<div dir="auto">Hi,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It was me, back in 2018, started the conversation of switching to Gitter. [<a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055061.html">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2018-February/055061.html</a>]</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Back then, I was as new to the community as Bottersnike, Prashant, and Srevin are now. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I had just come from SymPy organisation that used Gitter as their primary communication channel.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">A huge round of appreciation to James for being on Gitter answering all the incoming questions.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">About three years down the line, here's what I learnt:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">1. Installed two IRC clients for mobile access: Riot.im and IRCCloud</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">2. IRC is still a pain to use, and I still prefer (enjoy) answering questions over the mailing list.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">3. It's hard to switch a community to a communication tool 2, unless you totally ban the original communication tool 1 and end supporting the original communication tool. Infact, it becomes worse when you have limited resources and people (something I wasn't aware of when I joined the community) because the James now has to spend his headspace for answering questions on IRC, Gitter, mailing list, and has to spend time maintaining the codebase. Headspace is valuable and limited.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Now that I've made you aware of the actual constraints of the problem, I think you may want to spend more of your time this GSoC on Gitter answering questions of the newcomers. :)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I would love to hear new viewpoints from other community members.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">PS: Thanks to everyone who answers questions from people new to SugarLabs.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 5, 2020, 1:33 AM Bottersnike <<a href="mailto:bottersnike237@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">bottersnike237@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">>Quassel core is a server that keeps the backlog. I don't need my<br>>computer on, and I can view the backlog from any device.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Without being rude, most people don't have a spare server lying around they can spin up an IRC backlog on, especially not people interested in reading backlogged messages from <i>before</i> they joined the IRC for the first time.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 7:59 PM James Cameron <<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Thanks for your thoughts.<br>
<br>
Quassel core is a server that keeps the backlog. I don't need my<br>
computer on, and I can view the backlog from any device.<br>
<br>
Yes, there are better onboarding experiences.<br>
<br>
However, if people want to talk with us, they'll know where to find<br>
us. We're here to get the job done, not provide better experiences<br>
for developers.<br>
<br>
We do still get students who can use IRC, so I know it is not a<br>
significant hindrance.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 07:46:10PM +0000, Bottersnike wrote:<br>
> I think one of the main issues with IRC is the onboarding experience, or rather<br>
> lack thereof. For new users, they're faced with an entirely blank screen, with<br>
> no trivial way to search for past questions, see if a topic has been brought up<br>
> before, or even just read through history to get a general idea of the way the<br>
> organization operates. Sure, there may be archives maintained, but for someone<br>
> who has just discovered SugarLabs and wants to contribute, that really isn't<br>
> going to be a viable solution, because it takes significant effort to hunt them<br>
> down and search through them. For established teams, this isn't much of an<br>
> issue, but it can make SugarLabs an incredibly daunting organization for young<br>
> students from, say GCI, or people looking around at different organizations for<br>
> GSoC.<br>
> <br>
> > I use Quassel, as it keeps backlog.<br>
> <br>
> Most clients keep a backlog, but only if your computer is on. That's not the<br>
> situation 24/7 for a lot of people.<br>
> <br>
> (Sorry for the double message, James. I accidentally used Reply not Reply All)<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 7:15 PM James Cameron <[1]<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for asking.<br>
> <br>
> For real-time presence messaging, please use IRC channel #sugar on<br>
> [2]<a href="http://freenode.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">freenode.net</a>. Your choice of client. I use Quassel, as it keeps<br>
> backlog.<br>
> <br>
> For store and forward messaging, please use the mailing list. Your<br>
> choice of client.<br>
> <br>
> You'll get a voice on choice of tools once you've been working with us<br>
> for a few months. Until then we can't trust that you've assessed the<br>
> situation accurately.<br>
> <br>
> Gitter.im was yet another attempt to split our community into the<br>
> haves and the have-nots. I'm almost ready to ditch my account there<br>
> because it has way less benefit than the cost. Of receiving a mail<br>
> notification, logging in, and answering the same old questions. It is<br>
> quite boring. You can see that if you look through the previous<br>
> discussion, which you'll find was entirely sporadic; someone<br>
> has a question, I answer, nothing else happens. It could have been<br>
> done in mail. It costs so much memory and screen real-estate that I<br>
> can't see myself staying connected. I certainly don't want it<br>
> promoted for Sugar Labs, but I'm willing to keep it available in case<br>
> it turns out to be useful for working with anyone who can't figure out<br>
> how to use IRC. We must allow for the possibility that someone with a<br>
> disability has been given access to Gitter.im but not to IRC. So a<br>
> matter of inclusiveness, but not emphasis.<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Mar 04, 2020 at 08:03:31PM +0530, Prashant Sengar wrote:<br>
> > Hi,<br>
> ><br>
> > I am sure this request must have been raised earlier as well. I wanted to<br>
> ask<br>
> > if Sugar could create a communication channel on another platform such as<br>
> a<br>
> > discord server, Slack or Telegram instead of IRC to make communication<br>
> easier.<br>
> ><br>
> > The reason why others will be a better option:<br>
> > 1. The chats will be accessible even if I am offline for a while, unlike<br>
> IRC<br>
> > where I cannot see any earlier data.<br>
> > 2. IRC cannot be used on mobile devices, so it creates a barrier in<br>
> > communication. On the other hand, the other chat applications are<br>
> available on<br>
> > all platforms for everyone to use.<br>
> ><br>
> > I would like to request the team to please consider this request. If such<br>
> > request has been made earlier and denied due to some reasons, then I<br>
> would like<br>
> > to know them so that I can understand the reasons and work accordingly.<br>
> ><br>
> > Regards.<br>
> > Prashant Sengar<br>
> <br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Sugar-devel mailing list<br>
> > [3]<a href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
> > [4]<a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a><br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> James Cameron<br>
> [5]<a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Sugar-devel mailing list<br>
> [6]<a href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
> [7]<a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a><br>
> <br>
> References:<br>
> <br>
> [1] mailto:<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a><br>
> [2] <a href="http://freenode.net/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://freenode.net/</a><br>
> [3] mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
> [4] <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a><br>
> [5] <a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a><br>
> [6] mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
> [7] <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a><br>
<br>
-- <br>
James Cameron<br>
<a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>
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