[Sugar-devel] meet to discuss the release process

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Walter

I'll try to make the meeting. Thank you for reminding us that Sugarlabs 
is about providing improved educational opportunities for learners.

Tony


On 09/18/2017 02:14 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Walter Bender 
> <walter.bender at gmail.com <mailto:walter.bender at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Would interested developers be available to meet in IRC on
>     Tuesday, 19 September, at 5PM US/ET (9PM UTC) to discuss the Sugar
>     release process? Given the chaos of late, it would be helpful if
>     we were all on the same page.
>
>     #sugar-meeting irc.freenode.net <http://irc.freenode.net>
>
>
> For background, I've enclosed the log from the most recent devel 
> meeting, 11 Sept 2017, where James Cameron led a discussion about the 
> then pending 0.111 maintenance release:
>
> [07:32:46] --> walterbender (~walter at 146.115.133.213 
> <mailto:walter at 146.115.133.213>) has joined #sugar
>
> [07:55:00] <Quozl> a sugar 0.111 planning discussion opens on irc, 
> will close in an hour.  ;-)
>
> [08:18:48] <walterbender> Quozl, in #sugar-meeting?
>
> [08:19:15] <Quozl> no, here. unannounced.  gives anybody who uses irc 
> continuously a chance to comment.  ;-)
>
> [08:22:29] <walterbender> Quozl, My goal would be to continue to work 
> towards easier migration to Debian, etc. Not sure what outstanding 
> issues are looming there.
>
> [08:22:50] <walterbender> and to make sure we are current with Fedora/GTK
>
> [08:23:22] <Quozl> In the core of Sugar, such as the desktop, the 
> toolkit, the datastore, no issues.  Also current with Fedora.  Some 
> issues may arise with Wayland eventually, but they haven't been 
> clearly defined yet.
>
> [08:23:49] <walterbender> I didn't think there was too much to do on 
> that front
>
> [08:24:39] <walterbender> we made a bit of headway on GTK3 and GST1.0 
> this summer (although not as much as I had hoped)
>
> [08:24:43] --> pikurasa (~devin at 209.6.193.250 
> <mailto:devin at 209.6.193.250>) has joined #sugar
>
> [08:24:49] <walterbender> at least turtle is ported :)
>
> [08:25:10] <Quozl> In theory, yes.  My experience with the Write 
> activity flicker problem, which underneath is AbiWord's Wayland code 
> changes breaking non-Wayland usage, is a bit of a guide as to how 
> things can break.  Rest of the world moves onto Wayland and anything 
> not using it fully tends to rot.
>
> [08:26:17] <Quozl> So yes, not much to do.  I'm just wanting to 
> recover from drought of releases, and next month it will have been a 
> year since 0.110.
>
> [08:26:22] <walterbender> the other issue is packaging
>
> [08:26:35] <walterbender> we are seemingly a bit in the dark ages there
>
> [08:27:06] <walterbender> but an area outside of my knowledge space
>
> [08:27:35] <walterbender> tincho has learned a lot on his current day 
> job and maybe able advise
>
> [08:28:12] <Quozl> snaps, flatpaks, and so on?
>
> [08:28:51] <walterbender> yes
>
> [08:29:00] <Quozl> our activity bundle format does certainly lack 
> secure authentication, we're dark ages in that respect.
>
> [08:30:22] <walterbender> I think flatpack atleast would carry the 
> correct dependencies
>
> [08:30:40] <Quozl> i've been avoiding the new bundling and packaging 
> formats because i've no use case for them myself.  my usual output is 
> operating system images with preinstalled activities. rishabh's 
> raspberry pi image uses the same general idea; his code just unzips 
> the bundles.
>
> [08:31:41] <Quozl> yes, i imagine a flatpak of sugar desktop, then one 
> for each activity, would be the way to go eventually.
>
> [08:32:08] <Quozl> icarito's push toward activities that can run 
> independently of the sugar desktop has relevance too.
>
> [08:32:37] <walterbender> yes. I have not had much luck replicating 
> his approach
>
> [08:32:48] <walterbender> but I haven;t pushed to hard in that direction
>
> [08:33:23] <walterbender> pikurasa, FYI 
> https://github.com/walterbender/musicblocks/issues/726 
> <https://github.com/walterbender/musicblocks/issues/726>
>
> [08:33:42] <walterbender> would love your feedback
>
> [08:37:38] <icarito> walterbender, you keep saying that all you need 
> to do is run 'sugar-activity' in your bundle dir ;-)
>
> [08:38:15] <icarito> missed a comma
>
> [08:38:20] <icarito> walterbender, you keep saying that; all you need 
> to do is run 'sugar-activity' in your bundle dir ;-)
>
> [08:38:23] <icarito> made it a colo;
>
> [08:38:26] <icarito> colon;
>
> [08:38:50] <icarito> the way to figure out what needs to be done on 
> Debian side is to test
>
> [08:39:27] <icarito> Quozl, are you going to lead a release?
>
> [08:39:29] <Quozl> i test debian stretch and sid regularly.  i'm fine 
