[Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
Chihurumnaya Ibiam
ibiamchihurumnaya at gmail.com
Fri May 17 11:41:26 EDT 2019
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner <jeff.elkner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes,
> pressing F3 did the trick. I should have remembered that from my OLPC
> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I
> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
> that he could experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with
> them and is returning them to me. A quick look at:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>
> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>
> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the website
> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/). When you first boot from the
> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:
>
> 1. Install Etcher.
> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>
> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
> works like a charm.
>
> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>
When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the
activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
can you show us the activity log, it can be found in
`/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
>
> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar. I'm not going to
> try to push things onto Debian stretch. Buster is looking like it
> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer. After that
> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
> buster. Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
> September in any case.
>
> Thanks!
> Jeff
>
Thanks.
--
Ibiam Chihurumnaya
ibiamchihurumnaya at gmail.com
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view. Use the F3
> > key, as I said. See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
> > between views.
> >
> > Yes, what you are doing is useful. For your assumed goal of *truly*
> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
> >
> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS). I've guided adults and
> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
> >
> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
> > Journal appearing first. I've also removed the now unavailable
> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
> > to work fine. While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
> > reporting bugs to Debian.
> >
> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
> >
> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
> >
> > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
> > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
> >
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > > OK, progress. Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> > > are not showing (see screenshot). In the instant that the Desktop
> > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> > > activities.
> > >
> > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> > > community, and that we are on the same page. Here are my assumed
> > > goals:
> > >
> > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> > > 2. A *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
> > >
> > > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
> > > learning platform within my school district, developing OER
> > > educational curricula for it.
> > >
> > > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
> > > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
> > > pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
> > > I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice. So if
> > > we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
> > > students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
>
> > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> > >
>
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request
> > > > to be iconified.
> > > >
> > > > Press the F3 key.
> > > >
> > > > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon.
> > > >
> > > > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM).
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > > > > Hi James and Alex,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran:
> > > > >
> > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> > > > >
> > > > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the
> > > > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did
> see
> > > > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared).
> > > > >
> > > > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running:
> > > > >
> > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt
> > > > >
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt
> > > > >
> > > > > Please let me know what I should do next.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> > > > > > > Jeff,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present
> in Debian
> > > > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically
> important)
> > > > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not
> yet been
> > > > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian
> 10 when it is
> > > > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do
> would be to run an
> > > > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these
> packages by
> > > > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the
> unstable repo,
> > > > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at
> https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian
> .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of
> these packages,
> > > > > > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can
> explain how to
> > > > > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This may also be of use
> https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:
> > > > > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James. I'm a high
> school /
> > > > > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an
> early
> > > > > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area. I run
> Debian in my
> > > > > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the
> Sugar desktop
> > > > > > > > to work on that platform. It doesn't currently seem to
> work. I don't
> > > > > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide
> reliable testing
> > > > > > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use
> to you.
> > > > > > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a
> state where
> > > > > > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > > > > > Arlington Career Center
> > > > > > > > Arlington, VA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy <
> samsongoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hello Alex and James,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide
> Jeff on how to get started?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner <
> jeff.elkner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am a high school / community college computer science
> teacher in
> > > > > > > > > > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC
> project for
> > > > > > > > > > years and who would like to rejoin the community.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on
> the same
> > > > > > > > > > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to
> that working for
> > > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The result is not a usable Sugar installation. I am
> most eager to
> > > > > > > > > > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum
> developer, but I
> > > > > > > > > > need to start with a working system.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable
> world!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > James Cameron
> > > > > > http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > > >
> > > > > ii gir1.2-sugarext-1.0 0.112-3
> amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit GObject
> introspection
> > > > > ii libsugarext-data 0.112-3
> all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit common files
> > > > > ii libsugarext0:amd64 0.112-3
> amd64 Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit runtime library
> > > > > ii python-sugar3 0.112-3
> all Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit Python bindings
> > > > > ii sugar-browse-activity 203-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - web browsing activity
> > > > > ii sugar-calculate-activity 45-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - calculation activity
> > > > > ii sugar-chat-activity 85-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - text chatting activity
> > > > > ii sugar-icon-theme 0.112-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - icon theme
> > > > > ii sugar-imageviewer-activity 64-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - image viewing activity
> > > > > ii sugar-jukebox-activity 34-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - music jukebox activity
> > > > > ii sugar-log-activity 39-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - log viewing and
> reporting activity
> > > > > ii sugar-pippy-activity 72~dfsg-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - Python programming
> activity
> > > > > ii sugar-read-activity 121-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - document viewer activity
> > > > > ii sugar-session 0.112-6
> all Sugar Learning Platform - window manager
> > > > > ii sugar-terminal-activity 45.4-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - terminal emulation
> activity
> > > > > ii sugar-themes 0.112-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - artwork
> > > > > ii sugar-write-activity 100-1
> all Sugar Learning Platform - writing activity
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ii sucrose 0.112-6
> all Sugar Learning Platform - Sucrose
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > James Cameron
> > > > http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > James Cameron
> > http://quozl.netrek.org/
>
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