<div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr">Hi everyone... I'm in the Unicode Consortium so I'm happy to help work out i18n tech issues in our Sugary ecosystem.</p><p dir="ltr">On the original point, I agree with Tony that it would be valuable to hire an i18n/l10n point person. This funding has been around for a while without any one person responsible for shipping it. You might want additional support or conversation, from Open Technology Fund, Localization Lab, or Adobe, for the position and workshops.<br>I'd like to see some people narrowing down where they know we need a translation. If you can say <i>I know a teacher who wants this </i>or<i> we use this activity in Language A and want it in Language B, </i>we should be able to deliver that. There are interesting politics and discussions here, but the funding is for translating and not for not-translating.</p><p dir="ltr">Technology side: it matters if you're translating Sugar, core Sugar activities, additional activities, or Sugarizer. This is essential because they're different programs at different levels of completeness, in use by different people.<br>- Sugar and core activities have been ready from the beginning using gettext and accepting translations on Pootle. I don't see that changing, unless we want to use GitHub to reach younger developers.<br>- Additional activities: you would need to look on a case-by-case basis, to see if text was hardcoded. Also you need special attention if language is part of the activity, as in typing tutors, flipbooks, or crossword puzzles. Tangential blog post: <a href="https://medium.com/@mapmeld/crosswords-in-burmese-f672ae583649">https://medium.com/@mapmeld/crosswords-in-burmese-f672ae583649</a> <br>- I did some research, and Sugarizer has three translation files, including this master file: <a href="https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/blob/master/locale.ini">https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer/blob/master/locale.ini</a> Other web-based activities should use Polyglot.js from Airbnb; it's cool.<br></p><p dir="ltr">Nick</p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Caryl Bigenho <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:caryl@laptop.org" target="_blank">caryl@laptop.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div><div dir="ltr"><p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Hi Folks</font></p><p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3"><br></font></p><p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">Here are some thoughts on Internationalization and Localization...</font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br></font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">1) The most important consideration is what the local people really want… not what we think they want or think they should want. Maybe they are happy with English. On the other hand, maybe they would prefer their own local language (or dialect). Don't assume anything. Don't ask just one person. Ask enough people to get a genuine consensus.</font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br></font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">2) Using students to provide localization is an excellent educational activity. However, it needs to be overseen by an "expert" (maybe their teacher) to insure it is both accurate and appropriate before submission to Pootle. </font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br></font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">3) The Spanish of Mexico is slightly different from the Spanish of Peru and/or the Spanish of Argentina (etc., etc,, etc). Using students for localization could be helpful here and, I'm sure for other languages.</font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br></font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">4) Again, for Spanish… why not look to our largest Sugar deployment, Uruguay, for enlisting students to help? One of the SLOBs (José Miguel García) is Uruguayan as is super-star teacher Rosamel Ramirez.</font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><font size="3"><br></font></p> <p style="font-family:Helvetica"><font size="3">5) Applying to GSOC for help in any aspect with this work seems like a "no brainer" but the deadline for applications for 2016 was yesterday! </font><font size="4"><img src="https://a.gfx.ms/Emoji_1F61E.png" alt="Emoji" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></font></p> <p style="font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica;min-height:14px"><br></p>Caryl<br><div><hr>Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:44:28 -0500<br>Subject: Re: Translations<br>From: <a href="mailto:sora@unleashkids.org" target="_blank">sora@unleashkids.org</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org" target="_blank">holt@laptop.org</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" target="_blank">tony_anderson@usa.net</a>; <a href="mailto:tim@timmoody.com" target="_blank">tim@timmoody.com</a>; <a href="mailto:ndoiron@mapmeld.com" target="_blank">ndoiron@mapmeld.com</a>; <a href="mailto:caryl@laptop.org" target="_blank">caryl@laptop.org</a>; <a href="mailto:sverma@sfsu.edu" target="_blank">sverma@sfsu.edu</a>; <a href="mailto:sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org</a>; <a href="mailto:localization@lists.laptop.org" target="_blank">localization@lists.laptop.org</a>; <a href="mailto:walter@sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">walter@sugarlabs.org</a>; <a href="mailto:slobs@lists.