >> Reinier >> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Tomeu >>> >>>> Also, I moved calculate over to git.sugarlabs.org. Marco/Tomeu, could >>>> you please update that in jhbuild as well? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Reinier >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Sascha Silbe >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:30:15PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> calculate is broken in sugar-jhbuild (./autogen.sh not found). Where's >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> right place to report it? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> Done [1]. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9190 >>>>> >>>>> CU Sascha >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> http://sascha.silbe.org/ >>>>> http://www.infra-silbe.de/ >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> >>>>> iQEVAwUBSWyTurpz82VMF3DaAQJlXAf/TyCpczLW0gYk5Rf2FCNHskjI8gN1R8oG >>>>> DFaDlS4cA0KOx0NhZEc17dwhWV3yV6KPYCCKflziNLUtVYDK0sfps6XAXbDYLpZ8 >>>>> EqPp8U/On/9xvQ8mhpbCboSVrlXtRRd6qPdV+smMH3QDLDnU/xDRtWdIUJKI+sEM >>>>> t4gfJ25WSQaafS1ALKmV/9JbrxQKzUQdG+FlmUF5pXaskkeih1NXChu5XWMcMqhb >>>>> XoVULtc8wF2SlFOYsFaibD2WnE0y6n7FJl5m6fegXYAJmt/0Xn3Te6NsBycoFi9d >>>>> uG65xzSe4G8/0p8EjFq2IJ+m4P4yhuCtCUdxMzwJaymzVTKTYrYIuQ== >>>>> =/Rd6 >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Reinier Heeres >>>> Waalstraat 17 >>>> 2515 XK Den Haag >>>> The Netherlands >>>> >>>> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Reinier Heeres >> Waalstraat 17 >> 2515 XK Den Haag >> The Netherlands >> >> Tel: +31 6 10852639 >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From eben at laptop.org Tue Jan 13 11:22:55 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:22:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <61F72E56-C0A0-4FBD-8BE9-32E64C51A059@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <61F72E56-C0A0-4FBD-8BE9-32E64C51A059@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <948b197c0901130822i615d3ba5t3b9d702c7c28b933@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 13.01.2009, at 06:55, Philipp Kocher wrote: > >> Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, >> the >> mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just >> had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to >> "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity >> dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that >> feature. >> Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. > > Thanks! This is not documented anywhere I know of. So I put it here: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure > > Hope someone can proof-read / confirm. > >> Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm >> etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file >> /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- >> artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is >> adding the file >> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >> project.svg. > > > Interesting ... thanks for the archaeology :) > > Eben: see, I did remember correctly there was an icon for the document > independent of the activity ;) Indeed. However, that one's not mine, and I wasn't aware of it. I think it must have been copied before I or someone else (don't recall) matched the Etoys icon to the spec. I just checked the file you mention, and it clearly has a 75x75 pixel canvas, which is why it's being scaled down. - Eben > That must be the smaller version. > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From walter.bender at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:26:43 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:26:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2009-01-13 Message-ID: === Sugar Digest === 1. The announcement of changes at One Laptop per Child (OLPC) this week dominated the discussions on the lists, IRC, and in the hallway conversations at FUDCon and XO Camp. While it came as no surprise that OLPC was going to focus its efforts on deployments, largely leaving engineering, including software development, to third parties, the abruptness of the transition and its direct impact on so many talented and dedicated people was a surprise, even within the context of global economic upheaval. I'd like to take this opportunity to extend say thank you to the engineers who have worked so tirelessly on the project for their leadership, both those whom I had the pleasure of working with when I was at OLPC?Eben Eliason, Jim Gettys, Scott Anahain, Michael Stone, and Henry Hardy?as well as many others?those who joined OLPC after I left?whom I learned to respect through my interactions with them while wearing my Sugar Labs hat. Having spoken with many of you, I know you will remain active in the Sugar community, even as you seek new opportunities. One of the reasons we start Sugar Labs nine months ago was that we anticipated these changes at OLPC. It was clear to many of us at the time that the Sugar learning platform could and should be made more widely available and that in order for Sugar to grow, it would have to become a community project, without extensive ties or dependencies on any single company or organization. The Sugar Labs community is expanding. The downsizing of OLPC's engineering efforts, while significant to OLPC deployments in the short term, is actually a catalyst for a needed change. It compels the deployments to be more self-sufficient and more interconnected. Indeed, one direct consequence of the events of last week is the acceleration of plans for local Sugar Labs around the world. A decentralize approach, where engineering investments in support of Sugar and learning are made locally, is one of our great strengths. Short-term contingency plans for supporting the current OLPC deployments were discussed at FUDCon and are a topic of discussion at XO Camp. While not all of the details of how the OLPC 9.1 release will be managed, the overall direction that is being taken is one that relies more directly on the upstream Fedora community. There remains at OLPC a core engineering team that will be able to liaise with Fedora (and Sugar Labs) to make sure that an OLPC-XO-1-specific dependencies are met. Long term, OLPC will undoubtedly directly leverage the efforts of the Sugar community as it continues down the path of integration with the various upstream GNU/Linux distributions. Having Sugar run everywhere only enhances their position. 2. Meanwhile, we've all been busy this week, using FUDCon and XO Camp as an opportunity to meet face to face with many of of colleagues. Feature freeze Sugar 0.84 is at the end of this week and we have already begun discussion about our goals for 0.86. The various Sugar Labs community teams have been active. Christian Marc Schmidt continues to make great progress on a new landing site for [http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/betasite sugarlabs.org]. Greg Dekoenigsberg is taking a lead role in the Sugar Labs Engineering Community (Caroline Meeks, David Farning, and I are reaching out to a number of potential partners to fill Greg's shoes on the Marketing Team. === Community jams, meet-ups, and meetings === 3. There are numerous posting on the [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF11 FUDConF11 site] regarding what we accomplished at FUDCon this past weekend. 4. You can follow along with the events of XO Camp [http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XOcamp_2 here]. 5. We are still looking for someone to represent Sugar Labs at [http://scale7x.socallinuxexpo.org/ SCALE] in LA in February. 6. I will be a Sugar Labs representation at [http://linux.conf.au/ LCA] next week. Mel Chua will also be traveling from Boston to Tasmania for the conference. We are looking forward to seeing our colleagues in Hobart. 7. OLPC Learning CLub DC will be holding a Family XO Mesh Meet up on Saturday, January 17th, 2009 (See [http://olpclearningclub.org/meetings/jumping-into-2009-little-things-and-a-jam/]). === Help Wanted === 8. Wade Brainerd had started a [[ActivityTeam| Sugar Labs Activity Team]] to develop and maintain the activities available for Sugar. The team encourages independent developers to write activities and will support them in those efforts. :Our goal is to ensure that Sugar provides a complete set of high-quality educational, collaborative, constructivist activities. 9. We are still seeking help in regard to copy and illustrations for the new site. One project we have in mind is a comicbook-like narrative about Sugar to be featured on the static site. Also, we'd love stories from the field?from teachers, parents, and students, about their experiences and perspectives on Sugar. It is important that we communicate our message more widely and in language that is more approachable to the non-technical community. === Tech Talk === 10. .xo vs .rpm: One interesting discussion at FUDCon was in regard to the format for Sugar Activities. You can follow the discussion in detail [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Sugar_on_Fedora:_RPMs_or_.xos%3F here]. 11. Tomeu Vizoso has an illustrated blog (also in the planet) about [http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2009/01/what-ive-been-up-since-last-post.html all that he has been up to in the past weeks]: * reviewed and pushed Ryan Kabir's work on moving most of the actions from the palette of the Home View XO icon onto the Frame so that they are always accessible, regardless of which view you are in. * worked on the file transfer UI * added a utility class (util.TempFilePath) that hopefully will remove the temp file leaks we have been suffering in past releases * worked on removable devices in the Journal (They no longer use an index or write to the device without user action) * changed the Home View to display the last entries for every activity and resume by default when the icon is clicked. 12. I've released Verison 1.0 of a portfolio tool for Sugar [http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/2/2d/TAPortfolio-1.xo TAPortfolio-1.xo]. Preliminary documentation can be found on my user page [[User:Walter/TAPortfolio]]. TAPortfolio is a presentation Activity that lets you create multimedia slide shows from material retrieved from your Journal. The basic idea is to import objects from your Journal, along with descriptions and preview images, into slide templates, not unlike Powerpoint, and then show a presentation by stepping through them. TA Portfolio includes the typical major functions of presentation software: an editor that allows text to be inserted and formatted (this is largely incomplete), a method for inserting images (from the Journal), and a slide-show system to display the content. What makes it a bit different than tools such as Powerpoint is that you can program your slides using TurtleArt blocks. TAPortfolio also has an export-to-HTML function so that presentations can be viewed outside of the Sugar environment. Feedback appreciated. (Version 2.0 should be available shortly.) 13. Wolfgang Rohrmoser reports that Version 090110 of the XO-LiveCD is available for download from: ftp://rohrmoser-engineering.de/pub/XO-LiveCD/XO-LiveCD_090110.iso This release is still based on the stable 8.2 build: http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/olpc/streams/8.2/build767/devel_ext3/ but has significant improvements for the Live-System runtime environment: * A new Content/ directory tree improves the selection of activities, content collections and language packs as well as selection of additional RPM packages * There is a new pre-configured home/olpc directory tree packed as squashfs-image. The current version contains more than 50 activities. * Improved hardware detection and additional boot options especially to get more graphic cards working * Updated documentation, the topics "how to create a bootable USB Pen" and "how to install the Live-System on hard disc" have been improved Further information is available in the PDF document: ftp://rohrmoser-engineering.de/pub/XO-LiveCD/XO-LiveCD_090110.pdf For discussion and feedback Wolfgang invites you to join the mailing list: http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/livebackup-xo-cd Kurt Gramlich reports that if Wolfgang's server is overloaded, you will find a copy of the LiveCD here: http://www.skolelinux.de/download/XOLiveCD/XO-LiveCD_090110.iso 14. Hilaire Fernandes announced an alpha bundle of www.iStoa.net for Sugar. (iSTOA.net is a research project to build a platform for interactive teaching and monitoring the Internet. It is free and cross-licensed MIT.) There are about 40 "etayages" (a type of scaffolding) and all in all more than 150 exercises. The bundle can be downloaded directly from: http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/14090/iStoa.net-8.12-alpha1.xo === Sugar Labs === 15. Gary Martin has generated another SOM from the past week of discussion on the IAEP mailing list (Please see [[:Image:2009-January-3-9-som.jpg |SOM]]). -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From sj at laptop.org Tue Jan 13 11:31:49 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:31:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] XOCamp 2: Day 2 update Message-ID: <5396c0d10901130831s21d298fdi182649ac810d392b@mail.gmail.com> We've made a few schedule changes today, with talks about customization, signing, and activation moved to later in the afternoon, and a longer session on the school server through the morning. http://blog.laptop.org/2009/01/12/xo-camp-on-tv/ Feel free to leave comments, questions and ideas on the schedule's talkpage if you can't join in person. SJ From morgan.collett at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:41:06 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:41:06 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 21:13, Bryan Berry wrote: > I came up w/ an idea that would help us market Sugar to the general > public. We need a slogan expresses what Sugar allows kids to do, its > purpose, and puts a positive image in the minds of most people. > > Here is my slogan suggestion: > > "Sugarland: Where Kids Learn and Play" > > Adding "Land" expresses that Sugarland, e.g. Sugar, is a whole > environment where kids learn, play, express themselves, create, etc. > Words like "platform", "engine", "environment" sound like tools for > adults and don't indicate that this is a tool for children. I just got a belated Christmas card from friends who are now in Sugar Land, TX USA. Perhaps that's where our corporate HQ should be based, once we've taken over the world? :) > I also like "Playground: Where Kids Learn and Play" Playground expresses > a safe place for kids to play but doesn't necessarily convey "learning" > to a lot of people. A bit too generic, I think... Are the kids going to play on the playground or the Playground? Regards Morgan From dirakx at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:41:52 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:41:52 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-01-13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello > > One of the reasons we start Sugar Labs nine months ago was that we > anticipated these changes at OLPC. It was clear to many of us at the > time that the Sugar learning platform could and should be made more > widely available and that in order for Sugar to grow, it would have to > become a community project, without extensive ties or dependencies on > any single company or organization. The Sugar Labs community is > expanding. The downsizing of OLPC's engineering efforts, while > significant to OLPC deployments in the short term, is actually a > catalyst for a needed change. It compels the deployments to be more > self-sufficient and more interconnected. Indeed, one direct > consequence of the events of last week is the acceleration of plans > for local Sugar Labs around the world. A decentralize approach, where > engineering investments in support of Sugar and learning are made > locally, is one of our great strengths. > An example are the new efforts on the road to make a Local Lab in Brasil http://sugarlabs.org/go/Brasil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090113/e2b93f41/attachment.htm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 11:41:58 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:41:58 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2009-01-13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <242851610901130841qc1d346ya89bfa891020a1bd@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 17:26, Walter Bender wrote: > > 2. Meanwhile, we've all been busy this week, using FUDCon and XO Camp > as an opportunity to meet face to face with many of of colleagues. > Feature freeze Sugar 0.84 is at the end of this week and we have > already begun discussion about our goals for 0.86. The various Sugar > Labs community teams have been active. Christian Marc Schmidt > continues to make great progress on a new landing site for > [http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/betasite > sugarlabs.org]. The correct URL is http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com/projects/sugarlabs/betasite/ . Cheers, Tomeu From morgan.collett at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:42:50 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:42:50 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 20:05, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Btw, we are having this discussion in the development list, thus only > including geeks :p Yes, it's pure luck we haven't had "Sugarland: Frag and Grok" proposed yet... Regards Morgan From sj at laptop.org Tue Jan 13 11:53:50 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:53:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901130853j5753b758g93089892869e5609@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > I guess Bryan thinks of it as a play on "Mathland" (in Papert's sense, > not the curriculum of the same name). The name of squeakland.org was > inspired by the same idea: > > "What would happen if children who can't do math grew up in Mathland, > a place that is to math what France is to French?" --S.P. SP means 'what Frenchland is to French', right? I grew up near Sugarland, and visited it regularly. It still makes me think of rotting teeth and nothing wholesome. > Also see > > http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html yes... a great project to discuss, actually. From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 12:02:53 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:02:53 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > I am puzzled, though; are these two things mutually exclusive? In any > case, students will be proposing their own projects, as is usual with > GSoC; what we're talking about is kickstarting their proposal thinking > by listing known projects of the *type* they could take on (thought they > may think the listed projects are the most rewarding they could do, > that's fine as well), that SL developers themselves find interesting and > important. Understanding what's hard and what's important to a community > makes it far easier to join and participate in it, at least in my > experience. Few comments from a developer point of view: * Working on the core has surely an higher entry barrier, but I think we can lower it a lot by spending time with the students and guiding them through the process. I worked in the past with students which had basically no previous experience with Sugar and with most of the technologies it uses, and it worked out just fine. The difficulties are mostly about setting up the environment and about understanding what's the best way to solve the problems, and both can be addressed with good mentoring. * Having students work on projects which are success critical (but currently not taken by anyone) will be an incentive for mentors to spend more time and energies doing their work. As long as I get something which is critically useful to the project, I'm totally willing to spend a lot of time facilitating it. * Looking even beyond soc, imo the best projects to propose to contributors are those which are very relevant, reasonably well known and not blocking/taken. In mature projects those are very rare, but we have abundance of them in Sugar, they just need to be articulated. * If I try to think to the most successful soc projects we had in the last year, a bunch of them, perhaps most, have been hacking on "core". Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 12:10:14 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:10:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Mel Chua wrote: >> A gsoc program that does not >> support activity development or activity toolchains would be >> dramatically different. > > It would be quite different. Is this bad? OLPC, SL, and the software > projects they work on were also in a dramatically different state a year > ago. Can you help me understand your concerns with the current SL GSoC plan? Something which changed a lot is the availability of the core development team to mentor external people. We used to be on crazy deadlines and all focused on doing customer critical work because of our employment status. The top priority these days is on growing the team and obsolete ourself. Marco From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 12:18:23 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:18:23 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <242851610901090017g68c48cccufe8c5a80f3594608@mail.gmail.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> Message-ID: <242851610901130918g743d834jb5698a16785719ec@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 18:10, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Mel Chua wrote: >>> A gsoc program that does not >>> support activity development or activity toolchains would be >>> dramatically different. >> >> It would be quite different. Is this bad? OLPC, SL, and the software >> projects they work on were also in a dramatically different state a year >> ago. Can you help me understand your concerns with the current SL GSoC plan? > > Something which changed a lot is the availability of the core > development team to mentor external people. We used to be on crazy > deadlines and all focused on doing customer critical work because of > our employment status. The top priority these days is on growing the > team and obsolete ourself. These days I'm amazed at the amount of stuff I'm capable to do when I don't have to switch between building packages, waiting for builds to happen (or fail), testing images, attending meetings, keeping trac bureaucracy, etc In SugarLabs, if we can keep people focused on what they are good on, we are going to see a very efficient organization. Regards, Tomeu From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 12:21:55 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:21:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <242851610901130918g743d834jb5698a16785719ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <2bfaacdc0901090421m5bbacb4bm143e14bbd90e2b51@mail.gmail.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> <242851610901130918g743d834jb5698a16785719ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > These days I'm amazed at the amount of stuff I'm capable to do when I > don't have to switch between building packages, waiting for builds to > happen (or fail), testing images, attending meetings, keeping trac > bureaucracy, etc Hehehe I was talking with someone today about the amazing amount of stuff you are doing these days! It makes me feel a bit bad about my lack of productivity lately, but hey, I guess that means I'm almost managed to obsolete myself :) Marco From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 13 12:23:54 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:23:54 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <49677BEE.4090200@melchua.com> <4968C410.5050404@schampijer.de> <5396c0d10901101540p1e5b66car4a08bc656b5724da@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901121510o5459a281l18742f25f7f4a635@mail.gmail.com> <496C20F2.7000408@melchua.com> <242851610901130918g743d834jb5698a16785719ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901130923i792d8d46m7fe76ce5fec27f06@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 18:21, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> These days I'm amazed at the amount of stuff I'm capable to do when I >> don't have to switch between building packages, waiting for builds to >> happen (or fail), testing images, attending meetings, keeping trac >> bureaucracy, etc > > Hehehe I was talking with someone today about the amazing amount of > stuff you are doing these days! It makes me feel a bit bad about my > lack of productivity lately, but hey, I guess that means I'm almost > managed to obsolete myself :) Yeah, we can make turns in obsoleting each other in the team. Tomeu From bert at freudenbergs.de Tue Jan 13 12:41:18 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:41:18 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901130853j5753b758g93089892869e5609@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110134i65122c2xe0a62b5cf124cf4b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> <5396c0d10901130853j5753b758g93089892869e5609@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94B72C96-92F2-443C-BC2D-FB70CC9DB218@freudenbergs.de> On 13.01.2009, at 17:53, Samuel Klein wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> I guess Bryan thinks of it as a play on "Mathland" (in Papert's >> sense, >> not the curriculum of the same name). The name of squeakland.org was >> inspired by the same idea: >> >> "What would happen if children who can't do math grew up in Mathland, >> a place that is to math what France is to French?" --S.P. > > SP means 'what Frenchland is to French', right? If that was a joke I didn't get it. > I grew up near Sugarland, and visited it regularly. > It still makes me think of rotting teeth and nothing wholesome. > >> Also see >> >> http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html > > yes... a great project to discuss, actually. Indeed. Does anybody have contacts to them, to find out in more detail why it was canceled? - Bert - From bert at freudenbergs.de Tue Jan 13 12:49:30 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:49:30 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <948b197c0901130822i615d3ba5t3b9d702c7c28b933@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <61F72E56-C0A0-4FBD-8BE9-32E64C51A059@freudenbergs.de> <948b197c0901130822i615d3ba5t3b9d702c7c28b933@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13409F63-A8DF-40ED-B4E1-DAAC999EF4F1@freudenbergs.de> On 13.01.2009, at 17:22, Eben Eliason wrote: >>> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >>> project.svg. >> >> Interesting ... thanks for the archaeology :) >> >> Eben: see, I did remember correctly there was an icon for the >> document >> independent of the activity ;) > > Indeed. However, that one's not mine, and I wasn't aware of it. I > think it must have been copied before I or someone else (don't recall) > matched the Etoys icon to the spec. I just checked the file you > mention, and it clearly has a 75x75 pixel canvas, which is why it's > being scaled down. I see. So this is really really old, from before the icon dimensions were changed. Someone who understood the system back then must have taken the Etoys icon and checked it in as the mime type icon. Would make sense to upgrade it to the current icon now :) - Bert - From eben at laptop.org Tue Jan 13 13:14:13 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:14:13 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <13409F63-A8DF-40ED-B4E1-DAAC999EF4F1@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <61F72E56-C0A0-4FBD-8BE9-32E64C51A059@freudenbergs.de> <948b197c0901130822i615d3ba5t3b9d702c7c28b933@mail.gmail.com> <13409F63-A8DF-40ED-B4E1-DAAC999EF4F1@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <948b197c0901131014x6367973eqfcb04b853cd2fc69@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 13.01.2009, at 17:22, Eben Eliason wrote: > >>>> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >>>> project.svg. >>> >>> Interesting ... thanks for the archaeology :) >>> >>> Eben: see, I did remember correctly there was an icon for the >>> document >>> independent of the activity ;) >> >> Indeed. However, that one's not mine, and I wasn't aware of it. I >> think it must have been copied before I or someone else (don't recall) >> matched the Etoys icon to the spec. I just checked the file you >> mention, and it clearly has a 75x75 pixel canvas, which is why it's >> being scaled down. > > > I see. So this is really really old, from before the icon dimensions > were changed. Someone who understood the system back then must have > taken the Etoys icon and checked it in as the mime type icon. Would > make sense to upgrade it to the current icon now :) Right. From my understanding of the conversation, this needs to be updated within the bundle, right? This isn't something that should need to live in artwork. - Eben > - Bert - > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From bert at freudenbergs.de Tue Jan 13 13:24:16 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:24:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <948b197c0901131014x6367973eqfcb04b853cd2fc69@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <61F72E56-C0A0-4FBD-8BE9-32E64C51A059@freudenbergs.de> <948b197c0901130822i615d3ba5t3b9d702c7c28b933@mail.gmail.com> <13409F63-A8DF-40ED-B4E1-DAAC999EF4F1@freudenbergs.de> <948b197c0901131014x6367973eqfcb04b853cd2fc69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 13.01.2009, at 19:14, Eben Eliason wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Bert Freudenberg > wrote: >> >> On 13.01.2009, at 17:22, Eben Eliason wrote: >> >>>>> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >>>>> project.svg. >>>> >>>> Interesting ... thanks for the archaeology :) >>>> >>>> Eben: see, I did remember correctly there was an icon for the >>>> document >>>> independent of the activity ;) >>> >>> Indeed. However, that one's not mine, and I wasn't aware of it. I >>> think it must have been copied before I or someone else (don't >>> recall) >>> matched the Etoys icon to the spec. I just checked the file you >>> mention, and it clearly has a 75x75 pixel canvas, which is why it's >>> being scaled down. >> >> >> I see. So this is really really old, from before the icon dimensions >> were changed. Someone who understood the system back then must have >> taken the Etoys icon and checked it in as the mime type icon. Would >> make sense to upgrade it to the current icon now :) > > Right. From my understanding of the conversation, this needs to be > updated within the bundle, right? This isn't something that should > need to live in artwork. What's the precedence of icons in the system vs the bundle? - Bert - From prakhar at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 13 13:58:28 2009 From: prakhar at fedoraproject.org (Prakhar Agarwal) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:28:28 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: <94B72C96-92F2-443C-BC2D-FB70CC9DB218@freudenbergs.de> References: <1231614828.9029.7.camel@hitman> <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> <5396c0d10901130853j5753b758g93089892869e5609@mail.gmail.com> <94B72C96-92F2-443C-BC2D-FB70CC9DB218@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: I like this: "Sugar: Where kids Play and Learn" Can we setup a wiki page for this? it will help us to get more suggestions. something like: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_slogan Cheers! -- Prakhar Agarwal Linux User# 474643 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Prakhar "Life is the greatest teacher" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/f5150591/attachment.htm From martin at martindengler.com Tue Jan 13 14:53:39 2009 From: martin at martindengler.com (Martin Dengler) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:53:39 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] idea for Sugar slogan and name In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901110728o576d2b3g22a4d8defa2d0ff4@mail.gmail.com> <1231688589.7263.20.camel@hitman> <0CB9D2EB-9443-4F37-8BEF-AEA63E298716@talktalk.net> <242851610901111005qd540e8apdeb8798e5e93f2fd@mail.gmail.com> <1231728582.6999.3.camel@hitman> <7087c32a0901112136n358c812cmaff522c7f127c21f@mail.gmail.com> <850F3477-D391-43F7-BFAA-40ED1E3E78C0@freudenbergs.de> <5396c0d10901130853j5753b758g93089892869e5609@mail.gmail.com> <94B72C96-92F2-443C-BC2D-FB70CC9DB218@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <20090113195339.GA1214@ops-13.xades.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:28:28AM +0530, Prakhar Agarwal wrote: > I like this: > "Sugar: Where kids Play and Learn" The one thing that jars a bit is the "kids" - IIRC this is only AmEng[0] for "children" (as the primary meaning); in English its primary meaning is "young goat"[1] and they always look at us Americans a bit funny if we start talking about "my kid". Personally, "kids" sounds a bit too forced-folksy/-bonhomie. I preferred leaving the audience implied like some of the other proposals (IIRC one was "Sugar: a place to learn and play"), especially since we've always talked about the audience being potentially broader than "just" children[2]. > Can we setup a wiki page for this? it will help us to get more suggestions. > something like: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_slogan Looks like it's already at http://sugarlabs.org/go/MarketingTeam#Slogans . Martin 0. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmEng 1. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/kid 2. http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/63354.html , quoted: LI: The Sugar platform itself -- who should use it and what should they use it for? Bender: It was originally designed to support learning -- so anybody who's a learner. It's been more focused on younger children than older children, but I think that's going to change. I think that it's going to have more broad appeal over time as it matures and as it becomes more readily able to support a broader set of applications and activities [ . . .] I think there's a lot of appeal in a wholly different demographic, which is the elderly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090113/151e99b4/attachment.pgp From billkerr at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 19:29:41 2009 From: billkerr at gmail.com (Bill Kerr) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:59:41 +1030 Subject: [Sugar-devel] kusasa Message-ID: <5d2dce520901131629v1570bfe4nbc31f473fa243a5f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 13.01.2009, at 17:53, Samuel Klein wrote: > > >> Also see > >> > >> http://www.kusasa.org/background/mathland/mathland.html > > > > yes... a great project to discuss, actually. > > > Indeed. Does anybody have contacts to them, to find out in more detail > why it was canceled? http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/media-centre/press-releases/shuttleworth-foundation-cancels-kusasa-project struck me as an honest attempt to summarise the reasons some discussion at tom hoffman's blog last year: http://www.tuttlesvc.org/2008/10/kusasa-cancelled.html http://www.tuttlesvc.org/2008/10/thats-little-harsh.html Sadly if a project does require "advanced teacher skills" (which ought to be spelt out) it does often falter at that point - difficult to scale Papert proposed a new field of teacher training called humanistic computer studies, where: "In my vision of this field its professionals will need special combinations of competences. Apart from a foundation in scientific knowledge and technological skill they will need high degrees of psychological sensitivity and 'artistic' imagination. For the ones who will make the greatest social contribution will be those who know how to mold the computer into forms which people will love to use and in ways which will lead them on to enrichment and enhancement...." (from Solomon, p.133) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/964994f9/attachment.htm From simon at mungewell.org Tue Jan 13 20:35:46 2009 From: simon at mungewell.org (simon at mungewell.org) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:35:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Sugar-devel] Gdium.Com is launching the One Laptop Per Hacker program. Message-ID: <14381.68.147.1.71.1231896946.squirrel@host171.canaca.com> Donating laptops to worthy developer/developer projects. Might be of interest to the OLPC/Sugar crowd. http://www.gdium.com/group/58/home Machine has resonable specs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdium Mungewell. From dirakx at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 21:05:30 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:05:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] bounce moved to gitorious at SL Message-ID: Hello I've followed the instructions on http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC to have bounce on gitorious. http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/bounce cheers!. Rafael Ortiz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090113/f74da9f2/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 23:10:01 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:10:01 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status Message-ID: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> Awesome, thank you Rafael! Today I went through dev.laptop.org/git identifying those projects that contain Sugar activities. http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus Still remaining is to go through Activities/All (and code.google.com, personal sites, etc) and find those activities which do not have d.l.o repositories. The list is *massive*. I had no idea we had so many cool activities in various stages of development! The process of finding their authors and migrating them to SL will result in some great new software for Sugar. It will be a lot of work but I know the end result will be worth it. Best regards, Wade On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero wrote: > Hello > > I've followed the instructions on > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC > > to have bounce on gitorious. > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/bounce > > > cheers!. > Rafael Ortiz > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From dirakx at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 23:29:42 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:29:42 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Wade Thanks to you..there are too many people excited about the activity team. i'll keep helping :). the work is indeed massive! Rafael Ortiz On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Awesome, thank you Rafael! > > Today I went through dev.laptop.org/git identifying those projects > that contain Sugar activities. > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus > > Still remaining is to go through Activities/All (and code.google.com, > personal sites, etc) and find those activities which do not have d.l.o > repositories. > > The list is *massive*. I had no idea we had so many cool activities > in various stages of development! The process of finding their > authors and migrating them to SL will result in some great new > software for Sugar. It will be a lot of work but I know the end > result will be worth it. > > Best regards, > Wade > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero > wrote: > > Hello > > > > I've followed the instructions on > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC > > > > to have bounce on gitorious. > > > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/bounce > > > > > > cheers!. > > Rafael Ortiz > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090113/53b3700b/attachment.htm From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Wed Jan 14 00:11:40 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:11:40 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha Message-ID: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative activities. It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and algorithms under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers can spend more time on what they really care about. Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to find a multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by all means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask questions or read the code. As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a collaborative version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual dictionary. This required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also required two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total of 5 lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field shared synchronously across all instances. This activity will be released, pending further testing. Groupthink: Collab should be easy. - --Ben [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne =aS94 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: activity.py.patch Url: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/e4c3e1f8/attachment-0002.txt -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: pippy_app.py.patch Url: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/e4c3e1f8/attachment-0003.txt From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed Jan 14 00:27:05 2009 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:27:05 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Mitra's talk on hole in the wall Message-ID: <5fb387c70901132127i4495b368v644026ca5279ba59@mail.gmail.com> Just saw Sugata Mitra's talk at Lift (http://liftconference.com/) on the hole-in-the-wall experiment and the data they collected. Most impressive was the concept of self-organized learning that happened in these places. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html It goes against all the talk about teacher training, etc. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From cjb at laptop.org Wed Jan 14 00:33:20 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:33:20 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> (Benjamin M. Schwartz's message of "Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:11:40 -0500") References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hi Ben, > Groupthink: Collab should be easy. (from the patch): - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) + self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) .. wow, that *is* easy. And it's synchronous, so the text box is updated with each character press. You could also use this technique for Pippy's source code textbox, which would immediately turn it into a collaborative editor. (I don't care about collisions very much as long as everyone gets the same state; they can be resolved socially.) Now that we're excited, maybe you should let on what the blocker bugs are. :-) Could we sign you up for a quick XOCamp demo/talk? Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 14 01:14:23 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:14:23 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Gitorious groups Message-ID: Interesting comment by Johan on my blog: http://www.marcopg.org/2008/12/17/gitorious-switness/#comment-7 Yay! Marco From bert at freudenbergs.de Wed Jan 14 04:03:39 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:03:39 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> Message-ID: <32360724-0E32-4E97-81CC-60F8A88D611C@freudenbergs.de> The script looks good, except for the name mangling magic (which is a bit hard to understand because of mis-indentations). This wouldn't even work with your XO's language set to non-English (which the majority of XOs use). I would simply name the file "$object_id.sb". - Bert - On 14.01.2009, at 07:04, Philipp Kocher wrote: > Hi John > > Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot > the USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached > mimetypes.xml. It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. > > Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the > parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted (copy- > from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached > scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so > please give feedback. > > I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal > directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but > for opening project it should work fine. > > Best regards, > Philipp > > John Maloney wrote: >> Hi, Phillip. >> Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked >> at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out >> from them how to do this. >> I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. >> Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file >> similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be >> unnecessary? >> -- John >> On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: >>> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >>> > wrote: >>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put >>>>>>> into the >>>>>>> Journal >>>>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon >>>>>>> rather than the >>>>>>> generic document icon? >>>>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained >>>>>> here: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>>>> >>>>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file >>>>>> into the >>>>>> xdg mime database. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>>>> >>>>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp >>>>> had done. >>>> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >>>>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >>>>> downloading >>>>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - >>>>> why is that?) >>>> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the >>>> etoys >>>> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >>>> Regards, >>>> Tomeu >>> >>> Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. >>> However, the >>> mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I >>> just >>> had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to >>> "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity >>> dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that >>> feature. >>> Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. >>> >>> John, could you please make the following changes in the next >>> Scratch >>> version: >>> - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the >>> activity.info file >>> - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in >>> the >>> activity directory >>> >>> Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm >>> etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file >>> /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- >>> artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is >>> adding the file >>> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >>> project.svg. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Philipp >>> > > > > Scratch Project > > > > #!/bin/sh > # Author: Bert Freudenberg > # Modified by: John Maloney > # Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine > > echo "scratch-activity" > echo "$@" > > echo "$0" "$@" > echo > > # arguments are unordered, have to loop > args="" > while [ -n "$2" ] ; do > case "$1" in > -b | --bundle-id) bundle_id="$2" ; args="$args BUNDLE_ID > $2" ;; > -a | --activity-id) activity_id="$2" ; args="$args ACTIVITY_ID > $2";; > -o | --object-id) object_id="$2" ; args="$args OBJECT_ID > $2";; > -u | --uri) uri="$2" ; args="$args URI $2";; > *) echo unknown argument $1 $2 ;; > esac > shift;shift > done > > # really need bundle id and activity id > if [ -z "$bundle_id" -o -z "$activity_id" ] ; then > echo ERROR: bundle-id and activity-id arguments required > echo Aborting > exit 1 > fi > > # some debug output > echo launching $bundle_id instance $activity_id > [ -n "$object_id" ] && echo with journal obj $object_id > [ -n "$uri" ] && echo loading uri $uri > echo > > # do not crash on dbus errors > export DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0 > > if [ -n "$object_id" ] ; then > JOURNAL_DIR="$SUGAR_ACTIVITY_ROOT/data/Journal" > mkdir -p "$JOURNAL_DIR" > temp_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/temp.sb" > title=`copy-from-journal -o "$object_id" -m "$temp_filename" | grep > "title "` > # title is something like this for files downloaded from server: > # title -> File do_math_3.sb from http://schoolserver/Scratch/do_math_3.sb > . > # or like this if copied from USB flash drive: > # title -> do_math_3 > title=${title#*"title -> "} #cut off description > echo "title: $title" > > # workaround for copy-from-journal bug (adds another dot before > fileextension) > if [ -f "$JOURNAL_DIR/temp..sb" ] ; then > mv "$JOURNAL_DIR/temp..sb" "$temp_filename" > fi > > if [[ "$title" == File*from* ]] ; then # for files downloaded from > server > filename=${title#*"File "} #cut off head until "File " > filename=${filename%" from"*} #cut off tail from " from" > echo "filename: $filename" > full_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/$filename" > echo "full_filename: $full_filename" > mv "$temp_filename" "$full_filename" > else # for files from USB flash drive > full_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/$title.sb" > echo "full_filename: $full_filename" > mv "$temp_filename" "$full_filename" > fi > else > full_filename="" > fi > # run Squeak VM with Scratch image > exec /usr/bin/squeak \ > -vm-display-X11 \ > -swapbtn \ > -sugarBundleId $bundle_id \ > -sugarActivityId $activity_id \ > ScratchXO.image \ > "$full_filename" From dvanassche at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 07:42:32 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:42:32 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901140442k5424db55sc4f035a1d53625dd@mail.gmail.com> This sounds like a great foundation for a sugar framework... something that not only coders can get a feel for... kind Regards, David Van Assche On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Ben, > > > Groupthink: Collab should be easy. > > (from the patch): > - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) > + self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) > > .. wow, that *is* easy. And it's synchronous, so the text box is > updated with each character press. You could also use this technique > for Pippy's source code textbox, which would immediately turn it into a > collaborative editor. (I don't care about collisions very much as long > as everyone gets the same state; they can be resolved socially.) > > Now that we're excited, maybe you should let on what the blocker bugs > are. :-) > > Could we sign you up for a quick XOCamp demo/talk? > > Thanks! > > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 14 08:02:50 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:02:50 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> Hi Ben, can we use this on non-sugar pygtk apps? For example, could we use it to add collaboration features to Labyrinth (a pygtk app that we are reusing as a Sugar activity)? Or does it depend on Sugar in any way? If the data model supported sharing through telepathy tubes, I think that the upstream GNOME developers would be interested in helping us maintain this code. Regards, Tomeu On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 06:11, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative activities. > It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and algorithms > under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers can > spend more time on what they really care about. > > Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to find a > multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by all > means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask questions > or read the code. > > As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a collaborative > version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual dictionary. This > required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also required > two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total of 5 > lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field shared > synchronously across all instances. This activity will be released, > pending further testing. > > Groupthink: Collab should be easy. > > - --Ben > > [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU > rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne > =aS94 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --- activity.py.orig 2009-01-12 22:51:15.000000000 -0500 > +++ activity.py 2009-01-12 23:31:59.000000000 -0500 > @@ -1,9 +1,11 @@ > from sugar.activity import activity > > -class ViewSourceActivity(activity.Activity): > +from groupthink.sugar_tools import GroupActivity > + > +class ViewSourceActivity(GroupActivity): > """Activity subclass which handles the 'view source' key.""" > - def __init__(self, handle): > - super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle) > + def __init__(self, handle, service_name): > + super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle, service_name) > self.__source_object_id = None # XXX: persist this across invocations? > self.connect('key-press-event', self._key_press_cb) > def _key_press_cb(self, widget, event): > > --- pippy_app.py.orig 2009-01-13 23:37:25.000000000 -0500 > +++ pippy_app.py 2009-01-13 00:13:49.000000000 -0500 > @@ -28,6 +28,8 @@ > from sugar.activity.activity import ActivityToolbox, \ > get_bundle_path, get_bundle_name > > +import groupthink.gtk_tools > + > SERVICE = "org.laptop.Words" > IFACE = SERVICE > PATH = "/org/laptop/Words" > @@ -36,7 +38,7 @@ > """Words Activity as specified in activity.info""" > def __init__(self, handle): > """Set up the Words activity.""" > - super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle) > + super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle, SERVICE) > self._logger = logging.getLogger('words-activity') > > from sugar.graphics.menuitem import MenuItem > @@ -69,7 +71,8 @@ > label2 = gtk.Label("Translation") > > # Text entry box to enter word to be translated. > - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) > + self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) > + self.totranslate = self.cloud.totranslate > self.totranslate.connect("changed", self.totranslate_cb) > self.totranslate.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("Sans 14")) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Wed Jan 14 08:54:25 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 08:54:25 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <496DEE91.1070000@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chris Ball wrote: > .. wow, that *is* easy. Thank you! > Now that we're excited, maybe you should let on what the blocker bugs > are. :-) The best way I can put it is: I spent two hours fixing bug after bug before this use case worked. Any other codepath will probably need the same treatment. I'm really not a very good programmer, and there's not much in the way of a test suite. (That would be nice, some day.) > Could we sign you up for a quick XOCamp demo/talk? Unfortunately, it seems like its all scheduled during the work day. I'd feel a bit bad skipping work. - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklt7pEACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTbUACfS1yAyobwe9h5iCr9qRJ16APp 4LQAnRogo08FABOo2Dl2an4nO77494TB =ZzID -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dr at jones.dk Wed Jan 14 09:07:22 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:07:22 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Python-based window manager? Message-ID: <20090114140722.GF26337@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I believe there was some discussion earlier on regarding dealing with core X11 from Python. And regading the choice of window manager used for Sugar. Are you aware of python-xlib[1] and The Pointless Window Manager[2]? (no, I do not intend to hack together some proof of concept - I do packaging not coding, and just stumbled across a Debian update of these today). Kind regards, - Jonas [1] http://python-xlib.sourceforge.net/ [2] http://plwm.sourceforge.net/ - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklt8ZoACgkQn7DbMsAkQLg9hQCfS85ySDUwkJN4s6W9YSQmsUfK fVoAoIc2foDGYdLSAVDMa5F3+HwyY4KL =L5VK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Wed Jan 14 09:12:01 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:12:01 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496DF2B1.5090804@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > can we use this on non-sugar pygtk apps? Yes. Groupthink's only hard dependency is on dbus. It also has optional dependencies on Sugar and GTK. > For example, could we use it to add collaboration features to > Labyrinth (a pygtk app that we are reusing as a Sugar activity)? Or > does it depend on Sugar in any way? Groupthink provides a GroupActivity class which Sugar activities can subclass. GroupActivity contains all the boilerplate necessary to negotiate with Telepathy, acquire a tube, notify shared objects that sharing has occurred, etc. If you're not running Sugar then you have to somehow acquire a Telepathy D-Bus Tube on your own, but other than that Groupthink should be totally usable. > If the data model supported sharing through telepathy tubes, I think > that the upstream GNOME developers would be interested in helping us > maintain this code. I would certainly love any help in maintenance/development. I have no training and no experience in network algorithms or framework design, and I can think of many flaws in the current implementation that I don't really know how to fix. I do think that this concept could be useful outside of Sugar. - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklt8rEACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCaAuIKyek0ldnu91oxXkIBUJGI Fi8An06J9GfTXA4GPLArry+inUORPhrA =HtLM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ypod at MIT.EDU Fri Jan 9 01:53:42 2009 From: ypod at MIT.EDU (Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:53:42 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Cerebro v3.0: File sharing and buddy management made easy! Message-ID: <4966F476.7010704@mit.edu> Want to exchange files between your desktop and your XO laptop? It can't get any easier! In the latest version of Cerebro (currently 3.0.3) you will find simplified file sharing and buddy management. Just click on the buddy you want to send a file to and select a file to send! Screenshots are here: http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Example_GUI If you are a developer, there is detailed tutorial to do file sharing from Python prompt (!) here: http://cerebro.mit.edu/index.php/Documentation#Buddy_management Enjoy Pol -- Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos Graduate student Viral Communications MIT Media Lab Tel: +1 (617) 459-6058 http://www.mit.edu/~ypod/ From cass at skynet.be Wed Jan 7 05:57:23 2009 From: cass at skynet.be (Guillaume Desmottes) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:57:23 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes Message-ID: <1231325843.11228.17.camel@cass-lpt> Hi guys, I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! Basically this means that stream tubes will use a TCP connection (using SOCKS 5) to transfer their data instead of sending them through the server with IBB (base64 encoding). If the socks5 connection can't be established (because peers are on different NAT's for example) then Gabble will fallback to IBB. This should drastically improve stream tube performances and reduce server's band-with consumption. As all of this is pure Telepathy implementation details, activities using stream tubes (as Read) doesn't have to change a single line of their code to benefit of this improvement! Clients just have to upgrade their Gabble. Of course, there are probably bugs in the current implementation so it would be good if Sugar users could start to test it ASAP. We should observe the following results in these scenario: - old Gabble <-> new Gabble: continue to use IBB as before. - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on the same network: use sock5 connections (the transfer of the shared document in Read should be really faster) - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on different networks: try to use sock5 and the fallback to IBB. This is the first step in our "improve tubes connectivity" plan and lead the way to new improvements as using a socks5 relay to transfer data if direct connection is impossible. The ultimate goal is to use jingle to benefit real NAT penetration (as in audio/video calls). Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you could have. Regards, G. [1] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/telepathy/2009-January/002734.html -- Guillaume Desmottes Jabber GPG 1024D/711E31B1 | 1B5A 1BA8 11AA F0F1 2169 E28A AC55 8671 711E 31B1 From sharon at laptop.org Fri Jan 9 11:40:25 2009 From: sharon at laptop.org (Sharon Lally) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:40:25 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [OLPC-GSoC] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901081610x7461d256s14458039116ab32c@mail.gmail.com> References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <5396c0d10901081610x7461d256s14458039116ab32c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: SJ, it sounds like a good plan....but OLPC/1CC had problems retaining mentors last year, so make sure not to over-commit. The remaining OLPC staff may not have time to mentor. Sharon On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > I'm copying our own gsoc list, and glad to clarify how this should work. > > I mentioned to Leslie yesterday that I expected SugarLabs and OLPC > might have separate GSOC projects this year. Someone representing SL > should write and formally get on their list of supported > organizations. [note: this requires tax/ID information for SL] > > OLPC is interested in participating in GSOC this year... some of the > projects I imagine would be activities or software for creation that > would work particularly with the XO's hardware, or would help needs in > OLPC deployments. > > It would be alright for both SugarLabs and OLPC to have people working > on code that could be integrated into Sugar (note the different > activity-development and python coding that was done both as an OLPC > SoC project and via other orgs who wanted their projects to be useful > to OLPC as an audience). It is also possible to submit an application > to more than one organization. > > I recommend noting in our organization descriptions (and definition of > what we are looking for) that people who want to develop tools and > features for Sugar should apply to SL, and people who want to develop > things specifically for OLPC deployments, or other software puzzles > specific to XOs, should apply to OLPC. > > I would encourage most activity developers and activity mentors to > tackle SoC projects under sugarlabs... > > SJ > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ed McNierney wrote: > > Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? > > > > Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of > > OLPC's previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to > > presume that OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't > > know of any active ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would > > strongly encourage Sugar Labs ideas, however - to Ben's point, there > > should be no confusion. The only things I could imagine (and it's > > just imagining) coming from OLPC would be ancillary ideas (school > > server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from XO/Sugar software. > > Go for it! > > > > - Ed > > > > > > On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso > >> wrote: > >>> We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots > >>> based on their well behaviour in past editions. > >> > >> To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their > >> poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only > >> received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. > >> > >> Wade > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sugar-devel mailing list > >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Gsoc mailing list > Gsoc at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/gsoc > -- Sharon Lally Director, Human Resources One Laptop Per Child 617.452.5680 sharon at laptop.org www.laptop.org Give a Laptop. Get a Laptop. Change the world! Visit http://www.laptop.org/en/ for more information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/ca8f5c5a/attachment-0001.htm From alexlevenson at laptop.org Fri Jan 9 14:15:27 2009 From: alexlevenson at laptop.org (Alex Levenson) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:15:27 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [OLPC-GSoC] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <5396c0d10901081610x7461d256s14458039116ab32c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Don't forget community mentors! On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Sharon Lally wrote: > > SJ, it sounds like a good plan....but OLPC/1CC had problems retaining > mentors last year, so make sure not to over-commit. The remaining OLPC > staff may not have time to mentor. > Sharon > > > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > >> I'm copying our own gsoc list, and glad to clarify how this should work. >> >> I mentioned to Leslie yesterday that I expected SugarLabs and OLPC >> might have separate GSOC projects this year. Someone representing SL >> should write and formally get on their list of supported >> organizations. [note: this requires tax/ID information for SL] >> >> OLPC is interested in participating in GSOC this year... some of the >> projects I imagine would be activities or software for creation that >> would work particularly with the XO's hardware, or would help needs in >> OLPC deployments. >> >> It would be alright for both SugarLabs and OLPC to have people working >> on code that could be integrated into Sugar (note the different >> activity-development and python coding that was done both as an OLPC >> SoC project and via other orgs who wanted their projects to be useful >> to OLPC as an audience). It is also possible to submit an application >> to more than one organization. >> >> I recommend noting in our organization descriptions (and definition of >> what we are looking for) that people who want to develop tools and >> features for Sugar should apply to SL, and people who want to develop >> things specifically for OLPC deployments, or other software puzzles >> specific to XOs, should apply to OLPC. >> >> I would encourage most activity developers and activity mentors to >> tackle SoC projects under sugarlabs... >> >> SJ >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ed McNierney wrote: >> > Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? >> > >> > Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of >> > OLPC's previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to >> > presume that OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't >> > know of any active ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would >> > strongly encourage Sugar Labs ideas, however - to Ben's point, there >> > should be no confusion. The only things I could imagine (and it's >> > just imagining) coming from OLPC would be ancillary ideas (school >> > server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from XO/Sugar software. >> > Go for it! >> > >> > - Ed >> > >> > >> > On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> > >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso >> >> wrote: >> >>> We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots >> >>> based on their well behaviour in past editions. >> >> >> >> To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their >> >> poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only >> >> received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. >> >> >> >> Wade >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Gsoc mailing list >> Gsoc at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/gsoc >> > > > > -- > Sharon Lally > Director, Human Resources > One Laptop Per Child > 617.452.5680 > sharon at laptop.org > www.laptop.org > > > Give a Laptop. Get a Laptop. Change the world! Visit > http://www.laptop.org/en/ for more information. > > _______________________________________________ > Gsoc mailing list > Gsoc at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/gsoc > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/092bbaa9/attachment-0001.htm From sharon at laptop.org Fri Jan 9 17:59:51 2009 From: sharon at laptop.org (Sharon Lally) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:59:51 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [OLPC-GSoC] Fwd: Google Summer of Code 2009 is a go! In-Reply-To: References: <39c9373c-0085-4760-b28f-3b9a6868022e@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <4966646D.4090300@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901081250u154fb94fnaa0f17bed0c491be@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901081254s11f3271lbbd6474fa63c9d39@mail.gmail.com> <54C0BEC7-01D2-4742-8E6C-DB37232A98CD@laptop.org> <5396c0d10901081610x7461d256s14458039116ab32c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: We should never forget them. Good job folks. Sharon On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Alex Levenson wrote: > Don't forget community mentors! > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Sharon Lally wrote: > >> >> SJ, it sounds like a good plan....but OLPC/1CC had problems retaining >> mentors last year, so make sure not to over-commit. The remaining OLPC >> staff may not have time to mentor. >> Sharon >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: >> >>> I'm copying our own gsoc list, and glad to clarify how this should work. >>> >>> I mentioned to Leslie yesterday that I expected SugarLabs and OLPC >>> might have separate GSOC projects this year. Someone representing SL >>> should write and formally get on their list of supported >>> organizations. [note: this requires tax/ID information for SL] >>> >>> OLPC is interested in participating in GSOC this year... some of the >>> projects I imagine would be activities or software for creation that >>> would work particularly with the XO's hardware, or would help needs in >>> OLPC deployments. >>> >>> It would be alright for both SugarLabs and OLPC to have people working >>> on code that could be integrated into Sugar (note the different >>> activity-development and python coding that was done both as an OLPC >>> SoC project and via other orgs who wanted their projects to be useful >>> to OLPC as an audience). It is also possible to submit an application >>> to more than one organization. >>> >>> I recommend noting in our organization descriptions (and definition of >>> what we are looking for) that people who want to develop tools and >>> features for Sugar should apply to SL, and people who want to develop >>> things specifically for OLPC deployments, or other software puzzles >>> specific to XOs, should apply to OLPC. >>> >>> I would encourage most activity developers and activity mentors to >>> tackle SoC projects under sugarlabs... >>> >>> SJ >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Ed McNierney wrote: >>> > Yes, but in 2007 "they" were "us", no? >>> > >>> > Thanks, this is helpful information (I didn't know the status of >>> > OLPC's previous GSoC work). I don't see why there is any reason to >>> > presume that OLPC would NOT be interested in 2009 GSoC, but I don't >>> > know of any active ideas/proposals kicking around here. I would >>> > strongly encourage Sugar Labs ideas, however - to Ben's point, there >>> > should be no confusion. The only things I could imagine (and it's >>> > just imagining) coming from OLPC would be ancillary ideas (school >>> > server add-ons?) that would be quite distinct from XO/Sugar software. >>> > Go for it! >>> > >>> > - Ed >>> > >>> > >>> > On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>> > >>> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Tomeu Vizoso >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> We should take into account that organizations are assigned slots >>> >>> based on their well behaviour in past editions. >>> >> >>> >> To be clear, OLPC was put on GSoC 'probation' last year due to their >>> >> poor performance reporting on students' work in 2007. They only >>> >> received 4 slots despite hundreds of applications. >>> >> >>> >> Wade >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Sugar-devel mailing list >>> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gsoc mailing list >>> Gsoc at lists.laptop.org >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/gsoc >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sharon Lally >> Director, Human Resources >> One Laptop Per Child >> 617.452.5680 >> sharon at laptop.org >> www.laptop.org >> >> >> Give a Laptop. Get a Laptop. Change the world! Visit >> http://www.laptop.org/en/ for more information. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gsoc mailing list >> Gsoc at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/gsoc >> >> > -- Sharon Lally Director, Human Resources One Laptop Per Child 617.452.5680 sharon at laptop.org www.laptop.org Give a Laptop. Get a Laptop. Change the world! Visit http://www.laptop.org/en/ for more information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090109/00d384f9/attachment-0001.htm From bcjordan at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 17:30:12 2009 From: bcjordan at gmail.com (Brian Jordan) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:30:12 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2bcfd3d60901101430i393b5c33i6ff4630211b721fc@mail.gmail.com> +1! git commit -a iWOO collaborative development!:wq git push On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. > > Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity > development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers > are planning to do the same. > > SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, > but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are > essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. > > One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of > high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. > While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there > were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those > holes remain two years later. > > And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. > The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have > the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of > activities available for Sugar. > > We will: > 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. > 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. > 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature > ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. > 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure > activity developers are well supported. > 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities > are doing in the field. > > Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. > The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development > community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem > of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities > "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. > > Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the > idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate > that. > > Best, > Wade > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From mohitgenii at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 11:41:15 2009 From: mohitgenii at gmail.com (Mohit Taneja) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:11:15 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Testing] Testing summary - 10 January 2009 In-Reply-To: <242851610901110814g370eafb4o629c79493863080f@mail.gmail.com> References: <72d5c8fd0901091646q69b4e6d7mc9c61b023555c321@mail.gmail.com> <72d5c8fd0901091647pe36695fqac232e87c37ce4df@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901110814g370eafb4o629c79493863080f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Tomeu,I would definitely like to attend something like that. Regards, Mohit Taneja On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 06:31, Mohit Taneja wrote: > >> Food Force II > >> > >> Tested on 5 XOS, concept awesome and appropriate for developing > countries > >> (keep working on it please), takes a long time to load - uses a lot of > >> processing power so runs real slow, shares in neighbourbood view but > does > >> not collaborate. Usability - ignoring slowness, the edges of the screen > are > >> designed to move the user view of the village but the selection buttons > at > >> the bottom of the screen are within the scroll trigger zone so when > trying > >> to select it is scrolling. Would be good if there was a "where you are > now" > >> indicator on the map (for when you have scrolled away from the village). > >> Query - would speed increase if run from school server rather than > local? We > >> are extremely excited about this activity and look forward to seeing > this > >> improve. > > > > Hi, > > I would firstly like to thank you guys for your comments. > > Well definitely, I accept that moving the screen by making the mouse go > > towards the edges is a problem, one reaason being that the control > buttons > > are within their range also in some cases it leads to the frame being > showed > > when one takes the mouse pointer to a particular edge. We would work on > > making the requisite changes. > > Also, it would be great to show the exact location of the player on the > mini > > map (right hand side - middle ). > > And surely working on efficiency is always a priority. > > If the SugarLabs's activity team would like to schedule an irc session > about performance, I'd be glad to share the tricks I have learnt > during the last two years. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > > Regards, > > Mohit Taneja > > Developer > > Food Force II > > > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 6:17 AM, Tabitha Roder > > wrote: > >> > >> Hello > >> > >> Thanks to Ian Thomson for coming along and talking to everyone about > >> Oceania deployments. There were lots of fantastic talks today with a > diverse > >> group of people present. We are hoping to hear some kiwi's could be > >> volunteering in the Pacific Islands over the next few months - fingers > >> crossed funds can be found. > >> > >> Who came: Carl, Ian, Edward, Murray, Brenda, Callum, Uli, Jonathan, > Kaleb, > >> Joshhua, Aida, Tabitha, Aaron, Douglas, Queenie > >> > >> Food Force II > >> Tested on 5 XOS, concept awesome and appropriate for developing > countries > >> (keep working on it please), takes a long time to load - uses a lot of > >> processing power so runs real slow, shares in neighbourbood view but > does > >> not collaborate. Usability - ignoring slowness, the edges of the screen > are > >> designed to move the user view of the village but the selection buttons > at > >> the bottom of the screen are within the scroll trigger zone so when > trying > >> to select it is scrolling. Would be good if there was a "where you are > now" > >> indicator on the map (for when you have scrolled away from the village). > >> Query - would speed increase if run from school server rather than > local? We > >> are extremely excited about this activity and look forward to seeing > this > >> improve. > >> > >> Chat > >> Today we had bonjour chat on Ubuntu (pidgin on 8.10 and 8.4) talking to > >> the XOs without issue. Intiating a chat from Ubuntu to the XOs would pop > up > >> a chat icon, which clicking on would start a Chat application. However, > a OS > >> X macbook with (using ichat bonjour) could see the XO's, but would > return > >> the error message "Instant Message connection failed. The other person's > >> computer may not be reachable." Also, there is no way for an XO to > initiate > >> a chat, or see non-XO computers using the bonjour chat protocol. > >> > >> Plans for next couple of weeks - > >> Next Saturday 17 January - learn how to pull apart your XO and put it > back > >> together (thanks Callum, our resident expert in XO repairs) - at The > Cross > >> Tuesday 27 January - meet Walter Bender, SugarLabs founder - further > >> details to come but can say it will be at Catalyst offices in Willis > Street > >> One day soon - update from Andrew McMillan on OLPC presentations at > Linux > >> Conference (February?) > >> One day soon - Martin Langhoff update on School server and python for > >> sugar programming sessions (February?) > >> > >> Feel free to invite others. > >> > >> To keep up to date with what the New Zealand OLPC volunteers are doing, > >> subscribe to olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org by going to > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz > >> > >> Have a fantastic week! > >> > >> Kind regards > >> Tabitha Roder > >> > >> (64)21482229 > >> > >> Support OLPC G1G1 - laptop.org/xo > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Testing mailing list > >> Testing at lists.laptop.org > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/testing > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Richard Dawkins - "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so > > open-minded that our brains drop out." > > _______________________________________________ > > Testing mailing list > > Testing at lists.laptop.org > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/testing > > > > > -- Richard Dawkins - "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090111/26b3fe54/attachment-0001.htm From bcjordan at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 15:09:05 2009 From: bcjordan at gmail.com (Brian Jordan) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:09:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901121126l44cf08e0yf7abb52eaec369ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901121126l44cf08e0yf7abb52eaec369ff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2bcfd3d60901121209o27cd5c4ar3f455869a2dadde9@mail.gmail.com> Hey, On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hello again, > > If you would like to join the ActivityTeam, the Contact page at > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Contacts is available for you to > add your name. > > When adding your name to the list, please take a minute and decide how > you will contribute to the effort. Then, go over to the To Do List at > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/TODO and put your name down next > to something using four tildes (~~~~). > > A lot of tasks are as simple as moving a Git repository or making sure > activities have up to date tarballs for distribution. There are also > bigger tasks like helping to get activities.sugarlabs.org running or > taking up one of the High Impact tasks from the other thread. > (Pardon my inexperience with Gitorious) To become a contributor to an activity, is the suggested process (1) make account on Gitorious, (2) email owner of project directly, (3) wait to be added, (4) commit changes? What do you think about adding an active ActivityTeam coordinator to be an admin for each activity project, in case (3) takes a while? Or is there a global admin role that would allow for something like this? Over analyzing imaginary bottlenecks, Brian > Looking forward to seeing you there! > > -Wade > > PS - I'm hoping to make it down to XOcamp one evening this week, > either Tuesday or Wednesday. > > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Hi all, hope you are enjoying FUDcon. >> >> Given the recent events at OLPC, I'm planning to refocus my activity >> development efforts on SugarLabs. I imagine other activity developers >> are planning to do the same. >> >> SugarLabs is off to a great start getting packages into distributions, >> but I can't help noticing that the activities on the home page are >> essentially the same were shipped with OLPC build 650 back in 2007. >> >> One of the things that drew me to Sugar and OLPC was the promise of >> high quality, collaborative, constructivist educational software. >> While the initial activity set was good, it was also clear that there >> were large holes to be filled. For a variety reasons, many of those >> holes remain two years later. >> >> And that's why I'm proposing the creation of a SugarLabs ActivityTeam. >> The new team will be separate from the DevelopmentTeam, and will have >> the responsibility of maintaining and extending the suite of >> activities available for Sugar. >> >> We will: >> 1. Maintain and develop the current suite of Sugar activities. >> 2. Recruit and mentor activity developers from the community. >> 3. Collect, document and organize new activity and activity feature >> ideas from the EducationTeam, deployments and community. >> 4. Work with the DevelopmentTeam and the InfrastructureTeam to ensure >> activity developers are well supported. >> 5. Gather feedback with the DeploymentTeam about how Sugar activities >> are doing in the field. >> >> Until now, activity development has largely been an individual effort. >> The purpose of this proposal is to collect the activity development >> community into an effective team who can tackle the entire ecosystem >> of Sugar activities together. One result should be fewer activities >> "dropping off the radar" into lack of maintenance. >> >> Please respond with your feedback about the proposal. If you like the >> idea and would like to be part of the ATeam, feel free to indicate >> that. >> >> Best, >> Wade >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From philipp.kocher at gmx.net Tue Jan 13 00:55:42 2009 From: philipp.kocher at gmx.net (Philipp Kocher) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:55:42 +0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the >>>> Journal >>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather than the >>>> generic document icon? >>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >>> >>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>> >>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the >>> xdg mime database. >>> >>> I think that John is already trying this. >> >> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had done. > > I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. > >> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When downloading >> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why is that?) > > No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys > rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? > > Regards, > > Tomeu > Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that feature. Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch version: - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the activity.info file - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in the activity directory Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is adding the file /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. Regards, Philipp From jmaloney at media.mit.edu Tue Jan 13 07:30:36 2009 From: jmaloney at media.mit.edu (John Maloney) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:30:36 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> Message-ID: <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> Hi, Phillip. Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from them how to do this. I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? -- John On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: > Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >> wrote: >>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into >>>>> the >>>>> Journal >>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather >>>>> than the >>>>> generic document icon? >>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >>>> >>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>> >>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file >>>> into the >>>> xdg mime database. >>>> >>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>> >>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp >>> had done. >> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >>> downloading >>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why >>> is that?) >> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the >> etoys >> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >> Regards, >> Tomeu > > Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, > the > mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just > had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to > "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity > dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that > feature. > Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. > > John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch > version: > - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the > activity.info file > - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in the > activity directory > > Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm > etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file > /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- > artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is > adding the file > /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- > project.svg. > > Regards, > Philipp > From info at skierpage.com Wed Jan 14 06:05:59 2009 From: info at skierpage.com (S Page) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:05:59 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <496DC717.4090105@skierpage.com> Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero wrote: > Today I went through dev.laptop.org/git > identifying those projects > that contain Sugar activities. > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus > > Still remaining is to go through Activities/All (and code.google.com > , > personal sites, etc) and find those activities which do not have d.l.o > repositories. > > The list is *massive*. I had no idea we had so many cool activities > in various stages of development! I'm not sure what you're doing, but if you want activities... When the call went out for activities for 9.1.0 I put all the meta-lists of activities in That links to some interesting queries in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries : * 45 pages with a Devel status * 116 pages that appear to have an activity bundle * 310 pages in Category:Activities in the main namespace. and I'm sure there are more activities that lack a page on on wiki.laptop.org -- =S From charbax at charbax.com Wed Jan 14 00:43:55 2009 From: charbax at charbax.com (Charbax) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:43:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Olpc-open] Mitra's talk on hole in the wall In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901132127i4495b368v644026ca5279ba59@mail.gmail.com> References: <5fb387c70901132127i4495b368v644026ca5279ba59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32bca7340901132143m5bb24b5ck977a1dfb5f7963a0@mail.gmail.com> Hi, just wanted to say that i was there in Geneva at the Lift conference at Sugata Mitra's talk. I was filming video interviews for http://techvideoblog.com/category/lift/ I remember I approached Sugata Mitra after his talk to ask him what he thought about the OLPC project. I am not sure I understood what he had to say about OLPC or perhaps I just don't remember it clearly. But I think he wasn't totally enthusiastic about OLPC which I thought was weird. But I guess that he is researching some other angle on the problem. Anyways, I hoe that with Obama that OLPC can hurry up and fix all the worlds problems. Cause the Children are growing older without a much better education system that they deserve. And I am thinking the problem is not only in poor countries, although their problem obvisously is the biggest, I think that all Children in all countries are waiting for the school system to be made better. And that I think is using computers and the Internet in a clever way. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Just saw Sugata Mitra's talk at Lift (http://liftconference.com/) on > the hole-in-the-wall experiment and the data they collected. Most > impressive was the concept of self-organized learning that happened in > these places. > http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html > It goes against all the talk about teacher training, etc. > > Sameer > -- > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Information Systems > San Francisco State University > San Francisco CA 94132 USA > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ > _______________________________________________ > Olpc-open mailing list > Olpc-open at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-open > -- Charbax, Nicolas Charbonnier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/7167275a/attachment.htm From philipp.kocher at gmx.net Wed Jan 14 01:04:09 2009 From: philipp.kocher at gmx.net (Philipp Kocher) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:04:09 +0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> Message-ID: <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> Hi John Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot the USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached mimetypes.xml. It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted (copy-from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so please give feedback. I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but for opening project it should work fine. Best regards, Philipp John Maloney wrote: > Hi, Phillip. > > Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at > several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from > them how to do this. > > I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. > > Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar to > the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? > > -- John > > > On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: >> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >>> wrote: >>>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the >>>>>> Journal >>>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather >>>>>> than the >>>>>> generic document icon? >>>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >>>>> >>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>>> >>>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file into the >>>>> xdg mime database. >>>>> >>>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>>> >>>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp had >>>> done. >>> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >>>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >>>> downloading >>>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why >>>> is that?) >>> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys >>> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >>> Regards, >>> Tomeu >> >> Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, the >> mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just >> had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to >> "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity >> dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that >> feature. >> Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. >> >> John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch >> version: >> - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the >> activity.info file >> - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in the >> activity directory >> >> Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm >> etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file >> /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm >> sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is >> adding the file >> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. >> >> >> Regards, >> Philipp >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mimetypes.xml Type: text/xml Size: 262 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/2ae4b4b5/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: scratch-activity Url: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/2ae4b4b5/attachment.txt From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 11:26:29 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:26:29 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status In-Reply-To: <496DC717.4090105@skierpage.com> References: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> <496DC717.4090105@skierpage.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901140826k3212bcfdvb756e64fbf0e981d@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:05 AM, S Page wrote: > I'm not sure what you're doing, but if you want activities... > When the call went out for activities for 9.1.0 I put all the meta-lists of > activities in > > > That links to some interesting queries in > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries : > * 45 pages with a Devel status > * 116 pages that appear to have an activity bundle > * 310 pages in Category:Activities in the main namespace. > > and I'm sure there are more activities that lack a page on on > wiki.laptop.org Thanks, this is a great source of information. What we are trying to do is track down all the activities that have been written (or started) and then migrate them to SugarLabs infrastructure, with permission from their authors. At the same time we will encourage their authors to finish them, update them to work with recent builds, document them, make sure they can be packaged for non-XO distros, etc. -Wade -Wade From gary at garycmartin.com Wed Jan 14 12:23:42 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:23:42 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0F219FE7-B33F-43D3-91B1-6B7EF71E5E39@garycmartin.com> On 14 Jan 2009, at 13:02, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi Ben, > > can we use this on non-sugar pygtk apps? > > For example, could we use it to add collaboration features to > Labyrinth (a pygtk app that we are reusing as a Sugar activity)? Or > does it depend on Sugar in any way? Tomeu, FWIW I've tried multiple times to (politely) make contact with the original Labyrinth authors since Dec. Not a peep response from anyone, and the google mail list is dead (authorised posters only and no one is authorising any one new it seems). Don't hold out hope of upstream support ? I think there's a lot of code in the core that needing changing to improve UI and a lot of code we don't need to bundle (custom win NT support!?). I'm guessing upstreaming would work much better for a project with a well established code-base, and an active maintainer ? we seem to have neither. I'm happy to fork, and make it work its best for us under Sugar, so we have a solid activity. --G > If the data model supported sharing through telepathy tubes, I think > that the upstream GNOME developers would be interested in helping us > maintain this code. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 06:11, Benjamin M. Schwartz > wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative activities. >> It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and >> algorithms >> under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers can >> spend more time on what they really care about. >> >> Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to find a >> multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by all >> means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask >> questions >> or read the code. >> >> As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a >> collaborative >> version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual >> dictionary. This >> required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also >> required >> two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total >> of 5 >> lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field >> shared >> synchronously across all instances. This activity will be released, >> pending further testing. >> >> Groupthink: Collab should be easy. >> >> - --Ben >> >> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU >> rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne >> =aS94 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> --- activity.py.orig 2009-01-12 22:51:15.000000000 -0500 >> +++ activity.py 2009-01-12 23:31:59.000000000 -0500 >> @@ -1,9 +1,11 @@ >> from sugar.activity import activity >> >> -class ViewSourceActivity(activity.Activity): >> +from groupthink.sugar_tools import GroupActivity >> + >> +class ViewSourceActivity(GroupActivity): >> """Activity subclass which handles the 'view source' key.""" >> - def __init__(self, handle): >> - super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle) >> + def __init__(self, handle, service_name): >> + super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle, >> service_name) >> self.