<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Thanks for this. ASLO is our access to a rich library of Sugar
activities. It has and continues to work well. Walter's recent
post of Turtle Blocks version 218 is exemplary of the proper
process and that it works.</p>
<p>The problem with ASLO is neglect of the actvities. Walter
initiated a move of activity source code to github. The apparent
goal of this initiative is to deal with the fact that the original
contributor of most activities is no longer activie. Moving the
source to github has no technical basis (the source code for an
activity is in the xo bundle and has the advantage of being the
code actually executed on the device. It is to open up maintenance
of the activities to any member of the community - something not
possible in the ASLO process.</p>
<p>One of the problems in ASLO is that the activity is claimed to
work with all versions of Sugar bewteen 0.82 and 0.104 - something
which not verifiable and probably not true. <br>
</p>
<p>One option is to assert that activities work on 0.110 and 0.112
since that assertion can be tested. We could have an LTS version
of Sugar and assert that activities will be updated to work on
that version over a period of time. Along with this we need a help
line (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:help@sugarlabs.org">help@sugarlabs.org</a> where users can report problems or ask
how to accomplish a particular task, or to request a new
capability. This could be monitored by experienced users (support
gang). This technique was accomplished for OLPC by Adam Holt and
was one of the most important factors in expanding use of the XO.</p>
<p>Tony<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday, 25 May, 2018 01:56 AM, Alex
Perez wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:5B06FCC3.7020307@alexperez.com">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Folks,<br>
<br>
These attitudes are totally unhelpful, and I urge you to drop it,
stop hurling insults. To be honest, I think both of you have valid
points, and for the time being, I am not a fan of shutting down
the legacy ASLO, until we have data that it's _really_ not being
used. Removing the link from the landing page of the next version
of sugar is a different thing entirely, so let's not conflate
them. The deployed base on XO machines is largely running very old
versions of Sugar, and many of those activities likely work fine
with those old versions of Sugar. This is something I do not think
James is considering, but perhaps I'm wrong.<br>
<br>
We have access logs for ASLO. We can easily determine how often,
and which, activities are downloaded. I do not personally know
which server. <br>
<br>
What we may lack, metric-wise, is what the version of Sugar on the
client machine is. Is this encoded into the user agent of the
custom browser, by chance? I assume not, but it's worth asking the
question.<br>
<span>
</span><br>
<blockquote style="border: 0px none;"
cite="mid:2fbce659-0699-1c65-7dea-ffb6a69af70b@usa.net"
type="cite">
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr">
<div style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid
#EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;">Tony Anderson</a></div>
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span
style="padding-left:6px">May 23, 2018 at 11:27 PM</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">James Cameron's
devotion to alternate facts is what is amusing (actually sad).
The only way Sugar users can access activities not already
installed is by ASLO (unless we have some really carefully
hidden source).
<br>
<br>
Tony
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
Sugar-devel mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
<br>
</div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr">
<div style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid
#EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org"
style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;">James Cameron</a></div>
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span
style="padding-left:6px">May 23, 2018 at 5:54 PM</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<pre wrap="">Copyright on the source code of these activities is held by their
original authors, and not by Sugar Labs.
The ASLO process is a distribution of software by Sugar Labs, and the
licenses are in the source code bundles. It makes no real difference
what was entered into ASLO as metadata, what matters is the copyright
and license declaration in the source code.
Up until last year, ASLO did not require a license. A pending change
to ASLO had not been put into production. Since that change, each new
upload to ASLO has had to have a license field added if there wasn't
one. But again, this license field is only a summary, and has little
bearing. What matters is the copyright and license in the source.
Whether Sugar Labs has received a letter or not is immaterial; but as
a distributor Sugar Labs need only check that the license is
acceptable before distributing.
One of the issues at hand is bundling of TurtleBlocksJS inside
Sugarizer. Sugarizer does not use ASLO, so what ASLO did or does is
immaterial.
TurtleBlocksJS is AGPLv3+ in js/activity.js, has bundled source of
various other licenses, and has no license metadata in activity.info.
I agree that one solution is for the authors of TurtleBlocksJS to
relicense their work to one more compatible with Sugarizer's Apache
2.0 license. Another is for Sugarizer to relicense. Best would be a
path from AGPLv3+ to Apache 2.0; I've not found one yet.
Perhaps the new availability of Scratch on Sugarizer reduces the demand
for TurtleBlocksJS.
I certainly don't agree with Tony's suggestion there has been
arbitrary choice of license in GitHub repositories, and have acted and
will act to change any incorrect choice.
The other issue of porting from Python to JavaScript is creating a
derivative work, so the original license does apply.
If the source license is GPLv2 then ask the original copyright owner
to relicense as GPLv2+ or GPLv3+. If they cannot be contacted, stop.
