[Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS

David Leeming david at leeming-consulting.com
Tue Sep 8 21:46:37 EDT 2015
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Hi,

Well my old Toshiba laptop for instance, a Qosmio i7, a few years old but was a $2000 laptop when new. On this I can't boot and run SOAS. It never completes booting, you go through the name, colour, gender, school grade but then it just shows the blank screen with only the mouse cursor screen never getting as far as the Sugar Home View..

Tested on a few of these - Lenovo Q190 desktop computer - using the 32 bit or 64 bit version that worked (can't remember but we tried both), it boots OK but freezes after starting a few activities. Could that be the activity rather than the OS? 

As I said, on a very old Asus EEE PC 1005H model, it works very reliably every time.

Could it be the LinuxLive USB Creator installer that is to blame?

David 


-----Original Message-----
From: quozl at laptop.org [mailto:quozl at laptop.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 11:05 a.m.
To: David Leeming
Cc: soas at lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS

The same hardware requirements for the corresponding version of
Fedora, since SOAS is based on Fedora.

SOAS itself has no hardware requirements beyond what Fedora has.

SOAS and Sugar are hardware agnostic.

However, some Sugar activities require a camera, some require
microphone and speaker, and most require wireless or wired networking.

A keyboard, touchpad or mouse, and touchscreen are also useful.

