[Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

Dave Crossland dave at lab6.com
Wed Jan 23 19:39:00 EST 2019


Thanks for clarifying; I'd misunderstood 😂

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 7:29 PM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org wrote:

> No, thanks!  What my time can accomplish was given only as an
> indication of the size of the solved part of the overall problem.
>
> OLPC continues to pay me to work on our education solution, which
> includes Sugar and these activities.  The rest of my time is already
> sold.
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 07:27:56AM -0500, Dave Crossland wrote:
> > James, are you soliciting SL pay you as a contractor to fix Activities
> not on
> > the list?
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 1:15 AM James Cameron <[1]quozl at laptop.org wrote:
> >
> >     Nice idea, but hasn't happened yet, and I don't expect it to ever
> >     happen without scaling up the number of testers and fixers.
> >
> >     We just don't have enough people paying attention.
> >
> >     How would you propose that attention be purchased?  Sugar Labs has
> >     $95k we could spend.  You've seen from the list what my time can
> >     accomplish each year, and that's not 100% of my time.
> >
> >     On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 08:03:16AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> >     > My original point was that as a community we should view the
> activities
> >     on
> >     > ASLO as a corpus to be treasured and protected. No activity can be
> either
> >     > abandoned or orphaned. It is the responsibility of the community.
> When a
> >     > change 'upstream' breaks an activity or set of activities, the
> problem
> >     > should be resolved as soon as possible.
> >     >
> >     > Tony
> >     >
> >     > On 1/23/19 6:07 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> >     > >On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 09:54:08PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote:
> >     > >>On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 9:13 PM James Cameron <[1][2]
> quozl at laptop.org>
> >     wrote:
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 01:29:56PM -0500, Devin Ulibarri
> wrote:
> >     > >>     > Hi,
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     > This was my experience:
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >   • I came into SugarLabs community at the time that this
> >     migration was
> >     > >>     >     beginning to happen.
> >     > >>     >   • I started a GH account because that is where I was
> told the
> >     software
> >     > >>     was
> >     > >>     >     being maintained.
> >     > >>     >   • I have continued to "go with the flow" and work via GH
> >     although I
> >     > >>     have come
> >     > >>     >     to understand more of the history and context of this
> >     matter.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     > These are my thoughts and opinions:
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >   • I remember an argument that one reason to move to GH
> is
> >     "that is
> >     > >>     where all
> >     > >>     >     the developers are", but since our migration I have
> seen so
> >     many kids
> >     > >>     >     (usually GCI) set up new accounts with GH in order to
> >     contribute to
> >     > >>     SL (and
> >     > >>     >     to participate in GCI). This makes me think that many
> people
> >     are
> >     > >>     willing to
> >     > >>     >     join our development regardless of whatever
> tools/services
> >     we use,
> >     > >>     and
> >     > >>     >     whatever tool/services we use, if they are not yet
> setup
> >     with them,
> >     > >>     they
> >     > >>     >     are willing to get setup in order to join development.
> >     > >>     >   • Another argument seems to boil down to "we will be
> more
> >     productive
> >     > >>     using GH
> >     > >>     >     because we need not worry about the hassle of
> maintaining
> >     our own
> >     > >>     code
> >     > >>     >     hosting service". Is there evidence that we are more
> >     productive now
> >     > >>     than
> >     > >>     >     before? Not having the opportunity to learn/use the
> other
> >     systems, I
> >     > >>     would
> >     > >>     >     only be guessing.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     Not much evidence, it's about the same.  Like any tooling,
> you get
> >     > >>     good at it with time.  More productive now through the pull
> >     request
> >     > >>     and issue integration, but less productive through loss of
> >     situational
> >     > >>     awareness; changes are hidden in GitHub rather than being
> posted
> >     to
> >     > >>     sugar-devel@, and new developers fixate on their favourite
> >     > >>     repositories.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     >   • In theory, SL running its own version control, seems
> to me
> >     like it
> >     > >>     would be
> >     > >>     >     a) more fun for someone interested in this kind of
> work, b)
> >     a
> >     > >>     learning
> >     > >>     >     opportunity, and c) gives maximum freedom/flexibility
> to the
> >     ways in
> >     > >>     which
> >     > >>     >     we would like to do development.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     [2][3]git.sugarlabs.org hasn't needed any significant
> maintenance,
> >     and is
> >     > >>     probably insecure now because of vulnerabilities that
> haven't been
> >     > >>     patched.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     [3][4]bugs.sugarlabs.org has needed updates, but they have
> >     generally worked
> >     > >>     well.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>The spam issue made it almost unusable.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     >   • I would rather be using software that is licensed
> under a
> >     FLOSS
> >     > >>     license
> >     > >>     >     than a proprietary license. [4][5]gnu.org came up
> with some
> >     criteria to
> >     > >>     evaluate
> >     > >>     >     "code hosting services" such as GH: [1][5][6]https://
> >     www.gnu.org/
> >     > >>     software/
> >     > >>     >     repo-criteria.html (which, btw, gets an "F", the
> lowest
> >     grade) The
> >     > >>     whole
> >     > >>     >     reason I am in this in the first place is because I
> believe
> >     the free/
> >     > >>     libre
> >     > >>     >     model of software to be the best for society and
> education.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     Yes, I agree.  Setting up an instance of GitLab could be
> done, but
> >     we
> >     > >>     would need someone willing to do that and maintain it.  Or
> we
> >     could
> >     > >>     use GitLab directly as other projects have done.
