[Sugar-devel] Language Support
James Cameron
quozl at laptop.org
Wed Aug 12 18:44:33 EDT 2015
I agree.
Tony, please make sure you test the changes that have already been
done for 0.108.
On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 04:19:37PM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
> I think Tony is describing a problem on the language selector on 0.106, already
> fixed on 0.108.
> If you add a new language, by default add English -USA,
> if the user don't change that default and restart, the second language is not
> added.
> Try the same on sugar-build and should work
>
> On Aug 12, 2015 12:49 PM, "Tony Anderson" <[1]tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, Walter
>
> I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks like
> that this was the intent of the + and - buttons. I think the real problem
> with
> that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the +
> button which suggests that you should click on + to add another language.
> The
> reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from an
> accidental switch.
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson <[2]
> tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:
>
> Hi, Walter
>
> When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like
> the Mate
> keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
> add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an
> approach
> would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.
>
> I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
> options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
> override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
> reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
> solution.
>
> -walter
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson <[3]
> tony_anderson at usa.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sam
>
> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after
> all, they are
> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to
> Arabic, probably
> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the
> list. However,
> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit
> trickier.
>
> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought
> through the
> deployment process. The computers are typically batch
> flashed before
> being
> assigned to students.
> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade
> level can't be
> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain
> to the
> teachers
> how to
> provide (or have the children provide) the correct
> information through
> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality
> many deployments
> share one laptop
> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class
> 5 in the next
> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these
> settings are
> really not accurate.
>
> Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
> circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would
> apply to
> groups of students rather than individual students. It could
> still
> inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.
>
> Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is
> also written
> on
> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is
> theirs in the
> charging
> rack.
>
> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it
> will be done by
> an
> experienced computer user and that others will be done by
> students and
> teachers is difficult.
>
> It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the
> language set
> to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe
> we
> should have some way to resetting to the language in which the
> laptop
> was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
> control panel section? This will require our keeping track of
> the
> initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
> Thoughts on this?
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hey Tony,
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson <[4]
> tony_anderson at usa.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi, Sam
>
> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how
> we explain it to
> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and
> students in primary
> school in the
> developing world with little or no prior computer
> experience. As
> developers, we often see things as simple because we
> have used many
> others
> like it. It may not
> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>
> Yep. But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd
> be pretty
> amazing
> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by
> their deployment
> :)
>
> However, we probably should think about the dialect/
> region selection. If
> I
> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list
> should be in
> Arabic.
>
> Ticket: [5]https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
>
> We may also want to think about that list - do the
> entries represent
> countries where the language is spoken or represent
> dialects? I suspect
> the
> lists were
> copied from earlier releases.
>
> They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for
> the
> distribution.
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> The control panel is very simple. The left column is
> the language and
> the
> right column is the region/dialect.
>
> Maybe that should be a column header?
>
> Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.
> The dropdown for
> the
> language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add
> a new language
> button is a "+". The hitbox for the expand/contract
> the dropdown
> includes
> the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
>
> Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!)
> to be more
> consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui
> considering it does a very
> complex job.
>
> I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image
> that you are
> running,
> can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're
> describing.
>
> Please consider opening separate tickets for the
> issues.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson <[6]
> tony_anderson at usa.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> To continue the story. The way it works, you click
> on the button to the
> left of the language (English) to
> get a list. You click on the language to get a
> dialect (or region?).
> You
> click on the dialect to select it. You then click
> on the
> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then
> click on the top right
> button to restart as always.
>
> After restarting the added language (German) is the
> system language.
> However, when going back to the
> language selection in settings, German is the only
> language shown. So
> you need to click to open the language
> list, click on English. This opens up the options
> of Australien and
> USA.
> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
> option has disappeared.
>
> I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects
> available. That list
> is
> in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
> switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the
> button to the left
> of
> Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
> in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English
> is evidently shown
> in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
> Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic
> except USA. I
> selected
> USA and switched the system to Spanish.
>
> I then went back to settings and got a list of
> languages in Spanish
> (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
> of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the
> original English,
> USA option.
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
>
> I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday
> trying to show how easy it
> is to switch
> languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
>
> In previous versions, you go to settings and
> language and get a long
> list of supported
> languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add
> languages in the order
> you prefer'.
> So I clicked on + to add German. It added
> another row: English USA + -
>
> In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any
> other language that
> English USA.
>
> However, today I found that the trick is to
> click on the button to the
> left of the word English. This
> opens the expected list. Click on German adds a
> line with dialects:
> Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
>
> Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add'
> together with a '+' button at
> least in my case led to confusion.
>
> Tony
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> References:
>
> [1] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [2] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [3] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [4] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [5] https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
> [6] mailto:tony_anderson at usa.net
> [7] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [8] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [9] mailto:Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> [10] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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--
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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