[Sugar-devel] Meeting #2 of the project Setting up activity server.

James Cameron quozl at laptop.org
Sun May 6 22:41:19 EDT 2018

I can't delete it, I don't have access.  Only Ignacio does, and he's
inactive these days.

There's also https://github.com/sugarlabs-activities which has no

No, I don't want everything in one bucket.  I'd prefer GitLab over

The make a new ASLO does look like a NIH (not invented here) syndrome,
and my preference is to fix the old one.  And that's what I was doing.

Programmers who refuse to learn a language or tool are just limiting

That version number convention has been changed; it happened about
eight years ago, for v0.92, in commit
c7a80a1e56e4f52e280b0b1d87643899726f6c36 by Gonzalo Odiard and Simon
Schampijer as part of ticket #2425.


I'm keeping the feature.  It is useful.

Bundle deletion should be done automatically; the scenario you gave
was limited space on a laptop and download using Browse.  As you said
before; why would we keep the bundle in the Journal after installing

Yes, quite capable of releasing a new Hello World, but there's no
point doing so; (a) it is a useless activity, it doesn't even say
hello to the world, just to the user (b) it is only a coding example.

Users can refer to the activity already, they don't need a bundle for
it.  Pippy and Develop have what is needed.

On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 10:23:05AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
> If you believe it is trash, remove it. It is trash only in that there was no
> follow-up. You and Walter seem to want everything in one bucket. In the past
> few days I have spent a lot of time on github using search to find out if
> there is a repository for an activity. So, if you feel it is correct, delete
> the sugaractivities trash.
> The list of tries to clean up ASLO shows the problem. Each attempt started
> by trashing ASLO and beginning again. What is needed is to leverage what we
> have. I believe the first step is to make an up-to-date inventory of the
> Sugar activities and their status. That is my current focus.
> Never is a long time.
> "Rather than stuff
> around with ASLO, we really need activity maintainers who will release
> new activity versions."
> Agreed.
> Version numbers are treated in Sugar as text, so you are certainly correct.
> An activity version could be 'wonderful'.
> However, the bundle browse-157.3.xo shows the version number. We could have
> myactivity-wonderful.xo.
> This number by convention should be an integer incremented by a new release.
> This immediately informs the user that if the installed activity (List View)
> version number is less than the current version number on ASLO, there is a
> possible update. The original guidelines were to increment version numbers
> by 1.
> Bundle deletion should never be done automatically. It requires a thoughtful
> decision. The decision to block Hello World illustrates our fundamental
> problem. We choose to 'deprecate' since it means the problem is no longer a
> problem and no further action is needed. Blocking Hello World doesn't seem
> much simpler than building a bundle by setup.py from the repository (after
> updating the version number to 7) and then installing in on ASLO. I know you
> are capable of both steps. Having a simple activity that users can refer to
> when attempting to build their own activity should be an essential part of
> our educational objective. Blocking does serve the purpose of eliminating
> the problem.
> Tony
> On Monday, 07 May, 2018 09:49 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> >No surprise that this meeting didn't discuss an activity server or
> >WikiPort, because (a) the questions were about a private mail (there
> >was no link), and (b) the new term WikiPort is Vipul's name for the
> >project.
> >
> >I interpret https://github.com/sugar-activities as trash left lying
> >around by a previous contributor.  It ruins code and text searches on
> >GitHub, because there are so many matches in the wrong place.  I've
> >had two contributors misidentify repositories because of it.
> >
> >While it would be nice to clean up ASLO, this is obviously never going
> >to happen, because we've had so many people try already, then fail.
> >ASLOv2, then ASLOv3, and we're still on ASLOv1.  I've fixed a few
> >things, 'cause I can code in PHP.  It's not hard.  Rather than stuff
> >around with ASLO, we really need activity maintainers who will release
> >new activity versions.
> >
> >You're wrong about the version numbers.  Sugar supports version
> >numbers with any number of periods separated by numbers.  Our
> >specification of version number is
> >https://developer.sugarlabs.org/sugar3/sugar3.bundle.bundleversion.html
> >
> >(For others, "real" is FORTRAN for floating point.  Both Tony and I
> >used Fortran.)
> >
> >Yes, automatic bundle deletion should be done.  Any volunteers to do
> >it?  Thought not.  https://github.com/sugarlabs/browse-activity/issues/81
> >
> >On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 09:20:08AM +0800, Tony Anderson wrote:
