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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Daniel,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your thoughtful answer. I reply inline to the issues
raised.<br>
<br>
El 18/11/13 08:30, Daniel Narvaez escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Hi Sebastian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would be really useful if you could give some more
informations on the performance issues you have been seeing</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- What is slow exactly?</div>
</blockquote>
Initial startup, switch between activities, activity startup. Also
probably redraw after widget damage e.g. the Frame appears. Then
again it's hard to pinpoint exactly, just out of memory now.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>- Why do you believe it's an issue with low level libraries
(and which libraries)?</div>
</blockquote>
I like to dogfood. I do all my work on a low end atom netbook. I
have observed in my own use how applications ported to GTK3 have
degraded performance (e.g. Evince, Gnumeric). I have come to expect
this, really as I experienced the same thing when moving as a user
from GTK1 to GTK2.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>- Did you profile?</div>
</blockquote>
Nope, but our images are still in beta and I'd be willing to profile
and share the results by default. If it will help then we can have a
metric.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please don't assume people knows what they are talking about
when they speak about performance, unless they back up their
claims with profiling data, especially if they are
just saying things are "lighter" and base a toolkit switch on
that!</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm sure that they at least carefully measured the memory usage. On
XO1 this is critical with only 256mb ram. Also the OS by default has
no swap.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
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<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know fairly well what changed between gtk2 and gtk3 and I
have a very very hard time believing it introduced unfixable
regressions. By design things should have improved, as far as I
know. The problem is probably more that, as usual, the
performance of the system developers works with has improved,
thus with changes comes regressions that are not noticed. And
the only way to counter that is to profile and fix the
real issues...</div>
</blockquote>
Understood. However it's a little out of my league, I admit. I tend
to focus on serving low hanging fruit in a user friendly plate. This
is why distributions interest me so much.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm personally going to focus on newer hardware, but then
isn't XO 1 most of our user base currently? It seems we need to
balance research and continued support here... Also note that
the new hardware isn't going to be blazing fast either, the
issue we find there are most likely very similar to the ones on
the XO 1, just to a lesser scale. If we improve XO 1, other
hardware will most likely improve too.</div>
</blockquote>
Yes, only in newer hardware the impression that the Sugar user
experience is not very good is not really related to performance, or
at least, not primarily.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANTHhvZCDsL47Y+8Z=mwp8wS2H5U_TQxx3KsG2kMaZY0GvOw1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think we need to get much better collectively at working on
performance, it's a key aspect of the kind of hardware we are
targeting and my feeling is that a lot of people don't like
Sugar mostly because it's so slow...</div>
</blockquote>
A platform is about the applications available to it. Sugar in my
opinion has issues here as well. I tend to concur with Flavio that
some aesthetics rework wouldn't hurt either. For what it's worth I
always found interesting what the advertising firm that worked on
Sugar published in their website:
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<a
href="http://new.pentagram.com/2006/12/new-work-one-laptop-per-child/">http://new.pentagram.com/2006/12/new-work-one-laptop-per-child/</a><br>
<br>
On the topic of aesthetics, it's interesting to see what even
happens with adding a compositor (in metacity's gconf key) and
changing some colors in style.py<br>
I recently noticed that in ancient versions (pre 0.82) the Journal
items were separated with a thin line. This helped readability and
gave the sense that each line was an object.<br>
<br>
Maybe I just went off topic (again) but now that we are sharing...<br>
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<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
Daniel Narvaez<br>
<br>
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