I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying... all I said was "we need more data from the field"<br><br>I am in no way blaming anyone for not getting feedback, on the contrary, I am frustrated that the calls for feediback are not being heard enoguh, and I am well aware of people's efforts to try and get this feedback. What I am saying is that the feedback is not coming through.... does this make sense? Or are you saying the feedback is getting through and I'm just not seeing it?<br>
<br>regards,<br>David<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tomeu@sugarlabs.org">tomeu@sugarlabs.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 15:51, David Van Assche<<a href="mailto:dvanassche@gmail.com">dvanassche@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hmmmm... I have to agree with Christoph here. I didn't really see it as<br>
> being dramatic at all, but quite factual in fact. The western small<br>
> deployments really don't give us any useful stats on what is happening on a<br>
> larger scale in the third world.<br>
<br>
</div>Ok, but will give some other interesting information, or not at all?<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> And its important to acknowledge the<br>
> differences between these, which Christoph listed quite concretely.<br>
<br>
</div>And isn't this stating the obvious?<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> I think<br>
> what may not have come across obviously enough was that we need way more<br>
> data from the field, in places where Sugar is being used on a large scale,<br>
> and this data is just not getting to us. I for one, would love to have some<br>
> cold hard facts about Sugar as used in South America and Africa.<br>
<br>
</div>I'm quite appalled by this, you don't read the mailing lists where we<br>
make regular calls for feedback? Short from taking a plane and<br>
visiting school by school, I don't see what else I can do to get that<br>
feedback.<br>
<br>
You understand Spanish, search the olpc-sur mailing list for posts by<br>
Walter and me and tell here again if we don't ask for feedback.<br>
<br>
It's really frustrating that we are here spending our savings and time<br>
on this project, and not only the people deploying our software don't<br>
want to talk to us despite our requests, but other people still think<br>
we don't want to know about them.<br>
<br>
Frustratedly yours,<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Tomeu<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
> kind Regards,<br>
> David Van Assche<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David Farning <<a href="mailto:dfarning@sugarlabs.org">dfarning@sugarlabs.org</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Christoph<br>
>> Derndorfer<<a href="mailto:e0425826@student.tuwien.ac.at">e0425826@student.tuwien.ac.at</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > Sean DALY schrieb:<br>
>> >> IMHO, close study of small deployments makes them incredibly useful to<br>
>> >> all teachers and Learners. The observations and take-aways need to be<br>
>> >> triaged of course, starting with what can/should be done by Sugar<br>
>> >> Labs, but I am convinced many learnings will benefit large<br>
>> >> deployments. Until reliable means of sharing experiences and feedback<br>
>> >> (polls, questionnaires, council of deployers, etc.) can be put in<br>
>> >> place, microscopic study of a classroom using Sugar is well worth the<br>
>> >> effort, in particular for revealing blockers.<br>
>> >><br>
>> > I'm not sure I really agree with this statement...<br>
>><br>
>> Christoph please keep the dramatic headlines to olpcnews.<br>
>><br>
>> In the above paragraph, Walter notes that many lessons can be learned<br>
>> from controlled environments which can then be applied to larger<br>
>> scaled, less controlled environments.<br>
>><br>
>> Please note, this does not _exclude_ anyone from providing feedback<br>
>> from large scale deployments. Nor does it _prevent_ anyone from<br>
>> creating small scale deployments anywhere in the world. _all_ it<br>
>> states is that it is often cost effective to start small and grow as<br>
>> lessons have been learned.<br>
>><br>
>> And yes, Christoph I _am_ holding your writing to a higher standard.<br>
>> Several times, you have described yourself as the voice of the<br>
>> project.<br>
>><br>
>> david<br>
>><br>
>> > Extrapolating the data and drawing conclusions based on observations in<br>
>> > a trial that represents less than 0,01% of all current Sugar<br>
>> > installations is a risky endeavor at best and a serious mistake at<br>
>> > worst. Even more so when the environment between the trial (in this case<br>
>> > GPA) and the global deployments really couldn't be more different in<br>
>> > just about every way imaginable (SoaS vs. XO, summer classes vs. regular<br>
>> > year-long classes, Boston connectivity vs. Rwanda connectivity, 25<br>
>> > installations in a school vs. 1000 installations in a school, US power<br>
>> > infrastructure vs. Nepali power infrastructure, having a team consisting<br>
>> > of Walter / Greg / Caroline supporting the efforts vs. being lucky to<br>
>> > maybe have a single person who has used a computer before, 25 pupils in<br>
>> > a classroom vs. 80 pupils in a classroom, users that were raised in<br>
>> > urban North America vs. users who don't have electricity at home, and I<br>
>> > could go on...).<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Yes, some of the findings at GPA will indeed be of a broad and general<br>
>> > nature and subsequent actions will benefit all Sugar users. Yes,<br>
>> > projects like in Alabama, Austria, the UK and similar places will be<br>
>> > able to learn many things from the GPA pilot.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > But let's not forget that the current million Sugar users and (if the<br>
>> > reports are to be believed) also the next million Sugar users are much<br>
>> > more likely to be found in Ancash, Kigali or Sichuan rather than Boston,<br>
>> > London or Vienna. And I doubt that you'll find too many schools in those<br>
>> > places that have a profile similar to GPA [1].<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Just my 2 Nepali Rupees,<br>
>> > Christoph<br>
>> ><br>
>> > [1] "The Gardner Pilot Academy is the flagship full-service community<br>
>> > school within the Boston Public Schools (BPS). The school's vision is to<br>
>> > educate the minds and develop the characters of all students in<br>
>> > partnership with families and community. To achieve this GPA provides<br>
>> > high quality teaching along with a range of social, emotional and<br>
>> > enrichment programs delivered by means of partnerships with an array of<br>
>> > community organizations and individuals. Over the past twelve years, GPA<br>
>> > has developed strong associations with four universities, several health<br>
>> > and mental health agencies, the YMCA, and various organizations teaching<br>
>> > visual and performing arts. As one of just 20 pilot schools in the BPS,<br>
>> > GPA is exempt from district mandates. Therefore, GPA has autonomy in the<br>
>> > areas of budget and personnel, along with the freedom to implement<br>
>> > innovative curricula, assessments, and interventions."<br>
>> ><br>
>> > (<a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Gardner_Pilot_Academy#Gardner_Pilot_Academy</a>)<br>
>> ><br>
>> > --<br>
>> > Christoph Derndorfer<br>
>> > co-editor, olpcnews<br>
>> > url: <a href="http://www.olpcnews.com" target="_blank">www.olpcnews.com</a><br>
>> > e-mail: <a href="mailto:christoph@olpcnews.com">christoph@olpcnews.com</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
>> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Stephen Leacock - "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I<br>
> shall some day die, which is not so."<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)<br>
> <a href="mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org">IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep" target="_blank">http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep</a><br>
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><br><a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mike_ditka.html" target="_blank">Mike Ditka</a> - "If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms."