[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Re: PR comments on 'Save as

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Martin

Generally six years and older accept that it works that way. The users I 
am referring to are not American children with years of experience at 
six with a smartphone. I am talking about children whose first and only 
experience with a computer is the XO.

By switch I assumed you meant opening the frame and clicking on a 
different activity. The alert is triggered by the user clicking on the 
Stop button.

I am not sure you have used Browse recently. A download has a progress 
alert which remains visible until the user clicks on an OK. It is not 
modal, but it also stays open until 'OK' is clicked. I have seen users 
build a stack several deep without knowing it (the progress alerts stack).

I can't see how switching to the Journal to change the name is more 
'optimal' than giving the user an easy way to name the project directly. 
Naturally, this is a value judgement, your is different from mine. Note: 
the 'screenshot' feature which has not received this sort of dialog uses 
the same alert. It gives the user a chance to name a screenshot without 
having to switch (by the frame) to the Journal and then back to the 
activity.

Any learner who creates a document certainly wants to save it with a 
meaningful name and will certainly appreciate be given that opportunity 
in such a simple and easy way.

Tony

On 07/12/2016 12:28 PM, Martin Dengler wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:52:10AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
>> Regardless of the wording, the alert does not save a document until 
>> the user gives it a name. If the user does not care about the 
>> document enough to give it a name, there is probably a reason. For 
>> example, if I were to launch Paint to show selecting a color for a 
>> brush, I would have no reason to save the scribble.
>>
>> To repeat, we need to consider this from the viewpoint of the user. 
>> The user click on the Stop button to quit the activity. The alert 
>> should result in terminating the activity whether the document is 
>> saved or not.
>
> I think the
>> This logic is used in the 'fiddler' implementation. It takes a moment 
>> to move the cursor to the entry, type an entry, and click save.
>
> Have you watched a six year-old wonder why their activity isn't 
> closing fast
> enough on an XO-1 (which doesn't even have the enforced stop of a modal
> dialog)?  Have you watched a child look away when talking to their 
> friend, then
> look back and not notice that a small part of the the screen changed 
> and just
> notice that they pressed quit and it hasn't?  Have you watched a small 
> child
> read some text that appears when they didn't ask it to, and then 
> decide what to
> do, then look down at the mouse pad, look back up, look back down to 
> move, look
> back up, move, miss the target button, look back down, move the mouse 
> pointer
> to the correct button, and press the mouse button?  Have you watched a 
> small
> child complete this multi-second reading-and-decision-required task 
> without
> distraction when they have already decided they want to be doing 
> another Sugar
> activity?  This "getting in the way of users" has been done to the 
> death -- for
> example, see 
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030901-00/?p=42723
> -- and we have good bugs with good alternatives.
>
>> The children I have observed using Sugar would for sure spend longer 
>> closing and switching between activities without any benefit from 
>> this modal alert."
>>
>> The alert only appears when the activity is closed not when switching 
>> between activities.
>
> By "switching" I meant "closing one and opening another".  It would 
> not appear
> every time Sugar decides the journal object should be saved, right?
>
>> The modal alert gives the user a chance to give his project a title - I
>> consider that very beneficial.
>
> Titles are beneficial, for sure.  Are they worth a modal dialog? No.
>
> How about this alternative: similar to how Browse notifies you that a 
> download
> has completed, let the activity exit *without* a modal dialog, but 
> when the
> activity closes and the sugar shell is in focus again, show the user 
> the "name
> or delete or whatever your journal entry" dialog in a non-modal way.  
> That way,
> users that are prone to notice and care and name their work can divert 
> from the
> "quit this activity" process and name it, but users that don't notice 
> or don't
> care will not be interrupted.
>
>> The alternative is for the user to open the
>> activity palette and change the name there. The other alternative is 
>> for the
>> user to switch to the Journal and change 'Write.activity' to 'Bolivar 
>> report'.
>
> The journal might even put the focus or highlight the latest entry and 
> suggest
> "Rename 'Write.activity' to 'Bolivar report'?".
>
>> Currently [the modal on-quit-ask-to-name-journal-entry dialog] is 
>> needed for
>> all activities
>
> That sounds suboptimal :(.
>
>> Tony
>
> Martin
>
>
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