[Sugar-devel] Planning for the future (Samuel Greenfeld)

[Walter Bender]

+1

PS: 50% of the ideas came from you and Ignacio :)

On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Sam P. <sam.parkinson3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> +1
>
> I think there are some ways to improve hardware independence.  Integrating
> sugar with a display manager would make it work in many (traditional?) IT
> situations where you have computers with networked student accounts.
>
> Over the ensuing years, we have also made efforts to reach out in
> other ways, some more successful than others: Sugar has been ported to
> virtually every major flavor of GNU/Linux. As a community, it has been
> difficult to support all of those efforts, but some, such as Trisquel,
> rival Fedora, where we still do our development, in terms of
> stability. (We have lagged behind in our Ubuntu support; given its
> popularity this has been a tactical mistake.) We also initiated the
> Sugar on a Stick and Sugar in a virtual machine efforts, which opened
> the door to getting a taste of Sugar on iOS and MS Windows platforms.
> These products have matured and are well maintained. In anticipation
> of the tablet bubble, we added touch support to Sugar; (it works, but
> the good news is that most people serious about using tablets for
> learning are also including keyboards these days.) Sugar also runs
> nicely on Chromebooks, which are making some inroads into the
> classroom.
>
> Yeah, ubuntu is a big issue!
>
> And, as Lionel mentioned, already three years ago we began in earnest
> an effort to support Javascript as a first order language in Sugar so
> as to both invite a broader community of developers in and being to
> offer Sugar activities to users of web browsers and Android
> (eventually iPhone) devices. Lionel has expanded upon that effort to
> try to offer the whole Sugar experience, not just individual
> activities. This work is on-going and is the focus of our proposal to
> Google Summer of Code 2015.
>
>
> Yeah this is a really awesome movement.  Just throwing around another
> opportunity idea, sugar activities are written in GTK, meaning it would be
> possible to make sugar activities work inside GNOME (or other DEs) as
> windows. Turtle does this, but it would be cool to expand this to a general
> library (#GSOC?).
>
> TB becoming a spin out is a great way to widen sugar's reach.  Tb is an
> awesome "first step" towards coding, and export to python and stuff are
> great features that help in a further intro to coding.
>
> And it is worth noting that 50% of the patches in the latest Sugar
> release came from kids.
>
> Yeah, but did 50% of the ideas come from users?
>
> All of that said, our future is far from clear. OLPC and OLPC
> deployments have been the largest source of funding, albeit erratic,
> for Sugar development and maintenance. (We continue to get some
> funding from Google, Trip Advisor, et al., but these $s are not
> general funds for supporting developers and code maintenance.) It
> seems that the OLPC well is running dry (We have a few proposals
> circulating but none in hand at the moment.) We've gotten little
> support from other hardware vendors, I believe in part because many of
> them still see Sugar Labs as an extension of OLPC, with whom they were
> competing.
>
>
> Well why not do a needles ui/design change :). It would probably change
> people's perception if we changed the xo icon or something (a la android 5)
> and made ourselves less look connected to olpc.  Not something to rush out
> and do without thinking, not something that we should waste development time
> on either, but an idea.
>
> So either Sugar Labs finds support for the core development team to
> remain focused full-time on Sugar or we scale back our release cycle
> to one that can be managed entirely by part-time volunteers.
>
> There are opportunities out there: for example, partnering with some
> of the classroom management solutions; finding funding for specific
> programs, such as Turtle Blocks, and finding more hardware partners.
> Meanwhile, we also need to keep Sugar relevant. I take the long view
> there, in that I think the core pedagogical ideas in Sugar are sound
> and that over time we'll be better situated to get these ideas into
> the hands of learners. (For example, Android is becoming more
> Sugar-friendly as it evolves.)
>
> Some of the reflection ideas that OLPC AU was pushing seemed really great.
> Hopefully they can get implemented.
>
> But I think whatever path we follow, consultation is the most important.
