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Hi Sam,<br>
<br>
I am still not clear on the status. I have a long-dormant activity
'bingo' which depends on the caller sending 'bingo cards', receiving
a 'bingo call', and being able to check the card via collaboration.
In developing those features, should I use the collab wrapper? Is it
available for 0.106? Where can I find the version of <br>
chat that uses it as an example to follow? The version installed on
0.106 (13.2.5) does not seem to use it.<br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/26/2015 01:55 AM, Gonzalo Odiard
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJ+iPVT8=Ejxc8RCoX5S_MjaLnnA1AMcvR2VFZnzffLfdt_HLw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Martin,
<div>I like your proposal of use the wrapper in the activities
by at least one cycle, before include it in the toolkit.</div>
<div>In our experience, once the code is included in the
toolkit, is difficult make changes without breaking activities
in</div>
<div>unexpected ways.</div>
<div>I didn't have time to make tests with the wrapper, and is
really difficult do tests for collaboration. We have seen</div>
<div>bugs that appear only when you have many computers, or
using jabber but not when using the mesh, etc.</div>
<div>I think the wrapper is a very, very good start (Thanks Sam
and Walter) and even they provided patches for some
activities.</div>
<div>Sadly, some of the activities are on my hands, but I didn't
have time the last months to do the proper testing</div>
<div>and integration of the patches.</div>
<div>About the wrapper API, just looking at the code, I think
would be better add a callback parameter to the setup() method</div>
<div>because the initialization is async and then is the only
way to execute your activity code when the initialization</div>
<div>has finished. Issues like this are difficult to get right
at the first time.</div>
<div>I know I am not doing almost any work in sugar these
months, don't take these comments as a critic,</div>
<div>just as a way to try to help, and avoid problems in the
future.</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Gonzalo</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Martin
Abente <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:martin.abente.lahaye@gmail.com"
target="_blank">martin.abente.lahaye@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hello everyone,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have been reviewing the current state of the
collaboration proposals and I am afraid it is still too
early for merging it. We need to explore more use cases,
and this will only happens when we start porting more
Activities that actually use TUBES. Therefore, i want to
share some thoughts on this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Opinions:</b></div>
<div>
<ol>
<li>There haven't been enough changes in the
Activities regarding Tubes deprecation.<br>
</li>
<li>Dropping the Tubes support from Sugar without
changing all the activities that depend on Tubes
means that we will break collaboration for those
activities anyway, and there wont be much gain by
just doing that.<br>
</li>
<li>Making changes in the Sugar API without proper
testing with more activities (and scenarios) is
simply not a good idea.<br>
</li>
<li>But, making changes in the Activities can be
easily handled since they are self contained.<br>
</li>
<li>Most of our users still use Fedora 18 through OLPC
deployments, where Tubes is available.</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><b>Suggestions:</b></div>
<div>
<ol>
<li>Lets make Sugar handle the Tubes deprecation
better so it doesn't break, but lets not remove the
support for TUBES yet.<br>
</li>
<li>Instead, we can start changing the activities
using the Wrapper that Walter and Sam prepared, but
using it locally on each Activity for now.<br>
</li>
<li>Once and if, we have most of our activities ported
to the new telepathy API (which will be based on the
Wrapper), then we can include the Wrapper into
sugar-toolkit-gtk3, in a next release and remove it
from Activities.</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><b>Pros:</b></div>
<div>
<ol>
<li>We avoid breaking collaboration for <b>(a)</b>
Activities that use TUBES and run on older systems
where TUBES is available, and <b>(b)</b> Activities
that does not use TUBES on newer systems where TUBES
is no longer available. This _is_ an improvement
versus the current situation where is completely
broken on newer systems.</li>
<li>We do this whole re-work incrementally, without
having to change the API (sort of) blindly.<br>
</li>
<li>There will be more flexibility to explore ideas in
Activities land.</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><b>Cons:</b></div>
<div>
<ol>
<li>There will be repeated code in Activities, but
that can be changed easily later.<br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>What would be needed:</b></div>
<div>
<ol>
<li>To detect if there is TUBES support, as Sam
mentioned in his first PR [1]. <b>Can someone look
into this?</b><br>
</li>
<li>Do not create TUBES channel when there is not
support. This [2] is just a hack and the logic works
fine, but it depends on whether or not we can detect
support.</li>
<li>Cleanup the Wrapper and make sure that it is
possible to use it locally in activities.</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><b>Other improvements that we could land now:</b></div>
<div>
<ol>
<li>Give more flexibility to activities to use file
transfer channels without having the shell messing
with them. [3]</li>
</ol>
</div>
<div><b>Conclusions:</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we don't do something about this, next Sugar
releases will still be broken for collaboration, for
more scenarios than necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me know what you guys think,<br>
</div>
<div>Martin.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Refs:</b></div>
<div>[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/pull/270"
target="_blank">https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/pull/270</a></div>
<div>[2] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/tchx84/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/commit/bed0ac5f4259ff1669323db26acb27f5d9c8ed1f"
target="_blank">https://github.com/tchx84/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/commit/bed0ac5f4259ff1669323db26acb27f5d9c8ed1f</a></div>
<div>[3] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/621"
target="_blank">https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/621</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Gonzalo Odiard<br>
<br>
<div>SugarLabs - Software [for | by] children learning <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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