If the source license is GPLv2+, then anyone can relicense as GPLv3+,
though it is convenient to ask the original copyright owners to
agree.
If the source license is GPLv3+, then anyone can relicense as Apache
2.0.
For the keeping of good records, these relicensing actions should be
commits with the intent clearly stated in commit messages.
Tony's insistence on ASLO continues to amuse me. Most distribution of
activities now happens through bundles, tarballs, and GitHub. ASLO is
rarely used by distributors or indeed useful for anything except
personal searches for broken activities. Tony's numbers make it
plain. My own plan is to remove the link to "activities" in Browse
default page; plenty of disk space these days to include all working
activities in a build.
On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 08:02:30AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The bulk of the Sugar Activities were contributed through the ASLO process.
This process assumes that the contributor is the copyright-holder. The
contributor was asked to specify a license. Unfortunately that selection is not
displayed on ASLO. Therefore, it is likely that the license clause in the
activities in Github were arbitrarily chosen.
If SugarLabs has not received a letter from a lawyer in 10 years probably means
that there is no objection or that the copyright holder sees our use as fair
use.
If gplv3 is ok, it would seem that turtleblocks.js needs to change license to
gpl3 - something that Walter is fully authorized to do.
Tony
On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 07:46 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
Thank you!
On Wed, May 23, 2018, 7:03 PM Adam Holt <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[1]holt@laptop.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><[1]holt@laptop.org></a> wrote:
On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Walter Bender <[2]
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">walter.bender@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
We are struggling with a licensing question [1] and were hoping
that the SFC might be able to advise us. Can you please reach out
to them in your role as liaison?
I've emailed Karen Sandler (SFConservancy) asking how/who we should
approach -
Adam
thx
-walter
[1] [3]<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/issues/48" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/issues/48</a>
--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
[4]<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a>
--
[5]Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ [6]<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://" moz-do-not-send="true">http://</a>
unleashkids.org !
_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:7]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">7]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
[8]<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
References:
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:holt@laptop.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:holt@laptop.org</a>
[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com</a>
[3] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/issues/48" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/issues/48</a>
[4] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sugarlabs.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.sugarlabs.org/</a>
[5] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sugarlabs.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.sugarlabs.org/</a>
[6] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://unleashkids.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://unleashkids.org/</a>
[7] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
[8] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
</pre>
</div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr">
<div style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid
#EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;">Tony Anderson</a></div>
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span
style="padding-left:6px">May 23, 2018 at 5:02 PM</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The bulk of the Sugar Activities
were contributed through the ASLO process. This process
assumes that the contributor is the copyright-holder. The
contributor was asked to specify a license. Unfortunately
that selection is not displayed on ASLO. Therefore, it is
likely that the license clause in the activities in Github
were arbitrarily chosen.<br>
<br>
If SugarLabs has not received a letter from a lawyer in 10
years probably means that there is no objection or that the
copyright holder sees our use as fair use.<br>
<br>
If gplv3 is ok, it would seem that turtleblocks.js needs to
change license to gpl3 - something that Walter is fully
authorized to do.<br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thursday, 24 May, 2018 07:46 AM, Walter Bender wrote:<br>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>
Sugar-devel mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr">
<div style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid
#EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com"
style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;">Walter Bender</a></div>
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span
style="padding-left:6px">May 23, 2018 at 4:46 PM</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<div dir="auto">Thank you! </div>
<br>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>
Sugar-devel mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr">
<div style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid
#EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:holt@laptop.org"
style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;">Adam Holt</a></div>
<div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span
style="padding-left:6px">May 23, 2018 at 4:03 PM</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Walter Bender
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank" href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com">walter.bender@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">We are struggling with a licensing
question [1] and were hoping that the SFC might be
able to advise us. Can you please reach out to them
in your role as liaison?</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've emailed Karen Sandler (SFConservancy) asking
how/who we should approach -</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>thx</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-walter<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/issues/48">https://github.com/llaske/<wbr>sugarizer/issues/48</a><span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br
clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div
class="m_-3937685500062003141gmail_signature"
dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font><font>Walter Bender</font></font><br>
<font><font>Sugar Labs</font></font></div>
<div><font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.sugarlabs.org"><font>http://www.sugarlabs.org<br
clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
</font></a><font>
<div
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"
class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.sugarlabs.org">Unsung
Heroes of OLPC, interviewed
live @ </a><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="http://unleashkids.org">http://unleashkids.org</a>
!</div>
</div>
</font></font></div>
</div>
<font><font>
</font></font></div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<div>Sent from <a
href="https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=siglink&utm_campaign=reach"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color: rgb(0, 157,
247);">Postbox</span></a></div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>