[Sugar-devel] NPR story on OLPC in Peru

[Walter Bender]

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Christoph Derndorfer
<christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Christoph Derndorfer
>> <christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
>> > <gerald.ardito at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I wanted to share that we have faced the same criticisms in our school
>> >> regarding the XOs. For the last four years, the teachers and students
>> >> have
>> >> complained that the devices do not connect well or reliably to our
>> >> wireless
>> >> network.
>> >>
>> >> Obviously, in our case, we have a wireless network and essentially
>> >> continuous access to the internet. But, what I have had to fight
>> >> against is
>> >> that this is the most basic use of any computing device.
>> >>
>> >> The only way I have been able to stem this tide is to come up with
>> >> projects and programs that made use of the XOs as standalone or mesh
>> >> networked devices. For example, we have done a lot with Memorize and
>> >> Etoys
>> >> and Scratch (and beginning to work with TurtleBlocks). I have found
>> >> that
>> >> once the students and teachers are involved with these activities, the
>> >> internet stuff goes away.
>> >>
>> >> But the bigger point that is missed in the story, and the broader
>> >> conversation, is that the XOs and Sugar tap into non-traditional
>> >> methods of
>> >> teaching and learning. When this invisible line is crossed, real magic
>> >> happens. It is the conversations which illuminate this invisible line
>> >> that
>> >> is tough.
>> >
>> >
>> > Gerald,
>> >
>> > please don't forget that very few of the teachers in Peru have the
>> > affordances available to you when you worked against that tide and
>> > helped
>> > your pupils reach that invisible line. You have received countless years
>> > of
>> > professional training, have ready access to the world's and the
>> > community's
>> > accumulated knowledge about using XOs and Sugar (thanks to the
>> > Internet),
>> > deal with student bodies who generally don't go hungry, have a pyhsic
>> > and
>> > social infrastructure that's available at very few Peruvian schools,
>> > etc.
>> >
>> > In short, I believe in the importance of crossing that invisible line
>> > and I
>> > have been lucky enough to see some glimpses of that happening in the
>> > past
>> > few years. However a significant number of pupils and teachers in Peru
>> > are
>> > miles and miles away from that line and will need other ways of support
>> > to
>> > even get them close to it.
>> >
>> > I also think it's odd to see how the role of the Internet and the
>> > connectivity it enables between people is apparently deemphasized in
>> > this
>> > conversation. I remember a time where Connectivity was one of the 5
>> > principles of OLPC, and for good reasons I dare say. Due to the
>> > limitations
>> > of the Mesh network (and similarly so the newer ad-hoc networking
>> > options)
>> > and the lack of infrastructure components such as access points most
>> > pupils
>> > and teachers in Peru barely have access to local connectivity and all
>> > the
>> > affordances (incl. Sugar's collaboration features) and value it
>> > provides.
>>
>> No one is discounting the dire state of connectivity in Peru and as
>> CJL pointed out, there are people activitly trying to do something
>> about it, not just talk about it.
>
>
> Point taken.
>
>>
>> >
>> > Also I believe that people here will simply have to get used to bad news
>> > (whether fully justified or not) coming out of Peru. The project there
>> > still
>> > has potential but unless a lot of additional resources and brain power
>> > are
>> > invested into its overall value proposition and usefulness will always
>> > remain questionable at best.
>>
>> I think you are projecting your own agenda on this discussion.
>
>
> And you're not? ;-)

Actually, not. I am stating my opinion, not putting words in the
mouths of others. There is a difference.

>
>>
>> Again,
>> no one is burying their head in the sand re short-comings, but at
>> least some of us believe that lack of Internet access does not mean
>> lack of opportunity to learn.
>
>
> I'm not saying that a lack of Internet access equals a lack of learning
> opportunities (and I agree with your fundamental criticism of the NPR
> article there). At the same time there's no doubt that what is already an
> *extremely* challenging thing to do under the best of circumstances (getting
> across that line) is made even harder without Internet connectivity or
> offline substitutes such as school servers.

Agreed. But perhaps for different reasons. I think the value of the
Internet to the project is much more about building a community of
practice and support than accessing learning materials. The Amazonas
page in Facebook is a case in point.

regards.

-walter
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
>>
>> regards.
>>
>> -walter
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Christoph
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Just my two cents.
>> >> Gerald
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Christoph Derndorfer
>> >> <christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jza at oooes.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>> > On 10/13/12, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> Alexandro,
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> I think you are grossly underestimating the connectivity problem
>> >>>> >> in
>> >>>> >> Peru.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Yes maybe, but I understand most educational systems dont have
>> >>>> > enough
>> >>>> > budget to acquire connectivity so getting connectivity from other
>> >>>> > sources like public buildings, libraries, will allow other resource
>> >>>> > to
>> >>>> > come through without needing to be funded by the educational
>> >>>> > budget.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Now if we are talking about, the whole town not having ways on
>> >>>> > connecting, then the next option would be looking for alternative
>> >>>> > sources, in Mexico they used Satelite modems.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > http://www.scribd.com/doc/10324524/Capacitacion-Para-Maestros-Uso-Del-Aula-Enciclomedia#page=15
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > But other mediums like DSL modems attached to a wifi router will be
>> >>>> > able to get some basic Internet for HTML/images, IRC, etc. The big
>> >>>> > question is about the level of connectivity for copper phone lines.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It seems that a fair number of offline requirements will be served by
>> >>>> the XS school server, but I don't see that show up in any of the
>> >>>> conversations. Does any location in Peru use any version of the XS?
>> >>>> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/School_server)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm not aware of any schools having school servers, at least they
>> >>> didn't
>> >>> have them when I was there in 2010. The next best thing were USB
>> >>> drives with
>> >>> some collections of offline materials compiled by DIGETE but as far as
>> >>> I can
>> >>> tell only a certain percentage of teachers ever received theirs.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Christoph
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> cheers,
>> >>>> Sameer
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> regards.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> -walter
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> --
>> >>>> >> Walter Bender
>> >>>> >> Sugar Labs
>> >>>> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> >> Devel mailing list
>> >>>> >> Devel at lists.laptop.org
>> >>>> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > --
>> >>>> > Alexandro Colorado
>> >>>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >>>> > http://es.openoffice.org
>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>> > Devel mailing list
>> >>>> > Devel at lists.laptop.org
>> >>>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>> >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Christoph Derndorfer
>> >>>
>> >>> volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
>> >>> editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
>> >>> contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]
>> >>>
>> >>> e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
>> >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Christoph Derndorfer
>> >
>> > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
>> > editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
>> > contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]
>> >
>> > e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Walter Bender
>> Sugar Labs
>> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Christoph Derndorfer
>
> volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
> editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
> contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]
>
> e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
>
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org