> >     > >>
> >     > >>What does that accomplish at this point? (That being said, I use
> GitLab
> >     for
> >     > >>other projects and it works just fine.)
> >     > >All I can think of is closer compliance with intent of FSA 2(b),
> that
> >     > >any and all software and documentation distributed by the Project
> will
> >     > >be distributed solely as Free Software.  But I've not heard from
> the
> >     > >Conservancy on this.
> >     > >
> >     > >I don't think there are any other things that would be
> accomplished,
> >     > >so it's not something I'm inclined to ask about.
> >     > >
> >     > >But I acknowledge Devin's concern; I too would rather be using
> >     > >software that is licensed FLOSS than what we currently do.
> >     > >
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     > Devin
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     > On Tue, 2019-01-22 at 07:15 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >     Walter,
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >     I will try. I am moving on Feb 3 to Palawan. I'll try
> to get
> >     to it
> >     > >>     then. My
> >     > >>     >     principal concern re GSOC is to define projects with
> >     manageable scope
> >     > >>     -
> >     > >>     >     many of the past projects ended undelivered.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >     Tony
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >     On 1/21/19 3:10 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron
> <[2][6]
> >     > >>     [7]quozl at laptop.org>
> >     > >>     >         wrote:
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >             Fascinating, I never thought the move to
> GitHub was
> >     ever
> >     > >>     going to
> >     > >>     >             achieve all that.  It was to enable a
> shutdown of
> >     the
> >     > >>     unmaintained
> >     > >>     >             gitorious instance at [3][7][8]
> git.sugarlabs.org.
> >     Which still
> >     > >>     hasn't
> >     > >>     >             happened
> >     > >>     >             because it is still useful, in turn because
> this
> >     community
> >     > >>     hasn't
> >     > >>     >             the
> >     > >>     >             time to do the necessary leg work to finish
> the move
> >     to
> >     > >>     GitHub.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that
> >     hasn't been
> >     > >>     >         migrated.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were
> (1) as
> >     James
> >     > >>     points
> >     > >>     >         out -- on less piece of infrastructure for us to
> >     maintain; and
> >     > >>     (2)
> >     > >>     >         GitHub for better or worse is much more familiar
> to and
> >     likely to
> >     > >>     be
> >     > >>     >         discovered by potential developers. I think GH
> has been
> >     a decent
> >     > >>     tool
> >     > >>     >         which requires minimal effort on our part. Not
> sure that
> >     the
> >     > >>     latter
> >     > >>     >         really amounts to too much.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I
> don't see
> >     that
> >     > >>     anything we
> >     > >>     >         are doing suggests we don't want to continue to
> support
> >     > >>     individual
> >     > >>     >         contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a
> >     matter of
> >     > >>     ownership
> >     > >>     >         but rather a surfacing of what is actually
> happening re
> >     > >>     maintenance. In
> >     > >>     >         some sense, what is being articulated is the
> equivalent
> >     of the
> >     > >>     Fructose
> >     > >>     >         vs Honey nomenclature of the past where the core
> >     developers are
> >     > >>     saying:
> >     > >>     >         "These activities will be maintained. Cannot
> speak for
> >     everything
> >     > >>     >         else."
