We're not ignorant of the need for some amount of explanation about various aspects of the UI and also some activities.  For the most part, we do feel that the interfaces will offer an immediately usable or at least quickly discoverable experience for most, and this has been true in some early trials with much earlier (and buggier) versions of the software.  Nonetheless, we wouldn't presume that it will be "obvious" to all.  For that matter, some of the advanced functionality that provides the high ceiling in our "low floor, high ceiling" model may actually be less discoverable in favor of a simpler up front experience, and in those cases documentation can be a valuable thing. <div> </div><div>In any event, this project is about both education and community.  These two items should re-factor the way we think about help.  Yes, we'll provide some basic documentation; yes, activity developers will do the same.  But in the long run, it's much more consistent with our goals for the project to create an ever growing community around the laptops and their activities, where children, teachers, and developers alike can post tips, suggestions, formal documentation, images, video, experiences, and tutorials about both software and hardware.  In this way, we can leverage the power of the communities and the children themselves, who are eager to explore and learn, and can learn how to help each other through the process.  By handing out some responsibility, the localization problem can be solved naturally.  Having an evolving system for help also makes a lot of sense when the software is both young and continually changing.  </div><div>We're not neglecting help on principle; we're adjusting our view of the help model in light of the project's mission and goals.</div><div> </div><div>- Eben </div><div> </div><div> <div>On 8/1/07, Ryan Pavlik <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I am not coming up with these ideas, just relaying them.  If you wish for comment by the entire community, including those who know more about it than me, use the "Reply to All" feature of your mail client rather than sending private replies - I am rather unqualified to answer most of your questions. Ryan <a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com"> dthornburg@aol.com</a> wrote: > Dear Ryan, > > I don't doubt the solid pedagogical underpinnings of the OLPC, and > fully endorse the principles.  As the 25th employee at Xerox PARC I > have more than a passing interest in user interfaces, and I applaud > Sugar's innovative approach (and talk about it in many of my > presentations).  That said, my experience using technology with kids > since the 1970's has revealed different levels of "obviousness," and > this is reflected in the many spirited discussions on this list. > Pardon me if it appears that the idea of "obviating the need for > documentation" is slightly hubristic.  There will be some (especially > among the adult decision-making community) who will benefit from some > documentation.  Are you suggesting that (for example) eToys needs no > documentation?  If so how do you explain that the first Smalltalk > documentation consisted of TWO hardbound books published by > Addison-Welsey. > > I am a huge fan of having kids jump into the deep end of new > projects.  I also have found that helpful resources are quite valuable. > > Warm regards, > > David Thornburg, PhD > Director, Global Operations > Thornburg Center > Chicago, USA | Recife, Brasil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan Pavlik <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a>> > To: <a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">dthornburg@aol.com</a>; Sugar Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org"> sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>> > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:57 pm > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs? > > By self-documenting I mean that the interface obviates the need for > documentation, not that it produces written documentation. You might > be interested to look at <a href="http://wiki.laptop.org">http://wiki.laptop.org</a> - it is as much > (more!) an education project as a laptop project, and the educational > theory behind the decision decisions is pretty interesting. > > Ryan > > <a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">dthornburg@aol.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">dthornburg@aol.com</a>> wrote: > > If the OLPC is self-documenting, who is handling this, how much > memory > does it take, and what does the interface look like? It seems > that > this would have come up in conversations by now. > > > > Just asking. > > > > David Thornburg > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ryan Pavlik <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net </a>>> > > To: Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin@gmail.com">echerlin@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:echerlin@gmail.com">echerlin@gmail.com</a>>> > > Cc: <a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org"> sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org">sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>> > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 7:35 pm > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs? > > > > I am certainly not an OLPC rep, but what I have seen suggests that > the > > > intent is for the machines to be self-instructing and not requiring > > > documentation. In addition to the massive translation demands that > > > would require, it also does not coincide with the educational > > > theories/practices that the organization is pursuing. > > > > > > > > Of course, if you want to make developer documentation, then I think > > > anyone's answer would be, dive in! :) Just ask which regions are > stable > > > first so your work doesn't get obsoleted quickly. > > > > > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > > > Is there any plan for official software documentation? I have been > a > > > > Senior Tech Writer for the last 10 years and would be delighted to > > > > work on it (particularly if someone like Red Hat would support me > to > > > > do it 60 hours a week *<{%-{]}}} <--Goggle-eyed geek in clown hat, > > > > moustache, and full beard). Actually, I have been writing about XO > > > > software off and on ever since the Dynabook days, when Xerox > licensed > > > > Smalltalk to Apple, HP, and others in 1981, during my market > research > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > For example, I wrote in a study of so-called educational software > back > > > > then that the overpriced drill-and-practice programs of the time > > > > weren't real educational software, and that what children need is > > > > sharp tools to do stuff with. Commercial educational software is > still > > > > a vast wasteland, with a few honorable exceptions. Then I did a > study > > > > on Personal Instruments (data acquisition and analysis on PCs), and > > > > some other reports that touched on education. Besides starting and > > > > managing a software project for math for schools. And a few other > things. > > > > > > > > > > I have a button that says, "Stop me before I volunteer again," but > it > > > > doesn't help. [sigh] > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Edward Cherlin > > > > > Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit > > > > > <a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go">http://wiki.laptop.org/go</a>/Earth_Treasury > > > > > WIRE AFRICA http//www.wireafrica.org/ <<a href="http://www.wireafrica.org/"> http://www.wireafrica.org/</a>> > <<a href="http://www.wireafrica.org/">http://www.wireafrica.org/</a>> > > > > > <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in">http://www.linkedin.com/in</a>/cherlin > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Sugar mailing list > > > > > <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org </a>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>?>> > > > > > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org"> http://lists.laptop.org</a>/listinfo/sugar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ryan Pavlik > > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: <a href="http://www.abisource.com">www.abisource.com</a> > <<a href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com</a>> <<a href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com</a>> > > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: > <a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss">www.cleardefinition.com/oss</a>/abi/blog/ > <<a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com">http://www.cleardefinition.com </a>/oss/abi/blog/> > <<a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com">http://www.cleardefinition.com</a>/oss/abi/blog/> > > > > > > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." > > > > -- Helen Keller > > > > > > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu > > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were > > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." > > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide > > > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > > > Sugar mailing list > > > > <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org </a>> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>?>> > > > > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org"> http://lists.laptop.org</a>/listinfo/sugar > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's > free > from AOL at *AOL.com* > <<a href="http://www.aol.com?ncid">http://www.aol.com?ncid</a>=AOLAOF00020000000437>. > > -- Ryan Pavlik > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: <a href="http://www.abisource.com">www.abisource.com</a> > <<a href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com</a>> > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: > <a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss"> www.cleardefinition.com/oss</a>/abi/blog/ > <<a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com">http://www.cleardefinition.com</a>/oss/abi/blog/> > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." > -- Helen Keller > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at * AOL.com* <<a href="http://www.aol.com?ncid">http://www.aol.com?ncid</a>=AOLAOF00020000000437>. -- Ryan Pavlik AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: <a href="http://www.abisource.com">www.abisource.com </a> AbiWord Community Outreach Project: <a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss">www.cleardefinition.com/oss</a>/abi/blog/ "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." -- Helen Keller "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide _______________________________________________ Sugar mailing list <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <a href="http://lists.laptop.org">http://lists.laptop.org</a>/listinfo/sugar </blockquote></div> </div>