On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:50:06AM +1100, David Leeming wrote:
> Hi James,
> 
> What are the hardware requirements for SOAS to work?
> 
> David 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quozl at laptop.org [mailto:quozl at laptop.org] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:37 a.m.
> To: David Leeming
> Cc: soas at lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
> 
> G'day David,
> 
> I've no guidelines.  There are some industry best practices, but they
> boil down to;
> 
> - conditions of sale, e.g. the seller warrants compatibility with
>   Linux, or fails to,
> 
> - compatibility testing, e.g. running an uncustomised Linux such as
>   Fedora, and verifying it works with enough stability,
> 
> - component testing, e.g. a memory tester,
> 
> - scenario testing, e.g. sleep and wake, lid close, lid open, wireless
>   access, USB device access, sound playback, sound capture, video
>   playback, video capture,
> 
> For hardware being repurposed, it helps to know where you got it from,
> and what it has experienced.  A memory test may help to find thermal
> problems, like dust in fans, or battery longevity.
> 
> Otherwise, it's a never ending problem.  ;-)
> 
> On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 10:05:19AM +1100, David Leeming wrote:
> > Hi James,
> > 
> > Yes that is understood. Are there any guidelines we can follow in reviewing hardware for compatibility? 
> > 
> > David 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: quozl at laptop.org [mailto:quozl at laptop.org] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2015 10:00 a.m.
> > To: David Leeming
> > Cc: sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org; soas at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > Subject: Re: [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] SOAS
> > 
> > G'day David,
> > 
> > The stability problems you describe are not SOAS or Linux, but rather
> > hardware.  We find Sugar, SOAS, or Linux very stable when used on
> > known good hardware or in emulation on known good hardware.  Emulation
> > won't fix your stability issues though; you have to fix the hardware.
> > Use a memory tester.
> > 
> > The collaboration problems you describe are Sugar vs Fedora
> > compatibility, and as Sam says are on the list for Sugar developers to
> > fix.
> > 
> > On Wed, Sep 09, 2015 at 09:47:15AM +1100, David Leeming wrote:
> > > Hi Peter, 
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the confirmation of that. I did notice some issues, using the default online server with two or three SOAS active, I could sometimes see one of the identities in Neighbourhood but never both or all of them. Thus, collaboration was not possible to demonstrate.
> > > 
> > > However, even without collaboration the teachers in my Vanuatu workshop were keen to try for themselves. This issue we found was unpredictability. With some of the computer types we were using in the workshop it works well, but with others it might freeze after a few minutes, or not quite complete the boot sequence. We tested the 32-bit and 64-bit and several types of USB drive, reinstalled the USB drives and confirmed that there is a lot of hardware dependency. The only computer I have that it works on every time and never freezes is a small ASUS EEE PC network 6 years old. 
> > > 
> > > Likewise, when installing SOAS with Linux Live USB Creator it installs VirtualBox as an option, allowing one to launch SOAS from within Windows. But we found sometimes the boot sequence works fine and other times (especially when trying to demonstrate to a group) it would not start the Live boot sequence but go into Grub instead. So not very reliable way to do that either.
> > > 
> > > Hope this feedback is useful,
> > > 
> > > David Leeming
> > > Solomon Islands 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter Robinson [mailto:pbrobinson at gmail.com] 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 8:04 p.m.
> > > To: David Leeming
> > > Cc: Development of live Sugar distributions; Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas
> > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
> > > 
> > > Hi David,
> > > 
> > > Sorry, this seem to have fallen through the cracks.
> > > 
> > > > Iain referred me to a Fedora community where LinuxliveUSB installer was recommended and it works just fine. It also installs a Linux emulator for Windows Virtualbox and I found I could run SOAS beautifully in that way. That is very convenient for my purposes (a quick lead in to Sugar). I also found few problems booting USB sticks and SD cards installed using LinuxLiveUSB, on one machine it seems to hang but others it is fine. So it seems the installer was my issue.
> > > 
> > > I've never seen or heard of the above, I've also never used
> > > VirtualBox, glad it works for you.
> > > 
> > > > Regarding collaboration, if we have a few PC computers on the same WLAN running SOAS, can we expect them to see each other and collaborate in neighbourhood view, without a server (ie. in the same fashion as XOs on an ad-hoc network)? I seem to recall doing that with early versions of SOAS. If not, is there a simple/light way to enable collaboration/presence service on a local server sufficient to allow a few local SOAS machines to collaborate?. I am familiar with XS developments (up to 0.7) but in the schools in Vanuatu we'll be using gateway servers we have developed ourselves based on Debian (Jessie 8).
> > > 
> > > I believe there's an issue with recent versions on collaboration, I
> > > don't remember the exact issues, maybe one of the sugar devs can
> > > answer the reasons and when it's expected it can be fixed.
> > > 
> > > Peter
> > > 
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > David Leeming
> > > > Solomon Islands
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Peter Robinson
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2015 10:58 a.m.
> > > > To: Development of live Sugar distributions
> > > > Cc: Sugar-dev Devel; Iain Brown Douglas
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] SOAS
> > > >
> > > > Hi David,
> > > >
> > > > I'm the SoaS maintainer.
> > > >
> > > >> I want to demonstrate SOAS to teachers in Vanuatu. I would like to be more useful, but actually don't have the luxury of time to research these arcane technical issues in which I am not an expert. I just want to know, is there a version of SOAS that is properly tested and known to work? I have used SOAS many times before (years ago) without any problems. Which version is stable and will boot without errors and not hang on use?
> > > >
> > > > The lastest stable version is available here:
> > > > https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/
> > > >
> > > >> Could be hardware? I will try with another flashdrive. Is 2GB of persistent storage too little/too much?
> > > >
> > > > 2Gb should be fine.
> > > >
> > > > Ask here on the SoaS list if you've got any other queries or issues.
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > >> David Leeming
> > > >> Solomon Islands
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel-bounces at lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Iain Brown Douglas
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2015 7:52 p.m.
> > > >> To: David Leeming
> > > >> Cc: 'Sugar-dev Devel'
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] SOAS
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi David,
> > > >>
> > > >> From what you say, you already did a search for your error message.
> > > >>
> > > >> Does this Fedora forum answer cover your issue?
> > > >> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=301945
> > > >>
> > > >> I have been working with the script livecd-iso-to-disk and it works
> > > >> fine.
> > > >>
> > > >> I am working on SoaS Loader, here is a link to the work in progress.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://soas-loader.readthedocs.org/
> > > >>
> > > >> Good luck, and thanks for putting time in trying to demonstrate SoaS :)
> > > >>
> > > >> Iain
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 2015-07-21 at 10:51 +1100, David Leeming wrote:
> > > >>> Hello,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have familiarity with Sugar since working with OLPC from 2008, but I
> > > >>> haven’t been active in these communities for some time. I’m just
> > > >>> refreshing myself on current status of Sugar with a view to
> > > >>> introducing teachers to it in a forthcoming workshop in Vanuatu. We’ll
> > > >>> be using tablets as well as PCs so I have familiarised myself with
> > > >>> Sugarizer. I then intended to introduce the wider world of Sugar
> > > >>> conveniently with SOAS.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So I have downloaded both the 32-bit and 64-bit iso files and verified
> > > >>> their hashes. I also download the latest version of USB Live
> > > >>> Installer. I formatted a fairly new 16GB USB with FAT32 and installed
> > > >>> SOAS on it leaving 2000Mb of persistent memory. The USB stick is a
> > > >>> “SanDisk Cruzer Facet 16GB”.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Immediately I run into problems. When booting (on a fairly recent
> > > >>> Toshiba i7 laptop) it stops with “vesamenu.c32 not a com32r image”. On
> > > >>> pressing Tab key I do not see “Live” as an option, but it does start
> > > >>> with the option linux0. Sugar boots and I can use it for a few
> > > >>> minutes, I tried Speak and Turtle Art for instance, but within a short
> > > >>> time it hangs and needs a hard boot.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I repeated the whole process with the 32-bit (verified) iso file and
> > > >>> same problem. I’ll give this problem only a few hours as that is all I
> > > >>> have. But I would like to know what are the requirements for a
> > > >>> reliable repeatable experience with SOAS, as it says on the website,
> > > >>> to get Sugar into Vanuatu schools.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> David Leeming
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Solomon Islands
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Sugar-devel mailing list
> > > >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Sugar-devel mailing list
> > > >> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> SoaS mailing list
> > > >> SoaS at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > > > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > SoaS mailing list
> > > SoaS at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas
> > 
> > -- 
> > James Cameron
> > http://quozl.linux.org.au/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> 
> -- 
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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