> >>I read the log and didn't see any discussion of either an activity server or a
> >>WikiPort. Most of the discussion seems to focus on 'activity.info'.
> >>
> >>I interpret [1]https://github.com/sugar-activities as an attempt to provide a
> >>separate place for Sugar activity repositories based on download.sugarlabs.org/
> >>activities. The number of activities mentioned is consistent with the current
> >>content of ASLO. (see [2]http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/)
> >>
> >>A simple python script can process the activity.info in activity bundles very
> >>quickly. Simply download every activity bundle and then use import zipfile to
> >>read the activity.info file and check it for whatever is interesting. I
> >>generally use ls -1 *.xo > list to create a file. The python script can easily
> >>form a list of activities from this file.
> >>
> >>Our primary goal must be to provide information and support for our users and
> >>prospective users. There is no reason for a user ever to know that there is an
> >>activity.info file or indeed an Activities folder. The original design provides
> >>the information needed for Sugar to register and execute the activity within
> >>the activity.py framework. In this spirit, the repository link should join the
> >>website link on ASLO where it is visible to the user.
> >>
> >>In the spirit of view source, wouldn't it be helpful to have documentation
> >>giving the  user a map of Sugar and the role of the various modules? This could
> >>start with the information in activity.py. (/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/
> >>sugar3/activity/activity.py). This could lead in to James Simmons description
> >>of how to make a Sugar activity. The Hello World activity could be used as
> >>intended - as the simplest example. The problem with the wiki pages is not the
> >>mark up method but the organization and content.
> >>
> >>Our priority task is to clean up ASLO. The activity version in ASLO needs to be
> >>released from the github repository with a meaningful version number (an
> >>integer not a real number). The activities need to be tested to see that they
> >>work in the Ubuntu 18.04 environment as well as in 13.2.9. We need to have a
> >>clear picture of the activities which are not working and the cause. It may be
> >>necessary to have different versions for Ubuntu and for 13.2.9. As well there
> >>may have to be different versions for the Intel processors and the Arm
> >>processors. ASLO needs to be modified to accommodate that need. There are
> >>activities which probably should be dropped. The Java activity works well but
> >>is not an activity. It installs Java - a one-time execution.
> >>
> >>We also need to remember that the XO has very limited storage. It is essential
> >>that the installed activity not be git enabled. Currently the Browse activity
> >>not only downloads and installs an activity, it leaves a copy of the bundle in
> >>the Journal. This doubles the storage cost of an activity. It burdens our user
> >>with the need to switch to the Journal and erase the bundle. As developers we
> >>need to ask what is the effect a proposed change have on the size of the
> >>installed activity. Currently 13.2.9 installed on an XO-1 or on a 2GB XO-1.5
> >>gives the user about 300MB of available storage.
> >>
> >>Tony
> >>
> >>On Monday, 07 May, 2018 02:42 AM, Vipul Gupta wrote:
> >>
> >>     Hi folks,
> >>
> >>     We are just done with our second meeting, of the project Setting up the
> >>     activity server and WikiPort. Do refer to the logs for the updates, all
> >>     comments and suggestions are appreciated. The blog with the updates is
> >>     going to be uploaded soon on my blog Mixster.
> >>     Logs are here - [3]http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/
> >>     2018-05-06T16:43:50
> >>     Tracker (updated) - [4]https://docs.google.com/document/d/
> >>     1VdzjA-DnEBh0ntHY17ktXlp7c2pIofq8458gSCTwiSM/edit?usp=sharing
> >>
> >>     Happy Contributing !!
> >>
> >>     Cordially,
> >>     Vipul Gupta
> >>     [5]Mixster | [6]Github
> >>
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     Sugar-devel mailing list
> >>     [7]Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>     [8]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >>
> >>References:
> >>
> >>[1] https://github.com/sugar-activities
> >>[2] http://activities.sugarlabs.org/activities/
> >>[3] http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2018-05-06T16:43:50
> >>[4] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VdzjA-DnEBh0ntHY17ktXlp7c2pIofq8458gSCTwiSM/edit?usp=sharing
> >>[5] https://mixstersite.wordpress.com/
> >>[6] https://github.com/vipulgupta2048
> >>[7] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>[8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Sugar-devel mailing list
> >>Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >>http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
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James Cameron

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