> One issue OLPCs and sugarlabs seems to have is the lack of consultation with
> students and teachers.  It is great that we have some educational idea or
> have read some paper about education that an 'expert' has written, however
> we are making an OS for students and teachers.  If the OS isn't helping
> students or if it confuses teachers, then what good is it really doing?  We
> can load sugar with data collection tools and what not, but nothing replaces
> talking to teachers, watching how they use sugar, and asking what they want
> changed.
>
> In fact this is not unique to Sugar and OLPC.  I am yet to use edutech at my
> school that feels like it was built for and WITH schools.  It feels locked
> up and controlled by visual designers and corporate managers that don't know
> the needs of schools.  Though sugar is open source, that is probably how it
> feels to those who can't code or change its source.
>
> I passionately believe that even if an edutech product can sell more copies
> by targeting features to appeal to principals and other decision makers
> instead of teachers, you can't improve anything that way.  I feel there is a
> huge opportunity for Sugar (or anyone else) to work with teachers and
> students to enhance their learning.  Having built the product with schools
> could be the 'killer feature'.
>
> The Sugar Oversight Board agreed to host a summit on the future of
> Sugar some time in the coming months. We've been doing some
> preparatory work and hope to get something scheduled soon.
>
>
> Great.  I really hope you get a bunch of teachers and students (that use
> sugar) who have never been involved in the development of sugar, and get
> them to guide the thinking.
>
> We don't code sugar to enjoy running a software project, do we?  Don't we
> code sugar to make these people smile every time they open their laptops?
> That's what I do :)
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
> Meanwhile, let's keep kicking around ideas here.
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
> On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Lionel Laské <lionel at olpc-france.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Samuel,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to share your vision. I think you're right, SugarLabs lack of a
>> clear
>> long-term vision that we could share with all contributors. Hope that your
>> mail we'll give us opportunity to share our thought on that.
>>
>> Here's mine.
>>
>>
>>
>> If Sugar want live, it can't be limited to a niche platform: neither the
>> XO,
>> neither a Fedora computer. I'm sure we're all convinced that the better
>> platform for education is a computer but today all others decision maker
>> in
>> the world seems to think that it's a tablet or even a mobile.
>>
>>
>>
>> So the question is how we could answer to requests for these new platforms
>> thought keeping our roots: an unique UI for children, a reflection tool
>> (Journal), a collaborative platform (Presence) and the most important -
>> free
>> an open source contents.
>>
>>
>>
>> My point of view is that we must not invest time to think how we could be
>> compliant with a new platform, we need to think in another way: how we
>> could
>> port Sugar on Any platform ? Any computer (from the bigger one to the tiny
>> one: raspberryPI), any laptop, any tablet, any mobile.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the answer is simple: web technologies allow every device to run very
>> complex software. It's the only solution to be compliant with any device.
>> It's where we need to put our investments.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's why I've got a personal engagement on Sugar for the Web from years:
>>
>> First to allow Sugar activities to be written using web technologies. From
>> Sugar 0.100 thanks to Sugar Web, every developer could write new Sugar
>> activities using exclusively HTML5/JavaScript - without any line of
>> Python/Gtk.
>> Second to create a Sugar container for the web - named Sugarizer - that
>> could host any Sugar Web activities and that reproduce the unique Sugar
>> features: Sugar UI, Journal and Presence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sugar for the Web is not the Sugar successor, Sugar for the Web is a way
>> to
>> do a transition from Sugar for the XO to an universal version of Sugar
>> that
>> could run on any device so that could be used by any children anywhere on
>> the world.
>>
>> Most important with Sugar for the Web we don't leave alone our current
>> base
>> of Sugar users, with Sugar 0.100+: any new Sugar Web activities will be
>> usable both on Sugar on "old" devices and Sugar on new devices.
>>
>>
>>
>> With Sugarizer and Sugar Web, Sugar for any device already exist. But to
>> become a reality, we need to invest more on it:
>>
>> Have a clear roadmap of transition between "old" Sugar activities to Sugar
>> Web activities.
>> Convince a more important community to join us. Sugar is the better
>> learning
>> platform, with Sugar for the Web, it should be easy to convince other
>> communities to help us. I think specifically to Mozilla because they have
>> a
>> clear engagement on web and open source and Google because of their wish
>> to
>> embrace education with Chrome. We need to ask help from them.
>> Experiment: we need to start deployment as soon as possible to
>> demonstrate.
>> At OLPC France, we've got ambition to start a first experimental
>> deployment
>> of Sugarizer before the end of the year.
>>
>>
>>
>> All of us spent years on promoting the Sugar philosophy. We have the
>> choice
>> to look backward or look forward. My choice is clear: with Sugar for the
>> Web
>> I will give to every children the same opportunities I gave to XO users.
>>
>>
>> Best regards from France.
>>
>>
>>                        Lionel.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 18:36:34 -0500
>>> From: Samuel Greenfeld <samuel at greenfeld.org>
>>> To: IAEP SugarLabs <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>
>>> Subject: [IAEP] Planning for the future
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <CA+cAqjM7=hQOu47mHMr9AQtNBzKRmjDb00nxbzENnBO+1WKvdA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Disclaimer: The following are my views, and not the views of my current
>>> or
>>> past employers.
>>>
>>> About a year ago, I privately expressed concern that Sugar needed to
>>> ensure
>>> it had long-term sponsorship and a long-term user base.
>>>
>>> Since then, both the historical US-based OLPC organization and Sugar Labs
>>> have not publicly said much about their long-term plans, with OLPC also
>>> being rather closemouthed about the present.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile contributors silently leave.  It is hard to justify
>>> volunteering
>>> when you don't know who will benefit besides mysterious "customers."
>>>
>>> Everyone seems happy to cite their past successes.  No one corrects the
>>> press when they report stale information in their favor.
>>>
>>>
>>> There is no shame in being a smaller project.  But we need to ask the
>>> hard
>>> questions.  With Sugar, getting users and developers for a niche platform
>>> is a problem.  With OLPC, everyone seems to love repeating the 2 or 2.5
>>> million number for laptops historically shipped.  Rarely is it asked how
>>> many XOs been shipped in the past year or are in active use & where.
>>>
>>> Sugar & OLPC need to come up with long-term strategies.  While there is
>>> nothing public I have seen stopping One Education's XO Infinity from
>>> running Sugar, I haven't seen anything stopping it from running anything
>>> else.  It is also unclear how much One Education is willing to engage
>>> with
>>> the historical Sugar & OLPC communities (or how much they can tell us at
>>> this time).
>>>
>>>
>>> Historically there have been many philosophical questions like "Does
>>> there
>>> need to be a physical machine?" and "Have we succeeded if every child has
>>> a
>>> computer, but from someone else?"
>>>
>>> I do not believe Sugar or OLPC is down for the count.  But in order to
>>> engage One Education, governments, and other educational groups, both
>>> Sugar
>>> and the historical OLPC structure need to have plans to transition to the
>>> future.  Otherwise these plans will be written for us.
>>>
>>> I suspect I know how things will end; but I wish it was not happening
>>> though silence.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> SJG
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 02:31:23 -0300
>>> From: Gonzalo Odiard <godiard at sugarlabs.org>
>>> To: Sora Edwards-Thro <sora at unleashkids.org>
>>> Cc: Chris Leonard <cjl at sugarlabs.org>, grassroots
>>>         <grassroots at lists.laptop.org>,  olpc-open
>>> <olpc-open at lists.laptop.org>,
>>>         Aaron Borden <adborden at live.com>,       olpc-sf
>>> <olpc-sf at lists.laptop.org>,
>>>         iaep <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>,        Nick Doiron
>>> <ndoiron at mapmeld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [IAEP] OLPC-SF February meeting
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <CAJ+iPVSKb3puCeQc57Kc3TUA4Df1=AkVtwdPT0abj-aQrUHYqA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Only a English version is available right now.