__source_object_id = None # XXX: persist this across >> invocations? >> self.connect('key-press-event', self._key_press_cb) >> def _key_press_cb(self, widget, event): >> >> --- pippy_app.py.orig 2009-01-13 23:37:25.000000000 -0500 >> +++ pippy_app.py 2009-01-13 00:13:49.000000000 -0500 >> @@ -28,6 +28,8 @@ >> from sugar.activity.activity import ActivityToolbox, \ >> get_bundle_path, get_bundle_name >> >> +import groupthink.gtk_tools >> + >> SERVICE = "org.laptop.Words" >> IFACE = SERVICE >> PATH = "/org/laptop/Words" >> @@ -36,7 +38,7 @@ >> """Words Activity as specified in activity.info""" >> def __init__(self, handle): >> """Set up the Words activity.""" >> - super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle) >> + super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle, SERVICE) >> self._logger = logging.getLogger('words-activity') >> >> from sugar.graphics.menuitem import MenuItem >> @@ -69,7 +71,8 @@ >> label2 = gtk.Label("Translation") >> >> # Text entry box to enter word to be translated. >> - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) >> + self.cloud.totranslate = >> groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) >> + self.totranslate = self.cloud.totranslate >> self.totranslate.connect("changed", self.totranslate_cb) >> self.totranslate.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("Sans 14")) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From geirea at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 12:33:23 2009 From: geirea at gmail.com (Gabriel Eirea) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:33:23 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901140826k3212bcfdvb756e64fbf0e981d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> <496DC717.4090105@skierpage.com> <7087c32a0901140826k3212bcfdvb756e64fbf0e981d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c866f940901140933w4f3270e6k6d305fdf23b335db@mail.gmail.com> Wade: I'm an activity developer with my code at dev.laptop.org. I'm a bit confused about this migration. Is it necessary to change the location for some reason? Is dev.laptop.org going to be killed? I believe the Activity Team is a wonderful idea but would like to have this point clarified. Thanks, Gabriel 2009/1/14 Wade Brainerd : > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:05 AM, S Page wrote: >> I'm not sure what you're doing, but if you want activities... >> When the call went out for activities for 9.1.0 I put all the meta-lists of >> activities in >> >> >> That links to some interesting queries in >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries : >> * 45 pages with a Devel status >> * 116 pages that appear to have an activity bundle >> * 310 pages in Category:Activities in the main namespace. >> >> and I'm sure there are more activities that lack a page on on >> wiki.laptop.org > > Thanks, this is a great source of information. > > What we are trying to do is track down all the activities that have > been written (or started) and then migrate them to SugarLabs > infrastructure, with permission from their authors. At the same time > we will encourage their authors to finish them, update them to work > with recent builds, document them, make sure they can be packaged for > non-XO distros, etc. > > -Wade > > -Wade > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 14 12:33:38 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:33:38 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <0F219FE7-B33F-43D3-91B1-6B7EF71E5E39@garycmartin.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> <0F219FE7-B33F-43D3-91B1-6B7EF71E5E39@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <242851610901140933p325b3e05yf5a9afd2e3313aac@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 18:23, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 14 Jan 2009, at 13:02, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> Hi Ben, >> >> can we use this on non-sugar pygtk apps? >> >> For example, could we use it to add collaboration features to >> Labyrinth (a pygtk app that we are reusing as a Sugar activity)? Or >> does it depend on Sugar in any way? > > Tomeu, FWIW I've tried multiple times to (politely) make contact with the > original Labyrinth authors since Dec. Not a peep response from anyone, and > the google mail list is dead (authorised posters only and no one is > authorising any one new it seems). Don't hold out hope of upstream support ? > I think there's a lot of code in the core that needing changing to improve > UI and a lot of code we don't need to bundle (custom win NT support!?). I'm > guessing upstreaming would work much better for a project with a well > established code-base, and an active maintainer ? we seem to have neither. > > I'm happy to fork, and make it work its best for us under Sugar, so we have > a solid activity. Makes sense. What about keeping the old code or starting anew? Regards, Tomeu > --G > >> If the data model supported sharing through telepathy tubes, I think >> that the upstream GNOME developers would be interested in helping us >> maintain this code. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 06:11, Benjamin M. Schwartz >> wrote: >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative activities. >>> It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and algorithms >>> under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers can >>> spend more time on what they really care about. >>> >>> Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to find a >>> multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by all >>> means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask >>> questions >>> or read the code. >>> >>> As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a collaborative >>> version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual dictionary. >>> This >>> required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also required >>> two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total of 5 >>> lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field shared >>> synchronously across all instances. This activity will be released, >>> pending further testing. >>> >>> Groupthink: Collab should be easy. >>> >>> - --Ben >>> >>> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU >>> rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne >>> =aS94 >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> --- activity.py.orig 2009-01-12 22:51:15.000000000 -0500 >>> +++ activity.py 2009-01-12 23:31:59.000000000 -0500 >>> @@ -1,9 +1,11 @@ >>> from sugar.activity import activity >>> >>> -class ViewSourceActivity(activity.Activity): >>> +from groupthink.sugar_tools import GroupActivity >>> + >>> +class ViewSourceActivity(GroupActivity): >>> """Activity subclass which handles the 'view source' key.""" >>> - def __init__(self, handle): >>> - super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle) >>> + def __init__(self, handle, service_name): >>> + super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle, service_name) >>> self.__source_object_id = None # XXX: persist this across >>> invocations? >>> self.connect('key-press-event', self._key_press_cb) >>> def _key_press_cb(self, widget, event): >>> >>> --- pippy_app.py.orig 2009-01-13 23:37:25.000000000 -0500 >>> +++ pippy_app.py 2009-01-13 00:13:49.000000000 -0500 >>> @@ -28,6 +28,8 @@ >>> from sugar.activity.activity import ActivityToolbox, \ >>> get_bundle_path, get_bundle_name >>> >>> +import groupthink.gtk_tools >>> + >>> SERVICE = "org.laptop.Words" >>> IFACE = SERVICE >>> PATH = "/org/laptop/Words" >>> @@ -36,7 +38,7 @@ >>> """Words Activity as specified in activity.info""" >>> def __init__(self, handle): >>> """Set up the Words activity.""" >>> - super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle) >>> + super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle, SERVICE) >>> self._logger = logging.getLogger('words-activity') >>> >>> from sugar.graphics.menuitem import MenuItem >>> @@ -69,7 +71,8 @@ >>> label2 = gtk.Label("Translation") >>> >>> # Text entry box to enter word to be translated. >>> - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) >>> + self.cloud.totranslate = >>> groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) >>> + self.totranslate = self.cloud.totranslate >>> self.totranslate.connect("changed", self.totranslate_cb) >>> self.totranslate.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("Sans 14")) >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From ed at laptop.org Wed Jan 14 12:37:46 2009 From: ed at laptop.org (Ed McNierney) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:37:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Activities migration status In-Reply-To: <3c866f940901140933w4f3270e6k6d305fdf23b335db@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901132010u7faa93a7q588f41c84d5c661a@mail.gmail.com> <496DC717.4090105@skierpage.com> <7087c32a0901140826k3212bcfdvb756e64fbf0e981d@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901140933w4f3270e6k6d305fdf23b335db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <755CD107-DF7B-4DD6-A323-889B60AF68AC@laptop.org> Gabriel - No, there are no current plans to shut down any services on dev.laptop.org. OLPC has an 8.2.1 release underway and we'll continue to maintain those services in the future. On the other hand, anyone working on Sugar efforts such as Activity development should be encouraged to put all those efforts under the Sugar Labs roof where they can be more readily available to the entire Sugar community (not just the OLPC portion of it). The last paragraph of Wade's message (quoted below) described it very well. - Ed On Jan 14, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > Wade: > > I'm an activity developer with my code at dev.laptop.org. I'm a bit > confused about this migration. Is it necessary to change the location > for some reason? Is dev.laptop.org going to be killed? > > I believe the Activity Team is a wonderful idea but would like to have > this point clarified. > > Thanks, > > Gabriel > > > 2009/1/14 Wade Brainerd : >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:05 AM, S Page wrote: >>> I'm not sure what you're doing, but if you want activities... >>> When the call went out for activities for 9.1.0 I put all the meta- >>> lists of >>> activities in >>> >> > >>> >>> That links to some interesting queries in >>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_queries : >>> * 45 pages with a Devel status >>> * 116 pages that appear to have an activity bundle >>> * 310 pages in Category:Activities in the main namespace. >>> >>> and I'm sure there are more activities that lack a page on on >>> wiki.laptop.org >> >> Thanks, this is a great source of information. >> >> What we are trying to do is track down all the activities that have >> been written (or started) and then migrate them to SugarLabs >> infrastructure, with permission from their authors. At the same time >> we will encourage their authors to finish them, update them to work >> with recent builds, document them, make sure they can be packaged for >> non-XO distros, etc. >> >> -Wade >> >> -Wade >> _______________________________________________ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel From gary at garycmartin.com Wed Jan 14 12:54:42 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:54:42 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <242851610901140933p325b3e05yf5a9afd2e3313aac@mail.gmail.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> <0F219FE7-B33F-43D3-91B1-6B7EF71E5E39@garycmartin.com> <242851610901140933p325b3e05yf5a9afd2e3313aac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79CC2DA9-6570-4AE1-A115-82D4E92AF5C2@garycmartin.com> On 14 Jan 2009, at 17:33, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 18:23, Gary C Martin > wrote: >> On 14 Jan 2009, at 13:02, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> >>> Hi Ben, >>> >>> can we use this on non-sugar pygtk apps? >>> >>> For example, could we use it to add collaboration features to >>> Labyrinth (a pygtk app that we are reusing as a Sugar activity)? Or >>> does it depend on Sugar in any way? >> >> Tomeu, FWIW I've tried multiple times to (politely) make contact >> with the >> original Labyrinth authors since Dec. Not a peep response from >> anyone, and >> the google mail list is dead (authorised posters only and no one is >> authorising any one new it seems). Don't hold out hope of upstream >> support ? >> I think there's a lot of code in the core that needing changing to >> improve >> UI and a lot of code we don't need to bundle (custom win NT >> support!?). I'm >> guessing upstreaming would work much better for a project with a well >> established code-base, and an active maintainer ? we seem to have >> neither. >> >> I'm happy to fork, and make it work its best for us under Sugar, so >> we have >> a solid activity. > > Makes sense. What about keeping the old code or starting anew? For me, it'll be quicker to work with what's there already, trim it down to what we need, and tune it for Sugar (and specifically XO) use. Is there some FOSS political/religious baggage about forking like this that I've just trodden in? Or were you just hoping to engage upstream to do some of the work for Sugar support ;-) --G > Regards, > > Tomeu > >> --G >> >>> If the data model supported sharing through telepathy tubes, I think >>> that the upstream GNOME developers would be interested in helping us >>> maintain this code. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Tomeu >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 06:11, Benjamin M. Schwartz >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative >>>> activities. >>>> It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and >>>> algorithms >>>> under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers >>>> can >>>> spend more time on what they really care about. >>>> >>>> Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to >>>> find a >>>> multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by >>>> all >>>> means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask >>>> questions >>>> or read the code. >>>> >>>> As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a >>>> collaborative >>>> version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual >>>> dictionary. >>>> This >>>> required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also >>>> required >>>> two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total >>>> of 5 >>>> lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field >>>> shared >>>> synchronously across all instances. This activity will be >>>> released, >>>> pending further testing. >>>> >>>> Groupthink: Collab should be easy. >>>> >>>> - --Ben >>>> >>>> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) >>>> >>>> iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU >>>> rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne >>>> =aS94 >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> --- activity.py.orig 2009-01-12 22:51:15.000000000 -0500 >>>> +++ activity.py 2009-01-12 23:31:59.000000000 -0500 >>>> @@ -1,9 +1,11 @@ >>>> from sugar.activity import activity >>>> >>>> -class ViewSourceActivity(activity.Activity): >>>> +from groupthink.sugar_tools import GroupActivity >>>> + >>>> +class ViewSourceActivity(GroupActivity): >>>> """Activity subclass which handles the 'view source' key.""" >>>> - def __init__(self, handle): >>>> - super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle) >>>> + def __init__(self, handle, service_name): >>>> + super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle, >>>> service_name) >>>> self.__source_object_id = None # XXX: persist this across >>>> invocations? >>>> self.connect('key-press-event', self._key_press_cb) >>>> def _key_press_cb(self, widget, event): >>>> >>>> --- pippy_app.py.orig 2009-01-13 23:37:25.000000000 -0500 >>>> +++ pippy_app.py 2009-01-13 00:13:49.000000000 -0500 >>>> @@ -28,6 +28,8 @@ >>>> from sugar.activity.activity import ActivityToolbox, \ >>>> get_bundle_path, get_bundle_name >>>> >>>> +import groupthink.gtk_tools >>>> + >>>> SERVICE = "org.laptop.Words" >>>> IFACE = SERVICE >>>> PATH = "/org/laptop/Words" >>>> @@ -36,7 +38,7 @@ >>>> """Words Activity as specified in activity.info""" >>>> def __init__(self, handle): >>>> """Set up the Words activity.""" >>>> - super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle) >>>> + super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle, SERVICE) >>>> self._logger = logging.getLogger('words-activity') >>>> >>>> from sugar.graphics.menuitem import MenuItem >>>> @@ -69,7 +71,8 @@ >>>> label2 = gtk.Label("Translation") >>>> >>>> # Text entry box to enter word to be translated. >>>> - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) >>>> + self.cloud.totranslate = >>>> groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) >>>> + self.totranslate = self.cloud.totranslate >>>> self.totranslate.connect("changed", self.totranslate_cb) >>>> self.totranslate.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("Sans 14")) >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 14 12:56:13 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:56:13 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <79CC2DA9-6570-4AE1-A115-82D4E92AF5C2@garycmartin.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <242851610901140502ufc31b00qb8a89a8ab73fec60@mail.gmail.com> <0F219FE7-B33F-43D3-91B1-6B7EF71E5E39@garycmartin.com> <242851610901140933p325b3e05yf5a9afd2e3313aac@mail.gmail.com> <79CC2DA9-6570-4AE1-A115-82D4E92AF5C2@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <242851610901140956p1b78e2e5k9aa774260caf5e73@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 18:54, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 14 Jan 2009, at 17:33, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 18:23, Gary C Martin wrote: >>> >>> On 14 Jan 2009, at 13:02, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> >>>> can we use this on non-sugar pygtk apps? >>>> >>>> For example, could we use it to add collaboration features to >>>> Labyrinth (a pygtk app that we are reusing as a Sugar activity)? Or >>>> does it depend on Sugar in any way? >>> >>> Tomeu, FWIW I've tried multiple times to (politely) make contact with the >>> original Labyrinth authors since Dec. Not a peep response from anyone, >>> and >>> the google mail list is dead (authorised posters only and no one is >>> authorising any one new it seems). Don't hold out hope of upstream >>> support ? >>> I think there's a lot of code in the core that needing changing to >>> improve >>> UI and a lot of code we don't need to bundle (custom win NT support!?). >>> I'm >>> guessing upstreaming would work much better for a project with a well >>> established code-base, and an active maintainer ? we seem to have >>> neither. >>> >>> I'm happy to fork, and make it work its best for us under Sugar, so we >>> have >>> a solid activity. >> >> Makes sense. What about keeping the old code or starting anew? > > For me, it'll be quicker to work with what's there already, trim it down to > what we need, and tune it for Sugar (and specifically XO) use. Is there some > FOSS political/religious baggage about forking like this that I've just > trodden in? Or were you just hoping to engage upstream to do some of the > work for Sugar support ;-) The latter ;) Tomeu > >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> --G >>> >>>> If the data model supported sharing through telepathy tubes, I think >>>> that the upstream GNOME developers would be interested in helping us >>>> maintain this code. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Tomeu >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 06:11, Benjamin M. Schwartz >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>> >>>>> Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative activities. >>>>> It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and algorithms >>>>> under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers can >>>>> spend more time on what they really care about. >>>>> >>>>> Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to find a >>>>> multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by all >>>>> means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask >>>>> questions >>>>> or read the code. >>>>> >>>>> As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a >>>>> collaborative >>>>> version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual dictionary. >>>>> This >>>>> required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also >>>>> required >>>>> two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total of 5 >>>>> lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field shared >>>>> synchronously across all instances. This activity will be released, >>>>> pending further testing. >>>>> >>>>> Groupthink: Collab should be easy. >>>>> >>>>> - --Ben >>>>> >>>>> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> >>>>> iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU >>>>> rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne >>>>> =aS94 >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>> --- activity.py.orig 2009-01-12 22:51:15.000000000 -0500 >>>>> +++ activity.py 2009-01-12 23:31:59.000000000 -0500 >>>>> @@ -1,9 +1,11 @@ >>>>> from sugar.activity import activity >>>>> >>>>> -class ViewSourceActivity(activity.Activity): >>>>> +from groupthink.sugar_tools import GroupActivity >>>>> + >>>>> +class ViewSourceActivity(GroupActivity): >>>>> """Activity subclass which handles the 'view source' key.""" >>>>> - def __init__(self, handle): >>>>> - super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle) >>>>> + def __init__(self, handle, service_name): >>>>> + super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle, service_name) >>>>> self.__source_object_id = None # XXX: persist this across >>>>> invocations? >>>>> self.connect('key-press-event', self._key_press_cb) >>>>> def _key_press_cb(self, widget, event): >>>>> >>>>> --- pippy_app.py.orig 2009-01-13 23:37:25.000000000 -0500 >>>>> +++ pippy_app.py 2009-01-13 00:13:49.000000000 -0500 >>>>> @@ -28,6 +28,8 @@ >>>>> from sugar.activity.activity import ActivityToolbox, \ >>>>> get_bundle_path, get_bundle_name >>>>> >>>>> +import groupthink.gtk_tools >>>>> + >>>>> SERVICE = "org.laptop.Words" >>>>> IFACE = SERVICE >>>>> PATH = "/org/laptop/Words" >>>>> @@ -36,7 +38,7 @@ >>>>> """Words Activity as specified in activity.info""" >>>>> def __init__(self, handle): >>>>> """Set up the Words activity.""" >>>>> - super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle) >>>>> + super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle, SERVICE) >>>>> self._logger = logging.getLogger('words-activity') >>>>> >>>>> from sugar.graphics.menuitem import MenuItem >>>>> @@ -69,7 +71,8 @@ >>>>> label2 = gtk.Label("Translation") >>>>> >>>>> # Text entry box to enter word to be translated. >>>>> - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) >>>>> + self.cloud.totranslate = >>>>> groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) >>>>> + self.totranslate = self.cloud.totranslate >>>>> self.totranslate.connect("changed", self.totranslate_cb) >>>>> self.totranslate.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("Sans 14")) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> > > From morgan.collett at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 13:20:42 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:20:42 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: <1231325843.11228.17.camel@cass-lpt> References: <1231325843.11228.17.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:57, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: > Hi guys, > > I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a > long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! > > Basically this means that stream tubes will use a TCP connection (using > SOCKS 5) to transfer their data instead of sending them through the > server with IBB (base64 encoding). If the socks5 connection can't be > established (because peers are on different NAT's for example) then > Gabble will fallback to IBB. > This should drastically improve stream tube performances and reduce > server's band-with consumption. > > As all of this is pure Telepathy implementation details, activities > using stream tubes (as Read) doesn't have to change a single line of > their code to benefit of this improvement! Clients just have to upgrade > their Gabble. > > Of course, there are probably bugs in the current implementation so it > would be good if Sugar users could start to test it ASAP. > We should observe the following results in these scenario: > > - old Gabble <-> new Gabble: continue to use IBB as before. > - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on the same network: use sock5 connections > (the transfer of the shared document in Read should be really faster) > - new Gabble <-> new Gabble on different networks: try to use sock5 and > the fallback to IBB. > > This is the first step in our "improve tubes connectivity" plan and lead > the way to new improvements as using a socks5 relay to transfer data if > direct connection is impossible. The ultimate goal is to use jingle to > benefit real NAT penetration (as in audio/video calls). > > Please feel free to test this new version and report any problem you > could have. > > > Regards, > > > G. > > [1] > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/telepathy/2009-January/002734.html I want to add it to jhbuild, but on intrepid I get "Requested 'dbus-glib-1 >= 0.78' but version of dbus-glib is 0.76". Are we going to need to put a newer libdbus-glib-1 into jhbuild? Regards Morgan From guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk Wed Jan 14 13:40:22 2009 From: guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk (Guillaume Desmottes) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:40:22 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: References: <1231325843.11228.17.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: <1231958422.20549.706.camel@cass-lpt> Le mercredi 14 janvier 2009 ? 20:20 +0200, Morgan Collett a ?crit : > I want to add it to jhbuild, but on intrepid I get "Requested > 'dbus-glib-1 >= 0.78' but version of dbus-glib is 0.76". > > Are we going to need to put a newer libdbus-glib-1 into jhbuild? Probably, recent Gabble needs this new version. G. From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Wed Jan 14 14:12:41 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:12:41 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] p2p stream tubes In-Reply-To: <1231325843.11228.17.camel@cass-lpt> References: <1231325843.11228.17.camel@cass-lpt> Message-ID: <496E3929.6010602@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Guillaume Desmottes wrote: > I released telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 yesterday which implements a > long-awaited feature: peer to peer connections in stream tubes! That's fantastic! ... But of course we are never satisfied, so I must ask: how soon do you think Gabble will implement the new File Transfer spec? - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkluOSkACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQwHACeOFoDv2KKT+fFPzVq9liUjrWc 5cIAmQE1tJny0E2ye58+RA05d5X0lxyx =86pk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 14 16:15:38 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:15:38 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) Message-ID: I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions as our primary means of delivery, it makes sense to reduce the emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. Don't worry, developmentteam/jhbuild is alive and well for 'developer' use. thanks david From sj at laptop.org Wed Jan 14 16:24:47 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:24:47 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] XOCamp 2: Day 3 update Message-ID: <5396c0d10901141324jea9be40m669d1a272ba43f7@mail.gmail.com> Hello, We are currently talking about a string of technical topics : l10n, journal, performance/memory, power, and jffs/ubi --- through the end of the day. After this there will be a brief talk about digitizing and creating books from ed cherlin at 5. The post below has the latest information for joining in. SJ On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: > We've made a few schedule changes today, with talks about > customization, signing, and activation moved to later in the > afternoon, and a longer session on the school server through the > morning. > > http://blog.laptop.org/2009/01/12/xo-camp-on-tv/ > > Feel free to leave comments, questions and ideas on the schedule's > talkpage if you can't join in person. > > SJ > From luke at faraone.cc Wed Jan 14 16:49:39 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:49:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901141349je7fd4c1t1c0478118fe546a4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:15 PM, David Farning wrote: > I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the > developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) > > These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the > only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have > packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions > as our primary means of delivery, it makes sense to reduce the > emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. > > Don't worry, developmentteam/jhbuild is alive and well for 'developer' use. David, I don't see the justification in deleting these pages, they are still very useful for developers who need to get up and running. Those pages contained information about dependancies, etc that are different for each platform. Even if they were of questionable current usefulness, I'd rather keep things around and simply put a "deprecated" header over them, so that people who want the information can still see it. Deleting the content makes them invisible to all but administrators, which is, imho, a bad idea. I'm not going to revert your changes, but I disagree that these pages were not useful. They are in the same category as redirects like http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sugar_Labs/Meetings&action=edit&redlink=1, http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/index.php?title=OLE_Presentation&action=edit&redlink=1, http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/index.php?title=Presentations&action=edit&redlink=1, and http://sugarlabs.org/go/IRC. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/4f4665f5/attachment.htm From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 14 16:53:04 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:53:04 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901141349je7fd4c1t1c0478118fe546a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2eaf0c620901141349je7fd4c1t1c0478118fe546a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > David, > > I don't see the justification in deleting these pages, they are still very > useful for developers who need to get up and running. > > Those pages contained information about dependancies, etc that are different > for each platform. Personally I think those are just adding confusion. We should have automatic checks in jhbuild for all the distro we care about. Trying support the rest is a lost battle, because instructions will always be out of sync. Marco From sebastian at fuentelibre.org Wed Jan 14 18:37:08 2009 From: sebastian at fuentelibre.org (Sebastian Silva) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:37:08 -0300 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <289760090901141537g3b5ff80offe6b5ed45d2953d@mail.gmail.com> I love the API, great contribution Ben! I also love the name, Groupthink, from WikiPedia: "Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. Individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking are lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness, as are the advantages of reasonable balance in choice and thought that might normally be obtained by making decisions as a group.[1] During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the groups balance. The term is frequently used pejoratively, with hindsight." *Grin* Sebastian 2009/1/14 Benjamin M. Schwartz : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Groupthink [1] is a development toolkit for collaborative activities. > It's designed to hide all the collaboration boilerplate and algorithms > under a clean high-level abstraction, so that Activity developers can > spend more time on what they really care about. > > Groupthink is deeply pre-alpha. Any application is likely to find a > multitude of blocker bugs. If that is acceptable to you, then by all > means start your experiments. If you are interested, please ask questions > or read the code. > > As an example of the power of Groupthink, I have created a collaborative > version of Chris Ball's "Words" activity, a multilingual dictionary. This > required adding the groupthink library into the bundle. It also required > two patches, attached. Together, these patches represent a total of 5 > lines changed. The resulting activity has the main input field shared > synchronously across all instances. This activity will be released, > pending further testing. > > Groupthink: Collab should be easy. > > - --Ben > > [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/dobject;a=summary > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkltdAwACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQ80wCfa4f13gAvJQYcdkhdmefBPBuU > rYEAoJne2buq5hhC29/4ZFCdVvegBsne > =aS94 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > --- activity.py.orig 2009-01-12 22:51:15.000000000 -0500 > +++ activity.py 2009-01-12 23:31:59.000000000 -0500 > @@ -1,9 +1,11 @@ > from sugar.activity import activity > > -class ViewSourceActivity(activity.Activity): > +from groupthink.sugar_tools import GroupActivity > + > +class ViewSourceActivity(GroupActivity): > """Activity subclass which handles the 'view source' key.""" > - def __init__(self, handle): > - super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle) > + def __init__(self, handle, service_name): > + super(ViewSourceActivity, self).__init__(handle, service_name) > self.__source_object_id = None # XXX: persist this across invocations? > self.connect('key-press-event', self._key_press_cb) > def _key_press_cb(self, widget, event): > > --- pippy_app.py.orig 2009-01-13 23:37:25.000000000 -0500 > +++ pippy_app.py 2009-01-13 00:13:49.000000000 -0500 > @@ -28,6 +28,8 @@ > from sugar.activity.activity import ActivityToolbox, \ > get_bundle_path, get_bundle_name > > +import groupthink.gtk_tools > + > SERVICE = "org.laptop.Words" > IFACE = SERVICE > PATH = "/org/laptop/Words" > @@ -36,7 +38,7 @@ > """Words Activity as specified in activity.info""" > def __init__(self, handle): > """Set up the Words activity.""" > - super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle) > + super(WordsActivity, self).__init__(handle, SERVICE) > self._logger = logging.getLogger('words-activity') > > from sugar.graphics.menuitem import MenuItem > @@ -69,7 +71,8 @@ > label2 = gtk.Label("Translation") > > # Text entry box to enter word to be translated. > - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) > + self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) > + self.totranslate = self.cloud.totranslate > self.totranslate.connect("changed", self.totranslate_cb) > self.totranslate.modify_font(pango.FontDescription("Sans 14")) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Sebastian Silva Laboratorios FuenteLibre http://blog.sebastiansilva.com/ From martin at martindengler.com Wed Jan 14 18:59:13 2009 From: martin at martindengler.com (Martin Dengler) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:59:13 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <289760090901141537g3b5ff80offe6b5ed45d2953d@mail.gmail.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <289760090901141537g3b5ff80offe6b5ed45d2953d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090114235913.GM1214@ops-13.xades.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 08:37:08PM -0300, Sebastian Silva wrote: > I also love the name, Groupthink [...] *Grin* I love the irony of loving the ironic use of the pejorative name for an API that helps people exchange (by implication) different ideas. This kind of recursive irony (irony loop) is hilarious... > Sebastian Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/7866fdfd/attachment.pgp From martines at unimelb.edu.au Wed Jan 14 19:22:28 2009 From: martines at unimelb.edu.au (Martin Edmund Sevior) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:22:28 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> <8cc423ef0901140442k5424db55sc4f035a1d53625dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E93@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> Hi David, How do you solve "internet lag". User A puts a character "A" in position 10, then before user B see sees this (because of the finite propagation time), he puts character "B" in position 10? Who wins? You just have to make sure the the document remains the same for both users. Cheers! Martin -----Original Message----- From: sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org on behalf of David Van Assche Sent: Wed 1/14/2009 11:42 PM To: Chris Ball Cc: bens at alum.mit.edu; Sugar Devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha This sounds like a great foundation for a sugar framework... something that not only coders can get a feel for... kind Regards, David Van Assche On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Ben, > > > Groupthink: Collab should be easy. > > (from the patch): > - self.totranslate = gtk.Entry(max=50) > + self.cloud.totranslate = groupthink.gtk_tools.RecentEntry(max=50) > > .. wow, that *is* easy. And it's synchronous, so the text box is > updated with each character press. You could also use this technique > for Pippy's source code textbox, which would immediately turn it into a > collaborative editor. (I don't care about collisions very much as long > as everyone gets the same state; they can be resolved socially.) > > Now that we're excited, maybe you should let on what the blocker bugs > are. :-) > > Could we sign you up for a quick XOCamp demo/talk? > > Thanks! > > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > _______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090115/9592baf4/attachment.htm From caroline at meekshome.com Wed Jan 14 19:26:52 2009 From: caroline at meekshome.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:26:52 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <20090114235913.GM1214@ops-13.xades.com> References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <289760090901141537g3b5ff80offe6b5ed45d2953d@mail.gmail.com> <20090114235913.GM1214@ops-13.xades.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 08:37:08PM -0300, Sebastian Silva wrote: > > I also love the name, Groupthink [...] *Grin* > > I love the irony of loving the ironic use of the pejorative name for > an API that helps people exchange (by implication) different ideas. > This kind of recursive irony (irony loop) is hilarious... > +1 > > > Sebastian > > Martin > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/96c4394c/attachment.htm From lhospo at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 20:17:36 2009 From: lhospo at gmail.com (Leslie Hawthorn) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:17:36 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugarlabs and GSOC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4869cee70901141717p8b90721pd8931c2831893b6c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jameson, Pleasure to virtually meet you. And hello again to the fabulous Mel Chua. :) On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > Last year, OLPC handled the sugar educational environment in GSOC. This > year, that responsibility could be split. Sugarlabs, a more traditional > open-source government org, handles Sugar; and OLPC only in one platform > version of that, for Fedora on the XO. It is not clear to me what, if any, > interest in GSOC OLPC will have (they are undergoing some serious > belt-tightening right now, so it's not the best time to ask). Some of last > years' OLPC mentors for GSOC are now associated with Sugarlabs instead. > > LH, I've been delegated to ask you what implications that has for what > range of numbers of slots Sugarlabs might reasonably expect. It is > emphatically not our intention to take any slots from OLPC which OLPC can > legitimately use, but it is our impression that OLPC might have a lower > number of interesting applicants this year due to the much-smaller code base > that is still strictly "theirs". There are rumors that GSOC puts "new" > organizations at the end of the line for slots, and we hope that some of > OLPC's track record might rub off on us. In fact, we dare hope that, as a > less heierarchical organization than OLPC, we may actually do a better job > than they did with open source community tasks like GSOC. > This question is a bit premature, but enthusiasm is always appreciated. Assuming you are accepted as a mentoring organization, your number of student slots would be based on overall popularity as with all other organizations. There's full documentation available here that may be helpful to you: http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-student-allocations I look forward to reviewing your organization application. Cheers, LH -- Leslie Hawthorn Program Manager - Open Source Google Inc. http://code.google.com/opensource/ I blog here: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com - http://www.hawthornlandings.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090114/38f22831/attachment.htm From bryan at olenepal.org Wed Jan 14 21:33:28 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:33:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: References: <496D740C.8070902@fas.harvard.edu> <289760090901141537g3b5ff80offe6b5ed45d2953d@mail.gmail.com> <20090114235913.GM1214@ops-13.xades.com> Message-ID: <1231986808.7367.7.camel@hitman> I love any name that somehow reference directly or indirectly George Orwell's Classic 1984. I dont' know if 1984 ever used the term groupthink but it certainly coined the wonderful term "doublethink" :) On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 19:26 -0500, Caroline Meeks wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Martin Dengler > wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 08:37:08PM -0300, Sebastian Silva > wrote: > > I also love the name, Groupthink [...] *Grin* > > I love the irony of loving the ironic use of the pejorative > name for > an API that helps people exchange (by implication) different > ideas. > This kind of recursive irony (irony loop) is hilarious... > > +1 > > > > Sebastian > > Martin > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Wed Jan 14 23:25:46 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:25:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E93@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> <8cc423ef0901140442k5424db55sc4f035a1d53625dd@mail.gmail.com> <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E93@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <496EBACA.4070908@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: > How do you solve "internet lag". > > User A puts a character "A" in position 10, then before user B see sees this (because of the finite propagation time), he puts character "B" in position 10? > > Who wins? You just have to make sure the the document remains the same for both users. This is, indeed, the central problem. For the moment, the answer is: Groupthink does not support full documents, only short snippets of text. I have prototyped a data structure that I believe can coherently resolve these sorts of edit conflicts in long documents without any negotiation, but it remains to be seen if the design will work. In general, Groupthink's approach (described at length in docstrings in the code) is to write each data structure in such a way that any two users who have observed the same set of messages will arrive at the same state, regardless of the order in which those messages are received. The hard part is figuring out how to do this for each kind of data structure. However, once it is working, the code can be reused for many purposes without needing to understand how it works. - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkluuskACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQb2QCfXnSJHwZpn6Q/OsDSs8nJEb3x vWIAoIJYuSuEp8EFOeKynHDLctW2S5iq =Po5R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 15 04:01:53 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:01:53 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: References: <2eaf0c620901141349je7fd4c1t1c0478118fe546a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901150101j74b277f0k88e6de63e0f70aec@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 22:53, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: >> David, >> >> I don't see the justification in deleting these pages, they are still very >> useful for developers who need to get up and running. >> >> Those pages contained information about dependancies, etc that are different >> for each platform. > > Personally I think those are just adding confusion. We should have > automatic checks in jhbuild for all the distro we care about. Trying > support the rest is a lost battle, because instructions will always be > out of sync. What we could add are instructions for people to add more platforms to jhbuild sysdeps. Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 15 05:11:01 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:11:01 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Write moved to git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: <242851610901150211o5f1fbcfcka8cb5998a6a78a3a@mail.gmail.com> Hi, just moved this activity. Will update jhbuild next. Regards, Tomeu From morgan.collett at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 05:16:22 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:16:22 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] calculate broken in sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <242851610901130735w1448a90ah8de4d58d2d0b793d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090111130741.GA31484@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130330k2df84422q5120c8c266e7f74c@mail.gmail.com> <20090113131434.GB19716@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901130620w1747a4d6w46ba28d449c75ac1@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901130735w1448a90ah8de4d58d2d0b793d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 17:35, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Got it, I read your email backwards :) > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 16:30, Reinier Heeres wrote: >> Hi Tomeu, >> >> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 14:56, Reinier Heeres wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Things are getting a bit confusing I think. If git.sugarlabs.org is >>>> now the 'official' or maintained repo as seems to be the case (the >>>> calculate issue was fixed there already), could somebody >>>> (Marco/Tomeu?) push something to the sugar-jhbuild on dev.laptop.org >>>> to indicate this? >>> >>> Done. >> >> I don't see an indication at dev.laptop.org to point to >> git.sugarlabs.org? Thanks for updating the calculate source on >> git.sl.org though! > > Wonder what we could do other than removing it? Henry hardy isn't > working at OLPC any more, anyone knows who could remove the repo? cjb should be able to - he can admin crank.laptop.org. Regards Morgan From martin at martindengler.com Thu Jan 15 06:04:45 2009 From: martin at martindengler.com (Martin Dengler) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:04:45 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: References: <2eaf0c620901141349je7fd4c1t1c0478118fe546a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090115110445.GO1214@ops-13.xades.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 04:53:04PM -0500, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > > David, > > > > I don't see the justification in deleting these pages > > [1] they are still very > > useful for developers who need to get up and running. > > > > [2] Those pages contained information about dependancies, etc that > > are different for each platform. > > [1] Personally I think those are just adding confusion. > [2] We should have automatic checks in jhbuild for all the distro we > care about. I agree with both of these ideas (as someone who's used jhbuild and occasionally updated the fedora 8/9 instructions). > Marco Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090115/4e255ef6/attachment.pgp From bert at freudenbergs.de Thu Jan 15 07:56:17 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:56:17 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> <32360724-0E32-4E97-81CC-60F8A88D611C@freudenbergs.de> <496EF021.6090907@gmx.net> Message-ID: <7C0478E6-F765-45D1-920D-275A3B119145@freudenbergs.de> On 15.01.2009, at 13:55, John Maloney wrote: > Hi, Phillip. > > Re: >> There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the >> Project >> directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity >> folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and >> scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. > > In Scratch 11, a symbolic link was included in the .xo and unzipping > re-created that link. Someone else helped me create that mechanism > (sorry I can't quite remember who). But you are right, it no longer > works in v12, either because I changed something about my process > for creating the .xo file or perhaps because of a change in the XO > software (less likely). > > I will look into this. Unless someone fixed this in the mean time, symbolic links in bundles are not preserved: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4584 - Bert - From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 15 09:53:29 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:53:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Developers meeting today at 15.00 UTC Message-ID: <242851610901150653g14ed27f5i59c48dd0c7f4380c@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, we are going to meet in #sugar-meeting in a few minutes. Sorry about the short notice, feel free to add items to the agenda and we hope to see you there: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings#Thursday_January_15_2009_-_15.00_.28UTC.29 Regards, Tomeu From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 15 09:56:50 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:56:50 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild II Message-ID: As part of our push to become closer to our upstream, I have been rewriting sugar-jhbuild. The project started as an effort to make our buildbot cooler. During the process, it became apparent that several of the Sugar specif patches could be pushed upstream. It is ready for alpha testing. Download at git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/slo-buildbot/mainline.git sugar-jhbuild . All of the standard sugar-jhbuild instructions from http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild should work. Dependency checking and pylint check are not working yet:( david From mikus at bga.com Thu Jan 15 12:37:39 2009 From: mikus at bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:37:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) Message-ID: <496F7463.70708@bga.com> > I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the > developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) > > These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the > only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have > packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions > as our primary means of delivery, it makes sense to reduce the > emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. I am not currently a git user because git appears to not support a proxy (and to try to bypass that proxy I would need rewiring the place). But jhbuild looks like the principal alternative to my having to wait for someone to supply me with a binary for my XO. I am concerned that 1cc is now focusing on Windows (for instance, see what kind of tickets have recently been posted to laptop.org trac). Should binaries (with updated Sugar content) for the XO-1 platform cease to be available, would the jhbuild environment you envision be able to create a build for the XO-1 platform ? mikus From sayamindu at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 16:35:50 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:05:50 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Write moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: <242851610901150211o5f1fbcfcka8cb5998a6a78a3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901150211o5f1fbcfcka8cb5998a6a78a3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > just moved this activity. Will update jhbuild next. > You forgot Pootle :( ;-) -sdg- -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From bert at freudenbergs.de Thu Jan 15 17:51:25 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:51:25 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] etoys 4.0.2205 / Etoys-99 Message-ID: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Etoys/Etoys-99.tar.gz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/etoys/etoys-4.0.2205-2.tar.gz == Bundles == http://etoys.laptop.org/rpms/etoys-4.0.2205-2.noarch.rpm http://etoys.laptop.org/rpms/Etoys-99.xo == News == * offer full authoring-tools menu to all users * make Anthy based Japanese input work * add About flap on start screen * enable screen scaling a bit more eagerly * include icons for mimetypes - Bert (for the group) - From dirakx at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 19:49:57 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:49:57 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Write moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901150211o5f1fbcfcka8cb5998a6a78a3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all I've also changed the needed links on wiki.laptop.org to reflect this change of source location. :) Rafael Ortiz On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > > Hi, > > > > just moved this activity. Will update jhbuild next. > > > > You forgot Pootle :( > > ;-) > > -sdg- > > -- > Sayamindu Dasgupta > [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090115/ff7da18e/attachment.htm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 16 04:43:13 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:43:13 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Write moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901150211o5f1fbcfcka8cb5998a6a78a3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901160143l29e844b0wa2d8bb3874e4b9c4@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 22:35, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Hi, >> >> just moved this activity. Will update jhbuild next. >> > > You forgot Pootle :( > > ;-) I gave permissions to a bunch of people, including pootle, can you recheck? Thanks, Tomeu From morgan.collett at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 07:16:59 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:16:59 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Read-63 Message-ID: (release tool failed to upload as sunjammer path changed, sending this manually) == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/Read/Read-63.tar.bz2 == Bundle == http://dev.laptop.org/~morgan/bundles/Read-63.xo == Fixed tickets == * dev.laptop.org #7343: Enable a horizontal scroll bar * dev.laptop.org #2837: Imprement TOC navigation in Read (sayamindu) * #145: Prevent object chooser appearing when joining a shared session == NEWS == * Replace print with logging * Updated translations: mn, en_US, sv Regards Morgan From morgan.collett at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 07:25:52 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:25:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Chat-62 Message-ID: <20090116122552.309A720C1AA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Chat/Chat-62.tar.bz2 == Bundle == http://dev.laptop.org/~morgan/bundles/Chat-62.xo == NEWS == * use cjson instead of simple-json (nirbheek) * Updated translations: he, en_US, sv Regards Morgan From morgan.collett at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 07:42:01 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:42:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-presence-service-0.83.3 Message-ID: <20090116124201.CBD4B20C1AA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-presence-service/sugar-presence-service-0.83.3.tar.bz2 == Fixed tickets == * #142 Restart a server-based collaboration session / switch servers on the fly From morgan.collett at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 09:23:20 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 16:23:20 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam proposal In-Reply-To: <20090111085246.GA14040@antilopa-gnu> References: <7087c32a0901101046i3f8824d5w8ea763b814fa81df@mail.gmail.com> <20090110213415.GA12880@antilopa-gnu> <7087c32a0901101342n38738f92ub65e3538752d1b7d@mail.gmail.com> <20090111085246.GA14040@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: +1 to the Activities Team, I'm definitely interested. On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:52, Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 04:42:19PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Yep, once activities.sugarlabs.org is up and running (help wanted >> btw!) we should be able to keep this up to date. I hope to 'feature' >> orphaned activities from time to time to try to help get them picked >> up as well. >> >> Suggestions for which one to start with are welcome, I was thinking >> maybe 'Connect' since it was part of the initial Sugar vision. As the most recent maintainer of Connect, I think that would be great! > Does anybody know maintenance status of mamamedia/{cartoon-builder,flipsticks}? > Last commits were 14months ago. There are lack of COPYING files. They were supposed to be released under the GPL2 - the source files should have headers IIRC. I can pass on the original maintainer's details, or check with MaMaMedia if necessary. Regards Morgan From dr at jones.dk Fri Jan 16 14:51:10 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:51:10 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Please add Git references to bug tickets Message-ID: <20090116195110.GA26337@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Please include a reference to the actual Git commit when closing an issue ticket due to a code change. Example: Debian bug#511732[1] might be related to OLPC #8234[2] and thus sugar-toolkit Git commit a13ca6d[3]. But maybe not - as the Debian issue has been reported solved by a separate update to sugar-datastore[4]. Right now that issue ticket only tells that the issue is fixed, not how. Kind regards, Jonas [1] http://bugs.debian.org/511732 [2] http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8234 [3] http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-toolkit/repos/mainline/commits/a13ca6d [4] http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar-datastore.git;h=381e549 P.S. Hmmm - Would be nice if Sugarlabs could shorten the URL for Git commits below 72 chars (when using loose 7 char Git hash). - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAklw5S0ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLj1+gCfY9l1GjOG3NliiSgoJnXynQly rJ8AoJqR1duv/sIpQ5BBabK00v5KUgQH =+fiW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gary at garycmartin.com Fri Jan 16 20:16:54 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:16:54 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:34, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 12 Jan 2009, at 17:47, Wade Brainerd wrote: > >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved >> >> Missing images at the top. > > Can I put first dibs on making these images if no one else has started > yet? I'm thinking a set of simple Sugar activity iconic style. > > --G I defaulted to the usual "no response" == "just do it", so tis now done, hope you like :-) http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved Have vectors of all the originals if needed for revision, large versions, feedback tweaks ? just shout if you think could be useful elsewhere (I could upload pdfs of them for resolution independence). Also made the set in both (SL official logo) colours and black & white (with central character still in colour), but it doesn't look like MediaWiki supports image rollovers ? idea was to use B&W version by default, with full colour versions as mouse rollover. Any way, if you're curious about the B&W versions, I did still upload them to the wiki as well, just happened to go with the colour ones for current page (you can see the B&G variants in the wiki image gallery): http://sugarlabs.org/go/Special:NewImages Could switch sets if someone really objects to the full-on colour ;-) BTW: Any wiki guru know how to make an image link to an anchor/URL and not just jump to its own image page? Sounds so simple, but I couldn't find a single working example out their on the interwebs. --G >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems >> >> This page needs to be cleaned up. It's linked from the main page as >> 'Get sugar' but the organization of the page is very confusing. I >> think it should be a simple table of Platform -> Download page. Many >> of the sub-pages are stubs. Any volunteers to give this section a >> facelift? >> >> -Wade >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 16 20:31:58 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:31:58 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join might prove to be a good example:) david On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:34, Gary C Martin wrote: > >> On 12 Jan 2009, at 17:47, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved >>> >>> Missing images at the top. >> >> Can I put first dibs on making these images if no one else has started >> yet? I'm thinking a set of simple Sugar activity iconic style. >> >> --G > > I defaulted to the usual "no response" == "just do it", so tis now > done, hope you like :-) > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved > > Have vectors of all the originals if needed for revision, large > versions, feedback tweaks ? just shout if you think could be useful > elsewhere (I could upload pdfs of them for resolution independence). > > Also made the set in both (SL official logo) colours and black & white > (with central character still in colour), but it doesn't look like > MediaWiki supports image rollovers ? idea was to use B&W version by > default, with full colour versions as mouse rollover. Any way, if > you're curious about the B&W versions, I did still upload them to the > wiki as well, just happened to go with the colour ones for current > page (you can see the B&G variants in the wiki image gallery): > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Special:NewImages > > Could switch sets if someone really objects to the full-on colour ;-) > > BTW: Any wiki guru know how to make an image link to an anchor/URL and > not just jump to its own image page? Sounds so simple, but I couldn't > find a single working example out their on the interwebs. > > --G > >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems >>> >>> This page needs to be cleaned up. It's linked from the main page as >>> 'Get sugar' but the organization of the page is very confusing. I >>> think it should be a simple table of Platform -> Download page. Many >>> of the sub-pages are stubs. Any volunteers to give this section a >>> facelift? >>> >>> -Wade >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From gary at garycmartin.com Fri Jan 16 20:43:43 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:43:43 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <0249D1A6-1A86-4C71-93E2-2E79D9F56CFB@garycmartin.com> On 17 Jan 2009, at 01:31, David Farning wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join might prove to be a good example:) > > david Thanks David. Yea, been there, done that :-) You'll see I went with a number of similar designs/elements for some of the icons already (and just Sugar coated them). --G > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Gary C Martin > wrote: >> On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:34, Gary C Martin wrote: >> >>> On 12 Jan 2009, at 17:47, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>> >>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved >>>> >>>> Missing images at the top. >>> >>> Can I put first dibs on making these images if no one else has >>> started >>> yet? I'm thinking a set of simple Sugar activity iconic style. >>> >>> --G >> >> I defaulted to the usual "no response" == "just do it", so tis now >> done, hope you like :-) >> >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved >> >> Have vectors of all the originals if needed for revision, large >> versions, feedback tweaks ? just shout if you think could be useful >> elsewhere (I could upload pdfs of them for resolution independence). >> >> Also made the set in both (SL official logo) colours and black & >> white >> (with central character still in colour), but it doesn't look like >> MediaWiki supports image rollovers ? idea was to use B&W version by >> default, with full colour versions as mouse rollover. Any way, if >> you're curious about the B&W versions, I did still upload them to the >> wiki as well, just happened to go with the colour ones for current >> page (you can see the B&G variants in the wiki image gallery): >> >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Special:NewImages >> >> Could switch sets if someone really objects to the full-on colour ;-) >> >> BTW: Any wiki guru know how to make an image link to an anchor/URL >> and >> not just jump to its own image page? Sounds so simple, but I couldn't >> find a single working example out their on the interwebs. >> >> --G >> >>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems >>>> >>>> This page needs to be cleaned up. It's linked from the main page as >>>> 'Get sugar' but the organization of the page is very confusing. I >>>> think it should be a simple table of Platform -> Download page. >>>> Many >>>> of the sub-pages are stubs. Any volunteers to give this section a >>>> facelift? >>>> >>>> -Wade >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 17 04:29:18 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:29:18 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Memorize moved to git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: <4971A4EE.8050606@schampijer.de> Hey, i just moved memorize to the Sugar Labs repositories. Sayamindu, can you please point pootle to the new remote? Btw: I am still looking for developers and maintainers help for this cute little activity, one of the first that was available 2006, so Yeay! old school ;p I just got a request from oceania people that uses it to create new games. I really would like to keep working on this, but sugar itself is keeping me busy - so any help is appreciated. Thanks, Simon From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 05:31:11 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:31:11 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: <0249D1A6-1A86-4C71-93E2-2E79D9F56CFB@garycmartin.com> References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> <0249D1A6-1A86-4C71-93E2-2E79D9F56CFB@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <242851610901170231p454f5a9ao40fbd31fcbc0d62d@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:43, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jan 2009, at 01:31, David Farning wrote: > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join might prove to be a good example:) >> >> david > > Thanks David. Yea, been there, done that :-) You'll see I went with a > number of similar designs/elements for some of the icons already (and > just Sugar coated them). I think David meant that you can see how the fedora guys did the links, as they use media wiki as well. Loved the icons, congrats! Tomeu >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Gary C Martin >> wrote: >>> On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:34, Gary C Martin wrote: >>> >>>> On 12 Jan 2009, at 17:47, Wade Brainerd wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved >>>>> >>>>> Missing images at the top. >>>> >>>> Can I put first dibs on making these images if no one else has >>>> started >>>> yet? I'm thinking a set of simple Sugar activity iconic style. >>>> >>>> --G >>> >>> I defaulted to the usual "no response" == "just do it", so tis now >>> done, hope you like :-) >>> >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved >>> >>> Have vectors of all the originals if needed for revision, large >>> versions, feedback tweaks ? just shout if you think could be useful >>> elsewhere (I could upload pdfs of them for resolution independence). >>> >>> Also made the set in both (SL official logo) colours and black & >>> white >>> (with central character still in colour), but it doesn't look like >>> MediaWiki supports image rollovers ? idea was to use B&W version by >>> default, with full colour versions as mouse rollover. Any way, if >>> you're curious about the B&W versions, I did still upload them to the >>> wiki as well, just happened to go with the colour ones for current >>> page (you can see the B&G variants in the wiki image gallery): >>> >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Special:NewImages >>> >>> Could switch sets if someone really objects to the full-on colour ;-) >>> >>> BTW: Any wiki guru know how to make an image link to an anchor/URL >>> and >>> not just jump to its own image page? Sounds so simple, but I couldn't >>> find a single working example out their on the interwebs. >>> >>> --G >>> >>>>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems >>>>> >>>>> This page needs to be cleaned up. It's linked from the main page as >>>>> 'Get sugar' but the organization of the page is very confusing. I >>>>> think it should be a simple table of Platform -> Download page. >>>>> Many >>>>> of the sub-pages are stubs. Any volunteers to give this section a >>>>> facelift? >>>>> >>>>> -Wade >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 17 05:35:41 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:35:41 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: <0249D1A6-1A86-4C71-93E2-2E79D9F56CFB@garycmartin.com> References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> <0249D1A6-1A86-4C71-93E2-2E79D9F56CFB@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <4971B47D.5090605@schampijer.de> Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jan 2009, at 01:31, David Farning wrote: > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join might prove to be a good example:) >> >> david > > Thanks David. Yea, been there, done that :-) You'll see I went with a > number of similar designs/elements for some of the icons already (and > just Sugar coated them). > > --G Excellent - i like how you recomposed the activity icons. The globe in 'Web Developer or Administrator' could maybe be as well the Browse icon :) Thanks for that great work, Simon From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 06:49:20 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:49:20 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #1: icon cache Message-ID: <242851610901170349ude2a877k95a078c1b9c57eaa@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, as per the roadmap [0], yesterday was feature freeze, meaning that only bugfixes may be pushed without prior consultation. There's something that I hoped would make this release but that still hasn't been accepted: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8822 - Create an mmap'able icon cache Without this new feature, we have a limited size cache kept in memory. Meaning that icons need to be fully rendered the first time that are shown in the UI and that once we exceed the cache limit, we'll be doing very expensive computations at every UI redraw. Would like to hear opinions about having to commit it in this release or being able to wait for the next one. Thanks, Tomeu [0] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 07:09:54 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:09:54 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities Message-ID: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, yesterday we entered in feature freeze, meaning that no new features can be committed without prior discussion in the community. The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or meaning to the user. That's why has been proposed to make easier to the users to title and tag their entries by showing a dialog when they close their activity for the first time. We have now a quite crude implementation in, but is quite disconcerting to users because it's not very clear why is that appearing now. Simon is working on several enhancements that will make it clearer (Simon, can you paste a link to a screenshot?). What are people's opinion on this? Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 07:25:39 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:25:39 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default Message-ID: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> Hi, one more issue we should discuss is a modification that came in last week by which the favorites view in the home view displays the last entries for each activity and allows easy resuming. See Eben's designs in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Activity_Management . We are unsure about how mature is this UI change and if it should be deferred to a later release. Eben and Simon, can you comment on the concrete issues you see with the current implementation? Thanks, Tomeu From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 17 07:25:45 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:25:45 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4971CE49.8090903@schampijer.de> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi all, > > yesterday we entered in feature freeze, meaning that no new features > can be committed without prior discussion in the community. > > The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all > entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or > meaning to the user. > > That's why has been proposed to make easier to the users to title and > tag their entries by showing a dialog when they close their activity > for the first time. > > We have now a quite crude implementation in, but is quite > disconcerting to users because it's not very clear why is that > appearing now. > > Simon is working on several enhancements that will make it clearer > (Simon, can you paste a link to a screenshot?). Screenshot? People should be encouraged to imagine a bit not always consume! Nice spec can be found at http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/215 Cheers, Simon PS: will send screenshot soon :) From benjamin at sipsolutions.net Sat Jan 17 07:33:42 2009 From: benjamin at sipsolutions.net (Benjamin Berg) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:33:42 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #1: icon cache In-Reply-To: <242851610901170349ude2a877k95a078c1b9c57eaa@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170349ude2a877k95a078c1b9c57eaa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1232195622.4319.118.camel@benjamin> On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 12:49 +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8822 - Create an mmap'able icon cache > > Without this new feature, we have a limited size cache kept in memory. > Meaning that icons need to be fully rendered the first time that are > shown in the UI and that once we exceed the cache limit, we'll be > doing very expensive computations at every UI redraw. > > Would like to hear opinions about having to commit it in this release > or being able to wait for the next one. As the author of the patch, here some information on it (the ticket is pretty a bit loaded in some ways). Currently Sugar will keep the last 50 icons in the cache. Where each color combination needs to be cached separately. This is fast as long as there is a cache hit, but should you have a full friends and activities view for example, 50 icons will not be enough. The icon cache patch attached to the ticket, would change this completely. The cache will usually store two masks of each sugar icon at different sizes (works for every icon that only use the "stroke" and "fill" colours). With this data it is possible to draw any colour combination of an icon directly from the cache. Icons that contain more colors, will currently be redrawn each time. Advantages: * One mmaped cache, that is shared between activities (and file backed). * Cached icons work for *any* color combination Disadvantages: * If the correct size is not in the cache, the icon need to be scaled (This will happen with a relatively large number of icons in the activity ring view.) * Drawing speed from the cache is lower * Icon cache needs to be build/rebuild * On installation of sugar-artwork (for the icon theme) * On first startup * When activities are installed Benjamin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090117/9e08692b/attachment.pgp From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 08:00:23 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:00:23 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #1: icon cache In-Reply-To: <1232195622.4319.118.camel@benjamin> References: <242851610901170349ude2a877k95a078c1b9c57eaa@mail.gmail.com> <1232195622.4319.118.camel@benjamin> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Benjamin Berg wrote: > Advantages: > * One mmaped cache, that is shared between activities > (and file backed). > * Cached icons work for *any* color combination > > Disadvantages: > * If the correct size is not in the cache, the icon need to be scaled > (This will happen with a relatively large number of icons in the > activity ring view.) > * Drawing speed from the cache is lower > * Icon cache needs to be build/rebuild > * On installation of sugar-artwork (for the icon theme) > * On first startup > * When activities are installed My gut feeling is that this is not ready for 0.84. We haven't quite proved the user improvements brought by the new patch and the code is invasive enough to worry about landing it after the freeze. Just my $0.02 Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 08:02:50 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:02:50 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <4971CE49.8090903@schampijer.de> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <4971CE49.8090903@schampijer.de> Message-ID: My suggestion would be to keep developing it until we have something we are satisfied about from the user experience point of view. Then we can make a call about risk. If we complete in the next few days I'd expect it's something we will want to land. Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 08:04:06 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:04:06 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > one more issue we should discuss is a modification that came in last > week by which the favorites view in the home view displays the last > entries for each activity and allows easy resuming. See Eben's designs > in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Activity_Management . > > We are unsure about how mature is this UI change and if it should be > deferred to a later release. Eben and Simon, can you comment on the > concrete issues you see with the current implementation? If Eben is happy I think we should just land this asap and get it in 0.84. Marco From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 17 08:45:54 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:45:54 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > one more issue we should discuss is a modification that came in last > week by which the favorites view in the home view displays the last > entries for each activity and allows easy resuming. See Eben's designs > in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Activity_Management . > > We are unsure about how mature is this UI change and if it should be > deferred to a later release. Eben and Simon, can you comment on the > concrete issues you see with the current implementation? > > Thanks, > > Tomeu One addition is: This code is in git already, so we would need to take it out again (tomeu says that it is not complicated though). Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If you resume by default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose the undo functionality. This makes the need for a "Don't keep" option more important I think. Eben, so far did not confirm Tomeu's resume changes yet. Best, Simon From gary at garycmartin.com Sat Jan 17 08:47:02 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:47:02 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] wiki bugs In-Reply-To: <4971B47D.5090605@schampijer.de> References: <7087c32a0901120947k6f315d35uc2e37c41c7e52e9a@mail.gmail.com> <42C6F0BE-C2E4-4269-B3EC-583563649F50@garycmartin.com> <0249D1A6-1A86-4C71-93E2-2E79D9F56CFB@garycmartin.com> <4971B47D.5090605@schampijer.de> Message-ID: On 17 Jan 2009, at 10:35, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jan 2009, at 01:31, David Farning wrote: >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join might prove to be a good >>> example:) >>> >>> david >> Thanks David. Yea, been there, done that :-) You'll see I went with >> a number of similar designs/elements for some of the icons already >> (and just Sugar coated them). >> --G > > Excellent - i like how you recomposed the activity icons. The globe > in 'Web Developer or Administrator' could maybe be as well the > Browse icon :) Ooooh, good call! :-) Done. --G > > Thanks for that great work, > Simon From mikus at bga.com Sat Jan 17 09:39:16 2009 From: mikus at bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:39:16 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities Message-ID: <4971ED94.4090604@bga.com> > The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all > entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or > meaning to the user. What I cannot understand is why, after some two years of development, the only view of Journal entries that has been implemented is by "time sequence". If the user wants to pick something from among many entries of the same type (e.g., "audio"), he either has to look through them all, or has to remember an explicit "string" to search for. If the entries could optionally be 'sorted' (for instance, alphabetized), it would be easier to see "what is there and what is not". mikus From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 09:50:07 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:50:07 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <4971ED94.4090604@bga.com> References: <4971ED94.4090604@bga.com> Message-ID: <242851610901170650p459c9538yed77c93ee541c32c@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:39, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >> The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all >> entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or >> meaning to the user. > > What I cannot understand is why, after some two years of > development, the only view of Journal entries that has been > implemented is by "time sequence". We are waiting for your patches ;) > If the user wants to pick something from among many entries of the > same type (e.g., "audio"), he either has to look through them all, > or has to remember an explicit "string" to search for. If the > entries could optionally be 'sorted' (for instance, alphabetized), > it would be easier to see "what is there and what is not". I frankly don't see how sorting by name would help you there, but that feature is already planned, only that we haven't had nobody to work on it. Regards, Tomeu From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sat Jan 17 09:54:14 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:54:14 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If you > resume by default you could overwrite something you needed. So we > loose the undo functionality. That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning proposal, what happened to that one? CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090117/32d7fd5f/attachment-0001.pgp From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 10:30:51 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:30:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: > >> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If you resume by >> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose the undo >> functionality. > > That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning proposal, > what happened to that one? Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the user clicked on its icon in the journal. It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't gotten to implement it in something that can be released. So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which activities get stored in the journal. After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to delay for a few days the release in case we find that something can be done and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. If we find this is not possible given our schedule constraints, we will back this change out and revert to the old behaviour. Thanks, Tomeu From gary at garycmartin.com Sat Jan 17 11:07:18 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:07:18 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 17 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe > wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> >>> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If you >>> resume by >>> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose the >>> undo >>> functionality. >> >> That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning >> proposal, >> what happened to that one? > > Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now > resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the user > clicked on its icon in the journal. > > It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions > and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't gotten to > implement it in something that can be released. > > So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume > operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second > place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which activities > get stored in the journal. > > After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting > input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a > try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to delay > for a few days the release in case we find that something can be done > and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. FWIW: I'd love to give it a whirl and provide some feedback, unfortunately I only have access to Sugar on XO hardware ? so I'm out of such early test/debug/feedback loop until things land in Joyride (or some future equivalent). --G > If we find this is not possible given our schedule constraints, we > will back this change out and revert to the old behaviour. > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 17 11:32:57 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:32:57 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] favorite layouts Message-ID: <242851610901170832q7806fad8n206facc9b37c85d2@mail.gmail.com> Hi, was wondering what are people's opinions in uncommenting the favorite layouts that we already have in Sugar: LAYOUT_MAP = {RING_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.RingLayout, #BOX_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.BoxLayout, #TRIANGLE_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.TriangleLayout, #SUNFLOWER_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.SunflowerLayout, RANDOM_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.RandomLayout} Should we ship them enabled in the next release? Sadly, we missed moving them to be extensions: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/216 Regards, Tomeu From gary at garycmartin.com Sat Jan 17 12:41:13 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:41:13 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] favorite layouts In-Reply-To: <242851610901170832q7806fad8n206facc9b37c85d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170832q7806fad8n206facc9b37c85d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 17 Jan 2009, at 16:32, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > was wondering what are people's opinions in uncommenting the favorite > layouts that we already have in Sugar: > > LAYOUT_MAP = {RING_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.RingLayout, > #BOX_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.BoxLayout, > #TRIANGLE_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.TriangleLayout, > #SUNFLOWER_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.SunflowerLayout, > RANDOM_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.RandomLayout} SUNFLOWER is great, I find the other two have poor icon size logic (icons are too small), but are still OK if you have a low number of icons. I'd be happy to see them enabled. --Gary > > > Should we ship them enabled in the next release? > > Sadly, we missed moving them to be extensions: > http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/216 > > Regards, > > Tomeu > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sat Jan 17 12:59:33 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:59:33 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Memorize moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: <4971A4EE.8050606@schampijer.de> References: <4971A4EE.8050606@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090117175933.GA10003@antilopa-gnu> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 10:29:18AM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Hey, > > i just moved memorize to the Sugar Labs repositories. Sayamindu, can you > please point pootle to the new remote? > > Btw: I am still looking for developers and maintainers help for this > cute little activity, one of the first that was available 2006, so Yeay! > old school ;p > I just got a request from oceania people that uses it to create new > games. I really would like to keep working on this, but sugar itself is > keeping me busy - so any help is appreciated. I guess, me is at the top of wishful queue... could you add me(alsroot) to memorize's commiters and what about request -- Aleksey From dirakx at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 13:03:17 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:03:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] favorite layouts In-Reply-To: <242851610901170832q7806fad8n206facc9b37c85d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170832q7806fad8n206facc9b37c85d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree ;) Can we have the spiral views also enabled for the next release, along with BOX, TRIANGLE and SUNFLOWER ? Rafael Ortiz On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi, > > was wondering what are people's opinions in uncommenting the favorite > layouts that we already have in Sugar: > > LAYOUT_MAP = {RING_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.RingLayout, > #BOX_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.BoxLayout, > #TRIANGLE_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.TriangleLayout, > #SUNFLOWER_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.SunflowerLayout, > RANDOM_LAYOUT: favoriteslayout.RandomLayout} > > Should we ship them enabled in the next release? > > Sadly, we missed moving them to be extensions: > http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/216 > > Regards, > > Tomeu > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090117/fad06695/attachment.htm From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 17 13:24:49 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:24:49 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Memorize moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: <20090117175933.GA10003@antilopa-gnu> References: <4971A4EE.8050606@schampijer.de> <20090117175933.GA10003@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: <49722271.2040005@schampijer.de> Aleksey Lim wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 10:29:18AM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Hey, >> >> i just moved memorize to the Sugar Labs repositories. Sayamindu, can you >> please point pootle to the new remote? >> >> Btw: I am still looking for developers and maintainers help for this >> cute little activity, one of the first that was available 2006, so Yeay! >> old school ;p >> I just got a request from oceania people that uses it to create new >> games. I really would like to keep working on this, but sugar itself is >> keeping me busy - so any help is appreciated. > > I guess, me is at the top of wishful queue... > could you add me(alsroot) to memorize's commiters and what about request I added you to the committers list. But don't get too many tasks at once, even though your enthusiasm is highly appreciated :) I will move the memorize bugs from d.l.o to d.s.o in the upcoming days. Thanks, Simon From mikus at bga.com Sat Jan 17 13:50:43 2009 From: mikus at bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:50:43 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] favorite layouts Message-ID: <49722883.1040303@bga.com> > was wondering what are people's opinions in uncommenting the favorite > layouts that we already have in Sugar: How I currently cope is by having Ring layout show the Activities I use most frequently, and using 'Search' in List layout (I have many pages of entries there) for the less-frequently used ones. [In this regard, it works well to have the drop-down palettes on Ring icons allow removing unwanted icons that showed up in Ring.] > Sadly, we missed moving them to be extensions: I realize that people don't have leisure to document -- but from such a single sentence it is hard to fathom how the user's needs would be addressed. At least in 650, there was a file with activities listed on individual lines. I could use an editor to rearrange the lines to show what icons I wanted, in the order I wanted. Now with 2629 there is a file with a single record - the order of activities therein seems not to matter (and some activities appear therein multiple times) - I no longer know what to modify there to control icon order (dragging icons in Home View doesn't work). What I myself would like is for the *user* to have control over where the icons appear. [For those with many favorites, the sunflower (or spiral) layouts allowed more icons on screen than ring layout, while remaining attractive.] But it has never been clear to me how long (e.g., across updates?) the system would preserve the ordering that might have taken an user many minutes to arrange. mikus From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 17 16:29:16 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:29:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi all, > > yesterday we entered in feature freeze, meaning that no new features > can be committed without prior discussion in the community. > > The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all > entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or > meaning to the user. > > That's why has been proposed to make easier to the users to title and > tag their entries by showing a dialog when they close their activity > for the first time. > > We have now a quite crude implementation in, but is quite > disconcerting to users because it's not very clear why is that > appearing now. > > Simon is working on several enhancements that will make it clearer > (Simon, can you paste a link to a screenshot?). http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/215 contains patch and screenshot. Cheers, Simon From bernie at codewiz.org Sat Jan 17 16:47:30 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:47:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] location for common web files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497251F2.7040703@codewiz.org> David Farning wrote: > Where would be a good place to store files such as images and style > sheets which will be common across the various sl.o web sites? I used /var/www-sugarlabs/images on solarsail, but since few people have access there, maybe we should come up with a static.sugarlabs.org domain for shared static content and put it on sunjammer. How does it sound? