[Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Gonzalo Odiard]

I think Tony is describing a problem on the language selector on 0.106,
already fixed on 0.108.
If you add a new language, by default add English -USA,
if the user don't change that default and restart, the second language is
not added.
Try the same on sugar-build and should work
On Aug 12, 2015 12:49 PM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:

> Hi, Walter
>
> I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks like
> that this was the intent of the + and - buttons.  I think the real problem
> with
> that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the +
> button which suggests that you should click on + to add another language.
> The
> reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from an
> accidental switch.
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Walter
>>>
>>> When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like the
>>> Mate
>>> keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
>>> add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an approach
>>> would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.
>>>
>> I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
>> options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
>> override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
>> reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
>> solution.
>>
>> -walter
>>
>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Sam
>>>>>
>>>>> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
>>>>> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic,
>>>>> probably
>>>>> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
>>>>> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
>>>>> deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before
>>>>> being
>>>>> assigned to students.
>>>>> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't
>>>>> be
>>>>> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the
>>>>> teachers
>>>>> how to
>>>>> provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
>>>>> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many
>>>>> deployments
>>>>> share one laptop
>>>>> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the
>>>>> next
>>>>> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
>>>>> really not accurate.
>>>>>
>>>> Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
>>>> circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
>>>> groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
>>>> inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.
>>>>
>>>> Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written
>>>>> on
>>>>> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the
>>>>> charging
>>>>> rack.
>>>>>
>>>>> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done
>>>>> by
>>>>> an
>>>>> experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
>>>>> teachers is difficult.
>>>>>
>>>> It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
>>>> to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
>>>> should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
>>>> was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
>>>> control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
>>>> initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
>>>> Thoughts on this?
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Tony,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
>>>>>> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in
>>>>>> primary
>>>>>> school in the
>>>>>> developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
>>>>>> developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many
>>>>>> others
>>>>>> like it. It may not
>>>>>> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty
>>>>> amazing
>>>>> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their
>>>>> deployment
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in
>>>>>> Arabic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
>>>>>
>>>>> We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
>>>>>> countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I
>>>>>> suspect
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> lists were
>>>>>> copied from earlier releases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the
>>>>> distribution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tony,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> right column is the region/dialect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe that should be a column header?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
>>>>>> button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown
>>>>>> includes
>>>>>> the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
>>>>>> consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> complex job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are
>>>>>> running,
>>>>>> can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> left of the language (English) to
>>>>>>> get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?).
>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>> click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
>>>>>>> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
>>>>>>> button to restart as always.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
>>>>>>> However, when going back to the
>>>>>>> language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
>>>>>>> you need to click to open the language
>>>>>>> list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and
>>>>>>> USA.
>>>>>>> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
>>>>>>> option has disappeared.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That list
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
>>>>>>> switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the left
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
>>>>>>> in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently
>>>>>>> shown
>>>>>>> in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
>>>>>>> Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I
>>>>>>> selected
>>>>>>> USA and switched the system to Spanish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish
>>>>>>> (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
>>>>>>> of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English,
>>>>>>> USA option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it
>>>>>>>> is to switch
>>>>>>>> languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long
>>>>>>>> list of supported
>>>>>>>> languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the
>>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>> you prefer'.
>>>>>>>> So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA
>>>>>>>> + -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that
>>>>>>>> English USA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> left of the word English. This
>>>>>>>> opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects:
>>>>>>>> Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> least in my case led to confusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
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