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         That said, I think Tony makes a great point re
> thinking
> >     about the
> >     > >>     >         pedagogical implications of our choices, which
> have had
> >     little if
> >     > >>     any
> >     > >>     >         input from the learning side of the house. Would
> be
> >     great to get
> >     > >>     more
> >     > >>     >         input to help us in regard to what is most
> valuable to
> >     our users
> >     > >>     >         (whether they know it or not). [4]@Tony Anderson
> would
> >     be great
> >     > >>     if you
> >     > >>     >         could rework you thoughts about Python into a
> GSoC idea.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         regards.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         -walter
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >             In short, it has nothing to do with the
> tools, and
> >     everything
> >     > >>     to do
> >     > >>     >             with contributors.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >             I'll continue to focus on the activities I've
> got on
> >     my
> >     > >>     list.  That
> >     > >>     >             doesn't mean I won't help with the other
> activities,
> >     but I
> >     > >>     won't
> >     > >>     >             necessarily spend as much time with the
> others.
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >             On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony
> >     Anderson
> >     > >>     wrote:
> >     > >>     >             > While it is marvelous to see some actual
> attention
> >     to the
> >     > >>     Sugar
> >     > >>     >             activities,
> >     > >>     >             > this approach is the direct opposite of the
> logic
> >     behind
> >     > >>     the move
> >     > >>     >             of the
> >     > >>     >             > activities to gitHub. This is a return to
> the G1G1
> >     model in
> >     > >>     which
> >     > >>     >             individuals
> >     > >>     >             > develop, contribute and own activities.
> There can
> >     be no
> >     > >>     abandoned
> >     > >>     >             or orphaned
> >     > >>     >             > activities in a community support model.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > It was recognized by Walter and others that
> there
> >     were two
> >     > >>     >             factors which made
> >     > >>     >             > that ownership model unworkable. First,
> changes in
> >     Sugar
> >     > >>     software
> >     > >>     >             support such
> >     > >>     >             > as the move to GTK3 made common changes to
> all
> >     activities
> >     > >>     >             necessary and,
> >     > >>     >             > second, that many of the original
> contributors are
> >     no
> >     > >>     longer
> >     > >>     >             involved with
> >     > >>     >             > Sugar.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar
> Labs
> >     as a
> >     > >>     community
> >     > >>     >             would support
> >     > >>     >             > Sugar and its library of activities.
> However, in
> >     practice
> >     > >>     support
> >     > >>     >             for
> >     > >>     >             > activities has become increasingly limited
> to a
> >     small
> >     > >>     number of
> >     > >>     >             ones selected
> >     > >>     >             > for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > The Sugar activities library is made
> available to
> >     our users
> >     > >>     via
> >     > >>     >             ASLO.
> >     > >>     >             > Unfortunately, there are activities with new
> >     versions in
> >     > >>     gitHub
> >     > >>     >             which have not
> >     > >>     >             > been released to ASLO and thus are unknown
> to our
> >     users.
> >     > >>     There is
> >     > >>     >             even
> >     > >>     >             > confusion over which 'github'. It has to be
> kept
> >     clear that
> >     > >>     >             developers can use
> >     > >>     >             > any method they chose. What is controlled
> is the
> >     repository
> >     > >>     on
> >     > >>     >             gitHub. Any
> >     > >>     >             > changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are
> >     invisible
> >     > >>     until they
> >     > >>     >             are submitted
> >     > >>     >             > as a new version.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > Educational intent
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > What I would like to see is a return to the
> >     founding
> >     > >>     philosophy
> >     > >>     >             of Sugar.
> >     > >>     >             > Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you
> get 10
> >     lines of
> >     > >>     code
> >     > >>     >             working,
> >     > >>     >             > submit your activity. Sugar is designed to
> provide
> >     all the
> >     > >>     >             software tools
> >     > >>     >             > needed to develop activities in Sugar - no
> >     > >>     cross-development,
> >     > >>     >             containers, or
> >     > >>     >             > virtual environments. Instead of requesting
> new
> >     > >>     contributors to
> >     > >>     >             demonstrate
> >     > >>     >             > their technical proficiency by putting
> their name
> >     on the XO
> >     > >>     icon
> >     > >>     >             in the Home
> >     > >>     >             > View, identify some real examples of
> changes that
> >     would
> >     > >>     improve
> >     > >>     >             Sugar. There
> >     > >>     >             > are plenty available:
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are
> visible
> >     instead
> >     > >>     of
> >     > >>     >             switching to
> >     > >>     >             > gnome by clicking on the big toe.
