[Sugar-devel] Abandoned or orphaned activities
Tony Anderson
tony_anderson at usa.net
Tue Jan 22 00:15:20 EST 2019
Walter,
I will try. I am moving on Feb 3 to Palawan. I'll try to get to it then.
My principal concern re GSOC is to define projects with manageable scope
- many of the past projects ended undelivered.
Tony
On 1/21/19 3:10 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 3:44 AM James Cameron <quozl at laptop.org
> <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>> wrote:
>
> Fascinating, I never thought the move to GitHub was ever going to
> achieve all that. It was to enable a shutdown of the unmaintained
> gitorious instance at git.sugarlabs.org
> <http://git.sugarlabs.org>. Which still hasn't happened
> because it is still useful, in turn because this community hasn't the
> time to do the necessary leg work to finish the move to GitHub.
>
>
> I would be curious what is still on Gitorious that hasn't been migrated.
>
> FWIW, my principle motivations for the move were (1) as James points
> out -- on less piece of infrastructure for us to maintain; and (2)
> GitHub for better or worse is much more familiar to and likely to be
> discovered by potential developers. I think GH has been a decent tool
> which requires minimal effort on our part. Not sure that the latter
> really amounts to too much.
>
> Re Tony's point about the ownership model, I don't see that anything
> we are doing suggests we don't want to continue to support individual
> contributions. I interpreted James's list not as a matter of ownership
> but rather a surfacing of what is actually happening re maintenance.
> In some sense, what is being articulated is the equivalent of the
> Fructose vs Honey nomenclature of the past where the core developers
> are saying: "These activities will be maintained. Cannot speak for
> everything else."
>
> That said, I think Tony makes a great point re thinking about the
> pedagogical implications of our choices, which have had little if any
> input from the learning side of the house. Would be great to get more
> input to help us in regard to what is most valuable to our users
> (whether they know it or not). @Tony Anderson
> <mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net> would be great if you could rework you
> thoughts about Python into a GSoC idea.
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
> In short, it has nothing to do with the tools, and everything to do
> with contributors.
>
> I'll continue to focus on the activities I've got on my list. That
> doesn't mean I won't help with the other activities, but I won't
> necessarily spend as much time with the others.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> > While it is marvelous to see some actual attention to the Sugar
> activities,
> > this approach is the direct opposite of the logic behind the
> move of the
> > activities to gitHub. This is a return to the G1G1 model in
> which individuals
> > develop, contribute and own activities. There can be no
> abandoned or orphaned
> > activities in a community support model.
> >
> > It was recognized by Walter and others that there were two
> factors which made
> > that ownership model unworkable. First, changes in Sugar
> software support such
> > as the move to GTK3 made common changes to all activities
> necessary and,
> > second, that many of the original contributors are no longer
> involved with
> > Sugar.
> >
> > GitHub was touted as the way in which Sugar Labs as a community
> would support
> > Sugar and its library of activities. However, in practice
> support for
> > activities has become increasingly limited to a small number of
> ones selected
> > for inclusion in the 13.2 series of builds.
> >
> > The Sugar activities library is made available to our users via
> ASLO.
> > Unfortunately, there are activities with new versions in gitHub
> which have not
> > been released to ASLO and thus are unknown to our users. There
> is even
> > confusion over which 'github'. It has to be kept clear that
> developers can use
> > any method they chose. What is controlled is the repository on
> gitHub. Any
> > changes outside of the Sugar Labs github are invisible until
> they are submitted
> > as a new version.
> >
> > Educational intent
> >
> > What I would like to see is a return to the founding philosophy
> of Sugar.
> > Everyone is welcome to contribute. When you get 10 lines of code
> working,
> > submit your activity. Sugar is designed to provide all the
> software tools
> > needed to develop activities in Sugar - no cross-development,
> containers, or
> > virtual environments. Instead of requesting new contributors to
> demonstrate
> > their technical proficiency by putting their name on the XO icon
> in the Home
> > View, identify some real examples of changes that would improve
> Sugar. There
> > are plenty available:
> >
> > Fix the icons on 'my settings' so they are visible instead of
> switching to
> > gnome by clicking on the big toe.
> > When you take a screenshot and switch to the Journal to give it
> a title, you
> > must use the Frame to return, not the Activity key.
> > The kids love the ability to customize their laptop with a
> background picture.
> > Unfortunately this often makes the icons in the Home View invisible.
> > Add Jupyter Notebook as a built-in capability of Sugar (possibly
> as a service
> > of Browse).
> > Help solve problems with a long list of activities (such as the
> lack of sound
> > in Block Party).
> > Find a way for Browse to support the css FlexBox.
