<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi, Sam<br>
<br>
Who are we to judge whether a user's name is good or bad? Suppose
the user just decides to name his project a, b, c and so on. That is
the user's decision and so be it. <br>
<br>
Regardless of the wording, the alert does not save a document until
the user gives it a name. If the user does not care about the
document enough to give it a name, there is probably a reason. For
example, if I were to launch Paint to show selecting a color for a
brush, I would have no reason to save the scribble.<br>
<br>
To repeat, we need to consider this from the viewpoint of the user.
The user click on the Stop button to quit the activity. The alert
should result in terminating the activity whether the document is
saved or not.<br>
<br>
I believe the alert should offer two options: save and quit.
Overwrite, delete, discard and so forth refer to the deveoper's
perspective of what action is taken.<br>
<br>
Again, the jobject is overwritten by Sugar - a defect. This feature
creates a 'clone' of the original jobject and so is able to save it
or not at quit time.<br>
<br>
This logic is used in the 'fiddler' implementation. It takes a
moment to move the cursor to the entry, type an entry, and click
save. Users will understand the value of this by using the Journal.
<br>
<br>
The children
I have observed using Sugar would for sure spend longer closing and
switching
between activities without any benefit from this modal alert."<br>
<br>
The alert only appears when the activity is closed not when
switching between activities. The modal alert gives the user a
chance to give his project a title - I consider that very
beneficial. The alternative is for the user to open the activity
palette and change the name there. The other alternative is for the
user to switch to the Journal and change 'Write.activity' to
'Bolivar report'. <br>
<br>
Currently it is needed for all activities, because we are using the
'document' saving as a catch-all. I have seen activities whose
'write_file' writes a dummy file to satisfy the 'best practice'
that all activities must have a write_file. Activities such as
Memorize or Read, and Browse should save state information in the
metadata which would allow them to be resumed. These activities do
not save a meaningful document. Memorize is clear, it saves state.
Read is clear, it does not alter the source e-book and only saves
bookmark information - state. Browse saves the urls for open tabs -
again state information. <br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/12/2016 12:59 AM, Sam Parkinson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1468277995.2020.1@smtp.gmail.com" type="cite">
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Martin Dengler
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martin@martindengler.com"><martin@martindengler.com></a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="plaintext" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 05:18:00PM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
<blockquote>Hi Martin,
It seems to be nostalgia week. The goal is to have the user supply a name. Whether the text says untitled, Write.activity, execrable, or is left blank. The user will not be able to save until a title is supplied. There would be literally no 'untitled' or 'Write.activity' documents in the Journal.
</blockquote>
This design decision of not forcing the user to name an activity has literally
been consciously made since the first deployment of Sugar:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2008-October/009151.html">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2008-October/009151.html</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3225">http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/3225</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2008-October/009157.html">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2008-October/009157.html</a>
("Sugar default naming scheme")
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2008-October/009152.html">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2008-October/009152.html</a>
The has many nuances, so I don't want to be the penut gallery too much, but it
seems to me that forcing kids to name activity instances upon closing[1] would
seriously change (for the worse, IMO) the Sugar user experience. Is it only going
to be some activities, like Write, that require (or default to) this? Are you
sure you want to undo/change these very old design decisions?</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
I agree with you. I believe that there is a lot of value in
reminding the user to set a name - showing the alert as the
current patch does. But I don't think that we should force the
user to set a name - they will only set a bad name, and they will
feel like Sugar is working against them.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that the current implementation of the "Choose a
name" alert is fine. It serves as a gentle reminder.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here are some of my questions about the design:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would also propose that the "cancel" button in the "choose
a name" alert change to being a "delete" button. (This was my
original understadngin of the project). Having a delete button
there helps reduce journal clutter by making it easy to delete
the object if it is un-needed. For example, if I made a write
activity to take a note, and then decide that I don't want to
keep it, I can just click "delete" instead of setting a title.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What is the purpose of the "overwrite" alert? I thought that
the overwhelmingly most common use case would just be saving (or
"overwriting"). Does overwrite seem a little scary? It did to
me.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, does the jobject get overwrite by the autosave
functions in Sugar, regardless of the user's choice in the
overwrite alert?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Sam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="plaintext" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">
Martin
1. My interpretation of the hypothetical proposals in "Sugar Journal save
option" on <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2016">https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2016</a> and the video on
the "Save As" patch at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcvBH7zzFBo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcvBH7zzFBo</a> .
<blockquote>
Tony
On 07/11/2016 04:56 PM, Martin Dengler wrote:
<blockquote>
On 11 Jul 2016, at 15:44, Dave Crossland <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dave@lab6.com">dave@lab6.com</a> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dave@lab6.com">mailto:dave@lab6.com</a>>> wrote:
<blockquote>
On 11 July 2016 at 10:40, Tony Anderson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net">tony_anderson@usa.net</a> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net">mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net</a>>> wrote:
I prefer 'Untitled' as it supports the intent of the alert - to
request the user to supply a title.
I also prefer Untitled, although I'm curious to hear why "xxx Activity" would be better.
</blockquote>
Actually, 500 "Untitled"s are so much worse than 5 sets of 100 "Foo.activity", because (in my limited experience) kids who can read know that "Speak activity" is different than "Write activity".
There are literally over a hundred emails about this design decision years back - it was not done lightly. I didn't even participate and I was exhausted by the debate.
Martin
_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</blockquote></div>
<div class="plaintext" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">_______________________________________________
Sugar-devel mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org">Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>