<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner <<a href="mailto:jeff.elkner@gmail.com">jeff.elkner@gmail.com</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes, pressing F3 did the trick. I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with them and is returning them to me. A quick look at: <a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0</a> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess? James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using etcher (<a href="https://www.balena.io/etcher/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.balena.io/etcher/</a>). When you first boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just: 1. Install Etcher. 2. Download the Raspian image file. 3. Write it to the microSD card. 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions. 5. Enjoy your new operating system! That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and works like a charm. Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities. Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not. </blockquote><div> </div><div>When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,</div><div>can you show us the activity log, it can be found in `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar. I'm not going to try to push things onto Debian stretch. Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime this Summer. After that settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for buster. Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next September in any case. Thanks! Jeff </blockquote><div> </div><div>Thanks. </div><div> </div><div> <div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><pre style="color:rgb(46,52,54);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px">-- </pre><div style="color:rgb(46,52,54);font-size:14.6667px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;width:71ch">Ibiam Chihurumnaya </div><div style="color:rgb(46,52,54);font-size:14.6667px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;width:71ch"><a href="mailto:ibiamchihurumnaya@gmail.com" style="color:rgb(42,118,198)" target="_blank">ibiamchihurumnaya@gmail.com</a></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron <<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view. Use the F3 > key, as I said. See <a href="https://help.sugarlabs.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://help.sugarlabs.org/</a> for how to switch > between views. > > Yes, what you are doing is useful. For your assumed goal of *truly* > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about. > > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS). I've guided adults and > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have. > > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the > Journal appearing first. I've also removed the now unavailable > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues > to work fine. While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or > reporting bugs to Debian. > > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository. > > <a href="http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/</a> > > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use > <a href="https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs</a> > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: > > OK, progress. Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities > > are not showing (see screenshot). In the instant that the Desktop > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4 > > activities. > > > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the > > community, and that we are on the same page. Here are my assumed > > goals: > > > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform. > > 2. A *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian. > > > > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a > > learning platform within my school district, developing OER > > educational curricula for it. > > > > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and > > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a > > pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it, > > I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice. So if > > we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both > > students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community. > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > > </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! > > </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron <<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > > > > > > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request > > > to be iconified. > > > > > > Press the F3 key. > > > > > > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon. > > > > > > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM). > > > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: > > > > Hi James and Alex, > > > > > > > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran: > > > > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm > > > > > > > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the > > > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see > > > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared). > > > > > > > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running: > > > > > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt > > > > > > > > Please let me know what I should do next. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron <<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote: > > > > > > Jeff, > > > > > > > > > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian > > > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important) > > > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been > > > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when it is > > > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to run an > > > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these packages by > > > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable repo, > > > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at <a href="https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian</a>. > > > > > > > > > > > > See <a href="https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose</a> for a list of these packages, > > > > > > and <a href="https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation</a> can explain how to > > > > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install. > > > > > > > > > > > > This may also be of use <a href="https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing</a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM: > > > > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James. I'm a high school / > > > > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early > > > > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area. I run Debian in my > > > > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop > > > > > > > to work on that platform. It doesn't currently seem to work. I don't > > > > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing > > > > > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to you. > > > > > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state where > > > > > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner > > > > > > > Arlington Career Center > > > > > > > Arlington, VA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy <<a href="mailto:samsongoddy@gmail.com" target="_blank">samsongoddy@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Alex and James, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to get started? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner <<a href="mailto:jeff.elkner@gmail.com" target="_blank">jeff.elkner@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in > > > > > > > > > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for > > > > > > > > > years and who would like to rejoin the community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same > > > > > > > > > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working for > > > > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The result is not a usable Sugar installation. I am most eager to > > > > > > > > > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I > > > > > > > > > need to start with a working system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > James Cameron > > > > > <a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a> > > > > > > > ii gir1.2-sugarext-1.0 0.112-3 amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit GObject introspection > > > > ii libsugarext-data 0.112-3 all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit common files > > > > ii libsugarext0:amd64 0.112-3 amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit runtime library > > > > ii python-sugar3 0.112-3 all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit Python bindings > > > > ii sugar-browse-activity 203-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - web browsing activity > > > > ii sugar-calculate-activity 45-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - calculation activity > > > > ii sugar-chat-activity 85-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - text chatting activity > > > > ii sugar-icon-theme 0.112-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - icon theme > > > > ii sugar-imageviewer-activity 64-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - image viewing activity > > > > ii sugar-jukebox-activity 34-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - music jukebox activity > > > > ii sugar-log-activity 39-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - log viewing and reporting activity > > > > ii sugar-pippy-activity 72~dfsg-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - Python programming activity > > > > ii sugar-read-activity 121-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - document viewer activity > > > > ii sugar-session 0.112-6 all Sugar Learning Platform - window manager > > > > ii sugar-terminal-activity 45.4-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - terminal emulation activity > > > > ii sugar-themes 0.112-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - artwork > > > > ii sugar-write-activity 100-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - writing activity > > > > > > > > > > ii sucrose 0.112-6 all Sugar Learning Platform - Sucrose > > > > > > > > > -- > > > James Cameron > > > <a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a> > > > > -- > James Cameron > <a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a> </blockquote></div></div></div>