Hoi, the most imporant thing is that we are left with a sense of gratitude of all the great things the leaders that have left have done. In this way we know the history of the project. We also remember that the people who left did good.. and we cherish them for it. We still need to move on and make sure that we do what we aim to do.,, It is gratifying that all roads lead to Rome ... Thanks Walter, thank you all,      GerardM <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <<a href="mailto:smooge@gmail.com">smooge@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="Ih2E3d">On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger <<a href="mailto:cpreimesberger@comcast.net">cpreimesberger@comcast.net</a>> wrote: > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this >  time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project.  Sad to see >  the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. > </div>One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group and the people who identified the project with those people post that the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way of coming up with 'reasons'. I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when a developer I worked under left. The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to disagree on where each group is going. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">_______________________________________________ Community-news mailing list <a href="mailto:Community-news@lists.laptop.org">Community-news@lists.laptop.org</a> <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/community-news" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/community-news</a> </div></div></blockquote></div>