>>>
>>> There are another activity with a older version in French, but the last
>>> version is from 2009
>>> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4195
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Sora Edwards-Thro
>>> <sora at unleashkids.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Gonzalo, if a French translation exists and it's easy to include both
>>> > it
>>> > and the English translations when making the templates, that would be
>>> > great. But if there's only room for one language, please have it be
>>> > English.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks!
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Gonzalo Odiard <godiard at sugarlabs.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Thanks Nick.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Nick Doiron <ndoiron at mapmeld.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I believe the official language code is HT
>>> >>> On Feb 23, 2015 9:09 AM, "Gonzalo Odiard" <godiard at sugarlabs.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> I can create the templates to do the translation and sent to you.
>>> >>>> Or I can upload and you can translate them online.
>>> >>>> The process is a little different than with the pottle server used
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> translate activities,
>>> >>>> but the idea is the same.
>>> >>>> I need the localization code you are using to Haitian Creole
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gonzalo
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Sora Edwards-Thro <
>>> >>>> sora at unleashkids.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Good to see it's been updated! I look forward to checking it out to
>>> >>>>> see what content we're using in Haiti that it's missing. We've been
>>> >>>>> using
>>> >>>>> our customized course guide
>>> >>>>> <http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Haiti_Course_Guide> to help teachers
>>> >>>>> design lesson plans, but materials that provide a basic overview of
>>> >>>>> the
>>> >>>>> activities themselves would also be helpful. How would I go about
>>> >>>>> helping
>>> >>>>> with translation efforts into Haitian Creole?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Gonzalo Odiard
>>> >>>>> <godiard at sugarlabs.org
>>> >>>>> > wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> A little unrelated, but could be useful. The new version of Help
>>> >>>>>> activity added information about more activities,
>>> >>>>>> including many you named.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4051
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Help activity content can be translated if you or other are
>>> >>>>>> interested.
>>> >>>>>> Actual content is based in the work of many volunteersin this
>>> >>>>>> list,
>>> >>>>>> and more content can be easily added.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Gonzalo
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Sora Edwards-Thro <
>>> >>>>>> sora at unleashkids.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for passing that on, Gonzalo! (note to self: when
>>> >>>>>>> embarking
>>> >>>>>>> on a project, first go to Sugar Labs and search
>>> >>>>>>> extremely-relevant
>>> >>>>>>> terms
>>> >>>>>>> like "Story" instead of just assuming the stuff you've seen /
>>> >>>>>>> used
>>> >>>>>>> before
>>> >>>>>>> is the only stuff that exists).
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I like the open-endedness of Story. It also looks like it might
>>> >>>>>>> not
>>> >>>>>>> be hard to modify the images it's using - kids could nominate
>>> >>>>>>> different
>>> >>>>>>> pictures, or you could take examples from stories the class had
>>> >>>>>>> read.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Gonzalo Odiard <
>>> >>>>>>> godiard at sugarlabs.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> You can add Story
>>> >>>>>>>> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/es-ES/sugar/addon/4565
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 2:01 AM, Sora Edwards-Thro <
>>> >>>>>>>> sora at unleashkids.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> We're looking for programming help on student writing software;
>>> >>>>>>>>> hope some OLPC SF folks can become involved! I'm over on the
>>> >>>>>>>>> East Coast,
>>> >>>>>>>>> but I can join in over Skype / respond to questions via email
>>> >>>>>>>>> if
>>> >>>>>>>>> folks are
>>> >>>>>>>>> interested.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Here are some more details:
>>> >>>>>>>>> Unleash Kids recently received recognition
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.unleashkids.org/blog/> for our iloominate
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://iloominate-haiti.herokuapp.com/edit> app (shout-out to
>>> >>>>>>>>> Caryl Bigenho for her input and Mike Dawson, whose Ustad Mobile
>>> >>>>>>>>> project was
>>> >>>>>>>>> also recognized). The app helps teachers write books
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://projectrive.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/lascahobas-workshops-final-review/>
>>> >>>>>>>>> for beginning readers by recommending easy words; now we're
>>> >>>>>>>>> shifting our
>>> >>>>>>>>> focus to supporting student writers.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> There are already several excellent writing activities for the