> >     > >>     >             > When you take a screenshot and switch to the
> >     Journal to
> >     > >>     give it a
> >     > >>     >             title, you
> >     > >>     >             > must use the Frame to return, not the
> Activity
> >     key.
> >     > >>     >             > The kids love the ability to customize their
> >     laptop with a
> >     > >>     >             background picture.
> >     > >>     >             > Unfortunately this often makes the icons in
> the
> >     Home View
> >     > >>     >             invisible.
> >     > >>     >             > Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in
> capability of
> >     Sugar
> >     > >>     (possibly
> >     > >>     >             as a service
> >     > >>     >             > of Browse).
> >     > >>     >             > Help solve problems with a long list of
> activities
> >     (such as
> >     > >>     the
> >     > >>     >             lack of sound
> >     > >>     >             > in Block Party).
> >     > >>     >             > Find a way for Browse to support the css
> FlexBox.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users
> >     learning to
> >     > >>     program in
> >     > >>     >             Python. They
> >     > >>     >             > can work up to 'Make your own Sugar
> Activities'.
> >     Start
> >     > >>     with the
> >     > >>     >             Hello World
> >     > >>     >             > activity. Explain GTK and its benefits.
> PyDebug
> >     provides
> >     > >>     recipes
> >     > >>     >             for many
> >     > >>     >             > common coding situations. Stop hiding the
> Terminal
> >     and Log
> >     > >>     >             activities - try to
> >     > >>     >             > encourage them to become favorites. Soon we
> could
> >     see a new
> >     > >>     >             generation of
> >     > >>     >             > user-programmers as we did in Uruguay.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI
> and
> >     its
> >     > >>     compatriots
> >     > >>     >             as a way to
> >     > >>     >             > make embedded computing tangible. It would
> not be
> >     difficult
> >     > >>     to
> >     > >>     >             connect such a
> >     > >>     >             > device via the Ad Hoc network so that it
> could be
> >     used to
> >     > >>     >             transfer a program
> >     > >>     >             > written on an XO to the device and execute
> it with
> >     the user
> >     > >>     >             seeing the results
> >     > >>     >             > on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > Tony
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >     I noticed Dimensions fell off the list.
> I will
> >     take
> >     > >>     that one
> >     > >>     >             on as I think
> >     > >>     >             >     it is of real value.
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >     -walter
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >     On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James
> Cameron
> >     <[1][5]
> >     > >>     >             [8][9]quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         Thanks.  So the list looks like;
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         # Walter Bender
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         * Music Blocks,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Turtle Blocks JS,
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         # Rahul Bothra
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         * CowBulls,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Flappy,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Cedit,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Polari,
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         # James Cameron
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         * Abacus,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Browse (master),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Browse (fedora 18 - webkit -
> v157.x),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Calculator,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Chart,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Chat,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Clock,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Develop,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Distance,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Finance,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Find Words,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Fototoon,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Fraction Bounce,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Gears,
> >     > >>     >             >         * GetBooks,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Help,
> >     > >>     >             >         * ImageViewer,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Implode,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Jukebox,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Labyrinth,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Letters,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Log,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Maze,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Measure,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Memorize,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Moon (master),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
> >     > >>     >             >         * MusicKeyboard (master),
> >     > >>     >             >         * MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound
> -
> >     v8.x),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Paint,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Physics,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Pippy,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Poll,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Portfolio,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Read (master),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Read (fedora 18 - webkit -
> v118.x),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Record (master),
> >     > >>     >             >         * Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer -
> v10x),
> >     > >>     >             >         * SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Speak,
> >     > >>     >             >         * StopWatch,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Story,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Terminal,
> >     > >>     >             >         * TurtleBlocks,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Words,
> >     > >>     >             >         * Write,
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM
> -0500,
> >     Walter
> >     > >>     Bender
> >     > >>     >             wrote:
> >     > >>     >             >         > I am actively maintaining Music
> Blocks
> >     and Turtle
> >     > >>     >             Blocks JS.
