<html> <head> <style></style> </head> <body class='hmmessage'> The link to<a href="http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf%20"> http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf </a>is broken I tried to locate the pdf here<a href=":http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/">:http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/</a> but couldn't find it > From: sugar-devel-request@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24 > To: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:00:08 -0500 > > Send Sugar-devel mailing list submissions to > sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sugar-devel-request@lists.sugarlabs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sugar-devel-owner@lists.sugarlabs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Sugar-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [DESIGN] Messages notification (Martin Dengler) > 2. Re: More new and revised chapters of "Make Your Own Sugar > Activities!" ready for review, feedback (Aleksey Lim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 02:06:54 +0000 > From: Martin Dengler <martin@martindengler.com> > To: Martin Abente <martin.abente.lahaye@gmail.com> > Cc: sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Messages notification > Message-ID: <20101107020654.GT4822@ops-13.xades.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 03:07:29AM -0300, Martin Abente wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Martin Dengler <martin@martindengler.com>wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 06:02:28PM -0300, Martin Abente wrote: > > > > Hello amigos, > > > > > > > > Recently I encountered many situations where a system-wide > > > > notification-messages system is required as a basis for many bug fixes or > > > > enhancements. > > > [...] > > > > Currently, Sugar does not have a mechanism to communicate to users > > > > different kind of information about sugar itself. > > > > > > What about the notification system? The Log activity? The Journal > > > Full warning? The Frame? There are a lot of communication > > > mechanisms, but they dn't seem to do what you wnat: > > > > > > > > > > * The notification system only shows an icon floating, and if you want to > > show a message you have to implement a palette manually, not so DRY > > considering all the use cases. > > I'm not sure what you mean by "DRY". The reason - I guess - for only > the icon is because text requires translation and literacy (a point > you make later). I prefer text (obviously, since we developers work > with text as much as possible) but this requires a change to the HIG. > We should think hard about why, and justify it. > > > * Why the user should start an activity to know what is happening? > > I know, this is odd for developers/computer people. I personally > don't like it (I really liked the "quake terminal"[1] approach), or > having four activities to read e-books. But a) it's what the HIG[2] > says, for some good reasons (it's not better to have text flashing by > all the time -- have you seen how many exceptions are in shell.log!?); > and b) it's not a new approach: OSX has the "Console" log viewer, > Windows has the Event Viewer. > > > Even if they do, do you think all that pile of text is really > > helpful? (for a developer, sure.. for a 7 years kid probably not, > > and if you want him to understand you would have to translate the > > log messages anyway). > > Wait, that's my argument you just stole :). > > If you're saying the error messages should be better, I don't think > anyone would disagree. > > > * The journal full warning is actually a problem to be solved, #630. > > Wow, I can't believe it's taken 20 months to fix it. I guess it's not > that critical :(. > > > * What about the frame?, currently it > > does nothing about this issue. (except for the floating pulsing > > icon) > > That's exactly what you wanted, but with icons instead of text: a list > of the messages from Sugar, without starting an activity. > > > Again, why should we force users to start an activity to know what is > > happening. > > To summarise: > > 1) Because the HIG tells us to, and nobody's proposing changing the > HIG > 2) Because Sugar UI should strive for simplicity, not tons of alerts > that only a developer would understand > 3) Because it's not clear what advantage over the existing > notifications + Log activity you think will exist. > > > > > I invite everyone to share their ideas on how this feature could > > > > work and look. > > Well, those were my ideas. When you have something more I'm sure we > could have a more constructive discussion. > > > We need sugar to tell the users what is happening otherwise they will never > > guess it, that is exactly problem in the first place. I can't imagine a kid > > having to check the log activity every 10 minutes to see if the automatic > > backup has started recently. > > I can't imagine any more than a few kids at each deployment (so, > that's say 100 of 1.5 million laptops) ever wanting to see if the > automatic backup has started recently. > > > Anyway, if someone does not like the messages and wants just wants to read > > the log every N minutes they could be disable it :):):) > > In my experience, every time you show some information to the user > that isn't actionable, they hate it. > > > > Saludos > > > > Martin (tch) Abente > > > > > > Martin > > Martin > > 1. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Quake_Terminal > > 2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Human_Interface_Guidelines#Simplicity > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 190 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/attachments/20101107/c7ba54f8/attachment-0001.pgp> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 02:11:51 +0000 > From: Aleksey Lim <alsroot@member.fsf.org> > To: Jim Simmons <nicestep@gmail.com> > Cc: It's An Education Project List <iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org>, Sugar > Devel <sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org>, > discuss@lists.flossmanuals.net, "Community Support Volunteers -- who > help respond to help AT laptop.org" <support-gang@lists.laptop.org> > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] More new and revised chapters of "Make Your > Own Sugar Activities!" ready for review, feedback > Message-ID: <20101107021151.GA3073@antilopa-gnu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 10:35:06AM -0600, Jim Simmons wrote: > > In this latest draft I have added a not quite complete chapter on > > Making Shared Activities. The part that is missing is on using DBus > > Tubes to remotely call methods, and it's missing because I've never > > done it. I do plan to learn how to do this, come up with a decent > > example program (something fancier than Hello Mesh), and write it up > > in the book, but it will take awhile. The new draft is at: > > > > http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf > > > > I found out yesterday that copying code from PDF's, either the OBJAVI! > > version here or the one the Floss Manuals website produces, does NOT > > work. In one case you get garbage and in the second you get code with > > no indents. I have set up a Git repository for the sample code in the > > book and I will change all the references to copying and pasting code > > to "Open file name in the Git project you downloaded". > > > > I actually had to learn things about Activity Sharing to write the new > > chapter, so I am VERY concerned that what I think I learned is > > correct. I don't want to lead anyone astray! > > > > I have reached the point in the book where the stuff I already know is > > pretty much done. From now on I'll be learning as I go. If you've > > been giving this project the benefit of the doubt now is a good time > > to stop doing that. > > > > Thanks, > > > > James Simmons > > I've found minor issue on > http://en.flossmanuals.net/ActivitiesGuideSugar/SugarDebugging > > You can also set the logging level outside your program code using an environment variable. For instance, in Sugar .82 and lower you can start sugar-emulator like this: > SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug sugar-emulator > The way you accomplish the same thing in Sugar .84 and greater is to edit the file ~/.sugar/debug and uncomment the line that sets the SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL. > > "SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug sugar-emulator" will will work in 0.84+ as > well if ~/.sugar/debug doesn't reset SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL, i.e., > ~/.sugar/debug just overrides current values right before launching > sugar. > > -- > Aleksey > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > End of Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24 > ******************************************* </body> </html>