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From walter.bender at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 19:43:40 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:43:40 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> Message-ID: Looks good. I am hoping that the description field will start to see more use, as I leverage it directly ion the Portfolio tool. One comment: I don't see the option to not save the entry. Another comment: maybe we should have a feature where by tags are also suggested, either by the activity or by tags previously assigned. -walter On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> yesterday we entered in feature freeze, meaning that no new features >> can be committed without prior discussion in the community. >> >> The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all >> entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or >> meaning to the user. >> >> That's why has been proposed to make easier to the users to title and >> tag their entries by showing a dialog when they close their activity >> for the first time. >> >> We have now a quite crude implementation in, but is quite >> disconcerting to users because it's not very clear why is that >> appearing now. >> >> Simon is working on several enhancements that will make it clearer >> (Simon, can you paste a link to a screenshot?). > > http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/215 contains patch and screenshot. > > Cheers, > Simon > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From walter.bender at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 19:50:37 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:50:37 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] favorite layouts In-Reply-To: <49722883.1040303@bga.com> References: <49722883.1040303@bga.com> Message-ID: I think Random is pretty useless. I have a spiral that I use--I'll submit the patch--that is pretty nice compromise between the sunflower and the circle. -walter On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >> was wondering what are people's opinions in uncommenting the favorite >> layouts that we already have in Sugar: > > How I currently cope is by having Ring layout show the Activities I > use most frequently, and using 'Search' in List layout (I have many > pages of entries there) for the less-frequently used ones. > > [In this regard, it works well to have the drop-down palettes on > Ring icons allow removing unwanted icons that showed up in Ring.] > > >> Sadly, we missed moving them to be extensions: > > I realize that people don't have leisure to document -- but from > such a single sentence it is hard to fathom how the user's needs > would be addressed. > > > At least in 650, there was a file with activities listed on > individual lines. I could use an editor to rearrange the lines to > show what icons I wanted, in the order I wanted. Now with 2629 > there is a file with a single record - the order of activities > therein seems not to matter (and some activities appear therein > multiple times) - I no longer know what to modify there to control > icon order (dragging icons in Home View doesn't work). > > > What I myself would like is for the *user* to have control over > where the icons appear. [For those with many favorites, the > sunflower (or spiral) layouts allowed more icons on screen than ring > layout, while remaining attractive.] But it has never been clear to > me how long (e.g., across updates?) the system would preserve the > ordering that might have taken an user many minutes to arrange. > > > mikus > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sat Jan 17 20:02:34 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:02:34 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] CartoonBuilder moved to git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: <20090118010234.GA15260@antilopa-gnu> Hi all, CartoonBuilder moved to git.sugarlabs.org -- Aleksey From alsroot at member.fsf.org Sat Jan 17 20:03:39 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:03:39 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Flipsticks moved to git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: <20090118010339.GB15260@antilopa-gnu> Hi all, Flipsticks moved to git.sugarlabs.org -- Aleksey From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 18 05:20:04 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:20:04 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Gdium.Com is launching the One Laptop Per Hacker program. In-Reply-To: <14381.68.147.1.71.1231896946.squirrel@host171.canaca.com> References: <14381.68.147.1.71.1231896946.squirrel@host171.canaca.com> Message-ID: <242851610901180220u3bc631e5yf925529a2403c08@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 02:35, wrote: > Donating laptops to worthy developer/developer projects. Might be of > interest to the OLPC/Sugar crowd. > http://www.gdium.com/group/58/home > > Machine has resonable specs: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdium Yeah, I expect many cheap machines to appear during 2009 with MIPS and ARM based processors. Mandriva is already running on the first models that appeared (including Gdium and Mobilis). Bernie ported Sugar to the Beagleboard, which has hardware similar to the Mobilis (OMAPx by TI) and Aleksey is already working on putting Sugar in the next release of Mandriva. So I trust Sugar is going to be very well supported on that category of machines ;) Regards, Tomeu From simon at schampijer.de Sun Jan 18 10:51:45 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:51:45 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49735011.5080504@schampijer.de> Walter Bender wrote: > Looks good. I am hoping that the description field will start to see > more use, as I leverage it directly ion the Portfolio tool. pushed to git now. One > comment: I don't see the option to not save the entry. Tomeu and myself decided that the 'don't keep' button does not make sense in the dialog. The argument was, that the entry is saved already. And don't keep would mean that the entry needed to be erased. With the added 'resume by default', we don't have the proliferation of useless entries we used to have. Happy to keep on arguig about it. Another > comment: maybe we should have a feature where by tags are also > suggested, either by the activity or by tags previously assigned. > > -walter Yeah, those tags could be generated based on content. In write or browse this looks like a quite logic thing to do. Thanks, Simon > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> yesterday we entered in feature freeze, meaning that no new features >>> can be committed without prior discussion in the community. >>> >>> The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all >>> entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or >>> meaning to the user. >>> >>> That's why has been proposed to make easier to the users to title and >>> tag their entries by showing a dialog when they close their activity >>> for the first time. >>> >>> We have now a quite crude implementation in, but is quite >>> disconcerting to users because it's not very clear why is that >>> appearing now. >>> >>> Simon is working on several enhancements that will make it clearer >>> (Simon, can you paste a link to a screenshot?). >> http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/215 contains patch and screenshot. >> >> Cheers, >> Simon >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > > > From shikhar at schmizz.net Sun Jan 18 11:22:07 2009 From: shikhar at schmizz.net (Shikhar) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:22:07 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] xomail moved to sugarlabs Message-ID: <4973572F.6090601@schmizz.net> Hi, I have moved the xomail repository over from OLPC (now called sweetmail). The last commit was over 4 months ago at which point the functionality that was in place was: - sending/receiving email - mail storage and tagging A lot of work is still to be done and I'm hopeful of finishing it and releasing an alpha in the coming weeks. Best, Shikhar From eben at laptop.org Sun Jan 18 12:20:29 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:20:29 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <49735011.5080504@schampijer.de> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> <49735011.5080504@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <948b197c0901180920r4eebdf27n78caa30e1be3fefe@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Walter Bender wrote: >> Looks good. I am hoping that the description field will start to see >> more use, as I leverage it directly ion the Portfolio tool. > > pushed to git now. > > One >> comment: I don't see the option to not save the entry. > > Tomeu and myself decided that the 'don't keep' button does not make > sense in the dialog. The argument was, that the entry is saved already. > And don't keep would mean that the entry needed to be erased. With the > added 'resume by default', we don't have the proliferation of useless > entries we used to have. > > Happy to keep on arguig about it. Honestly, I think we'll make a lot of people happier by offering this option. Additionally, the argument that the entry is saved already is strictly false in an experiential way (technical details and/or current implementation aside): The whole intent of this dialog is that it only appears when a given entry has /never/ been saved before. That is a) this entry was not resumed, b) this entry hasn't been manually kept, and c) this entry has not yet been named. This might mean that the creation of a Journal entry at the time an activity starts is a poor idea, since it doesn't reflect the desired paradigm. Of course, this issue has been confused in the past because it differs for "action" and "object" views. With the action/object split, we wouldn't create an object until a keep operation happened, though we would clearly have taken an action by starting an activity, regardless of whether or not we keep it. Finally, I want to convey again that the preferred model of the save/keep action includes the notion of tagged keeps. In this manner, an activity can be started (new), the activity can make any number of untagged keeps (autosaves) which the Journal (well, DS) silently keeps track of. Tagged keeps occur only when a) an activity is stopped (and kept), and b) when the keep button is explicitly pressed. The Journal exposes tagged keeps as versions (or separate entries, if we don't have versions?), and can also promote an untagged entry to a tagged one after an unexpected crash of either the activity or Sugar, so work is not lost. This model treats untagged keeps as hidden, so to the user, the entry has not yet been kept/saved when the first-time instance is stopped. > Another >> comment: maybe we should have a feature where by tags are also >> suggested, either by the activity or by tags previously assigned. Yes, absolutely. This is a really important aspect of this dialog, but one we may need to wait on to get right. I'd like to offer a separate field of tag suggestions below the tag field. This, really, requires a tokenized field (tags treated like buttons), so that one may simply click on the tags that apply to add them to the tags for the entry. We should be intelligently suggesting tags that the child has already used in the past, and perhaps also exposing some API so the activity can suggest tags as well. - Eben >> -walter > > Yeah, those tags could be generated based on content. In write or browse > this looks like a quite logic thing to do. > > Thanks, > Simon > >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> yesterday we entered in feature freeze, meaning that no new features >>>> can be committed without prior discussion in the community. >>>> >>>> The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all >>>> entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or >>>> meaning to the user. >>>> >>>> That's why has been proposed to make easier to the users to title and >>>> tag their entries by showing a dialog when they close their activity >>>> for the first time. >>>> >>>> We have now a quite crude implementation in, but is quite >>>> disconcerting to users because it's not very clear why is that >>>> appearing now. >>>> >>>> Simon is working on several enhancements that will make it clearer >>>> (Simon, can you paste a link to a screenshot?). >>> http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/215 contains patch and screenshot. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Simon >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From bobbypowers at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 12:53:53 2009 From: bobbypowers at gmail.com (Bobby Powers) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:53:53 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: <496F7463.70708@bga.com> References: <496F7463.70708@bga.com> Message-ID: <23e2e54b0901180953u3bad2ee7ya91db15ebdeee8fd@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >> I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the >> developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) >> >> These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the >> only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have >> packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions >> as our primary means of delivery, it makes sense to reduce the >> emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. > > I am not currently a git user because git appears to not support a > proxy (and to try to bypass that proxy I would need rewiring the > place). But jhbuild looks like the principal alternative to my > having to wait for someone to supply me with a binary for my XO. > > I am concerned that 1cc is now focusing on Windows (for instance, > see what kind of tickets have recently been posted to laptop.org > trac). Should binaries (with updated Sugar content) for the XO-1 > platform cease to be available, would the jhbuild environment you > envision be able to create a build for the XO-1 platform ? jhbuild just builds bleeding edge versions of Sugar and its dependencies from the git repositories. To create builds for the laptop you need a tool such as: puritan (fedora, m_stone's newish python build tool): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Puritan pilgrim (fedora, what most olpc builds are created using): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Pilgrim xodist (debian, used to make debxo): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/DebXO#Hacking rpmxo (similar to xodist for rpms): http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Erik_Garrison/rpmxo bobby > > mikus > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sun Jan 18 12:55:00 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:55:00 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <948b197c0901180920r4eebdf27n78caa30e1be3fefe@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> <49735011.5080504@schampijer.de> <948b197c0901180920r4eebdf27n78caa30e1be3fefe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090118175500.GE5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:20:29PM -0500, Eben Eliason wrote: ["Don't keep" option in Naming dialog that pops up when closing the activity] > Honestly, I think we'll make a lot of people happier by offering this > option. Please don't do this. The "Save/Discard" dialog that traditional applications show on close is a recipe for disaster. Please add an explicit "Discard" action to the activity menu instead. There's a paper (from a friend of mine) discussing this in detail, but unfortunately it's in german only currently. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090118/5e24c9a3/attachment.pgp From arjun at laptop.org Sun Jan 18 13:01:20 2009 From: arjun at laptop.org (Arjun Sarwal) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:31:20 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] xomail moved to sugarlabs In-Reply-To: <4973572F.6090601@schmizz.net> References: <4973572F.6090601@schmizz.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Shikhar wrote: > > Hi, > > I have moved the xomail repository over from OLPC (now called > sweetmail). The last commit was over 4 months ago at which point the > functionality that was in place was: > - sending/receiving email > - mail storage and tagging > Can you please point to where I could download a bundle(Alpha?) for trying out ? > A lot of work is still to be done and I'm hopeful of finishing it and > releasing an alpha in the coming weeks. > Cool, looking forward to it! cheers Arjun > Best, > > Shikhar > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Arjun Sarwal From eben at laptop.org Sun Jan 18 13:02:57 2009 From: eben at laptop.org (Eben Eliason) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:02:57 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <20090118175500.GE5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> <49735011.5080504@schampijer.de> <948b197c0901180920r4eebdf27n78caa30e1be3fefe@mail.gmail.com> <20090118175500.GE5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <948b197c0901181002w535588a0mef8210cb8dde8c95@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:20:29PM -0500, Eben Eliason wrote: > > ["Don't keep" option in Naming dialog that pops up when closing the > activity] >> >> Honestly, I think we'll make a lot of people happier by offering this >> option. > > Please don't do this. The "Save/Discard" dialog that traditional > applications show on close is a recipe for disaster. Please add an explicit > "Discard" action to the activity menu instead. > There's a paper (from a friend of mine) discussing this in detail, but > unfortunately it's in german only currently. Yes, you're actually right, and it's the reason Sugar was initially designed without the need for manual saving at all. You raise a good point. Perhaps we can add a secondary option to the "Stop" button for this instead, which forces a conscious decision before a dialog is needed. (This is fine, since the default is to keep automatically) How about "Stop and discard", or maybe just "Discard"? This has some implications, though, since it makes this option available all the time, instead of just for new instances. If you choose discard when you've previously resumed, what happens? The logical answer in "ideal Sugar" is that you simply discard changes, but retain any previous versions. Since we don't have versions, do we just discard changes, effectively reverting? Maybe "Discard changes" is a bettter description. - Eben > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSXNs9Lpz82VMF3DaAQL1NQgAjEcXfX99rIqVIezeGLHrvmQwjxuuiTm7 > oqtvChYqc+WuBgp3GLlOslQcTukhn20Jba/cjm2yewBrACj7Pa7gIY2n9dDpwgD3 > tPr8EWxg6+Pocuq1Yj+83AyPqepRkB0k8tsknMPRMWDl3rlpTsfTen0Db+F8SpP/ > 11+gVmut3frZFHlJQsNrWJ+QnL2/9PkXExlOLDFZbZ/TjzQ/PIzYymmWuVYC3Gct > iESLBTtGhXZS0ZhBqVqhzcmfcXsiqJ8f6JxTJEyMFJt4GhDzLjOFKQJjQbsYKmIK > sz5a9L4dw+FH/RWt0oS498VrmSYbPRXoO2UxhPEVvFj5eifZ6jebvA== > =K1m2 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sun Jan 18 13:03:34 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:03:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 04:30:51PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting > input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a > try. I'd like to, but still haven't got the sugar-jhbuild installation to work, neither on Debian lenny nor on Ubuntu hardy. It compiles fine now, but on lenny the emulator aborts (gconf Python module missing) and on hardy most activities don't start up. There are loads of tracebacks in the logs, including one complaining about "misc" missing in the journal module. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090118/b00a6664/attachment.pgp From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Sun Jan 18 13:33:20 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:33:20 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] feature freeze issue #2: making easier for people to title their activities In-Reply-To: <948b197c0901181002w535588a0mef8210cb8dde8c95@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170409o1856ba71t4a813ade6f0f077b@mail.gmail.com> <49724DAC.3090204@schampijer.de> <49735011.5080504@schampijer.de> <948b197c0901180920r4eebdf27n78caa30e1be3fefe@mail.gmail.com> <20090118175500.GE5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <948b197c0901181002w535588a0mef8210cb8dde8c95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090118183320.GH5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 01:02:57PM -0500, Eben Eliason wrote: [Close activity without saving changes] > Perhaps we can add a secondary option to the "Stop" button for > this instead, which forces a conscious decision before a dialog is > needed. (This is fine, since the default is to keep automatically) Interesting option, haven't thought about putting it into a submenu of Stop. Would reduce the danger of accidentally activating it. > How about "Stop and discard", or maybe just "Discard"? As it's a submenu of Stop, it might be obvious enough. But it might be better to ask a kid instead as I am "experienced" and thus prejudiced/biased. > This has some implications, though, since it makes this option > available all the time, instead of just for new instances. If you > choose discard when you've previously resumed, what happens? The > logical answer in "ideal Sugar" is that you simply discard changes, > but retain any previous versions. That's what I would expect to happen. > Since we don't have versions, do we just discard changes, effectively > reverting? Maybe "Discard changes" > is a bettter description. "Discard changes" sounds fine. We could name it differently if it's the first version, but I cannot think of a good term for that ("Discard changes" makes a simple "Discard" for the first version look like there's something missing). CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090118/76891da8/attachment.pgp From krstic at solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu Sun Jan 18 15:08:30 2009 From: krstic at solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Ivan_Krsti=C4=87?=) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:08:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] location for common web files In-Reply-To: <497251F2.7040703@codewiz.org> References: <497251F2.7040703@codewiz.org> Message-ID: On Jan 17, 2009, at 4:47 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > I used /var/www-sugarlabs/images on solarsail, but since few people > have access there, maybe we should come up with a > static.sugarlabs.org domain for shared static content and put it on > sunjammer. -1. Doing it that way means that sunjammer going down also makes solarsail's SL web services unusable. Each machine should have its own copies of the static files. -- Ivan Krsti? | http://radian.org From reinier at heeres.eu Sun Jan 18 15:24:27 2009 From: reinier at heeres.eu (Reinier Heeres) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:24:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Calculate-28 Message-ID: <20090118202427.6F8B320C1B5@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Calculate/Calculate-28.tar.bz2 == Bundle == http://people.sugarlabs.org/~rwh/Calculate/Calculate-28.xo == News == * Support 'real' scientific notation (#4250) * Add switching between exponential/scientific notation * Allow changing of number of displayed digits * Change cursor on equations to Hand (#6612) * Fix fall-through of unhandled CTRL keys (eg CTRL+Q) * Add recursion detection * Fixed error-handling bug == Notes == The repository has move to sugarlabs: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/calculate/ Regards, Reinier From echerlin at gmail.com Sun Jan 18 20:15:53 2009 From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:15:53 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM, David Farning wrote: > I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the > developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) > > These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the > only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have > packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions > as our primary means of delivery, But we cannot do that today. The Activity packages that exist have serious bugs, and most .xo bundles simply will not run on these other platforms in the packaged Sugar environments. Please put those pages back. I don't mind you asking us whether we need these pages, but I object to you deleting them without asking first. > it makes sense to reduce the > emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. > > Don't worry, developmentteam/jhbuild is alive and well for 'developer' use. Not really. We need as much information as possible about how jhbuild has been put on Ubuntu and other distros, in order to support building it on yet more distros. > thanks > david > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Silent Thunder (??/???????????????/????????????? ?) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai From martin at martindengler.com Mon Jan 19 04:46:33 2009 From: martin at martindengler.com (Martin Dengler) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:46:33 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090119094633.GE1214@ops-13.xades.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 05:15:53PM -0800, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM, David Farning wrote: > > I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the > > developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) > > > > These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the > > only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have > > packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions > > as our primary means of delivery, > > But we cannot do that today. David's "will be using" seems pretty consistent with your statement. > The Activity packages that exist have serious bugs, and most .xo > bundles simply will not run on these other platforms in the packaged > Sugar environments. Please put those pages back. I fail to see how those pages will help someone who has a problem with their distro's packages. As pointed out, they are/were out-of-date and useless to people not willing to a) install a load of packages; 2) do a lot of git clones; d) understand a lot about installing a new bundle in a sugar-jhbuild directory tree. The solution is better packages, IMHO. But then again, I've neither made any packages nor updated the jhbuild wiki pages recently, so nobody should really listen to me. > We need as much information as possible about how jhbuild > has been put on Ubuntu and other distros, in order to support building > it on yet more distros. The jhbuild pages I thought we were talking about were just about installing jhbuild, not packaging sugar (which is different than "how jhbuild has been put on . . . distros"). Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/db3a69f9/attachment.pgp From morgan.collett at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 06:31:01 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:31:01 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Gdium.Com is launching the One Laptop Per Hacker program. In-Reply-To: <242851610901180220u3bc631e5yf925529a2403c08@mail.gmail.com> References: <14381.68.147.1.71.1231896946.squirrel@host171.canaca.com> <242851610901180220u3bc631e5yf925529a2403c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:20, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 02:35, wrote: >> Donating laptops to worthy developer/developer projects. Might be of >> interest to the OLPC/Sugar crowd. >> http://www.gdium.com/group/58/home >> >> Machine has resonable specs: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdium > > Yeah, I expect many cheap machines to appear during 2009 with MIPS and > ARM based processors. Mandriva is already running on the first models > that appeared (including Gdium and Mobilis). > > Bernie ported Sugar to the Beagleboard, which has hardware similar to > the Mobilis (OMAPx by TI) and Aleksey is already working on putting > Sugar in the next release of Mandriva. > > So I trust Sugar is going to be very well supported on that category > of machines ;) My apologies if I've posted this link already :) http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/pegatron-and-freescale-team-for-low-power-ultra-cheap-netbooks/ "Freescale is working with Ubuntu to prep an ARM-Linux distro, which will hit in May" Ubuntu's ARM buildroot's getting in good shape, so we should gain an ARM port automagically... Regards Morgan From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 06:34:18 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:34:18 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Gdium.Com is launching the One Laptop Per Hacker program. In-Reply-To: References: <14381.68.147.1.71.1231896946.squirrel@host171.canaca.com> <242851610901180220u3bc631e5yf925529a2403c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901190334r376c8c3fr10046a0442bc0de7@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:31, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:20, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 02:35, wrote: >>> Donating laptops to worthy developer/developer projects. Might be of >>> interest to the OLPC/Sugar crowd. >>> http://www.gdium.com/group/58/home >>> >>> Machine has resonable specs: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdium >> >> Yeah, I expect many cheap machines to appear during 2009 with MIPS and >> ARM based processors. Mandriva is already running on the first models >> that appeared (including Gdium and Mobilis). >> >> Bernie ported Sugar to the Beagleboard, which has hardware similar to >> the Mobilis (OMAPx by TI) and Aleksey is already working on putting >> Sugar in the next release of Mandriva. >> >> So I trust Sugar is going to be very well supported on that category >> of machines ;) > > My apologies if I've posted this link already :) > > http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/pegatron-and-freescale-team-for-low-power-ultra-cheap-netbooks/ > > "Freescale is working with Ubuntu to prep an ARM-Linux distro, which > will hit in May" > > Ubuntu's ARM buildroot's getting in good shape, so we should gain an > ARM port automagically... Looks pretty sweet. We now need more rugged machines with screens like the one on the XO. Thanks, Tomeu From morgan.collett at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 06:40:46 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:40:46 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 20:03, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 04:30:51PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting >> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >> try. > > I'd like to, but still haven't got the sugar-jhbuild installation to work, > neither on Debian lenny nor on Ubuntu hardy. It compiles fine now, but on > lenny the emulator aborts (gconf Python module missing) and on hardy most > activities don't start up. There are loads of tracebacks in the logs, > including one complaining about "misc" missing in the journal module. On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer dependencies that are only in Intrepid. Regards Morgan From shikhar at schmizz.net Mon Jan 19 07:19:08 2009 From: shikhar at schmizz.net (Shikhar) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:19:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] xomail moved to sugarlabs In-Reply-To: References: <4973572F.6090601@schmizz.net> Message-ID: <49746FBC.6050508@schmizz.net> On 01/18/2009 07:01 PM, Arjun Sarwal wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Shikhar wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have moved the xomail repository over from OLPC (now called >> sweetmail). The last commit was over 4 months ago at which point the >> functionality that was in place was: >> - sending/receiving email >> - mail storage and tagging >> > Can you please point to where I could download a bundle(Alpha?) for trying out ? Sorry, I never really created a bundle. Well it's not a very useful client right now e.g. there's no UI to configure accounts yet, it's hardcoded :-) But you can clone the git repository for xomail on dev.l.o in ~/Activities/Mail.activity (the code in git.sl.o will not result in a working activity yet since I was refactoring it and that's not finished) >> A lot of work is still to be done and I'm hopeful of finishing it and >> releasing an alpha in the coming weeks. >> > Cool, looking forward to it! > > cheers > Arjun > >> Best, >> >> Shikhar >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > -- > Arjun Sarwal > From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Mon Jan 19 07:48:57 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:48:57 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:40:46PM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer > dependencies that are only in Intrepid. Thanks for the info. Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies including versions. "sugar-jhbuild build" completed without errors, the system just won't work. This would also help in evaluating whether sugar-jhbuild could work on Debian lenny at all. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time currently. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/9aab24c6/attachment.pgp From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Mon Jan 19 08:04:10 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:04:10 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <20090119130410.GB5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:48:57PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: > Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies including versions. BTW: Where do I get the wnck Python binding? It's neither in Debian lenny/unstable nor in Ubuntu intrepid. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/d81afebb/attachment.pgp From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 08:25:09 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:25:09 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901190525x3fd82961v2cb5c0681dbde0d2@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 17:07, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe >> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> >>>> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If you resume >>>> by >>>> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose the undo >>>> functionality. >>> >>> That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning proposal, >>> what happened to that one? >> >> Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now >> resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the user >> clicked on its icon in the journal. >> >> It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions >> and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't gotten to >> implement it in something that can be released. >> >> So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume >> operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second >> place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which activities >> get stored in the journal. >> >> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting >> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >> try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to delay >> for a few days the release in case we find that something can be done >> and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. > > FWIW: I'd love to give it a whirl and provide some feedback, unfortunately I > only have access to Sugar on XO hardware ? so I'm out of such early > test/debug/feedback loop until things land in Joyride (or some future > equivalent). Ok, I expect it to appear in joyride in a couple of days. Regards, Tomeu > --G > >> If we find this is not possible given our schedule constraints, we >> will back this change out and revert to the old behaviour. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tomeu >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 08:24:05 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:24:05 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: <20090119094633.GE1214@ops-13.xades.com> References: <20090119094633.GE1214@ops-13.xades.com> Message-ID: <242851610901190524lcbf5169j4797cbb160b935ff@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:46, Martin Dengler wrote: > On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 05:15:53PM -0800, Edward Cherlin wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 1:15 PM, David Farning wrote: >> > I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the >> > developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) >> > >> > These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the >> > only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have >> > packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions >> > as our primary means of delivery, >> >> But we cannot do that today. > > David's "will be using" seems pretty consistent with your statement. > >> The Activity packages that exist have serious bugs, and most .xo >> bundles simply will not run on these other platforms in the packaged >> Sugar environments. Please put those pages back. > > I fail to see how those pages will help someone who has a problem with > their distro's packages. As pointed out, they are/were out-of-date > and useless to people not willing to a) install a load of packages; 2) > do a lot of git clones; d) understand a lot about installing a new > bundle in a sugar-jhbuild directory tree. > > The solution is better packages, IMHO. But then again, I've neither > made any packages nor updated the jhbuild wiki pages recently, so > nobody should really listen to me. > >> We need as much information as possible about how jhbuild >> has been put on Ubuntu and other distros, in order to support building >> it on yet more distros. > > The jhbuild pages I thought we were talking about were just about > installing jhbuild, not packaging sugar (which is different than "how > jhbuild has been put on . . . distros"). The point that I was trying to make is that distro-specific notes shouldn't be needed any more because jhbuild will check if the needed packages are already installed and will tell the user which are missing. So no need to have this info in a wiki page. For people willing to use jhbuild in a platform not currently supported, all they have to do is to write a file similar to these in the link below and submit it to us: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/trees/master/config/sysdeps I believe it will be easier than maintaining wiki pages. Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 08:26:32 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:26:32 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901190526r6a96cc4bo9dae27e384204825@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 13:48, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:40:46PM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: > >> On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer >> dependencies that are only in Intrepid. > > Thanks for the info. Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies > including versions. "sugar-jhbuild build" completed without errors, the > system just won't work. > This would also help in evaluating whether sugar-jhbuild could work on > Debian lenny at all. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time currently. Someone needs to provide a sysdeps file for lenny, probably based on debian-unstable.xml: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/trees/master/config/sysdeps Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 08:28:10 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:28:10 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901190528i38b2d811k3f790a560c38f6f5@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 19:03, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 04:30:51PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting >> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >> try. > > I'd like to, but still haven't got the sugar-jhbuild installation to work, > neither on Debian lenny nor on Ubuntu hardy. It compiles fine now, but on > lenny the emulator aborts (gconf Python module missing) and on hardy most > activities don't start up. There are loads of tracebacks in the logs, > including one complaining about "misc" missing in the journal module. You probably need to modify the sysdeps xml file in order to build a newer version of some dependency, but is hard to say more without seeing the actual error log. Can you post? Thanks, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 08:28:59 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:28:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <20090119130410.GB5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119130410.GB5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901190528p2186f093o3c879cf59ccbe35a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 14:04, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:48:57PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: > >> Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies including versions. > > BTW: Where do I get the wnck Python binding? It's neither in Debian > lenny/unstable nor in Ubuntu intrepid. The upstream package is named gnome-python-desktop. Regards, Tomeu From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Mon Jan 19 09:25:25 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:25:25 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <242851610901190526r6a96cc4bo9dae27e384204825@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190526r6a96cc4bo9dae27e384204825@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090119142525.GA17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 02:26:32PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Thanks for the info. Would be nice if there were a list of >> dependencies >> including versions. "sugar-jhbuild build" completed without errors, >> the >> system just won't work. >> This would also help in evaluating whether sugar-jhbuild could work >> on >> Debian lenny at all. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time currently. > Someone needs to provide a sysdeps file for lenny, probably based on > debian-unstable.xml: Well, that's what I'm trying to do. But it would help a lot to know which _versions_ of the packages listed in the other sysdeps files are required. As written before, Ubuntu hardy contains all of the packages listed for intrepid, but apparently not the required version of them. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/1eef37d2/attachment.pgp From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Mon Jan 19 09:39:25 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:39:25 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <242851610901190528p2186f093o3c879cf59ccbe35a@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119130410.GB5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190528p2186f093o3c879cf59ccbe35a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090119143925.GB17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 02:28:59PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: [wnck Python binding] > The upstream package is named gnome-python-desktop. Thanks, that helped a lot! Will file a bug report about the sysdeps files missing that one later (currently collecting all those missing dependencies so I need only a single bug report per distro). The next error is: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/sugar/sugar-jhbuild/install/bin/sugar-session", line 170, in main() File "/home/sugar/sugar-jhbuild/install/bin/sugar-session", line 131, in main intro.check_profile() File "/home/sugar/sugar-jhbuild/install/lib/python2.5/site-packages/jarabe/intro/__init__.py", line 22, in check_profile if not profile.is_valid(): File "/home/sugar/sugar-jhbuild/install/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sugar/profile.py", line 55, in is_valid nick = client.get_string("/desktop/sugar/user/nick") glib.GError: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: Could not send message to gconf daemon: Method "GetIOR" with signature "" on interface "org.gnome.GConf" doesn't exist ) Any hint on that one? The mentioned web page wasn't really helpful. There's no second machine (so no TCP/IP necessary) nor did I find any stale lock file (even removed the whole .sugar directory). CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/83d54db1/attachment.pgp From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 09:46:33 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:46:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <20090119142525.GA17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190526r6a96cc4bo9dae27e384204825@mail.gmail.com> <20090119142525.GA17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901190646w34938129u3f26c8e945a0e63e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 15:25, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 02:26:32PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >>> Thanks for the info. Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies >>> including versions. "sugar-jhbuild build" completed without errors, the >>> system just won't work. >>> This would also help in evaluating whether sugar-jhbuild could work on >>> Debian lenny at all. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time currently. >> >> Someone needs to provide a sysdeps file for lenny, probably based on >> debian-unstable.xml: > > Well, that's what I'm trying to do. But it would help a lot to know which > _versions_ of the packages listed in the other sysdeps files are required. > As written before, Ubuntu hardy contains all of the packages listed for > intrepid, but apparently not the required version of them. The error log that you get will tell us, though I can anticipate needing to build inside jhbuild the versions of gtk, pygtk, etc that are in Intrepid or F11. Regards, Tomeu From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Mon Jan 19 10:02:00 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:02:00 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <242851610901190528i38b2d811k3f790a560c38f6f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190528i38b2d811k3f790a560c38f6f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090119150200.GC17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 02:28:10PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> [...] on hardy most activities don't start up. There are loads of >> tracebacks in the logs, including one complaining about "misc" >> missing in the journal module. > You probably need to modify the sysdeps xml file in order to build a > newer version of some dependency, but is hard to say more without > seeing the actual error log. Can you post? I've put the log on [1]. Anyway, after some sleep I figured it out myself: The version of python-gobject in hardy (2.14.2-0ubuntu1) doesn't provide the gio module (2.15.3-0ubuntu5 from intrepid does include it). All other errors are probably an indirect result of this module loading error. Seems like hardy really is too "old" to run sugar-jhbuild. Would be nice if sugar-jhbuild noticed that and printed a warning instead of silently continuing as if everything was fine. [1] http://sascha.silbe.org/bugs/sugar-ubuntu-hardy-gio-missing-shell.log CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/ce6b25b7/attachment.pgp From sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org Mon Jan 19 10:03:31 2009 From: sascha-ml-ui-sugar-devel at silbe.org (Sascha Silbe) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:03:31 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <242851610901190646w34938129u3f26c8e945a0e63e@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190526r6a96cc4bo9dae27e384204825@mail.gmail.com> <20090119142525.GA17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190646w34938129u3f26c8e945a0e63e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090119150331.GD17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 03:46:33PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > The error log that you get will tell us, though I can anticipate > needing to build inside jhbuild the versions of gtk, pygtk, etc that > are in Intrepid or F11. That's possible? Great! Is there any HOWTO or some other directions? CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/1bd14b79/attachment-0001.pgp From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 10:10:33 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:10:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20090119150331.GD17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190526r6a96cc4bo9dae27e384204825@mail.gmail.com> <20090119142525.GA17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190646w34938129u3f26c8e945a0e63e@mail.gmail.com> <20090119150331.GD17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <242851610901190710i34da9042i8dd3e89a8c98e871@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 16:03, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 03:46:33PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> The error log that you get will tell us, though I can anticipate >> needing to build inside jhbuild the versions of gtk, pygtk, etc that >> are in Intrepid or F11. > > That's possible? Great! Is there any HOWTO or some other directions? No docs that I know of, though I expect that by changing the pygobject2 package dep to: jhbuild will know which version it needs to download and build. Then you need to do the same with the packages that needs a newer version that the one in lenny. Good luck, Tomeu From dr at jones.dk Mon Jan 19 10:32:46 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:32:46 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild on Debian/Ubuntu (was: Re: feature freeze issue #3: resume by default) In-Reply-To: <20090119150200.GC17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901190528i38b2d811k3f790a560c38f6f5@mail.gmail.com> <20090119150200.GC17436@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <20090119153246.GQ24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 04:02:00PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 02:28:10PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >>> [...] on hardy most activities don't start up. There are loads of >>> tracebacks in the logs, including one complaining about "misc" >>> missing in the journal module. >> You probably need to modify the sysdeps xml file in order to build a >> newer version of some dependency, but is hard to say more without >> seeing the actual error log. Can you post? > I've put the log on [1]. Anyway, after some sleep I figured it out > myself: The version of python-gobject in hardy (2.14.2-0ubuntu1) doesn't > provide the gio module (2.15.3-0ubuntu5 from intrepid does include it). Good catch! For jhbuild dependency hint: GIO was introduced in libglib 2.15. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl0nR4ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiBygCcCSbwm5WpEnoFPYHPoRL+FKbD yRIAoISrslObmERNbAS6pnC7C/ccd5se =Q8kr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 10:44:09 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:44:09 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Gdium.Com is launching the One Laptop Per Hacker program. In-Reply-To: <242851610901190334r376c8c3fr10046a0442bc0de7@mail.gmail.com> References: <14381.68.147.1.71.1231896946.squirrel@host171.canaca.com> <242851610901180220u3bc631e5yf925529a2403c08@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901190334r376c8c3fr10046a0442bc0de7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901190744m17d2cf33o833ae2840812b559@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:34, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:31, Morgan Collett wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 12:20, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 02:35, wrote: >>>> Donating laptops to worthy developer/developer projects. Might be of >>>> interest to the OLPC/Sugar crowd. >>>> http://www.gdium.com/group/58/home >>>> >>>> Machine has resonable specs: >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdium >>> >>> Yeah, I expect many cheap machines to appear during 2009 with MIPS and >>> ARM based processors. Mandriva is already running on the first models >>> that appeared (including Gdium and Mobilis). >>> >>> Bernie ported Sugar to the Beagleboard, which has hardware similar to >>> the Mobilis (OMAPx by TI) and Aleksey is already working on putting >>> Sugar in the next release of Mandriva. >>> >>> So I trust Sugar is going to be very well supported on that category >>> of machines ;) >> >> My apologies if I've posted this link already :) >> >> http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/09/pegatron-and-freescale-team-for-low-power-ultra-cheap-netbooks/ >> >> "Freescale is working with Ubuntu to prep an ARM-Linux distro, which >> will hit in May" >> >> Ubuntu's ARM buildroot's getting in good shape, so we should gain an >> ARM port automagically... > > Looks pretty sweet. We now need more rugged machines with screens like > the one on the XO. One more hw update: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=330150&source=rss_topic12 Regards, Tomeu From simon at mungewell.org Mon Jan 19 10:45:07 2009 From: simon at mungewell.org (Simon Wood) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:45:07 -0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <20090119084507.6e74f318@bourne> Is it documented somewhere what to use on Jaunty? I've just downloaded Alpha3 and expected to use this for testing the lastest Sugar, and hopefully squashing some bugs. Simon. On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:40:46 +0200 Morgan Collett wrote: > On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer > dependencies that are only in Intrepid. > > Regards > Morgan > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 10:52:02 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:52:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090119084507.6e74f318@bourne> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119084507.6e74f318@bourne> Message-ID: <242851610901190752m457d0aeeo6efd463212c41983@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 16:45, Simon Wood wrote: > Is it documented somewhere what to use on Jaunty? > > I've just downloaded Alpha3 and expected to use this for testing the lastest Sugar, and hopefully squashing some bugs. Awesome, can you try the following? cd ~/sugar-jhbuild cp config/sysdeps/ubuntu-8.10.xml config/sysdeps/ubuntu-9.04.xml ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck ./sugar-jhbuild build Thanks, Tomeu > Simon. > > On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:40:46 +0200 > Morgan Collett wrote: > >> On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer >> dependencies that are only in Intrepid. >> >> Regards >> Morgan >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From bobbypowers at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 12:03:37 2009 From: bobbypowers at gmail.com (Bobby Powers) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:03:37 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Python-based window manager? In-Reply-To: <20090114140722.GF26337@jones.dk> References: <20090114140722.GF26337@jones.dk> Message-ID: <23e2e54b0901190903x3030a13fx5b2a75dde0871965@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I believe there was some discussion earlier on regarding dealing with > core X11 from Python. And regading the choice of window manager used > for Sugar. > > Are you aware of python-xlib[1] and The Pointless Window Manager[2]? > > > (no, I do not intend to hack together some proof of concept - I do > packaging not coding, and just stumbled across a Debian update of these > today). PLWM's site (plwm.sf.net) says their last update was in 2004. More recently there is samurai-x (http://samurai-x.org/), another wm written in python. Their current development is on a wm using the XCB, and they've made python bindings for it. It requires cairo to have the experimental XCB backend enabled, which is not the default at least in Fedora. If you want to test samurai-x on F10 or joyride, I've created some RPMs of cairo with the xcb backend: http://dev.laptop.org/~bobbyp/rpms/ I believe you also need the xcb-proto package. From there you should be able to install pyxcb, ooxcb, and samurai-x2 from their git repository. They seem to be under very heavy development lately, with a new tiling branch I have yet to try out! Bobby > > Kind regards, > > - Jonas > > > [1] http://python-xlib.sourceforge.net/ > > [2] http://plwm.sourceforge.net/ > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAklt8ZoACgkQn7DbMsAkQLg9hQCfS85ySDUwkJN4s6W9YSQmsUfK > fVoAoIc2foDGYdLSAVDMa5F3+HwyY4KL > =L5VK > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From morgan.collett at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 12:28:45 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:28:45 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] readetexts and viewslides moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: <8C36ABAD-5876-4F48-A080-55D148626155@garycmartin.com> References: <497499EF.7030702@walgreens.com> <8C36ABAD-5876-4F48-A080-55D148626155@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 17:52, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 19 Jan 2009, at 15:19, James Simmons wrote: > >> Over the weekend I updated Read Etexts and View Slides to be more like >> the current Read activity. Previously they only attempted to save >> metadata on closing instead of writing a new file. I was getting >> "keep" >> errors because of that, so now I link a temporary file like Read does. >> I also fixed them so that you can launch them from an icon and be >> prompted to open an existing Journal entry. This makes the activities Great! >> much more useable, in my opinion, but I am disappointed that I cannot >> filter the Journal entries by MIME type. > > I'm sure I spotted some recent trac chatter covering a new MIME > filtering ability for the Object Chooser, can't find it again off hand > just now. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3060 -- ooh, it's been fixed. I must update Read to filter appropriately... >> The code for both has been copied to git.sugarlabs.org, and I think I >> did everything OK except I forgot to put the project entry for Read >> Etexts in the category "activities" and I don't see a way to fix that. > > If you go to your 'Dashboard' you'll see your projects listed on the > right, from there you land in the 'Project Overview' tab, click > 'Project Settings' and you get to edit all the original fields as per > when you created the project. > >> Currently the code is up to date in both old and new repositories. >> Should I continue to do that, or should I abandon the old repository? > > Same here for me with Moon, I consider dev.laptop.org (for Moon and > other moved reps) deprecated though I have no idea how to change the > rep description to show "DEPRECATED - see git.sugarlabs.org" like > others have done (read and chat). Any hints? Someone with shell access to dev.laptop.org, and with write access to your git repo, can edit the file - e.g. /git/chat-activity/description. Regards Morgan From dr at jones.dk Mon Jan 19 13:06:04 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:06:04 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Python-based window manager? In-Reply-To: <23e2e54b0901190903x3030a13fx5b2a75dde0871965@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090114140722.GF26337@jones.dk> <23e2e54b0901190903x3030a13fx5b2a75dde0871965@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090119180604.GS24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 12:03:37PM -0500, Bobby Powers wrote: >On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> I believe there was some discussion earlier on regarding dealing with >> core X11 from Python. And regading the choice of window manager used >> for Sugar. >> >> Are you aware of python-xlib[1] and The Pointless Window Manager[2]? >PLWM's site (plwm.sf.net) says their last update was in 2004. More >recently there is samurai-x (http://samurai-x.org/), another wm >written in python. Their current development is on a wm using the >XCB, and they've made python bindings for it. It requires cairo to >have the experimental XCB backend enabled, which is not the default at >least in Fedora. PLWM indeed there have been no official release since 2004, but not dead: Development is ungoing (latest commit a week ago), and Debian currently ships patched to be in sync with the development tree as of mid 2008. Samurai-x2 sounds interesting. Cairo in recent Debian (and derivatives) is linked against XCB. If relevant for Sugar development/testing, I can probably be convinced to build samurai-x2. Let me know if there is interest in doing that. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl0wQwACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiwUQCdEabAJEDrcLE8GJdJJL/DuLAd EEkAn0FOcUazR6OcC3OcP/Of4Q3r0W+l =Ymlj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 13:50:40 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:50:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] one more mind mapping activity Message-ID: <242851610901191050p36d54bdesdb730c8f267087f1@mail.gmail.com> Hi, between Gary and Ben, I have been tricked into starting a new mind mapping activity: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap The following goals justify in my mind a new code base: - very simple and expressive UI - the view widget can be embedded in a GNOME application - collaboration using both Telepathy and Groupthink, working both in GNOME and in Sugar - excellent Sugar integration Current features: - Grid-based editor of thoughts - Thoughts can be dragged around the canvas view - Journal support Most missed features: - Links between thoughts - Edit thoughts in place - Removal of thoughts - Collaboration Will try to keep working on it when I get some free time, but everyone is welcome to jump and join the fun. In the medium/longer term, I hope we'll gain several users in the GNOME side of things and some of them will share the work of maintaining this project. Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 19 14:00:32 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 19:00:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-datastore-0.83.2 Message-ID: <20090119190032.6BB3820C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.83.2.tar.bz2 == Fixed tickets == * #181 replace deprecated os.popen by subprocess * #140 crash when joining a shared Read From walter.bender at gmail.com Mon Jan 19 15:38:23 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:38:23 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2009-01-19 Message-ID: === Sugar Digest === 1. Yesterday was Day One of Linux Conference Australia (LCA), being held in Hobart, Tasmania. I mostly hung out in the sessions on the business side of free and open source. David Rowe did a nice job advocating for open hardware?something we never were quite able to achieve when I was at OLPC. Most of the speakers delivered pragmatic talks: how to engage with government (Pia Waugh), with large companies (Bdale Garbee), marketing (Joe Brokmeier), etc. The last speaker of the day, Lawrence Crumpton, talked about Microsoft's embracing of open source; his talk was titled ''Did Hell Freeze Over?'' Alas, the title was the highlight of the talk. The efforts he described as successes were all shallow and clumsy efforts at engagement with lots of strings attached. I don't think he once mentioned "free as in speech" and he essentially delegated FOSS efforts to the non-commercial sector. I, for one, remain skeptical. Actions will speak louder than words. Pia and I did get started on a discussion about how best to move forward with one laptop per child in the region. She is rightly still enamored with the OLPC-XO-1 hardware, as it meets the needs imposed by the harsh environmental conditions faced in many of her potential deployment sites. We discussed strategies for building sustainable local support and the need for global cooperation in order to increase efficiency. We'll keep brainstorming. We've got a Birds of a Feather session at the end of the week that promises to bring more minds to the table as well. I had dinner last night with Rob Savoye, among others. Rob continues to make progress on Gnash. He has some very nice results on the XO hardware?yes you can play Youtube videos and yes you can run a stand-alone SWF player for which we talked about putting together a simple Sugar wrapper. Rob's other big project right now involves finding workarounds to the plethora of proprietary codecs that encumber FOSS projects. 2. Occasionally my tendency towards addictive behavior emerges. I haven't been able to kick the habit of coding. I started working on the portfolio fork of Turtle Art last week during XO Camp and I wrote Python across the Pacific and I stayed up much to late last night after visiting some pubs coding. In the spirit of "eat your own dogfood", my goal is to get things into sufficient shape so as to be able to give my LCA talk using Turtle Art. I am close, but my Python and GTK skills are still pretty lacking. You can track my progress in gitorious?I am making frequent commits?and feel free to submit patches!! And my apologies to everyone for lack of eye contact. 3. Gary Martin has being doing some great work in the wiki on our Getting Involved page (See http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/GettingInvolved). Anyone want to tackle our http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs:About page, which is not very helpful. === Community jams, meet-ups, and meetings === 4. As mentioned above, on Friday afternoon, 23 January, is an OLPC BOF at linux.conf.au in Hobart. It is an open discussion to explore strategies for community development and paths forward for OLPC and Sugar in the region. We expect attendees from Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific. 5. David Nalley blogged about Fedora and Sugar at the Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts January meeting this past week. He reports lots of enthusiasm now that getting involved with OLPC development is as easy as getting involved with Fedora. === Help Wanted === 6. Sugar Labs will be participating in Google Summer of Code. We are soliciting projects and mentors. Details soon. === Tech Talk === 7. As several people have pointed out, Gdium is donating laptops to developers (See http://www.gdium.com/group/58/home) who might be interested in working on Sugar. The machines run Mandriva (which also runs on the Mobilis that is being considered for use in Brazil). Aleksey Lim has Sugar working on Mandriva (See http://sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Mandriva) and we hope to have Sugar packaged as part of the next release of Mandriva. 8. Tomeu Vizoso reports that he, along with Gary Martin and Ben Schwartz, has been "tricked" into starting a new mind-mapping Activity (See http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap). Some of the interesting ideas that they are exploring are: * the view widget can be embedded in a GNOME application * collaboration using both Telepathy and Groupthink, working both in GNOME and in Sugar This could be a model for making Sugar Activities run both within and outside of Sugar. 9. Recent software updates: * TAPortfolio-3 * calculate-28 * chat-62 * read-63 * etoys 4.0.2205 * Etoys-99 * sugar-presence-service-0.83.3 * sugar-datastore-0.83.2 * telepathy-gabble 0.7.18 === Sugar Labs === 10. Gary Martin has generated another SOM from the past week of discussion on the IAEP mailing list (Please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:2009-January-10-16-som.jpg). -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From simon at schampijer.de Mon Jan 19 17:18:27 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:18:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-base-0.83.3 Message-ID: <20090119221827.8F44920C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-base/sugar-base-0.83.3.tar.bz2 == News == * Don't print logs to tty instead of shell.log in the emulator * Trivial port to GIO instead of GnomeVFS From simon at schampijer.de Mon Jan 19 17:26:40 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-artwork-0.83.3 Message-ID: <20090119222640.74F4420C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.83.3.tar.bz2 == Fixed tickets == * add activity-journal icon to artwork * add system-logout icon (part of #207) * add everything needed for the colorpicker. That is a small icon and a bit in the gtkrc. * fix triangular arrows by looking at the parent_bg_color option * add icons for object transfers From simon at schampijer.de Mon Jan 19 17:45:28 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:45:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-toolkit-0.83.4 Message-ID: <49750288.4010901@schampijer.de> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit/sugar-toolkit-0.83.4.tar.bz2 == News == * separate debug settings from xsession #163 * show an alert on activity close for suggesting the user to set properties of the entry #215 * add a colorpicker to Sugar, only the ColorToolButton is public for now * move the palette to new style gobject properties * d.l.o #3060 Add the possibility of filtering the object chooser by data type * fix uninstallling of activities that use symlinks #171 * remove the hacks for asking the X server for screenshots and use gtk.Widget.get_snapshot() instead From simon at schampijer.de Mon Jan 19 18:02:42 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:02:42 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-0.83.5 Message-ID: <49750692.4060103@schampijer.de> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.83.5.tar.bz2 == News == * make the journal entries in the favorites palette resumable * simplify the constants used to identify favorite layouts * separate debug settings from xsession #163 * add logout option #207 to xomenu (sayamindu, icon by eben) * change jabber server without sugar restart #142 * About my XO -> About my Computer * #196 Fix setting the timezone in Debian * autoconnect to AP that we connected to last #8 * add a favorites mode setting for deciding if the favorites view resumes by default or not * resume by default the last activity from the favorites view * implement filtering by file type for removable devices * #132 Filter by timestamp, not by mtime * add support for text queries on removable devices * dont abort if we cannot read a file from a removable device * add a favorite filter to the journal toolbar * sanitize the file name when we copy to removable devices * #36 Refresh the detailed view when the entry changes * #38 Refresh full metadata when editing so we do not lose properties * Focus Search is not exposed via dbus anymore #89 * #131 'open with' does not work for clipboard item * #165 Install bundles when they get into the journal * add Resume item to the file transfer palette * #126 Fix erase button in the journal * following eben's spec for the device positions From simon at schampijer.de Mon Jan 19 18:16:02 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 23:16:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-103 Message-ID: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-103.tar.bz2 == News == * use cjson instead of json * new translations From bert at freudenbergs.de Mon Jan 19 18:23:53 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:23:53 +0900 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Auto-installing bundles (was [RELEASE] sugar-0.83.5) In-Reply-To: <49750692.4060103@schampijer.de> References: <49750692.4060103@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <5D199B46-EFB3-4B9D-A9E9-BF28AF86E31E@freudenbergs.de> On 20.01.2009, at 08:02, Simon Schampijer wrote: > * #165 Install bundles when they get into the journal Does that mean any xo bundle an activity saves is automatically and immediately installed? - Bert - From dr at jones.dk Mon Jan 19 21:08:51 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:08:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-103 In-Reply-To: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> References: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> Message-ID: <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:16:02PM +0000, Simon Schampijer wrote: >== Source == > >http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-103.tar.bz2 Hmm. Only Browse 102 is available there currently :-( - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl1MjMACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiCQgCgnOtgHVKp7J4HzNX07F2oz7I+ MtMAoJ7N3YfnjOfi3R28urWsILHs5s/A =3EPf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 20 03:14:39 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:14:39 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sucrose Downloads not synced (was Re: [RELEASE] Browse-103) In-Reply-To: <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> References: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: <497587EF.80300@schampijer.de> Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:16:02PM +0000, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> == Source == >> >> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-103.tar.bz2 > > Hmm. Only Browse 102 is available there currently :-( > > > - Jonas Looks like the sources are not synced from sunjammer. erikos at sunjammer:~$ ls /upload/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/ Browse-102.tar.bz2 Browse-103.tar.bz2 All the new Sucrose sources do not show up. Bernie might know what is going on there. Thanks for notifying, Simon From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 20 03:30:17 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:30:17 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sucrose Downloads not synced (was Re: [RELEASE] Browse-103) In-Reply-To: <497587EF.80300@schampijer.de> References: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> <497587EF.80300@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49758B99.60502@schampijer.de> Simon Schampijer wrote: > Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:16:02PM +0000, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> == Source == >>> >>> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-103.tar.bz2 >> Hmm. Only Browse 102 is available there currently :-( >> >> >> - Jonas > > Looks like the sources are not synced from sunjammer. > > erikos at sunjammer:~$ ls /upload/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/ > Browse-102.tar.bz2 Browse-103.tar.bz2 > > All the new Sucrose sources do not show up. Bernie might know what is > going on there. > > Thanks for notifying, > Simon Our infrastructure hero reports the issue to be fixed already! Thanks Bernie, Simon From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 03:34:59 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:34:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] one more mind mapping activity In-Reply-To: <3c866f940901191425j79504e90lb3f9764fabc90d58@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901191050p36d54bdesdb730c8f267087f1@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901191425j79504e90lb3f9764fabc90d58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901200034n4fd0341ci350a1ee1263ae56@mail.gmail.com> Oi Gabriel, On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 23:25, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > Hi Tomeu, > > This is great. I wanted to check out the code but was unable to. I > tried the following: > > $ git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap > > and I get the error: > > Initialized empty Git repository in > /home/gabriel/ceibaljam/mindmapping/mindmap/.git/ > fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly > fetch-pack from 'git://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap' failed. > > What am I doing wrong? I'm sorry I'm not very familiar with git. You need to click on the "mainline" link, there you will get instructions about how to checkout the code: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap/repos/mainline git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/mindmap/mainline.git HTH, Tomeu > Thank you, > > Gabriel > > > 2009/1/19 Tomeu Vizoso : >> Hi, >> >> between Gary and Ben, I have been tricked into starting a new mind >> mapping activity: >> >> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/mindmap >> >> The following goals justify in my mind a new code base: >> >> - very simple and expressive UI >> - the view widget can be embedded in a GNOME application >> - collaboration using both Telepathy and Groupthink, working both in >> GNOME and in Sugar >> - excellent Sugar integration >> >> Current features: >> >> - Grid-based editor of thoughts >> - Thoughts can be dragged around the canvas view >> - Journal support >> >> Most missed features: >> >> - Links between thoughts >> - Edit thoughts in place >> - Removal of thoughts >> - Collaboration >> >> Will try to keep working on it when I get some free time, but everyone >> is welcome to jump and join the fun. >> >> In the medium/longer term, I hope we'll gain several users in the >> GNOME side of things and some of them will share the work of >> maintaining this project. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 03:47:55 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:47:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Auto-installing bundles (was [RELEASE] sugar-0.83.5) In-Reply-To: <5D199B46-EFB3-4B9D-A9E9-BF28AF86E31E@freudenbergs.de> References: <49750692.4060103@schampijer.de> <5D199B46-EFB3-4B9D-A9E9-BF28AF86E31E@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <242851610901200047p3b03eea3ne9ac74c8bdfb736c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 00:23, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 20.01.2009, at 08:02, Simon Schampijer wrote: > >> * #165 Install bundles when they get into the journal > > Does that mean any xo bundle an activity saves is automatically and > immediately installed? Yeah, though this has been like this for at least a couple releases. It just happened to get broken at some point during the 0.83 development cycle. Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 03:51:27 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:51:27 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-103 In-Reply-To: <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> References: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: <242851610901200051i263026d7ge104f622be368e47@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 03:08, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:16:02PM +0000, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>== Source == >> >>http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-103.tar.bz2 > > Hmm. Only Browse 102 is available there currently :-( Is there now, I'm not sure how much delay is there after the initial upload happens, as there's a cron job that pushes to the actual downloads machine. Thanks for telling, Tomeu From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 20 05:26:54 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:26:54 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Write 61 Message-ID: <4975A6EE.1060102@schampijer.de> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Write/Write-61.tar.bz2 == News == * Make use of the ColorToolButton that benzea landed in sugar-toolkit * #3060 Filter object chooser so it shows only images * #8972 Save to OpenDocument if we cannot export in the original format Cheers, Simon From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 20 06:27:08 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:27:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose Message-ID: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> Hi, the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it back in August. Since then there has been some development going into Pippy (now version 30) http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even though I sent a reminder http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to git.sugarlabs.org, as well. please indicate clearly: * if you still want to be part of Sucrose (including following the release cycle) * any new maintainer that is willing to do this task if you does not want to * any issues/reasons you have to do so Best, Simon From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 20 09:38:46 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:38:46 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sucrose Downloads not synced (was Re: [RELEASE] Browse-103) In-Reply-To: <49758B99.60502@schampijer.de> References: <20090119231602.7CAA020C1BA@sunjammer.sugarlabs.org> <20090120020851.GU24357@jones.dk> <497587EF.80300@schampijer.de> <49758B99.60502@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090120143846.GX24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 09:30:17AM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:16:02PM +0000, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>>> == Source == >>>> >>>> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-103.tar.bz2 >>> Hmm. Only Browse 102 is available there currently :-( >> Looks like the sources are not synced from sunjammer. >> >> erikos at sunjammer:~$ ls /upload/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/ >> Browse-102.tar.bz2 Browse-103.tar.bz2 >> >> All the new Sucrose sources do not show up. Bernie might know what is >> going on there. >Our infrastructure hero reports the issue to be fixed already! Cool! Praise the hero! :-D - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl14fYACgkQn7DbMsAkQLiUfQCfSb/p4x5zFvwHQL3eLAM83EFy a70AmwZGVydEPslO7EjJQtgQsKNGUFSa =41jM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 20 09:42:38 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:42:38 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Write 61 In-Reply-To: <4975A6EE.1060102@schampijer.de> References: <4975A6EE.1060102@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090120144237.GY24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:26:54AM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >* Make use of the ColorToolButton that benzea landed in sugar-toolkit Activities are supposed to be backwards compatible, right? So above fails gracefully if ColorToolButton is not found, right? If backwards compatibility cannot be assumed, I recommend implementing some mechanism to check at .xo install time if the activity will work, as we promote installs by users themselves (not by sysadmins as is the case for distro applications). - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl14t0ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhJ5wCfSz+8uFDwyHxJ0T/zD4Xv/MJm DEcAnj2AwaKCkhmEXmUcsdfVzsAdKoeG =kjk9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 20 09:47:29 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:47:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:27:08PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it >back in August. Since then there has been some development going into >Pippy (now version 30) >http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog > >But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even >though I sent a reminder >http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html > >Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to >git.sugarlabs.org, as well. (this is related, but does not actually answer above) If I recall correctly, recent releases of Pippy depend on box2d which is not yet packaged for Debian. This means newer Pippy releases will not work on next official Debian release (codenamed "Lenny"). I've tried but have had problems compiling it cleanly using newest gcc toolchain (if I recall correctly). - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl15AEACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi8UACfVUE1Qa6T5fltU5oC55v7aOtq kMsAoJwujsqw6Y12l50THI+HMWWN331n =YX2i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dirakx at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 12:05:14 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:05:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Olpc-open] Basic Maths? In-Reply-To: <20090120114241.yvql6npcbo8cgsgg@tastewar.com> References: <20090120114241.yvql6npcbo8cgsgg@tastewar.com> Message-ID: Rafael Ortiz ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tom Stewart Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:42 AM Subject: [Olpc-open] Basic Maths? To: olpc-open There is a Basic Math Game activity listed on the Math portal page (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Math), but when I download it to my XO, and attempt to Start it from the Journal, nothing appears to happen. Have others tried this activity? Should I expect it to work? If so, what can I do to troubleshoot? Thanks, --Tom _______________________________________________ Olpc-open mailing list Olpc-open at lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-open -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090120/3ecf341c/attachment.htm From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 12:11:31 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:11:31 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Hulahop moved to git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: No pootle changes necessary for this module. Marco From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 12:23:42 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:23:42 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: Sascha, The best person for this type of information would be alsroot (Alesksey Lim). He has been doing a lot of good work porting Sugar to different distributions. His jhconvert work also seems interesting:) david On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:40:46PM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: > >> On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer >> dependencies that are only in Intrepid. > > Thanks for the info. Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies > including versions. "sugar-jhbuild build" completed without errors, the > system just won't work. > This would also help in evaluating whether sugar-jhbuild could work on > Debian lenny at all. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time currently. > > CU Sascha > > -- > http://sascha.silbe.org/ > http://www.infra-silbe.de/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEVAwUBSXR2ubpz82VMF3DaAQIOywgAqetlUY9zQmdFxq3fvi8feL/HDqq7iFXd > kUa2jGkFD5vj5h9MIIz/cDofGo5fUKfWQUdzzHs1TqRhXCzVyWLBViFHcCkyLdvb > 6tY9tGb4E7qh+xfZIDsuVY421W4/ucmGUzEBD4yRT7YoVM2gnFRBmYLrySo3jrYr > 1YbsCwjAo1uDjBwHq0WDSG6cqh+uTaROKm+0wqSUWb2cIeTaxqGD9mmbo7lg2HrI > j03tEZLpD4xkUtViJNpdzdXGHIXOsAJbUpK3DBZDhI/D7zKgS5IbeCSELT8RDFCW > HJNz4deULS3lBzg5o5woppqCEDoQOMSx73D6ogWj6K/r3jP+3zDa9A== > =7bgI > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 12:31:24 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:31:24 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed Message-ID: Hello, I landed David work on jhbuild. Please do a clean build and report any issue you run into. David, I guess we should remove the slo-buildbot repository to avoid confusion and switch the buildbot to use sugar-jhbuild. Marco From olpc at spongezone.net Tue Jan 20 13:10:11 2009 From: olpc at spongezone.net (Nirav Patel) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:10:11 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: PyBox2D is included locally in the activity, just as it is in Physics, x2o, Bridge, and other Activities that use physics. Though, that is ~2.5mB of duplicated libraries for each. Nirav On 1/20/09, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:27:08PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it >>back in August. Since then there has been some development going into >>Pippy (now version 30) >>http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog >> >>But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even >>though I sent a reminder >>http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html >> >>Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to >>git.sugarlabs.org, as well. > > > (this is related, but does not actually answer above) > > If I recall correctly, recent releases of Pippy depend on box2d which is > not yet packaged for Debian. This means newer Pippy releases will not > work on next official Debian release (codenamed "Lenny"). > > I've tried but have had problems compiling it cleanly using newest gcc > toolchain (if I recall correctly). > > > - Jonas > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkl15AEACgkQn7DbMsAkQLi8UACfVUE1Qa6T5fltU5oC55v7aOtq > kMsAoJwujsqw6Y12l50THI+HMWWN331n > =YX2i > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From alsroot at member.fsf.org Tue Jan 20 13:21:08 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:21:08 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <20090118180334.GF5037@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <20090119124857.GA5031@twin.sascha.silbe.org> Message-ID: <20090120182108.GA22836@antilopa-gnu> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:48:57PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 01:40:46PM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: > >> On Ubuntu we're not supporting jhbuild on hardy any more, due to newer >> dependencies that are only in Intrepid. > Thanks for the info. Would be nice if there were a list of dependencies > including versions. "sugar-jhbuild build" completed without errors, the > system just won't work. > This would also help in evaluating whether sugar-jhbuild could work on > Debian lenny at all. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time currently. another option to find out missed dependencies is looking at jhbuild's dependencies: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/jhconvert/repos/mainline/trees/master/depends and releases configs: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/jhconvert/repos/mainline/blobs/master/releases -- Aleksey From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 13:38:17 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:38:17 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: slo-buildbot is removed. It will take a couple for the change to propagate through the buildbot network Can you also remove sugar-buildbot from git.sl.org? david On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > Hello, > > I landed David work on jhbuild. Please do a clean build and report any > issue you run into. David, I guess we should remove the slo-buildbot > repository to avoid confusion and switch the buildbot to use > sugar-jhbuild. > > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 13:50:13 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:50:13 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:38 PM, David Farning wrote: > slo-buildbot is removed. > It will take a couple for the change to propagate through the buildbot network > > Can you also remove sugar-buildbot from git.sl.org? I'll make it deprecated, would like to keep the sources around... Marco From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 20 14:03:58 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:03:58 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 01:10:11PM -0500, Nirav Patel wrote: >PyBox2D is included locally in the activity, just as it is in Physics, >x2o, Bridge, and other Activities that use physics. Though, that is >~2.5mB of duplicated libraries for each. ...which causes such .xo packages to *not* be arch-independent! ...and makes bugs in those libraries harder and slower to fix! Also, distributing such .xo packages violates license if not either the full source is included as well or a written statement promising to provide sources at no exceptional charge if later requested. Distributing binary stuff without its sources is not outright bad, but more complex and often more cumbersome: It is asking for "surprises"! - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl2IB4ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhNAACffwgkc893OlBMbSwKPd83UKdo 8RcAmwdeHIcpdVUmf6n87sOu6ApU0oFM =9s0G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From luke at faraone.cc Tue Jan 20 14:17:56 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:17:56 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901201117w10a779b9sda2c27c7b2496620@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 01:10:11PM -0500, Nirav Patel wrote: > >PyBox2D is included locally in the activity, just as it is in Physics, > >x2o, Bridge, and other Activities that use physics. Though, that is > >~2.5mB of duplicated libraries for each. > > ...which causes such .xo packages to *not* be arch-independent! > > ...and makes bugs in those libraries harder and slower to fix! ... which reiterates the need for a ".xos" package a la source debs/rpms so that I can run "xomake" to build the binary package, as well as proper dep handing both on the XO and elsewhere. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090120/9b88cffd/attachment-0001.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 16:35:49 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:35:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Log v14 Message-ID: <7087c32a0901201335s320be13j2f716c408eb4807b@mail.gmail.com> == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Log/Log-14.tar.bz2 == News == * New translations from Pootle. Wade PS- The above link does not work yet, I believe some synchronization step has yet to happen between the upload and download servers. From olpc at spongezone.net Tue Jan 20 17:21:47 2009 From: olpc at spongezone.net (Nirav Patel) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:21:47 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: I prefer to look at it pragmatically. Until there is some kind of dependency handling for .xo packages, this is the difference between a child at an existing deployment being able to browse to the wiki, download an activity, and use it, or not being able to. Nirav On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 01:10:11PM -0500, Nirav Patel wrote: >>PyBox2D is included locally in the activity, just as it is in Physics, >>x2o, Bridge, and other Activities that use physics. Though, that is >>~2.5mB of duplicated libraries for each. > > ...which causes such .xo packages to *not* be arch-independent! > > ...and makes bugs in those libraries harder and slower to fix! > > > Also, distributing such .xo packages violates license if not either the > full source is included as well or a written statement promising to > provide sources at no exceptional charge if later requested. > > Distributing binary stuff without its sources is not outright bad, but > more complex and often more cumbersome: It is asking for "surprises"! > > > > - Jonas From michael at laptop.org Tue Jan 20 17:52:17 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:52:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Summary and minutes from Pia's first Deployment Meeting. Message-ID: <20090120225217.GV3164@didacte.laptop.org> educators at lists.laptop.org Cc: Bcc: Dulmandakh Sukhbaatar , guadalupe, emiliano Subject: Summary and Minutes from the Jan 20, 2009 Deployment Meeting Reply-To: Hi everyone, Here is the summary and the edited minutes for the first of Pia's new deployment support meetings: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090120#Summary http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090120 Enjoy, and please consider joining us later today/tomorrow at 0800 UTC (0300 in Boston) in #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net to discuss the questions and comments raised in today's discussion or left waiting on pages like http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings or http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Wishlist Thanks! Michael (in his new-fangled volunteer capacity) P.S. - If you can't attend this week, please come next week instead! (And do read the minutes; they took forever to prepare... :) From walter.bender at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 18:13:03 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:13:03 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> Message-ID: Forwarding to list -walter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM Subject: sugar-jhbuild To: walter.bender at gmail.com Cc: paultz at gmail.com, rgesthuizen at gmail.com, Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au, billkerr at gmail.com, joel.stan at gmail.com Walter, I was wondering, would it be possible to make a live CD with Linux and sugar jhbuild and the source code for a few activities all on it and use that for teachers and students to hack and test activities? Tony From: Bill Kerr Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:19 PM Subject: sugar-jhbuild To: Paul T , Tony Forster , Roland Gesthuizen , "Costello, Rob R" < Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au> http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/02/23/building-the-xo-introducing-sugar/ this (old) article explains what sort of thing sugar-jhbuild is and where the jh in the name comes from - the 3 paragraphs under the 'Sugar Basics' heading this looks to me to be a better way to go than using emulators but still not easy the not easy quirkiness is confirmed by reading this: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_with_sugar-jhbuild joel told me that he was making an activity using sugar-jhbuild but ran into some buggy issues that he couldn't solve even with the help of a couple of the developers -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From luke at faraone.cc Tue Jan 20 18:18:54 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:18:54 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Nirav Patel wrote: > I prefer to look at it pragmatically. Until there is some kind of > dependency handling for .xo packages, this is the difference between a > child at an existing deployment being able to browse to the wiki, > download an activity, and use it, or not being able to. It's also the difference between following the license terms and not. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090120/1e7b441a/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 18:23:17 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901201523x663a9b73o154c3f29b0440f31@mail.gmail.com> It's important to separate the pragmatism from the license concern. I fully support the pragmatism of shipping libraries with activities as a temporary solution, if that's what is needed to make the activity work. If the license *requires* us to include the source code to the compiled module (is a link sufficient??) in the activity bundle, I guess we have to do that too. But that's a separate issue. Cheers, Wade On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Nirav Patel wrote: > >> I prefer to look at it pragmatically. Until there is some kind of >> dependency handling for .xo packages, this is the difference between a >> child at an existing deployment being able to browse to the wiki, >> download an activity, and use it, or not being able to. > > > It's also the difference between following the license terms and not. > > -- > Luke Faraone > http://luke.faraone.cc > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090120/d53b24a5/attachment.htm From cjb at laptop.org Tue Jan 20 18:24:48 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:24:48 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1__42894.2871433266$1232493661$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (Luke Faraone's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:18:54 -0500") References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1__42894.2871433266$1232493661$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, >> I prefer to look at it pragmatically. Until there is some kind of >> dependency handling for .xo packages, this is the difference >> between a child at an existing deployment being able to browse to >> the wiki, download an activity, and use it, or not being able to. > It's also the difference between following the license terms and > not. Not in the case we're discussing; Box2D and pyBox2D are not licensed under the GPL. While the complaint in general is reasonable, please don't accuse people of breaching software licenses until they actually do so. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From cjb at laptop.org Tue Jan 20 18:27:27 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:27:27 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901201523x663a9b73o154c3f29b0440f31__21587.740808218$1232493918$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (Wade Brainerd's message of "Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:23:17 -0500") References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901201523x663a9b73o154c3f29b0440f31__21587.740808218$1232493918$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, > If the license *requires* us to include the source code to the > compiled module (is a link sufficient??) in the activity bundle, I > guess we have to do that too. Yes, a link is sufficient. This is mostly a non-issue; it's just something we have to handle properly (with a written offer in the case of the GPL). - Chris. -- Chris Ball From olpc at spongezone.net Tue Jan 20 18:36:26 2009 From: olpc at spongezone.net (Nirav Patel) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:36:26 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1__42894.2871433266$1232493661$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Indeed. To bring things back to Pippy, Box2D and pyBox2D are both licensed zlib. Fulfilling the terms of the license is a simple as including http://code.google.com/p/pybox2d/source/browse/trunk/LICENSE somewhere in the .xo. Unfortunately, it seems none of the Activities using PyBox2D are currently doing so. Nirav On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > > Not in the case we're discussing; Box2D and pyBox2D are not licensed > under the GPL. While the complaint in general is reasonable, please > don't accuse people of breaching software licenses until they actually > do so. > > Thanks, > > - Chris. > -- > Chris Ball > From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 20 18:50:44 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:50:44 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <20090120144729.GZ24357@jones.dk> <20090120190358.GB24357@jones.dk> <2eaf0c620901201518u22dc5031pb0b8890264d321d1__42894.2871433266$1232493661$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090120235044.GJ24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 06:24:48PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote: >Hi, > > >> I prefer to look at it pragmatically. Until there is some kind of > >> dependency handling for .xo packages, this is the difference > >> between a child at an existing deployment being able to browse to > >> the wiki, download an activity, and use it, or not being able to. > > > It's also the difference between following the license terms and > > not. > >Not in the case we're discussing; Box2D and pyBox2D are not licensed >under the GPL. While the complaint in general is reasonable, please >don't accuse people of breaching software licenses until they actually >do so. I did not accuse of licensing breach, and I do not interpret Luke as doing so either. What I did was mention _some_ of the problems _generally_ tied to shipping .xo packages stuffed with binary chunks. - Jonas P.S. And a moment ago I succeeded compiling Box2d on amd64 using GCC 4.3.2. Still some way to go to have it properly compiled, but a good step in the right direction. - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl2Y1QACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgYTACgict1OtTCNyY5JdLm3HPpQt1B FzMAnje7qhRpGNe7f2V88dnQOi5Kd4Wi =VYVe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 19:13:12 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:13:12 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> Message-ID: Tony, As far as running Jhbuild, I would look at http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild It is quite a bit more up to date then the resources you are looking at. Have you seen the work that the Sugar on a Stick people are doing at http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick ? It is basically a live CD of Sugar running on a USB stick instead of a Live CD. This gives the user the option of saving their work. On the other hand, burning the .iso found on the SoaS page should get you a working Sugar based liveCD. Caroline Meeks is heading up this effort. thanks david On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > Forwarding to list > > -walter > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM > Subject: sugar-jhbuild > To: walter.bender at gmail.com > Cc: paultz at gmail.com, rgesthuizen at gmail.com, > Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au, billkerr at gmail.com, > joel.stan at gmail.com > > > Walter, > > I was wondering, would it be possible to make a live CD with Linux and > sugar jhbuild and the source code for a few activities all on it and > use that for teachers and students to hack and test activities? > > Tony > > From: Bill Kerr > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:19 PM > Subject: sugar-jhbuild > To: Paul T , Tony Forster , > Roland Gesthuizen , "Costello, Rob R" < > Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au> > > > http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/02/23/building-the-xo-introducing-sugar/ > > this (old) article explains what sort of thing sugar-jhbuild is and where > the jh in the name comes from - the 3 paragraphs under the 'Sugar Basics' > heading > > this looks to me to be a better way to go than using emulators but still not > easy > > the not easy quirkiness is confirmed by reading this: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_with_sugar-jhbuild > > joel told me that he was making an activity using sugar-jhbuild but ran into > some buggy issues that he couldn't solve even with the help of a couple of > the developers > > > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 20 19:18:41 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:18:41 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497669E1.7090002@schampijer.de> Gary C Martin wrote: > On 17 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > >> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> >>>> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If you >>>> resume by >>>> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose the >>>> undo >>>> functionality. >>> That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning >>> proposal, >>> what happened to that one? >> Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now >> resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the user >> clicked on its icon in the journal. >> >> It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions >> and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't gotten to >> implement it in something that can be released. >> >> So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume >> operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second >> place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which activities >> get stored in the journal. >> >> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting >> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >> try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to delay >> for a few days the release in case we find that something can be done >> and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. > > FWIW: I'd love to give it a whirl and provide some feedback, > unfortunately I only have access to Sugar on XO hardware ? so I'm out > of such early test/debug/feedback loop until things land in Joyride > (or some future equivalent). > > --G The 0.83.4 did land in joyride build 2631. Release Notes are here and will be officially announced tomorrow. http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 Not sure all the activities have been made available in olpc places. I will post more details later, Marco is working as well on SoaS at the moment as a way to test things. Cheers, Simon From gary at garycmartin.com Tue Jan 20 20:01:41 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:01:41 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <497669E1.7090002@schampijer.de> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <497669E1.7090002@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <87EB7A48-0822-4C66-BB93-7A2334D5CB4E@garycmartin.com> On 21 Jan 2009, at 00:18, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Gary C Martin wrote: >> On 17 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe >>> wrote: >>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>>> >>>>> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If >>>>> you resume by >>>>> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose >>>>> the undo >>>>> functionality. >>>> That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning >>>> proposal, >>>> what happened to that one? >>> Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now >>> resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the >>> user >>> clicked on its icon in the journal. >>> >>> It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions >>> and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't >>> gotten to >>> implement it in something that can be released. >>> >>> So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume >>> operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second >>> place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which >>> activities >>> get stored in the journal. >>> >>> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting >>> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >>> try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to >>> delay >>> for a few days the release in case we find that something can be >>> done >>> and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. >> FWIW: I'd love to give it a whirl and provide some feedback, >> unfortunately I only have access to Sugar on XO hardware ? so I'm >> out of such early test/debug/feedback loop until things land in >> Joyride (or some future equivalent). >> --G > > The 0.83.4 did land in joyride build 2631. Release Notes are here > and will be officially announced tomorrow. http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 Simon, thanks for the heads up! I'd just plumped to try 2631 having seen the build changes, but good to know it's the one to start pushing on. The download has been taking a long time so far, will start giving it whirl tomorrow. > Not sure all the activities have been made available in olpc places. I'll dig through the recent [RELEASE] emails for any activities I start to re-test, and make sure I get the intended .xo bundles for each. Will post the list of .xo URLs here, I guess ideally this needs to be checked against the list that Activities/Joyride is handing out. Might be some dance needed to make sure we don't break 'latest' non- Joyride links ? hmmmm, have a vague funny feeling there's still some outstanding issue stopping activity authors updating the links? Will go and remind myself once I have the list of needed Joyride activities. Thanks, --Gary > I will post more details later, Marco is working as well on SoaS at > the moment as a way to test things. > > Cheers, > Simon From bert at freudenbergs.de Tue Jan 20 20:03:50 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:03:50 +0900 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <251C3AAF-50D6-4BDF-8A9A-113CCE9E8299@freudenbergs.de> On 21.01.2009, at 02:31, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > Hello, > > I landed David work on jhbuild. Please do a clean build and report any > issue you run into. David, I guess we should remove the slo-buildbot > repository to avoid confusion and switch the buildbot to use > sugar-jhbuild. David reported that squeak doesn't build anymore, apparently a superfluous "/trunk" gets tucked onto its SVN url. - Bert - From bernie at codewiz.org Tue Jan 20 22:41:09 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:41:09 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild in Gitorious Message-ID: <49769955.2000604@codewiz.org> Ciao, I finally tracked down and fixed the reason why the sugar-jhbuild project was causing Gitorious to die with a 500 Internal Server Error. There were 2 records in table committerships referring to user_id=53, which did not exist. This would make the template engine blow up with an exception while rendering the main project page. The errant user_id belonged to a user who got locked out and had asked to be deleted. Now we know to be careful not to break referential integrity if we ever need to hack the database again :-) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 20 22:51:04 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:51:04 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress Message-ID: Hello, I spent some time trying to get Sugar on a stick images (which are basically livecd-tools based Fedora spins) running on the XO from nand. Converting the image to jffs2 and adding cafe_nand and jffs2 to the initrd was enough to make it boot. I have two weird problems: 1 haldaemon fails to start and I couldn't find any error log. 2 X "fades" a couple of times and then hangs the system. I can reproduce 2 if I write the same image to an usb stick using Fedora XO livecd-iso-to-disk. Could be either a regression in the F10 updates or something wrong in the way SoaS images are built. I have absolutely no idea about 1, but it would seem to be related to jffs2/initrd, since it works fine from the usb stick. Marco From billkerr at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:36:44 2009 From: billkerr at gmail.com (Bill Kerr) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:06:44 +1030 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> Message-ID: <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM, David Farning wrote: > Tony, > > As far as running Jhbuild, I would look at > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild It is quite a bit more > up to date then the resources you are looking at. > > Have you seen the work that the Sugar on a Stick people are doing at > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick ? > > It is basically a live CD of Sugar running on a USB stick instead of a > Live CD. This gives the user the option of saving their work. > > On the other hand, burning the .iso found on the SoaS page should get > you a working Sugar based liveCD. > > Caroline Meeks is heading up this effort. > > thanks > david So is sugar on a stick a suitable development environment. Could it be used as an environment for minor hacking of say, turtle art and saving changes? My understanding is that since Sugar is written in Python and Python is an interpreted language then the answer to my question might be yes. Is there anything missing from sugar on a stick that developers who use sugar-jhbuild value and use regularly? Would a developer be inconvenienced in some way by using sugar on a stick? Are some version of sugar on a stick better or worse than others for say hacking turtle art? eg. as well as the official version there is Wolfgang Rohrmoser's version. Is that equivalent? Is there any advantage to using sugar-jhbuild, instead of sugar on a stick? For educators who are not developers using sugar on a stick looks more convenient. ie. to get sugar-jhbuild you need a linux computer, git and then sort through dependency problems as they arise. Bread and butter for developers but not everyones cup of tea. There are also technical complexities involved in using emulators with the added disadvantage that they might run slow. I'm aware that some developers of other software use IDEs such as Eclipse which contain a full suite of useful tools for development. I've never used Eclipse but have used briefly similar sorts of tools (well some of them) in Smalltalk / Squeak. That is the sort of distinction I'm inquiring about - but there may be other important distinctions that I'm not aware of - you don't know what you don't know. Our goal here is simply to put the toe in the water and be able to hack turtle art, as a starter. The blockage point identified here is a convenient way to obtain a developers environment. Known unknowns: All the things you know you don't know Unknown unknowns: All the things you don't know you don't know Errors: All the things you think you know but don't Unknown knowns: All the things you don't know you know Taboos: Dangerous, polluting or forbidden knowledge Denials: All the things too painful to know, so you don't > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: > > Forwarding to list > > > > -walter > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: > > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM > > Subject: sugar-jhbuild > > To: walter.bender at gmail.com > > Cc: paultz at gmail.com, rgesthuizen at gmail.com, > > Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au, billkerr at gmail.com, > > joel.stan at gmail.com > > > > > > Walter, > > > > I was wondering, would it be possible to make a live CD with Linux and > > sugar jhbuild and the source code for a few activities all on it and > > use that for teachers and students to hack and test activities? > > > > Tony > > > > From: Bill Kerr > > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:19 PM > > Subject: sugar-jhbuild > > To: Paul T , Tony Forster , > > Roland Gesthuizen , "Costello, Rob R" < > > Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au> > > > > > > http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/02/23/building-the-xo-introducing-sugar/ > > > > this (old) article explains what sort of thing sugar-jhbuild is and where > > the jh in the name comes from - the 3 paragraphs under the 'Sugar Basics' > > heading > > > > this looks to me to be a better way to go than using emulators but still > not > > easy > > > > the not easy quirkiness is confirmed by reading this: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_with_sugar-jhbuild > > > > joel told me that he was making an activity using sugar-jhbuild but ran > into > > some buggy issues that he couldn't solve even with the help of a couple > of > > the developers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Walter Bender > > Sugar Labs > > http://www.sugarlabs.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/84774ef9/attachment-0001.htm From morgan.collett at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 05:05:47 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:05:47 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Poll activity moved to git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/poll/ Sayamindu, please switch Pootle to the new location - I've added it as a committer. I've updated it in jhbuild - it's an extra activity you can include with "./sugar-jhbuild buildone poll". Regards Morgan From morgan.collett at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 05:15:04 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:15:04 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] CartoonBuilder moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: <20090118010234.GA15260@antilopa-gnu> References: <20090118010234.GA15260@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 03:02, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > CartoonBuilder moved to git.sugarlabs.org I've updated sugar-jhbuild with the new repo. sugar-jhbuild buildone cartoon-builder Regards Morgan From morgan.collett at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 05:15:31 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:15:31 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Flipsticks moved to git.sugarlabs.org In-Reply-To: <20090118010339.GB15260@antilopa-gnu> References: <20090118010339.GB15260@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 03:03, Aleksey Lim wrote: > Hi all, > > Flipsticks moved to git.sugarlabs.org I've updated sugar-jhbuild with the new repo. sugar-jhbuild buildone flipsticks Regards Morgan From walter.bender at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 07:03:51 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:03:51 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Turtle Art Portfolio v-4 Message-ID: I posted the latest version of the Portfolio tool at http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/4/42/TurtleArtPortfolio-4.xo (this is the version I will be using to give my talk at LCA tomorrow). Please exercise it and also please let me know what you think of the overall approach. (Note that I moved the Turtle Art menus to the Toolbar. I am considering merging these changes with the Turtle Art program.) Note that there is some preliminary documentation in the wiki at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/TAPortfolio thanks. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From simon at schampijer.de Wed Jan 21 07:33:13 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:33:13 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] sugar-jhbuild in Gitorious In-Reply-To: <49769955.2000604@codewiz.org> References: <49769955.2000604@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <49771609.9000008@schampijer.de> Bernie Innocenti wrote: > Ciao, > > I finally tracked down and fixed the reason why the sugar-jhbuild > project was causing Gitorious to die with a 500 Internal Server Error. > > There were 2 records in table committerships referring to user_id=53, > which did not exist. This would make the template engine blow up with > an exception while rendering the main project page. > > The errant user_id belonged to a user who got locked out and had asked > to be deleted. Now we know to be careful not to break referential > integrity if we ever need to hack the database again :-) > Oh, nice one. Thanks for tracking it down Bernie. Cheers, Simon From simon at schampijer.de Wed Jan 21 08:00:33 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:00:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Log v14 In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901201335s320be13j2f716c408eb4807b@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901201335s320be13j2f716c408eb4807b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49771C71.5070805@schampijer.de> Hi Wade, we were at version 16 already - this was in the 0.82 branch so hard to discover :/ http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/log-activity;a=shortlog;h=sucrose-0.82 Can you make another release v17? (you can use the -v command when using the release script). Wade Brainerd wrote: > == Source == > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Log/Log-14.tar.bz2 > > == News == > > * New translations from Pootle. > > Wade > > PS- The above link does not work yet, I believe some synchronization > step has yet to happen between the upload and download servers. It did not show up until now. Normally it is a hourly script. Bernie fixed it yesterday. Maybe another error. Bernie, any idea? The file is uploaded fine on shell.sugarlabs.org. Thanks, Simon From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 09:30:26 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:30:26 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Bill Kerr wrote: > So is sugar on a stick a suitable development environment. Could it be used > as an environment for minor hacking of say, turtle art and saving changes? > > My understanding is that since Sugar is written in Python and Python is an > interpreted language then the answer to my question might be yes. > > Is there anything missing from sugar on a stick that developers who use > sugar-jhbuild value and use regularly? Would a developer be inconvenienced > in some way by using sugar on a stick? For activity development sugar-jhbuild has *no* advantages at all over SoaS. Things are more complicated for core hacking, but that doesn't seem what you are looking into. Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 09:32:28 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:32:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Search broken on git.sugarlabs.org Message-ID: I think it was fixed some time ago, but now it's back not working. Marco From cjb at laptop.org Wed Jan 21 09:39:47 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:39:47 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: (Marco Pesenti Gritti's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2009 04:51:04 +0100") References: Message-ID: Hi Marco, > Hello, I spent some time trying to get Sugar on a stick images > (which are basically livecd-tools based Fedora spins) running on > the XO from nand. Converting the image to jffs2 and adding > cafe_nand and jffs2 to the initrd was enough to make it boot. You're awesome! Thanks! > 1 haldaemon fails to start and I couldn't find any error log. Maybe running it directly, rather than via init, will expose the problem? > 2 X "fades" a couple of times and then hangs the system. Happy to look into this. > I can reproduce 2 if I write the same image to an usb stick using > Fedora XO livecd-iso-to-disk. Could be either a regression in the > F10 updates or something wrong in the way SoaS images are built. I > have absolutely no idea about 1, but it would seem to be related to > jffs2/initrd, since it works fine from the usb stick. It looks like you're making F10 spins, then? I wonder what happens if you try a Rawhide spin instead. Could you share your instructions and code? I'd like to give this technique a try for our F11 rebase. (At which point the difference between OLPC's image and SoaS will be very small. Maybe there'll be no difference at all, even. ;-) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 10:26:00 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:26:00 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Bill Kerr wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:43 AM, David Farning > wrote: >> >> Tony, >> >> As far as running Jhbuild, I would look at >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild It is quite a bit more >> up to date then the resources you are looking at. >> >> Have you seen the work that the Sugar on a Stick people are doing at >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick ? >> >> It is basically a live CD of Sugar running on a USB stick instead of a >> Live CD. This gives the user the option of saving their work. >> >> On the other hand, burning the .iso found on the SoaS page should get >> you a working Sugar based liveCD. >> >> Caroline Meeks is heading up this effort. >> >> thanks >> david > > So is sugar on a stick a suitable development environment. Could it be used > as an environment for minor hacking of say, turtle art and saving changes? SoaS is an ideal environment for learning. There is no way to damage the underlying system. All changes are saved on the USB stick. If you screw something up, you can just re-flash the USB and start with a fresh installation. It is very handy for experimentation. > My understanding is that since Sugar is written in Python and Python is an > interpreted language then the answer to my question might be yes. Yes, the user (budding developer) can hack at will on the activities. > Is there anything missing from sugar on a stick that developers who use > sugar-jhbuild value and use regularly? Would a developer be inconvenienced > in some way by using sugar on a stick? As marco pointed out, some of the core sugar pieces are written in C. Development of those portions of the stack would be harder to develop and test under sugar on a stick. Luckily, you can install jhbuild on SoaS:) The space constraints might get tight:( > Are some version of sugar on a stick better or worse than others for say > hacking turtle art? eg. as well as the official version there is Wolfgang > Rohrmoser's version. Is that equivalent? I would recommend using the official SoaS or distribution LiveCD. They are not necessarily better. But, they will have stronger support. > Is there any advantage to using sugar-jhbuild, instead of sugar on a stick? > For educators who are not developers using sugar on a stick looks more > convenient. ie. to get sugar-jhbuild you need a linux computer, git and then > sort through dependency problems as they arise. Bread and butter for > developers but not everyones cup of tea. There are also technical > complexities involved in using emulators with the added disadvantage that > they might run slow. > > I'm aware that some developers of other software use IDEs such as Eclipse > which contain a full suite of useful tools for development. I've never used > Eclipse but have used briefly similar sorts of tools (well some of them) in > Smalltalk / Squeak. That is the sort of distinction I'm inquiring about - > but there may be other important distinctions that I'm not aware of - you > don't know what you don't know. This is an interesting question. What editors would be available If you use SoaS? We will have to ask marco about that. The hacker editors are not going to be very good for dipping your toes in the code. david > Our goal here is simply to put the toe in the water and be able to hack > turtle art, as a starter. The blockage point identified here is a convenient > way to obtain a developers environment. > > > Known unknowns: All the things you know you don't know > Unknown unknowns: All the things you don't know you don't know > Errors: All the things you think you know but don't > Unknown knowns: All the things you don't know you know > Taboos: Dangerous, polluting or forbidden knowledge > Denials: All the things too painful to know, so you don't > > > > > >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >> > Forwarding to list >> > >> > -walter >> > >> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > From: >> > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM >> > Subject: sugar-jhbuild >> > To: walter.bender at gmail.com >> > Cc: paultz at gmail.com, rgesthuizen at gmail.com, >> > Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au, billkerr at gmail.com, >> > joel.stan at gmail.com >> > >> > >> > Walter, >> > >> > I was wondering, would it be possible to make a live CD with Linux and >> > sugar jhbuild and the source code for a few activities all on it and >> > use that for teachers and students to hack and test activities? >> > >> > Tony >> > >> > From: Bill Kerr >> > Date: Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:19 PM >> > Subject: sugar-jhbuild >> > To: Paul T , Tony Forster , >> > Roland Gesthuizen , "Costello, Rob R" < >> > Costello.Rob.R at edumail.vic.gov.au> >> > >> > >> > http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/02/23/building-the-xo-introducing-sugar/ >> > >> > this (old) article explains what sort of thing sugar-jhbuild is and >> > where >> > the jh in the name comes from - the 3 paragraphs under the 'Sugar >> > Basics' >> > heading >> > >> > this looks to me to be a better way to go than using emulators but still >> > not >> > easy >> > >> > the not easy quirkiness is confirmed by reading this: >> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_with_sugar-jhbuild >> > >> > joel told me that he was making an activity using sugar-jhbuild but ran >> > into >> > some buggy issues that he couldn't solve even with the help of a couple >> > of >> > the developers >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Walter Bender >> > Sugar Labs >> > http://www.sugarlabs.org >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > > From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 10:37:33 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:37:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM, David Farning wrote: > This is an interesting question. What editors would be available If > you use SoaS? We will have to ask marco about that. The hacker > editors are not going to be very good for dipping your toes in the > code. Personally I find full IDE overkill for python (or at least, I didn't find one that provides all the cool tools that Eclipse provide for java). So I'm using gedit, which is pretty non-hacker friendly btw. Note that on SoaS you could just run an IDE/editor in GNOME, tweak/write code and run sugar in the Xephyr emulator to test. (I think the wiki has instructions on how to switch the default desktop to be GNOME). Marco From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 11:03:02 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:03:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed In-Reply-To: <251C3AAF-50D6-4BDF-8A9A-113CCE9E8299@freudenbergs.de> References: <251C3AAF-50D6-4BDF-8A9A-113CCE9E8299@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <242851610901210803s58a7a163i27a161b1821d4911@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 02:03, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > On 21.01.2009, at 02:31, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I landed David work on jhbuild. Please do a clean build and report any >> issue you run into. David, I guess we should remove the slo-buildbot >> repository to avoid confusion and switch the buildbot to use >> sugar-jhbuild. > > > David reported that squeak doesn't build anymore, apparently a > superfluous "/trunk" gets tucked onto its SVN url. Fixed, needed updating the repo to the new jhbuild syntax. http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/commits/f789f23a Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 11:13:21 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:13:21 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed In-Reply-To: <242851610901210803s58a7a163i27a161b1821d4911@mail.gmail.com> References: <251C3AAF-50D6-4BDF-8A9A-113CCE9E8299@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901210803s58a7a163i27a161b1821d4911@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901210813l4f116634jb575222ee67f13a4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 02:03, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> >> On 21.01.2009, at 02:31, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I landed David work on jhbuild. Please do a clean build and report any >>> issue you run into. David, I guess we should remove the slo-buildbot >>> repository to avoid confusion and switch the buildbot to use >>> sugar-jhbuild. >> >> >> David reported that squeak doesn't build anymore, apparently a >> superfluous "/trunk" gets tucked onto its SVN url. > > Fixed, needed updating the repo to the new jhbuild syntax. > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/commits/f789f23a Sorry, now it is: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/commits/b19439c9 Tomeu From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 11:28:58 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:28:58 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901210828n1301cbc3x56f9b1c70ffeaf12@mail.gmail.com> I find it's most effective to run Sugar in a VM or second machine (XO for example). Then I can use any editor I want (Komodo is my preference for Python) to remotely edit files over a SFTP connection. -Wade On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti < marcopg at sugarlabs.org> wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM, David Farning > wrote: > > This is an interesting question. What editors would be available If > > you use SoaS? We will have to ask marco about that. The hacker > > editors are not going to be very good for dipping your toes in the > > code. > > Personally I find full IDE overkill for python (or at least, I didn't > find one that provides all the cool tools that Eclipse provide for > java). So I'm using gedit, which is pretty non-hacker friendly btw. > > Note that on SoaS you could just run an IDE/editor in GNOME, > tweak/write code and run sugar in the Xephyr emulator to test. (I > think the wiki has instructions on how to switch the default desktop > to be GNOME). > > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/df9d4cbd/attachment.htm From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 11:32:08 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:32:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: sugar-jhbuild In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901210828n1301cbc3x56f9b1c70ffeaf12@mail.gmail.com> References: <200901202027.n0KKR0du014515@smtp.ozonline.com.au> <5d2dce520901202036n25052acbm93c7021258db4271@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901210828n1301cbc3x56f9b1c70ffeaf12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I find it's most effective to run Sugar in a VM or second machine (XO for > example). Then I can use any editor I want (Komodo is my preference for > Python) to remotely edit files over a SFTP connection. Yeah, my point is that you can do the same on SoaS without the overhead of emulation or of a second machine... You do all the hacking inside GNOME and you run sugar-emulator (i.e. Xephyr). Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 11:36:04 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:36:04 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > 1 haldaemon fails to start and I couldn't find any error log. > > Maybe running it directly, rather than via init, will expose the > problem? When running it directly it was sitting for a while and then exiting without any error (even in verbose mode). I should strace it. > It looks like you're making F10 spins, then? I wonder what happens if > you try a Rawhide spin instead. Could you share your instructions and > code? I'd like to give this technique a try for our F11 rebase. I did it in a very manual/hacky way yesterday. Working right now on doing it more cleanly, scripting a little and documenting, will post something later tonight. > (At which point the difference between OLPC's image and SoaS will be > very small. Maybe there'll be no difference at all, even. ;-) Right, that's where I want to get :) Marco From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 11:53:41 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:53:41 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <242851610901210853rce143a1i15f18f357cc61e51@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 17:36, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> > 1 haldaemon fails to start and I couldn't find any error log. >> >> Maybe running it directly, rather than via init, will expose the >> problem? > > When running it directly it was sitting for a while and then exiting > without any error (even in verbose mode). I should strace it. I would gdb it first and only if that turns out being hard, then try my luck with strace. Regards, Tomeu From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 12:10:22 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:10:22 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Extensive jhbuild refactoring landed In-Reply-To: <242851610901210813l4f116634jb575222ee67f13a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <251C3AAF-50D6-4BDF-8A9A-113CCE9E8299@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901210803s58a7a163i27a161b1821d4911@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901210813l4f116634jb575222ee67f13a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, It is working well now. david On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 17:03, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 02:03, Bert Freudenberg wrote: >>> >>> On 21.01.2009, at 02:31, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I landed David work on jhbuild. Please do a clean build and report any >>>> issue you run into. David, I guess we should remove the slo-buildbot >>>> repository to avoid confusion and switch the buildbot to use >>>> sugar-jhbuild. >>> >>> >>> David reported that squeak doesn't build anymore, apparently a >>> superfluous "/trunk" gets tucked onto its SVN url. >> >> Fixed, needed updating the repo to the new jhbuild syntax. >> >> http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/commits/f789f23a > > Sorry, now it is: > > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar-jhbuild/repos/mainline/commits/b19439c9 > > Tomeu > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 12:24:00 2009 From: christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com (Christoph Derndorfer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:24:00 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] 1-click way to add extra fonts? Message-ID: Hi all, is there any simple 1-click way to add extra .ttf fonts to Sugar? While the manual way (creating /usr/share/fonts/truetype, copying the .ttf files) is easy enough for most people I'm looking at a scenario where a teacher is trying to add fonts to 25 XOs. So it's quite obvious that the manual way is a bit impractical... If such a simple solution doesn't exist at this time we should think about creating one. Maybe an activity with .ttf as its MIME type that takes downloaded .ttf files and put them in the right location. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions? Thanks. Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christoph at olpcnews.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/6ff9e495/attachment.htm From dr at jones.dk Wed Jan 21 12:39:08 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:39:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] 1-click way to add extra fonts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090121173908.GQ24357@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 05:24:00PM +0000, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: >is there any simple 1-click way to add extra .ttf fonts to Sugar? > >While the manual way (creating /usr/share/fonts/truetype, copying the .ttf >files) is easy enough for most people I'm looking at a scenario where a >teacher is trying to add fonts to 25 XOs. So it's quite obvious that the >manual way is a bit impractical... Instead of /usr/share/fonts/truetype (which requires root access, I believe) you should be able to store fonts below ~/.fonts (i.e. /home/sugar/.fonts if username is "sugar"). And you really do not need to store in subdirectories. Still not 1-click... - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl3XbwACgkQn7DbMsAkQLggDwCeKpBMfNEUyWPge+1wyNOlsFfY A5wAnjbizO5wNK2YgiBOqImsXWLmFkKz =se6l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From simon at schampijer.de Wed Jan 21 13:28:28 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:28:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release Message-ID: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> Dear Sugar Community, Since, this date is Feature, API and String freeze everyone was busy getting their features in. From a user point of view we want to highlight the following: === Naming alert on journal entry creation === The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or meaning to the user. That is why an alert has been added that encourage the user to set the title and other properties, like available in the journal detail view, of a newly created journal entry. This alert is only shown on the creation of a new journal entry, not on resume. === Display recent activities in the home view === In order to make easier to continue past work, the home view will display recent entries in the activity palettes. You can decide if you want the activity icons to represent the last journal entry with a new setting in the favourites view palette: === Journal === Tomeu Vizoso has been doing a wonderful work of bringing the journal implementation closer to it's design.The Object chooser can now be filtered by data type. A favourite filter has been added to the journal toolbar to give a better way of marking entries as 'important'. More regression fixes went into the support of removable devices after moving from maintaining an index file on the device to the use of POSIX calls. === New ColorToolButton Widget === Benjamin Berg added a new ColorToolButton widget. It is already in use in the Write activity to select a colour for the text. === Control Panel=== The 'About my XO' section has been renamed to 'About my Computer' to reflect the use of Sugar on non-XO hardware. Morgan Collett added the possibility to change the jabber server without restarting Sugar. === Autoconnect to Access Point === NetworkManager does autoconnect on Sugar startup to the last Access Point you were connected successfully to. === Logout Option === Sayamindu Dasgupta added a logout option to the xomenu. Eben Eliason added the accessibility of the xomenu to the groups and mesh view and to the friends tray in the frame. === New Logic for the devices positions === The logic to position the frame devices has been reworked. Plug in your devices and try it out. [500 external devices eg. USB drive] [400 3rd party devices eg. speech] [300 transient connection devices eg. AP] [200 transient devices eg. camera] [100 static devices eg. battery] === Table of Content Support in Read === The Read activity now shows the Table of Content for PDF files which support this feature. This eases navigation of large PDF files considerably. === Acknowledgment === A big thanks goes to all the translators, that are working so hard to make Sugar a terrific localized environment and the infrastructure team that provides our members with tools and services to make their live easier. Thanks everyone for your great contributions! You can find more details and screenshots at [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 The Sucrose Release Schedule can be found here [2] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap#Schedule In behalf of the sugar community, Your Release Team _____________________________________________________ == Glucose news == === sugar-toolkit === * separate debug settings from xsession {{Bug|163}} * show an alert on activity close for suggesting the user to set properties of the entry {{Bug|215}} * add a colorpicker to Sugar, only the ColorToolButton is public for now * move the palette to new style gobject properties * {{OlpcBug|3060}} Add the possibility of filtering the object chooser by data type * fix uninstallling of activities that use symlinks {{Bug|171}} * remove the hacks for asking the X server for screenshots and use gtk.Widget.get_snapshot() instead === sugar === * make the journal entries in the favorites palette resumable * simplify the constants used to identify favorite layouts * separate debug settings from xsession {{Bug|163}} * add logout option {{Bug|207}} to xomenu (sayamindu, icon by eben) * change jabber server without sugar restart {{Bug|142}} * About my XO -> About my Computer * {{Bug|196}} Fix setting the timezone in debian * autoconnect to AP that we connected to last {{Bug|8}} * add a favorites mode setting for deciding if the favorites view resumes by default or not * resume by default the last activity from the favorites view * implement filtering by file type for removable devices * {{Bug|132}} Filter by timestamp, not by mtime * add support for text queries on removable devices * dont abort if we cannot read a file from a removable device * add a favorite filter to the journal toolbar * sanitize the file name when we copy to removable devices * {{Bug|36}} Refresh the detailed view when the entry changes * {{Bug|38}} Refresh full metadata when editing so we dont lose properties * Focus Search is not exposed via dbus anymore {{Bug|89}} * {{Bug|131}} 'open with' does not work for clipboard item * {{Bug|165}} Install bundles when they get into the journal * add Resume item to the file transfer palette * {{Bug|126}} Fix erase button in the journal * following eben's spec for the device positions === sugar-base === * Don't print logs to tty instead of shell.log in the emulator * Trivial port to GIO instead of GnomeVFS === sugar-presence-service === * {{Bug|142}} Restart a server-based collaboration session / switch servers on the fly === sugar-datastore === * {{Bug|181}} Replace deprecated os.popen by subprocess * {{Bug|140}} Crash when joining a shared Read === sugar-artwork === * add activity-journal icon to artwork * add system-logout icon (part of {{Bug|207}}) * add everything needed for the colorpicker. That is a small icon and a bit in the gtkrc. * fix triangular arrows by looking at the parent_bg_color option * add icons for object transfers === etoys === * offer full authoring-tools menu to all users * make Anthy based Japanese input work * add About flap on start screen * enable screen scaling a bit more eagerly * include icons for mimetypes == Fructose news == === calculate === * Support 'real' scientific notation {{OlpcBug|4250}} * Add switching between exponential/scientific notation * Allow changing of number of displayed digits * Change cursor on equations to Hand {{OlpcBug|6612}} * Fix fall-through of unhandled CTRL keys (eg CTRL+Q) * Add recursion detection * Fixed error-handling bug === read === * {{OlpcBug|7343}} Enable a horizontal scroll bar * {{OlpcBug|2837}} Implement TOC navigation in Read (sayamindu) * {{Bug|145}} Prevent object chooser appearing when joining a shared session === browse === * use cjson instead of json (nirbheek) * new translations === chat === * use cjson instead of simple-json (nirbheek) * Updated translations: he, en_US, sv === write === * Make use of the ColorToolButton that benzea landed in sugar-toolkit * {{OlpcBug|3060}} Filter object chooser so it shows only images * {{OlpcBug|8972}} Save to OpenDocument if we cannot export in the original format From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 13:35:40 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:35:40 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Log v14 In-Reply-To: <49771C71.5070805@schampijer.de> References: <7087c32a0901201335s320be13j2f716c408eb4807b@mail.gmail.com> <49771C71.5070805@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901211035r7a62c1dvd86455dd322535b4@mail.gmail.com> Yikes, I had no idea bout the branch on dev.laptop.org - it wasn't even moved over to git.sugarlabs.org in the migration! I'll try and merge the branches after work tonight and release v17. -Wade On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:00 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Hi Wade, > > we were at version 16 already - this was in the 0.82 branch so hard to > discover :/ > http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/log-activity;a=shortlog;h=sucrose-0.82 > > Can you make another release v17? (you can use the -v command when using > the release script). > > > Wade Brainerd wrote: > >> == Source == >> >> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Log/Log-14.tar.bz2 >> > > > >> == News == >> >> * New translations from Pootle. >> >> Wade >> >> PS- The above link does not work yet, I believe some synchronization >> step has yet to happen between the upload and download servers. >> > > It did not show up until now. Normally it is a hourly script. Bernie fixed > it yesterday. Maybe another error. > > Bernie, any idea? The file is uploaded fine on shell.sugarlabs.org. > > Thanks, > Simon > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/4ae51576/attachment.htm From bryan at olenepal.org Wed Jan 21 13:41:14 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:41:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] awesome demo of flex Message-ID: <1232563274.7079.1.camel@hitman> http://flex.org/tour Is there anyway to get pygtk or js+html+css to compete w/ this? This tour is really impressive. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From morgan.collett at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 13:44:20 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:44:20 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Log v14 In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901211035r7a62c1dvd86455dd322535b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901201335s320be13j2f716c408eb4807b@mail.gmail.com> <49771C71.5070805@schampijer.de> <7087c32a0901211035r7a62c1dvd86455dd322535b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 20:35, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Yikes, I had no idea bout the branch on dev.laptop.org - it wasn't even > moved over to git.sugarlabs.org in the migration! > I'll try and merge the branches after work tonight and release v17. > -Wade For the benefit of those yet to move over, http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git#Import_a_module_from_dev.laptop.org says: * See all the remote branches with: git remote show origin * Check out the remote branches you want to migrate, e.g. git checkout -b sucrose-0.82 origin/sucrose-0.82 * Push it to git.sugarlabs.org with something like: git push gitorious at git.sugarlabs.org:sugar/mainline.git --mirror So you need to manually look at, and check out, the branches you want to migrate over. Regards Morgan From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 13:46:55 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:46:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Log v14 In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901201335s320be13j2f716c408eb4807b@mail.gmail.com> <49771C71.5070805@schampijer.de> <7087c32a0901211035r7a62c1dvd86455dd322535b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901211046x4e679343v92df67597ee2a673@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, an activity specific variant of these instructions exists at http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/How_to_migrate_from_OLPC I didn't think to look for a branch when migrating it though. -Wade On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 20:35, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > Yikes, I had no idea bout the branch on dev.laptop.org - it wasn't even > > moved over to git.sugarlabs.org in the migration! > > I'll try and merge the branches after work tonight and release v17. > > -Wade > > For the benefit of those yet to move over, > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git#Import_a_module_from_dev.laptop.org > says: > > * See all the remote branches with: > > git remote show origin > > * Check out the remote branches you want to migrate, e.g. > > git checkout -b sucrose-0.82 origin/sucrose-0.82 > > * Push it to git.sugarlabs.org with something like: > > git push gitorious at git.sugarlabs.org:sugar/mainline.git --mirror > > So you need to manually look at, and check out, the branches you want > to migrate over. > > Regards > Morgan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/e7e5d579/attachment-0001.htm From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Wed Jan 21 13:49:11 2009 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:49:11 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities Message-ID: <49776E27.7070009@projetofedora.org> Hello Guys! How can i call an activity from shell ? Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar browser activity? How can i do that ? -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 13:54:52 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:54:52 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: <49776E27.7070009@projetofedora.org> References: <49776E27.7070009@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901211054i3a7f33fen8442809abe5d6823@mail.gmail.com> From cjb at laptop.org Wed Jan 21 13:52:05 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:52:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: <49776E27.7070009__43727.190179243$1232563820$gmane$org@projetofedora.org> (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:49:11 -0200") References: <49776E27.7070009__43727.190179243$1232563820$gmane$org@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: Hi, > How can i call an activity from shell ? e.g. "sugar-launch Pippy" > Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar > browser activity? How can i do that ? Not from HTML. From activity code, you can insert the new activity's bundle into the Journal and switch to its new Journal page, which is what Browse does when you download a .xo. - Chris. -- Chris Ball From dirakx at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 14:17:50 2009 From: dirakx at gmail.com (Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:17:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Olpc-open] Rochester, NY OLPC XO User's Meeting Tonight, 22 Jan 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fyi :) Rafael Ortiz ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Frederick Grose Date: Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:46 PM Subject: [Olpc-open] Rochester, NY OLPC XO User's Meeting Tonight, 22 Jan 2009 To: olpc-open at lists.laptop.org Announcement Reminder: OLPC XO User's Meeting 22 January 2009 - 7:00 to 8:50 pm - Room 1400, Building 70, RIT The Laboratory for Technological Literacy at RIT is sponsoring an OLPC XO Laptop user's group in 2009. All meetings will be held in B. Thomas Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences, Building 70, Golisano Auditorium, Rm 1400. (See RIT Building 70 Google Map, or campus maps at http://inside.rit.edu/maps/.) The Lab for Technological Literacy at RIT is supporting the OLPC project by raising awareness locally and conducting research and development activities. Please join us at 7:00 pm - 8:50 pm, on the 4th Thursday of the month: - 22 January 2009 - 26 February 2009 - 26 March 2009 - 23 April 2009 - 28 May 2009 _______________________________________________ Olpc-open mailing list Olpc-open at lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-open -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/7c0d488e/attachment.htm From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Wed Jan 21 14:23:39 2009 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:23:39 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901211054i3a7f33fen8442809abe5d6823@mail.gmail.com> References: <49776E27.7070009@projetofedora.org> <7087c32a0901211054i3a7f33fen8442809abe5d6823@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4977763B.5000104@projetofedora.org> I'm working in drupal to create a WebQuest plataform for XO and I'm creating special contents where the teacher will can link a task to a Activity, so, to complete my work and facilitate the use by children I need this issue, to call activities using the XO browser. Wade Brainerd escreveu: >>From Terminal: > > sugar-launch ActivityName (or substring of activity name) > > Not sure about launching via Browse. Might be neat to add a Sugar > specific URL handler for launching activities, showing the journal, etc. > > -Wade > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > > wrote: > > Hello Guys! > > How can i call an activity from shell ? > > Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar browser > activity? How can i do that ? > > -- > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ > Fedora Community Manager - Latin America > http://www.proyectofedora.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 14:28:02 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:28:02 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: <4977763B.5000104@projetofedora.org> References: <49776E27.7070009@projetofedora.org> <7087c32a0901211054i3a7f33fen8442809abe5d6823@mail.gmail.com> <4977763B.5000104@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901211128j57a34b04nc0fe1413447b7cae@mail.gmail.com> Which activities are you referring to? You could download a file to the XO whose mime type is linked to an Activity. This would cause the Journal to launch the Activity to open the file. As far as I know, there is currently no way to package a Journal entry as a file, to be downloaded from a website into Sugar. Ultimately this seems like the correct solution to this use case. On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira < rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org> wrote: > I'm working in drupal to create a WebQuest plataform for XO and I'm > creating special contents where the teacher will can link a task to a > Activity, so, to complete my work and facilitate the use by children I > need this issue, to call activities using the XO browser. > > Wade Brainerd escreveu: > >>From Terminal: > > > > sugar-launch ActivityName (or substring of activity name) > > > > Not sure about launching via Browse. Might be neat to add a Sugar > > specific URL handler for launching activities, showing the journal, etc. > > > > -Wade > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > > > > wrote: > > > > Hello Guys! > > > > How can i call an activity from shell ? > > > > Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar > browser > > activity? How can i do that ? > > > > -- > > > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > > M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ > > Fedora Community Manager - Latin America > > http://www.proyectofedora.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org> > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > > -- > > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ > Fedora Community Manager - Latin America > http://www.proyectofedora.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/ed62418e/attachment.htm From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Wed Jan 21 14:43:19 2009 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:43:19 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: References: <49776E27.7070009__43727.190179243$1232563820$gmane$org@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <49777AD7.4000804@projetofedora.org> Who is responsible by the Sugar Browser development ? Chris Ball escreveu: > Hi, > > > How can i call an activity from shell ? > > e.g. "sugar-launch Pippy" > > > Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar > > browser activity? How can i do that ? > > Not from HTML. From activity code, you can insert the new activity's > bundle into the Journal and switch to its new Journal page, which is > what Browse does when you download a .xo. > > - Chris. -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From cjb at laptop.org Wed Jan 21 14:44:05 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:44:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: <49777AD7.4000804@projetofedora.org> (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira's message of "Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:43:19 -0200") References: <49776E27.7070009__43727.190179243$1232563820$gmane$org@projetofedora.org> <49777AD7.4000804@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: Hi Rodrigo, > Who is responsible by the Sugar Browser development ? All of us, including you. :) So far Simon Schampijer has done the majority of work on it, I think. - Chris. -- Chris Ball From gary at garycmartin.com Wed Jan 21 15:47:23 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:47:23 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] awesome demo of flex In-Reply-To: <1232563274.7079.1.camel@hitman> References: <1232563274.7079.1.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <68497C72-1FAE-4C0A-A257-9F2053BE7953@garycmartin.com> On 21 Jan 2009, at 18:41, Bryan Berry wrote: > http://flex.org/tour > > Is there anyway to get pygtk or js+html+css to compete w/ this? This > tour is really impressive. No. Not unless you secretly happen to run a company with annual revenues exceeding US$1 billion, and are in a tooth and nail development fight with M$ to own the tax on the heads of the next generation of developers. --Gary > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From walter.bender at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 15:54:26 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:54:26 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> Message-ID: Wow!! -walter On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Dear Sugar Community, > > Since, this date is Feature, API and String freeze everyone was busy > getting their features in. > > From a user point of view we want to highlight the following: > > === Naming alert on journal entry creation === > The journal's search and browsing capabilities are less useful if all > entries are named the same regardless of their actual content or > meaning to the user. That is why an alert has been added that encourage > the user to set the title and other properties, like available in the > journal detail view, of a newly created journal entry. This alert is > only shown on the creation of a new journal entry, not on resume. > > === Display recent activities in the home view === > In order to make easier to continue past work, the home view will > display recent entries in the activity palettes. > > You can decide if you want the activity icons to represent the last > journal entry with a new setting in the favourites view palette: > > === Journal === > Tomeu Vizoso has been doing a wonderful work of bringing the journal > implementation closer to it's design.The Object chooser can now be > filtered by data type. > > A favourite filter has been added to the journal toolbar to give a > better way of marking entries as 'important'. More regression fixes went > into the support of removable devices after moving from maintaining an > index file on the device to the use of POSIX calls. > > === New ColorToolButton Widget === > Benjamin Berg added a new ColorToolButton widget. It is already in use > in the Write activity to select a colour for the text. > > === Control Panel=== > The 'About my XO' section has been renamed to 'About my Computer' to > reflect the use of Sugar on non-XO hardware. Morgan Collett added the > possibility to change the jabber server without restarting Sugar. > > === Autoconnect to Access Point === > NetworkManager does autoconnect on Sugar startup to the last Access > Point you were connected successfully to. > > === Logout Option === > Sayamindu Dasgupta added a logout option to the xomenu. Eben Eliason > added the accessibility of the xomenu to the groups and mesh view and to > the friends tray in the frame. > > === New Logic for the devices positions === > The logic to position the frame devices has been reworked. Plug in your > devices and try it out. > [500 external devices eg. USB drive] > [400 3rd party devices eg. speech] > [300 transient connection devices eg. AP] > [200 transient devices eg. camera] > [100 static devices eg. battery] > > === Table of Content Support in Read === > The Read activity now shows the Table of Content for PDF files which > support this feature. This eases navigation of large PDF files considerably. > > === Acknowledgment === > A big thanks goes to all the translators, that are working so hard to > make Sugar a terrific localized environment and the infrastructure team > that provides our members with tools and services to make their live easier. > > > Thanks everyone for your great contributions! > > You can find more details and screenshots at > [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 > > The Sucrose Release Schedule can be found here > [2] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap#Schedule > > > In behalf of the sugar community, > Your Release Team > > _____________________________________________________ > > == Glucose news == > > === sugar-toolkit === > * separate debug settings from xsession {{Bug|163}} > * show an alert on activity close for suggesting the user to set > properties of the entry {{Bug|215}} > * add a colorpicker to Sugar, only the ColorToolButton is public for now > * move the palette to new style gobject properties > * {{OlpcBug|3060}} Add the possibility of filtering the object chooser > by data type > * fix uninstallling of activities that use symlinks {{Bug|171}} > * remove the hacks for asking the X server for screenshots and use > gtk.Widget.get_snapshot() instead > > === sugar === > * make the journal entries in the favorites palette resumable > * simplify the constants used to identify favorite layouts > * separate debug settings from xsession {{Bug|163}} > * add logout option {{Bug|207}} to xomenu (sayamindu, icon by eben) > * change jabber server without sugar restart {{Bug|142}} > * About my XO -> About my Computer > * {{Bug|196}} Fix setting the timezone in debian > * autoconnect to AP that we connected to last {{Bug|8}} > * add a favorites mode setting for deciding if the favorites view > resumes by default or not > * resume by default the last activity from the favorites view > * implement filtering by file type for removable devices > * {{Bug|132}} Filter by timestamp, not by mtime > * add support for text queries on removable devices > * dont abort if we cannot read a file from a removable device > * add a favorite filter to the journal toolbar > * sanitize the file name when we copy to removable devices > * {{Bug|36}} Refresh the detailed view when the entry changes > * {{Bug|38}} Refresh full metadata when editing so we dont lose properties > * Focus Search is not exposed via dbus anymore {{Bug|89}} > * {{Bug|131}} 'open with' does not work for clipboard item > * {{Bug|165}} Install bundles when they get into the journal > * add Resume item to the file transfer palette > * {{Bug|126}} Fix erase button in the journal > * following eben's spec for the device positions > > === sugar-base === > * Don't print logs to tty instead of shell.log in the emulator > * Trivial port to GIO instead of GnomeVFS > > === sugar-presence-service === > * {{Bug|142}} Restart a server-based collaboration session / switch > servers on the fly > > === sugar-datastore === > * {{Bug|181}} Replace deprecated os.popen by subprocess > * {{Bug|140}} Crash when joining a shared Read > > === sugar-artwork === > * add activity-journal icon to artwork > * add system-logout icon (part of {{Bug|207}}) > * add everything needed for the colorpicker. That is a small icon and a > bit in the gtkrc. > * fix triangular arrows by looking at the parent_bg_color option > * add icons for object transfers > > === etoys === > * offer full authoring-tools menu to all users > * make Anthy based Japanese input work > * add About flap on start screen > * enable screen scaling a bit more eagerly > * include icons for mimetypes > > > == Fructose news == > > === calculate === > * Support 'real' scientific notation {{OlpcBug|4250}} > * Add switching between exponential/scientific notation > * Allow changing of number of displayed digits > * Change cursor on equations to Hand {{OlpcBug|6612}} > * Fix fall-through of unhandled CTRL keys (eg CTRL+Q) > * Add recursion detection > * Fixed error-handling bug > > === read === > * {{OlpcBug|7343}} Enable a horizontal scroll bar > * {{OlpcBug|2837}} Implement TOC navigation in Read (sayamindu) > * {{Bug|145}} Prevent object chooser appearing when joining a shared session > > === browse === > * use cjson instead of json (nirbheek) > * new translations > > === chat === > * use cjson instead of simple-json (nirbheek) > * Updated translations: he, en_US, sv > > === write === > * Make use of the ColorToolButton that benzea landed in sugar-toolkit > * {{OlpcBug|3060}} Filter object chooser so it shows only images > * {{OlpcBug|8972}} Save to OpenDocument if we cannot export in the > original format > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From luke at faraone.cc Wed Jan 21 16:02:17 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:02:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] awesome demo of flex In-Reply-To: <68497C72-1FAE-4C0A-A257-9F2053BE7953@garycmartin.com> References: <1232563274.7079.1.camel@hitman> <68497C72-1FAE-4C0A-A257-9F2053BE7953@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901211302l59fa1de8habd267c35516f667@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 21 Jan 2009, at 18:41, Bryan Berry wrote: > > > http://flex.org/tour > > > > Is there anyway to get pygtk or js+html+css to compete w/ this? This > > tour is really impressive. > > No. Not unless you secretly happen to run a company with annual > revenues exceeding US$1 billion, and are in a tooth and nail > development fight with M$ to own the tax on the heads of the next > generation of developers. > *Adobe -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/1e7e6dc8/attachment.htm From sayamindu at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 16:07:02 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:37:02 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Announce] String freeze in effect Message-ID: Hello, As some of you may have already noticed, string freeze for the upcoming release of Sugar 0.84 is now in effect. String freeze means that any changes/additions made to the strings of the modules Glucose or Fructose needs approval from the localization mailing list. This however _does not_ mean that translators cannot submit their translations. On the contrary, this marks the beginning of the period when translators can be most active in the Glucose and Fructose projects, since the potential number of changes in the strings from now on is going to be minimal. Feel free to ask if there are any doubts/questions. Thank you, and happy translating :-) Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 17:44:20 2009 From: christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com (Christoph Derndorfer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:44:20 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] 1-click way to add extra fonts? In-Reply-To: <20090121173908.GQ24357@jones.dk> References: <20090121173908.GQ24357@jones.dk> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 05:24:00PM +0000, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: > >is there any simple 1-click way to add extra .ttf fonts to Sugar? > > > >While the manual way (creating /usr/share/fonts/truetype, copying the .ttf > >files) is easy enough for most people I'm looking at a scenario where a > >teacher is trying to add fonts to 25 XOs. So it's quite obvious that the > >manual way is a bit impractical... > > Instead of /usr/share/fonts/truetype (which requires root access, I > believe) you should be able to store fonts below ~/.fonts (i.e. > /home/sugar/.fonts if username is "sugar"). > > And you really do not need to store in subdirectories. According to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Fonts#By_copying_.ttf_files storing them in ~/.fonts does not work due to #6629 ( http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/6629) which is still open... > Still not 1-click... Nope:-( Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer co-editor, olpcnews url: www.olpcnews.com e-mail: christoph at olpcnews.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090121/4ad88a7f/attachment.htm From mikus at bga.com Wed Jan 21 19:17:08 2009 From: mikus at bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:17:08 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] recognizing a "friend" Message-ID: <4977BB04.809@bga.com> While I was trying a mesh network with Joyride, I hovered in Neighborhood View over the icon for XO 'Varde' and clicked 'Make friend' in that icon's palette. ['Varde' showed up as an icon in my Friends View.] Later, I rebooted and used a wired connection instead. I was surprised that when hovering in Neighborhood View over the icon for 'Varde', that palette still has a 'Remove Friend' entry -- but now my Friends View showed *no* other icons (besides "self"). [The only thing that had changed: previously, 'Varde' was accessed with its mesh IP address; now it was accessed with its LAN IP address.] Does Friends View depend on matching the target's IP address in order to show a "friend" ? mikus From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 21 19:23:33 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:23:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > It looks like you're making F10 spins, then? I wonder what happens if > you try a Rawhide spin instead. Could you share your instructions and > code? I'd like to give this technique a try for our F11 rebase. * Clone git://git.fedoraproject.org/spin-kickstarts * If you want F10 apply spin.patch * Apply live.patch in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/imgcreate * sudo livecd-creator --cache=cache -c fedora-livecd-desktop.ks * Grab livecd-iso-to-xo.sh attached to this mail (not really polished, might leave stale files, mounts etc) * sudo sh livecd-iso-to-xo.sh [isoname].iso [imagename].img Same results as yesterday with F10 while F11 fails to /init (both images built from an F10). Marco -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spin.patch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1306 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090122/b995d7f3/attachment-0002.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: live.patch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 403 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090122/b995d7f3/attachment-0003.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: livecd-iso-to-xo.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090122/b995d7f3/attachment-0001.sh From bryan at olenepal.org Wed Jan 21 20:28:24 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:28:24 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] awesome demo of flex In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901211302l59fa1de8habd267c35516f667@mail.gmail.com> References: <1232563274.7079.1.camel@hitman> <68497C72-1FAE-4C0A-A257-9F2053BE7953@garycmartin.com> <2eaf0c620901211302l59fa1de8habd267c35516f667@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1232587704.16512.14.camel@hitman> looks like someone is working on it -- Palm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_webOS On Wed, 2009-01-21 at 16:02 -0500, Luke Faraone wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Gary C Martin > wrote: > On 21 Jan 2009, at 18:41, Bryan Berry wrote: > > > http://flex.org/tour > > > > Is there anyway to get pygtk or js+html+css to compete w/ > this? This > > tour is really impressive. > > > No. Not unless you secretly happen to run a company with > annual > revenues exceeding US$1 billion, and are in a tooth and nail > development fight with M$ to own the tax on the heads of the > next > generation of developers. > > *Adobe > > > -- > Luke Faraone > http://luke.faraone.cc -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Wed Jan 21 20:36:35 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:36:35 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Mojo - an application framework for desktop apps using html5, js, and css Message-ID: <1232588195.16512.17.camel@hitman> http://developer.palm.com/ the mojo framework could be used to create neat little activities in very little time w/ a very low barrier to entry it part of palm's linux based WebOS. very neat little project -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From bryan at olenepal.org Wed Jan 21 22:15:28 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:15:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Mojo - an application framework for desktop apps using html5, js, and css Message-ID: <1232594128.16512.20.camel@hitman> http://developer.palm.com/ the mojo framework could be used to create neat little activities in very little time w/ a very low barrier to entry it part of palm's linux based WebOS. very neat little project -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From cjb at laptop.org Wed Jan 21 22:23:26 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:23:26 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: (Marco Pesenti Gritti's message of "Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:23:33 +0100") References: Message-ID: Hi Marco, > Same results as yesterday with F10 while F11 fails to /init (both > images built from an F10). I gave this a try, and I get a hang after "Loading ramdisk image.." in OFW when booting a Rawhide image built on a Rawhide/x86-64 host. Will try with a serial port connected tomorrow. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From dr at jones.dk Thu Jan 22 01:44:42 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:44:42 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pyjamas - a *free* *Python* framework for desktop apps using dhtml Message-ID: <20090122064442.GC4596@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 http://pyjs.org/ You write in Python and "compile" into an AJAX-enriched website. Same code can also run as desktop apps: http://pyjd.org/ - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl4FdoACgkQn7DbMsAkQLh7rgCgnDdLEh9T1QdqiEE6XUg5NWSQ uzwAoJcjgwSv2fx9Ku2TiJQmD6o0Dcnw =EVLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From meta.sj at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 02:13:23 2009 From: meta.sj at gmail.com (Samuel Klein) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:13:23 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pyjamas - a *free* *Python* framework for desktop apps using dhtml In-Reply-To: <20090122064442.GC4596@jones.dk> References: <20090122064442.GC4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901212313y6daf918cndb77c643ddb44a04@mail.gmail.com> yeah, pyjamas + sugar needs some serious promotion. SJ On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > http://pyjs.org/ > > You write in Python and "compile" into an AJAX-enriched website. > > Same code can also run as desktop apps: http://pyjd.org/ > > > - Jonas > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkl4FdoACgkQn7DbMsAkQLh7rgCgnDdLEh9T1QdqiEE6XUg5NWSQ > uzwAoJcjgwSv2fx9Ku2TiJQmD6o0Dcnw > =EVLk > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From meta.sj at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 02:15:04 2009 From: meta.sj at gmail.com (Samuel Klein) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:15:04 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pyjamas - a *free* *Python* framework for desktop apps using dhtml In-Reply-To: <20090122064442.GC4596@jones.dk> References: <20090122064442.GC4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901212315n1c74a479ucd4b4aa48f65655@mail.gmail.com> yeah, pyjamas + sugar needs some serious promotion. SJ On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > http://pyjs.org/ > > You write in Python and "compile" into an AJAX-enriched website. > > Same code can also run as desktop apps: http://pyjd.org/ > > > - Jonas > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkl4FdoACgkQn7DbMsAkQLh7rgCgnDdLEh9T1QdqiEE6XUg5NWSQ > uzwAoJcjgwSv2fx9Ku2TiJQmD6o0Dcnw > =EVLk > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From bernie at codewiz.org Thu Jan 22 03:15:51 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:15:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> Walter Bender wrote: > Wow!! We have great release notes lately. To credit authors, I'd also append the patch summary by author, Linus-style. It can quickly be obtained this way: git log v0.83.3..HEAD | git-shortlog -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From simon at schampijer.de Thu Jan 22 03:54:36 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:54:36 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> Bernie Innocenti wrote: > Walter Bender wrote: >> Wow!! > > We have great release notes lately. > > To credit authors, I'd also append the patch summary by author, > Linus-style. It can quickly be obtained this way: > > git log v0.83.3..HEAD | git-shortlog Excellent, will do that for the next release. So the command for sugar for this release would be (no-merges to get rid of the messages when you merge the master tree "Merge branch 'master' of gitorious at git.sugarlabs.org:sugar/mainline"): git log v0.83.4..v0.83.5 --no-merges | git-shortlog That will encourage people to write nice commit messages :) I would suggest to put up some guidelines (no rules), so a reader can more easily parse them. For example: - ticket number always at the beginning of the commit message - Start message with a capital letter - For typo fixes use: _Typo - For pylint fixes use: _Pylint More thoughts? Simon From joel.stan at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 05:39:34 2009 From: joel.stan at gmail.com (Joel Stanley) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:39:34 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> Message-ID: Hello Simon, On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 05:28, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Thanks everyone for your great contributions! > > You can find more details and screenshots at > [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 Very nice looking release notes! We're having a BOF tomorrow at LCA, and I was thinking I'd show off the latest and greatest shiny bits to everyone - the notes will be great for this. Is the release packaged? Is there a live image I could grab from somewhere to show off? Cheers, Joel From simon at schampijer.de Thu Jan 22 06:39:41 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:39:41 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-Developers meeting REMINDER (22 January, 2009 - 14.00 (UTC)) --- irc.freenode.net, #sugar-meeting Message-ID: <49785AFD.6060108@schampijer.de> ===Topics=== a) February the 13th is the due date for our Sucrose 0.83 Release Candidate 1 (DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap#Schedule). What needs to happen in the next weeks to get there? b) Update DevelopmentTeam/TODO list c) Auto-authentication for Browse when visiting web-based tools on the XS it has registered to (guest speaker Martin Langhoff) d) What about the activity updater? See you there, Simon From alsroot at member.fsf.org Thu Jan 22 07:05:16 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:05:16 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090122120516.GA16188@antilopa-gnu> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 09:39:34PM +1100, Joel Stanley wrote: > Hello Simon, > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 05:28, Simon Schampijer wrote: > > > Thanks everyone for your great contributions! > > > > You can find more details and screenshots at > > [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 > > Very nice looking release notes! We're having a BOF tomorrow at LCA, > and I was thinking I'd show off the latest and greatest shiny bits to > everyone - the notes will be great for this. > > Is the release packaged? at least for some distros: - Mandriva's cooker: -21h - ALTLinux's sisyphus: +3h :) -- Aleksey From gary at garycmartin.com Thu Jan 22 08:58:52 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:58:52 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: <87EB7A48-0822-4C66-BB93-7A2334D5CB4E@garycmartin.com> References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <497669E1.7090002@schampijer.de> <87EB7A48-0822-4C66-BB93-7A2334D5CB4E@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: On 21 Jan 2009, at 01:01, Gary C Martin wrote: > On 21 Jan 2009, at 00:18, Simon Schampijer wrote: > >> Gary C Martin wrote: >>> On 17 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If >>>>>> you resume by >>>>>> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose >>>>>> the undo >>>>>> functionality. >>>>> That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning >>>>> proposal, >>>>> what happened to that one? >>>> Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now >>>> resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the >>>> user >>>> clicked on its icon in the journal. >>>> >>>> It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions >>>> and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't >>>> gotten to >>>> implement it in something that can be released. >>>> >>>> So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume >>>> operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second >>>> place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which >>>> activities >>>> get stored in the journal. >>>> >>>> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on >>>> requesting >>>> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >>>> try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to >>>> delay >>>> for a few days the release in case we find that something can be >>>> done >>>> and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. >>> FWIW: I'd love to give it a whirl and provide some feedback, >>> unfortunately I only have access to Sugar on XO hardware ? so I'm >>> out of such early test/debug/feedback loop until things land in >>> Joyride (or some future equivalent). >>> --G >> >> The 0.83.4 did land in joyride build 2631. Release Notes are here >> and will be officially announced tomorrow. http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 > > Simon, thanks for the heads up! I'd just plumped to try 2631 having > seen the build changes, but good to know it's the one to start pushing > on. The download has been taking a long time so far, will start giving > it whirl tomorrow. > >> Not sure all the activities have been made available in olpc places. > > I'll dig through the recent [RELEASE] emails for any activities I > start to re-test, and make sure I get the intended .xo bundles for > each. Will post the list of .xo URLs here, Here's the latest list of activities I came up that are different from the G1G1 available versions: Write-61 (G1G1 is at 60) ? No .xo bundle provided used git to get: sudo yum install git git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/write/mainline.git write cd write ./setup.py build ./setup.py fix_manifest ./setup.py dist_xo sugar-install-bundle dist/Write-61.xo Browse-103 (G1G1 is at 101) ? No .xo bundle provided used git to get: git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/browse/mainline.git browse cd browse ./setup.py build ./setup.py fix_manifest ./setup.py dist_xo sugar-install-bundle dist/Browse-103.xo Calculate-28 (G1G1 is at 25) http://people.sugarlabs.org/~rwh/Calculate/Calculate-28.xo Chat-62 (G1G1 is at 48) http://dev.laptop.org/~morgan/bundles/Chat-62.xo Read-63 (G1G1 is at 52) http://dev.laptop.org/~morgan/bundles/Read-63.xo Etoys-99 (G1G1 is at 94) http://etoys.laptop.org/rpms/Etoys-99.xo TurtleArt-24 (G1G1 was 10) http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/b/b1/TurtleArt-24.xo Image Viewer http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/bundles/imageviewer/ImageViewer-5.xo Terminal-21 (G1G1 is at 18) http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/bundles/terminal/Terminal-21.xo Jukebox-5 http://dev.laptop.org/~kushal/Jukebox-5.xo > I guess ideally this needs > to be checked against the list that Activities/Joyride is handing out. > Might be some dance needed to make sure we don't break 'latest' non- > Joyride links ? hmmmm, have a vague funny feeling there's still some > outstanding issue stopping activity authors updating the links? Will > go and remind myself once I have the list of needed Joyride > activities. Just for others to be aware, in joyride 2631 software update from the control panel does not actually install activities (goes through the motions but nothing gets installed), so make sure you already have most of what you need, or wget and sugar-install-bundle them after (don't rely on browse unless you have the new joyride version as it doesn't launch under joyride 2631): http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/229 --Gary > Thanks, > --Gary > >> I will post more details later, Marco is working as well on SoaS at >> the moment as a way to test things. >> >> Cheers, >> Simon > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From dr at jones.dk Thu Jan 22 10:03:16 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:03:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 09:54:36AM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >So the command for sugar for this release would be [...]: > >git log v0.83.4..v0.83.5 --no-merges | git-shortlog > >That will encourage people to write nice commit messages :) I would >suggest to put up some guidelines (no rules), so a reader can more >easily parse them. For example: > >- ticket number always at the beginning of the commit message >- Start message with a capital letter >- For typo fixes use: _Typo >- For pylint fixes use: _Pylint Use the recommended style as mentioned in Git documentation somewhere: First line a summary of at most 40 chars, then empty line, then optional detailed commit message (which is stripped by git-shortlog). Also, I'd suggest mentioning ticket numbers at end instead, in the style used by Debian. Example: Fix foobar -> barbaz. Closes: SL#1234, OLPC#1235. The logic is to always prepend "Closes: " and then either "SL#" or "#" for each comma-separated ticket closed, or prepend "OLPC#" for tickets closed at the laptop.org bugtracker. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl4irQACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgCDQCbBObD5vCNDLrGX3HNLNK1RvFg vokAniZd0hz/KXxZ2JhUf1Fr8s6me++e =4VCG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mikus at bga.com Thu Jan 22 10:10:46 2009 From: mikus at bga.com (Mikus Grinbergs) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:10:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default Message-ID: <49788C76.7040900@bga.com> > Write-61 (G1G1 is at 60) - No .xo bundle provided used git to get > Browse-103 (G1G1 is at 101) - No .xo bundle provided used git to get Please remember those "out there" who are not using 'git'. .xo bundles should be available for persons using only 'wget'. Thanks, mikus From simon at schampijer.de Thu Jan 22 11:30:58 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:30:58 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] feature freeze issue #3: resume by default In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901170425o5bf67c66ybffe588bd5518b33@mail.gmail.com> <4971E112.2060503@schampijer.de> <20090117145414.GE5177@twin.sascha.silbe.org> <242851610901170730h724220cfj50391b9bc9940c4c@mail.gmail.com> <497669E1.7090002@schampijer.de> <87EB7A48-0822-4C66-BB93-7A2334D5CB4E@garycmartin.com> Message-ID: <49789F42.8080002@schampijer.de> Gary C Martin wrote: > On 21 Jan 2009, at 01:01, Gary C Martin wrote: > >> On 21 Jan 2009, at 00:18, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> >>> Gary C Martin wrote: >>>> On 17 Jan 2009, at 15:30, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 15:54, Sascha Silbe >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 02:45:54PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Issues: We do not have a don't save those changes option. If >>>>>>> you resume by >>>>>>> default you could overwrite something you needed. So we loose >>>>>>> the undo >>>>>>> functionality. >>>>>> That sounds _REALLY_ bad. I remember looking at some versioning >>>>>> proposal, >>>>>> what happened to that one? >>>>> Well, clicking on the activity icon in the favorites view will now >>>>> resume the last activity entry in exactly the same way as if the >>>>> user >>>>> clicked on its icon in the journal. >>>>> >>>>> It's true that we would like to store all the intermediate versions >>>>> and allow the user to work with each of them, but we haven't >>>>> gotten to >>>>> implement it in something that can be released. >>>>> >>>>> So the change here is that we have given more prominence to resume >>>>> operations and have moved starting up new activities to a second >>>>> place. But we haven't really changed the mechanics by which >>>>> activities >>>>> get stored in the journal. >>>>> >>>>> After talking for some time with Simon, we have agreed on requesting >>>>> input from people willing to install the last code and giving it a >>>>> try. We would love to hear about suggestions and are willing to >>>>> delay >>>>> for a few days the release in case we find that something can be >>>>> done >>>>> and that we won't be regressing in any way regarding past releases. >>>> FWIW: I'd love to give it a whirl and provide some feedback, >>>> unfortunately I only have access to Sugar on XO hardware ? so I'm >>>> out of such early test/debug/feedback loop until things land in >>>> Joyride (or some future equivalent). >>>> --G >>> >>> The 0.83.4 did land in joyride build 2631. Release Notes are here >>> and will be officially announced tomorrow. >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release/Releases/Sucrose/0.83.4 >> >> Simon, thanks for the heads up! I'd just plumped to try 2631 having >> seen the build changes, but good to know it's the one to start pushing >> on. The download has been taking a long time so far, will start giving >> it whirl tomorrow. >> >>> Not sure all the activities have been made available in olpc places. >> >> I'll dig through the recent [RELEASE] emails for any activities I >> start to re-test, and make sure I get the intended .xo bundles for >> each. Will post the list of .xo URLs here, > > Here's the latest list of activities I came up that are different from > the G1G1 available versions: > > Write-61 (G1G1 is at 60) ? No .xo bundle provided used git to get: http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~erikos/bundles/Write-61.xo > Browse-103 (G1G1 is at 101) ? No .xo bundle provided used git to get: http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~erikos/bundles/Browse-103.xo Cheers, Simon From cjb at laptop.org Thu Jan 22 18:01:25 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:01:25 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: (Marco Pesenti Gritti's message of "Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:23:33 +0100") References: Message-ID: Hi Marco, Some extra steps: > * Clone git://git.fedoraproject.org/spin-kickstarts > * If you want F10 apply spin.patch > * Apply live.patch in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/imgcreate * sudo yum -y install livecd-tools mtd-utils crcimg * If you're building on F10, s/ext4/ext3/ in fedora-live-base.ks > * sudo livecd-creator --cache=cache -c fedora-livecd-desktop.ks I'm still not able to get the images I create to boot on the XO -- could you confirm that you're using the Fedora kernel and initrd? I wonder what else could be different between our setups.. Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball From jameson.quinn at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 18:36:16 2009 From: jameson.quinn at gmail.com (Jameson Quinn) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:36:16 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugarlabs and GSOC In-Reply-To: <4869cee70901141717p8b90721pd8931c2831893b6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70901141717p8b90721pd8931c2831893b6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > Assuming you are accepted as a mentoring organization, your number of > student slots would be based on overall popularity as with all other > organizations. There's full documentation available here that may be helpful > to you: > > > http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-student-allocations > Just to let you know, this link is broken right now. And the same link on http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web is, of course, also broken. Thanks, Jameson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090122/15f80ad8/attachment.htm From bernie at codewiz.org Fri Jan 23 04:45:15 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:45:15 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Use the recommended style as mentioned in Git documentation somewhere: > First line a summary of at most 40 chars, then empty line, then optional > detailed commit message (which is stripped by git-shortlog). > > Also, I'd suggest mentioning ticket numbers at end instead, in the style > used by Debian. Example: > > Fix foobar -> barbaz. Closes: SL#1234, OLPC#1235. > > The logic is to always prepend "Closes: " and then either "SL#" > or "#" for each comma-separated ticket closed, or prepend "OLPC#" > for tickets closed at the laptop.org bugtracker. Some thoughts: - Because the commit message summary appears in the shortlog, it should be kept below 74 characters to avoid ugly wrapping. - Given the above, the word "Closes: " steals precious characters, and is rather easy to deduce, therefore I'd opt it out. - The leading dot at the end should not be included because it looks super ugly in the subject of an email. - To reduce clutter, I'd make the "SL" prefix implied, and leave other prefixes such as OLPC#123 and RH#456 explicit. Do we have a wiki page where we can document these practices? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 04:57:35 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:57:35 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > Some thoughts: > > - Because the commit message summary appears in the shortlog, > it should be kept below 74 characters to avoid ugly wrapping. > > - Given the above, the word "Closes: " steals precious characters, > and is rather easy to deduce, therefore I'd opt it out. > > - The leading dot at the end should not be included because > it looks super ugly in the subject of an email. > > - To reduce clutter, I'd make the "SL" prefix implied, and leave > other prefixes such as OLPC#123 and RH#456 explicit. > > Do we have a wiki page where we can document these practices? Perhaps http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 05:12:46 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:12:46 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Chris Ball wrote: > I'm still not able to get the images I create to boot on the XO -- could > you confirm that you're using the Fedora kernel and initrd? Yup, sure. The only difference is that the initrd contains more modules, because of the livecd-tools change I posted as a patch. Here is my image: http://www.sugarlabs.org/~marco/f10.img http://www.sugarlabs.org/~marco/f10.crc Could you give it a try? That would tell us if it's something different in the build environment or something else... Marco From simon at schampijer.de Fri Jan 23 07:22:30 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:22:30 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <4979B686.1000404@schampijer.de> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >> Some thoughts: >> >> - Because the commit message summary appears in the shortlog, >> it should be kept below 74 characters to avoid ugly wrapping. >> >> - Given the above, the word "Closes: " steals precious characters, >> and is rather easy to deduce, therefore I'd opt it out. >> >> - The leading dot at the end should not be included because >> it looks super ugly in the subject of an email. >> >> - To reduce clutter, I'd make the "SL" prefix implied, and leave >> other prefixes such as OLPC#123 and RH#456 explicit. >> >> Do we have a wiki page where we can document these practices? > > Perhaps http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git > > Marco Thanks for all your comments. I have put up http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git#Git_commit_message_guidelines reflecting the discussion. Nothing set in stone yet, feel free to comment or change in the next days - otherwise it will become mandatory ;) Cheers, Simon From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 07:25:35 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:25:35 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <4979B686.1000404@schampijer.de> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> <4979B686.1000404@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <242851610901230425y3873e8ceycc93988fb145bcc1@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 13:22, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >>> Some thoughts: >>> >>> - Because the commit message summary appears in the shortlog, >>> it should be kept below 74 characters to avoid ugly wrapping. >>> >>> - Given the above, the word "Closes: " steals precious characters, >>> and is rather easy to deduce, therefore I'd opt it out. >>> >>> - The leading dot at the end should not be included because >>> it looks super ugly in the subject of an email. >>> >>> - To reduce clutter, I'd make the "SL" prefix implied, and leave >>> other prefixes such as OLPC#123 and RH#456 explicit. >>> >>> Do we have a wiki page where we can document these practices? >> >> Perhaps http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git >> >> Marco > > Thanks for all your comments. I have put up > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git#Git_commit_message_guidelines > > reflecting the discussion. Nothing set in stone yet, feel free to > comment or change in the next days - otherwise it will become mandatory ;) Sounds excellent to me. Regards, Tomeu From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 07:53:24 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:53:24 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Turtle Art Portfolio v-7 Message-ID: I pushed a new version of the Portfolio tool (See http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/e/e6/TurtleArtPortfolio-7.xo). It has a number of improvements over the previous versions, including: * fixing a bug that prevented the Spanish version from launching * export of the presentation as HTML with embedded images * more extensive use of the toolbar, including a play button I also reworked the arithmetic operators based upon feedback from some of the teachers on the Sur list. (Please see http://sugarlabs.org/go/TAPortfolio#Some_new_approaches_to_arithmetic_operators). If there is positive feedback in regard to these changes, I will push them to Turtle Art as well. Any and all feedback is most welcome. Also, please add comments/corrections to the Activity wiki page: http://sugarlabs.org/go/TAPortfolio Finally, I am looking for someone in the community who would like to design some new slide layouts (or style sheets for the HTML export). regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 09:56:28 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:56:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > === Journal === > Tomeu Vizoso has been doing a wonderful work of bringing the journal > implementation closer to it's design.The Object chooser can now be > filtered by data type. Cool, between this and the note mentioning "the old datastore will be updated to the new format" I wonder if the datastore storage - on disk - has changed significantly. I am thinking of ds-backup interoperation. Right now ds-backup uses the json-formatted metadata files, as well as the proper stored files. Any changes in those need a matching change on ds-backup code, probably just on the server-side code. cheers, m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 10:04:10 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:04:10 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 15:56, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> === Journal === >> Tomeu Vizoso has been doing a wonderful work of bringing the journal >> implementation closer to it's design.The Object chooser can now be >> filtered by data type. > > Cool, between this and the note mentioning "the old datastore will be > updated to the new format" I wonder if the datastore storage - on disk > - has changed significantly. > > I am thinking of ds-backup interoperation. Right now ds-backup uses > the json-formatted metadata files, as well as the proper stored files. > Any changes in those need a matching change on ds-backup code, > probably just on the server-side code. Yeah, I recommend rsync'ing the ~/.sugar/default/datastore dir, maybe skipping the index subdir. You have the layout explained here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite Regards, Tomeu From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 10:17:55 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:17:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Yeah, I recommend rsync'ing the ~/.sugar/default/datastore dir, maybe > skipping the index subdir. You have the layout explained here: > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite Uhmmm. Ok, then I'll have to rework the server side too. Keep me in the loop with these things ;-) http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9209 the backup infra will need a bit of work to handle this gracefully for example when clients get upgraded. The data files have moved, which means that unless we do something smart, rsync will try and resend everything. cheers, m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 10:22:03 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:22:03 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901230722y2b732c4ar2cae11720e703ddd@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 16:17, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Yeah, I recommend rsync'ing the ~/.sugar/default/datastore dir, maybe >> skipping the index subdir. You have the layout explained here: >> >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite > > Uhmmm. Ok, then I'll have to rework the server side too. Keep me in > the loop with these things ;-) I actually would have appreciated more feedback when I asked for it some months ago. Anyway, I trust this layout change will simplify things for you at the end. Regards, Tomeu > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9209 > > the backup infra will need a bit of work to handle this gracefully for > example when clients get upgraded. The data files have moved, which > means that unless we do something smart, rsync will try and resend > everything. