[Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities

Tony Anderson tony_anderson at usa.net
Tue Jan 22 00:15:20 EST 2019


Walter,

I will try. I am moving on Feb 3 to Palawan. I'll try to get to it then. 
My principal concern re GSOC is to define projects with manageable scope 
- many of the past projects ended undelivered.

Tony

On 1/21/19 3:10 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org 
> <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>> wrote:
>
>     Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
>     achieve all that.  It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
>     gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org
>     <http://git.sugarlabs.org>. Which still hasn't happened
>     because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
>     time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.
>
>
> I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that hasn't been migrated.
>
> FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were (1) as James points 
> out -- on less piece of infrastructure for us to maintain; and (2) 
> GitHub for better or worse is much more familiar to and likely to be 
> discovered by potential developers. I think GH has been a decent tool 
> which requires minimal effort on our part. Not sure that the latter 
> really amounts to too much.
>
> Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I don't see that anything 
> we are doing suggests we don't want to continue to support individual 
> contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a matter of ownership 
> but rather a surfacing of what is actually happening re maintenance. 
> In some sense, what is being articulated is the equivalent of the 
> Fructose vs Honey nomenclature of the past where the core developers 
> are saying: "These activities will be maintained. Cannot speak for 
> everything else."
>
> That said, I think Tony makes a great point re thinking about the 
> pedagogical implications of our choices, which have had little if any 
> input from the learning side of the house. Would be great to get more 
> input to help us in regard to what is most valuable to our users 
> (whether they know it or not). @Tony Anderson 
> <mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net> would be great if you could rework you 
> thoughts about Python into a GSoC idea.
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
>     In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
>     with contributors.
>
>     I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list.  That
>     doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
>     necessarily spend as much time with the others.
>
>     On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
>     > While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar
>     activities,
>     > this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the
>     move of the
>     > activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in
>     which individuals
>     > develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no
>     abandoned or orphaned
>     > activities in a community support model.
>     >
>     > It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two
>     factors which made
>     > that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar
>     software support such
>     > as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities
>     necessary and,
>     > second, that many of the original contributors are no longer
>     involved with
>     > Sugar.
>     >
>     > GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community
>     would support
>     > Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice
>     support for
>     > activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of
>     ones selected
>     > for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
>     >
>     > The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via
>     ASLO.
>     > Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub
>     which have not
>     > been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There
>     is even
>     > confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that
>     developers can use
>     > any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on
>     gitHub. Any
>     > changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until
>     they are submitted
>     > as a new version.
>     >
>     > Educational intent
>     >
>     > What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy
>     of Sugar.
>     > Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code
>     working,
>     > submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the
>     software tools
>     > needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development,
>     containers, or
>     > virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to
>     demonstrate
>     > their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon
>     in the Home
>     > View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve
>     Sugar. There
>     > are plenty available:
>     >
>     > Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of
>     switching to
>     > gnome by clicking on the big toe.
>     > When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it
>     a title, you
>     > must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
>     > The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a
>     background picture.
>     > Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
>     > Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly
>     as a service
>     > of Browse).
>     > Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the
>     lack of sound
>     > in Block Party).
>     > Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.
>     >
>     > Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program
>     in Python. They
>     > can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'.  Start with the
>     Hello World
>     > activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug provides recipes
>     for many
>     > common coding situations. Stop hiding the Terminal and Log
>     activities - try to
>     > encourage them to become favorites. Soon we could see a new
>     generation of
>     > user-programmers as we did in Uruguay.
>     >
>     > Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI and its compatriots
>     as a way to
>     > make embedded computing tangible. It would not be difficult to
>     connect such a
>     > device via the Ad Hoc network so that it could be used to
>     transfer a program
>     > written on an XO to the device and execute it with the user
>     seeing the results
>     > on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).
>     >
>     > Tony
>     >
>     > On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>     >
>     >     I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one
>     on as I think
>     >     it is of real value.
>     >
>     >     -walter
>     >
>     >     On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron
>     <[1]quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>> wrote:
>     >
>     >         Thanks.  So the list looks like;
>     >
>     >         # Walter Bender
>     >
>     >         * Music Blocks,
>     >         * Turtle Blocks JS,
>     >
>     >         # Rahul Bothra
>     >
>     >         * CowBulls,
>     >         * Flappy,
>     >         * Cedit,
>     >         * Polari,
>     >
>     >         # James Cameron
>     >
>     >         * Abacus,
>     >         * Browse (master),
>     >         * Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
>     >         * Calculator,
>     >         * Chart,
>     >         * Chat,