> >     > >>     >             >         > I just haven't had the bandwidth
> to do
> >     much
> >     > >>     beyond that
> >     > >>     >             of late. That
> >     > >>     >             >         said, I
> >     > >>     >             >         > am happy to kibbutz on any of the
> >     activities
> >     > >>     which I
> >     > >>     >             used to
> >     > >>     >             >         maintain.
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM
> Rahul
> >     Bothra <[1]
> >     > >>     [2]
> >     > >>     >             >         [6][9][10]rrbothra at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >     *
> >     > >>     >             >         >     I am maintaining CowBulls and
> >     Flappy.
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >     I can take up cedit and Polari
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >     On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53
> PM
> >     James
> >     > >>     Cameron <[2]
> >     > >>     >             [3]
> >     > >>     >             >         [7][10][11]quozl at laptop.org> wrote:
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >         Once we had a list of
> abandoned
> >     > >>     activities,
> >     > >>     >             where the
> >     > >>     >             >         maintainer is
> >     > >>     >             >         >         missing in action, not
> doing
> >     testing or
> >     > >>     >             releasing.
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >         Now, I propose the
> inverse; a
> >     list of
> >     > >>     >             activities with a
> >     > >>     >             >         maintainer
> >     > >>     >             >         >         testing and releasing.
> It will
> >     be easier
> >     > >>     to
> >     > >>     >             maintain that
> >     > >>     >             >         list.
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >         For myself, each of the
> Fructose
> >     > >>     activities,
> >     > >>     >             each of the
> >     > >>     >             >         activities we
> >     > >>     >             >         >         ship on OLPC OS.  I know
> Walter
> >     is
> >     > >>     looking
> >     > >>     >             after Music
> >     > >>     >             >         Blocks.  Lionel
> >     > >>     >             >         >         is looking after
> Sugarizer.  Are
> >     there
> >     > >>     any
> >     > >>     >             other developers
> >     > >>     >             >         who are
> >     > >>     >             >         >         maintainers?
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >         --
> >     > >>     >             >         >         James Cameron
> >     > >>     >             >         >         [3][4][8][11][12]http://
> >     quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>      _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >             >         >         Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >             >         >         [4][5][9][12]
> >     > >>     [13]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >         >         [5][6][10][13][14]http://
> >     lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     listinfo/
> >     > >>     >             sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>      _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >             >         >     Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >             >         >     [6][7][11][14][15]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >         >     [7][8][12][15][16]http://
> >     lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     listinfo/
> >     > >>     >             sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         > --
> >     > >>     >             >         > Walter Bender
> >     > >>     >             >         > Sugar Labs
> >     > >>     >             >         > [8][9][13][16][17]http://
> >     www.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >         > [9]
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         > References:
> >     > >>     >             >         >
> >     > >>     >             >         > [1] mailto:[10][14][17][18]
> >     rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     >             >         > [2] mailto:[11][15][18][19]
> >     quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     >             >         > [3] [12][16][19][20]http://
> >     quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >             >         > [4] mailto:[13][17][20]
> >     > >>     [21]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >         > [5] [14][18][21][22]http://
> >     lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     listinfo/
> >     > >>     >             sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             >         > [6] mailto:[15][19][22]
> >     > >>     [23]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >         > [7] [16][20][23][24]http://
> >     lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     listinfo/
> >     > >>     >             sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             >         > [8] [17][21][24][25]http://
> >     www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     >             >         > [9] [18][22][25][26]http://
> >     www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >         --
> >     > >>     >             >         James Cameron
> >     > >>     >             >         [19][23][26][27]
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >             >
> >      _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >             >         Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >             >         [20][24][27][28]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >         [21][25][28][29]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     /listinfo/
> >     > >>     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >     --
> >     > >>     >             >     Walter Bender
> >     > >>     >             >     Sugar Labs
> >     > >>     >             >     [22][26][29][30]
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             >
> >      _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >             >     Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >             >     [23][27][30][31]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             >     [24][28][31][32]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/
> >     > >>     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > References:
> >     > >>     >             >
> >     > >>     >             > [1] mailto:[29][32][33]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     >             > [2] mailto:[30][33][34]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     >             > [3] mailto:[31][34][35]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     >             > [4] [32][35][36]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [5] mailto:[33][36][37]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [6] [34][37][38]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             > [7] mailto:[35][38][39]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [8] [36][39][40]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             > [9] [37][40][41]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [10] mailto:[38][41][42]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     >             > [11] mailto:[39][42][43]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     >             > [12] [40][43][44]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [13] mailto:[41][44][45]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [14] [42][45][46]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/
> >     > >>     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             > [15] mailto:[43][46][47]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [16] [44][47][48]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/
> >     > >>     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             > [17] [45][48][49]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [18] [46][49][50]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [19] [47][50][51]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [20] mailto:[48][51][52]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [21] [49][52][53]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/
