<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/05/15 09:01, Tony Anderson wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:55647CC0.4090209@usa.net" type="cite">My confusion was the reference to pippy for writing web apps. I assume the reference to Flask was to the availability of Python packages to install. My remarks were that it would be difficult to set up Flask or Django on a school server and have students create applications from a systems administration point of view. </blockquote> I think you are overcomplicating the task. Here is a simple hello world in Flask+HTML: <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"> <pre style="font-size: 15px; font-family: Consolas, Menlo, 'Deja Vu Sans Mono', 'Bitstream Vera Sans Mono', monospace !important; padding: 7px 30px; margin: 15px -30px; line-height: 1.3; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background: rgb(238, 238, 238);">from flask import Flask app = Flask(__name__) @app.route("/") def hello(): return "<html><body>Hello World!</body></html>" if __name__ == "__main__": app.run()</pre> You can run this and visit <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://localhost:5000/">http://localhost:5000/</a> from any browser. No need on a server until you need to deploy a finished app. <blockquote cite="mid:55647CC0.4090209@usa.net" type="cite"> At some point, students learning to program should understand message-passing whether between processes or between server and client. My leaning is to a 'bare bones' approach, not basing the learning on a framework intended to make the mechanics invisible. That can come later as the student develops experience and an understanding of work flow. </blockquote> I do think a little hand holding can't hurt. IMHO that's what Sugar is about. <blockquote cite="mid:55647CC0.4090209@usa.net" type="cite"> I am not sure I understand the distinction between exploration and production in this context. At my last workshop, we needed to use GIMP to crop and resize images. Naturally we could have used GIMP in Sugar from the command line. Using GIMP to crop images is certainly production, although needed in a context of exploration (printing booklets). </blockquote> I think we have a confusion of terms here. I consider production a program which is ready for deployment (to users). I wasn't referring to producing artifacts. BTW the Gimp works fine under Sugar, only missing the ability to be launched from an icon. I find the prospect of writing wrappers for every GNU/Linux program absurd and hope Sugar will eventually be a well behaving freedesktop environment with good scaffolding in specific areas. I am not eager to launch children into a standard desktop to prepare them to be information workers of today. I'd rather we keep the simple, collaborative, expressive environment even for adults, to become creative thinkers and playful with technology. Regards, Sebastian <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- I+D SomosAzucar.Org "icarito" #somosazucar en Freenode IRC "Nadie libera a nadie, nadie se libera solo. Los seres humanos se liberan en comunión" - P. Freire</pre> </body> </html>