[Sugar-devel] Thoughts on Collab

[Tony Anderson]

I'm sorry. I don't understand you. Currently collaboration in locations 
with a school server is done by ejabberd. This resulted from the fact 
that the original mesh and later ad hoc networks did not support the 
requirements of actual deployments. This means the software supports 
XMMP to connect with jabber servers.

Tony

On 07/24/2016 12:03 PM, Sam Parkinson wrote:
> I actually don't want to use XMPP for the new collab system.  I don't 
> care how nice the library is.  Telepathy isn't the best, maybe pyxmpp2 
> or nbxmpp are better.  But xmpp is not the right protocol for sugar.
>
> Say you want to solve problem 2 and have a shared group channel.  You 
> could use xmpp, but then every message you send has a huge xml wrapper 
> around it adding metadata.  The metedata is useful for an IM 
> application, but not very useful at all for Sugar.  So then maybe you 
> use a stream tube over xmpp?  Well (at least for telepathy - but it is 
> probably due to the xmpp protocol), you need to estabilish a group 
> chat before you can call the stream.  Boom, added 200loc and another 
> few round trips before the activity starts collaborating.
>
> You also say that XMPP is standard, which is nice.  I like standards 
> too.  But the way sugar uses xmpp, there is little point to it being 
> standard.  "Standard" in Sugar content means you choose between 
> ejabberd, jabberd and parsody.  You can't collaborate between Write 
> activity and $other_word_processor.  You can't collaborate between 
> Bibliography activity and $other_bibliography_manager.  Even if you 
> could, that would be based on the "Bibliography Manager Collaboration 
> Standard" - not XMPP.
>
> Sugar has generic applications - not chat clients.   We need a generic 
> application protocol - not an IM protocol.
>
> Sebastian raised the point of backwards compatibility for his use 
> case.  I think that we can provide a chat bridge no matter the 
> technology.  We could also just expose chat activity inside 
> traditional dekstop environments, as your work continues to move towards.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net> 
> wrote:
>> XMPP is a standard protocol (originally called jabber). Currently, 
>> collaboration is supported on the schoolserver by ejabberd. This 
>> implementation has not been changed for years AFIK. In any case, 
>> implementation of collaboration probably should be XMPP compliant to 
>> maintain maximum compatibility with what we are doing now. Tony On 
>> 07/24/2016 08:04 AM, Sebastian Silva wrote: > Currently I can use 
>> gajim to chat to Sugar users (it will trigger a Chat > activity 
>> invitation). > > This is the level I meant when I said "backward 
>> compatible". > > I don't know if python-nbxmpp or python-farstream 
>> support some sort of > tube, but for sure the api won't be the same 
>> as telepathy. Those are > gajim's foundations. > > > El 24/07/16 a 
>> las 00:59, sam at sam.today <mailto:sam at sam.today> escribió: >> How? Who 
>> understands how the current code works? Can we pass xmpp >> channels 
>> from gijam's xmpp library to telepathy? > 
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