> >     > >>     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >             > [22] [50][53][54]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     >             > [23] mailto:[51][54][55]
> >     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [24] [52][55][56]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/
> >     listinfo/
> >     > >>     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >             >
> _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >             > Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >             > [53][56][57]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             > [54][57][58]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/
> >     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >             --
> >     > >>     >             James Cameron
> >     > >>     >             [55][58][59]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     >
>  _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >             Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >             [56][59][60]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >             [57][60][61]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/
> >     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         --
> >     > >>     >         Walter Bender
> >     > >>     >         Sugar Labs
> >     > >>     >         [58][61][62]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >         _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >         Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >         [59][62][63]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >         [60][63][64]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/
> >     sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     >     _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     >     Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     >     [61][64][65]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     >     [62][65][66]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     > References:
> >     > >>     >
> >     > >>     > [1] [66][67]
> https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria.html
> >     > >>     > [2] mailto:[67][68]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [3] [68][69]http://git.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [4] mailto:[69][70]tony_anderson at usa.net
> >     > >>     > [5] mailto:[70][71]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [6] mailto:[71][72]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     > [7] mailto:[72][73]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [8] [73][74]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [9] mailto:[74][75]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [10] [75][76]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [11] mailto:[76][77]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [12] [77][78]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [13] [78][79]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [14] mailto:[79][80]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     > [15] mailto:[80][81]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [16] [81][82]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [17] mailto:[82][83]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [18] [83][84]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [19] mailto:[84][85]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [20] [85][86]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [21] [86][87]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [22] [87][88]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [23] [88][89]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [24] mailto:[89][90]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [25] [90][91]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [26] [91][92]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [27] mailto:[92][93]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [28] [93][94]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [29] mailto:[94][95]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [30] mailto:[95][96]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     > [31] mailto:[96][97]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [32] [97][98]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [33] mailto:[98][99]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [34] [99][100]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [35] mailto:[100][101]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [36] [101][102]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [37] [102][103]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [38] mailto:[103][104]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>     > [39] mailto:[104][105]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>     > [40] [105][106]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [41] mailto:[106][107]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [42] [107][108]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [43] mailto:[108][109]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [44] [109][110]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [45] [110][111]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [46] [111][112]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [47] [112][113]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [48] mailto:[113][114]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [49] [114][115]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [50] [115][116]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [51] mailto:[116][117]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [52] [117][118]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [53] mailto:[118][119]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [54] [119][120]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [55] [120][121]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     > [56] mailto:[121][122]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [57] [122][123]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [58] [123][124]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>     > [59] mailto:[124][125]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [60] [125][126]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>     > [61] mailto:[126][127]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [62] [127][128]
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     > _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     > Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     > [128][129]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     > [129][130]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>
> >     > >>     --
> >     > >>     James Cameron
> >     > >>     [130][131]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>     _______________________________________________
> >     > >>     Sugar-devel mailing list
> >     > >>     [131][132]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>     [132][133]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >     > >>
> >     > >>--
> >     > >>Walter Bender
> >     > >>Sugar Labs
> >     > >>[133][134]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >     > >>[134]
> >     > >>
> >     > >>References:
> >     > >>
> >     > >>[1] mailto:[135]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>[2] [136]http://git.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>[3] [137]http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>[4] [138]http://gnu.org/
> >     > >>[5] [139]https://www.gnu.org/software/
> >     > >>[6] mailto:[140]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>[7] [141]http://git.sugarlabs.org/
> >     > >>[8] mailto:[142]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>[9] mailto:[143]rrbothra at gmail.com
> >     > >>[10] mailto:[144]quozl at laptop.org
> >     > >>[11] [145]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> >     > >>[12] mailto:[146] <Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
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