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">slobs@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><div><div class="h5"><br><br><div dir="ltr">The success of the first translation will depend on how established / knowledgeable the local community is. Reviewing the first round of Haitian Creole translations, which I think were done by volunteers, you notice some obvious problems, like inconsistent terms. I've personally seen students and teachers become confused by these issues when using the computer. They keep using it anyway, but it definitely affects the user experience. Now, hopefully the attitude of "this is the wrong way to say it" will inspire the next round of volunteers to do a better translation - but that's a big assumption to make. <div><br></div><div>I think it's important to remember that in many of these places, language ideology is something communities are working through. All the research supports literacy / learning in the mother-tongue language, but in many places the languages kids speak at home are seen as inferior to the ones they learn in school - not just because the one they learn in school is more widely-spoken, but because of myths that the language spoken at home is not "advanced" enough to study something like science / math / tech. </div><div><br></div><div>So, basically, if the first translation is not adequate, there may not be a second translation. People may decide "This language is not adequate for using the computer" instead "Our translation is not adequate; let's make it better."'</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div><br><div>On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Adam Holt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org" target="_blank">holt@laptop.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Excellent food for thought Tony!</p> <p dir="ltr">+Sora, Tim, Nick, Caryl to see if they have ideas/suggestions below?</p> <div>On Feb 20, 2016 3:35 AM, "Tony Anderson" <<a href="mailto:tony_anderson@usa.net" target="_blank">tony_anderson@usa.net</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">As I understand the issue: SugarLabs has some funds available to support translation of Sugar. At the SLOBs meeting, it was proposed that<br> SugarLabs recruit a 'translation manager', a possibly paid position. One question is the job description for this role.<br> <br> I would like to review the translation process:<br> <br> Translation has two separate parts: internationalization(I18n) and localization (L10n).<br> <br> The Sugar-Devel team is responsible for I18n (preparing the framework to support localization) and the community is responsible for L10n - providing translations (by default, from English) to other languages.<br> <br> The immediate focus is on using Pootle as the I18n framework with translators providing the localization.<br> <br> Let's divide the languages into three groups:<br> <br> - English (the base language)<br> <br> - Mediums of instruction (languages used at deployments as a common language where more than one language is spoken)<br> <br> - Local language (languages used by students at home)<br> <br> When a new Sugar release is made, the Pootle English master files should be a part of the release. Sugar development should ensure that Pootle files are available for all software in the release.<br> <br> Sugar may want to provide localization for one or more mediums of instruction (e.g. Spanish, French, Arabic). Since this would imply that<br> files for these localizations are available at release, SugarLabs should decide which, if any, of these languages are to be supported.<br> <br> Deployments (or deployment sponsors) may need localization of Sugar for specific local languages (e.g. Kinyarwanda, Haitian Creole,<br> Sotho, Xhosa). I believe these localizations are most likely to come from Sugar/XO deployments where the language is used. Some would<br> seem to be a given - Cambodian.<br> <br> However, strange things happen. For example, Rwanda is one of the largest and most active deployments. However, there is no Kinyarwanda localization. The reason is probably that in Rwanda the OLPC laptops are part of a path to English. They are introduced at the fourth grade, the first year when the required medium of instruction is English. While Kinyarwanda is a subject in grades 4-6, the priority is using the XOs to facilitate learning in English, Mathematics, and Science.<br> <br> I believe that the Pootle files are distributed and installed with the released image. This should mean that XO users who know English and the native language could provide the localization. Once it is complete, the files can be installed on the XOs at the deployment and the localization would be available at the deployment. Ideally, localization would be done by the students as a learning activity. For example, in Rwanda, localization to Kinyarwanda would help students a lot in learning English. Sameer Verma has provided an excellent tutorial on how to do localization which could be included in the Sugar image.<br> <br> So, the translation manager would be responsible to identify deployments which use specific local languages and work with them to organize 'L10n' days for new releases. The translation manager should then interface with Pootle to submit the localization files for review and acceptance by Pootle.<br> <br> Sugar development could review Sugar (Python) activities to see if they support Pootle and attempt, eg. through GSOC, to get activities upgraded to implement Pootle and to include a base set of English Pootle files.<br> <br> Perhaps OLPC France could be tasked to provide French localization as part of the release process. For Spanish, perhaps Sebastian Silva (Peru) or Plan Ceibal could accept responsibility for Spanish.<br> <br> Meanwhile, being on the other side of the world, I have not made progress on getting a committee to help put their two cents in on this. Clearly, this scenario must be reviewed for Floss Manuals, Sugarizer, and other SugarLabs products which don't fit in this one. Also, how to provide localization of IIAB-2 content is, at least, a formidable question.<br> <br> Tony<br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div> </div></div> </blockquote></div><br></div>