[Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
Jeff Elkner
jeff.elkner at gmail.com
Fri May 17 12:01:57 EDT 2019
I've attached the file. ~ Jeff
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:41 AM Chihurumnaya Ibiam
<ibiamchihurumnaya at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner <jeff.elkner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes,
>> pressing F3 did the trick. I should have remembered that from my OLPC
>> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I
>> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
>> that he could experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with
>> them and is returning them to me. A quick look at:
>>
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>>
>> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
>> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
>> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>>
>> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
>> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the website
>> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
>> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/). When you first boot from the
>> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
>> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:
>>
>> 1. Install Etcher.
>> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
>> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
>> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
>> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>>
>> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
>> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
>> works like a charm.
>>
>> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
>> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
>> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
>> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>
>
> When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> can you show us the activity log, it can be found in `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
>>
>>
>> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
>> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar. I'm not going to
>> try to push things onto Debian stretch. Buster is looking like it
>> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer. After that
>> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
>> buster. Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
>> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
>> September in any case.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jeff
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> ibiamchihurumnaya at gmail.com
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view. Use the F3
>> > key, as I said. See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
>> > between views.
>> >
>> > Yes, what you are doing is useful. For your assumed goal of *truly*
>> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
>> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
>> >
>> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS). I've guided adults and
>> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
>> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
>> >
>> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
>> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
>> > Journal appearing first. I've also removed the now unavailable
>> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
>> > to work fine. While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
>> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
>> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
>> > reporting bugs to Debian.
>> >
>> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
>> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
>> >
>> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
>> >
>> > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
>> > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
>> > > OK, progress. Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
>> > > are not showing (see screenshot). In the instant that the Desktop
>> > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
>> > > activities.
>> > >
>> > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
>> > > community, and that we are on the same page. Here are my assumed
>> > > goals:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
>> > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
>> > > 2. A *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
>> > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
>> > >
>> > > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
>> > > learning platform within my school district, developing OER
>> > > educational curricula for it.
>> > >
>> > > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
>> > > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
>> > > pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
>> > > I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice. So if
>> > > we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
>> > > students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Jeff
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
>> > >
>>
>> > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request
>> > > > to be iconified.
>> > > >
>> > > > Press the F3 key.
>> > > >
>> > > > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon.
>> > > >
>> > > > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM).
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
>> > > > > Hi James and Alex,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
>> > > > >
>> > > > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the
>> > > > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see
>> > > > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt
>> > > > >
>> > > > > and
>> > > > >
>> > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Please let me know what I should do next.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Jeff
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
>> > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
>> > > > > > > Jeff,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian
>> > > > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important)
>> > > > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been
>> > > > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when it is
>> > > > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to run an
>> > > > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these packages by
>> > > > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable repo,
>> > > > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of these packages,
>> > > > > > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can explain how to
>> > > > > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > This may also be of use https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:
>> > > > > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James. I'm a high school /
>> > > > > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early
>> > > > > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area. I run Debian in my
>> > > > > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop
>> > > > > > > > to work on that platform. It doesn't currently seem to work. I don't
>> > > > > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing
>> > > > > > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to you.
>> > > > > > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state where
>> > > > > > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Thanks!
>> > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner
>> > > > > > > > Arlington Career Center
>> > > > > > > > Arlington, VA
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy <samsongoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > Hello Alex and James,
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to get started?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner <jeff.elkner at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
>> > > > > > > > > > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
>> > > > > > > > > > years and who would like to rejoin the community.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
>> > > > > > > > > > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working for
>> > > > > > > > > > me.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > The result is not a usable Sugar installation. I am most eager to
>> > > > > > > > > > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
>> > > > > > > > > > need to start with a working system.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Thanks!
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --
>> > > > > > James Cameron
>> > > > > > http://quozl.netrek.org/
>> > > >
>> > > > > ii gir1.2-sugarext-1.0 0.112-3 amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit GObject introspection
>> > > > > ii libsugarext-data 0.112-3 all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit common files
>> > > > > ii libsugarext0:amd64 0.112-3 amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit runtime library
>> > > > > ii python-sugar3 0.112-3 all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit Python bindings
>> > > > > ii sugar-browse-activity 203-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - web browsing activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-calculate-activity 45-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - calculation activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-chat-activity 85-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - text chatting activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-icon-theme 0.112-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - icon theme
>> > > > > ii sugar-imageviewer-activity 64-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - image viewing activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-jukebox-activity 34-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - music jukebox activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-log-activity 39-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - log viewing and reporting activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-pippy-activity 72~dfsg-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - Python programming activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-read-activity 121-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - document viewer activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-session 0.112-6 all Sugar Learning Platform - window manager
>> > > > > ii sugar-terminal-activity 45.4-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - terminal emulation activity
>> > > > > ii sugar-themes 0.112-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - artwork
>> > > > > ii sugar-write-activity 100-1 all Sugar Learning Platform - writing activity
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > ii sucrose 0.112-6 all Sugar Learning Platform - Sucrose
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > James Cameron
>> > > > http://quozl.netrek.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > James Cameron
>> > http://quozl.netrek.org/
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