>>> >>>>>>>>> Sugar, which we're including as we design lessons for a summer
>>> >>>>>>>>> writing
>>> >>>>>>>>> workshop for our XO projects in Haiti:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> -Labyrinth
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4078>, a
>>> >>>>>>>>> mindmapping activity that gets kids thinking
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.unleashkids.org/2013/07/31/story-activity-continued-and-the-results/>
>>> >>>>>>>>> about how to lay out their ideas on paper
>>> >>>>>>>>> -Fototoon
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4253>,
>>> >>>>>>>>> comic-book style creations; a perpetual favorite
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://projectrive.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/first-week-of-classes/>
>>> >>>>>>>>> -Newspaper <http://seeta.in/j/products/37.html>, an example of
>>> >>>>>>>>> how templates can enable kids
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://blog.unleashkids.org/2013/08/01/journal-mission-of-hope/>
>>> >>>>>>>>> to explore new formats
>>> >>>>>>>>> -Prompt
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://olpc-yokwe.tumblr.com/post/39897602954/prompt-activity>,
>>> >>>>>>>>> literally just presents students with a random image from a
>>> >>>>>>>>> library for
>>> >>>>>>>>> them to write about...proof that simple stuff can be powerful
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> We want to supplement these great activities with some new
>>> >>>>>>>>> stuff,
>>> >>>>>>>>> based on teacher recommendations. A lot of the focus will be on
>>> >>>>>>>>> creating
>>> >>>>>>>>> templates and scenarios that kids can use as inspiration - for
>>> >>>>>>>>> example, we
>>> >>>>>>>>> can present the kids with a scene of people talking, where the
>>> >>>>>>>>> speech
>>> >>>>>>>>> bubbles aren't filled in, and ask them to fill in the speech
>>> >>>>>>>>> bubbles.
>>> >>>>>>>>> That's one of many ideas for an effective tool.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> We also hope to make use of the XSCE schoolserver installed
>>> >>>>>>>>> on-site to enable the kids to collaborate and share the
>>> >>>>>>>>> finished
>>> >>>>>>>>> products
>>> >>>>>>>>> with one another.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Our most dire need is help with the programming, but we also
>>> >>>>>>>>> welcome input on any and all aspects.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you everyone!
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Sora Edwards-Thro
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:49 AM, Aaron Borden
>>> >>>>>>>>> <adborden at live.com>
>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> OLPC San Francisco will be hosting our monthly meeting
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Saturday,
>>> >>>>>>>>>> February 14th, from 10AM - 1PM at the downtown SFSU campus,
>>> >>>>>>>>>> 835
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Market
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Street, Room 597 (the fishbowl).
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Our meetings are held on the second Saturday of every month.
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Everyone is
>>> >>>>>>>>>> welcome to join us for our monthly meeting! We'll be
>>> >>>>>>>>>> discussing
>>> >>>>>>>>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>>> latest in OLPC events and give updates on our local (and
>>> >>>>>>>>>> global)
>>> >>>>>>>>>> projects. There will be plenty of XO laptops with the latest
>>> >>>>>>>>>> builds to
>>> >>>>>>>>>> play around with, too. Please post with any additional agenda
>>> >>>>>>>>>> items.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Facebook https://www.facebook.com/events/325843320953044/
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Google+
>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://plus.google.com/events/crf7g4e84aag78ssn761danaj8s
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aaron Borden
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Human and Hacker
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>>>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> >>>>>>>>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> >>>>>>>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>> Gonzalo Odiard
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> SugarLabs - Software for children learning
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> Gonzalo Odiard
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> SugarLabs - Software for children learning
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Gonzalo Odiard
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> SugarLabs - Software for children learning
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> >>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> >>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Gonzalo Odiard
>>> >>
>>> >> SugarLabs - Software for children learning
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gonzalo Odiard
>>>
>>> SugarLabs - Software for children learning
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> IAEP at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>> End of IAEP Digest, Vol 83, Issue 17
>>> ************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org