> with it at the moment.  ubuntu artful however is broken because of 
> their transition from lightdm to gdm3.
>
> [08:39:57] <Quozl> icarito: nah, i'm just gunna do it.  not enough 
> followers to have any plans to "lead".
>
> [08:40:09] <icarito> i've not had much time to work on a newer Debian 
> SugarBlend
>
> [08:40:27] <icarito> Quozl, great, doing it is leading ;-)
>
> [08:40:51] <pikurasa> walterbender: you want feedback re: UI I assume?
>
> [08:41:15] <Quozl> icarito: i've already got local branches and local 
> release tarballs for 0.111, and have pre-edited the Wiki, next step is 
> testing locally before i upload and announce.
>
> [08:41:26] <walterbender> pikurasa, testing first of all... does it 
> actually solve any problems?
>
> [08:42:25] <pikurasa> walterbender: I have not tested enough yet. I 
> will let you know once I have.
>
> [08:42:49] <icarito> Quozl, still it would've been better for there to 
> have been a freeze etc...
>
> [08:42:50] <icarito> a process
>
> [08:43:05] <Quozl> icarito: no, not better.
>
> [08:43:16] <walterbender> pikurasa, thx
>
> [08:43:36] <walterbender> pikurasa, re drums, I cannot seem to be able 
> to reproduce the bug.
>
> [08:43:37] <icarito> Quozl, remember to refresh pofiles from pootle
>
> [08:43:42] <Quozl> icarito: sounds more like automaticity.  we did it 
> before therefore do it again.  i don't see any need for all those 
> extra steps.
>
> [08:43:51] <walterbender> maybe a video so I can follow exactly your 
> steps?
>
> [08:44:08] <pikurasa> walterbender: I can tell. I am really scratching 
> my head because it is so easy for me to reproduce. Happens every time.
>
> [08:44:30] <walterbender> pikurasa, I must be doing something 
> different than you
>
> [08:44:40] <icarito> i thought freezes had a purpose. I've not even 
> worked on Sugar without a release schedule or a roadmap
>
> [08:44:42] <walterbender> or using a different configuration of some sort
>
> [08:45:18] <Quozl> icarito: purpose of a freeze was coordinating 
> multiple people; unless you can show me multiple people i won't freeze.
>
> [08:45:37] <icarito> Quozl, another purpose would be to show signs of life
>
> [08:45:46] <walterbender> Quozl, do we need any i18n work?
>
> [08:45:46] <Quozl> icarito: no thanks, that's an artifice.
>
> [08:46:22] <icarito> walterbender, of course we do
>
> [08:46:24] <Quozl> walterbender: the only process we have for 
> detecting i18n work is translate.sugarlabs.org 
> <http://translate.sugarlabs.org/>count of words not translated; we 
> don't have any way to know if the POT file is updated in 
> translate.sugarlabs.org <http://translate.sugarlabs.org/>either.
>
> [08:46:48] <walterbender> Quozl, I meant in terms of new strings for 111
>
> [08:47:00] <walterbender> I know we have old work remaining
>
> [08:47:29] -*- pikurasa AFK
>
> [08:49:42] <icarito> so we move to release "when we feel like it"
>
> [08:49:51] <icarito> it's better than "when it's done" ;-)
>
> [08:49:55] <Quozl> walterbender: yes, mostly Tony Anderson's Save-As 
> feature.
>
> [08:50:18] <walterbender> Quozl, OK. Maybe CJL can get the word out
>
> [08:52:26] <icarito> Quozl, I don't think taking over is the best approach
>
> [08:52:32] <Quozl> walterbender: yes, that's what a 0.111 release will do.
>
> [08:52:35] <icarito> i.e. if you want to propose yourself to manage a 
> release
>
> [08:52:46] <icarito> then I would think that's a good idea
>
> [08:53:48] <icarito> but there are guidelines and every release 
> manager has followed them more or less
>
> [08:54:00] <Quozl> icarito: i'm not able to promise to that depth, but 
> i can release a 0.111 without unecessary cruft from old guidelines 
> that no longer apply, and nobody else has or will do that.
>
> [08:54:33] <icarito> Quozl, I support you! Just saying, lets cut the 
> fat and update those guidelines as part of the push
>
> [08:54:35] <Quozl> icarito: i've changed the guidelines so that many 
> of them are optional, as i do not think they matter when there are no 
> other active developers on the modules.
>
> [08:55:05] <icarito> cool yes I've seen you've worked on feature process
>
> [08:55:10] <icarito> all for trimming that
>
> [08:55:17] <icarito> in general, removing anything that doesn't really 
> exist
>
> [08:55:50] <Quozl> 
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release 
> <https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release> is mainly 
> what i'm talking about, not the feature process.
>
> [08:57:14] <Quozl> thanks, one hour discussion ends for me, back later.
>
> [08:57:39] <icarito> do announce perhaps there are others interested 
> in your fork
> [08:57:39] <icarito> ;-)
>
> [08:57:42] <walterbender> Quozl, thank you
>
> [08:58:43] -*- walterbender goes to make dinner
>
> ---
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel


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