>     >         * Clock,
>     >         * Develop,
>     >         * Distance,
>     >         * Finance,
>     >         * Find Words,
>     >         * Fototoon,
>     >         * Fraction Bounce,
>     >         * Gears,
>     >         * GetBooks,
>     >         * Help,
>     >         * ImageViewer,
>     >         * Implode,
>     >         * Jukebox,
>     >         * Labyrinth,
>     >         * Letters,
>     >         * Log,
>     >         * Maze,
>     >         * Measure,
>     >         * Memorize,
>     >         * Moon (master),
>     >         * Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
>     >         * MusicKeyboard (master),
>     >         * MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
>     >         * Paint,
>     >         * Physics,
>     >         * Pippy,
>     >         * Poll,
>     >         * Portfolio,
>     >         * Read (master),
>     >         * Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
>     >         * Record (master),
>     >         * Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
>     >         * SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
>     >         * Speak,
>     >         * StopWatch,
>     >         * Story,
>     >         * Terminal,
>     >         * TurtleBlocks,
>     >         * Words,
>     >         * Write,
>     >
>     >         On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender
>     wrote:
>     >         > I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle
>     Blocks JS.
>     >         > I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond
>     that of late. That
>     >         said, I
>     >         > am happy to kibbutz on any of the activities which I
>     used to
>     >         maintain.
>     >         >
>     >         > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM Rahul Bothra <[1][2]
>     > rrbothra at gmail.com <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >         >
>     >         >     *
>     >         >     I am maintaining CowBulls and Flappy.
>     >         >
>     >         >     I can take up cedit and Polari
>     >         >
>     >         >     On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Cameron <[2][3]
>     > quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>> wrote:
>     >         >
>     >         >         Once we had a list of abandoned activities,
>     where the
>     >         maintainer is
>     >         >         missing in action, not doing testing or releasing.
>     >         >
>     >         >         Now, I propose the inverse; a list of
>     activities with a
>     >         maintainer
>     >         >         testing and releasing.  It will be easier to
>     maintain that
>     >         list.
>     >         >
>     >         >         For myself, each of the Fructose activities,
>     each of the
>     >         activities we
>     >         >         ship on OLPC OS.  I know Walter is looking
>     after Music
>     >         Blocks.  Lionel
>     >         >         is looking after Sugarizer.  Are there any
>     other developers
>     >         who are
>     >         >         maintainers?
>     >         >
>     >         >         --
>     >         >         James Cameron
>     >         >         [3][4]http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     >         >  _______________________________________________
>     >         >         Sugar-devel mailing list
>     >         >         [4][5]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     >         >       
>      [5][6]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     >         >
>     >         >  _______________________________________________
>     >         >     Sugar-devel mailing list
>     >         >     [6][7]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     >         >     [7][8]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     >         >
>     >         > --
>     >         > Walter Bender
>     >         > Sugar Labs
>     >         > [8][9]http://www.sugarlabs.org
>     >         > [9]
>     >         >
>     >         > References:
>     >         >
>     >         > [1] mailto:[10]rrbothra at gmail.com
>     <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>
>     >         > [2] mailto:[11]quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
>     >         > [3] [12]http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     >         > [4] mailto:[13]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     >         > [5] [14]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     >         > [6] mailto:[15]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     >         > [7] [16]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     >         > [8] [17]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>     >         > [9] [18]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>     >
>     >         --
>     >         James Cameron
>     >         [19]http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     >         _______________________________________________
>     >         Sugar-devel mailing list
>     >         [20]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     >         [21]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     >
>     >     --
>     >     Walter Bender
>     >     Sugar Labs
>     >     [22]http://www.sugarlabs.org
>     >
>     >
>     >     _______________________________________________
>     >     Sugar-devel mailing list
>     >     [23]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     >     [24]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     >
>     > References:
>     >
>     > [1] mailto:quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
>     > [2] mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>
>     > [3] mailto:quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
>     > [4] http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     > [5] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > [6] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     > [7] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > [8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     > [9] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>     > [10] mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>
>     > [11] mailto:quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
>     > [12] http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     > [13] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > [14] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     > [15] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > [16] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     > [17] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>     > [18] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>     > [19] http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     > [20] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > [21] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>     > [22] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
>     > [23] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > [24] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Sugar-devel mailing list
>     > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
>     -- 
>     James Cameron
>     http://quozl.netrek.org/
>     _______________________________________________
>     Sugar-devel mailing list
>     Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>     <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>     http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
>
> -- 
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel


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