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langhoff at gmail.com > martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 10:42:12 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:42:12 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <242851610901230722y2b732c4ar2cae11720e703ddd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230722y2b732c4ar2cae11720e703ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46a038f90901230742y9a26363oda7e49f18adb6bc0@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > I actually would have appreciated more feedback when I asked for it > some months ago. Anyway, I trust this layout change will simplify > things for you at the end. Sorry, I probably hid at the sight of "Journal rewrite proposal". There were several in the air. The changes you have made are good, I just didn't know that one of the journal reimplementations had actually gone ahead :-) Is it possible for you to add a single file that says the "journal storage" version at the root of it? Something like $ cat .sugar/default/datastore/store/format 2 That would make things a ton easier for ds-backup. ds-backup client can read that file and tell the server that it's a "format 2" backup, so the server can re-org the files before the client rsyncs across... Without something like that, an upgrade to a new format in a large school would swamp RF for days... m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 12:17:56 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:17:56 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yay, stock F10 is now running GNOME fine. Some more things I found: * I was not using -a when copying the files, so owners and all kind of other stuff was not preserved. That's the cause of the hal failure, new script attached. * With selinux enabled you cannot login from the console. Perhaps jffs2/selinux issues? I'm just disabling it for now. -selinux --enforcing +selinux --disabled * rpm does not work. It complains about mmap failure when reading the db, jffs2 related? * X doesn't actually crash the system, it's just very broken :) If you switch to vt and back you can also see some parts of the gdm screen. It looks definitely like a regression in the updates. If I build an image with updates disabled X works fine. Marco -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: livecd-iso-to-xo.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090123/1dd8b8d6/attachment.sh From sayamindu at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 12:24:11 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:54:11 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > Yay, stock F10 is now running GNOME fine. Some more things I found: > > * I was not using -a when copying the files, so owners and all kind of > other stuff was not preserved. That's the cause of the hal failure, > new script attached. > > * With selinux enabled you cannot login from the console. Perhaps > jffs2/selinux issues? I'm just disabling it for now. > > -selinux --enforcing > +selinux --disabled > > * rpm does not work. It complains about mmap failure when reading the > db, jffs2 related? > FWIW, I have noticed mmap errors while trying to deal with large files (~70MB) on the standard OLPC builds. localedef does not work in the XO for this (strace shows that it chokes when trying to mmap /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive) -sdg- -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From cscott at laptop.org Fri Jan 23 12:42:18 2009 From: cscott at laptop.org (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:42:18 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > * rpm does not work. It complains about mmap failure when reading the > db, jffs2 related? As far as I know, jffs2 doesn't support writable mmaps. In the debian ports, we add some special magic to tell apt not to use them ( http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_Debian_as_an_upgrade ); and the following code from pilgrim appears to do something similar: echo " - Configuring RPM to not use writable mmap (as jffs2 don't support it)" mkdir -p $INSTALL_ROOT/etc/rpm cat < $INSTALL_ROOT/etc/rpm/macros.rpmdb %__dbi_cdb create private nommap EOF It's probably worth reading through the pilgrim 'streams.d/olpc-development.stream' file to see if there are other fixes you are missing. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) From dr at jones.dk Fri Jan 23 13:27:55 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:27:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <20090123182755.GO4596@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:45:15AM +0100, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Use the recommended style as mentioned in Git documentation >> somewhere: First line a summary of at most 40 chars, then empty line, >> then optional detailed commit message (which is stripped by >> git-shortlog). >> >> Also, I'd suggest mentioning ticket numbers at end instead, in the >> style used by Debian. Example: >> >> Fix foobar -> barbaz. Closes: SL#1234, OLPC#1235. >> >> The logic is to always prepend "Closes: " and then either "SL#" or >> "#" for each comma-separated ticket closed, or prepend "OLPC#" for >> tickets closed at the laptop.org bugtracker. > > >Some thoughts: > > - Because the commit message summary appears in the shortlog, > it should be kept below 74 characters to avoid ugly wrapping. Git prepends commit hashes, which is the reason for keeping it even shorter. I do not remember where I read it but am pretty sure their recommendation is to keep first line at most 40 chars. > - Given the above, the word "Closes: " steals precious characters, > and is rather easy to deduce, therefore I'd opt it out. It really makes better sense to me to not squeeze bug hints into that first line at all, but instead include them in a later line of the commit. Dropping the leading "Closes: " makes it harder to rely on for automated bug closing. You might not care about that, but I must say that I find that mechanism pretty cool on Debian. > - To reduce clutter, I'd make the "SL" prefix implied, and leave > other prefixes such as OLPC#123 and RH#456 explicit. You mean that you agree with my proposal of having "SL" _optional_ or you mean that it must never be there? Imagine a future fork of Sugarlabs. Let's call it "Suguntu" to hint at where I am going with this. Suguntu has their own bug tracking system, and some Sugarlabs developers gets hired to work on both systems in parallel. In the beginning Suguntu acts as downstram to Sugarlabs, but over time some parts of Sugar then gets primarily maintained at Suguntu so some changelog entries close Suguntu bugreports and not Sugarlabs ones. I'd say it makes sense to allow "SL" as a hint, but just have it be optional so that for packages only maintained upstream at Sugarlabs there is no need to add it to eah and eery bug hint. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl6DCsACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgoMQCfdkb5ic6AZh0qcgWwKW6uJscy rtgAmQFGsA8+aqVq/NARmOj1LrMd0dN0 =51oi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 13:40:15 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:40:15 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Auto-authentication for Browse - Message-ID: <46a038f90901231040h6650839cm289552dde817370c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > ===Topics=== > c) Auto-authentication for Browse when visiting web-based tools on the > XS it has registered to (guest speaker Martin Langhoff) First, *apologies* for the no-show -- I got confused between 14hs UTC and 14hs EST. In terms of what to do with Browse.xo, I have a couple of rough ideas to propose. It's a very tentative thing -- and I don't want or expect to dictate the implementation. There's been a few discussions verbally (at 1CC, and at SugarCamp), plus quite a bit on the devel@ list. Might be worthwhile a re-read. Here's my outline of opportunities and constraints as I understand them * We want seamless, magic auto-authentication for the XO when visiting web-based tools on the XS it has registered to. * We hope this to be low-impact on Browse.xo and 9.1 in general. It'd be a big win if the feature works on 8.2 as well. It cannot hamper using normal websites. * It is better to avoid making it too OLPC-specific. XOs should be able to interop with a XS or something roughly like it. (Later down the path, perhaps more than one XSish server...) * We'd like conventional browsers to able to use the same mechanism (but I can add suitable fallbacks on the XS to support non-XO users...) * We hope this is low impact on the XS too. It cannot hamper other clients. * The XO shares at 'registration' time its local and unique public ssh key with the XS. We can use that bit of knowledge clearly and without more infra changes. * We can change the registration protocol to exchange more data, but that will widen the impact of this change significantly. * The general idea is to hook a special "in the background" handshake when Browse.xo visits a server that looks like an XS. (But for example, I don't know what hooks we have in there!). After that handshake, which we'd like to be reasonably secure against eavesdroppers and replay attacks, traffic falls back to plain http with the client having an http cookie. Based on that general idea, two approaches have been discussea Plan A - HTTPS to the rescue Use HTTPS and client certs. On the Browse.xo, either create a client cert at first boot or derive one from the SSL priv key we already have. Lacking a PKI ( in this case XSs will have self-signed certs, and the whole network will often be offline), we will need to grab the cert from the XS at registration time so we can whitelist it for Browse.xo. This is safer, allows us to upgrade later to always using HTTPS if desired. It has downsides however - we'll have to change the registration protocol, and deal with up/downwards compat issues. - https is significantly more costly in terms of CPU on the XS Plan B - Secure handshake -> http cookie - option Assuming Browse.xo can get its grubby hands on .sugar/default/owner.key (not sure how to negotiate that with Rainbow) then it can perform a simple handshake with the XS over plain HTTP, where the XS issues a challenge string that has to be signed by Browse.xo with the private key. The XS, having the public key can verify the signature. Once it has verified it, it gives Browse.xo a traditional HTTP cookie. This is cryptographically much weaker because - It allows third parties to pose as an XS, and generally play MITM. - After the handshake - the interaction continues over plain http. The cookie may be set to short-lived, but within its lifetime it is trivially sniffed and reused. On the other hand, it allows us to just issue an updated Browse.xo perhaps even for 8.2. Plan C - Simple HTTP cookie Bryan Berry mentioned this strategy at XOCamp: at Browse.xo startup time create a 'fake' cookie in cookies.sqlite . We could use the pubkey -- or a hash of it -- as a cookie. This is trivially MITM'able, and trivially sniffable and reused. It cuts to the chase on plan B. - - - - - Thoughts? Opinions? Code? cheers, m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From simon at schampijer.de Fri Jan 23 14:21:02 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:21:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> Simon Schampijer wrote: > Hi, > > the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it > back in August. Since then there has been some development going into > Pippy (now version 30) > http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog > > But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even > though I sent a reminder > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html > > Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to > git.sugarlabs.org, as well. > > please indicate clearly: > * if you still want to be part of Sucrose (including following the > release cycle) > * any new maintainer that is willing to do this task if you does not want to > * any issues/reasons you have to do so > > Best, > Simon To follow up on this, I mainly want to find a maintainer for Pippy for Sucrose. If there is no one willing to do that we drop it, which is ok - one can still download the xo etc, I just want a clearer situation. Wade, do you have maybe someone in mind? Cheers, Simon From cjb at laptop.org Fri Jan 23 16:41:55 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:41:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: (Marco Pesenti Gritti's message of "Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:17:56 +0100") References: Message-ID: Hi Marco, Got it working now. livecd-creator should be run on x86_64 as: sudo setarch i386 livecd-creator ... > * X doesn't actually crash the system, it's just very broken :) If > you switch to vt and back you can also see some parts of the gdm > screen. It looks definitely like a regression in the updates. If I > build an image with updates disabled X works fine. D'oh, I think OLPC asked Warren to push that X driver update, and it sounds like we didn't test it properly. Is there a good way to select which version of an RPM to use in kickstart, maybe? I tried building Rawhide, and got the error you mentioned, linked below. Running "bash-3.2# mount -t jffs2 mtd0 /mnt" works, though, so I'm not sure what's up / why it's not creating /dev/root properly. Jeremy, any ideas? http://dev.laptop.org/~cjb/f11-boot Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From wadetb at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 19:21:17 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:21:17 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901231621oddeed29j6ba2c2182988fa77@mail.gmail.com> I don't have anyone in mind immediately who is not reading this list,. If anyone is willing to step up to maintain Pippy with the Sucrose release schedule please contact me or reply to this emaiml. So far, the ActivityTeam has a few members but we are not really organized as yet, and time commitments aren't clear. I plan to try to get things more organized next week now that the initial flurry has settled down. Additionally, the AT needs to decide as a group which activities we want to invest the extra effort in to maintain for Sucrose. For now, it's definitely important to do so, but I forsee that in the future Sucrose will just have a list of links to .xo files. Best, -Wade On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Simon Schampijer wrote: > > Hi, > > > > the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it > > back in August. Since then there has been some development going into > > Pippy (now version 30) > > http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog > > > > But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even > > though I sent a reminder > > http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html > > > > Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to > > git.sugarlabs.org, as well. > > > > please indicate clearly: > > * if you still want to be part of Sucrose (including following the > > release cycle) > > * any new maintainer that is willing to do this task if you does not want > to > > * any issues/reasons you have to do so > > > > Best, > > Simon > > > To follow up on this, I mainly want to find a maintainer for Pippy for > Sucrose. If there is no one willing to do that we drop it, which is ok - > one can still download the xo etc, I just want a clearer situation. > > Wade, do you have maybe someone in mind? > > Cheers, > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090123/6b5f38db/attachment-0001.htm From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 20:10:52 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 02:10:52 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:42 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti > wrote: >> * rpm does not work. It complains about mmap failure when reading the >> db, jffs2 related? > > As far as I know, jffs2 doesn't support writable mmaps. In the debian > ports, we add some special magic to tell apt not to use them ( > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_Debian_as_an_upgrade ); and the > following code from pilgrim appears to do something similar: > echo " - Configuring RPM to not use writable mmap (as jffs2 > don't support it)" > mkdir -p $INSTALL_ROOT/etc/rpm > cat < $INSTALL_ROOT/etc/rpm/macros.rpmdb > %__dbi_cdb create private nommap > EOF Good catch, thanks! Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 23 20:12:08 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 02:12:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > D'oh, I think OLPC asked Warren to push that X driver update, and it > sounds like we didn't test it properly. Is there a good way to select > which version of an RPM to use in kickstart, maybe? Which package are you referring to here exactly? I'm confused because F10 and rawhide seem to have the same versions of X packages, and joyride works but F10 doesn't. Marco From gary at garycmartin.com Fri Jan 23 22:16:55 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 03:16:55 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <497A3F74.8040008@genarts.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <497A3F74.8040008@genarts.com> Message-ID: <7C574AD5-93FD-4B09-AA51-87F5D049B4AF@garycmartin.com> On 23 Jan 2009, at 22:06, Gary Oberbrunner wrote: > Hi folks. I guess I'm somewhat confused with all the recent changes > taking place in the OLPC/Sugar world. I have an XO, and for a while I > was keeping up with all the latest joyrides. I think the last one I > installed was just before the old joyride branch went away some time > last year. Now there's a new joyride, but it's known not to be stable > enough for kid-friendly use, & that's fine. But there's also Sucrose > 0.83.4 which looks new & shiny. Can I install this on my XO (and > how), > or do I need to wait for a joyride build containing it? I.e. is > sucrose > an independently installable thing? Sorry to sound like such a newb. FWIW: I've been reasonably successfully running joyride 2631 on an XO for a few days now, and it seems to have all the 0.83.4 Sugar feature freeze changes in. Upgraded from an 8.2 (767) install so I'd have most activities, and get to test the migration from old data-store to new (i.e backup your important data, and don't expect to boot back to the old OS and still keep your old journal entries). Downloaded the .usb and .toc to a usb key, and then ran 'sudo olpc- update --usb' as per usual and rebooted. Then went about getting latest joyride flavour activities using 'wget' and 'sugar-install- bundle' (old browse-101 won't start, and control panel software-update doesn't...) Here's a list of recent .xo bundles you'll likely not have if you've just been using the CP software-updater: Write-61 (latest G1G1 is 60) http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~erikos/bundles/Write-61.xo Browse-103 (latest G1G1 is 101) http://shell.sugarlabs.org/~erikos/bundles/Browse-103.xo Calculate-28 (latest G1G1 is 25) http://people.sugarlabs.org/~rwh/Calculate/Calculate-28.xo Chat-62 (latest G1G1 is 48) http://dev.laptop.org/~morgan/bundles/Chat-62.xo Read-63 (latest G1G1 is 52) http://dev.laptop.org/~morgan/bundles/Read-63.xo Etoys-99 (latest G1G1 is 94) http://etoys.laptop.org/rpms/Etoys-99.xo TurtleArt-24 (latest G1G1 is 10) http://sugarlabs.org/wiki/images/b/b1/TurtleArt-24.xo Image Viewer (not part of G1G1) http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/bundles/imageviewer/ImageViewer-5.xo Terminal-21 (18) http://dev.laptop.org/~sayamindu/bundles/terminal/Terminal-21.xo Jukebox-5 (not part of G1G1) http://dev.laptop.org/~kushal/Jukebox-5.xo You'll get to play/test new things like: - resume from home by default (BTW: it defaults to off) - activity name prompting when closing un-titled activities - new colour picker (Write) - Journal favourite filter - Access to XO home palette from your buddy icon in the frame Some obvious current pitfalls: - Mic light stays on all the time, very big brother ;-) - Software-updater... doesn't (and is pointing to the old G1G1 activity group anyway) - No working mesh network - Reasonably working AP network as long as you don't sleep/close-lid/ ctrl-alt-erase I've only just started finding/filling trac tickets for bugs I spot, would be great to get more of the braver XO owners doing the same. Also I'm sure feedback to the list about the new features would be very welcome, while there's still perhaps a little time to make refinements: http://dev.sugarlabs.org I think the plan of action from SugarLabs is to get the Sugar-on-a- Stick working well enough for XO owners, so we can try/test all the shiny new changes from a USB stick while keeping our existing release OS and data intact. So for the XO owning risk averse, it's probably worth waiting for an official announcement regarding SoaS. Happy testing! --Gary > -- > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > Gary Oberbrunner garyo at genarts.com > GenArts, Inc. Tel: 617-492-2888 > 955 Mass. Ave Fax: 617-492-2852 > Cambridge, MA 02139 USA www.genarts.com > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel From bernie at codewiz.org Sat Jan 24 00:39:08 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:39:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <20090123182755.GO4596@jones.dk> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> <20090123182755.GO4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: <497AA97C.8010307@codewiz.org> Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> - Given the above, the word "Closes: " steals precious characters, >> and is rather easy to deduce, therefore I'd opt it out. > > It really makes better sense to me to not squeeze bug hints into that > first line at all, but instead include them in a later line of the > commit. > > Dropping the leading "Closes: " makes it harder to rely on for automated > bug closing. You might not care about that, but I must say that I find > that mechanism pretty cool on Debian. If the "Closes:" line is going to be part of the long description, then I totally agree we should use it. I'd even propose the adoption the other conventional headers used by the Linux kernel community: Signed-off-by: Random J. Hacker Reviewed-by: Random J. Reader Tested-by: Random J. Tester Ack-by: Random J. Approver Cc: Random J. Developer The semantics are described here: http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.28.1/Documentation/SubmittingPatches#L377 >> - To reduce clutter, I'd make the "SL" prefix implied, and leave >> other prefixes such as OLPC#123 and RH#456 explicit. > > You mean that you agree with my proposal of having "SL" _optional_ or > you mean that it must never be there? > > Imagine a future fork of Sugarlabs. Let's call it "Suguntu" to hint at > where I am going with this. Suguntu has their own bug tracking system, > and some Sugarlabs developers gets hired to work on both systems in > parallel. In the beginning Suguntu acts as downstram to Sugarlabs, but > over time some parts of Sugar then gets primarily maintained at Suguntu > so some changelog entries close Suguntu bugreports and not Sugarlabs > ones. I'd say it makes sense to allow "SL" as a hint, but just have it > be optional so that for packages only maintained upstream at Sugarlabs > there is no need to add it to eah and eery bug hint. I meant it should have been optional, but if we switch to using the "Closes: header in the body, where we have no size constraints, then we could has well use the prefix consistently. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 02:10:53 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:10:53 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <497AA97C.8010307@codewiz.org> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> <20090123182755.GO4596@jones.dk> <497AA97C.8010307@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <46a038f90901232310s1a4dd618k3fc77ae285bf9060@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > I meant it should have been optional, but if we switch to using the > "Closes: header in the body, where we have no size constraints, then > we could has well use the prefix consistently. One important note WRT 'Closes'... Code hits git way earlier than it hits the package. So in most projects where I work, people will put in the commit msg a bugnumber, meaning that it's _related_ to that bug. To say it 'closes' the bug denotes a confidence I rarely have when working with the SCM. Once it's tested, and everyone's happy, the new release gets packaged, and we can say - with more confidence - that it closes some bugs. For example I have done series of 100+ patches related to one "bug". None of them "closed" it, but once the new (major) release was ready, the package changelog did say "Closes: #123". What's good for packaging... is good for packaging! cheers, martin -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 24 03:43:05 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:43:05 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.0 In-Reply-To: <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> Message-ID: <242851610901240043n760bc63dy4e3f54e06d3869a@mail.gmail.com> [adding sugar-devel to cc] 2009/1/23 James Simmons : > Jigish, > > OK, I uninstalled both sugar and sugar-activities, then installed just > sugar. It did not complain of missing dependencies, and seemed to install > just fine. Then I tried running sugar from the command line as you > instructed: > > dbus-launch sugar > matchbox-window-manager: Failed to connect to session manager > root window unavailible (maybe another wm is running?) > /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py:19: > DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib module > instead > import sha > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/bin/sugar-session", line 41, in > from jarabe.desktop.homewindow import HomeWindow > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/homewindow.py", line > 24, in > from jarabe.desktop.meshbox import MeshBox > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py", line > 35, in > from sugar.activity import activityfactory > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/activity/activityfactory.py", > line 29, in > from sugar.presence import presenceservice > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/presence/presenceservice.py", > line 32, in > from sugar.presence.activity import Activity > File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/presence/activity.py", line > 27, in > import telepathy > ImportError: No module named telepathy > > I can see a couple of things here: > > 1). It still is complaining about the root window, so I'm guessing that > even if it worked it wouldn't run in a window like sugar-jhbuild does. Try running sugar-emulator instead of dbus-launch sugar, that will run xephyr and inside it, sugar. > 2). It still is complaining about telepathy. Can you attach the output of: python -v -c 'import telepathy' Thanks, Tomeu > The traceback above is after I installed nearly everything telepathy-related > from YAST. The list of all I installed is as follows: > > rpm -qa | grep telepathy > libtelepathy-0.3.3-1.83 > libtelepathy-glib0-0.7.17-1.29 > telepathy-mission-control-devel-4.67-18.20 > telepathy-gabble-0.7.10-1.27 > telepathy-haze-0.2.1-1.30 > telepathy-mission-control-4.67-18.20 > telepathy-glib-devel-0.7.17-1.17 > telepathy-stream-engine-0.5.3-1.66 > telepathy-salut-0.3.5-1.29 > telepathy-idle-0.1.2-2.35 > python-telepathy-0.15.0-1.1 > libtelepathy-devel-0.3.3-1.83 > gnome-phone-manager-telepathy-0.60-1.52 > > As you can see python-telepathy is installed. > > I hope you can figure out what is wrong here. I haven't been able to get a > fully functioning development environment for Sugar on either of my Linux > workstations, and it has made it difficult to write and test Activities. I > considered replacing openSUSE with Fedora but the Fedora live CD seems to > need a lot more memory to run than I have (I have 256 meg). > > Thanks again, > > James Simmons > > > --- > > > Jigish Gohil wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:45 PM, James Simmons > wrote: > > > Jigish, > > I'm pretty sure that one is installed. The only telepathy stuff that was > not installed was stuff for QT, IRC clients, etc. And python-telepathy and > the hippo canvas stuff should be in the RPM dependencies and get installed > automatically, wouldn't you think? > > > Not if you ignore deps when installing :) > > > > Also, is there a way to run sugar from the command line and have it run in a > window like sugar-jhbuild does? > > > > Try "dbus-launch sugar" > > Ciao > > -J > > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > From bernie at codewiz.org Sat Jan 24 04:42:39 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:42:39 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901232310s1a4dd618k3fc77ae285bf9060@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> <20090123182755.GO4596@jones.dk> <497AA97C.8010307@codewiz.org> <46a038f90901232310s1a4dd618k3fc77ae285bf9060@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497AE28F.4060106@codewiz.org> Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >> I meant it should have been optional, but if we switch to using the >> "Closes: header in the body, where we have no size constraints, then >> we could has well use the prefix consistently. > > One important note WRT 'Closes'... > > Code hits git way earlier than it hits the package. So in most > projects where I work, people will put in the commit msg a bugnumber, > meaning that it's _related_ to that bug. To say it 'closes' the bug > denotes a confidence I rarely have when working with the SCM. Well, it's customary to introduce an additional state where the bug is fixed in the developer's intentions, but not yet QA'd: NEW -> ASSIGNED -> FIXED -> CLOSED However, I'm not advocating for this just yet. Turn our quality knob up too much while our codebase is still a little immature and needs to change rapidly might even be counter-productive (i.e. project takes longer to reach stability). What's interesting about a "Closes:" (or "Fixes:") tag, is that it could be used to automatically close the bug in trac from the post commit hook, thus saving some precious time to our developers. > Once it's tested, and everyone's happy, the new release gets packaged, > and we can say - with more confidence - that it closes some bugs. > > For example I have done series of 100+ patches related to one "bug". > None of them "closed" it, but once the new (major) release was ready, > the package changelog did say "Closes: #123". > > What's good for packaging... is good for packaging! Right, but who prepares the package changelog? If we're going to come up with something like the detailed Changelog that GNU coding practices demand, it's a lot of burden for very little value. The "humanized" release notes that Simon prepares, with reference to important bugs and new features, is ideal. A simple query in trac should be enough to find out what bugs were fixed between 0.42.1 and 0.42.2 if we care to add and maintain a "target milestone" field. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 24 06:06:39 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:06:39 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901211128j57a34b04nc0fe1413447b7cae@mail.gmail.com> References: <49776E27.7070009@projetofedora.org> <7087c32a0901211054i3a7f33fen8442809abe5d6823@mail.gmail.com> <4977763B.5000104@projetofedora.org> <7087c32a0901211128j57a34b04nc0fe1413447b7cae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901240306p14506abcme3ff59d772e77b7b@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 20:28, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Which activities are you referring to? > You could download a file to the XO whose mime type is linked to an > Activity. This would cause the Journal to launch the Activity to open the > file. > As far as I know, there is currently no way to package a Journal entry as a > file, to be downloaded from a website into Sugar. Ultimately this seems > like the correct solution to this use case. Oh, we have already those: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Journal_entry_bundles Should be used by the XS to provide downloads of backed up entries. Regards, Tomeu > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira > wrote: >> >> I'm working in drupal to create a WebQuest plataform for XO and I'm >> creating special contents where the teacher will can link a task to a >> Activity, so, to complete my work and facilitate the use by children I >> need this issue, to call activities using the XO browser. >> >> Wade Brainerd escreveu: >> >>From Terminal: >> > >> > sugar-launch ActivityName (or substring of activity name) >> > >> > Not sure about launching via Browse. Might be neat to add a Sugar >> > specific URL handler for launching activities, showing the journal, etc. >> > >> > -Wade >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira >> > > > > wrote: >> > >> > Hello Guys! >> > >> > How can i call an activity from shell ? >> > >> > Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar >> > browser >> > activity? How can i do that ? >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira >> > M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ >> > Fedora Community Manager - Latin America >> > http://www.proyectofedora.org >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> > >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> >> Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira >> M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ >> Fedora Community Manager - Latin America >> http://www.proyectofedora.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 06:08:08 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:08:08 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <497AE28F.4060106@codewiz.org> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> <4978344C.9000904@schampijer.de> <20090122150316.GF4596@jones.dk> <497991AB.5080105@codewiz.org> <20090123182755.GO4596@jones.dk> <497AA97C.8010307@codewiz.org> <46a038f90901232310s1a4dd618k3fc77ae285bf9060@mail.gmail.com> <497AE28F.4060106@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <46a038f90901240308q6d60bae0qace1cf275e2faf20@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > Well, it's customary to introduce an additional state where the bug is > fixed in the developer's intentions, but not yet QA'd: > > NEW -> ASSIGNED -> FIXED -> CLOSED Bernie, 99% of my commits are "working on it, mate" ;-) It's not about turning the "quality knob", is about claiming that I "fix" or "close" something way before I know whether this commit fixes it or not. To recap: writing the commit msg happens very early in the process. Claiming to fix or close a bug at that time is... preposterous. I'll normally have tested it on my machine, but will ask the bug reporter to confirm it works for them and ask him/her to close the bug if they are happy with the fix. The Debian workflow, specially "Closes", is geared for the work of a _packager_, who is likely to be applying a well known and tested patch from upstream. So the packager can say with decent confidence "Closes". A packager that merges in new code and puts "closes" immediately in the changelog is acting blinded by his own ego. Given the track record of Debian, that is unlikely to happen :-) cheers, m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 24 09:23:07 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:23:07 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Chris Ball wrote: >> D'oh, I think OLPC asked Warren to push that X driver update, and it >> sounds like we didn't test it properly. Is there a good way to select >> which version of an RPM to use in kickstart, maybe? > > Which package are you referring to here exactly? I'm confused because > F10 and rawhide seem to have the same versions of X packages, and > joyride works but F10 doesn't. Hm, reverting from 2.11 to 2.10 actually fixes it. So I don't get why 2.11 works in joyride. Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 24 09:56:21 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:56:21 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Chris Ball wrote: >> D'oh, I think OLPC asked Warren to push that X driver update, and it >> sounds like we didn't test it properly. Is there a good way to select >> which version of an RPM to use in kickstart, maybe? > > Which package are you referring to here exactly? I'm confused because > F10 and rawhide seem to have the same versions of X packages, and > joyride works but F10 doesn't. Using joyride xorg.conf doesn't help either. Maybe some kind of interaction with the kernel? /me has no clue... Marco From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 24 16:04:15 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:04:15 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.0 In-Reply-To: <242851610901240043n760bc63dy4e3f54e06d3869a@mail.gmail.com> References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> <242851610901240043n760bc63dy4e3f54e06d3869a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: James, Can you try running ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck ? david On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > [adding sugar-devel to cc] > > 2009/1/23 James Simmons : >> Jigish, >> >> OK, I uninstalled both sugar and sugar-activities, then installed just >> sugar. It did not complain of missing dependencies, and seemed to install >> just fine. Then I tried running sugar from the command line as you >> instructed: >> >> dbus-launch sugar >> matchbox-window-manager: Failed to connect to session manager >> root window unavailible (maybe another wm is running?) >> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py:19: >> DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib module >> instead >> import sha >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/bin/sugar-session", line 41, in >> from jarabe.desktop.homewindow import HomeWindow >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/homewindow.py", line >> 24, in >> from jarabe.desktop.meshbox import MeshBox >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/jarabe/desktop/meshbox.py", line >> 35, in >> from sugar.activity import activityfactory >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/activity/activityfactory.py", >> line 29, in >> from sugar.presence import presenceservice >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/presence/presenceservice.py", >> line 32, in >> from sugar.presence.activity import Activity >> File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sugar/presence/activity.py", line >> 27, in >> import telepathy >> ImportError: No module named telepathy >> >> I can see a couple of things here: >> >> 1). It still is complaining about the root window, so I'm guessing that >> even if it worked it wouldn't run in a window like sugar-jhbuild does. > > Try running sugar-emulator instead of dbus-launch sugar, that will run > xephyr and inside it, sugar. > >> 2). It still is complaining about telepathy. > > Can you attach the output of: > > python -v -c 'import telepathy' > > Thanks, > > Tomeu > >> The traceback above is after I installed nearly everything telepathy-related >> from YAST. The list of all I installed is as follows: >> >> rpm -qa | grep telepathy >> libtelepathy-0.3.3-1.83 >> libtelepathy-glib0-0.7.17-1.29 >> telepathy-mission-control-devel-4.67-18.20 >> telepathy-gabble-0.7.10-1.27 >> telepathy-haze-0.2.1-1.30 >> telepathy-mission-control-4.67-18.20 >> telepathy-glib-devel-0.7.17-1.17 >> telepathy-stream-engine-0.5.3-1.66 >> telepathy-salut-0.3.5-1.29 >> telepathy-idle-0.1.2-2.35 >> python-telepathy-0.15.0-1.1 >> libtelepathy-devel-0.3.3-1.83 >> gnome-phone-manager-telepathy-0.60-1.52 >> >> As you can see python-telepathy is installed. >> >> I hope you can figure out what is wrong here. I haven't been able to get a >> fully functioning development environment for Sugar on either of my Linux >> workstations, and it has made it difficult to write and test Activities. I >> considered replacing openSUSE with Fedora but the Fedora live CD seems to >> need a lot more memory to run than I have (I have 256 meg). >> >> Thanks again, >> >> James Simmons >> >> >> --- >> >> >> Jigish Gohil wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:45 PM, James Simmons >> wrote: >> >> >> Jigish, >> >> I'm pretty sure that one is installed. The only telepathy stuff that was >> not installed was stuff for QT, IRC clients, etc. And python-telepathy and >> the hippo canvas stuff should be in the RPM dependencies and get installed >> automatically, wouldn't you think? >> >> >> Not if you ignore deps when installing :) >> >> >> >> Also, is there a way to run sugar from the command line and have it run in a >> window like sugar-jhbuild does? >> >> >> >> Try "dbus-launch sugar" >> >> Ciao >> >> -J >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 24 17:43:43 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:43:43 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497B999F.600@when.com> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti > wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Chris Ball wrote: >>> D'oh, I think OLPC asked Warren to push that X driver update, and it >>> sounds like we didn't test it properly. Is there a good way to select >>> which version of an RPM to use in kickstart, maybe? >> Which package are you referring to here exactly? I'm confused because >> F10 and rawhide seem to have the same versions of X packages, and >> joyride works but F10 doesn't. > > Hm, reverting from 2.11 to 2.10 actually fixes it. So I don't get why > 2.11 works in joyride. > > Marco I just wanted to add that it's possible to select a specific version in a kickstart file. Though, as far as I know, it's a revisor-only feature. You can run revisor and add the --kickstart-exact-nevra option then: --kickstart-exact-nevra Force Revisor to interpret the package manifest as complete package nevra (name, epoch, version, release and architecture). Implies --kickstart-exact 'yum install revisor' should do the trick [1]. ;) --Sebastian [1] https://fedorahosted.org/revisor/ From martines at unimelb.edu.au Thu Jan 15 03:02:38 2009 From: martines at unimelb.edu.au (Martin Edmund Sevior) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:02:38 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> <8cc423ef0901140442k5424db55sc4f035a1d53625dd@mail.gmail.com> <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E93@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> <496EBACA.4070908@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E95@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> Hi Benjamin, Thanks very much! I'm very interested in looking at the source code and data structures. These kind of problems are exactly what abicollab (as used by Write) solves. I have given some detailed presentations about this. You can find one here: (the ogg version) http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Wed/mel8-083.ogg (presentation odp) http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/slides/083-AbiCollab.odp and wiki write up: http://www.abisource.com/wiki/AbiCollab Maybe these ideas can help. Cheers! Martin -----Original Message----- From: sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org on behalf of Benjamin M. Schwartz Sent: Thu 1/15/2009 3:25 PM To: Martin Edmund Sevior Cc: bens at alum.mit.edu; Sugar Devel; Chris Ball Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: > How do you solve "internet lag". > > User A puts a character "A" in position 10, then before user B see sees this (because of the finite propagation time), he puts character "B" in position 10? > > Who wins? You just have to make sure the the document remains the same for both users. This is, indeed, the central problem. For the moment, the answer is: Groupthink does not support full documents, only short snippets of text. I have prototyped a data structure that I believe can coherently resolve these sorts of edit conflicts in long documents without any negotiation, but it remains to be seen if the design will work. In general, Groupthink's approach (described at length in docstrings in the code) is to write each data structure in such a way that any two users who have observed the same set of messages will arrive at the same state, regardless of the order in which those messages are received. The hard part is figuring out how to do this for each kind of data structure. However, once it is working, the code can be reused for many purposes without needing to understand how it works. - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkluuskACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQb2QCfXnSJHwZpn6Q/OsDSs8nJEb3x vWIAoIJYuSuEp8EFOeKynHDLctW2S5iq =Po5R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090115/53e11b04/attachment-0001.htm From jmaloney at media.mit.edu Thu Jan 15 07:55:48 2009 From: jmaloney at media.mit.edu (John Maloney) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:55:48 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <496EF021.6090907@gmx.net> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> <32360724-0E32-4E97-81CC-60F8A88D611C@freudenbergs.de> <496EF021.6090907@gmx.net> Message-ID: Hi, Phillip. Re: > There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the Project > directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity > folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and > scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. In Scratch 11, a symbolic link was included in the .xo and unzipping re-created that link. Someone else helped me create that mechanism (sorry I can't quite remember who). But you are right, it no longer works in v12, either because I changed something about my process for creating the .xo file or perhaps because of a change in the XO software (less likely). I will look into this. -- John > > > Regards, > Philipp > > Bert Freudenberg wrote: >> The script looks good, except for the name mangling magic (which is >> a bit hard to understand because of mis-indentations). This >> wouldn't even work with your XO's language set to non-English >> (which the majority of XOs use). >> I would simply name the file "$object_id.sb". >> - Bert - >> On 14.01.2009, at 07:04, Philipp Kocher wrote: >>> Hi John >>> >>> Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot >>> the USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached >>> mimetypes.xml. It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. >>> >>> Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the >>> parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted (copy- >>> from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the attached >>> scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash scripts, so >>> please give feedback. >>> >>> I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal >>> directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, >>> but for opening project it should work fine. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Philipp >>> >>> John Maloney wrote: >>>> Hi, Phillip. >>>> Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked >>>> at several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure >>>> out from them how to do this. >>>> I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. >>>> Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file >>>> similar to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be >>>> unnecessary? >>>> -- John >>>> On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: >>>>> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put >>>>>>>>> into the >>>>>>>>> Journal >>>>>>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon >>>>>>>>> rather than the >>>>>>>>> generic document icon? >>>>>>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained >>>>>>>> here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file >>>>>>>> into the >>>>>>>> xdg mime database. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what >>>>>>> Philipp had done. >>>>>> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >>>>>>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >>>>>>> downloading >>>>>>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - >>>>>>> why is that?) >>>>>> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in >>>>>> the etoys >>>>>> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Tomeu >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. >>>>> However, the >>>>> mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I >>>>> just >>>>> had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to >>>>> "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity >>>>> dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using >>>>> that feature. >>>>> Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the >>>>> icon. >>>>> >>>>> John, could you please make the following changes in the next >>>>> Scratch >>>>> version: >>>>> - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the >>>>> activity.info file >>>>> - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" >>>>> in the >>>>> activity directory >>>>> >>>>> Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm >>>>> etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file >>>>> /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm sugar- >>>>> artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is >>>>> adding the file >>>>> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake- >>>>> project.svg. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Philipp >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Scratch Project >>> >>> >>> >>> #!/bin/sh >>> # Author: Bert Freudenberg >>> # Modified by: John Maloney >>> # Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine >>> >>> echo "scratch-activity" >>> echo "$@" >>> >>> echo "$0" "$@" >>> echo >>> >>> # arguments are unordered, have to loop >>> args="" >>> while [ -n "$2" ] ; do >>> case "$1" in >>> -b | --bundle-id) bundle_id="$2" ; args="$args >>> BUNDLE_ID $2" ;; >>> -a | --activity-id) activity_id="$2" ; args="$args >>> ACTIVITY_ID $2";; >>> -o | --object-id) object_id="$2" ; args="$args >>> OBJECT_ID $2";; >>> -u | --uri) uri="$2" ; args="$args URI $2";; >>> *) echo unknown argument $1 $2 ;; >>> esac >>> shift;shift >>> done >>> >>> # really need bundle id and activity id >>> if [ -z "$bundle_id" -o -z "$activity_id" ] ; then >>> echo ERROR: bundle-id and activity-id arguments required >>> echo Aborting >>> exit 1 >>> fi >>> >>> # some debug output >>> echo launching $bundle_id instance $activity_id >>> [ -n "$object_id" ] && echo with journal obj $object_id >>> [ -n "$uri" ] && echo loading uri $uri >>> echo >>> >>> # do not crash on dbus errors >>> export DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0 >>> >>> if [ -n "$object_id" ] ; then >>> JOURNAL_DIR="$SUGAR_ACTIVITY_ROOT/data/Journal" >>> mkdir -p "$JOURNAL_DIR" >>> temp_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/temp.sb" >>> title=`copy-from-journal -o "$object_id" -m "$temp_filename" | >>> grep "title "` >>> # title is something like this for files downloaded from server: >>> # title -> File do_math_3.sb from http://schoolserver/Scratch/do_math_3.sb >>> . >>> # or like this if copied from USB flash drive: >>> # title -> do_math_3 >>> title=${title#*"title -> "} #cut off description >>> echo "title: $title" >>> >>> # workaround for copy-from-journal bug (adds another dot before >>> fileextension) >>> if [ -f "$JOURNAL_DIR/temp..sb" ] ; then >>> mv "$JOURNAL_DIR/temp..sb" "$temp_filename" >>> fi >>> >>> if [[ "$title" == File*from* ]] ; then # for files downloaded >>> from server >>> filename=${title#*"File "} #cut off head until "File " >>> filename=${filename%" from"*} #cut off tail from " from" >>> echo "filename: $filename" >>> full_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/$filename" >>> echo "full_filename: $full_filename" >>> mv "$temp_filename" "$full_filename" >>> else # for files from USB flash drive >>> full_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/$title.sb" >>> echo "full_filename: $full_filename" >>> mv "$temp_filename" "$full_filename" >>> fi >>> else >>> full_filename="" >>> fi >>> # run Squeak VM with Scratch image >>> exec /usr/bin/squeak \ >>> -vm-display-X11 \ >>> -swapbtn \ >>> -sugarBundleId $bundle_id \ >>> -sugarActivityId $activity_id \ >>> ScratchXO.image \ >>> "$full_filename" > From philipp.kocher at gmx.net Thu Jan 15 03:13:21 2009 From: philipp.kocher at gmx.net (Philipp Kocher) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:13:21 +0700 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <32360724-0E32-4E97-81CC-60F8A88D611C@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> <32360724-0E32-4E97-81CC-60F8A88D611C@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: <496EF021.6090907@gmx.net> You are right. It doesn't work like that, but the filename is quite important to me. It is shown in the Scratch GUI and it is an important marker to find the project, when save and not save as is used. I wouldn't just take the object_id. What do you think John? There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the Project directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get created. Regards, Philipp Bert Freudenberg wrote: > The script looks good, except for the name mangling magic (which is a > bit hard to understand because of mis-indentations). This wouldn't even > work with your XO's language set to non-English (which the majority of > XOs use). > > I would simply name the file "$object_id.sb". > > - Bert - > > On 14.01.2009, at 07:04, Philipp Kocher wrote: > >> Hi John >> >> Yes, we need the mimetypes.xml file as well (thanks Tomeu I forgot the >> USB flash drive use case). I have tested the attached mimetypes.xml. >> It is working fine. Put it in the activity directory. >> >> Furthermore we have to change the scratch-activity script, so the >> parameter with the scratch project object-id gets converted >> (copy-from-journal) in a file and passed on to scratch. See the >> attached scratch-activity script. I am not an expert with bash >> scripts, so please give feedback. >> >> I would like to extend the script so project files in the journal >> directory are copied back to the journal after exiting scratch, but >> for opening project it should work fine. >> >> Best regards, >> Philipp >> >> John Maloney wrote: >>> Hi, Phillip. >>> Thanks for all your hard work in tracking this down. I had looked at >>> several other packages, including EToys, and couldn't figure out from >>> them how to do this. >>> I will make these changes to the next XO Scratch bundle. >>> Is that all I need to do? What about the mime types XML file similar >>> to the one added by Etoys? Does that turn out to be unnecessary? >>> -- John >>> On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:55 AM, Philipp Kocher wrote: >>>> Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 18:50, Bert Freudenberg >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On 12.01.2009, at 18:11, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>>>>>>> So what would the Scratch activity have to do so files put into the >>>>>>>> Journal >>>>>>>> (maybe by downloading) are displayed using a Scratch icon rather >>>>>>>> than the >>>>>>>> generic document icon? >>>>>>> Shipping a mimetypes.xml file inside the bundle as explained here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_bundles#Bundle_Structure >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sugar will call update-mime-database and will merge that file >>>>>>> into the >>>>>>> xdg mime database. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that John is already trying this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Guess I'm confused then - I thought that's exactly what Philipp >>>>>> had done. >>>>> I think he just changed the mime_types field in the .info file. >>>>>> And I just checked and it does work with Etoys projects. When >>>>>> downloading >>>>>> one it indeed gets an etoys icon (although at a smaller size - why >>>>>> is that?) >>>>> No idea, though I think that the mime database is updated in the etoys >>>>> rpm and not in the bundle, am I right? >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Tomeu >>>> >>>> Thanks Tomeu to lead me to the /home/olpc/.local directory. However, >>>> the >>>> mimetypes.xml is not necessary to get the icon in the journal. I just >>>> had to copy the scratch icon file in the activity directory to >>>> "application-x-scratch-project.svg" (also in the scratch activity >>>> dirctory). The Memorize Activity is a good example for using that >>>> feature. >>>> Sugar has to be restarted after installing Scratch to show the icon. >>>> >>>> John, could you please make the following changes in the next Scratch >>>> version: >>>> - add the line "mime_types = application/x-scratch-project" to the >>>> activity.info file >>>> - copy the scratch icon to "application-x-scratch-project.svg" in the >>>> activity directory >>>> >>>> Etoys gets configured by different packages. e.g. the rpm >>>> etoys-3.0.2153-1.noarch is adding the file >>>> /usr/share/mime/packges/etoys.xml and the rpm >>>> sugar-artwork-0.82.3-1.olpc3 is >>>> adding the file >>>> /usr/share/icons/sugar/scalable/mimetypes/application-x-squake-project.svg. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Philipp >>>> >> >> >> >> Scratch Project >> >> >> >> #!/bin/sh >> # Author: Bert Freudenberg >> # Modified by: John Maloney >> # Purpose: Run Scratch using the Squeak virtual machine >> >> echo "scratch-activity" >> echo "$@" >> >> echo "$0" "$@" >> echo >> >> # arguments are unordered, have to loop >> args="" >> while [ -n "$2" ] ; do >> case "$1" in >> -b | --bundle-id) bundle_id="$2" ; args="$args BUNDLE_ID >> $2" ;; >> -a | --activity-id) activity_id="$2" ; args="$args >> ACTIVITY_ID $2";; >> -o | --object-id) object_id="$2" ; args="$args OBJECT_ID >> $2";; >> -u | --uri) uri="$2" ; args="$args URI $2";; >> *) echo unknown argument $1 $2 ;; >> esac >> shift;shift >> done >> >> # really need bundle id and activity id >> if [ -z "$bundle_id" -o -z "$activity_id" ] ; then >> echo ERROR: bundle-id and activity-id arguments required >> echo Aborting >> exit 1 >> fi >> >> # some debug output >> echo launching $bundle_id instance $activity_id >> [ -n "$object_id" ] && echo with journal obj $object_id >> [ -n "$uri" ] && echo loading uri $uri >> echo >> >> # do not crash on dbus errors >> export DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0 >> >> if [ -n "$object_id" ] ; then >> JOURNAL_DIR="$SUGAR_ACTIVITY_ROOT/data/Journal" >> mkdir -p "$JOURNAL_DIR" >> temp_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/temp.sb" >> title=`copy-from-journal -o "$object_id" -m "$temp_filename" | >> grep "title "` >> # title is something like this for files downloaded from server: >> # title -> File do_math_3.sb from >> http://schoolserver/Scratch/do_math_3.sb. >> # or like this if copied from USB flash drive: >> # title -> do_math_3 >> title=${title#*"title -> "} #cut off description >> echo "title: $title" >> >> # workaround for copy-from-journal bug (adds another dot before >> fileextension) >> if [ -f "$JOURNAL_DIR/temp..sb" ] ; then >> mv "$JOURNAL_DIR/temp..sb" "$temp_filename" >> fi >> >> if [[ "$title" == File*from* ]] ; then # for files downloaded from >> server >> filename=${title#*"File "} #cut off head until "File " >> filename=${filename%" from"*} #cut off tail from " from" >> echo "filename: $filename" >> full_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/$filename" >> echo "full_filename: $full_filename" >> mv "$temp_filename" "$full_filename" >> else # for files from USB flash drive >> full_filename="$JOURNAL_DIR/$title.sb" >> echo "full_filename: $full_filename" >> mv "$temp_filename" "$full_filename" >> fi >> else >> full_filename="" >> fi >> # run Squeak VM with Scratch image >> exec /usr/bin/squeak \ >> -vm-display-X11 \ >> -swapbtn \ >> -sugarBundleId $bundle_id \ >> -sugarActivityId $activity_id \ >> ScratchXO.image \ >> "$full_filename" > > > From jmaloney at media.mit.edu Thu Jan 15 08:31:29 2009 From: jmaloney at media.mit.edu (John Maloney) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:31:29 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Journal integration for Scratch In-Reply-To: <7C0478E6-F765-45D1-920D-275A3B119145@freudenbergs.de> References: <4949F709.1010901@gmx.net> <496B0283.7070206@gmx.net> <242851610901120116v30b89edegd506aaf7d9f219cd@mail.gmail.com> <12D3DF50-00CF-4A98-BB61-190DDB741932@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120803q60669d7epb7da73724a4182fe@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901120855y3df2db76v99ebab0324d2a5fc@mail.gmail.com> <6C36818C-6856-47E5-B85C-72C7F4DE5222@freudenbergs.de> <242851610901120911k1281b739h8cc4b06dc9fca95f@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901121030t4ec65e88g3e5e2e6f0c301f41@mail.gmail.com> <496C2CDE.7000509@gmx.net> <0D7FE984-4C6F-4F41-A546-13E9804512ED@media.mit.edu> <496D8059.4050906@gmx.net> <32360724-0E32-4E97-81CC-60F8A88D611C@freudenbergs.de> <496EF021.6090907@gmx.net> <7C0478E6-F765-45D1-920D-275A3B119145@freudenbergs.de> Message-ID: Ahh, that would explain it! Maybe we need a couple of lines of shell script to check for the link and create it if it isn't there. -- John On Jan 15, 2009, at 7:56 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > On 15.01.2009, at 13:55, John Maloney wrote: > >> Hi, Phillip. >> >> Re: >>> There is a bug in Scratch version 12. The symbolic link of the >>> Project >>> directory doesn't get created (Open Projects shows Scratch.activity >>> folder instead). I checked the scripts (scratch-activity and >>> scratch-wrapper) but couldn't find where the link should get >>> created. >> >> In Scratch 11, a symbolic link was included in the .xo and >> unzipping re-created that link. Someone else helped me create that >> mechanism (sorry I can't quite remember who). But you are right, it >> no longer works in v12, either because I changed something about my >> process for creating the .xo file or perhaps because of a change in >> the XO software (less likely). >> >> I will look into this. > > > Unless someone fixed this in the mean time, symbolic links in > bundles are not preserved: > > http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4584 > > - Bert - > > From michael.r.stone at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 12:48:22 2009 From: michael.r.stone at gmail.com (Michael Stone) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:48:22 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: <496F7463.70708@bga.com> References: <496F7463.70708@bga.com> Message-ID: <961dd6930901150948y7a082055r1e5281da26cde449@mail.gmail.com> Mikus, An idea that I've been working on for the last few days (which is certainly compatible with proxies) is to use recent distro packages to build a chroot from which to test sugar. I've (clumsily) described my preliminary procedures in http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Chroot. (Unfortunately, there's a gconf infelicity in the rawhide chroot that prevents sugar from successfully launching; however, things work nicely in the debian sid chroot.) Regards, Michael P.S. - It should even be possible to use Linux' new network namespaces feature to set up arbitrary network configurations for efficient network testing -- even between multiple versions of sugar -- on a single machine! On 1/15/09, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >> I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the >> developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) >> >> These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the >> only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have >> packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions >> as our primary means of delivery, it makes sense to reduce the >> emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. > > I am not currently a git user because git appears to not support a > proxy (and to try to bypass that proxy I would need rewiring the > place). But jhbuild looks like the principal alternative to my > having to wait for someone to supply me with a binary for my XO. > > I am concerned that 1cc is now focusing on Windows (for instance, > see what kind of tickets have recently been posted to laptop.org > trac). Should binaries (with updated Sugar content) for the XO-1 > platform cease to be available, would the jhbuild environment you > envision be able to create a build for the XO-1 platform ? > > mikus > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From rakesh7biswas at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 08:55:21 2009 From: rakesh7biswas at gmail.com (Rakesh Biswas) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:25:21 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [Olpc-open] Mitra's talk on hole in the wall In-Reply-To: <32bca7340901132143m5bb24b5ck977a1dfb5f7963a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5fb387c70901132127i4495b368v644026ca5279ba59@mail.gmail.com> <32bca7340901132143m5bb24b5ck977a1dfb5f7963a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4d785e270901170555o68a4d95ao434933ff5dcecc16@mail.gmail.com> Well I guess this may be because Mitra's shared access group learning model is in contrast to individualization of learning through a single laptop for a single child as per the olpc model. It would be interesting to see comparative studies of computer kiosk based minimally invasive learning visa vis olpc learning. Here is an interesting article from India http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/19/05/90/PDF/Inamdar-Parimala-2007.pdf where experiments with minimally invasive learning have been documented and perhaps if we can set up olpc projects in similar locations there could be head to head comparison studies. rakesh On 1/14/09, Charbax wrote: > > Hi, just wanted to say that i was there in Geneva at the Lift conference at > Sugata Mitra's talk. I was filming video interviews for > http://techvideoblog.com/category/lift/ > > I remember I approached Sugata Mitra after his talk to ask him what he > thought about the OLPC project. I am not sure I understood what he had to > say about OLPC or perhaps I just don't remember it clearly. But I think he > wasn't totally enthusiastic about OLPC which I thought was weird. > > > But I guess that he is researching some other angle on the problem. > > > Anyways, I hoe that with Obama that OLPC can hurry up and fix all the > worlds problems. Cause the Children are growing older without a much better > education system that they deserve. And I am thinking the problem is not > only in poor countries, although their problem obvisously is the biggest, I > think that all Children in all countries are waiting for the school system > to be made better. And that I think is using computers and the Internet in a > clever way. > > On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > >> Just saw Sugata Mitra's talk at Lift (http://liftconference.com/) on >> the hole-in-the-wall experiment and the data they collected. Most >> impressive was the concept of self-organized learning that happened in >> these places. >> http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/sugata_mitra_shows_how_kids_teach_themselves.html >> It goes against all the talk about teacher training, etc. >> >> Sameer >> -- >> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. >> Associate Professor of Information Systems >> San Francisco State University >> San Francisco CA 94132 USA >> http://verma.sfsu.edu/ >> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Olpc-open mailing list >> Olpc-open at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-open >> > > > > -- > Charbax, > Nicolas Charbonnier > > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090117/ba25339f/attachment-0001.htm From sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af Mon Jan 19 07:50:20 2009 From: sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af (Sohaib Obaidi Ebtihaj) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:50:20 +0500 (PKT) Subject: [Sugar-devel] OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school Message-ID: <55387.124.109.47.234.1232369420.squirrel@webmail2.paiwastoon.com.af> Hi, In its first deployment plan OLPC-AF provides XO's to every single child in a school in grades 1-6 in Jalalabad city of Ningarhar province. The school name Iesteqlal Hight School in Jalalalbad city with 1020 children of grade 1-6. Twenty teachers are to be trained in this school. ISTIQLAL HIGH SCHOOL. School : Istiqlal High Scool Students : 1020 (Grade 1-6) Teachers : 20 Laptops : 450 Read about the OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Afghanistan/Deployment_News Kind comments are appreciated. thanks. -- Sohaib Obaidi Ebtihaj OLPC Afghanistan, Community Development Liaison. BSc (Hons) Economics, IIUI. +92-334-9072974 +93-797-221401 sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af Skype: sohaib.obaidi http://www.olpc.af http://www.olpc.blogsky.com PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. 1st Street Kart-e Se, House no. 5 Opposite Habibia High School Kabul, Afghanistan From ebtihaj_obaidi at yahoo.com Mon Jan 19 07:57:21 2009 From: ebtihaj_obaidi at yahoo.com (Ebtihaj Obaidi) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 04:57:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Sugar-devel] OLPC Afghanistan First Pilot School Message-ID: <250663.53379.qm@web58408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") { var YAHOO = {}; } YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {}; YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = []; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { "lw_1232369730_0": { "text": "http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Afghanistan/Deployment_News", "extended": 0, "startchar": 686, "endchar": 743, "start": 686, "end": 743, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "450?? Read about the OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Afghanistan/Deployment_News??Kind comments are appreciated. thanks. --??Sohaib Obaidi Ebtihaj OLPC Afghanistan", "metaData": { "linkHref": "http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Afghanistan/Deployment_News", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1232369730_1": { "text": "sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1040, "endchar": 1063, "start": 1040, "end": 1063, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/mailto"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Afghanistan, Community Development Liaison. BSc (Hons) Economics, IIUI. +92-334-9072974 +93-797-221401 sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af Skype: sohaib.obaidi http://www.olpc.af http://www.olpc.blogsky.com??PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. 1st Street", "metaData": { "linkHref": "mailto:sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af", "linkProtocol": "mailto", "linkYmailto": "mailto:sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1232369730_2": { "text": "http://www.olpc.af", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1140, "endchar": 1157, "start": 1140, "end": 1157, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "Liaison. BSc (Hons) Economics, IIUI. +92-334-9072974 +93-797-221401 sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af Skype: sohaib.obaidi http://www.olpc.af http://www.olpc.blogsky.com??PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. 1st Street Kart-e Se, House", "metaData": { "linkHref": "http://www.olpc.af", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } }, "lw_1232369730_3": { "text": "http://www.olpc.blogsky.com", "extended": 0, "startchar": 1219, "endchar": 1245, "start": 1219, "end": 1245, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "relScore": 0, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "wikiId": "", "relatedWikiIds": [], "relatedEntities": [], "showOnClick": [], "context": "BSc (Hons) Economics, IIUI. +92-334-9072974 +93-797-221401 sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af Skype: sohaib.obaidi http://www.olpc.af http://www.olpc.blogsky.com??PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. 1st Street Kart-e Se, House no", "metaData": { "linkHref": "http://www.olpc.blogsky.com", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" } } }; YAHOO.Shortcuts.headerID = "361538157b06ac2186c5c08050b84670"; Hi, In its first deployment plan OLPC-AF provides XO's to every single child in a school in grades 1-6 in Jalalabad city of Ningarhar province. The school name Iesteqlal Hight School in Jalalalbad city with 1020 children of grade 1-6. Twenty teachers are to be trained in this school. ISTIQLAL HIGH SCHOOL. School???:? Istiqlal High Scool Students :? ? ? ? 1020 (Grade 1-6) Teachers :? ? ? ? ? 20 Laptops? :? ? ? ???450 Read more about the OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Afghanistan/Deployment_News Kind comments are appreciated. thanks. -- Sohaib Obaidi Ebtihaj OLPC Afghanistan, Community Development Liaison. BSc (Hons) Economics, IIUI. +92-334-9072974 +93-797-221401 sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af Skype: sohaib.obaidi http://www.olpc.af http://www.olpc.blogsky.com PAIWASTOON Networking Services Ltd. 1st Street Kart-e Se, House no. 5 Opposite Habibia High School Kabul, Afghanistan Sohaib Obaidi "Ebtihaj" BSc. (Hons.) Economics, IIIE-IIUI Community Development Liaison OLPC Afghanistan +923349072974 sohaib at paiwastoon.com.af http://www.eqtisad.co.cc http://www.olpc.blogsky.com http://www.olpc.af -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090119/524c4a6b/attachment-0001.htm From quozl at laptop.org Tue Jan 20 23:01:14 2009 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:01:14 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090121040114.GN5897@us.netrek.org> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 04:51:04AM +0100, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > 2 X "fades" a couple of times and then hangs the system. Describe this further? -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Wed Jan 21 12:58:28 2009 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:58:28 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Call Activity Message-ID: <49776244.9080507@projetofedora.org> Hello Guys! How can i call an activity from shell ? Is possible to call a activity from a html page ? How can i do that ? -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org Wed Jan 21 13:18:30 2009 From: rodrigopadula at projetofedora.org (Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:18:30 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Calling activities Message-ID: <497766F6.7010701@projetofedora.org> Hello Guys! How can i call an activity from shell ? Is possible to call a activity from a html page using the sugar browser activity? How can i do that ? -- Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira M.Sc. Student - COPPE/UFRJ Fedora Community Manager - Latin America http://www.proyectofedora.org From lhospo at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 19:22:48 2009 From: lhospo at gmail.com (Leslie Hawthorn) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:22:48 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugarlabs and GSOC In-Reply-To: References: <4869cee70901141717p8b90721pd8931c2831893b6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4869cee70901221622k69b1a21bld3070a28ceeeb80e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Jameson Quinn wrote: > > >> Assuming you are accepted as a mentoring organization, your number of >> student slots would be based on overall popularity as with all other >> organizations. There's full documentation available here that may be helpful >> to you: >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-student-allocations >> > > Just to let you know, this link is broken right now. And the same link on > http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web is, of > course, also broken. > I got the same error message until I logged into my Google Account (using my lhospo at gmail.com address) and the page mystically appeared. That error message is totally confusing. I'll report it to the Google Groups team. Can you sign in and let me know if you are getting the same error message? Thanks for the heads up. Best, LH -- Leslie Hawthorn Program Manager - Open Source Google Inc. http://code.google.com/opensource/ I blog here: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com - http://www.hawthornlandings.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090122/f9c9d837/attachment.htm From jvonau at shaw.ca Thu Jan 22 20:05:49 2009 From: jvonau at shaw.ca (Jerry Vonau) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:05:49 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1232672749.2515.13.camel@f9.vonau.ca> On Thu, 2009-01-22 at 18:01 -0500, Chris Ball wrote: > Hi Marco, > > Some extra steps: > > > * Clone git://git.fedoraproject.org/spin-kickstarts > > * If you want F10 apply spin.patch > > * Apply live.patch in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/imgcreate > > * sudo yum -y install livecd-tools mtd-utils crcimg > * If you're building on F10, s/ext4/ext3/ in fedora-live-base.ks > > > * sudo livecd-creator --cache=cache -c fedora-livecd-desktop.ks > > I'm still not able to get the images I create to boot on the XO -- could > you confirm that you're using the Fedora kernel and initrd? I wonder > what else could be different between our setups.. > > Thanks! > > - Chris. Chris what are you using for the /boot/olpc.fth file? I have luck using the below, in that file, on a usb-drive: \ Boot script for USB boot hex rom-pa fffc7 + 4 $number drop h# 2e19 < [if] patch 2drop erase claim-params : high-ramdisk ( -- ) cv-load-ramdisk h# 22c +lp l@ 1+ memory-limit umin /ramdisk - ffff.f000 and ( new-ramdisk-adr ) ramdisk-adr over /ramdisk move ( new-ramdisk-adr ) to ramdisk-adr ; ' high-ramdisk to load-ramdisk [then] : set-bootpath-dev ( -- ) " /chosen" find-package if ( phandle ) " bootpath" rot get-package-property 0= if ( propval$ ) get-encoded-string ( bootpath$ ) [char] \ left-parse-string 2nip ( dn$ ) dn-buf place ( ) then then " /sd" dn-buf count sindex 0>= if " sd:" else " u:" then " BOOTPATHDEV" $set-macro ; set-bootpath-dev " text ks=hd:LABEL=XSRepo:/ks.cfg " to boot-file " ${BOOTPATHDEV}\boot\initrd.img" expand$ to ramdisk " ${BOOTPATHDEV}\boot\vmlinuz" expand$ to boot-device unfreeze boot The above code is found in the latest livecd-tools and is added if you pass --XO on the cmdline. I'm booting the xs-05 installer with the above code, you would have to edit: "" to boot-file for that boot arguments you want and the vmlinuz and initrd.img lines or make links pointing to the real files. Jerry From garyo at genarts.com Fri Jan 23 17:06:44 2009 From: garyo at genarts.com (Gary Oberbrunner) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:06:44 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <49782B37.3010209@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <497A3F74.8040008@genarts.com> Hi folks. I guess I'm somewhat confused with all the recent changes taking place in the OLPC/Sugar world. I have an XO, and for a while I was keeping up with all the latest joyrides. I think the last one I installed was just before the old joyride branch went away some time last year. Now there's a new joyride, but it's known not to be stable enough for kid-friendly use, & that's fine. But there's also Sucrose 0.83.4 which looks new & shiny. Can I install this on my XO (and how), or do I need to wait for a joyride build containing it? I.e. is sucrose an independently installable thing? Sorry to sound like such a newb. -- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Gary Oberbrunner garyo at genarts.com GenArts, Inc. Tel: 617-492-2888 955 Mass. Ave Fax: 617-492-2852 Cambridge, MA 02139 USA www.genarts.com From bernie at laptop.org Sat Jan 24 04:54:27 2009 From: bernie at laptop.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:54:27 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497AE553.8060008@laptop.org> Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > FWIW, I have noticed mmap errors while trying to deal with large files > (~70MB) on the standard OLPC builds. localedef does not work in the XO > for this (strace shows that it chokes when trying to mmap > /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive) I don't think it's related to the size of the file. Writeable file mappings are just not supported by jffs2, and cause mmap() to return an error. glibc likes to do it when building the locale-archive, and I vaguely remember I had a workaround for this in our fork of the glibc rpm. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From bernie at laptop.org Sat Jan 24 04:59:30 2009 From: bernie at laptop.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:59:30 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS on the XO progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497AE682.6020302@laptop.org> C. Scott Ananian wrote: > It's probably worth reading through the pilgrim > 'streams.d/olpc-development.stream' file to see if there are other > fixes you are missing. Indeed. Starting with a white-room F10 build is going to cause many such regressions, and re-discovering all the associated workarounds is going to cost a lot of time. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From darah.tappitake at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 05:12:15 2009 From: darah.tappitake at gmail.com (Darah Tappitake) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:12:15 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school In-Reply-To: <55387.124.109.47.234.1232369420.squirrel@webmail2.paiwastoon.com.af> Message-ID: Dear Sohaib, Thank you for sending this information, we look forward to the good news that is sure to come from the Afghanistan deployment as it continues to expand. Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Regards, Darah On 1/19/09 7:50 AM, "Sohaib Obaidi Ebtihaj" wrote: > Hi, > In its first deployment plan OLPC-AF provides XO's to every single child > in a school in grades 1-6 in Jalalabad city of Ningarhar province. The > school name Iesteqlal Hight School in Jalalalbad city with 1020 children > of grade 1-6. Twenty teachers are to be trained in this school. > > ISTIQLAL HIGH SCHOOL. > School : Istiqlal High Scool > Students : 1020 (Grade 1-6) > Teachers : 20 > Laptops : 450 > > > Read about the OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school here: > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Afghanistan/Deployment_News > > Kind comments are appreciated. > thanks. From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 24 18:43:25 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:43:25 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] jhbuild obsoleted itself:) In-Reply-To: <961dd6930901150948y7a082055r1e5281da26cde449@mail.gmail.com> References: <496F7463.70708@bga.com> <961dd6930901150948y7a082055r1e5281da26cde449@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Michael, Could you wrap the chroot procees into a script? It looks pretty useful, especially for testing! david On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Michael Stone wrote: > Mikus, > > An idea that I've been working on for the last few days (which is > certainly compatible with proxies) is to use recent distro packages to > build a chroot from which to test sugar. > > I've (clumsily) described my preliminary procedures in > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Chroot. (Unfortunately, > there's a gconf infelicity in the rawhide chroot that prevents sugar > from successfully launching; however, things work nicely in the debian > sid chroot.) > > Regards, > > Michael > > P.S. - It should even be possible to use Linux' new network namespaces > feature to set up arbitrary network configurations for efficient > network testing -- even between multiple versions of sugar -- on a > single machine! > > On 1/15/09, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: >>> I have just gone through the wiki and deleted the >>> developmentteam/jhbuild/* pages:) >>> >>> These pages were created in around June of 2008 when jhbuild was the >>> only method for running Sugar on non-XO platforms. Now that we have >>> packages for several distributions and will be using the distributions >>> as our primary means of delivery, it makes sense to reduce the >>> emphasis of jhbuild as a method for delivering Sugar to end-users. >> >> I am not currently a git user because git appears to not support a >> proxy (and to try to bypass that proxy I would need rewiring the >> place). But jhbuild looks like the principal alternative to my >> having to wait for someone to supply me with a binary for my XO. >> >> I am concerned that 1cc is now focusing on Windows (for instance, >> see what kind of tickets have recently been posted to laptop.org >> trac). Should binaries (with updated Sugar content) for the XO-1 >> platform cease to be available, would the jhbuild environment you >> envision be able to create a build for the XO-1 platform ? >> >> mikus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From bobbypowers at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 03:26:47 2009 From: bobbypowers at gmail.com (Bobby Powers) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:26:47 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha In-Reply-To: <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E95@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> <8cc423ef0901140442k5424db55sc4f035a1d53625dd@mail.gmail.com> <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E93@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> <496EBACA.4070908@fas.harvard.edu> <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E95@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <23e2e54b0901250026g3441ee67ibba9d9ed546072ed@mail.gmail.com> I stumbled across this google tech talk today on the same subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Hp_1jqpY8 I haven't watched most of it yet, but thought others might be interested as well. bobby On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: > > Hi Benjamin, > Thanks very much! I'm very interested in looking at the source > code and data structures. > > These kind of problems are exactly what abicollab (as used by Write) solves. > > I have given some detailed presentations about this. You can find one here: > > (the ogg version) > > http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Wed/mel8-083.ogg > > (presentation odp) > > http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/slides/083-AbiCollab.odp > > and wiki write up: > > http://www.abisource.com/wiki/AbiCollab > > Maybe these ideas can help. > > Cheers! > > Martin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org on behalf of Benjamin M. > Schwartz > Sent: Thu 1/15/2009 3:25 PM > To: Martin Edmund Sevior > Cc: bens at alum.mit.edu; Sugar Devel; Chris Ball > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: >> How do you solve "internet lag". >> >> User A puts a character "A" in position 10, then before user B see sees > this (because of the finite propagation time), he puts character "B" in > position 10? >> >> Who wins? You just have to make sure the the document remains the same > for both users. > > This is, indeed, the central problem. For the moment, the answer is: > Groupthink does not support full documents, only short snippets of text. > I have prototyped a data structure that I believe can coherently resolve > these sorts of edit conflicts in long documents without any negotiation, > but it remains to be seen if the design will work. > > In general, Groupthink's approach (described at length in docstrings in > the code) is to write each data structure in such a way that any two users > who have observed the same set of messages will arrive at the same state, > regardless of the order in which those messages are received. The hard > part is figuring out how to do this for each kind of data structure. > However, once it is working, the code can be reused for many purposes > without needing to understand how it works. > > - --Ben > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkluuskACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQb2QCfXnSJHwZpn6Q/OsDSs8nJEb3x > vWIAoIJYuSuEp8EFOeKynHDLctW2S5iq > =Po5R > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sun Jan 25 06:34:33 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:34:33 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901230742y9a26363oda7e49f18adb6bc0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230722y2b732c4ar2cae11720e703ddd@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230742y9a26363oda7e49f18adb6bc0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901250334u741254c4u41dd307ece55b0f5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 16:42, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> I actually would have appreciated more feedback when I asked for it >> some months ago. Anyway, I trust this layout change will simplify >> things for you at the end. > > Sorry, I probably hid at the sight of "Journal rewrite proposal". You got distracted with shiny stuff! > There were several in the air. The changes you have made are good, I > just didn't know that one of the journal reimplementations had > actually gone ahead :-) Well, shipping the old DS wasn't really an option, so I had to go on with my work even if it risked being dumped further in the release cycle. > Is it possible for you to add a single file that says the "journal > storage" version at the root of it? Something like > > $ cat .sugar/default/datastore/store/format > 2 We actually had it already, have updated the wiki page with info about it. http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite > That would make things a ton easier for ds-backup. ds-backup client > can read that file and tell the server that it's a "format 2" backup, > so the server can re-org the files before the client rsyncs across... > > Without something like that, an upgrade to a new format in a large > school would swamp RF for days... Sounds good, I guess you can do the reorg with hard links in the same script where we had the metadata exported to json. Regards, Tomeu > m > -- > martin.langhoff at gmail.com > martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 21:28:24 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:28:24 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <242851610901250334u741254c4u41dd307ece55b0f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230722y2b732c4ar2cae11720e703ddd@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230742y9a26363oda7e49f18adb6bc0@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901250334u741254c4u41dd307ece55b0f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46a038f90901251828r76ca030cn6bd9c26e2be398d8@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > You got distracted with shiny stuff! Rickrolled indeed :-) >> Is it possible for you to add a single file that says the "journal >> storage" version at the root of it? Something like >> >> $ cat .sugar/default/datastore/store/format >> 2 > > We actually had it already, have updated the wiki page with info about it. > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite Excellent news. Looks good (as described in the wikipage), so the older datastores, having no 'version' file, are a nominal '0'. > Sounds good, I guess you can do the reorg with hard links in the same > script where we had the metadata exported to json. Exactly - guess what the client would have done, build an appropriate hardlink tree, and then let rsync add/remove as appropriate. Avoids transferring the actual data files which may be large. cheers, m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 21:50:14 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:50:14 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? Message-ID: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> The Wellington Testers team has been asking me for an intro to programming Sugar. So far, my strategy was to flee the country, but that trick's getting old... So I've been wondering - what materials would you suggest for a "fast-track into Sugar development" workshop. I am thinking of 2 half-day sessions, one focused on the Sugar stack and the second one on activity creation. The welly testers get together once a week, for ~4hs -- so that limits the format in this case. I won't be the best guy to deliver it, but I'll try. I understand the XO stack fairly well, but I'm not a Sugar dev, so patchy in some areas. There's an active python UG in Welly, so maybe they want to be part of it too. Outcomes ? more devs knowing Sugar stack and activities ==> more patches, more activities? ? more expert testers... ? resulting materials and sliderware ? video of the session - also freely licensed Now that I think of it, it'd be great to do it in Spanish, and circulate it in Uy. Sadly, I don't have a spanish-speaking audience in Welly. cheers, m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 26 03:48:20 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:48:20 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] squeak in debian Message-ID: Is it squeak and etoys that we are missing from debian? They now seem to be available in lenny. http://packages.debian.org/lenny/etoys http://packages.debian.org/lenny/squeak-vm david From luke at faraone.cc Mon Jan 26 09:03:49 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:03:49 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] squeak in debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901260603j38c56141s9ecfd60fbf98407a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:48 AM, David Farning wrote: > Is it squeak and etoys that we are missing from debian? > > They now seem to be available in lenny. > > http://packages.debian.org/lenny/etoys Etoys is in the "non-free" component. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/4f7945b7/attachment.htm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 26 09:05:16 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:05:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Call Activity In-Reply-To: <49776244.9080507@projetofedora.org> References: <49776244.9080507@projetofedora.org> Message-ID: <242851610901260605m2973861fwee7c883fc9de7cf3@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 18:58, Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira wrote: > Hello Guys! > > How can i call an activity from shell ? You can see here how the shell resumes or starts an activity: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src/jarabe/desktop/favoritesview.py#line528 > Is possible to call a activity from a html page ? How can i do that ? With security enabled, it's not possible. Without security, you can handle the event with pyxpcom and then launch the activity in exactly the same way as the shell. Regards, Tomeu From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 11:21:18 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:21:18 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [olpc-nz] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> References: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901260821g75add785j2936d3effe5136b3@mail.gmail.com> I've been doing my best to collect information on getting started here. http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources Note that it's focused on activity development. -Wade On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > The Wellington Testers team has been asking me for an intro to > programming Sugar. So far, my strategy was to flee the country, but > that trick's getting old... > > So I've been wondering - what materials would you suggest for a > "fast-track into Sugar development" workshop. I am thinking of 2 > half-day sessions, one focused on the Sugar stack and the second one > on activity creation. The welly testers get together once a week, for > ~4hs -- so that limits the format in this case. > > I won't be the best guy to deliver it, but I'll try. I understand the > XO stack fairly well, but I'm not a Sugar dev, so patchy in some > areas. > > There's an active python UG in Welly, so maybe they want to be part of it > too. > > Outcomes > ? more devs knowing Sugar stack and activities ==> more patches, more > activities? > ? more expert testers... > ? resulting materials and sliderware > ? video of the session - also freely licensed > > Now that I think of it, it'd be great to do it in Spanish, and > circulate it in Uy. Sadly, I don't have a spanish-speaking audience in > Welly. > > cheers, > > > > m > -- > martin.langhoff at gmail.com > martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > _______________________________________________ > olpc-nz mailing list > olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/784f51f0/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 11:26:59 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:26:59 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list Message-ID: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his SSH key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to the issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support requests? We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM from scratch and re-uploading his public key. Best, Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/e75e0b88/attachment.htm From luke at faraone.cc Mon Jan 26 11:31:00 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:31:00 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901260831n3b378d59tcc45d0aaf9faa192@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his SSH > key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. > We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to the > issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support requests? > We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM > from scratch and re-uploading his public key. > We do, it's systems at lists dot laptop dot org. (private, messages are subject to moderation, simply ask to be CC'd if you're making a inquiry) However, the best way to contact us is via IRC. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/7539fe79/attachment.htm From meta.sj at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 11:35:53 2009 From: meta.sj at gmail.com (Samuel Klein) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:35:53 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901260831n3b378d59tcc45d0aaf9faa192@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> <2eaf0c620901260831n3b378d59tcc45d0aaf9faa192@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901260835v107645f7y2955e859fe0054e@mail.gmail.com> who has access to that list? can we have a public infrastructure discussion list for issues such as this one? --SJ On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Luke Faraone wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >> I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his SSH >> key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. >> We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to >> the issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support requests? >> We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM >> from scratch and re-uploading his public key. > > We do, it's systems at lists dot laptop dot org. (private, messages are > subject to moderation, simply ask to be CC'd if you're making a inquiry) > > However, the best way to contact us is via IRC. > > -- > Luke Faraone > http://luke.faraone.cc > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 11:42:30 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:42:30 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901260835v107645f7y2955e859fe0054e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> <2eaf0c620901260831n3b378d59tcc45d0aaf9faa192@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901260835v107645f7y2955e859fe0054e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901260842h213af5drb69f6d76ae3b3973@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the information, Luke. Note that this is an issue with Sugar Labs' Gitorious, not dev.laptop.org. If the problem persists though, we might have to switch development *back* to d.l.o temporarily :) -Wade On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: > who has access to that list? can we have a public infrastructure > discussion list for issues such as this one? --SJ > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Luke Faraone wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Wade Brainerd > wrote: > >> > >> I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his > SSH > >> key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. > >> We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to > >> the issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support > requests? > >> We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM > >> from scratch and re-uploading his public key. > > > > We do, it's systems at lists dot laptop dot org. (private, messages are > > subject to moderation, simply ask to be CC'd if you're making a inquiry) > > > > However, the best way to contact us is via IRC. > > > > -- > > Luke Faraone > > http://luke.faraone.cc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/3906fb63/attachment-0001.htm From luke at laptop.org Mon Jan 26 11:56:46 2009 From: luke at laptop.org (Luke Faraone) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:56:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901260842h213af5drb69f6d76ae3b3973@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> <2eaf0c620901260831n3b378d59tcc45d0aaf9faa192@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901260835v107645f7y2955e859fe0054e@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901260842h213af5drb69f6d76ae3b3973@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477A956D-9091-4083-B96F-81E554A1DA16@faraone.cc> Oops, I meant @lists.sugarlabs.org :) Sj, we discuss some private security issues on this list, it's our current analog to sysadmin at l.o with RT. -LF On Jan 26, 2009, at 11:42, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Thanks for the information, Luke. > > Note that this is an issue with Sugar Labs' Gitorious, not > dev.laptop.org. If the problem persists though, we might have to > switch development *back* to d.l.o temporarily :) > > -Wade > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Samuel Klein > wrote: > who has access to that list? can we have a public infrastructure > discussion list for issues such as this one? --SJ > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Luke Faraone > wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Wade Brainerd > wrote: > >> > >> I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using > his SSH > >> key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. > >> We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real > attention to > >> the issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure > support requests? > >> We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling > his VM > >> from scratch and re-uploading his public key. > > > > We do, it's systems at lists dot laptop dot org. (private, > messages are > > subject to moderation, simply ask to be CC'd if you're making a > inquiry) > > > > However, the best way to contact us is via IRC. > > > > -- > > Luke Faraone > > http://luke.faraone.cc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/087dfcac/attachment.htm From geirea at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 12:03:18 2009 From: geirea at gmail.com (Gabriel Eirea) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:03:18 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [olpc-nz] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901260821g75add785j2936d3effe5136b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901260821g75add785j2936d3effe5136b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c866f940901260903q2f9a6454taa930a1a00aed0ae@mail.gmail.com> We are planning a Documentation Jam in Uruguay for late February. I think Wade's page is an excellent starting point but we want to do it in Spanish and to write it from our own experience. Many of us started almost from scratch and we want to reflect on the learning curve and get to the essentials so new people can join in with less effort. We have very little experience with Sugar itself. We want to focus at this stage on activities, so we plan to cover things like Python, PyGtk, Cairo, Pango, Pygame, bundling, using git, using trac, using pot files, collaboration, datastore, etc. If you have any new materials or comments, they would be much apprecited. Regards, Gabriel 2009/1/26 Wade Brainerd : > I've been doing my best to collect information on getting started here. > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources > > Note that it's focused on activity development. > -Wade > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Langhoff > wrote: >> >> The Wellington Testers team has been asking me for an intro to >> programming Sugar. So far, my strategy was to flee the country, but >> that trick's getting old... >> >> So I've been wondering - what materials would you suggest for a >> "fast-track into Sugar development" workshop. I am thinking of 2 >> half-day sessions, one focused on the Sugar stack and the second one >> on activity creation. The welly testers get together once a week, for >> ~4hs -- so that limits the format in this case. >> >> I won't be the best guy to deliver it, but I'll try. I understand the >> XO stack fairly well, but I'm not a Sugar dev, so patchy in some >> areas. >> >> There's an active python UG in Welly, so maybe they want to be part of it >> too. >> >> Outcomes >> ? more devs knowing Sugar stack and activities ==> more patches, more >> activities? >> ? more expert testers... >> ? resulting materials and sliderware >> ? video of the session - also freely licensed >> >> Now that I think of it, it'd be great to do it in Spanish, and >> circulate it in Uy. Sadly, I don't have a spanish-speaking audience in >> Welly. >> >> cheers, >> >> >> >> m >> -- >> martin.langhoff at gmail.com >> martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect >> - ask interesting questions >> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff >> _______________________________________________ >> olpc-nz mailing list >> olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From brian at laptop.org Mon Jan 26 14:14:46 2009 From: brian at laptop.org (Brian Jordan) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:14:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <2bcfd3d60901261114p40d68afub930e29de8167d67@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Hi, >> >> the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it >> back in August. Since then there has been some development going into >> Pippy (now version 30) >> http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog >> >> But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even >> though I sent a reminder >> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html >> >> Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to >> git.sugarlabs.org, as well. >> >> please indicate clearly: >> * if you still want to be part of Sucrose (including following the >> release cycle) >> * any new maintainer that is willing to do this task if you does not want to >> * any issues/reasons you have to do so >> >> Best, >> Simon > > > To follow up on this, I mainly want to find a maintainer for Pippy for > Sucrose. If there is no one willing to do that we drop it, which is ok - > one can still download the xo etc, I just want a clearer situation. > Hi, I will maintain Pippy for Sucrose, though I may need a bit of hand holding. Please let me know if what I did seems correct (esp. step 2): 1. l got the most recent version of Pippy from git git-clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/pippy-activity cd pippy-activity 2. ./setup.py gave a bunch of "invalid entry in MANIFEST" errors about different locales, so I ran: ./setup.py fix_manifest 3. ./setup.py dist_source 4. I asked a crank sysadmin to add me to the Sugar group, And I moved Pippy-30.tar.bz2 to: http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/Pippy/Pippy-30.tar.bz2 (805K) I will move pippy over to git.sugarlabs.org as well. Thanks, Brian > Wade, do you have maybe someone in mind? > > Cheers, > Simon > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 26 15:16:58 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:16:58 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his SSH > key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. > We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to the > issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support requests? > We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM from > scratch and re-uploading his public key. We really need an infrastructure squad... I *think* this is an osuosl problem, so you might want to mail the following address with the details. OSL Support Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Mon Jan 26 15:35:03 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:35:03 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [olpc-nz] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901260821g75add785j2936d3effe5136b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901260821g75add785j2936d3effe5136b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I've been doing my best to collect information on getting started here. > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources > > Note that it's focused on activity development. This looks pretty good, Wade. Thanks for putting it together! I don't think we have anything like this about the Sugar core. I'll try to put something together. Marco From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 15:54:15 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:54:15 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <2bcfd3d60901261114p40d68afub930e29de8167d67@mail.gmail.com> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> <2bcfd3d60901261114p40d68afub930e29de8167d67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901261254m79daf04eyf2e87305801e11c6@mail.gmail.com> Awesome, thank you Brian for stepping up! Is something additional required in order to make sure the activity runs properly in SoaS or jhbuild? -Wade On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:14 PM, Brian Jordan wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Simon Schampijer > wrote: > > Simon Schampijer wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it > >> back in August. Since then there has been some development going into > >> Pippy (now version 30) > >> http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog > >> > >> But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even > >> though I sent a reminder > >> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html > >> > >> Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to > >> git.sugarlabs.org, as well. > >> > >> please indicate clearly: > >> * if you still want to be part of Sucrose (including following the > >> release cycle) > >> * any new maintainer that is willing to do this task if you does not > want to > >> * any issues/reasons you have to do so > >> > >> Best, > >> Simon > > > > > > To follow up on this, I mainly want to find a maintainer for Pippy for > > Sucrose. If there is no one willing to do that we drop it, which is ok - > > one can still download the xo etc, I just want a clearer situation. > > > Hi, > > I will maintain Pippy for Sucrose, though I may need a bit of hand holding. > > Please let me know if what I did seems correct (esp. step 2): > > 1. l got the most recent version of Pippy from git > git-clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/pippy-activity > cd pippy-activity > > 2. ./setup.py gave a bunch of "invalid entry in MANIFEST" errors about > different locales, so I ran: > ./setup.py fix_manifest > > 3. ./setup.py dist_source > > 4. I asked a crank sysadmin to add me to the Sugar group, > And I moved Pippy-30.tar.bz2 to: > http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/Pippy/Pippy-30.tar.bz2 (805K) > > I will move pippy over to git.sugarlabs.org as well. > > Thanks, > Brian > > > > Wade, do you have maybe someone in mind? > > > > Cheers, > > Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/bf48623f/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 15:59:52 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:59:52 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901261259q62b36d46q168402ce8042036a@mail.gmail.com> Ok, I forwarded the thread on to all suggested lists. Hopefully it will be resolved soon. -Wade On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his SSH > > key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. > > We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to > the > > issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support requests? > > We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM > from > > scratch and re-uploading his public key. > > We really need an infrastructure squad... I *think* this is an osuosl > problem, so you might want to mail the following address with the > details. > > OSL Support > > Marco > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/7c8ae2dd/attachment.htm From bernie at codewiz.org Mon Jan 26 19:12:42 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 01:12:42 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] infrastructure mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901260826m318e56b4k819a85924c011a87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497E517A.2020809@codewiz.org> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> I have a developer who has been unable to push to Gitorious using his SSH >> key. It was working two weeks ago, then suddenly stopped. >> We have sent emails to Bernie but have not gotten any real attention to the >> issue. Can there be a mailing list for infrastructure support requests? >> We have tried everything we can think of, including reinstalling his VM from >> scratch and re-uploading his public key. > > We really need an infrastructure squad... I *think* this is an osuosl > problem, so you might want to mail the following address with the > details. > > OSL Support All the OSL admins also hang on #osuosl. I think I know what it is: OSL has a weekly cleanup script that repacks the repositories. Last week, it left a few root owned files around. I thought it was fixed, but apparently not. I'll check and let you know. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From bernie at codewiz.org Mon Jan 26 22:04:38 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:04:38 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] status of OLPC project In-Reply-To: <0KD70013JLZ8EI40@mango.nuim.ie> References: <0KD700K40D1KP990@mango.nuim.ie> <4967651B.8020506@fas.harvard.edu> <0KD70013JLZ8EI40@mango.nuim.ie> Message-ID: <497E79C6.9020504@codewiz.org> [cc += sugar-devel@] Victor Lazzarini wrote: > Thanks. Walter has kindly replied to me already, so it > looks like sugar labs is my destination. Hope to be able to > clear up all my marking by the end of next week and by > then I think will also know where I actually fit into this > new scheme of things. > > I'm happy to be back. Thanks a lot for helping! -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From bernie at codewiz.org Mon Jan 26 22:09:19 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:09:19 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] status of OLPC project In-Reply-To: <497E79C6.9020504@codewiz.org> References: <0KD700K40D1KP990@mango.nuim.ie> <4967651B.8020506@fas.harvard.edu> <0KD70013JLZ8EI40@mango.nuim.ie> <497E79C6.9020504@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <497E7ADF.9090606@codewiz.org> Bernie Innocenti wrote: > [cc += sugar-devel@] > > Victor Lazzarini wrote: >> Thanks. Walter has kindly replied to me already, so it >> looks like sugar labs is my destination. Hope to be able to >> clear up all my marking by the end of next week and by >> then I think will also know where I actually fit into this >> new scheme of things. >> >> I'm happy to be back. > > Thanks a lot for helping! Oops, I didn't notice this was an 3 weeks old thread that had jumped back to the top due to Bastien's recent post. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From bernie at codewiz.org Mon Jan 26 22:21:40 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:21:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Authentication in trac Message-ID: <497E7DC4.1010809@codewiz.org> Ciao, following an enlightening tip from Noah, I finally got around to make trac keep us authenticated longer than one day. Let me know if it seems to work. I made a second attempt at installing a new version of the OpenID plugin, but I still couldn't get it to work sanely, so I disabled it again. We should also upgrade to 0.11.2, but I'd prefer Ivan or Noah to do it. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From mel at melchua.com Fri Jan 23 07:23:00 2009 From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:23:00 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] addons.mozilla.org - what needs to be done? Message-ID: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> (ccing the dev list at Wade's request) Hiya, Tomeu - Wade said I should ask you what infrastructure work needs to be done to get addons.mozilla.org up and running. Could you point me towards logins/servers/existing work/trac tickets and help me get started? This afternoon was the first I'd heard about us using addons.mozilla.org, and it gets a huge +1 from me - I'd like to be able to use it for reviews/comments/tags during Activity testing at the Wellington testers meetup next Saturday, so let me know what I have to do to get it up before then. Thanks! --Mel ---- excerpted IRC log, for backstory ---- cjb: is the idea to use the framework for addons.mozilla.org for sugar activities yes, exactly so, it's mainly for delivering .xos to laptops, as our wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities does now there are two different faces to each activity, the user face and the developer face addons.sl.o is the user facing portal ie reviews of activities, comments, tags, hosting of .xo files gitorious and w.sl.o/ActivityTeam/ is the developer facing so, if we create per-activity wiki pages they're gonna be developer focused still, right now I'm down on per-activity anything as things tend to get lost wadeb|w: so if there's any infrastructure work that I can do to help that have a place to go next weekend, I would love to we just need someone to find the time to finish it wadeb|w: I have time, not sure if I have know-how. how can i find out? mchua: yeah, I'm pondering the best way to organize the data mchua: it's just some python-based webserver hacking afaik. wadeb|w: ...that does sound like something I could do wadeb|w: i've got to pop out for a bit, conf lunchtime - it sounds like we need the infrastucture up before we can do any of the per-activity data migration, and that addons.sl.org is the infrastructure that needs to go up, and so my first task should be to get that up? mchua: ok, ping tomeu for information on what needs to be done mchua: sounds like a plan mchua: it's our #1 activity infrastructure need right now From simon at schampijer.de Tue Jan 27 04:26:29 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:26:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Pippy not ready for Sucrose In-Reply-To: <2bcfd3d60901261114p40d68afub930e29de8167d67@mail.gmail.com> References: <4975B50C.7000408@schampijer.de> <497A189E.2000409@schampijer.de> <2bcfd3d60901261114p40d68afub930e29de8167d67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497ED345.60201@schampijer.de> Brian Jordan wrote: > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> the Sucrose package of Pippy is version 25 - when I last released it >>> back in August. Since then there has been some development going into >>> Pippy (now version 30) >>> http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/pippy-activity;a=shortlog >>> >>> But none of the maintainers did follow the Sucrose release cycle, even >>> though I sent a reminder >>> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2008-November/010021.html >>> >>> Any, specific reason for that? Pippy has not been moved to >>> git.sugarlabs.org, as well. >>> >>> please indicate clearly: >>> * if you still want to be part of Sucrose (including following the >>> release cycle) >>> * any new maintainer that is willing to do this task if you does not want to >>> * any issues/reasons you have to do so >>> >>> Best, >>> Simon >> >> To follow up on this, I mainly want to find a maintainer for Pippy for >> Sucrose. If there is no one willing to do that we drop it, which is ok - >> one can still download the xo etc, I just want a clearer situation. >> > Hi, Hi Brian, this is awesome! > I will maintain Pippy for Sucrose, though I may need a bit of hand holding. Hand holding we provide as a default service, you are always welcome to ask if things are unclear. > Please let me know if what I did seems correct (esp. step 2): > > 1. l got the most recent version of Pippy from git > git-clone git://dev.laptop.org/projects/pippy-activity > cd pippy-activity > > 2. ./setup.py gave a bunch of "invalid entry in MANIFEST" errors about > different locales, so I ran: > ./setup.py fix_manifest Did you use 0.82 when doing ./setup.py dist_source? The dist_source command uses git-ls-files to get the files it will package into the tarball. So only files that are in git will get into the source tarball. The dist_xo command uses the manifest as a source to determine the files present. Only files in the manifest will be present in the bundle. There was an error in the activitybundle code in 0.82 that tried to read the manifest as well in the source case - which is not needed. Hence, the warnings you saw about the incorrect manifest should not be seen when packaging the sources. This is fixed in recent code. Hope to have explained a bit the possible story around this error. > 3. ./setup.py dist_source > > 4. I asked a crank sysadmin to add me to the Sugar group, > And I moved Pippy-30.tar.bz2 to: > http://dev.laptop.org/pub/sugar/sources/Pippy/Pippy-30.tar.bz2 (805K) The exact release process for the Sucrose release is described here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release#Fructose > I will move pippy over to git.sugarlabs.org as well. Instructions for that can be found at: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Git#Import_a_module_from_dev.laptop.org > Thanks, > Brian Thank you, Simon >> Wade, do you have maybe someone in mind? >> >> Cheers, >> Simon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 27 07:10:44 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:10:44 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] addons.mozilla.org - what needs to be done? In-Reply-To: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> References: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> Message-ID: <242851610901270410r6693f2c7wc33c9ca479d5dccb@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mel, I'm very happy to know that you want to put your capable hands on this. Have started this page here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Remora_port Please ask Bernie to setup the environment needed to hack on a.s.o and tell me what else I can help with. Regards, Tomeu On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 13:23, Mel Chua wrote: > (ccing the dev list at Wade's request) > > Hiya, Tomeu - > > Wade said I should ask you what infrastructure work needs to be done to get > addons.mozilla.org up and running. Could you point me towards > logins/servers/existing work/trac tickets and help me get started? > > This afternoon was the first I'd heard about us using addons.mozilla.org, > and it gets a huge +1 from me - I'd like to be able to use it for > reviews/comments/tags during Activity testing at the Wellington testers > meetup next Saturday, so let me know what I have to do to get it up before > then. > > Thanks! > > --Mel > > ---- excerpted IRC log, for backstory ---- > > cjb: is the idea to use the framework for addons.mozilla.org for > sugar activities > yes, exactly > so, it's mainly for delivering .xos to laptops, as our > wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities does now > there are two different faces to each activity, the user face and > the developer face > addons.sl.o is the user facing portal > ie reviews of activities, comments, tags, hosting of .xo files > gitorious and w.sl.o/ActivityTeam/ is the developer facing > so, if we create per-activity wiki pages they're gonna be > developer focused > still, right now I'm down on per-activity anything as things tend > to get lost > wadeb|w: so if there's any infrastructure work that I can do to help > that have a place to go next weekend, I would love to > we just need someone to find the time to finish it > wadeb|w: I have time, not sure if I have know-how. how can i find > out? > mchua: yeah, I'm pondering the best way to organize the data > mchua: it's just some python-based webserver hacking afaik. > wadeb|w: ...that does sound like something I could do > wadeb|w: i've got to pop out for a bit, conf lunchtime - it sounds > like we need the infrastucture up before we can do any of the per-activity > data migration, and that addons.sl.org is the infrastructure that needs to > go up, and so my first task should be to get that up? > mchua: ok, ping tomeu for information on what needs to be done > mchua: sounds like a plan > mchua: it's our #1 activity infrastructure need right now > > From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 27 08:17:36 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:17:36 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] squeak in debian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090127131736.GA4596@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 02:48:20AM +1800, David Farning wrote: >Is it squeak and etoys that we are missing from debian? > >They now seem to be available in lenny. > >http://packages.debian.org/lenny/etoys >http://packages.debian.org/lenny/squeak-vm From a Sugar point of view those are "libraries" (so is not even listed as part of "Sucrose"). The actual sugarized wrapper for Etoys is not yet packaged. Another library which is not yet packaged for Debian is libabiword. From a Debian point of view, the following packaged are missing: libabiword-dev sugar-etoys-activity sugar-write-activity sugar-terminal-activity sugar-log-activity - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl/CXAACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhG/wCfSuccD+QRuByq+GLY9QY4E1Dn x1UAni4BKCiTecEUmq3ymc/E7+0fKtt2 =bksZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 09:48:56 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:48:56 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] addons.mozilla.org - what needs to be done? In-Reply-To: <242851610901270410r6693f2c7wc33c9ca479d5dccb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> <242851610901270410r6693f2c7wc33c9ca479d5dccb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901270648i568563calc6f511f09d602904@mail.gmail.com> Awesome, thanks for the straightforward list of tasks Tomeu. Perhaps next Saturday the site will be strong enough that the Wellington testers can do some testing on *it* as well :) Cheers, Wade On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:10 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi Mel, > > I'm very happy to know that you want to put your capable hands on this. > > Have started this page here: > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Remora_port > > Please ask Bernie to setup the environment needed to hack on a.s.o and > tell me what else I can help with. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 13:23, Mel Chua wrote: > > (ccing the dev list at Wade's request) > > > > Hiya, Tomeu - > > > > Wade said I should ask you what infrastructure work needs to be done to > get > > addons.mozilla.org up and running. Could you point me towards > > logins/servers/existing work/trac tickets and help me get started? > > > > This afternoon was the first I'd heard about us using addons.mozilla.org > , > > and it gets a huge +1 from me - I'd like to be able to use it for > > reviews/comments/tags during Activity testing at the Wellington testers > > meetup next Saturday, so let me know what I have to do to get it up > before > > then. > > > > Thanks! > > > > --Mel > > > > ---- excerpted IRC log, for backstory ---- > > > > cjb: is the idea to use the framework for addons.mozilla.org for > > sugar activities > > yes, exactly > > so, it's mainly for delivering .xos to laptops, as our > > wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities does now > > there are two different faces to each activity, the user face > and > > the developer face > > addons.sl.o is the user facing portal > > ie reviews of activities, comments, tags, hosting of .xo files > > gitorious and w.sl.o/ActivityTeam/ is the developer facing > > so, if we create per-activity wiki pages they're gonna be > > developer focused > > still, right now I'm down on per-activity anything as things > tend > > to get lost > > wadeb|w: so if there's any infrastructure work that I can do to > help > > that have a place to go next weekend, I would love to > > we just need someone to find the time to finish it > > wadeb|w: I have time, not sure if I have know-how. how can i find > > out? > > mchua: yeah, I'm pondering the best way to organize the data > > mchua: it's just some python-based webserver hacking afaik. > > wadeb|w: ...that does sound like something I could do > > wadeb|w: i've got to pop out for a bit, conf lunchtime - it > sounds > > like we need the infrastucture up before we can do any of the > per-activity > > data migration, and that addons.sl.org is the infrastructure that needs > to > > go up, and so my first task should be to get that up? > > mchua: ok, ping tomeu for information on what needs to be done > > mchua: sounds like a plan > > mchua: it's our #1 activity infrastructure need right now > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/77a0fdfc/attachment-0001.htm From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 27 09:51:20 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:51:20 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] squeak in debian In-Reply-To: <20090127131736.GA4596@jones.dk> References: <20090127131736.GA4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 02:48:20AM +1800, David Farning wrote: >>Is it squeak and etoys that we are missing from debian? >> >>They now seem to be available in lenny. >> >>http://packages.debian.org/lenny/etoys >>http://packages.debian.org/lenny/squeak-vm > > From a Sugar point of view those are "libraries" (so is not even listed > as part of "Sucrose"). > > The actual sugarized wrapper for Etoys is not yet packaged. > > Another library which is not yet packaged for Debian is libabiword. > > From a Debian point of view, the following packaged are missing: What areas would you like outside help on? > libabiword-dev I have talked with with the debain build team. They agreed to build abiword as a lib... for the next release. Luke followed up with issues report on debian bug tracker. What next? > sugar-etoys-activity Should I continue pushing for inclusion of etoys into main? In theory, all of the issues are resolved. Should I wait until after the release to bring up the issue? > sugar-write-activity ?? > sugar-terminal-activity ?? > sugar-log-activity ?? Things are not yet perfect. But, we are in a _much_ better position then we were this time last release! david > > > > - Jonas > > - -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkl/CXAACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhG/wCfSuccD+QRuByq+GLY9QY4E1Dn > x1UAni4BKCiTecEUmq3ymc/E7+0fKtt2 > =bksZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From luke at laptop.org Tue Jan 27 10:09:28 2009 From: luke at laptop.org (Luke Faraone) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:09:28 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] squeak in debian In-Reply-To: References: <20090127131736.GA4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: <0DE5F1DE-3E26-4769-AC10-D5C8CCBFCF1C@faraone.cc> On Jan 27, 2009, at 9:51, David Farning wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 02:48:20AM +1800, David Farning wrote: >>> Is it squeak and etoys that we are missing from debian? >>> >>> They now seem to be available in lenny. >>> >>> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/etoys >>> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/squeak-vm >> >> From a Sugar point of view those are "libraries" (so is not even >> listed >> as part of "Sucrose"). >> >> The actual sugarized wrapper for Etoys is not yet packaged. >> >> Another library which is not yet packaged for Debian is libabiword. >> >> From a Debian point of view, the following packaged are missing: > > What areas would you like outside help on? > >> libabiword-dev > > I have talked with with the debain build team. They agreed to build > abiword as a lib... for the next release. Luke followed up with > issues report on debian bug tracker. What next? > >> sugar-etoys-activity > > Should I continue pushing for inclusion of etoys into main? In > theory, all of the issues are resolved. Should I wait until after the > release to bring up the issue? > >> sugar-write-activity Depends on lib- and py- abiword. >> sugar-terminal-activity > > ?? > >> sugar-log-activity > > ?? Both just need packaging. I'll probaby be able to handle one or two, and will file the ITPs. > Things are not yet perfect. But, we are in a _much_ better position > then we were this time last release! > Yes, sugar not even being in Debian at all :) -lf > david >> >> - Jonas >> >> >> >> From dr at jones.dk Tue Jan 27 11:40:23 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:40:23 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] squeak in debian In-Reply-To: References: <20090127131736.GA4596@jones.dk> Message-ID: <20090127164023.GJ4596@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 08:51:20AM +1800, David Farning wrote: >On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 02:48:20AM +1800, David Farning wrote: >>>Is it squeak and etoys that we are missing from debian? >>> >>>They now seem to be available in lenny. >>> >>>http://packages.debian.org/lenny/etoys >>>http://packages.debian.org/lenny/squeak-vm >> >> From a Sugar point of view those are "libraries" (so is not even listed >> as part of "Sucrose"). >> >> The actual sugarized wrapper for Etoys is not yet packaged. >> >> Another library which is not yet packaged for Debian is libabiword. >> >> From a Debian point of view, the following packaged are missing: > >What areas would you like outside help on? Ideally: none! Or differently phrased: Please join the deb-based-but-cross-distro packaging team at Alioth by subscribing to http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/debian-olpc-devel and post questions like this one there. Your questions are great. Would be even greater if they were brought up among all those involved with the actual work (of distro packaging!), and only summarised here - instead of the opposite. [detailed qustions skipped - please repost at the Alioth list or repost if you _really_ want them discussed in detail here rather than there!] >Things are not yet perfect. But, we are in a _much_ better position >then we were this time last release! True: Debian *package* repeases (to unstable branch of Debian *distro* development) much closer matches newest *package* releases from Sugarlabs. ...which means Debian *derivatives* (like Ubuntu) have an easier time than ever to create releases matching Sugarlabs releases. Do not expect any Debian *distro* release to match Sugarlabs releases. It will be even easier for derivatives in the future, because the packaging for Debian is intended to get even more complex - supporting multiple concurrent versions of Sugar parts. Imagine having the following packages in the future: sugar0.82-datastore (conflicting with other "datastore" packages) sugar0.84-datastore (conflicting with other "datastore" packages) ... sugar-0.82 (depending on all of Sucrose 0.82) sugar-0.84 (depending on all of Sucrose 0.84) Then derivatives can pick the parts they want, and Debian users can install the environment they want. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkl/OPcACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgwQwCgl39kz/YMZVUDqJP5COM69iIJ sv4AoJlilkVzCNordXX/kJxBxfaXxGUU =e/2b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From korakurider at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 12:09:41 2009 From: korakurider at gmail.com (Korakurider) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:09:41 +0900 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Localization] [Announce] String freeze in effect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75eb0b0e0901270909w403c77f9i19aac028625cd8c2@mail.gmail.com> Hi. While string freeze was declared, some POT has not been updated on Pootle yet. For examples, we can't translate "About my computer" or "logout" for sugar. Could you take a look into this? (Sayamindu, are you still the guy to ask about this?) I think owners of module who moved source repo to sugarlabs might want to check if the integration to pootle is working now. Thanks, /Korakurider On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:07 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > Hello, > > As some of you may have already noticed, string freeze for the > upcoming release of Sugar 0.84 is now in effect. String freeze means > that any changes/additions made to the strings of the modules Glucose > or Fructose needs approval from the localization mailing list. This > however _does not_ mean that translators cannot submit their > translations. On the contrary, this marks the beginning of the period > when translators can be most active in the Glucose and Fructose > projects, since the potential number of changes in the strings from > now on is going to be minimal. Feel free to ask if there are any > doubts/questions. > Thank you, and happy translating :-) > Sayamindu > > > -- > Sayamindu Dasgupta > [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] > _______________________________________________ > Localization mailing list > Localization at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization > From erikb at mediamods.com Tue Jan 27 13:52:05 2009 From: erikb at mediamods.com (Erik Blankinship) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:52:05 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] thoughts on embedding web activities Message-ID: I've some follow up thoughts and questions after reading this post from Tomeu regarding how to best empower web developers and embed gnash/flash. http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2009/01/embedding-mozilla.html - What is the best implementation and interface for javascript to talk to activity subclasses? - In the past I have created web server instances within my activities. One of the main benefits of this approach was that javascript authors could work in a way familiar to them (ajax calls, comet calls, etc. that talk to a server). The hope was to take advantage of as many existing javascript libraries as possible. - Others approaches? Benefits? Drawbacks? - Regardless of implementation, what would a standard interface from javascript to activity look like? Function-call and primitives as variables? What would this API need? - Regarding embedding gnash/flash, I would advocate javascript as the pathway from as2/as3 calls to the activity so that the javascript serves as a foundation for other plugins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/b6666627/attachment.htm From sayamindu at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 14:02:25 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:32:25 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Localization] [Announce] String freeze in effect In-Reply-To: <75eb0b0e0901270909w403c77f9i19aac028625cd8c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <75eb0b0e0901270909w403c77f9i19aac028625cd8c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Korakurider wrote: > Hi. > While string freeze was declared, some POT has not been updated on Pootle yet. > For examples, we can't translate "About my computer" or "logout" for sugar. > Could you take a look into this? (Sayamindu, are you still the guy to > ask about this?) > Ugh. Fixed now (and we have a huge number of new strings.. for everyone). I'm still around, so feel free to poke me anytime. Cheers, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From luke at faraone.cc Tue Jan 27 14:45:54 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:45:54 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Currently the sugar shell package is named "sugar", http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/. Bernie, Marco, Morgs, and I were talking about it on IRC recently, and Morgan expressed concern that, to users, there might be confusion between the "sugar desktop" (sucrose), and that of the shell/glucose. As far as the API is concerned, the shell is imported as jarabe, which means *syrup* in Spanish. (single words are more convinent for python packages, I've been told) In order to reduce confusion, we should, IMHO, change the name of the "sugar" package to either "jarabe" (which would be sugar-jarabe in most distros) or "sugar-shell" (which, oddly enough, is also a meaningful phrase). -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/94acfd51/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 15:01:35 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:01:35 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901271201k523e13ffmc3473bf6c007caf2@mail.gmail.com> I for one will have a much easier time remembering what sugar-shell means, versus sugar-jarabe. Personally I can't stand all these meaningless names, I currently have to go look at the glossary each time I need to know which version of Sugar has the activities. At work I have often found that confusingly named packages tend to get adopted less easily than the sensibly named ones. -Wade On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > Hi all, > > Currently the sugar shell package is named "sugar", > http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/. Bernie, Marco, Morgs, and I were > talking about it on IRC recently, and Morgan expressed concern that, to > users, there might be confusion between the "sugar desktop" (sucrose), and > that of the shell/glucose. > > As far as the API is concerned, the shell is imported as jarabe, > which means *syrup* in Spanish. (single words are more convinent for > python packages, I've been told) > > In order to reduce confusion, we should, IMHO, change the name of the > "sugar" package to either "jarabe" (which would be sugar-jarabe in most > distros) or "sugar-shell" (which, oddly enough, is also a meaningful > phrase ). > > -- > Luke Faraone > http://luke.faraone.cc > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/5b6f80f1/attachment.htm From luke at faraone.cc Tue Jan 27 15:20:42 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:20:42 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901271201k523e13ffmc3473bf6c007caf2@mail.gmail.com> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901271201k523e13ffmc3473bf6c007caf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901271220x66e4ee5dib5914004cedbdfe8@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > I for one will have a much easier time remembering what sugar-shell means, > versus sugar-jarabe. > Personally I can't stand all these meaningless names, I currently have to > go look at the glossary each time I need to know which version of Sugar has > the activities. > > At work I have often found that confusingly named packages tend to get > adopted less easily than the sensibly named ones. > Understandable. What I was planning to do (I've yet to consult with the other maintainers on this) was to have "sugar" be a virtual package provided by "sugar-sucrose", so all you'd need to do would be to "apt-get install sugar" to get a fully-functioning sugar environment. It should be trivial to rename sugar to sugar-shell in Debian. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/b33218ed/attachment.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 15:34:27 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:34:27 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901271220x66e4ee5dib5914004cedbdfe8@mail.gmail.com> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901271201k523e13ffmc3473bf6c007caf2@mail.gmail.com> <2eaf0c620901271220x66e4ee5dib5914004cedbdfe8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901271234m4f2792nb536ffd49e0a9a3d@mail.gmail.com> That sounds good to me. I realize the whole sucrose / fructose / starch thing has become a consensus but to me, not really knowing the scientific relationships between those words, they might as well have been named sugar-layer-0, sugar-layer-1, etc. Cheers, Wade On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > >> I for one will have a much easier time remembering what sugar-shell means, >> versus sugar-jarabe. >> Personally I can't stand all these meaningless names, I currently have to >> go look at the glossary each time I need to know which version of Sugar has >> the activities. >> >> At work I have often found that confusingly named packages tend to get >> adopted less easily than the sensibly named ones. >> > > Understandable. > > What I was planning to do (I've yet to consult with the other maintainers > on this) was to have "sugar" be a virtual package provided by > "sugar-sucrose", so all you'd need to do would be to "apt-get install sugar" > to get a fully-functioning sugar environment. It should be trivial to rename > sugar to sugar-shell in Debian. > > > -- > Luke Faraone > http://luke.faraone.cc > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/8b7d12ac/attachment.htm From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Tue Jan 27 18:00:31 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:00:31 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas snapshot Message-ID: You can download the iso here: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso Instructions on how to install it are here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick I also made an experimental image for the XO. It's not signed, so you will need security disabled, if you want to try it. http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/soas1.img http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/soas1.crc Marco From gary at garycmartin.com Tue Jan 27 18:28:32 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:28:32 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Marco, On 27 Jan 2009, at 23:00, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > You can download the iso here: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso > > Instructions on how to install it are here: > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick > > I also made an experimental image for the XO. It's not signed, so you > will need security disabled, if you want to try it. > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/soas1.img > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/xoimages/soas1.crc Cool. Any tips as to what to do with these 2 on an XO? The only thing I've done with .img and .crc before is copy-nand from firmware ? is it possible to run them from a usb stick without wiping nand or effecting the existing nand install (so we can encourage safe(er) testing of new code)? Regards, --Gary > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel From wadetb at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 18:49:50 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:49:50 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Report from the field (graz,Austria#1) In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901271513y32fbcc8coac4c11c53ece1d5a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cc423ef0901271513y32fbcc8coac4c11c53ece1d5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901271549n449d92aidcc7364e8f8be800@mail.gmail.com> Hey David, Thanks for the excellent report - it's always great to hear feedback from real teachers. On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:13 PM, David Van Assche wrote: > Flipsticks activtiy > The first activity that was questioned was flipsticks, which was seen as a > great tool for younger kids, but lacking collaborative abilities. An > idea which was brought up was splitting the flipsticks work into user > groups, and have the groups then combine their animations to create a > bigger final animation. The reasoning behind this was that often there > is not much time in a class, and to have every student to their little > bit, and then combine it all is much more efficient, and a lesson in > collaboration at the same time. The MaMaMedia activities are quite solid, but have not changed in quite some time. We should see if we can get their developers to come back and add collaboration support. I'd like to see some simple IK in Flipsticks, to make moving the joints around faster. Geoquiz and other visual quiz activities > Another suggestion that came after showing Geoquiz was the > development of some sort of authoring tool for this kind of activity, > which generally involves showing images and asking questions. This > could then be applied for many localised activities. In the case of > Austria, for example, children of a younger age learn about Austria > itself, in a geographical sense, but not too much about the rest of > the planet until they are older. The Geoquiz activity as it stands was > criticised for not telling a user when an answer is correct or wrong, > for not having good controls, and for having unchangable content. The > other option that would be a requirement for these kind of activities > is a score card or report that the teacher could somehow store and > print, based on children collaborating on quiz type activities. One of the most common activity requests is a general purpose collaborative Quiz activity. The ActivityTeam will try to meet this need in the near future, for now I'm adding it to our TODO list. Main subject matter requested as simple activities with lesson plans > > The main subjects that were requested were German (first language) and > Mathematics, which seems to coincide with the requirements of other > deployments like the Nepali deployment. In terms of mathematics, these > activites should be as simple as possible, for example, the > multiplication/division/adding/subtraction tables done in such a way > that the teacher could choose which numbers were to be selected and > practiced on any given day and by any given student. It should also, > then, be possible to pair up students collaboratively to answer these, > and once again, at the end of the session, collect the answers in a > score card or report, that could be saved or printed by the teacher. Math and Language teaching activities are another high priority need. There are some projects out there that address them, but I'm not sure what state they are all in. Do you have a sense of what exactly the teachers were hoping for? > Typing tutor or spelling activities > In a similar vein, some kind of activity for practicing spelling > should be implemented and monitored in the same way as a maths apps... > A general request for all activities was the ability to have an admin > view/session that the teacher could use to follow scores, assignment > of individual objects of a particular activity and their layout, and > the users themselves. This would be something like a monitoring tool. I've been working on a Typing Tutor for the past few months, it's called Typing Turtle. I hope to have a first general release in the next month or so. http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/TypingTurtle-6.xo (check the folder for updates in the future) Simple UI and Simple app rules > It was emphasised that the simplicity of applications is extremely > important for younger children, and that many ported apps are just too > cluttered to be useful in any way. They were very happy with the > simplicty and usability of sugar itself, but were disappointed with > many of the apps, which either ignored design conventions or were > simply ports of already complex and badly layed out activities. Agreed generally, but specific comments that can be forwarded to individual activity developers are very helpful. > Collaborative typing tool with speed recognition > Another example of an application they wanted to see was a simple > typing activity which would involve the teacher typing an example > text, and then the kids trying to type the same phrase as quickly as > possible with the times to completion and error/rate being calculated > for each child, and then reported to a score card or report followed > by saving of this or printing out. This kind of Typing Race will hopefully become an aspect of Typing Turtle in the future. In the meantime, we should check with Daniel Drake about the status of his KeyDemon activity. > Gcompris is a hit, but needs the admin tool > While we focused on presenting gcompris as a great tool for younger > children with hundreds of mini apps, it was asked if one could > seperate these mini apps into layouts for particular groups of > students, or individual students, and again have a central admin part > to keep track of what children are working on and even suggest a > progression plan (activities to be worked through and scores for those > activities to be achieved.) G compris already has an admin part and > this should be included within sugar, as it seems to be a vital > component to get it to be anything more than a fun experimental game. Does anyone know why the Admin component is not part of Sugar? I haven't been involved with the Gcompris activity development to date. > The simplest app wins (speak) > The app they found most to their liking due to its simplicity and the > fun surrounding it was the speak application. The criticism was that > speak should really be having the letters sound like they do in words. > For example, 'M' should be pronounced mmmm and not emmm. This would > require the fixing of only the sound bytes of single characters. Nice to hear! Guess we need more creative, simple activities like that one. > Meshed collaboration extremely shaky, especially with more than 6 > users. > There was some skepticism as to how well collaboration would work as > we seemed unable to get it to work well due to multiple wireless > signals. A server was suggested by us to overcome this and other > issues (storing of lesson plans for the activities in moodle, backups > to prevent local storage problems, ejabberd for collaboration between > xos and non-xos.) What build / hardware were you testing on out of curiousity? The only thing I can say is hopefully the new firmware in 8.2.1 will have some effect. > Sugar on a stick, sugar on Ubuntu not Ready > Finally, it was concluded by us after presenting sugar on a stick with > the very latest binaries and packages, that, at least on ubuntu, sugar > is not ready for even experimental use, as more than 50% of the apps > do not work, and networking seems to be broken too. SoaS is still in very early days it seems. Information about which activites break and how should be posted to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus if you have time to do so. Thanks again for the data. Keep sending feedback! Best, Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/ee3bf5ee/attachment.htm From cjstuij at gmail.com Tue Jan 27 22:54:59 2009 From: cjstuij at gmail.com (Ties Stuij) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:39:59 +0545 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Report from the field (graz,Austria#1) In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901271549n449d92aidcc7364e8f8be800@mail.gmail.com> References: <8cc423ef0901271513y32fbcc8coac4c11c53ece1d5a@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901271549n449d92aidcc7364e8f8be800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:34 AM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hey David, > Thanks for the excellent report - it's always great to hear feedback from > real teachers. > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:13 PM, David Van Assche > wrote: >> Typing tutor or spelling activities >> In a similar vein, some kind of activity for practicing spelling >> should be implemented and monitored in the same way as a maths apps... >> A general request for all activities was the ability to have an admin >> view/session that the teacher could use to follow scores, assignment >> of individual objects of a particular activity and their layout, and >> the users themselves. This would be something like a monitoring tool. > > I've been working on a Typing Tutor for the past few months, it's called > Typing Turtle. I hope to have a first general release in the next month or > so. > http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/TypingTurtle-6.xo (check the folder for updates > in the future) Yea, try out Wade''s tutor, it's pretty cool, and advancing rapidly. I'm a bit of a fan. Comes with lesson builder, is easily translatable, and the initial balloon practice game is awesome. /Ties From bernie at codewiz.org Wed Jan 28 04:00:51 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:00:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> Luke Faraone wrote: > In order to reduce confusion, we should, IMHO, change the name of the > "sugar" package to either "jarabe" (which would be sugar-jarabe in most > distros) or "sugar-shell" (which, oddly enough, is also a meaningful > phrase ). I made the same proposal on the marketing list. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From morgan.collett at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 04:08:11 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:08:11 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:00, Bernie Innocenti wrote: > Luke Faraone wrote: >> In order to reduce confusion, we should, IMHO, change the name of the >> "sugar" package to either "jarabe" (which would be sugar-jarabe in most >> distros) or "sugar-shell" (which, oddly enough, is also a meaningful >> phrase ). > > I made the same proposal on the marketing list. Just want to mention, as far as packaging names go, the debian binary package names for the following components are: * sugar-base: python-sugar * sugar-toolkit: python-sugar-toolkit * sugar-datastore: python-olpc-datastore (which should be renamed python-sugar-datastore) I vote for sugar-shell as the component name, because the distros should be able to keep that name, and it's more obvious what the component does. Regards Morgan From bernie at codewiz.org Wed Jan 28 04:34:28 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:34:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <498026A4.3090909@codewiz.org> Morgan Collett wrote: > I vote for sugar-shell as the component name, because the distros > should be able to keep that name, and it's more obvious what the > component does. +1 from me too, but let's wait until after 0.84 is released, we already had enough destabilizing changes in this release cycle with all the repository migrations to Sugar Labs and shuffling maintainers. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 28 05:31:39 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:31:39 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.83.4 Development Release In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901251828r76ca030cn6bd9c26e2be398d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4977694C.5080703@schampijer.de> <46a038f90901230656l28320937m47661660483e24fd@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230704g5cbf47e9j422f6743adc57a2a@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230717k7bcc65f3o4bcc80f1c1c18189@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901230722y2b732c4ar2cae11720e703ddd@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901230742y9a26363oda7e49f18adb6bc0@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901250334u741254c4u41dd307ece55b0f5@mail.gmail.com> <46a038f90901251828r76ca030cn6bd9c26e2be398d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901280231q46c4dd1fl19f2e90af8e5337a@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 03:28, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> You got distracted with shiny stuff! > > Rickrolled indeed :-) > >>> Is it possible for you to add a single file that says the "journal >>> storage" version at the root of it? Something like >>> >>> $ cat .sugar/default/datastore/store/format >>> 2 >> >> We actually had it already, have updated the wiki page with info about it. >> >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/DatastoreRewrite > > Excellent news. Looks good (as described in the wikipage), so the > older datastores, having no 'version' file, are a nominal '0'. Yup. >> Sounds good, I guess you can do the reorg with hard links in the same >> script where we had the metadata exported to json. > > Exactly - guess what the client would have done, build an appropriate > hardlink tree, and then let rsync add/remove as appropriate. Avoids > transferring the actual data files which may be large. Sounds good. Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 28 05:44:37 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:44:37 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> References: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901280244k6f3d3b85v5d037d6772c8d1d8@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 03:50, Martin Langhoff wrote: > The Wellington Testers team has been asking me for an intro to > programming Sugar. So far, my strategy was to flee the country, but > that trick's getting old... > > So I've been wondering - what materials would you suggest for a > "fast-track into Sugar development" workshop. I am thinking of 2 > half-day sessions, one focused on the Sugar stack and the second one > on activity creation. What about starting with 1 hour presentation on what Sugar is, why some things are different from other desktops and a general introduction to what activities are, the journal, collaboration model, etc. Then spend some hours going through a basic Hello World activity, then put people to work in groups or separate on their starter activities? Also, I think that these sessions would be much more productive if attendants could have gone through the pygtk tutorial before, sections 1-6 + 10: http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html > The welly testers get together once a week, for > ~4hs -- so that limits the format in this case. I think that's pretty good. > I won't be the best guy to deliver it, but I'll try. I understand the > XO stack fairly well, but I'm not a Sugar dev, so patchy in some > areas. Everybody can be a Sugar dev! :p > There's an active python UG in Welly, so maybe they want to be part of it too. That sounds worth trying. > Outcomes > ? more devs knowing Sugar stack and activities ==> more patches, more > activities? > ? more expert testers... > ? resulting materials and sliderware > ? video of the session - also freely licensed Yeah, something like this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Thanks a lot for pushing for it yourself. > Now that I think of it, it'd be great to do it in Spanish, and > circulate it in Uy. Sadly, I don't have a spanish-speaking audience in > Welly. Yeah, maybe after you share your experiences other people can replicate in their countries? Thanks again, Tomeu From dr at jones.dk Wed Jan 28 07:54:06 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:54:06 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <20090128125406.GE7162@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:08:11AM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: >On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:00, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >> Luke Faraone wrote: >>> In order to reduce confusion, we should, IMHO, change the name of >>> the "sugar" package to either "jarabe" (which would be sugar-jarabe >>> in most distros) or "sugar-shell" (which, oddly enough, is also a >>> meaningful phrase ). >> >> I made the same proposal on the marketing list. > >Just want to mention, as far as packaging names go, the debian binary >package names for the following components are: >* sugar-base: python-sugar >* sugar-toolkit: python-sugar-toolkit >* sugar-datastore: python-olpc-datastore (which should be renamed >python-sugar-datastore) I have seen this claim before (from you?). Why do you believe that the name should be different? Current name reflects naming of the Python module it contains, to follow Debian Python Policy. >I vote for sugar-shell as the component name, because the distros >should be able to keep that name, and it's more obvious what the >component does. According to Debian Perl Policy, the binary package for the part of the upstream "sugar" package that contains jarabe should be named "python-jarabe". Other parts of same source package could possibly either be stuffed into same binary package package or into its own, named either "sugar" as now, or sugar-shell or sugar-jarabe reflecting an eventual upstream rename of same package (else I see no reason to change name for Debian). - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmAVW4ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLhU/gCfWAyp2/L6RwYo8W2FWsJR3RU1 ZRQAoJfp9AINA9vbFDpdm3MLLc3qpFJV =LwRe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dsd at laptop.org Wed Jan 28 07:58:23 2009 From: dsd at laptop.org (Daniel Drake) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:58:23 -0300 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <818423da0901280458w4b668f5cv400e85f1da1a2ed0@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/27 Gary C Martin : > Any tips as to what to do with these 2 on an XO? The only thing I've > done with .img and .crc before is copy-nand from firmware ? is it > possible to run them from a usb stick without wiping nand or effecting > the existing nand install (so we can encourage safe(er) testing of new > code)? You can copy-nand to get them on NAND. Or you can use the USB stick process described here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick (please let us know if it works on XO!!) Daniel From bernie at codewiz.org Wed Jan 28 08:24:16 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:24:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <20090128125406.GE7162@jones.dk> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> <20090128125406.GE7162@jones.dk> Message-ID: <49805C80.7070103@codewiz.org> Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:08:11AM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: >> Just want to mention, as far as packaging names go, the debian binary >> package names for the following components are: >> * sugar-base: python-sugar >> * sugar-toolkit: python-sugar-toolkit >> * sugar-datastore: python-olpc-datastore (which should be renamed >> python-sugar-datastore) > > I have seen this claim before (from you?). Why do you believe that the > name should be different? Current name reflects naming of the Python > module it contains, to follow Debian Python Policy. Where did Morgan say that "python-" should be taken off? The change he prposes is s/olpc/sugar/, which I can hardly imagine as a violation of any Debian Uppercase Policy. >> I vote for sugar-shell as the component name, because the distros >> should be able to keep that name, and it's more obvious what the >> component does. > > According to Debian Perl Policy, the binary package for the part of the > upstream "sugar" package that contains jarabe should be named > "python-jarabe". I think the proposal was to rename the *upstream* module called just "sugar" to "sugar-shell". At least, this is what was discussed on #sugar. > Other parts of same source package could possibly either be stuffed into > same binary package package or into its own, named either "sugar" as > now, or sugar-shell or sugar-jarabe reflecting an eventual upstream > rename of same package (else I see no reason to change name for Debian). Afaik, jarabe has not been shipped as an independent module and there are no plans to do so. Or does that mean that you have to split it out to a separate package in order to comply with this D.P.P.? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From tony_anderson at usa.net Wed Jan 28 10:24:16 2009 From: tony_anderson at usa.net (Tony Anderson) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:24:16 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Image Quiz Activity Message-ID: <498078A0.2070603@usa.net> Wade, I am working on additions to Image Quiz to add the features mentioned here. The primary goal is to provide a picture recognition capability for learning vocabulary (the user is presented with four pictures and hears an audio prompt, then clicks on the correct picture). The capability to present flashcards (text, image, or audio prompt, text response) is also included. One of the other goals was to provide a way for the user to create his own questions. Collections of questions (called categories in Image Quiz) may be downloaded from the schoolserver. They are stored locally in an Sqllite database (images and sounds in the 'data' folder). Progress is slow because of other commitments. However, I should have a reasonable first release ready by the time I leave for Nepal (Feb. 22). Tony One of the most common activity requests is a general purpose collaborative Quiz activity. The ActivityTeam will try to meet this need in the near future, for now I'm adding it to our TODO list. Main subject matter requested as simple activities with lesson plans > > > > The main subjects that were requested were German (first language) and > > Mathematics, which seems to coincide with the requirements of other > > deployments like the Nepali deployment. In terms of mathematics, these > > activites should be as simple as possible, for example, the > > multiplication/division/adding/subtraction tables done in such a way > > that the teacher could choose which numbers were to be selected and > > practiced on any given day and by any given student. It should also, > > then, be possible to pair up students collaboratively to answer these, > > and once again, at the end of the session, collect the answers in a > > score card or report, that could be saved or printed by the teacher. From dr at jones.dk Wed Jan 28 10:42:21 2009 From: dr at jones.dk (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:42:21 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <49805C80.7070103@codewiz.org> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> <20090128125406.GE7162@jones.dk> <49805C80.7070103@codewiz.org> Message-ID: <20090128154221.GL7162@jones.dk> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:24:16PM +0100, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:08:11AM +0200, Morgan Collett wrote: >>> Just want to mention, as far as packaging names go, the debian >>> binary package names for the following components are: >>> * sugar-base: python-sugar >>> * sugar-toolkit: python-sugar-toolkit >>> * sugar-datastore: python-olpc-datastore (which should be renamed >>> python-sugar-datastore) >> >> I have seen this claim before (from you?). Why do you believe that >> the name should be different? Current name reflects naming of the >> Python module it contains, to follow Debian Python Policy. > >Where did Morgan say that "python-" should be taken off? Nowhere. Neither did I say so. >The change he prposes is s/olpc/sugar/, which I can hardly imagine as >a violation of any Debian Uppercase Policy. Indeed that was his proposal. I talk about a Python Policy, not an uppercase one: The (main) Python module currently contained in sugar-datastore is "olpc.datastore", not "sugar.datastore". It also contains another Python module "secore" that I until now have stuffed into that same binary package as the "olpc.datastore" one. >>> I vote for sugar-shell as the component name, because the distros >>> should be able to keep that name, and it's more obvious what the >>> component does. >> >> According to Debian Perl Policy, the binary package for the part of >> the upstream "sugar" package that contains jarabe should be named >> "python-jarabe". > >I think the proposal was to rename the *upstream* module called just >"sugar" to "sugar-shell". At least, this is what was discussed on >#sugar. You mean "sugar.shell" or you are not talking about Python module here? (seems you are talking about source package names, not Python modules). >> Other parts of same source package could possibly either be stuffed >> into same binary package package or into its own, named either >> "sugar" as now, or sugar-shell or sugar-jarabe reflecting an eventual >> upstream rename of same package (else I see no reason to change name >> for Debian). > >Afaik, jarabe has not been shipped as an independent module and there >are no plans to do so. > >Or does that mean that you have to split it out to a separate package >in order to comply with this D.P.P.? It means that _if_ I split it out as a Python library package (which has the benefit of then being smart about upgrades from one version of Python to another without needing any repackaging) then I must follow naming rules reflecting the contained Python module, disregarding the upstram source package name. - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmAfN0ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLjDcQCfRYOE7x6J84wgo77JiOh9cWXV FhwAoJe7NT2E3t+AOTuy8xxxZuxMREPL =PDWU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cyberorg at opensuse.org Wed Jan 28 10:43:08 2009 From: cyberorg at opensuse.org (Jigish Gohil) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:13:08 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.1, MOSTLY fixed In-Reply-To: <49807BED.9030203@walgreens.com> References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> <4979EF0D.40608@walgreens.com> <49807BED.9030203@walgreens.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:08 PM, James Simmons wrote: > Jigish, > > I did a new installation of openSUSE 11.1 on my PC. I deleted all the > existing partitions and started over, so absolutely nothing remains from the > previous upgrade. I ran your commands and it gave the same complaint about > sugar-activities, that it couldn't install etoys. I took option 1 to deal > that complaint and wound up with a working installation of Sugar with just a > Journal and no Activities. I tried installing just sugar-activities, got > the same complaint, and this time chose option 2, which ignores some missing > dependencies. This seemed to install some things, including abiword, but > when I tried to run sugar-emulation I still got Sugar with a Journal but no > Activities are visible. > Hit the top left corner of the screen, and select "Home" to make all the activities visible. > I haven't tried installing my own Activities yet. If that works then what I > have working should be of some use to me. I'd really like those other > Activities to be there, though. > > In your email you said *some* Activities don't work, and I assumed you meant > you were missing etoys. You're doing better than I am, so I have to wonder > what you're doing that I am not? > Only issue was with Browse, it could not find one lib, it is probably a matter of adding the library path in /etc/ld.so.conf, will sort that out soon. > Finally, I'd like to thank you and the others who tried to help me with > this! > Glad to be of help, ping me on IRC #sugar if you need any other assistance :) Cheers -J From simon at schampijer.de Wed Jan 28 12:12:03 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:12:03 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498091E3.5020807@schampijer.de> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > You can download the iso here: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso I have an issue to boot the stick on my desktop machine (ASUS A7V8X-X). It works fine on my T61 though. SYSLINUX 3.51 2007-06-10 EBIOS Copyright (C) 1994-2007 H. Peter Anvin Could not find kernel image: linux boot I tried if i could start the kernel directly with: boot: /syslinux/vmlinuz0 but it can not be found. Tried as well to specify the initrd but I always get the message that the kernel image can not be found. Found this thread but it does not really contain any solution for me https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ticket/58 I use as well Fat16 as claimed by a few in this thread. Anyhow, so the images work great in general! Maybe someone has an idea about this error :) Thanks, Simon From bernie at codewiz.org Sun Jan 25 04:28:53 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:28:53 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] OLPC Afghanistan first pilot school In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497C30D5.3030305@codewiz.org> Darah Tappitake wrote: > Thank you for sending this information, we look forward to the good news > that is sure to come from the Afghanistan deployment as it continues to > expand. Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I can do to > help. We also want to hear the bad news, if any :) What version of the XO builds is being deployed? With what base activities? The page says that the technical team will develop new activities. We would like to stay in contact with the developers on IRC and on the sugar-devel mailing list. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From martines at unimelb.edu.au Sun Jan 25 17:33:30 2009 From: martines at unimelb.edu.au (Martin Edmund Sevior) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:33:30 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha References: <496D740C.8070902__42168.2439664893$1231910089$gmane$org@fas.harvard.edu> <8cc423ef0901140442k5424db55sc4f035a1d53625dd@mail.gmail.com> <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E93@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> <496EBACA.4070908@fas.harvard.edu> <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931E95@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> <23e2e54b0901250026g3441ee67ibba9d9ed546072ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <09BE2893F0546D4C9246220668F81B1402931EA2@IS-EX-BEV2.unimelb.edu.au> Thanks for the link Bobby! Very interesting that they independently developed techniques similar to ours. We were first though :-) Cheers Martin -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Powers [mailto:bobbypowers at gmail.com] Sent: Sun 1/25/2009 7:26 PM To: Martin Edmund Sevior Cc: bens at alum.mit.edu; Sugar Devel; Chris Ball Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha I stumbled across this google tech talk today on the same subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Hp_1jqpY8 I haven't watched most of it yet, but thought others might be interested as well. bobby On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: > > Hi Benjamin, > Thanks very much! I'm very interested in looking at the source > code and data structures. > > These kind of problems are exactly what abicollab (as used by Write) solves. > > I have given some detailed presentations about this. You can find one here: > > (the ogg version) > > http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Wed/mel8-083.ogg > > (presentation odp) > > http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/slides/083-AbiCollab.odp > > and wiki write up: > > http://www.abisource.com/wiki/AbiCollab > > Maybe these ideas can help. > > Cheers! > > Martin > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org on behalf of Benjamin M. > Schwartz > Sent: Thu 1/15/2009 3:25 PM > To: Martin Edmund Sevior > Cc: bens at alum.mit.edu; Sugar Devel; Chris Ball > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Groupthink 0.1 pre-alpha > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: >> How do you solve "internet lag". >> >> User A puts a character "A" in position 10, then before user B see sees > this (because of the finite propagation time), he puts character "B" in > position 10? >> >> Who wins? You just have to make sure the the document remains the same > for both users. > > This is, indeed, the central problem. For the moment, the answer is: > Groupthink does not support full documents, only short snippets of text. > I have prototyped a data structure that I believe can coherently resolve > these sorts of edit conflicts in long documents without any negotiation, > but it remains to be seen if the design will work. > > In general, Groupthink's approach (described at length in docstrings in > the code) is to write each data structure in such a way that any two users > who have observed the same set of messages will arrive at the same state, > regardless of the order in which those messages are received. The hard > part is figuring out how to do this for each kind of data structure. > However, once it is working, the code can be reused for many purposes > without needing to understand how it works. > > - --Ben > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkluuskACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQb2QCfXnSJHwZpn6Q/OsDSs8nJEb3x > vWIAoIJYuSuEp8EFOeKynHDLctW2S5iq > =Po5R > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090126/a30b2e69/attachment.htm From brenda at coffee.geek.nz Mon Jan 26 14:26:45 2009 From: brenda at coffee.geek.nz (Brenda Wallace) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:26:45 +1300 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [olpc-nz] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? In-Reply-To: <3c866f940901260903q2f9a6454taa930a1a00aed0ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901260903q2f9a6454taa930a1a00aed0ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2E631F09-9D5E-49CB-BA15-711542863EAA@coffee.geek.nz> I've got a book on python for sugar somewhere. My memory of attempts was lotsa watching git darcs and svk pulls followed by days of watching builds and then a error. Then trying again the next day hoping it was fixed in trunk/head On 27/01/2009, at 6:03, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > We are planning a Documentation Jam in Uruguay for late February. I > think Wade's page is an excellent starting point but we want to do it > in Spanish and to write it from our own experience. Many of us started > almost from scratch and we want to reflect on the learning curve and > get to the essentials so new people can join in with less effort. > > We have very little experience with Sugar itself. We want to focus at > this stage on activities, so we plan to cover things like Python, > PyGtk, Cairo, Pango, Pygame, bundling, using git, using trac, using > pot files, collaboration, datastore, etc. > > If you have any new materials or comments, they would be much > apprecited. > > Regards, > > Gabriel > > 2009/1/26 Wade Brainerd : >> I've been doing my best to collect information on getting started >> here. >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources >> >> Note that it's focused on activity development. >> -Wade >> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Langhoff > > >> wrote: >>> >>> The Wellington Testers team has been asking me for an intro to >>> programming Sugar. So far, my strategy was to flee the country, but >>> that trick's getting old... >>> >>> So I've been wondering - what materials would you suggest for a >>> "fast-track into Sugar development" workshop. I am thinking of 2 >>> half-day sessions, one focused on the Sugar stack and the second one >>> on activity creation. The welly testers get together once a week, >>> for >>> ~4hs -- so that limits the format in this case. >>> >>> I won't be the best guy to deliver it, but I'll try. I understand >>> the >>> XO stack fairly well, but I'm not a Sugar dev, so patchy in some >>> areas. >>> >>> There's an active python UG in Welly, so maybe they want to be >>> part of it >>> too. >>> >>> Outcomes >>> ? more devs knowing Sugar stack and activities ==> more patches, >>> more >>> activities? >>> ? more expert testers... >>> ? resulting materials and sliderware >>> ? video of the session - also freely licensed >>> >>> Now that I think of it, it'd be great to do it in Spanish, and >>> circulate it in Uy. Sadly, I don't have a spanish-speaking >>> audience in >>> Welly. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> m >>> -- >>> martin.langhoff at gmail.com >>> martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect >>> - ask interesting questions >>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >>> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff >>> _______________________________________________ >>> olpc-nz mailing list >>> olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > _______________________________________________ > olpc-nz mailing list > olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz From jim.simmons at walgreens.com Tue Jan 27 10:19:39 2009 From: jim.simmons at walgreens.com (James Simmons) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:19:39 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.0 In-Reply-To: References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> Message-ID: <497F260B.5040506@walgreens.com> Jigish, I am convinced that my installation of openSUSE 11.1 is messed up and my best option is to do a fresh install rather than an upgrade. David Fanning had asked me to do a ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck and the only way I could run that was to do a git-clone of sugar-jhbuild first. When I tried to do that I got a message saying that git-clone was not found, yet YAST and rpm -V both said that git-core (which YAST showed as containing that command) was installed. The file was definitely missing though. I'm guessing that something similar is happening with python-telepathy. I also find that neither of the DVD burning apps that come with the distro can recognize my DVD burner, but I have no trouble mounting DVDs on it. 11.0 also had some odd problems that I thought upgrading to 11.1 had fixed, but apparently some problems remain. Tonight I'll do the clean install and run your zypper commands again and I'll let you know how it went. Thanks, James Simmons From jim.simmons at walgreens.com Tue Jan 27 10:25:33 2009 From: jim.simmons at walgreens.com (James Simmons) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:25:33 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.0 In-Reply-To: <242851610901240043n760bc63dy4e3f54e06d3869a@mail.gmail.com> References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> <242851610901240043n760bc63dy4e3f54e06d3869a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497F276D.4070309@walgreens.com> Tomeu, As I have described in a previous email, I think my openSUSE 11.1 upgrade is messed up. Several files seem to be missing even though YAST and rpm -V show the packages being installed. I plan to do a fresh install rather than an upgrade to see if that helps. I did run the command you asked to run last night. In case the results are still of interest, here they are: # installing zipimport hook import zipimport # builtin # installed zipimport hook # /usr/lib/python2.6/site.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py import site # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/site.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/os.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/os.py import os # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/os.pyc import errno # builtin import posix # builtin # /usr/lib/python2.6/posixpath.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/posixpath.py import posixpath # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/posixpath.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/stat.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/stat.py import stat # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/stat.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/genericpath.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/genericpath.py import genericpath # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/genericpath.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/warnings.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/warnings.py import warnings # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/warnings.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/linecache.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/linecache.py import linecache # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/linecache.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/types.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/types.py import types # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/types.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/UserDict.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/UserDict.py import UserDict # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/UserDict.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/_abcoll.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/_abcoll.py import _abcoll # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/_abcoll.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/abc.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/abc.py import abc # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/abc.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/copy_reg.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/copy_reg.py import copy_reg # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/copy_reg.pyc import encodings # directory /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings # /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/__init__.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/__init__.py import encodings # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/__init__.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/codecs.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/codecs.py import codecs # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/codecs.pyc import _codecs # builtin # /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/aliases.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/aliases.py import encodings.aliases # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/aliases.pyc # /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/utf_8.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/utf_8.py import encodings.utf_8 # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.6/encodings/utf_8.pyc Python 2.6 (r26:66714, Dec 3 2008, 06:05:48) [GCC 4.3.2 [gcc-4_3-branch revision 141291]] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ImportError: No module named telepathy # clear __builtin__._ # clear sys.path # clear sys.argv # clear sys.ps1 # clear sys.ps2 # clear sys.exitfunc # clear sys.exc_type # clear sys.exc_value # clear sys.exc_traceback # clear sys.last_type # clear sys.last_value # clear sys.last_traceback # clear sys.path_hooks # clear sys.path_importer_cache # clear sys.meta_path # clear sys.flags # clear sys.float_info # restore sys.stdin # restore sys.stdout # restore sys.stderr # cleanup __main__ # cleanup[1] encodings # cleanup[1] site # cleanup[1] abc # cleanup[1] _codecs # cleanup[1] _warnings # cleanup[1] zipimport # cleanup[1] encodings.utf_8 # cleanup[1] codecs # cleanup[1] signal # cleanup[1] posix # cleanup[1] encodings.aliases # cleanup[1] exceptions # cleanup[2] copy_reg # cleanup[2] posixpath # cleanup[2] errno # cleanup[2] _abcoll # cleanup[2] types # cleanup[2] genericpath # cleanup[2] stat # cleanup[2] warnings # cleanup[2] UserDict # cleanup[2] os.path # cleanup[2] linecache # cleanup[2] os # cleanup sys # cleanup __builtin__ # cleanup ints: 19 unfreed ints # cleanup floats Thanks, James Simmons Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Can you attach the output of: > > python -v -c 'import telepathy' > > Thanks, > > Tomeu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090127/a9a2476b/attachment-0001.htm From cyberorg at opensuse.org Tue Jan 27 23:12:32 2009 From: cyberorg at opensuse.org (Jigish Gohil) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:42:32 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.0 In-Reply-To: <497F260B.5040506@walgreens.com> References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <497F260B.5040506@walgreens.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:49 PM, James Simmons wrote: > Jigish, > > I am convinced that my installation of openSUSE 11.1 is messed up and my > best option is to do a fresh install rather than an upgrade. David Fanning > had asked me to do a ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck and the only way I could run > that was to do a git-clone of sugar-jhbuild first. When I tried to do that > I got a message saying that git-clone was not found, yet YAST and rpm -V > both said that git-core (which YAST showed as containing that command) was > installed. The file was definitely missing though. I'm guessing that No, new git uses "git clone" instead of "git-clone" > something similar is happening with python-telepathy. I also find that > neither of the DVD burning apps that come with the distro can recognize my > DVD burner, but I have no trouble mounting DVDs on it. 11.0 also had some > odd problems that I thought upgrading to 11.1 had fixed, but apparently some > problems remain. > For DVD burning the issue is known, add your user to "disk" group. > Tonight I'll do the clean install and run your zypper commands again and > I'll let you know how it went. Thanks, > OK, as I said, running the commands listed on the wiki got sugar running here. Use sugar-emulator command instead of Xephyr commands I posted before. You can always drop in IRC Freenode #sugar if you need help, that would probably be faster. Good luck -J From jim.simmons at walgreens.com Wed Jan 28 10:38:21 2009 From: jim.simmons at walgreens.com (James Simmons) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:38:21 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.1, MOSTLY fixed In-Reply-To: References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> <4979EF0D.40608@walgreens.com> Message-ID: <49807BED.9030203@walgreens.com> Jigish, I did a new installation of openSUSE 11.1 on my PC. I deleted all the existing partitions and started over, so absolutely nothing remains from the previous upgrade. I ran your commands and it gave the same complaint about sugar-activities, that it couldn't install etoys. I took option 1 to deal that complaint and wound up with a working installation of Sugar with just a Journal and no Activities. I tried installing just sugar-activities, got the same complaint, and this time chose option 2, which ignores some missing dependencies. This seemed to install some things, including abiword, but when I tried to run sugar-emulation I still got Sugar with a Journal but no Activities are visible. I haven't tried installing my own Activities yet. If that works then what I have working should be of some use to me. I'd really like those other Activities to be there, though. In your email you said *some* Activities don't work, and I assumed you meant you were missing etoys. You're doing better than I am, so I have to wonder what you're doing that I am not? Finally, I'd like to thank you and the others who tried to help me with this! James Simmons From wmb at firmworks.com Wed Jan 28 12:11:44 2009 From: wmb at firmworks.com (Mitch Bradley) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:11:44 -1000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name Message-ID: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a lollipop is just ... From luke at faraone.cc Wed Jan 28 12:38:34 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:38:34 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> Or "rock candy" :) -lf On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: > The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a > lollipop is just .. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/26c7c0d0/attachment.htm From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 28 12:40:54 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:40:54 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [olpc-nz] Hints for a Sugar dev intro? In-Reply-To: <2E631F09-9D5E-49CB-BA15-711542863EAA@coffee.geek.nz> References: <46a038f90901251850s3f90af3dq72e871deb9d09fa2@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901260903q2f9a6454taa930a1a00aed0ae@mail.gmail.com> <2E631F09-9D5E-49CB-BA15-711542863EAA@coffee.geek.nz> Message-ID: <242851610901280940p5cb93c72l1f8a467ae23b57f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 20:26, Brenda Wallace wrote: > I've got a book on python for sugar somewhere. My memory of attempts > was lotsa watching git darcs and svk pulls followed by days of > watching builds and then a error. Then trying again the next day > hoping it was fixed in trunk/head That sounds horrible, I really trust we have improved a lot since those days ;) Regards, Tomeu > On 27/01/2009, at 6:03, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > >> We are planning a Documentation Jam in Uruguay for late February. I >> think Wade's page is an excellent starting point but we want to do it >> in Spanish and to write it from our own experience. Many of us started >> almost from scratch and we want to reflect on the learning curve and >> get to the essentials so new people can join in with less effort. >> >> We have very little experience with Sugar itself. We want to focus at >> this stage on activities, so we plan to cover things like Python, >> PyGtk, Cairo, Pango, Pygame, bundling, using git, using trac, using >> pot files, collaboration, datastore, etc. >> >> If you have any new materials or comments, they would be much >> apprecited. >> >> Regards, >> >> Gabriel >> >> 2009/1/26 Wade Brainerd : >>> I've been doing my best to collect information on getting started >>> here. >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources >>> >>> Note that it's focused on activity development. >>> -Wade >>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Langhoff >> > >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The Wellington Testers team has been asking me for an intro to >>>> programming Sugar. So far, my strategy was to flee the country, but >>>> that trick's getting old... >>>> >>>> So I've been wondering - what materials would you suggest for a >>>> "fast-track into Sugar development" workshop. I am thinking of 2 >>>> half-day sessions, one focused on the Sugar stack and the second one >>>> on activity creation. The welly testers get together once a week, >>>> for >>>> ~4hs -- so that limits the format in this case. >>>> >>>> I won't be the best guy to deliver it, but I'll try. I understand >>>> the >>>> XO stack fairly well, but I'm not a Sugar dev, so patchy in some >>>> areas. >>>> >>>> There's an active python UG in Welly, so maybe they want to be >>>> part of it >>>> too. >>>> >>>> Outcomes >>>> ? more devs knowing Sugar stack and activities ==> more patches, >>>> more >>>> activities? >>>> ? more expert testers... >>>> ? resulting materials and sliderware >>>> ? video of the session - also freely licensed >>>> >>>> Now that I think of it, it'd be great to do it in Spanish, and >>>> circulate it in Uy. Sadly, I don't have a spanish-speaking >>>> audience in >>>> Welly. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> m >>>> -- >>>> martin.langhoff at gmail.com >>>> martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect >>>> - ask interesting questions >>>> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first >>>> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> olpc-nz mailing list >>>> olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org >>>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> olpc-nz mailing list >> olpc-nz at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-nz > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 28 12:41:59 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:41:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901280941i13f12697r72a8e3735d3d4ed0@mail.gmail.com> Agree with Mitch about Soas, but I like more Luke's suggestion. Regards, Tomeu On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 18:38, Luke Faraone wrote: > Or "rock candy" :) > > -lf > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: >> >> The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a >> lollipop is just .. > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 12:45:58 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:45:58 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901280945j3a7b00f3kb66aaab0e017075@mail.gmail.com> To the contrary, the words Sugar on a Stick actually mean something. Actually they mean two things: Sugar environment on a USB stick in the context of software, and a kind of candy in the context of food. Lollipop or Rock Candy means nothing in the context of software unless you *know* you are also in the context of Sugar environments. . I think that if we are producing an "Official" Sugar distribution that is intended to run on XOs, PCs, USB sticks, emulators, etc. perhaps SoaS is a little too specific. Regards, Wade On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > Or "rock candy" :) > > -lf > > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: > >> The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a >> lollipop is just .. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/eadb5b51/attachment-0001.htm From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 12:48:07 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:48:07 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901280945j3a7b00f3kb66aaab0e017075@mail.gmail.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901280945j3a7b00f3kb66aaab0e017075@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7087c32a0901280948m1bd375d9xada20b16c2aff68a@mail.gmail.com> To state my position more generally, I believe we cannot use metaphorical references to associate our brands with each other. It defeats the whole purpose of a unified brand. On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > To the contrary, the words Sugar on a Stick actually mean something. > Actually they mean two things: Sugar environment on a USB stick in the > context of software, and a kind of candy in the context of food. > > Lollipop or Rock Candy means nothing in the context of software unless you > *know* you are also in the context of Sugar environments. . > > I think that if we are producing an "Official" Sugar distribution that is > intended to run on XOs, PCs, USB sticks, emulators, etc. perhaps SoaS is a > little too specific. > > Regards, > Wade > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > >> Or "rock candy" :) >> >> -lf >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: >> >>> The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a >>> lollipop is just .. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/1e13f4be/attachment.htm From gdk at redhat.com Wed Jan 28 13:05:59 2009 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:05:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> Message-ID: A big +1 to lollipop. --g -- Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: > The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a > lollipop is just ... > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 28 13:10:34 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:10:34 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Image Quiz Activity In-Reply-To: <498078A0.2070603@usa.net> References: <498078A0.2070603@usa.net> Message-ID: Tony, what are your plans for after leaving Nepal? We would value your continued contributions to Sugar Labs!! david On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Tony Anderson wrote: > Wade, > > I am working on additions to Image Quiz to add the features mentioned > here. The primary goal is to provide a picture recognition capability > for learning vocabulary (the user is presented with four pictures and > hears an audio prompt, then clicks on the correct picture). The > capability to present flashcards (text, image, or audio prompt, text > response) is also included. One of the other goals was to provide a way > for the user to create his own questions. Collections of questions > (called categories in Image Quiz) may be downloaded from the > schoolserver. They are stored locally in an Sqllite database (images and > sounds in the 'data' folder). > > Progress is slow because of other commitments. However, I should have a > reasonable first release ready by the time I leave for Nepal (Feb. 22). > > Tony > > One of the most common activity requests is a general purpose collaborative > Quiz activity. The ActivityTeam will try to meet this need in the near > future, for now I'm adding it to our TODO list. > > Main subject matter requested as simple activities with lesson plans > > > > > > The main subjects that were requested were German (first language) and > > > Mathematics, which seems to coincide with the requirements of other > > > deployments like the Nepali deployment. In terms of mathematics, these > > > activites should be as simple as possible, for example, the > > > multiplication/division/adding/subtraction tables done in such a way > > > that the teacher could choose which numbers were to be selected and > > > practiced on any given day and by any given student. It should also, > > > then, be possible to pair up students collaboratively to answer these, > > > and once again, at the end of the session, collect the answers in a > > > score card or report, that could be saved or printed by the teacher. > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From wmb at firmworks.com Wed Jan 28 13:18:16 2009 From: wmb at firmworks.com (Mitch Bradley) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:18:16 -1000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <242851610901280941i13f12697r72a8e3735d3d4ed0@mail.gmail.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901280941i13f12697r72a8e3735d3d4ed0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> Rock candy is sugar on a string. Lollipops are sugar on a stick. Clearly you guys didn't spend enough of your youth trying to rot your teeth away. From luke at faraone.cc Wed Jan 28 13:27:21 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:27:21 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901280941i13f12697r72a8e3735d3d4ed0@mail.gmail.com> <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901281027u3153fd3dge6aa34c20fb13b22@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: > Rock candy is sugar on a string. > O RLY? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Rock_Candy.jpg :) -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/ce8aa283/attachment.htm From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Wed Jan 28 13:27:24 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:27:24 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901280941i13f12697r72a8e3735d3d4ed0@mail.gmail.com> <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> Message-ID: So is cotton candy:) On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: > Rock candy is sugar on a string. > > Lollipops are sugar on a stick. > > Clearly you guys didn't spend enough of your youth trying to rot your > teeth away. > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From luke at faraone.cc Wed Jan 28 13:28:47 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:28:47 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901280941i13f12697r72a8e3735d3d4ed0@mail.gmail.com> <4980A168.9040600@firmworks.com> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901281028t7ef5fab4l399ea4cf213f147@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: > Rock candy is sugar on a string. Hm... maybe we'll call our LTSP setup that? :P -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/17d5de62/attachment.htm From sayamindu at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 14:34:24 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:04:24 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: wrong translations of gconf key values In-Reply-To: <1233165337.14635.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233165337.14635.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: This may be important for us as well. -sdg- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Andre Klapper Date: Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:25 PM Subject: wrong translations of gconf key values To: GNOME i18n list Dear translators, Gconf key values should not be translated to your language only (by dropping the original english string) because it makes it impossible for users to set them manually, e.g. by using gconf-editor. That is what the literal quotes should imply, see http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Enclose%20literal%20values%20in%20double%20quotes . Example: msgid "Possible values are \"always\", "\"bonded\"." bad msgstr "Los valores posibles son: ?siempre?, ?vinculados?. good msgstr "Los valores posibles son: ?always? (siempre), ?bonded? (vinculados)." I've grep'ed the evolution po files and found 37 wrong po files. Nautilus: 21 po files. Epiphany: 20 po files. While I'm going to file bug reports for the rest of the evening I ask you how to avoid this. :-) To me it's obvious by looking at the filename of the string (ending with ".schemas.in") that these values should not be translated, but to lots of other translators it's not. In http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=569457 aloriel proposes to add a comment to each of these strings. Other opinions/comments? andre -- mailto:ak-47 at gmx.net | failed http://www.iomc.de/ | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper _______________________________________________ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n at gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From wadetb at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 18:17:33 2009 From: wadetb at gmail.com (Wade Brainerd) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:17:33 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting Message-ID: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings All are encouraged to attend. I will be especially happy to see the following kinds of people well represented: - Current and former activity developers, maintainers, packagers, testers! - Kind souls willing to help slog through and categorize the hundreds of Sugar activities at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus . - Deployment representatives who need activities & activity features yesterday. - G1G1 participants who want to get involved. - Representatives from the other SL teams. Hope to see you there, -Wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/14573c08/attachment.htm From gdk at redhat.com Wed Jan 28 18:24:31 2009 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:24:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Will this be a continuing weekly meeting? --g -- Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] On Wed, 28 Jan 2009, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi everyone, > Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this > Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings > > All are encouraged to attend. ?I will be especially happy to see the > following kinds of people well represented: > > - Current and former activity developers, maintainers, packagers, testers! > - Kind souls willing to help slog through and categorize the hundreds of > Sugar activities at > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus. > - Deployment representatives who need activities & activity features > yesterday. > - G1G1 participants who want to get involved. > - Representatives from the other SL teams. > > Hope to see you there, > > -Wade > > From sj at laptop.org Wed Jan 28 18:30:59 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:30:59 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Activities] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901281530h3c60155ew968fcfa6d22d07bf@mail.gmail.com> Note: there will also be a global volunteering meeting at the same time in #olpc from 3-5, and we will drop in and join for some of the activity discussion. SJ On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi everyone, > Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this > Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings > All are encouraged to attend. I will be especially happy to see the > following kinds of people well represented: > - Current and former activity developers, maintainers, packagers, testers! > - Kind souls willing to help slog through and categorize the hundreds of > Sugar activities at > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus. > - Deployment representatives who need activities & activity features > yesterday. > - G1G1 participants who want to get involved. > - Representatives from the other SL teams. > Hope to see you there, > -Wade > _______________________________________________ > Activities mailing list > Activities at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/activities > > From sj at laptop.org Wed Jan 28 18:54:00 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:54:00 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901280948m1bd375d9xada20b16c2aff68a@mail.gmail.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901280945j3a7b00f3kb66aaab0e017075@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901280948m1bd375d9xada20b16c2aff68a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901281554h478273c9k72b684ab0cc80817@mail.gmail.com> Well, if you mainly want to appeal to / capture memeshare from people with a serious academic/linguistic/coding bent, you can be as obscure as you want. Make each name an anagram of a metaphor of something sugary, followed by the one's digit of the year in which the project was founded. Or what about 'SugarStick' ? SJ On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > To state my position more generally, I believe we cannot use metaphorical > references to associate our brands with each other. It defeats the whole > purpose of a unified brand. > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> >> To the contrary, the words Sugar on a Stick actually mean something. >> Actually they mean two things: Sugar environment on a USB stick in the >> context of software, and a kind of candy in the context of food. >> >> Lollipop or Rock Candy means nothing in the context of software unless you >> *know* you are also in the context of Sugar environments. . >> >> I think that if we are producing an "Official" Sugar distribution that is >> intended to run on XOs, PCs, USB sticks, emulators, etc. perhaps SoaS is a >> little too specific. >> >> Regards, >> Wade >> >> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: >>> >>> Or "rock candy" :) >>> >>> -lf >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a >>>> lollipop is just .. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From martin.langhoff at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 19:10:50 2009 From: martin.langhoff at gmail.com (Martin Langhoff) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:10:50 +1300 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Auto-authentication for Browse - In-Reply-To: <46a038f90901231040h6650839cm289552dde817370c@mail.gmail.com> References: <46a038f90901231040h6650839cm289552dde817370c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46a038f90901281610g38d4a30dofbe7da9434dd97d9@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > In terms of what to do with Browse.xo, I have a couple of rough ideas > to propose. *bump* :-) m -- martin.langhoff at gmail.com martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff From bryan at olenepal.org Wed Jan 28 21:20:30 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:05:30 +0545 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1233195630.6314.40.camel@hitman> On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 18:17 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi everyone, > > > Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this > Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. > > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings > > Wade, great idea! I would love to attend but unfortunately 3 PM EST translates to 2 AM Saturday morning. I do have an item to add to the agenda, which you and I have discussed previously. I would love for someone on the activityTeam to document how to easily add new instruments to TamTam. I have added this as a High-impact task on the ToDo List We do have a Nepali volunteer Vrishank Khanal who is trying to figure this out. Vrishank is brand-new to linux, programming, and open-source so adding instruments to TamTam may be beyond his current abilities if the task requires C Programming and/or CSound scripting. He has contacted Jean Piche. Let's hope he hears back soon. -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From alsroot at member.fsf.org Wed Jan 28 21:35:57 2009 From: alsroot at member.fsf.org (Aleksey Lim) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:35:57 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <1233195630.6314.40.camel@hitman> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> <1233195630.6314.40.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <20090129023557.GA21323@antilopa-gnu> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 08:05:30AM +0545, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 18:17 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this > > Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. > > > > > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings > > > > > > Wade, great idea! I would love to attend but unfortunately 3 PM EST > translates to 2 AM Saturday morning. > > I do have an item to add to the agenda, which you and I have discussed > previously. > > I would love for someone on the activityTeam to document how to easily > add new instruments to TamTam. I have added this as a High-impact task > on the ToDo List > > We do have a Nepali volunteer Vrishank Khanal who is trying to figure > this out. Vrishank is brand-new to linux, programming, and open-source > so adding instruments to TamTam may be beyond his current abilities if > the task requires C Programming and/or CSound scripting. He has > contacted Jean Piche. Let's hope he hears back soon. its(adding new intruments) already in progress :) -- Aleksey From cjstuij at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 22:48:43 2009 From: cjstuij at gmail.com (Ties Stuij) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:33:43 +0545 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Image Quiz Activity In-Reply-To: References: <498078A0.2070603@usa.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:55 PM, David Farning wrote: > Tony, what are your plans for after leaving Nepal? We would value > your continued contributions to Sugar Labs!! What do you mean 'after leaving Nepal'? There is no after. Back off headhunters! Tony is going nowhere. With or without his consent! What is it with you Sugarlabs people these days, trying to diverge OLEN's resources? Is this a coordinated attack? /Ties From grantbow at gmail.com Wed Jan 28 23:13:55 2009 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:55 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild Message-ID: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I'm new to the list. I received my G1G1 hardware on Jan 6th after ordering Dec 30th and have been exploring the capabilities since then. My next step is setting up my desktop for development. I checked the last couple months of archives and saw a few Jhbuild related items but nothing that seemed to address the problem I am having. Today I followed the instructions at DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild to download and compile sugar on an updated Ubuntu 8.10 machine. After addressing all dependencies it seemed to compile just fine. When I run it now using './sugar-jhbuild run' I have mouse input but keyboard input is ignored even after the ctrl-shift capturing command. Since the terminal output is lengthy and repetitive I pasted it all at http://pastebin.be/16352 where it will be available for a week. I don't see any immediately instructive errors but I may be missing something. I pasted a few sample lines below. Any suggestions on what to try next? Thanks, -- -- Grant Bowman expected keysym, got XF86_Switch_VT_1: line 8 of xfree86 The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Multiple interpretations of "NoSymbol+AnyOfOrNone(all)" > Using last definition for duplicate fields (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed unrecognised device identifier! From cjb at laptop.org Wed Jan 28 23:14:15 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:14:15 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild In-Reply-To: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345__17362.9815144979$1233202557$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> (Grant Bowman's message of "Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:13:55 -0800") References: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345__17362.9815144979$1233202557$gmane$org@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Grant, > When I run it now using './sugar-jhbuild run' I have mouse input > but keyboard input is ignored even after the ctrl-shift capturing > command. Since the terminal output is lengthy and repetitive I > pasted it all at http://pastebin.be/16352 where it will be > available for a week. I don't see any immediately instructive > errors but I may be missing something. I pasted a few sample lines > below. Any suggestions on what to try next? This isn't the answer you're expecting, but if you aren't planning on hacking bleeding-edge Sugar, I'd just install the Sugar packages in Ubuntu. (apt-get install sugar sugar-activities sugar-emulator, or something). Those packages are recent enough to be fine for developing activities against. Thanks, - Chris. -- Chris Ball From bryan at olenepal.org Thu Jan 29 01:03:22 2009 From: bryan at olenepal.org (Bryan Berry) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:48:22 +0545 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <20090129023557.GA21323@antilopa-gnu> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> <1233195630.6314.40.camel@hitman> <20090129023557.GA21323@antilopa-gnu> Message-ID: <1233209002.14634.19.camel@hitman> On Thu, 2009-01-29 at 02:35 +0000, Aleksey Lim wrote: > its(adding new intruments) already in progress :) > Awesome! Zamechatelno! -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org From cjstuij at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 03:25:41 2009 From: cjstuij at gmail.com (Ties Stuij) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:10:41 +0545 Subject: [Sugar-devel] control panel Message-ID: We'd like to have the controlpanel updater translated to Nepali, but it seems sugar-update-control.po isn't in glucose 8.2. It is in glucose though, we're translating it right now, but my guess is that the two of them have nothing to do with each other. Is it still possible to put the .po file in 8.2? Thanks, /Ties From morgan.collett at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 04:21:56 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:21:56 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: <20090128154221.GL7162@jones.dk> References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> <20090128125406.GE7162@jones.dk> <49805C80.7070103@codewiz.org> <20090128154221.GL7162@jones.dk> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 17:42, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:24:16PM +0100, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >>The change he prposes is s/olpc/sugar/, which I can hardly imagine as >>a violation of any Debian Uppercase Policy. > > Indeed that was his proposal. > > I talk about a Python Policy, not an uppercase one: The (main) Python > module currently contained in sugar-datastore is "olpc.datastore", not > "sugar.datastore". > > It also contains another Python module "secore" that I until now have > stuffed into that same binary package as the "olpc.datastore" one. Ah! Tomeu, any reason why datastore has src/olpc/datastore instead of src/sugar/datastore? A namespace clash? Too late for 0.84 I guess, but can we rename it to remove olpc in the future? Regards Morgan From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 04:40:02 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:40:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild In-Reply-To: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901290140p22bfcb35r9294bb972c6b1ef2@mail.gmail.com> Hi Grant, may this thread help? http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc/2006-02/msg00006.html Regards, Tomeu On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 05:13, Grant Bowman wrote: > Hi there, I'm new to the list. I received my G1G1 hardware on Jan 6th > after ordering Dec 30th and have been exploring the capabilities since > then. My next step is setting up my desktop for development. > > I checked the last couple months of archives and saw a few Jhbuild > related items but nothing that seemed to address the problem I am > having. Today I followed the instructions at DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild > to download and compile sugar on an updated Ubuntu 8.10 machine. > After addressing all dependencies it seemed to compile just fine. > > When I run it now using './sugar-jhbuild run' I have mouse input but > keyboard input is ignored even after the ctrl-shift capturing command. > Since the terminal output is lengthy and repetitive I pasted it all > at http://pastebin.be/16352 where it will be available for a week. I > don't see any immediately instructive errors but I may be missing > something. I pasted a few sample lines below. Any suggestions on > what to try next? > > Thanks, > > -- > -- Grant Bowman > > > > expected keysym, got XF86_Switch_VT_1: line 8 of xfree86 > > The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >> Warning: Multiple interpretations of "NoSymbol+AnyOfOrNone(all)" >> Using last definition for duplicate fields > > (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed > unrecognised device identifier! > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From morgan.collett at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 04:59:35 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:59:35 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Activities] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 01:17, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hi everyone, > Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this > Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings > All are encouraged to attend. I will be especially happy to see the > following kinds of people well represented: > - Current and former activity developers, maintainers, packagers, testers! > - Kind souls willing to help slog through and categorize the hundreds of > Sugar activities at > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus. > - Deployment representatives who need activities & activity features > yesterday. > - G1G1 participants who want to get involved. > - Representatives from the other SL teams. I'd love to be involved, but that's 10PM on a Friday for me... please take good minutes and I'll try to contribute on the lists. Perhaps future meetings could alternate with an earlier time? Regards Morgan From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 05:02:18 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:02:18 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Gary C Martin wrote: > Cool. > > Any tips as to what to do with these 2 on an XO? The only thing I've done > with .img and .crc before is copy-nand from firmware ? is it possible to run > them from a usb stick without wiping nand or effecting the existing nand > install (so we can encourage safe(er) testing of new code)? You can use copy-nand if you want to install them on the nand. To install on a usb stick you can follow the Fedora on XO instruction (with the .iso Soas image). It should be possible to do it from a XO. See: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora10_On_XO#Installing_your_SD_card It would be good to add this to the Soas wiki page. Let me know if you have any problems! Marco From simon at schampijer.de Thu Jan 29 05:02:24 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:02:24 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Exception for 'View Details' option for the object palette in the journal Message-ID: <49817EB0.9070607@schampijer.de> Hi, this is another little piece that is missing to meet the spec at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Journal#04 The string is new - so no existing strings are effected. Thanks, Simon [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release#Feature_freeze -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: add_detail_option_to_palette.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 4127 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090129/592877fb/attachment.patch From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 05:13:02 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:13:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Naming of "sugar", the Sugar Shell In-Reply-To: References: <2eaf0c620901271145y6debf12cid127dc2eb3212139@mail.gmail.com> <49801EC3.8060800@codewiz.org> <20090128125406.GE7162@jones.dk> <49805C80.7070103@codewiz.org> <20090128154221.GL7162@jones.dk> Message-ID: <242851610901290213wf055483y36efecc0ed8e9f21@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:21, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 17:42, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:24:16PM +0100, Bernie Innocenti wrote: >>>The change he prposes is s/olpc/sugar/, which I can hardly imagine as >>>a violation of any Debian Uppercase Policy. >> >> Indeed that was his proposal. >> >> I talk about a Python Policy, not an uppercase one: The (main) Python >> module currently contained in sugar-datastore is "olpc.datastore", not >> "sugar.datastore". >> >> It also contains another Python module "secore" that I until now have >> stuffed into that same binary package as the "olpc.datastore" one. > > Ah! > > Tomeu, any reason why datastore has src/olpc/datastore instead of > src/sugar/datastore? A namespace clash? > > Too late for 0.84 I guess, but can we rename it to remove olpc in the future? Well, sugar.datastore would clash with the toolkit, but we could and should have chosen some other name. As it's code private to the datastore service, could have been a nonsense name like hulahop or jarabe. But when I started rewriting the old one, I kept the same name and forgot to change it later, sorry :( Maybe it's not too late to change it? Regards, Tomeu From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 05:18:07 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:18:07 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Exception for 'View Details' option for the object palette in the journal In-Reply-To: <49817EB0.9070607@schampijer.de> References: <49817EB0.9070607@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <242851610901290218l1b5967fx523c94f7484e9edd@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:02, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Hi, > > this is another little piece that is missing to meet the spec at > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Journal#04 > > The string is new - so no existing strings are effected. I would like to see this feature added because the detailed view of an entry is a bit hidden in the small button on the right side of the list view. Adding this option to the palette would help people realize earlier that there's a more detailed view and afterwards I expect people to click on the small button. But I guess it's the localization team that knows how convenient is adding this change at this moment. Regards, Tomeu > Thanks, > Simon > > [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release#Feature_freeze > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From grantbow at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 06:48:06 2009 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:48:06 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild In-Reply-To: <242851610901290140p22bfcb35r9294bb972c6b1ef2@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901290140p22bfcb35r9294bb972c6b1ef2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <317e39f0901290348j69ee1eeeh1b1e2e37a63b1322@mail.gmail.com> Hi Chris and Tomeu, I've tried a few things but no joy yet other than my hardware XO seeing the image on my development machine over the network for a moment.. Thanks Chris for your quick reply! I already had installed the packages from months ago on this machine. It might have been customized 8.04 package instructions, it's been awhile. apt-get tells me the packages are the latest revision but I'll double check my sources.list.. I stopped tinkering with it because I didn't know the hardware and/or shortcut bindings I needed to be effective in a Sugar environment. Now that I have a hardware device and have seen some pointers on shortcuts I'm looking forward to getting this working again. I think it used to work. I do have functional mouse and keyboard when running the packages but the icons are not found in the theme making most navigation bordering on impossible with invisible icons. Also running the Terminal failed to launch. I tried as both my own user and as root user with identical results. Here are the error messages of my running the Ubuntu 8.10 packages on my machine. http://pastebin.be/16354 Again I've attached same error messages below that I think are relevant from this second pastebin. Tomeu, that link seems like it describes my problem exactlty! It seems like an xserver conflict of some kind but with the mouse and keyboard running OK in the packages it confuses me, indicating I'm about to learn something. :-) I'll read up and let you know if I get it sorted out. I am sure there would be tremendous value in having the git tree run out of the box on Ubuntu 8.10 systems and it seems so close for me. Maybe I'll try a full xsession instead of running in a window. Thank you both for your replies. I hope to have one of the two environments working pretty soon as I start to explore the code. My goal is to learn enough about NetworkManager, d-bus and wpa_supplicant to fix some bugs I've encountered in my own local AP environment - hidden AP ssid (non broadcasting) and using WEP40 ascii keys. On first look it seems some code is missing to handle this particular case but I'm still trying to sort out if that's true or not as I wander through and learn more about the code. I have a list of other 1st-time user bugs I've encountered as I've gotten more familiar with my XO-1 that I will try to get to filing when I can work them up into proper bug reports and verify they aren't duplicates in trac. My list currently has a crash bug on zooming that deleted the first write document I ever made (ouch), network view refreshing to white sometimes in different circumstances (I reloaded the 767image since and see no problems now), develop activity crashed the machine, NetworkManager throws an error when stopped twice, some spurious xkbdcomp errors, occasional scrollbars missing in the Browse activity (need to identify a repeatable case), time settings not written to /etc/localtime like I read it should, book style navigator OK button (check button on the screen) didnt' work as expected, rotating orientation of touchpad would be nice to syn with rotated screen orientation, etc. Thanks again for your help. I will report back when I make some progress. Regards, -- Grant Bowman On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:40 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > Hi Grant, may this thread help? > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc/2006-02/msg00006.html > > Regards, > > Tomeu > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 05:13, Grant Bowman wrote: >> Hi there, I'm new to the list. I received my G1G1 hardware on Jan 6th >> after ordering Dec 30th and have been exploring the capabilities since >> then. My next step is setting up my desktop for development. >> >> I checked the last couple months of archives and saw a few Jhbuild >> related items but nothing that seemed to address the problem I am >> having. Today I followed the instructions at DevelopmentTeam/Jhbuild >> to download and compile sugar on an updated Ubuntu 8.10 machine. >> After addressing all dependencies it seemed to compile just fine. >> >> When I run it now using './sugar-jhbuild run' I have mouse input but >> keyboard input is ignored even after the ctrl-shift capturing command. >> Since the terminal output is lengthy and repetitive I pasted it all >> at http://pastebin.be/16352 where it will be available for a week. I >> don't see any immediately instructive errors but I may be missing >> something. I pasted a few sample lines below. Any suggestions on >> what to try next? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> -- Grant Bowman >> >> >> >> expected keysym, got XF86_Switch_VT_1: line 8 of xfree86 >> >> The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >>> Warning: Multiple interpretations of "NoSymbol+AnyOfOrNone(all)" >>> Using last definition for duplicate fields >> >> (EE) config/hal: NewInputDeviceRequest failed >> unrecognised device identifier! From grantbow at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 07:02:27 2009 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:02:27 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild In-Reply-To: <317e39f0901290348j69ee1eeeh1b1e2e37a63b1322@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901290140p22bfcb35r9294bb972c6b1ef2@mail.gmail.com> <317e39f0901290348j69ee1eeeh1b1e2e37a63b1322@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <317e39f0901290402r4f136910r90e56c3a66e4ea7c@mail.gmail.com> Oops, sample errors from http://pastebin.be/16354 -- Grant Bowman > sugar root window unavailible (maybe another wm is running?) 1233219662.097566 WARNING root: No icon with the name go-right was found in the theme. 1233219662.106293 ERROR dbus.proxies: Introspect error on org.freedesktop.ohm:/org/freedesktop/ohm/Keystore: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.ohm was not provided by any .service files 1233219662.213436 WARNING root: No icon with the name go-right was found in the theme. 1233219662.216576 ERROR root: Cannot unfreeze the DCON 1233219708.960430 WARNING root: No icon with the name computer-xo was found in the theme. [u'sugar-activity', u'journalactivity.JournalActivity', '-b', dbus.String(u'org.laptop.JournalActivity', variant_level=1), '-a', '1e9cf902d15bb1ea010c93e8c1af2844dca3628d'] 1233219734.716714 ERROR dbus.proxies: Introspect error on :1.5:/org/laptop/Activity/1e9cf902d15bb1ea010c93e8c1af2844dca3628d: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) [u'sugar-activity', u'terminal.TerminalActivity', '-b', dbus.String(u'org.laptop.Terminal', variant_level=1), '-a', 'c6d9ff2de47e382c42bc61b9eac609a14bd5cdcc'] 1233219762.830013 ERROR dbus.proxies: Introspect error on :1.6:/org/laptop/Activity/c6d9ff2de47e382c42bc61b9eac609a14bd5cdcc: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) (sugar-shell:29442): Wnck-WARNING **: Received a timestamp of 0; window activation may not function properly. 1233219980.958574 ERROR root: Model for window 71308322 does not exist. From morgan.collett at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 07:05:59 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:05:59 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild In-Reply-To: <317e39f0901290402r4f136910r90e56c3a66e4ea7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901290140p22bfcb35r9294bb972c6b1ef2@mail.gmail.com> <317e39f0901290348j69ee1eeeh1b1e2e37a63b1322@mail.gmail.com> <317e39f0901290402r4f136910r90e56c3a66e4ea7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 14:02, Grant Bowman wrote: > Oops, sample errors from http://pastebin.be/16354 Run sugar-emulator, not sugar. Regards Morgan From guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk Thu Jan 29 07:18:04 2009 From: guillaume.desmottes at collabora.co.uk (Guillaume Desmottes) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:18:04 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ANNOUNCE: telepathy-gabble 0.7.19 released Message-ID: <1233231485.6375.618.camel@cass-lpt> The "redecorated" release. Tarball: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.19.tar.gz Signature: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/releases/telepathy-gabble/telepathy-gabble-0.7.19.tar.gz.asc Git repository: http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=telepathy-gabble.git;a=summary Fixes: * Don't crash when closing a muc channel containing an closed D-Bus tube. * Don't resurrect removed streams if the call responder includes them in session-accept * Don't crash in calls if using glib with debugging enabled (fd.o #19327). * Don't crash when removing contact from known list (fd.o #19524). * Fix D-Bus muc tubes (dev.sugarlabs.org #60). * Fix refcount leak in jingle code (fd.o #19385). * Don't crash if "offline" presence status is requested. Full git changes follow. Regards, G. commit 272b70daae6f67bd800d2e8136f01a9f94951e88 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Thu Jan 29 11:29:36 2009 +0000 version 0.7.19 commit a290dbc66172242f8f86f990ba1a91c24e407b3c Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Thu Jan 29 11:18:56 2009 +0000 update NEWS for 0.7.19 commit fca5346c8aadd821bb7fb19e0f4161a219dd39f6 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Thu Jan 29 12:49:27 2009 +0100 conn-presence: check that we allow setting a particular status commit 08188078675c3e05fb04fe7242197cce86a64b48 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Thu Jan 29 12:58:49 2009 +0100 NEWS: mentioned refcount leak and offline presence crash fixes commit 1ff8f2c9cb521d9774a079afc783b462d32cbf30 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Thu Jan 29 10:52:53 2009 +0000 NEWS: dev.sugarlabs.org #60 have been fixed by f91276ededfc019421000b4975b2da010aa96e2c commit e808784effcfd8b8cca23056a937f5f2ed3094cb Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Thu Jan 29 10:39:42 2009 +0000 remove trailing space in NEWS commit 94508ccf3736e2e940b94efebb3918e3cb9b64fa Author: Senko Rasic Date: Wed Jan 28 10:20:16 2009 +0100 JingleMediaRTP: remove session refcount leak commit ae77c2f5c3713e38c91d1cd9daffaac1d82f273e Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 27 17:09:28 2009 +0000 rename TUBE_STATUS to TUBE_STATE commit b0ef17f22c153c8bd1b11acee259fbac06b652e3 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 27 16:51:09 2009 +0000 offer-accept-private-dbus-stream-tube-socks5.py: Status property has been renamed to State commit 621ed5abf8498e214c77e3f17aeb14c47baffac5 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 27 16:50:41 2009 +0000 offer-accept-private-dbus-stream-tube-ibb.py: Status property has been renamed to State commit ecdddd7f33ba4b1c4ecb754c8f9a6fbf3c490eb7 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 27 16:50:17 2009 +0000 gabble_tube_stream_class_init: Status property has been renamed to State commit f42c29aed06d8a012d1d73b79fa75a672f3698fa Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 27 16:49:54 2009 +0000 sync tube new API draft with tp-spec master commit 99b62587dffb2893812518a7b4065657d62a0528 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 27 16:43:12 2009 +0000 all.xml: add DBus_Unique_Name external type commit 466d428a8ad82d1a2c1ee8cd9ceb7ce3f2b9d064 Merge: 77db359... 04891ac... Author: Simon McVittie Date: Tue Jan 27 14:12:08 2009 +0000 Merge branch 'invalidhandle' Signed-off-by: Guillaume Desmottes commit 77db35924d2da9aab1ce58799494da8b417fe1bc Author: Will Thompson Date: Thu Jan 22 15:40:28 2009 +1100 Don't include dtubes in tubes_foreach_channel. commit 78350203d8d85fbf080a8a012383a32689519f47 Author: Will Thompson Date: Wed Jan 21 18:26:16 2009 +1100 Add a test for ListChannels() crashing given a dtube commit 9f8be82197d77a3d46e4d155e67bb3c9f8f9a516 Author: Simon McVittie Date: Tue Jan 20 19:14:43 2009 +0000 Document how to run tests with coverage Also correct the instruction to run "make check-all" - the Twisted tests haven't required that for a long time. commit d07743ba9fc04869f9831da5ef237727e426f59b Author: Simon McVittie Date: Tue Jan 20 19:03:26 2009 +0000 gabbletest: don't wait for Gabble to exit with-session-bus.sh will now do this if using refdbg, which means that individual tests shouldn't need to. commit 978f93ba348ef3b472edc7f3e3c6d60c8b44c951 Author: Simon McVittie Date: Tue Jan 20 19:00:46 2009 +0000 Insert "wait for exit" in a way that only enables it when using lcov or refdbg Based on comments from Guillaume. commit 9842081653c93831bf509d2954b6cc99a63b3a52 Author: Simon McVittie Date: Tue Jan 20 18:04:58 2009 +0000 Use compiler.m4 (from Aranha via telepathy-glib) to control coverage/optimizations commit 2f9f04960e8acc42e2f58a1fd7c39116ed36db91 Author: Simon McVittie Date: Fri Jan 16 10:49:47 2009 +0000 tests/twisted: after tests, sleep long enough for Gabble to exit cleanly If libdbus calls _exit() as a result of being disconnected from the session bus, Gabble won't write out coverage data. Libraries exiting considered harmful, etc. This doesn't slow tests down very much in practice, since we only invoke with-session-bus.sh once for the entire twisted directory. (This change requires copying in a newer with-session-bus.sh from telepathy-glib) commit fb8a53ca392f276739a92de0b88727b262c7cca9 Author: Simon McVittie Date: Fri Jan 16 10:47:39 2009 +0000 Add LCOV machinery commit e9617286b23c53c21391640b329dd28352f20dff Author: Simon McVittie Date: Fri Jan 16 10:46:15 2009 +0000 .gitignore: anchor paths at root of tree where appropriate commit 85289b08f621bb3fbe39a76b834c39955ef9a1e5 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 13:28:18 2009 +0100 Add reference to the fixed fd.o bug #19524 to test and NEWS. commit a4d1c64325b6a221f6d0f2b81d7b2cb3e52196d9 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 12:36:49 2009 +0100 roster.c: explain the handle ref for roster_edited_cb commit 81be6cd099b5159dcfe9f2dc8c86f8e434324473 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 11:57:19 2009 +0100 test roster handle reffing by deleting roster items commit d172f1b96de42da64fec4a0bd81af40166aee879 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 11:49:26 2009 +0100 roster.c: ref handles expected to be valid in later roster edit callback commit 3ea6c9e0af2aed0ca38b9d4d38974db42caf42ba Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 13:08:10 2009 +0100 I accidentially the fd.o# commit 1e243c01bade3476aff4c54e95a98a8d23fbe6d0 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 12:27:05 2009 +0100 fix typo in NEWS commit 5de6335beecaa3d07b23aaaba946f706d571b845 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 12:24:20 2009 +0100 test-content-adding-removal.py: use constants instead of hardcoded numbers commit 5101ef3d36d30161382474e492189a67e98ac057 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 12:13:17 2009 +0100 add reference to fixed fd.o#19327 to NEWS and test source commit 8f00ca50a5d7b5e1624b4ed51fdc8c22664b3a7b Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 12:06:17 2009 +0100 jingletest.py: refactor create_content_node helper as a standalone method commit a0eb85790ca784e02f34699de1c4b856120e9503 Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 20 09:41:56 2009 +0100 JingleSession: ignore session-accept accepting streams we're in the middle of removing commit 04891ac23408b733abf3a8bbb2fae4bfa053036e Author: Simon McVittie Date: Fri Jan 16 16:42:56 2009 +0000 gabble_normalize_room, gabble_normalize_contact: use InvalidHandle for errors As per recent spec changes. commit 30d6b4d417ee2b437be26e4bc2c8a3b69d79263a Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Fri Jan 16 10:47:59 2009 +0000 Connection_Interface_Contact_Capabilities.xml: update to latest draft commit 107f86c8c20c4d7cc4c81db464ac20607bb31ba9 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Fri Jan 16 11:03:07 2009 +0000 add DBusTube constants to constants.py commit 9e4ea552da65f72d45d287c66efcfb646f6ed61f Author: Senko Rasic Date: Tue Jan 13 23:23:15 2009 +0100 JingleSession: fix signature for new-content signal commit 0744fcf53db7e8345a194aadc22a389c20c7ef0d Author: Will Thompson Date: Tue Jan 13 17:32:04 2009 +0000 Fix a race between two expects by combining them. commit ce849f046596f0c71c4e593454858cc4ac8b83e0 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 13 15:47:13 2009 +0000 offer-accept-private-dbus-stream-tube-ibb.py: use constants.py commit 41024c3fd93e149107206c6a0248dd5d5917bf8b Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 13 15:46:41 2009 +0000 add more constants commit b568b7d4922912efad0d46bdbfb389250b57c1f9 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 13 15:11:56 2009 +0000 steal constants.py from Salut commit 08a8e3114ddf350394192654a909b674828befc1 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 13 12:46:40 2009 +0000 offer-accept-private-dbus-stream-tube-ibb: make test clearer and fix properties checking commit 46b1857350a84a99c2811a94f9bf0215c9ee5cb3 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 13 12:46:01 2009 +0000 Status and Parameters don't have to be in channel-properties as they are mutables commit 4079187646daa61107e5485dd9bfba4a2393ae80 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 13 10:54:11 2009 +0000 offer-muc-stream-tube-ibb: remove commented code and explain why we can't catch NewChannel signal anymore commit bf1a7c4f622612945142eb50873aa9e903bff132 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 17:43:28 2009 +0000 offer-muc-stream-tube-ibb: text and tubes channels are now announced together commit 77a39c58a6a7ebeadd8001be8abc754b5bf746e6 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 17:43:02 2009 +0000 test-get-available-tubes.py: check that the tubes and text channels are announced together commit d5866e5817f1f284708badbcddd7656281d53aaf Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 17:42:33 2009 +0000 announce tubes and text channels together when the text one was created as a side effect of the tubes request commit a199cb4fddf8e4087bfb3aded73953346bea839c Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 16:37:50 2009 +0000 gabble_muc_factory_request: use tp_channel_manager_emit_new_channel directly instead of gabble_muc_factory_associate_request when announcing a newly created tubes channel commit 39863df3228568e13a4644090f8e5e601a392727 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 16:34:30 2009 +0000 muc_factory_presence_cb: use tp_channel_manager_emit_new_channel directly instead of gabble_muc_factory_emit_new_channel as the text channel was already announced as ready so there is no pending queued requests associated with it commit 05d2b2a90d4931ebfa9a13a8d7064649af174083 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 15:09:10 2009 +0000 muc-factory: factor out ensure_tubes_channel commit 78089c134ee40cea745e1389dfa25dc00b26259c Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:07:53 2009 +0000 tubes test have been renamed to {offer,accept}-{muc,private}-{dbus,stream}-tube-{streaming_method}.py commit 9f2b4375f0fa8c77189dbd611772dd691294417d Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:06:51 2009 +0000 rename test-muc-offer-stream-tube-ibb.py to offer-muc-stream-tube-ibb.py commit bb20ccb6483b123e888654cbe0239fee3263a7ea Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:06:27 2009 +0000 rename test-muc-offer-dbus-tube.py to offer-muc-dbus-tube.py commit c411de3a24840ca7c427eb3398a47d147d495d80 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:06:10 2009 +0000 rename test-si-fallback.py to offer-accept-private-stream-tube-si-fallback.py commit 85d81694da1fc0b96049c185e4fac0ebbca73d05 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:05:48 2009 +0000 rename test-si-socks5-tubes.py to offer-accept-private-dbus-stream-tube-socks5.py commit 8fa410954a943b7a9b128b2151266c6c3e6f2d50 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:05:30 2009 +0000 rename test-si-ibb-tubes.py to offer-accept-private-dbus-stream-tube-ibb.py commit 3f49c96fb2a4707929d885423ebce64f275f7ca6 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:05:09 2009 +0000 rename test-si-accept-tubes.py to accept-private-stream-tube.py commit 2a4bac2b6aace43e6834ee2983f7dd5103927396 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 13:04:45 2009 +0000 rename test-muc-accept-stream-tube-ibb.py to accept-muc-stream-tube-ibb.py commit baf1c2c2fca49da839ff5fd6bdaa3455ace2806b Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 12:46:01 2009 +0000 tube-dbus: fix tube-offered signal definition commit ed1b6eb223dcb3c53f51aa0f5d5ee46f4f79e1e1 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 12:31:16 2009 +0000 test if the NewTube signal is correcty fired when using the new API commit 045715e20539ce9ee895b3460c44456d8f6b73db Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 12:30:51 2009 +0000 tubes-channel: delay the NewTube signal until the tube has been offered as the old API doesn't have a not-offered state commit 0f97ab149383d0523f3e3581551069e29a1d8508 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 12:29:58 2009 +0000 tube-dbus: add tube-offered signal commit e49d12d948e1a7edcef5b5816ce1e651a5d74f8d Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 12:29:37 2009 +0000 tube-stream: add tube-offered signal commit 11402119593d7731b74d8fe5c4f580156d4a8464 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 11:47:03 2009 +0000 private-tubes-factory: rename priv->channels to priv->tubes_channels commit 6e950160d75316b0d9f095dd0acd3234e18ebbb7 Merge: 77d9d39... 5166e88... Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 11:14:30 2009 +0000 Merge branch 'master' into old-new-tube-api commit 77d9d3951dad2d5b9a8b5ab89e54cf9a04ef09ab Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 11:12:03 2009 +0000 test-si-ibb-tubes.py: check if the tube newly created channel is properly announced when we create a tube using the old API commit d0c10f979a0a4c1ca68a27b20b5673d43a50847a Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 11:11:22 2009 +0000 test-si-ibb-tubes.py: some cleaning commit b050a5f296358227178b44b2fae79e0517accf69 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 11:08:24 2009 +0000 gabble_tubes_channel_offer_stream_tube: announce the newly created tube channel commit 8f939a931e1aac22541d02a5d064207a21dfda62 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Mon Jan 12 11:07:03 2009 +0000 add gabble_private_tubes_factory_tube_created commit 5166e88ed1bc112ef8ec8f2ee6d425aba836da93 Author: Alban Crequy Date: Sat Jan 10 18:49:47 2009 +0000 src/jingle-factory.c: fix leaks in lm stanza commit 83d0aedefdcc706fbefa909a311c192cbe30c115 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Fri Jan 9 15:54:51 2009 +0000 test-si-ibb-tubes.py; check Status and Parameters commit 4b06bbc0522d2a94114274c352e93577561777ab Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Fri Jan 9 15:54:14 2009 +0000 tube-stream: add Status and Parameters to channel properties commit af2f8a6ad3bd6ead1f55c40dfd05a0c8ba2ba99f Merge: c8b4411... 25e7835... Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Wed Jan 7 16:32:00 2009 +0000 Merge branch 'master' of git +ssh://git.collabora.co.uk/git/telepathy-gabble commit c8b441130841e933e94fd9de503f78572e3e595e Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Wed Jan 7 16:31:19 2009 +0000 start NEWS for the future release commit f91276ededfc019421000b4975b2da010aa96e2c Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Wed Jan 7 16:12:27 2009 +0000 gabble_bytestream_muc_set_property: g_signal_emit_by_name doesn't take a 0 argument commit 64578362aaecf7354169a746c567cd383eb39d8d Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Wed Jan 7 16:12:03 2009 +0000 add tubes/close-muc-with-closed-tube.py to test suite commit 9f33791d66f4ff26806402d4a21c5b84fcaa7aa0 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Wed Jan 7 16:11:49 2009 +0000 add tubes/close-muc-with-closed-tube.py commit 25e7835581b2b41bf1450dce474692867e327084 Author: Sjoerd Simons Date: Wed Jan 7 15:17:56 2009 +0000 Add a random id to the stream opening instead of assuming buggy clients commit 3c4ebd31daa7c45bfde2de00a097ea5be472149c Author: Sjoerd Simons Date: Wed Jan 7 11:44:17 2009 +0000 Don't define things as const that aren't commit ad29c2480ddd5dad97a9de183231797dde2be1c0 Author: Sjoerd Simons Date: Wed Jan 7 11:43:44 2009 +0000 Don't free a GList using g_slist_free commit 5d648757a2308868cff981fc4f63199339d63cc2 Author: Guillaume Desmottes Date: Tue Jan 6 18:18:36 2009 +0000 version 0.7.18 From sayamindu at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 07:33:54 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:03:54 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Localization] Exception for 'View Details' option for the object palette in the journal In-Reply-To: <49817EB0.9070607@schampijer.de> References: <49817EB0.9070607@schampijer.de> Message-ID: Seems logical enough to me. +1 -sdg- On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Hi, > > this is another little piece that is missing to meet the spec at > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Journal#04 > > The string is new - so no existing strings are effected. > > Thanks, > Simon > > [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release#Feature_freeze > > > > _______________________________________________ > Localization mailing list > Localization at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization > > -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From sayamindu at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 07:35:44 2009 From: sayamindu at gmail.com (Sayamindu Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:05:44 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] control panel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh that one is a long-standing bug which got fixed recently, Just wait for 8.2.1 (should be out within a few weeks) If you want to test - try one of the staging builds. -sdg- On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Ties Stuij wrote: > We'd like to have the controlpanel updater translated to Nepali, but > it seems sugar-update-control.po isn't in glucose 8.2. It is in > glucose though, we're translating it right now, but my guess is that > the two of them have nothing to do with each other. Is it still > possible to put the .po file in 8.2? > > Thanks, > /Ties > -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] From mel at melchua.com Thu Jan 29 07:48:45 2009 From: mel at melchua.com (Mel Chua) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:48:45 +1300 Subject: [Sugar-devel] addons.mozilla.org - what needs to be done? In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901270648i568563calc6f511f09d602904@mail.gmail.com> References: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> <242851610901270410r6693f2c7wc33c9ca479d5dccb@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901270648i568563calc6f511f09d602904@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4981A5AD.9040109@melchua.com> Ok, I think Tomeu and I caught up tonight and I'm ready to keep pushing this forward, so... *tinkers with http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Remora_port* Time for the questions. 1. There are a few instances of remora running on sunjammer. Which one is the one under active development/test? (Or is it expected that people will be developing/testing on their local machines right now? I believe we should be using one common instance, but am not positive.) addons.sugarlabs.org addons-testing.sugarlabs.org addons-devel.sugarlabs.org 2. How do people get access to play with it? (rw privileges in the virtual host dir and access to the mysql db, what else is needed?) Tomeu checked and it seems to be owned by the www-data group rather than the addons group (and it's also not clear how to get added to the addons group). Concrete example: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/256 is an easy bug (text replacement) and I can fix it myself in a jiffy, given the right privs. Can someone walk me through getting those privs / making that commit? 3. If you break the live instance under test, what subset of the instructions on http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/a.s.o must be run (by whom / with what privs) to restore it to its former glory? Answers to all these things will, of course, be documented on the wiki. ;) I'll be on IRC from Catalyst tomorrow looking for people who can help with this... (hi dfarning!) --Mel PS: php/mysql wizards welcomed, and testers will be needed soon! Wade Brainerd wrote: > Awesome, thanks for the straightforward list of tasks Tomeu. > > Perhaps next Saturday the site will be strong enough that the Wellington > testers can do some testing on *it* as well :) > > Cheers, > Wade From simon at schampijer.de Thu Jan 29 08:12:52 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:12:52 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-Developers meeting REMINDER (29 January, 2009 - 14.00 (UTC)) --- irc.freenode.net, #sugar-meeting Message-ID: <4981AB54.9060401@schampijer.de> ===Topics=== a) February the 13th is the due date for our Sucrose 0.83 Release Candidate 1 (DevelopmentTeam/Release/Roadmap#Schedule). Status update on getting Soas out to testers. b) Update DevelopmentTeam/TODO list c) Anything that needs to happen before FOSDEM? See you there, Simon From simon at schampijer.de Thu Jan 29 08:14:34 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:14:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Localization] Exception for 'View Details' option for the object palette in the journal In-Reply-To: References: <49817EB0.9070607@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <4981ABBA.7030407@schampijer.de> Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: > Seems logical enough to me. > +1 > > -sdg- Looks like we all agree - I pushed to sugar git -> may the translation begin ;p Thanks, Simon > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Hi, >> >> this is another little piece that is missing to meet the spec at >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Designs/Journal#04 >> >> The string is new - so no existing strings are effected. >> >> Thanks, >> Simon >> >> [1] http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Release#Feature_freeze >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Localization mailing list >> Localization at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization >> >> > > > From gary at garycmartin.com Thu Jan 29 09:21:17 2009 From: gary at garycmartin.com (Gary C Martin) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:21:17 +0000 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 29 Jan 2009, at 10:02, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Gary C Martin > wrote: >> Cool. >> >> Any tips as to what to do with these 2 on an XO? The only thing >> I've done >> with .img and .crc before is copy-nand from firmware ? is it >> possible to run >> them from a usb stick without wiping nand or effecting the existing >> nand >> install (so we can encourage safe(er) testing of new code)? > > You can use copy-nand if you want to install them on the nand. To > install on a usb stick you can follow the Fedora on XO instruction > (with the .iso Soas image). It should be possible to do it from a XO. > See: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/ > Fedora10_On_XO#Installing_your_SD_card > > It would be good to add this to the Soas wiki page. Let me know if you > have any problems! Thanks Marco (& Daniel), will go sharpen my stick and start to poke... --Gary P.S. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_images_for_USB_disks also looks like an old wiki page of interest that may have some harvestable tips. > Marco From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 10:25:55 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:25:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] moving tickets from dev.l.o to dev.s.o Message-ID: <242851610901290725u2282c1e9w7a085e9ca7fde162@mail.gmail.com> Hi Michael, have heard that you have some of a pixie dust that may allow us to automatically transfer sugar tickets from dev.l.o to dev.s.o. Can you share a bit of it with me? Thanks, Tomeu From walter.bender at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 11:51:39 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:51:39 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2009-01-29 Message-ID: === Sugar Digest === 1. I have a bad habit of losing myself in programing. Not that I am much of programmer these days, but once I start in on a project, I have a hard time attending to things happening around me. I don't regret my decision to use Turtle Art Portfolio for my presentation at LCA (linux.conf.au) in Hobart last week, but I haven't been able to let it go. I spent too much of my time Down Under debugging Python code rather than debating the larger questions facing Sugar Labs. Nonetheless, I did manage to get things working reasonably well for my talk last week. (I cannot seem to find the link to the videos, but they are posted on line somewhere.) The talk itself was not my most inspired. I let myself get bogged down in some some questions at the end regarding human-centric versus learning-centric design. Had I been on top of my game, I would have been a bit more clear with my answers. Thanks to Mike Usmar, who is the force behind the Computer Clubhouse efforts in New Zealand, I had a second (third and fourth) chance to debug both my code and my talk. From the post talk discussions, I think things went better in Wellington and Auckland. I had a chance to meet the wonderful Wellington Testing Group led by Tabitha Roper at the office of Catalyst, Ltd. There were representatives from the ministry of education there as well. It was a good discussion, about pedagogy and the pragmatics of getting things going in the region. The ministry doesn't tell schools what do to, but they can play a role in helping to spread the Sugar meme by supporting teacher workshops and offering credits toward continuing education when teachers work with Sugar. In Auckland, I had a chance to meet students and faculty at the university. Tabitha's father, who coincidently is studying portfolio assessment, had some great feedback?collectively we have a ways to go, but we are progressing and the vector is pointed in the right direction. (I also saw some student work that has good potential as an alternative Journal/portfolio view?a potential Summer of Code project?) I also met with the teachers of an Auckland school. An independent-minded and inspired group, they are going to start a one-to-one program for middle- and high-school students. My one small contribution to their plans was to relay to them a lesson I learned from Carla Monroy Gomez: use the introduction of the computers as a reason to hold a community celebration that draws the parents into the school as stakeholders. A highlight of my trip was the day I spent with Bill Kerr and Tony Forster in Melbourne on my way between Hobart and Auckland. Tony lives in the countryside about 45 minutes outside of the city. We sat and talked, coded, debugged, debated, and ate a delicious barbecue. I have a long list of things that need improvement. It is real pleasure to spend time with people who are both grounded in the day-to-day needs of the classroom and are fluent in the works of the likes of Marvin Minsky. I learned a great deal from some gifted teachers. (Had I not been up to my nose in Python code, I probably would have learned even more.) 2. Speaking of Minsky, I posted his latest essay learning this week (See [http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Education_and_Psychology]) in which he discusses ways in which we can "provide our children with ideas they could use to invent their own theories about themselves." 3. A new a non-profit organization, Squeakland Foundation Inc, will take over from Viewpoints Research as the guardians of Squeak Etoys. The new board includes: Tim Falconer, Kim Rose, Walter Bender, Rita Freudenberg, Kathleen Harness, Marta Voelcker, Scott Wallace, Yoshiki Ohshima, and Milan Zimmerman (See [http://squeakland.org/news/newsletter/web.jsp?id=9]) === Sugar Labs === 4. Gary Martin has generated another SOM from the past week of discussion on the IAEP mailing list (Please see [[:Image:2009-January-17-23-som.jpg|SOM]]). -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From prakhar at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 29 12:15:39 2009 From: prakhar at fedoraproject.org (Prakhar Agarwal) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:45:39 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Activities] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Check your time zones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=1&day=30&year=2009&hour=15&min=0&sec=0&p1=1160 See you all at the meeting! -- Prakhar Agarwal Linux User# 474643 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Prakhar "Life is the greatest teacher" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090129/fddd404d/attachment.htm From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 13:56:06 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:56:06 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] addons.mozilla.org - what needs to be done? In-Reply-To: <4981A5AD.9040109@melchua.com> References: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> <242851610901270410r6693f2c7wc33c9ca479d5dccb@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901270648i568563calc6f511f09d602904@mail.gmail.com> <4981A5AD.9040109@melchua.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Mel Chua wrote: > Ok, I think Tomeu and I caught up tonight and I'm ready to keep pushing this > forward, so... *tinkers with > http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Remora_port* > > Time for the questions. > > 1. There are a few instances of remora running on sunjammer. Which one is > the one under active development/test? (Or is it expected that people will > be developing/testing on their local machines right now? I believe we should > be using one common instance, but am not positive.) > > addons.sugarlabs.org > addons-testing.sugarlabs.org > addons-devel.sugarlabs.org I have been trying to get these simplified this week. Please see http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The_Complicator_0x27_s_Gloves.aspx The master aslo repo is at git://git.sugarlabs.org/slo-addons/mainline.git . addons, addons-testing, addons-devel are running on Sunjammer as the production, testing, and devel branches. Each stage has its own user, addons, addons-testing, and addons-devel, and its own database. > 2. How do people get access to play with it? (rw privileges in the virtual > host dir and access to the mysql db, what else is needed?) Tomeu checked and > it seems to be owned by the www-data group rather than the addons group (and > it's also not clear how to get added to the addons group). We need to ask bernie to look at the permissions and arrange it so that we can give developers access to addons, addons-test, addons-devel. I believe that it will be easy to grant that access. It is beyond my admin-foo. > Concrete example: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/256 is an easy bug (text > replacement) and I can fix it myself in a jiffy, given the right privs. Can > someone walk me through getting those privs / making that commit? > > 3. If you break the live instance under test, what subset of the > instructions on http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/a.s.o must be run > (by whom / with what privs) to restore it to its former glory? 1. delete the instance 2. git clone from master 3. checkout correct branch for the instance 4. svn pull the vendor stuff 5. recreate the tmp dir stuff 6. install the config.ph > Answers to all these things will, of course, be documented on the wiki. ;) > I'll be on IRC from Catalyst tomorrow looking for people who can help with > this... (hi dfarning!) > > --Mel > > PS: php/mysql wizards welcomed, and testers will be needed soon! Jason Woofenden CCed is our resident php wizard. I am not sure how much time he will have to put into the project.... He might need bribing. At this point I believe that tomeu, wadeb, and I have commit access to the repo and tomeu, bernie and I have access to the necessary users on Sunjammer. Status - addons, addons-testing, and addons-devel are all running a code straight from the upstream mozilla tree. Todo 1. Fix permissions. --Bernie? 2. Continue to push original patch upstream to Mozilla. --Jason 3. Tomeu made a set of set of patches that we need to add on at a time to the devel branch. 4. Modify the testing branch so that the ActivityTeam can access the aslo admin web interfaces. This should help allow them to figure out activity work flow. 5. Start hacking. I will be around for another 24 hours. Then I am off the spend the weekend and part of next week at a monastery with a retired COO who as offered to mentor me. While the pay at Sugar Labs is not competitive with market rates;( The opportunity for personal growth are pretty good:) david From michael at laptop.org Thu Jan 29 14:28:08 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:28:08 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] 8.2.1 Release Status - Thursday, Jan. 29, 2008 Message-ID: <20090129192808.GA3043@heat> Folks, I just thought I'd offer some unofficial advice on the state of 8.2.1 for interested listeners: a) In the last several weeks, there has been significant package churn at all levels of the stack including: kernel bootanim bootfw olpc-utils libX11 xkeyboard-config sugar-journal glibc glibc-common as described in more detail by http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/staging-pkgs.html and http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/staging-pkgs.html As a result, we're bottle-necked on QA. b) Some dedicated volunteers -- notably S Page, dsd, TJB, kimquirk, Hal Murray, genesee, tiesj, greebo, Mikus, John Ferlito, and ivazquez (thanks all!) -- have done some fine work getting us unstuck on QA! In particular, their volunteer wifi testing turned up #9222 which dsd thinks he fixed this morning from Paraguay! However, I think that there might be more wireless regressions -- please keep trying to break things with recent staging builds! c) Mitch has worked long and hard on #9045, which was one of the tickets motivating this release! Today, he delivered a new firmware, q2e30, which you should all help test. It's available in staging >= 25 and it needs both serious regression testing, e.g. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/1_hour_smoke_test and some dedicated feature testing according to the test plan laid out by Mitch here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware_security#Multiple-Key_Support (I had so much fun making my own keys last night that I stayed up after an evening out on the town with Henry & friends to help Mitch test this!) d) Somebody needs to provide appropriate activities for our smoke tests (preferably via customization stick) and to make sure that those activities are properly listed on the usual laptop.org wiki pages. Help wanted! Wade -- is this something that your new activity team would like to help with? e) In conclusion, 8.2.1 seems to me to have been put back on track by the unrivaled commitment of you, our dedicated Friends in Testing. Thanks! Regards, Michael (P.S. - Thanks also to Chris for keeping things rolling by wrangling builds and tickets at all hours of the day.) :) (P.P.S. - If you're looking for something to test this week, please try out my refreshed http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Friends_in_testing instructions!) From sj at laptop.org Thu Jan 29 14:37:24 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:37:24 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Activities] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <5396c0d10901281530h3c60155ew968fcfa6d22d07bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> <5396c0d10901281530h3c60155ew968fcfa6d22d07bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901291137l33f6294al9ef8c08ff12c103f@mail.gmail.com> I should add - with an in-person meeting in Cambridge http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/olpc-open/2009-January/001318.html People who will be focused on the activities chat but want to get together in person are welcome. SJ On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > Note: there will also be a global volunteering meeting at the same > time in #olpc from 3-5, and we will drop in and join for some of the > activity discussion. > > SJ > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this >> Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings >> All are encouraged to attend. I will be especially happy to see the >> following kinds of people well represented: >> - Current and former activity developers, maintainers, packagers, testers! >> - Kind souls willing to help slog through and categorize the hundreds of >> Sugar activities at >> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/ActivityStatus. >> - Deployment representatives who need activities & activity features >> yesterday. >> - G1G1 participants who want to get involved. >> - Representatives from the other SL teams. >> Hope to see you there, >> -Wade >> _______________________________________________ >> Activities mailing list >> Activities at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/activities >> >> > From sj at laptop.org Thu Jan 29 14:40:18 2009 From: sj at laptop.org (Samuel Klein) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:40:18 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] ActivityTeam inaugural meeting In-Reply-To: <1233195630.6314.40.camel@hitman> References: <7087c32a0901281517x46376243xc4ae3d6fe0fe0e3a@mail.gmail.com> <1233195630.6314.40.camel@hitman> Message-ID: <5396c0d10901291140m499d578dpb14078938724f7ff@mail.gmail.com> In that vein, I'd love for someone to document how to add new graph-reviewing, labelling, and import/export options to Measure. Using graphs one has made, or looking at a history of graphs made and data gathered, is hard -- not necc. easy enough to use in an ongoing science experiment. --SJ On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: > On Wed, 2009-01-28 at 18:17 -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> >> Please join us for the first Sugar Labs ActivityTeam IRC meeting this >> Friday, 3PM EST in #sugar-meeting on FreeNode. >> >> >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings >> >> > > Wade, great idea! I would love to attend but unfortunately 3 PM EST > translates to 2 AM Saturday morning. > > I do have an item to add to the agenda, which you and I have discussed > previously. > > I would love for someone on the activityTeam to document how to easily > add new instruments to TamTam. I have added this as a High-impact task > on the ToDo List > > We do have a Nepali volunteer Vrishank Khanal who is trying to figure > this out. Vrishank is brand-new to linux, programming, and open-source > so adding instruments to TamTam may be beyond his current abilities if > the task requires C Programming and/or CSound scripting. He has > contacted Jean Piche. Let's hope he hears back soon. > > > -- > Bryan W. Berry > Technology Director > OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > From solutiongrove at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 17:45:04 2009 From: solutiongrove at gmail.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:45:04 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) In-Reply-To: References: <3c866f940901281203s5e719cb2l2b1e1f49bd962ec7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, How is "Forms" discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is that a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? Thanks, Caroline PS Awesome videos! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Caryl Bigenho Date: 2009/1/29 Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) To: OLPC Support Gang , Developers List Hi... Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the XOs in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, but someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students are doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl Caryl > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 > From: geirea at gmail.com > To: olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org > Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay > > Estimados: > > En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su > nombre, su alias es JUCL) public? dos videos con una presentaci?n del > uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me > pareci? muy bueno y me pareci? que deb?a ser conocido por mucha gente. > Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer > el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qu? es lo que pasa en > los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. > > Entonces le puse subt?tulos en ingl?s y los publiqu? aqu?: > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl > > ?Qu? les parece? Algunos tramos no entend?a bien lo que dec?an y qued? > como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos ser? > bienvenida. > > Saludos, > > Gabriel > _______________________________________________ > Lista olpc-Sur > olpc-Sur at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list Devel at lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090129/f97ad02e/attachment.htm From geirea at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 18:19:22 2009 From: geirea at gmail.com (Gabriel Eirea) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:19:22 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) In-Reply-To: References: <3c866f940901281203s5e719cb2l2b1e1f49bd962ec7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c866f940901291519t7061eba8g5c6f2c7193705335@mail.gmail.com> They use forms in Google Docs. (At least that's what I understood.) Regards, Gabriel 2009/1/29 Caroline Meeks : > Hi, > > How is "Forms" discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is that > a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? > > Thanks, > Caroline > > > PS Awesome videos! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Caryl Bigenho > Date: 2009/1/29 > Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) > To: OLPC Support Gang , Developers > List > > > Hi... > > Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the XOs > in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, but > someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of > the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). > > There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in > constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students are > doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, > how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the > teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. > > The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic > too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. > > This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl > > > Caryl > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 >> From: geirea at gmail.com >> To: olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org >> Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay >> >> Estimados: >> >> En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su >> nombre, su alias es JUCL) public? dos videos con una presentaci?n del >> uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me >> pareci? muy bueno y me pareci? que deb?a ser conocido por mucha gente. >> Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer >> el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qu? es lo que pasa en >> los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. >> >> Entonces le puse subt?tulos en ingl?s y los publiqu? aqu?: >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl >> >> ?Qu? les parece? Algunos tramos no entend?a bien lo que dec?an y qued? >> como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos ser? >> bienvenida. >> >> Saludos, >> >> Gabriel >> _______________________________________________ >> Lista olpc-Sur >> olpc-Sur at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From caroline at solutiongrove.com Thu Jan 29 18:28:37 2009 From: caroline at solutiongrove.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:28:37 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) In-Reply-To: <3c866f940901291519t7061eba8g5c6f2c7193705335@mail.gmail.com> References: <3c866f940901281203s5e719cb2l2b1e1f49bd962ec7@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901291519t7061eba8g5c6f2c7193705335@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I wonder if they are using google gears for offline usage or whether the kids are filling them in when connected to the internet. Caroline On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > They use forms in Google Docs. (At least that's what I understood.) > > Regards, > > Gabriel > > 2009/1/29 Caroline Meeks : > > Hi, > > > > How is "Forms" discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is > that > > a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? > > > > Thanks, > > Caroline > > > > > > PS Awesome videos! > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Caryl Bigenho > > Date: 2009/1/29 > > Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) > > To: OLPC Support Gang , > Developers > > List > > > > > > Hi... > > > > Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the > XOs > > in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, > but > > someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of > > the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). > > > > There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in > > constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students > are > > doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, > > how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the > > teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. > > > > The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic > > too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. > > > > This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! > > > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz > > > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl > > > > > > Caryl > > > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 > >> From: geirea at gmail.com > >> To: olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org > >> Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay > >> > >> Estimados: > >> > >> En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su > >> nombre, su alias es JUCL) public? dos videos con una presentaci?n del > >> uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me > >> pareci? muy bueno y me pareci? que deb?a ser conocido por mucha gente. > >> Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer > >> el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qu? es lo que pasa en > >> los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. > >> > >> Entonces le puse subt?tulos en ingl?s y los publiqu? aqu?: > >> > >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz > >> > >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl > >> > >> ?Qu? les parece? Algunos tramos no entend?a bien lo que dec?an y qued? > >> como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos ser? > >> bienvenida. > >> > >> Saludos, > >> > >> Gabriel > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lista olpc-Sur > >> olpc-Sur at lists.laptop.org > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Devel mailing list > > Devel at lists.laptop.org > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Caroline Meeks > > Solution Grove > > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > > > 617-500-3488 - Office > > 505-213-3268 - Fax > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090129/ed9fd226/attachment.htm From dfarning at sugarlabs.org Thu Jan 29 20:36:16 2009 From: dfarning at sugarlabs.org (David Farning) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:36:16 +1800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] addons.mozilla.org - what needs to be done? In-Reply-To: References: <4979B6A4.5060703@melchua.com> <242851610901270410r6693f2c7wc33c9ca479d5dccb@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901270648i568563calc6f511f09d602904@mail.gmail.com> <4981A5AD.9040109@melchua.com> Message-ID: TODO #3 I have posted the upstream mozilla patch and tomeu's patchset at http://people.sugarlabs.org/dfarning/aslo_patches/ They did not apply cleanly against the devel because we rebased from mozilla's svn. Cleaning up and applying these patches is a great way to get started hacking aslo:) david On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:56 PM, David Farning wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Mel Chua wrote: >> Ok, I think Tomeu and I caught up tonight and I'm ready to keep pushing this >> forward, so... *tinkers with >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Remora_port* >> >> Time for the questions. >> >> 1. There are a few instances of remora running on sunjammer. Which one is >> the one under active development/test? (Or is it expected that people will >> be developing/testing on their local machines right now? I believe we should >> be using one common instance, but am not positive.) >> >> addons.sugarlabs.org >> addons-testing.sugarlabs.org >> addons-devel.sugarlabs.org > > I have been trying to get these simplified this week. Please see > http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The_Complicator_0x27_s_Gloves.aspx > > The master aslo repo is at git://git.sugarlabs.org/slo-addons/mainline.git . > > addons, addons-testing, addons-devel are running on Sunjammer as the > production, testing, and devel branches. > > Each stage has its own user, addons, addons-testing, and addons-devel, > and its own database. > >> 2. How do people get access to play with it? (rw privileges in the virtual >> host dir and access to the mysql db, what else is needed?) Tomeu checked and >> it seems to be owned by the www-data group rather than the addons group (and >> it's also not clear how to get added to the addons group). > > We need to ask bernie to look at the permissions and arrange it so > that we can give developers access to addons, addons-test, > addons-devel. I believe that it will be easy to grant that access. > It is beyond my admin-foo. > >> Concrete example: http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/256 is an easy bug (text >> replacement) and I can fix it myself in a jiffy, given the right privs. Can >> someone walk me through getting those privs / making that commit? >> >> 3. If you break the live instance under test, what subset of the >> instructions on http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/a.s.o must be run >> (by whom / with what privs) to restore it to its former glory? > > 1. delete the instance > 2. git clone from master > 3. checkout correct branch for the instance > 4. svn pull the vendor stuff > 5. recreate the tmp dir stuff > 6. install the config.ph > >> Answers to all these things will, of course, be documented on the wiki. ;) >> I'll be on IRC from Catalyst tomorrow looking for people who can help with >> this... (hi dfarning!) >> >> --Mel >> >> PS: php/mysql wizards welcomed, and testers will be needed soon! > > Jason Woofenden CCed is our resident php wizard. I am not sure how > much time he will have to put into the project.... He might need > bribing. > > At this point I believe that tomeu, wadeb, and I have commit access to > the repo and tomeu, bernie and I have access to the necessary users on > Sunjammer. > > Status - addons, addons-testing, and addons-devel are all running a > code straight from the upstream mozilla tree. > > Todo > 1. Fix permissions. --Bernie? > > 2. Continue to push original patch upstream to Mozilla. --Jason > > 3. Tomeu made a set of set of patches that we need to add on at a > time to the devel branch. > > 4. Modify the testing branch so that the ActivityTeam can access the > aslo admin web interfaces. This should help allow them to figure out > activity work flow. > > 5. Start hacking. > > I will be around for another 24 hours. Then I am off the spend the > weekend and part of next week at a monastery with a retired COO who as > offered to mentor me. While the pay at Sugar Labs is not competitive > with market rates;( The opportunity for personal growth are pretty > good:) > > david > From walter.bender at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 21:47:08 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:47:08 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice Message-ID: I've been in discussion with Bill Kerr and Tony Forster about how to make it easier for Sugar users to dig a bit deeper into code. Tony has a nice blog entry on the topic here: http://tonyforster.blogspot.com/ (1) A simple idea I am exploring are to allow Turtle Art users to enter simple Python commands directly into a block, as per http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Ta-sin.png (2) I am also planning to add a block that calls a "nop" internally as an invitation to have new functionality added directly into the activity without the additional overhead of having to deal with managing all of the UI elements associated with adding blocks. (Perhaps View Source will save just that block to the Journal for editing in Pippy.) But here is my question: My code for #1 above is: def myfunc(lc, f, x): myf = "def f(x): return " + f userdefined = {} try: exec myf in globals(), userdefined except: raise logoerror("#syntaxerror") return userdefined.values()[0](x) What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting arbitrary functions to execute within TA. I can imagine that Rainbow would be of some protection here, but are there other things I can do to restrict, say to the math module, the functions available. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu Thu Jan 29 21:59:55 2009 From: bmschwar at fas.harvard.edu (Benjamin M. Schwartz) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:59:55 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49826D2B.4030108@fas.harvard.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Walter Bender wrote: > (1) A simple idea I am exploring are to allow Turtle Art users to > enter simple Python commands directly into a block, as per > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Ta-sin.png Beautiful. > But here is my question: > > My code for #1 above is: > > def myfunc(lc, f, x): > myf = "def f(x): return " + f > userdefined = {} > try: > exec myf in globals(), userdefined > except: > raise logoerror("#syntaxerror") > return userdefined.values()[0](x) > > What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting > arbitrary functions to execute within TA. Don't worry about it. Three reasons: 1. You're right. Rainbow's protections here are strong. The user-modified code can neither read nor write nor overwrite the contents of the Journal, for example. There are lots of other bad things it could do, like fill the disk with junk, break the TurtleArt icons so that TurtleArt won't start, or flood the network, but 2. the user is writing this code themselves. They'd have to go to great lengths, just to (very temporarily) break their own machine. Besides, 3. the remaining issues in (1) should be fixed inside Rainbow, rather than ineffectually patched by each Activity. - --Ben -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmCbSsACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQJ0QCfVxkCYZiDYIGp7m68cCBWoyRu fwsAoI14YV8XDcDeA1lO5WC2ZbUVKwp0 =mNfY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From grantbow at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 02:20:02 2009 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:20:02 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Missing Keyboard input on fresh Jhbuild In-Reply-To: References: <317e39f0901282013w12eaed9aj1922375fb8095345@mail.gmail.com> <242851610901290140p22bfcb35r9294bb972c6b1ef2@mail.gmail.com> <317e39f0901290348j69ee1eeeh1b1e2e37a63b1322@mail.gmail.com> <317e39f0901290402r4f136910r90e56c3a66e4ea7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <317e39f0901292320h7ee3083bj9c15cce6d986dfe8@mail.gmail.com> Many thanks to Tomeu for working with me on IRC to track this down. I got `./sugar-jhbuild run` working after I `unset XKEYSYMDB` in .bashrc which was useful for very old motif applications before I upgraded X a couple times. Morgan, sugar-emulator seems to work too, thanks! I am not sure I would have figured that out since there is no mention of this command in the file /usr/share/doc/sugar/README in the 0.82.0-1ubuntu3 version of the sugar package. The two may conflict a little so I'll just use one or the other. Resetting brings back all the functionality by running `rm -rf ~/.sugar` Thanks! -- Grant Bowman On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 14:02, Grant Bowman wrote: >> Oops, sample errors from http://pastebin.be/16354 > > Run sugar-emulator, not sugar. > > Regards > Morgan > From morgan.collett at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 03:38:33 2009 From: morgan.collett at gmail.com (Morgan Collett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:38:33 +0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: <49826D2B.4030108@fas.harvard.edu> References: <49826D2B.4030108@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 04:59, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Walter Bender wrote: >> (1) A simple idea I am exploring are to allow Turtle Art users to >> enter simple Python commands directly into a block, as per >> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Ta-sin.png > > Beautiful. > >> But here is my question: >> >> My code for #1 above is: >> >> def myfunc(lc, f, x): >> myf = "def f(x): return " + f >> userdefined = {} >> try: >> exec myf in globals(), userdefined >> except: >> raise logoerror("#syntaxerror") >> return userdefined.values()[0](x) >> >> What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting >> arbitrary functions to execute within TA. > > Don't worry about it. Three reasons: > > 1. You're right. Rainbow's protections here are strong. The > user-modified code can neither read nor write nor overwrite the contents > of the Journal, for example. There are lots of other bad things it could > do, like fill the disk with junk, break the TurtleArt icons so that > TurtleArt won't start, or flood the network, but > > 2. the user is writing this code themselves. They'd have to go to great > lengths, just to (very temporarily) break their own machine. Besides, > > 3. the remaining issues in (1) should be fixed inside Rainbow, rather > than ineffectually patched by each Activity. Pippy already lets them write and run arbitrary code in the UI. If they can run Terminal, they can write and run arbitrary code. Regards Morgan From grantbow at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 03:53:48 2009 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:53:48 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client Message-ID: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/xomail is the best summary of email client writing to date but the code for sweetmail has little documentation so far and few commits. I hope Shikhar can speak a bit more about it's status. -- Grant Bowman On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Hi, > > How is "Forms" discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is that > a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? > > Thanks, > Caroline > > > PS Awesome videos! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Caryl Bigenho > Date: 2009/1/29 > Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) > To: OLPC Support Gang , Developers > List > > > Hi... > > Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the XOs > in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, but > someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of > the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). > > There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in > constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students are > doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, > how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the > teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. > > The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic > too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. > > This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl > > > Caryl > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 >> From: geirea at gmail.com >> To: olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org >> Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay >> >> Estimados: >> >> En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su >> nombre, su alias es JUCL) public? dos videos con una presentaci?n del >> uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me >> pareci? muy bueno y me pareci? que deb?a ser conocido por mucha gente. >> Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer >> el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qu? es lo que pasa en >> los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. >> >> Entonces le puse subt?tulos en ingl?s y los publiqu? aqu?: >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl >> >> ?Qu? les parece? Algunos tramos no entend?a bien lo que dec?an y qued? >> como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos ser? >> bienvenida. >> >> Saludos, >> >> Gabriel >> _______________________________________________ >> Lista olpc-Sur >> olpc-Sur at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 30 04:05:38 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:05:38 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: References: <49826D2B.4030108@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <242851610901300105t1c1eeb45hd78e0014ee841a7b@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 09:38, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 04:59, Benjamin M. Schwartz > wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Walter Bender wrote: >>> (1) A simple idea I am exploring are to allow Turtle Art users to >>> enter simple Python commands directly into a block, as per >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Ta-sin.png >> >> Beautiful. >> >>> But here is my question: >>> >>> My code for #1 above is: >>> >>> def myfunc(lc, f, x): >>> myf = "def f(x): return " + f >>> userdefined = {} >>> try: >>> exec myf in globals(), userdefined >>> except: >>> raise logoerror("#syntaxerror") >>> return userdefined.values()[0](x) >>> >>> What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting >>> arbitrary functions to execute within TA. >> >> Don't worry about it. Three reasons: >> >> 1. You're right. Rainbow's protections here are strong. The >> user-modified code can neither read nor write nor overwrite the contents >> of the Journal, for example. There are lots of other bad things it could >> do, like fill the disk with junk, break the TurtleArt icons so that >> TurtleArt won't start, or flood the network, but >> >> 2. the user is writing this code themselves. They'd have to go to great >> lengths, just to (very temporarily) break their own machine. Besides, >> >> 3. the remaining issues in (1) should be fixed inside Rainbow, rather >> than ineffectually patched by each Activity. > > Pippy already lets them write and run arbitrary code in the UI. > > If they can run Terminal, they can write and run arbitrary code. I think the issue isn't the user being tricked into writing code that may go against his interests, but clicking on a shared turtle art instance and getting something bad happen without being able (being given enough tools) to protect against it. AFAIK, Rainbow isn't yet restricting access to the datastore, and more over, isn't working on other platforms than the XO. So for the time being, activity authors may need to think about the consequences of letting arbitrary code run on machines where the user may not know the consequences. Regards, Tomeu From bert at freudenbergs.de Fri Jan 30 04:09:29 2009 From: bert at freudenbergs.de (Bert Freudenberg) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:09:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: References: <49826D2B.4030108@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: On 30.01.2009, at 09:38, Morgan Collett wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 04:59, Benjamin M. Schwartz > wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Walter Bender wrote: >>> (1) A simple idea I am exploring are to allow Turtle Art users to >>> enter simple Python commands directly into a block, as per >>> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Ta-sin.png >> >> Beautiful. >> >>> But here is my question: >>> >>> My code for #1 above is: >>> >>> def myfunc(lc, f, x): >>> myf = "def f(x): return " + f >>> userdefined = {} >>> try: >>> exec myf in globals(), userdefined >>> except: >>> raise logoerror("#syntaxerror") >>> return userdefined.values()[0](x) >>> >>> What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting >>> arbitrary functions to execute within TA. >> >> Don't worry about it. Three reasons: >> >> 1. You're right. Rainbow's protections here are strong. The >> user-modified code can neither read nor write nor overwrite the >> contents >> of the Journal, for example. There are lots of other bad things it >> could >> do, like fill the disk with junk, break the TurtleArt icons so that >> TurtleArt won't start, or flood the network, but >> >> 2. the user is writing this code themselves. They'd have to go to >> great >> lengths, just to (very temporarily) break their own machine. >> Besides, >> >> 3. the remaining issues in (1) should be fixed inside Rainbow, >> rather >> than ineffectually patched by each Activity. > > Pippy already lets them write and run arbitrary code in the UI. > > If they can run Terminal, they can write and run arbitrary code. This is different because Terminal is not protected by Rainbow. And even super user rights are readily available there. User code in an activity is more dangerous because it is more easily shared between users. Now that we can effortlessly send Journal entries to other users, the user-code inside these entries could do considerable harm. While direct file access is disallowed by Rainbow, the datastore API is still completely unprotected. One could easily write some code into the extended TurtleArt tile that deletes all entries in the Journal, or sends them to a server. Rainbow was designed to counter those attacks but it's not implemented yet afaik. And for Sugar running on other Linux distros I think Rainbow is not even supported, is it? So there an activity can access or delete all the user's files. Which is the reason that the Squeak VM has a sandbox mode that limits file access for Etoys projects. Unfortunately this appears to be infeasible for the Python VM which has a gazillion of modules that each would have to be sandboxed. But maybe (as Walter suggested) there was a limit on the imports you could do? - Bert - From geirea at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 07:03:27 2009 From: geirea at gmail.com (Gabriel Eirea) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:03:27 -0200 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3c866f940901300403k2df21e97y2d3b04fc114af5c3@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/30 Grant Bowman : > Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from > olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the > original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are > used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development > perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. > As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." > > Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? > The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to > be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, > working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a > web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. That's exactly what I understood from their description. The teacher sends an email with an attachment. The children download it with gmail at the school and store the attachment in the Journal. Then they take it home, work on it, and when they return to school they send their work to the teacher using gmail again. An email activity with replication or however it is called (making a local copy of the emails and synchronizing automatically with the server whenever there is connectivity), would be very useful so they are not limited to attachments only. Regards, Gabriel From shikhar at schmizz.net Fri Jan 30 08:30:26 2009 From: shikhar at schmizz.net (Shikhar) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:30:26 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498300F2.7010807@schmizz.net> On 01/30/2009 09:53 AM, Grant Bowman wrote: > Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from > olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the > original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are > used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development > perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. > As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." > > Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? > The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to > be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, > working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a > web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/xomail is the best summary of email > client writing to date but the code for sweetmail has little > documentation so far and few commits. I hope Shikhar can speak a bit > more about it's status. It's status is basically that it needs a few weeks of full time work on it (at least for me..) before it can really work as an email activity. I intended to do that this January but paid work came along. I still want to make it happen though, but it'll happen alongside school now, which is whenever I get time from my thesis :-) The wiki page talks of using Tinymail; that did not work out however because the Python bindings for Tinymail were incomplete. Right now it's using very rudimentary code relying on poplib and smtplib and I would like to use twisted instead. Last screenshot there is -- from last summer -- http://wiki.laptop.org/images/0/0e/Xomail_msglist.png Since there is a lot of interest I welcome anyone else to pickup where I left. From the git.sl.o sweetmail repo, I would say only the code in model/ is worth keeping, the rest is mainly me getting my toes wet in PyGTK Shikhar > > -- Grant Bowman > > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: >> Hi, >> >> How is "Forms" discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is that >> a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? >> >> Thanks, >> Caroline >> >> >> PS Awesome videos! >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Caryl Bigenho >> Date: 2009/1/29 >> Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) >> To: OLPC Support Gang, Developers >> List >> >> >> Hi... >> >> Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the XOs >> in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, but >> someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of >> the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). >> >> There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in >> constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students are >> doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, >> how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the >> teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. >> >> The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic >> too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. >> >> This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl >> >> >> Caryl >> >>> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 >>> From: geirea at gmail.com >>> To: olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org >>> Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay >>> >>> Estimados: >>> >>> En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su >>> nombre, su alias es JUCL) public? dos videos con una presentaci?n del >>> uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me >>> pareci? muy bueno y me pareci? que deb?a ser conocido por mucha gente. >>> Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer >>> el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qu? es lo que pasa en >>> los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. >>> >>> Entonces le puse subt?tulos en ingl?s y los publiqu? aqu?: >>> >>> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz >>> >>> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl >>> >>> ?Qu? les parece? Algunos tramos no entend?a bien lo que dec?an y qued? >>> como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos ser? >>> bienvenida. >>> >>> Saludos, >>> >>> Gabriel >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lista olpc-Sur >>> olpc-Sur at lists.laptop.org >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur >> _______________________________________________ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Caroline Meeks >> Solution Grove >> Caroline at SolutionGrove.com >> >> 617-500-3488 - Office >> 505-213-3268 - Fax >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > From krstic at solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu Fri Jan 30 13:40:04 2009 From: krstic at solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu (=?UTF-8?Q?Ivan_Krsti=C4=87?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:40:04 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: References: <49826D2B.4030108@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <79A705ED-0E55-4C67-9F54-52CEE3276A50@solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu> On Jan 30, 2009, at 4:09 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > maybe (as Walter suggested) there was a limit on the imports you could > do? Not possible, and won't be until Brett Cannon's pure-Python import facility replaces the existing C-based import system. That work just landed into 3.0 trunk a week ago or so and is mostly complete, but I don't believe a concrete date/release is known for making it the default. -- Ivan Krsti? | http://radian.org From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 14:11:01 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:11:01 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all the feedback. Not sure how best to proceed, but here is a somewhat related question. I'd like to have on of my modules in TA be editable by Pippy. This is in support of #2 below. The idea would be to have one block whose code is in a separate .py that is loaded from the Journal as a saved Pippy project. This will present the same security risks as #1. My question is more mundane this time: how do I reference actually module that is in, for example, the instance directory. (I am at the edge of my Python knowledge.) -walter On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > I've been in discussion with Bill Kerr and Tony Forster about how to > make it easier for Sugar users to dig a bit deeper into code. Tony has > a nice blog entry on the topic here: http://tonyforster.blogspot.com/ > > (1) A simple idea I am exploring are to allow Turtle Art users to > enter simple Python commands directly into a block, as per > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Ta-sin.png > > (2) I am also planning to add a block that calls a "nop" internally as > an invitation to have new functionality added directly into the > activity without the additional overhead of having to deal with > managing all of the UI elements associated with adding blocks. > (Perhaps View Source will save just that block to the Journal for > editing in Pippy.) > > But here is my question: > > My code for #1 above is: > > def myfunc(lc, f, x): > myf = "def f(x): return " + f > userdefined = {} > try: > exec myf in globals(), userdefined > except: > raise logoerror("#syntaxerror") > return userdefined.values()[0](x) > > What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting > arbitrary functions to execute within TA. I can imagine that Rainbow > would be of some protection here, but are there other things I can do > to restrict, say to the math module, the functions available. > > -walter > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From gdk at redhat.com Fri Jan 30 14:46:48 2009 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg Dekoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:46:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM Message-ID: So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the Fedora booth at FOSDEM. --g -- Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! [[ http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Exchange_Registry ]] From michael at laptop.org Fri Jan 30 15:54:15 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:54:15 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] A small request. Message-ID: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> Dear Sugar team, I've been very confused (and frankly, significantly angered) by recent remarks that I've encountered both in person (e.g. from Bernie) and in #sugar (e.g. from Simon and Tomeu) about how sugar-related folk are thinking about the issue of mass activity installation and update. Consequently, I'd find it really helpful if we could sit down, lay out all the agreed facts, disagreements, and desires, and then figure out a mutually agreeable plan for the future. In order to prepare for that discussion, though, I thought I'd pass along a pair of perceptions that I have formed based on how I've observed people attempting to address the issue so far. Feel free to dispute, request clarification, or best, amplify in reply as you see fit. 1) I have observed minimal respect for or perhaps desire to work together in spite of people's legitimately varying priorities, expertise, and imperatives. For example -- notice how much divergence there is within this selection of things that various people seem to be /most/ concerned with?: a) disputing the extent to which sugar needs to care about automatic mass activity installation / update b) grumbling about who might have to maintain code that solves the problem or about the possiblity of having to touch code written in a style different than their preferred style c) using a sane protocol that, e.g. * permits competing interoperable front and back ends, * is bandwidth efficient * supports caching, redirection, or overlays * server-less or server-based usage, etc. * works for all end users d) using technology X to provide a specific experience to a tiny slice of the users who are going to have to interact with any system (or with the absence of a system) that we might provide This divergence of attention is never going to go away, folks. We need to get over it and get on with life, recognizant of the fact that most of our biggest dreams /cannot/ be accomplished unless we become a bit more willing to help each other to accomplish end goals that we, personally, don't care so strongly about but which we know matter to one another. 2) Pursuant to the previous observation, I really think that various central people need to start doing their homework about what motivates their compatriots, what demotivates them, and (most relevant for the activity updater arguments), /why/ those compatriots made the decisions that they made in the past, and /how/ they'd like to be involved in revisiting decisions which are currently perceived as holding up progress. Finally, please understand that I have no doubt that I'm as guilty as anyone of some of the sins that I've described above. Consequently, if you think that's the case, please feel encouraged to approach me about the problem so that we can search for some reasonable compromise which leaves each of us less frustrated with the other. Regards, Michael From cscott at laptop.org Fri Jan 30 16:01:59 2009 From: cscott at laptop.org (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:01:59 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] A small request. In-Reply-To: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> References: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > 2) Pursuant to the previous observation, I really think that various > central people need to start doing their homework about what motivates > their compatriots, what demotivates them, and (most relevant for the > activity updater arguments), /why/ those compatriots made the decisions > that they made in the past, and /how/ they'd like to be involved in > revisiting decisions which are currently perceived as holding up progress. I don't know if I'm involved by reference here, but for ease of collaboration I'd like to mention that, although I'm logged in to #devel fairly regularly, I am not reading every message on the mailing lists or religiously reading backlogs of irc chats, nor am I reading all of my trac-spam. If people have specific things they'd like to discuss, I appreciate being individually cc'ed on the email; that ensures that it stands out from the huge volume of other messages in my mailbox. Once I accept another job, my olpc messages will likely get shunted to a folder by default, and it will be even more important to cc me individually if you'd like comment. Thanks. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) From sverma at sfsu.edu Fri Jan 30 16:14:27 2009 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:14:27 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [support-gang] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5fb387c70901301314i63feca3cn4402faa7d57cf478@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Caryl Bigenho wrote: > Hi... > > Here is more good stuff from Uruguay. These anecdotes were collected from > teachers at a school for developmentally challenged children in Uruguay at a > fair they had for a number of schools participating in Project Ceibal (OLPC > in Uruguay). They were originally posted on a blog in Spanish which I will > list below, but here is where you can find a machine translation into > English on the Project Ceibal blog site: > > http://olpc-ceibal.blogspot.com/2009/01/anecdotes-of-plan-ceibal-in-durazno.html > > Caryl > > The original blog in Spanish can be found at: > > http://www.blogedu-rosamel.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > support-gang mailing list > support-gang at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang > > Wow! These anecdotes are terrific! Very encouraging. Thanks for the link, Caryl! cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From david.cabo at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 17:07:51 2009 From: david.cabo at gmail.com (David Cabo) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:07:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: <3c866f940901300403k2df21e97y2d3b04fc114af5c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901300403k2df21e97y2d3b04fc114af5c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ee4c0160901301407t5a88413bx2f926e66db5f22cd@mail.gmail.com> What's the current status of Gears on the XO? Can it be added to Browser? I remember someone started working on it a few months ago, but unfortunately I don't know if they were successful. The reason I'm asking is that GMail is currently rolling out offline support, although it's disabled by default at the moment: http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-in-labs-offline-gmail.html Regards, /david On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > 2009/1/30 Grant Bowman : > > Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from > > olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the > > original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are > > used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development > > perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. > > As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." > > > > Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? > > The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to > > be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, > > working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a > > web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. > > That's exactly what I understood from their description. The teacher > sends an email with an attachment. The children download it with gmail > at the school and store the attachment in the Journal. Then they take > it home, work on it, and when they return to school they send their > work to the teacher using gmail again. > > An email activity with replication or however it is called (making a > local copy of the emails and synchronizing automatically with the > server whenever there is connectivity), would be very useful so they > are not limited to attachments only. > > Regards, > > Gabriel > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090130/cc676bba/attachment.htm From prakhar at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 30 17:09:19 2009 From: prakhar at fedoraproject.org (Prakhar Agarwal) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 03:39:19 +0530 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SugarLabs Meeting Log- 30th January, 2009 Message-ID: Hey guys, We had our first ActivityTeam meeting today. Please find the log here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Meetings#Logs It was quickly followed by Chris Ball's idea listed here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Quiz I encourage everyone to join us in action. Cheers! -- Prakhar Agarwal Linux User# 474643 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Prakhar "Life is the greatest teacher" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090131/7cdda44e/attachment.htm From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 17:44:58 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:44:58 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids In-Reply-To: <20090130223803.GA15121@us.netrek.org> References: <20090130223803.GA15121@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: Turtle Art portfolio, which will become the new Turtle Art, has a label block. -walter On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:38 PM, James Cameron wrote: > Ow! TurtleArt needs a way to make letters. The method the student used > was amazing, but did he really have to do it that way? ;-) At least he > won. > > -- > James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From walter.bender at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 17:45:32 2009 From: walter.bender at gmail.com (Walter Bender) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:45:32 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids In-Reply-To: References: <20090130223803.GA15121@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: that said, it is an interesting exercise to try drawing letters with the Turtle. -walter On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > Turtle Art portfolio, which will become the new Turtle Art, has a label block. > > -walter > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:38 PM, James Cameron wrote: >> Ow! TurtleArt needs a way to make letters. The method the student used >> was amazing, but did he really have to do it that way? ;-) At least he >> won. >> >> -- >> James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Fri Jan 30 18:02:55 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:02:55 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: > > So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want > to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the > Fedora booth at FOSDEM. The latest known to work is: http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it contains and if it's tested. Marco From solutiongrove at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 22:06:14 2009 From: solutiongrove at gmail.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:06:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: <4ee4c0160901301407t5a88413bx2f926e66db5f22cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901300403k2df21e97y2d3b04fc114af5c3@mail.gmail.com> <4ee4c0160901301407t5a88413bx2f926e66db5f22cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think Tony Anderson in Nepal is working on it. On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, David Cabo wrote: > What's the current status of Gears on the XO? Can it be added to Browser? > I remember someone started working on it a few months ago, but unfortunately > I don't know if they were successful. > > The reason I'm asking is that GMail is currently rolling out offline > support, although it's disabled by default at the moment: > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-in-labs-offline-gmail.html > > Regards, > > /david > > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Gabriel Eirea wrote: > >> 2009/1/30 Grant Bowman : >> > Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from >> > olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the >> > original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are >> > used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development >> > perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. >> > As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." >> > >> > Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? >> > The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to >> > be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, >> > working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a >> > web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. >> >> That's exactly what I understood from their description. The teacher >> sends an email with an attachment. The children download it with gmail >> at the school and store the attachment in the Journal. Then they take >> it home, work on it, and when they return to school they send their >> work to the teacher using gmail again. >> >> An email activity with replication or however it is called (making a >> local copy of the emails and synchronizing automatically with the >> server whenever there is connectivity), would be very useful so they >> are not limited to attachments only. >> >> Regards, >> >> Gabriel >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090130/12e2d11d/attachment.htm From tony_anderson at usa.net Fri Jan 30 22:18:29 2009 From: tony_anderson at usa.net (Tony Anderson) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 22:18:29 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: References: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901300403k2df21e97y2d3b04fc114af5c3@mail.gmail.com> <4ee4c0160901301407t5a88413bx2f926e66db5f22cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4983C305.50606@usa.net> Hi, OLENepal is using Firefox (specifically, the Firefox Sugar Activity v6). Gears works as a normal plugin. The main thing to watch out for is Rainbow. We set up Firefox with permissions.info to provide a consistent uid. Your situation may be much easier than ours, we are using Firefox to run Flash animations and to support offline Moodle (where Gears comes in). If you have problems, the folks at OLENepal may be able to help (contact: Bryan Berry ). Tony Caroline Meeks wrote: > I think Tony Anderson in Nepal is working on it. > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, David Cabo > wrote: > > What's the current status of Gears on the XO? Can it be added to > Browser? I remember someone started working on it a few months ago, > but unfortunately I don't know if they were successful. > > The reason I'm asking is that GMail is currently rolling out > offline support, although it's disabled by default at the moment: > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-in-labs-offline-gmail.html > > Regards, > > /david > > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Gabriel Eirea > wrote: > > 2009/1/30 Grant Bowman >: > > Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) > from > > olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the > > original email mentions, developers don't always know how > they are > > used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development > > perspective exactly how they are working with email in their > class. > > As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." > > > > Are they using a web based email client or something running > locally? > > The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't > have to > > be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, > > working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a > > web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. > > That's exactly what I understood from their description. The teacher > sends an email with an attachment. The children download it with > gmail > at the school and store the attachment in the Journal. Then they > take > it home, work on it, and when they return to school they send their > work to the teacher using gmail again. > > An email activity with replication or however it is called (making a > local copy of the emails and synchronizing automatically with the > server whenever there is connectivity), would be very useful so they > are not limited to attachments only. > > Regards, > > Gabriel > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 05:43:23 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:43:23 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:02 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: >> >> So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want >> to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the >> Fedora booth at FOSDEM. > > The latest known to work is: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso > > Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it > contains and if it's tested. Oh! http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 Marco From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 31 05:43:28 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:43:28 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: >> So. If someone can point me to the *authoritative iso image* that we want >> to use for SoaS, I will make sure that we have install stations at the >> Fedora booth at FOSDEM. > > The latest known to work is: > > http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/snapshots/1/Soas-200901271941.iso > > Simon did another image today, but I don't know what improvements it > contains and if it's tested. > > Marco > Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Thanks, Simon From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 05:49:24 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:49:24 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this > post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 > > It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as > possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps > of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking > @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to > infos on how to best trim down are welcome. Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just leverage his work... Marco From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 08:10:44 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:10:44 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: <4ee4c0160901301407t5a88413bx2f926e66db5f22cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <317e39f0901300053wd7ac64fwbff4e1cd0bb48762@mail.gmail.com> <3c866f940901300403k2df21e97y2d3b04fc114af5c3@mail.gmail.com> <4ee4c0160901301407t5a88413bx2f926e66db5f22cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <242851610901310510k1aa5b470q4d919f0fd2f1fb90@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 23:07, David Cabo wrote: > What's the current status of Gears on the XO? Can it be added to Browser? I > remember someone started working on it a few months ago, but unfortunately I > don't know if they were successful. > > The reason I'm asking is that GMail is currently rolling out offline > support, although it's disabled by default at the moment: > http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-in-labs-offline-gmail.html Last I looked, Gears worked in Browse, but you had to unzip the .xpi and put the different bits in two or three different places. Regards, Tomeu > Regards, > > /david > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Gabriel Eirea wrote: >> >> 2009/1/30 Grant Bowman : >> > Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from >> > olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the >> > original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are >> > used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development >> > perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. >> > As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." >> > >> > Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? >> > The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to >> > be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, >> > working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a >> > web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. >> >> That's exactly what I understood from their description. The teacher >> sends an email with an attachment. The children download it with gmail >> at the school and store the attachment in the Journal. Then they take >> it home, work on it, and when they return to school they send their >> work to the teacher using gmail again. >> >> An email activity with replication or however it is called (making a >> local copy of the emails and synchronizing automatically with the >> server whenever there is connectivity), would be very useful so they >> are not limited to attachments only. >> >> Regards, >> >> Gabriel >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > From tomeu at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 08:15:46 2009 From: tomeu at sugarlabs.org (Tomeu Vizoso) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:15:46 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >> >> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. > > Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But setting up a rsync server may help with that. Regards, Tomeu > Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can > switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to > reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just > leverage his work... > > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From dvanassche at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 08:34:29 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:34:29 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901310534h35b2c6d9o4f93183cdc36bc8c@mail.gmail.com> Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in and does the sugar stuff.... Then people could use their distro to create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for sugar and its activities... I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe) Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti > wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >>> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >>> >>> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >>> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >>> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >>> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >>> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. >> >> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? > > If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, > many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. > > But setting up a rsync server may help with that. > > Regards, > > Tomeu > >> Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can >> switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to >> reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just >> leverage his work... >> >> Marco >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 09:09:18 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:09:18 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49845B8E.5070907@when.com> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >> >> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. > > Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? > > Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can > switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to > reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just > leverage his work... > > Marco Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding locals and drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly draft up a kickstart file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not limited to the XO. --Sebastian From cjb at laptop.org Sat Jan 31 09:10:14 2009 From: cjb at laptop.org (Chris Ball) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:10:14 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49845B8E.5070907__2718.91589877686$1233411088$gmane$org@when.com> (Sebastian Dziallas's message of "Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:09:18 +0100") References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <49845B8E.5070907__2718.91589877686$1233411088$gmane$org@when.com> Message-ID: Hi, > Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding > locals and drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly > draft up a kickstart file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not > limited to the XO. Even if Marco wouldn't like this, it was on my list of things we should do for the XO Fedora build, so please do! ;-) Thanks! - Chris. -- Chris Ball From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 09:16:37 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:16:37 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? > > If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, > many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. But you don't actually need to download images each time. yum update works fine... Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 09:18:23 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:18:23 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49845B8E.5070907@when.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <49845B8E.5070907@when.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Well, it's mainly as small as it is due to removals regarding locals and > drivers, but if you don't mind, I could also quickly draft up a kickstart > file including GNOME and Sugar, wihch is not limited to the XO. I'd love that! Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 09:20:20 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:20:20 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <49845B8E.5070907__2718.91589877686$1233411088$gmane$org@when.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Chris Ball wrote: > Even if Marco wouldn't like this, it was on my list of things we should > do for the XO Fedora build, so please do! ;-) Just to make it completely clear... I was trying to figure out Soas high priority requirements. I totally want a small-as-possible image for other scenarios (the main one being olpc images). Marco From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 09:26:36 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:26:36 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901310534h35b2c6d9o4f93183cdc36bc8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <8cc423ef0901310534h35b2c6d9o4f93183cdc36bc8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49845F9C.8020008@when.com> David Van Assche wrote: > Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits > (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in > and does the sugar stuff.... Then people could use their distro to > create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for > sugar and its activities... > > I'd also suggest putting wubi on it so it can be run on windows... (cringe) It might also be worth considering Luke Macken's liveusb-creator for Fedora: https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ The thing about it is that it runs under Windows, as well as under Linux and already supports downloading iso images. I added support for the Fedora Sugar Spin (you just need to plug in an USB key and it downloads the stuff for you and puts it on the key) but probably we could work something out or even replace it with another image... Just some thoughts, though. --Sebastian > Anyweay, so this would become the sugar addon image/cd/drive > > David Van Assche > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:49, Marco Pesenti Gritti >> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>>> Latest image and improvements (git head with some fixes) are listed in this >>>> post http://erikos.sweettimez.de/?p=332 >>>> >>>> It is even a bit smaller :) Now, we really need to make this as small as >>>> possible. I wonder how we can best do this. I mean I can get a list of deps >>>> of Sugar and then add all the rest needed to start it - for example taking >>>> @gnome-desktop out of the kickstart did not boot anymore. Any pointers to >>>> infos on how to best trim down are welcome. >>> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? >> If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, >> many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. >> >> But setting up a rsync server may help with that. >> >> Regards, >> >> Tomeu >> >>> Caroline requested to have GNOME on the images so that people can >>> switch to it if they want. I think Sebastian is doing some work to >>> reduce size for the XO. If size is not a blocker we could just >>> leverage his work... >>> >>> Marco From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 31 10:40:30 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:40:30 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: >>> Why do you think size is very important for Soas (real question)? >> If we want wide testing and people need to download 800MB each time, >> many people (me included) will have a hard time getting those bits. > > But you don't actually need to download images each time. yum update > works fine... > > Marco Ok, did not think about yum update. Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Cheers, Simon From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 10:45:06 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:45:06 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Ok, did not think about yum update. > > Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have > though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac > users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). Marco From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 31 10:51:03 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:51:03 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> Ok, did not think about yum update. >> >> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have >> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac >> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. > > Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can > play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they > would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. > That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can > explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have > them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). > > Marco > As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well - that is true. Thanks, Simon From dvanassche at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 10:53:34 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:53:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever other apps... On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >>> Ok, did not think about yum update. >>> >>> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit to have >>> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to make mac >>> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. >> >> Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can >> play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they >> would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. >> That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can >> explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have >> them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). >> >> Marco >> > > As I said - might be a good way to get them try out other apps besides > Sugar - see that as a benefit. We could build customized images as well > - that is true. > > Thanks, > Simon > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 31 10:56:49 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:56:49 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> David Van Assche wrote: > You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar > or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever > other apps... Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p Apart from that - not a big deal for me. Simon From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 11:00:40 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:00:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM, David Van Assche wrote: > You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar > or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever > other apps... gdm was eating quite a bit of memory last time I tried. Also Caroline didn't want to have a choice visible in the UI, she wants Soas to look very clean and straightforward, advanced users can go to the shell if they want to use GNOME. (Again reporting her rationale, and hoping to do it correctly, but I tend to agree). Marco From dvanassche at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 11:02:56 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:02:56 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for all educational groups... David On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: > David Van Assche wrote: >> >> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar >> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever >> other apps... > > Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people > expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE > spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p > > Apart from that - not a big deal for me. > > Simon > > From simon at schampijer.de Sat Jan 31 11:17:34 2009 From: simon at schampijer.de (Simon Schampijer) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:17:34 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4984799E.1090804@schampijer.de> David Van Assche wrote: > What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager > (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated > as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as > does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it > might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for > all educational groups... > > David If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. Cheers, Simon From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 11:21:05 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:21:05 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Yes yum install would work So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go ahead :) Marco From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 12:42:35 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:42:35 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49848D8B.2040701@when.com> David Van Assche wrote: > What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager > (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated > as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as > does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it > might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for > all educational groups... > > David This sounds pretty much like an education spin, doesn't it? If you're interested, some folks (including me) have been working within the EDU SIG at Fedora on such a thing: [1] It's based on XFCE, but includes nevertheless the (imo very amazing set of) KDE education apps and also some other related software. There's still Sugar missing - for now. I'm wondering, how a collaboration would be useful and whether this couldn't be profitable for both projects... ;) --Sebastian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Education_Spin > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: >> David Van Assche wrote: >>> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose sugar >>> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever >>> other apps... >> Sure - I understnad the technical part. I wondered more about what people >> expect when thy download the Sugar Fedora Spin. I mean when you get the KDE >> spin you don't expect to get GNOME and KDE in that spin, right? ;p >> >> Apart from that - not a big deal for me. >> >> Simon From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 12:45:47 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:45:47 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <4984799E.1090804@schampijer.de> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> <4984799E.1090804@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49848E4B.1070000@when.com> Simon Schampijer schrieb: > David Van Assche wrote: >> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager >> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated >> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as >> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it >> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for >> all educational groups... >> >> David > > If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. > Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily > customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware than the XO. --Sebastian [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree > Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB > sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on > that and offer space for the user he can write to as well. > > Cheers, > Simon From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 12:46:21 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:46:21 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> Message-ID: <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: >> Yes yum install would work > > So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the > instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go > ahead :) > > Marco Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging fruits there might be an idea... I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. --Sebastian From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 13:10:14 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:10:14 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> Message-ID: <49849406.8000702@when.com> Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: >>> Yes yum install would work >> So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the >> instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go >> ahead :) >> >> Marco > > Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin > sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but > I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging > fruits there might be an idea... > > I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. > > --Sebastian Replying to myself here ;) I just checked it out and figured that the size of 450 MB just occurred because of the use of Rawhide. When switching to F10, it's 40 MB smaller. Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like dial-up-, font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing a - at dial-up works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here [1]). To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would give us another 100 MB free, though. --Sebastian [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428835 From cafl at msbit.com Sat Jan 31 13:25:35 2009 From: cafl at msbit.com (Carol Farlow Lerche) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:25:35 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49849406.8000702@when.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> <49849406.8000702@when.com> Message-ID: Removing printing support doesn't sound like a good idea for something that is going to be used in US schools and homes. 2009/1/31 Sebastian Dziallas > Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > > Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Caroline Meeks < > solutiongrove at gmail.com> wrote: > >>> Yes yum install would work > >> So Simon, if you want to get rid of GNOME and add the yum bits to the > >> instructions about switching to GNOME on the Soas page, please go > >> ahead :) > >> > >> Marco > > > > Well, how does working on reducing the size of the Fedora Sugar Spin > > sound to you? It has currently something a size of around 450 MB, but > > I'm pretty sure that we can get towards 300 MB. Picking the low hanging > > fruits there might be an idea... > > > > I'll see what I can do with some tweaks. > > > > --Sebastian > > Replying to myself here ;) > > I just checked it out and figured that the size of 450 MB just occurred > because of the use of Rawhide. When switching to F10, it's 40 MB smaller. > > Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like > dial-up-, font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing > a - at dial-up works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here > [1]). > > To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere > around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would > give us another 100 MB free, though. > > --Sebastian > > [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428835 > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- "Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it." -- Barack Obama -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090131/6a335180/attachment.htm From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 13:51:16 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:51:16 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> <49849406.8000702@when.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: > Removing printing support doesn't sound like a good idea for something that > is going to be used in US schools and homes. Agreed in general, but until Sugar supports printing... Marco From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 13:51:59 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:51:59 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49849406.8000702@when.com> References: <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> <49849406.8000702@when.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like dial-up-, > font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing a - at dial-up > works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here [1]). > > To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere > around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would give > us another 100 MB free, though. Awesome stuff. What kind of cleanup can we do for locales? Marco From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 14:54:51 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:54:51 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49848E6D.9040208@when.com> <49849406.8000702@when.com> Message-ID: <4984AC8B.10100@when.com> Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: >> Then I went on and removed stuff from the fedora-live-base.ks like dial-up-, >> font-, and printing-support (I'll need to check whether doing a - at dial-up >> works with the most recent pykickstart build - see also here [1]). >> >> To sum it up, this reduced the size again and it should be now somewhere >> around 350 MB. Cleaning up /usr/share with regard to the locales would give >> us another 100 MB free, though. > > Awesome stuff. What kind of cleanup can we do for locales? > > Marco Well, I was using '--excludedocs' and '--instLangs en_US' here. At least the latter one drops stuff from other locales in /usr/share if I recall correctly. From my experience, it can empty up to 120 MB of space, depending on the package selection. 290 MB was my most recent build, by the way. I added the kickstart I was using to the GIT repo. And there're more things to be kicked out ;) - as you mentioned, the backgrounds, some more printing stuff (even though I agree that if Sugar should get printing support, we'd need to add it again),... I'm right now doing another build, hoping to get a smaller image. --Sebastian From dvanassche at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 15:58:45 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:58:45 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <49848E4B.1070000@when.com> References: <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> <4984799E.1090804@schampijer.de> <49848E4B.1070000@when.com> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901311258o48ef15b8xede7681884480a5c@mail.gmail.com> Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too.... kind Regards, David Van Assche On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > Simon Schampijer schrieb: >> >> David Van Assche wrote: >>> >>> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager >>> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated >>> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as >>> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it >>> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for >>> all educational groups... >>> >>> David >> >> If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. >> Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily >> customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. > > I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome > and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can > just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] > > The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware > than the XO. > > --Sebastian > > [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree > >> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB >> sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that >> and offer space for the user he can write to as well. >> >> Cheers, >> Simon > From bernie at codewiz.org Sat Jan 31 16:13:40 2009 From: bernie at codewiz.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:13:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] [Systems] [support.osuosl.org #5846] Sugar Labs: Hosting for Pootle In-Reply-To: <2eaf0c620901311200y49962724w634a5dc56f8643dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <496B75C2.3080001@codewiz.org> <203ade210901121048v5336f67and48ce302bb8b9eb8@mail.gmail.com> <496CCEBF.5050604@codewiz.org> <497AC518.5050607@codewiz.org> <2eaf0c620901311200y49962724w634a5dc56f8643dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4984BF04.1030006@codewiz.org> [cc += sugar-devel@, sayamindu] Let's crosspost to a wider audience to get some feedback on this idea. Luke Faraone wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Bernie Innocenti > wrote: > > This server has just transitioned into production a few days ago, but > we could host stuff like Pootle there too. > > > Alternatively, something we can do that requires no hosting effort or > resource consumption: Use Launchpad.net's Rosetta. > > Rosetta is hosted by Canonical with a team of full time sysadmins. They > are planning on opensourcing it > along with the rest of > launchpad on July 21, and already support the import and export of POT > files. > > We'd be able to make use of this without any other commitments to > Canonical infrastructure, and Canonical has pledged to continue to > provide free hosting to open source projects, and to not roll out > premium features only available to paying customers. > > Or we can host and manage Pootle ourselves. > > (support at o.o not cc'd as this is not a OSUOSL issue) > -- > Luke Faraone > http://luke.faraone.cc -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 17:16:49 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:16:49 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901311258o48ef15b8xede7681884480a5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> <4984799E.1090804@schampijer.de> <49848E4B.1070000@when.com> <8cc423ef0901311258o48ef15b8xede7681884480a5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4984CDD1.1060907@when.com> David Van Assche wrote: > Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar > in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu > has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems > very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. > Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a > commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP > sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to > really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning > objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu > is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too.... > > kind Regards, > David Van Assche Yeah, I agree! The folks at KDE are doing a great job with their kdeedu stuff. I came across this here recently, looks like a good plan to me [1]; thanks to Greg for referring me to it. ;) I'm not feared either of mixing Gnome, KDE and Sugar apps (XFCE is also our Fedora spin), but there're some questions coming into my mind: * How can we promote Sugar best? So. Obviously the question would also be whether it makes sense to include Sugar in a general Fedora Education Spin (e.g. which includes also kdeedu). But how would this work? I mean would we just have to desktops there, or how can we provide the best usability? And would something like this worth targeting F11? If the answer to the last question is 'yes', I'd need to hurry a bit with modifying the kickstart and talking other folks. * How can we prevent us from doing duplicated work? Does it make sense to release Sugar on a Stick and a Fedora Sugar Spin at the same time, with just marginal differences (e.g. having more activities in SoaS but the Fedora trademark in the latter one)? Or would it e.g. be worth considering to drop e.g. the Fedora Sugar Spin and focus instead on SoaS *and* and inclusion of Sugar on a complete Education Spin? I think this really needs to be discussed. If you want to, even at FOSDEM ;). These are just some thoughts and I'm not quite sure, where this will end up, though. --Sebastian > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: >> Simon Schampijer schrieb: >>> David Van Assche wrote: >>>> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager >>>> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated >>>> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as >>>> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it >>>> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for >>>> all educational groups... >>>> >>>> David >>> If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. >>> Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily >>> customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. >> I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome >> and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can >> just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] >> >> The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware >> than the XO. >> >> --Sebastian >> >> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree >> >>> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB >>> sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that >>> and offer space for the user he can write to as well. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Simon From sebastian at when.com Sat Jan 31 17:23:23 2009 From: sebastian at when.com (Sebastian Dziallas) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:23:23 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <4984CDD1.1060907@when.com> References: <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> <498474C1.2000109@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310802wc5c6b4eh1a59b6059604dc39@mail.gmail.com> <4984799E.1090804@schampijer.de> <49848E4B.1070000@when.com> <8cc423ef0901311258o48ef15b8xede7681884480a5c@mail.gmail.com> <4984CDD1.1060907@when.com> Message-ID: <4984CF5B.5020207@when.com> Sebastian Dziallas wrote: > David Van Assche wrote: >> Yeah we are doing the same with edubuntu... which should include sugar >> in Jaunty+1, when it is a little more mature (activity wise.) Kde-edu >> has made massive advances in their edu tools and the kde team seems >> very committed to getting the whole distro known as the 'edu' distro. >> Part of the reason for this is that the Brazillian government made a >> commitment to put 60 million users infront of kde 4... (not LTSP >> sadly) but thats a pretty big market... so now they've decided to >> really focus on edu... think of the possibilitiy of making learning >> objects that are plasmoids... the sky is the limit... Anyway, edubuntu >> is a mix of gnome and kde edu apps... and soon sugar edu stuff too.... >> >> kind Regards, >> David Van Assche > > Yeah, I agree! The folks at KDE are doing a great job with their kdeedu > stuff. I came across this here recently, looks like a good plan to me > [1]; thanks to Greg for referring me to it. ;) > > I'm not feared either of mixing Gnome, KDE and Sugar apps (XFCE is also > our Fedora spin), but there're some questions coming into my mind: > > * How can we promote Sugar best? > > So. Obviously the question would also be whether it makes sense to > include Sugar in a general Fedora Education Spin (e.g. which includes > also kdeedu). But how would this work? I mean would we just have to > desktops there, or how can we provide the best usability? And would > something like this worth targeting F11? > > If the answer to the last question is 'yes', I'd need to hurry a bit > with modifying the kickstart and talking other folks. > > * How can we prevent us from doing duplicated work? > > Does it make sense to release Sugar on a Stick and a Fedora Sugar Spin > at the same time, with just marginal differences (e.g. having more > activities in SoaS but the Fedora trademark in the latter one)? > > Or would it e.g. be worth considering to drop e.g. the Fedora Sugar Spin > and focus instead on SoaS *and* and inclusion of Sugar on a complete > Education Spin? > > I think this really needs to be discussed. If you want to, even at > FOSDEM ;). These are just some thoughts and I'm not quite sure, where > this will end up, though. > > --Sebastian /me reminds himself of adding links before pushing the "send"-button. [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/Education >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: >>> Simon Schampijer schrieb: >>>> David Van Assche wrote: >>>>> What's wrong with offering kde, sugar, or gnome from the login manager >>>>> (whatever that might be... that could be made as simple or complicated >>>>> as one wanted.) Kde has an amazingly powerful group of edu apps, as >>>>> does gnome, as does Sugar... all for different age groups... so it >>>>> might make sense to make something all encompassing that is useful for >>>>> all educational groups... >>>>> >>>>> David >>>> If that is the desire from whoever is using those Sticks - off he goes. >>>> Caroline wants to offer GNOME as well - great. Those images are easily >>>> customizable - so as marco said there could be different versions. >>> I just created a very first draft of a slimmed-down version including Gnome >>> and Sugar on the same spin. Though, I didn't get to testing it yet. You can >>> just have a look at the GIT repo here: [1] >>> >>> The soas-*.ks files are the ones which should also work on other hardware >>> than the XO. >>> >>> --Sebastian >>> >>> [1] http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/fedora-xo;a=tree >>> >>>> Subnote: There is a size limit as well to some sticks - for example 1 GB >>>> sticks are quite common - not sure if you can fit all the desktops on that >>>> and offer space for the user he can write to as well. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Simon From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 19:08:40 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 01:08:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] A small request. In-Reply-To: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> References: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > Dear Sugar team, > > I've been very confused (and frankly, significantly angered) by recent remarks > that I've encountered both in person (e.g. from Bernie) and in #sugar (e.g. > from Simon and Tomeu) about how sugar-related folk are thinking about the issue > of mass activity installation and update. Consequently, I'd find it really > helpful if we could sit down, lay out all the agreed facts, disagreements, and > desires, and then figure out a mutually agreeable plan for the future. What about discussing it in the next development team meeting? http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings#When_and_where Greg has magic powers to get all of us working together. We are such an apollo team! Marco From cscott at laptop.org Sat Jan 31 19:26:58 2009 From: cscott at laptop.org (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:26:58 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] A small request. In-Reply-To: References: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Michael Stone wrote: >> Dear Sugar team, >> >> I've been very confused (and frankly, significantly angered) by recent remarks >> that I've encountered both in person (e.g. from Bernie) and in #sugar (e.g. >> from Simon and Tomeu) about how sugar-related folk are thinking about the issue >> of mass activity installation and update. Consequently, I'd find it really >> helpful if we could sit down, lay out all the agreed facts, disagreements, and >> desires, and then figure out a mutually agreeable plan for the future. > > What about discussing it in the next development team meeting? > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings#When_and_where > > Greg has magic powers to get all of us working together. We are such > an apollo team! Can someone tell me what it is we are discussing? --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) From marcopg at sugarlabs.org Sat Jan 31 19:29:31 2009 From: marcopg at sugarlabs.org (Marco Pesenti Gritti) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 01:29:31 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] A small request. In-Reply-To: References: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:26 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > Can someone tell me what it is we are discussing? We need to integrate some kind of activity updating solution in Glucose. There is disagreement on when (0.84 or next release cycle) and what (your updater, something based on it, a complete rewrite). Marco From cscott at laptop.org Sat Jan 31 19:47:34 2009 From: cscott at laptop.org (C. Scott Ananian) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:47:34 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] A small request. In-Reply-To: References: <20090130205415.GB3043@heat> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 7:29 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:26 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: >> Can someone tell me what it is we are discussing? > > We need to integrate some kind of activity updating solution in > Glucose. There is disagreement on when (0.84 or next release cycle) > and what (your updater, something based on it, a complete rewrite). OK, thanks. The existing updater works fine in Debian; I don't know if it was ever pushed into koji, but it is certainly compatible with Fedora. If anyone wants to develop a new updater, I can probably offer some advice. Using an explicit update_url field in the activity is recommended for activities packaged with the current updater; the OLPC wiki default was only ever intended to be a bridge for legacy apps, not a recommended practice. I prefer email for initial discussions of updater ideas: 9am isn't a great meeting time for me. http://cananian.livejournal.com/48460.html also has some thoughts on updaters. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) From caroline at meekshome.com Wed Jan 28 18:59:46 2009 From: caroline at meekshome.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:59:46 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Soas name In-Reply-To: <7087c32a0901280945j3a7b00f3kb66aaab0e017075@mail.gmail.com> References: <498091D0.8010405@firmworks.com> <2eaf0c620901280938t714cd37dt2526360b59f5e56b@mail.gmail.com> <7087c32a0901280945j3a7b00f3kb66aaab0e017075@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > To the contrary, the words Sugar on a Stick actually mean something. > Actually they mean two things: Sugar environment on a USB stick in the > context of software, and a kind of candy in the context of food. +1 I've talked to a lot of people about this concept. Based on my experience I want a name that I can say and people can get some idea of what I mean. Then I can joke and say "code name Lollipop" and give out lollipops, but first I need people to know what I'm talking about. But Sugar on a Stick has a ring to it and communicates. If we want to name the release candidates lollipop-1 lollipop-2 etc. I'm ok with that. I have no attachment to the acronym SoaS. But the official project name for Sugar on a Stick should stay "Sugar on a Stick". Thanks, Caroline > > Lollipop or Rock Candy means nothing in the context of software unless you > *know* you are also in the context of Sugar environments. . > > I think that if we are producing an "Official" Sugar distribution that is > intended to run on XOs, PCs, USB sticks, emulators, etc. perhaps SoaS is a > little too specific. > > Regards, > Wade > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Luke Faraone wrote: > >> Or "rock candy" :) >> >> -lf >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: >> >>> The name "Soas" lacks pizazz. How about "lollipop"? After all, a >>> lollipop is just .. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove Caroline at SolutionGrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090128/d1a450d2/attachment-0001.htm From jim.simmons at walgreens.com Thu Jan 29 10:56:02 2009 From: jim.simmons at walgreens.com (James Simmons) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:56:02 -0600 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Problem running Sugar on openSUSE 11.1, MOSTLY fixed In-Reply-To: References: <49749648.8070901@walgreens.com> <4978A6A5.4090905@walgreens.com> <4978A9BA.8000800@walgreens.com> <4979E3B9.3000303@walgreens.com> <4979EF0D.40608@walgreens.com> <49807BED.9030203@walgreens.com> Message-ID: <4981D192.6010003@walgreens.com> Jigish, I managed to figure out why my Activities weren't visible. Only Favorite Activities show up in the ring, and none of mine were marked as Favorites. I changed to the List View, marked them as Favorites, and all was well. Almost. Of all the Activities, I was only able to get Write, Terminal, and Chat to come up. The others just did the pulsing icon thing for three minutes and vanished. I tried to install my own Activities by copying them into the Journal from a thumb drive. This didn't work. The Copy icon in the Journal did not show the "Copy to Journal" option. Also, I was unable to switch back to viewing the Journal after selecting the thumb drive option. It just froze up. This morning I tried again, and found that the Journal had emptied itself out. It does that in the Xubuntu version of Sugar too. I am attaching a file with error messages I get when running Sugar this morning. I hope it will be of some use to you. This morning I also discovered that Java wasn't working. Run java with or without arguments and you get a bunch of error messages. That convinced me its time to give up on openSUSE. I have decided that the only way I'm going to get the robust Sugar environment I need is to run sugar-jhbuild on the latest Fedora. That, I believe, will give me something close to what the Sugar developers are using. I gave up on installing Fedora from the Live CD because it seemed to need more memory than I had available, but there is an install DVD also available so I'm going to try that. Thanks, James Simmons -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: sugerrs.txt Url: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090129/b67df0bf/attachment-0001.txt From michael.r.stone at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 10:56:35 2009 From: michael.r.stone at gmail.com (Michael Stone) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:56:35 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] moving tickets from dev.l.o to dev.s.o In-Reply-To: <242851610901290725u2282c1e9w7a085e9ca7fde162@mail.gmail.com> References: <242851610901290725u2282c1e9w7a085e9ca7fde162@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <961dd6930901290756j79d58385i2b6a3b520501cd84@mail.gmail.com> Tomeu, In the past, I've approached the problem of trac automation through trac's XML-RPC plugin. Two example scripts which I wrote which make use of this plugin include: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/mocktools;a=blob;f=mass_update.py;hb=HEAD and http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/cscott/mocktools;a=blob;f=trac_helper.py;hb=HEAD Michael NB: The ticket.query method seems to return at most 100 results at a time so you may need to be a bit sneaky in order to process all of the tickets you want. (Maybe someone more experienced with the plugin knows how to resolve or work around this?) From michael at laptop.org Thu Jan 29 11:42:03 2009 From: michael at laptop.org (Michael Stone) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:42:03 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Summary & Minutes from olpc-friends' Tuesday Deployment Meeting Message-ID: <20090129164203.GA2989@heat> Folks, We had an awesome deployment meeting this Tuesday at 2000 UTC on #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net. Almost 30 people came, with knowledge of 10 different deployments! Summary and minutes are now available at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#Summary http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127 Enjoy, and please join us next Tuesday at 2000 UTC or Wednesday at 0500 UTC. Also, please feel free to add items to the next meetings' agenda at the bottom of http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings so that interested folks can prepare questions and remarks. Voluntarily yours, Michael P.S. - Would some kind English+Spanish-speaking soul be willing to provide a nice translation of Hernan's remarks: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#hpachas.27_Remarks for interested illiterates like me? From dvanassche at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 12:27:40 2009 From: dvanassche at gmail.com (David Van Assche) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:27:40 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Summary & Minutes from olpc-friends' Tuesday Deployment Meeting In-Reply-To: <20090129164203.GA2989@heat> References: <20090129164203.GA2989@heat> Message-ID: <8cc423ef0901290927n24f560f4r2c1ce3201c75ec22@mail.gmail.com> Enjoy: hpachas> _sj_, los temas de implementaci?n pasan por 3 temas importantes the implementation themes are split into 3 important ones: hpachas> _sj_, logistico, t?cnico y pedag?gico logistics, technical and pedagogical hpachas> pienso que se deben agendar reuniones en base a los tres grandes temas _sj_> hpachas, los tres! I think we should aggregate the meetings according to the big 3 themes _sj_> oh, right, logistics _sj_> hpachas, absolutamente. logistics is its own Field _sj_> as anyone who has every sat with hernan or fiorella can tell you... hpachas> _sj_, en la parte logistica, son muchos pasos que los dem?s paises deben entender como realizarlo yes in the logistics part there are many steps that the other countries could learn how to realize hpachas> _sj_, ahora a eso tenemos que a?adir: distribuci?n, reparaci?n, sustituci?n to that we now need to add distribution, repairs, and substitution _sj_> hpachas, que es sustitucion? _sj_> support? hpachas> _sj_, sustituci?n = reemplazo de un equipo por otro _sj_> ah! interestante! substitution means replacing one machine for another hpachas> _sj_, son muchas cosas por las cuales nosotros ya hemos pasado y estamos pasando these are many aspects which we have already experienced and are experiencing. hpachas> _sj_, ahora en el tema t?cnico, es otro mundo paralelo in the technical theme, it is a parallel world hpachas> _sj_, localizaci?n, activaci?n, etc, etc localisation, activation, etc _sj_> hpachas, si, muchas muchas cosas importantes yes many important things hpachas> _sj_, tenemos q recordar que la parte t?cnica va en los siguientes aspectos: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Acceso a Internet we have to remember that the technical parts are split into the following items: XO, XS, AP, Swhti, Internet Access _sj_> hpachas, puedes ayudar con los agendas de estos reuniones? can u help with the agenda of these meetings _sj_> tienes el gran parte de experiencia con estos u have the most experience with these items _sj_> temas, problemas, soluciones themes, problems, solutions _sj_> y la compartmentacion entre temas diferentes y paraleles and the compartimentisation between different parallel themes hpachas> _sj_, pienso que debemos hacer una evaluaci?n de como se encuentran en estos mometnos todos los paises OLPC I think we should evaluate how the OLPC countries find themselves right now. _sj_> Swhti? hpachas> _sj_, quizas tener un site que diga el grado de avance de cada pais, ayudar?a maybe have a site that shows the percentage of advancement of each country would help _sj_> hpachas, estos discusiones son para los escuelas y paises pequenos these discussions are for schools and smaller countries only _sj_> solamente _sj_> pero hay paraleles but there are parallels _sj_> ah _sj_> el mapo con "el grado de avance" es muy viejo the map with the percentage advance is very old _sj_> mapa* _sj_> hmm hpachas> ese mapa debe ser interactivo, editable a trav?s de internte that map should be interactive and editable via the net. _sj_> hpachas, voy a ver. si... _sj_> no tenemos cada uno _sj_> pere sera valable hpachas> _sj_, si colocamos el programa OLPC en linea de tiempo, diria q empieza por el tema logistico, t?cnico/pedag?gico If we put the OLPC program in a linear timeline, we could say it starts with the logistics, and then tecnical and pedagogical. _sj_> si. wikitimeline es interesante para eso... wikitimeline could be used for that. _sj_> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EasyTimeline On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Michael Stone wrote: > Folks, > > We had an awesome deployment meeting this Tuesday at 2000 UTC on > #olpc-deployment on irc.freenode.net. Almost 30 people came, with knowledge of > 10 different deployments! > > Summary and minutes are now available at > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#Summary > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127 > > Enjoy, and please join us next Tuesday at 2000 UTC or Wednesday at 0500 UTC. > Also, please feel free to add items to the next meetings' agenda at the bottom > of > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings > > so that interested folks can prepare questions and remarks. > > Voluntarily yours, > > Michael > > P.S. - Would some kind English+Spanish-speaking soul be willing to provide a > nice translation of Hernan's remarks: > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_meetings/20090127#hpachas.27_Remarks > > for interested illiterates like me? > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > From forster at ozonline.com.au Thu Jan 29 22:01:25 2009 From: forster at ozonline.com.au (forster at ozonline.com.au) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:01:25 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice Message-ID: <200901300301.n0U31PV2009789@smtp.ozonline.com.au> > What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting > arbitrary functions to execute within TA. I can imagine that Rainbow > would be of some protection here, but are there other things I can do > to restrict, say to the math module, the functions available. > Would TA make the system more vulnerable that it already is with Pippy, Develop and Terminal? If not then I don't see a problem. I would like learners have access to more functions than in the math module. The idea of empowering learners has risks, that's why the XO is easily re-flashed. The only thing that worries me is a virus spreading through the mesh network, but I suspect that whatver the risk is, its already there. Tony From cbigenho at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 14:40:36 2009 From: cbigenho at hotmail.com (Caryl Bigenho) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:40:36 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client In-Reply-To: <4982F013.1080006@laptop.org> References: <4982F013.1080006@laptop.org> Message-ID: Hi... The interesting thing is that the folks on the Sur list (mostly from Uruguay) are speculating about a lot of the same things and also, who the teacher is! It was posted with nickname which may or may not be the teacher's. Now they are saying that this sort of thing needs to be done more often so that developers and other interested people can see how teachers are actually using the XO with their students. They realize that having it with English sub-titles will give it a wider audience. So, hopefully there will be more to share soon. Caryl Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:18:27 -0500 From: holt at laptop.org To: caryl at laptop.org Subject: Fwd: [Sugar-devel] Email client Subject: [Sugar-devel] Email client Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:53:48 -0800 From: Grant Bowman To: Sugar Devel Thank you Caryl and Caroline for forwarding this (originally) from olpc-sur (south) mail list. As the Spanish description of the original email mentions, developers don't always know how they are used in the classrooms. I'm curious from a Sugar development perspective exactly how they are working with email in their class. As the teacher says in the video, email is "fundamental." Are they using a web based email client or something running locally? The first girl who spoke said it's asynchronous and you don't have to be connected. She may be talking about downloading from email, working locally and then copying and pasting finished work to a web-based email client but it doesn't sound like it to me. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects/xomail is the best summary of email client writing to date but the code for sweetmail has little documentation so far and few commits. I hope Shikhar can speak a bit more about it's status. -- Grant Bowman On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Caroline Meeks wrote: > Hi, > > How is "Forms" discussed at the end of the second video implemented? Is that > a Sugar activity or is it using Moodle? > > Thanks, > Caroline > > > PS Awesome videos! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Caryl Bigenho > Date: 2009/1/29 > Subject: FW: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay (Excellent!) > To: OLPC Support Gang , Developers > List > > > Hi... > > Someone in Uruguay has posted two videos showing how they are using the XOs > in the classrooms. It is difficult to understand the children at times, but > someone has put in sub-titles in English. So, for us, that is ok (some of > the Spanish speakers are having trouble with it though). > > There are amazing things in here...how the students and teacher keep in > constant communication, how the teacher keeps track of what the students are > doing, how and what they are learning from TurtleArt, how they use email, > how they figured out how to convert and play YouTube videos, and how the > teacher uses them as part of the curriculum. > > The tool they used for the subtitles, Overstream, seems pretty fantastic > too. The possibilities of using it for other things seem endless. > > This is really good stuff. Take the time to check it out! > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz > > http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl > > > Caryl > >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:03:01 -0200 >> From: geirea at gmail.com >> To: olpc-sur at lists.laptop.org >> Subject: [Sur] videos de Rivera, Uruguay >> >> Estimados: >> >> En el edublog un maestro de Rivera (Jorge Cancela creo que es su >> nombre, su alias es JUCL) public? dos videos con una presentaci?n del >> uso de la XO en clase, hecha en conjunto con algunos alumnos. Me >> pareci? muy bueno y me pareci? que deb?a ser conocido por mucha gente. >> Sobre todo pienso en quienes trabajan en forma voluntaria para hacer >> el proyecto una realidad y muchas veces no saben qu? es lo que pasa en >> los lugares donde se realiza el proyecto. >> >> Entonces le puse subt?tulos en ingl?s y los publiqu? aqu?: >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i2ueryser0rz >> >> http://www.overstream.net/view.php?oid=i4m7lvmniztl >> >> ?Qu? les parece? Algunos tramos no entend?a bien lo que dec?an y qued? >> como puntos suspensivos, cualquier sugerencia para rellenarlos ser? >> bienvenida. >> >> Saludos, >> >> Gabriel >> _______________________________________________ >> Lista olpc-Sur >> olpc-Sur at lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel at lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > -- > Caroline Meeks > Solution Grove > Caroline at SolutionGrove.com > > 617-500-3488 - Office > 505-213-3268 - Fax > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > _______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090130/5b300d2b/attachment-0001.htm From cbigenho at hotmail.com Fri Jan 30 15:03:33 2009 From: cbigenho at hotmail.com (Caryl Bigenho) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:03:33 -0800 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids Message-ID: Hi... Here is more good stuff from Uruguay. These anecdotes were collected from teachers at a school for developmentally challenged children in Uruguay at a fair they had for a number of schools participating in Project Ceibal (OLPC in Uruguay). They were originally posted on a blog in Spanish which I will list below, but here is where you can find a machine translation into English on the Project Ceibal blog site: http://olpc-ceibal.blogspot.com/2009/01/anecdotes-of-plan-ceibal-in-durazno.html Caryl The original blog in Spanish can be found at: http://www.blogedu-rosamel.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090130/3a69bd92/attachment.htm From quozl at laptop.org Fri Jan 30 17:38:03 2009 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:38:03 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090130223803.GA15121@us.netrek.org> Ow! TurtleArt needs a way to make letters. The method the student used was amazing, but did he really have to do it that way? ;-) At least he won. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From quozl at laptop.org Fri Jan 30 17:49:31 2009 From: quozl at laptop.org (James Cameron) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:49:31 +1100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Uruguay: Using the XO with Developmentally Challenged Kids In-Reply-To: References: <20090130223803.GA15121@us.netrek.org> Message-ID: <20090130224931.GA16336@us.netrek.org> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 05:45:32PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: > that said, it is an interesting exercise to try drawing letters with > the Turtle. Yes, a fantastic way to learn the geometry of letters in another way than with pen and ink. -- James Cameron mailto:quozl at us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ From solutiongrove at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 11:15:31 2009 From: solutiongrove at gmail.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:15:31 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> <49847367.1000901@schampijer.de> <8cc423ef0901310753t18c61ca4q3b2033d79ce028e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9195E167-189C-497D-92F4-5B90F48D5C84@gmail.com> Low floor no ceiling A 4 year old should not face a dialog box asking gnome or sugar. A 12 year old with experience should be able to break out of sugar to the full power of Linux. It's ok with me if the 12 year old has to toto a page in a wiki to do it. Doesn't have to be super easy just possible. Thanks Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jan 31, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:53 PM, David Van Assche > wrote: >> You can easily make gdm the session manager from which to choose >> sugar >> or gnome, and thereby give them access to gimp, inkscape and whatever >> other apps... > > gdm was eating quite a bit of memory last time I tried. Also Caroline > didn't want to have a choice visible in the UI, she wants Soas to look > very clean and straightforward, advanced users can go to the shell if > they want to use GNOME. (Again reporting her rationale, and hoping to > do it correctly, but I tend to agree). > > Marco > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel From solutiongrove at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 11:19:13 2009 From: solutiongrove at gmail.com (Caroline Meeks) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:19:13 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <498470EE.3090201@schampijer.de> Message-ID: Yes yum install would work Sent from my iPhone Caroline Meeks 617-395-7966 On Jan 31, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Simon Schampijer > wrote: >> Ok, did not think about yum update. >> >> Did not know GNOME was a requirement, wonder if this is a benefit >> to have >> though. I mean it is Sugar on a stick in the end. If it helps to >> make mac >> users get to know gnome or sugar i guess that is ok. > > Caroline wants to get Soas to high school students so that they can > play with and help us out with testing etc. At the same time they > would like to be able to run normal linux applications like the gimp. > That was more or less the rationale, but I'm ccing Caroline which can > explain better. (Another way to cover that use case could be to have > them yum install GNOME or build customized images with it). > > Marco From klik.atekon.de at googlemail.com Sat Jan 31 20:25:02 2009 From: klik.atekon.de at googlemail.com (Simon Peter) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 02:25:02 +0100 Subject: [Sugar-devel] SoaS at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <8cc423ef0901310534h35b2c6d9o4f93183cdc36bc8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49842B50.1070307@schampijer.de> <242851610901310515p7f8665efu37e4cc136907c48d@mail.gmail.com> <8cc423ef0901310534h35b2c6d9o4f93183cdc36bc8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <85d71c370901311725y16bd951and5dbfdbb11200580@mail.gmail.com> 2009/1/31 David Van Assche : > Can't we split it into 2 parts, the regular startup and desktop bits > (as created in teh oses) and then the downloadable bit which hooks in > and does the sugar stuff.... Then people could use their distro to > create the usb pen drive, and download the (200mb or 300mb) bit for > sugar and its activities... I've done exactly that in Sbuntu: http://dev.laptop.org/~probono/sbuntu/ (You take a stock Ubuntu 8.10 USB stick, and simply add the file sugar.squashfs to the directory casper/ on that stick - done.) Unfortunately the Fedrora Live CD infrastucture doesn't support this yet: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470879 From luke at faraone.cc Sat Jan 31 21:17:54 2009 From: luke at faraone.cc (Luke Faraone) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:17:54 -0500 Subject: [Sugar-devel] programming on thin ice In-Reply-To: <200901300301.n0U31PV2009789@smtp.ozonline.com.au> References: <200901300301.n0U31PV2009789@smtp.ozonline.com.au> Message-ID: <2eaf0c620901311817p59c82a82hf265c90a091b045b@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:01 PM, wrote: > > What I am concerned about is making the system vulnerable by letting > > arbitrary functions to execute within TA. I can imagine that Rainbow > > would be of some protection here, but are there other things I can do > > to restrict, say to the math module, the functions available. > > > Would TA make the system more vulnerable that it already is with Pippy, > Develop and Terminal? > > If not then I don't see a problem. I would like learners have access to > more functions than in the math module. > > The idea of empowering learners has risks, that's why the XO is easily > re-flashed. The only thing that worries me is a virus spreading through the > mesh network, but I suspect that whatver the risk is, its already there The model is different, though, with TA. Develop and Terminal are single-user programs, you can't "join" and automagically get tainted code. An idea for "securing" TA as Walter describes it would be to have the python code be parsed by TA itself and not the interpreter, filtering out _very_carefully_ unwanted imports, open()s, evals(), compiles(), and execs(). -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20090131/df151124/attachment.htm