> >
> > Stop using Pippy as a ceiling to our users learning to program
> in Python. They
> > can work up to 'Make your own Sugar Activities'. Start with the
> Hello World
> > activity. Explain GTK and its benefits. PyDebug provides recipes
> for many
> > common coding situations. Stop hiding the Terminal and Log
> activities - try to
> > encourage them to become favorites. Soon we could see a new
> generation of
> > user-programmers as we did in Uruguay.
> >
> > Along this theme, we should embrace the RPI and its compatriots
> as a way to
> > make embedded computing tangible. It would not be difficult to
> connect such a
> > device via the Ad Hoc network so that it could be used to
> transfer a program
> > written on an XO to the device and execute it with the user
> seeing the results
> > on LEDs (e.g. Sense Hat).
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > On 1/20/19 3:48 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> >
> > I noticed Dimensions fell off the list. I will take that one
> on as I think
> > it is of real value.
> >
> > -walter
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:44 AM James Cameron
> <[1]quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks. So the list looks like;
> >
> > # Walter Bender
> >
> > * Music Blocks,
> > * Turtle Blocks JS,
> >
> > # Rahul Bothra
> >
> > * CowBulls,
> > * Flappy,
> > * Cedit,
> > * Polari,
> >
> > # James Cameron
> >
> > * Abacus,
> > * Browse (master),
> > * Browse (fedora 18 - webkit - v157.x),
> > * Calculator,
> > * Chart,
> > * Chat,
> > * Clock,
> > * Develop,
> > * Distance,
> > * Finance,
> > * Find Words,
> > * Fototoon,
> > * Fraction Bounce,
> > * Gears,
> > * GetBooks,
> > * Help,
> > * ImageViewer,
> > * Implode,
> > * Jukebox,
> > * Labyrinth,
> > * Letters,
> > * Log,
> > * Maze,
> > * Measure,
> > * Memorize,
> > * Moon (master),
> > * Moon (fedora 18 - gtk2 - v17.x),
> > * MusicKeyboard (master),
> > * MusicKeyboard (fedora 18 - csound - v8.x),
> > * Paint,
> > * Physics,
> > * Pippy,
> > * Poll,
> > * Portfolio,
> > * Read (master),
> > * Read (fedora 18 - webkit - v118.x),
> > * Record (master),
> > * Record (fedora 18 - gstreamer - v10x),
> > * SimpleEnglishWikipedia,
> > * Speak,
> > * StopWatch,
> > * Story,
> > * Terminal,
> > * TurtleBlocks,
> > * Words,
> > * Write,
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Walter Bender
> wrote:
> > > I am actively maintaining Music Blocks and Turtle
> Blocks JS.
> > > I just haven't had the bandwidth to do much beyond
> that of late. That
> > said, I
> > > am happy to kibbutz on any of the activities which I
> used to
> > maintain.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 3:11 AM Rahul Bothra <[1][2]
> > rrbothra at gmail.com <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > *
> > > I am maintaining CowBulls and Flappy.
> > >
> > > I can take up cedit and Polari
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM James Cameron <[2][3]
> > quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Once we had a list of abandoned activities,
> where the
> > maintainer is
> > > missing in action, not doing testing or releasing.
> > >
> > > Now, I propose the inverse; a list of
> activities with a
> > maintainer
> > > testing and releasing. It will be easier to
> maintain that
> > list.
> > >
> > > For myself, each of the Fructose activities,
> each of the
> > activities we
> > > ship on OLPC OS. I know Walter is looking
> after Music
> > Blocks. Lionel
> > > is looking after Sugarizer. Are there any
> other developers
> > who are
> > > maintainers?
> > >
> > > --
> > > James Cameron
> > > [3][4]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > > [4][5]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > >
> [5][6]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > > [6][7]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > > [7][8]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > >
> > > --
> > > Walter Bender
> > > Sugar Labs
> > > [8][9]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> > > [9]
> > >
> > > References:
> > >
> > > [1] mailto:[10]rrbothra at gmail.com
> <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>
> > > [2] mailto:[11]quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
> > > [3] [12]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > > [4] mailto:[13]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > > [5] [14]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > > [6] mailto:[15]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > > [7] [16]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > > [8] [17]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > > [9] [18]http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> >
> > --
> > James Cameron
> > [19]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [20]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [21]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> > --
> > Walter Bender
> > Sugar Labs
> > [22]http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > [23]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [24]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
> > [2] mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>
> > [3] mailto:quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
> > [4] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > [5] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [6] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [7] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [9] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > [10] mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com <mailto:rrbothra at gmail.com>
> > [11] mailto:quozl at laptop.org <mailto:quozl at laptop.org>
> > [12] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > [13] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [14] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [15] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [16] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [17] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > [18] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > [19] http://quozl.netrek.org/
> > [20] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [21] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > [22] http://www.sugarlabs.org/
> > [23] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > [24] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> <mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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