[Sugar-devel] Python is good - don't waste time (was Re: The future of Sugar on XO-1s)
tony_anderson at usa.net
Wed Apr 6 20:37:01 EDT 2016
On 04/06/2016 09:17 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> I'm going to land squarely in the middle on this issue.
> I agree with Sam that what we have to offer in the world of a
> GNU/Linux desktop is far far better than any alternatives I have seen.
> The opportunity for growth there is demonstrably great. We have pretty
> decent offerings in Fedora, Debian, and its relatively popular Ubuntu
> instance. And I don't think the GNU desktop is going to disappear as
> rapidly as the pundits predict, despite the popularity of Android and
> iStuff, (And I think there are some serious problems of pedagogy in
> the solutions offered in the smartphone space.) The GNU desktop is
> going to be a relatively small market for the foreseeable future, but
> one where we can show thought leadership, reach some kids directly,
> and influence the rest of the ed tech industry through the tangible
> demonstration of our ideas. One spark of hope is that the Maker
> Movement -- the ed tech idea de jour -- is to a large extent Linux
> based. Might make sense to revisit improving the Sugar experience on
> RPi and other platforms popular with makers.
> Chromebooks are interesting in that (a) they can run GNU and
> consequently native Sugar quite well -- but I doubt too many schools
> will go down that path; and (b) you can almost treat them like
> computers in that the form factor is bit more friendly to programming,
> word processing, and other tool-oriented activities. That said, I hear
> rumors that Chrome OS will be subsumed by Android, so it is not
> obvious that it is a long-term viable solution any more than GNU. And
> the service model that is inherent to the web is really problematic
> from the point of view of children's privacy, security, and freedom.
> That said, there is something to be said for trying to meet people
> halfway. The browser is ubiquitous. If we can develop within the
> context of Sugar desktop and the browser, it is to a large extent a
> activities. (For similar reasons, I have tried to make most of my
> activities run in GNOME as well as Sugar.) It opens some doors. While
> not perfect, the Sugar JS activity experience is decent. And hopefully
> Lionel's effort will help us reach kids we would not have otherwise
> reached, even with a lesser solution than GNU. It is important that as
> we develop in this space we keep in mind some principles, such as
> making our source code readable, making sure things can run locally,
> focusing on tools rather than apps, providing explicit mechanisms for
> reflect, etc.
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 AM, <sam at sam.today <mailto:sam at sam.today>>
> Hi Dave,
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com
> <mailto:dave at lab6.com>> wrote:
>> I would be happy if by 2020 the "classic" Sugar desktop was
>> totally gone. Zero Python! In its place could be a laptop OS
>> derived from ChromiumOS, plus a nodejs web server serving on
>> localhost that is stuffed full of activities and content.
> Why? Why do we throw out the great technologies we have now? Why
> do we waste out time replacing Telepathy (amazing back end for
> collaboration)? Why do we waste our time replacing
> GtkSourceView? AbiWord? WebKitGtk? Gtk? These are great
> technologies. Sure they are not the current trend. But unlike
> your proposed nodejs server, we don't end up in callback hell.
> We have a technology stack that we have used for over 10 years.
> Those people who OLPC paid to start writing sugar made good
> choices; they left us with a great foundation even as OLPC down
> sizes. It works great across keyboard, mouse and touch (can
> sugarizer even show a tooltip on long touch?). It works great on
> slow computers (my trusty old Core2Duo laptop runs sugar faster
> than Sugarizer/webkit). It works great off-line (collaboration
> over salut doesn't need a centeral server). And all the activities
> are written in python now.
> Why waste time to javashit it? You can install GNU on a
> chromebook, you can install GNU on computer, you can install GNU
> on some tablets. Those are the pedagogic devices of now and the
> future. Those run faster with Gtk than with WebKit.
> Don't waste time.
> [GNU in this post refers to GNU/Linux]
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
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