[Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24

[Gonzalo Odiard]

Try http://en.flossmanuals.net/ActivitiesGuideSugar/Introduction

Gonzalo

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Lloyd Treleven
<lloyd_treleven at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  The link tohttp://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf
>
> <http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf%20>is
> broken  I tried to locate the pdf here
> :http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ but couldn't find it
>
> > From: sugar-devel-request at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > Subject: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
> > To: sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:00:08 -0500
> >
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: [DESIGN] Messages notification (Martin Dengler)
> > 2. Re: More new and revised chapters of "Make Your Own Sugar
> > Activities!" ready for review, feedback (Aleksey Lim)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 02:06:54 +0000
> > From: Martin Dengler <martin at martindengler.com>
> > To: Martin Abente <martin.abente.lahaye at gmail.com>
> > Cc: sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Messages notification
> > Message-ID: <20101107020654.GT4822 at ops-13.xades.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 03:07:29AM -0300, Martin Abente wrote:
> > > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Martin Dengler <
> martin at martindengler.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 06:02:28PM -0300, Martin Abente wrote:
> > > > > Hello amigos,
> > > > >
> > > > > Recently I encountered many situations where a system-wide
> > > > > notification-messages system is required as a basis for many bug
> fixes or
> > > > > enhancements.
> > > > [...]
> > > > > Currently, Sugar does not have a mechanism to communicate to users
> > > > > different kind of information about sugar itself.
> > > >
> > > > What about the notification system? The Log activity? The Journal
> > > > Full warning? The Frame? There are a lot of communication
> > > > mechanisms, but they dn't seem to do what you wnat:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > * The notification system only shows an icon floating, and if you want
> to
> > > show a message you have to implement a palette manually, not so DRY
> > > considering all the use cases.
> >
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "DRY". The reason - I guess - for only
> > the icon is because text requires translation and literacy (a point
> > you make later). I prefer text (obviously, since we developers work
> > with text as much as possible) but this requires a change to the HIG.
> > We should think hard about why, and justify it.
> >
> > > * Why the user should start an activity to know what is happening?
> >
> > I know, this is odd for developers/computer people. I personally
> > don't like it (I really liked the "quake terminal"[1] approach), or
> > having four activities to read e-books. But a) it's what the HIG[2]
> > says, for some good reasons (it's not better to have text flashing by
> > all the time -- have you seen how many exceptions are in shell.log!?);
> > and b) it's not a new approach: OSX has the "Console" log viewer,
> > Windows has the Event Viewer.
> >
> > > Even if they do, do you think all that pile of text is really
> > > helpful? (for a developer, sure.. for a 7 years kid probably not,
> > > and if you want him to understand you would have to translate the
> > > log messages anyway).
> >
> > Wait, that's my argument you just stole :).
> >
> > If you're saying the error messages should be better, I don't think
> > anyone would disagree.
> >
> > > * The journal full warning is actually a problem to be solved, #630.
> >
> > Wow, I can't believe it's taken 20 months to fix it. I guess it's not
> > that critical :(.
> >
> > > * What about the frame?, currently it
> > > does nothing about this issue. (except for the floating pulsing
> > > icon)
> >
> > That's exactly what you wanted, but with icons instead of text: a list
> > of the messages from Sugar, without starting an activity.
> >
> > > Again, why should we force users to start an activity to know what is
> > > happening.
> >
> > To summarise:
> >
> > 1) Because the HIG tells us to, and nobody's proposing changing the
> > HIG
> > 2) Because Sugar UI should strive for simplicity, not tons of alerts
> > that only a developer would understand
> > 3) Because it's not clear what advantage over the existing
> > notifications + Log activity you think will exist.
> >
> > > > > I invite everyone to share their ideas on how this feature could
> > > > > work and look.
> >
> > Well, those were my ideas. When you have something more I'm sure we
> > could have a more constructive discussion.
> >
> > > We need sugar to tell the users what is happening otherwise they will
> never
> > > guess it, that is exactly problem in the first place. I can't imagine a
> kid
> > > having to check the log activity every 10 minutes to see if the
> automatic
> > > backup has started recently.
> >
> > I can't imagine any more than a few kids at each deployment (so,
> > that's say 100 of 1.5 million laptops) ever wanting to see if the
> > automatic backup has started recently.
> >
> > > Anyway, if someone does not like the messages and wants just wants to
> read
> > > the log every N minutes they could be disable it :):):)
> >
> > In my experience, every time you show some information to the user
> > that isn't actionable, they hate it.
> >
> > > > Saludos
> > > > > Martin (tch) Abente
> > > >
> > > > Martin
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 1. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Quake_Terminal
> >
> > 2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Human_Interface_Guidelines#Simplicity
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 02:11:51 +0000
> > From: Aleksey Lim <alsroot at member.fsf.org>
> > To: Jim Simmons <nicestep at gmail.com>
> > Cc: It's An Education Project List <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>, Sugar
> > Devel <sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>,
> > discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net, "Community Support Volunteers -- who
> > help respond to help AT laptop.org" <support-gang at lists.laptop.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] More new and revised chapters of "Make Your
> > Own Sugar Activities!" ready for review, feedback
> > Message-ID: <20101107021151.GA3073 at antilopa-gnu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 10:35:06AM -0600, Jim Simmons wrote:
> > > In this latest draft I have added a not quite complete chapter on
> > > Making Shared Activities. The part that is missing is on using DBus
> > > Tubes to remotely call methods, and it's missing because I've never
> > > done it. I do plan to learn how to do this, come up with a decent
> > > example program (something fancier than Hello Mesh), and write it up
> > > in the book, but it will take awhile. The new draft is at:
> > >
> > >
> http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf
> > >
> > > I found out yesterday that copying code from PDF's, either the OBJAVI!
> > > version here or the one the Floss Manuals website produces, does NOT
> > > work. In one case you get garbage and in the second you get code with
> > > no indents. I have set up a Git repository for the sample code in the
> > > book and I will change all the references to copying and pasting code
> > > to "Open file name in the Git project you downloaded".
> > >
> > > I actually had to learn things about Activity Sharing to write the new
> > > chapter, so I am VERY concerned that what I think I learned is
> > > correct. I don't want to lead anyone astray!
> > >
> > > I have reached the point in the book where the stuff I already know is
> > > pretty much done. From now on I'll be learning as I go. If you've
> > > been giving this project the benefit of the doubt now is a good time
> > > to stop doing that.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > James Simmons
> >
> > I've found minor issue on
> > http://en.flossmanuals.net/ActivitiesGuideSugar/SugarDebugging
> >
> > You can also set the logging level outside your program code using an
> environment variable. For instance, in Sugar .82 and lower you can start
> sugar-emulator like this:
> > SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug sugar-emulator
> > The way you accomplish the same thing in Sugar .84 and greater is to edit
> the file ~/.sugar/debug and uncomment the line that sets the
> SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL.
> >
> > "SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug sugar-emulator" will will work in 0.84+ as
> > well if ~/.sugar/debug doesn't reset SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL, i.e.,
> > ~/.sugar/debug just overrides current values right before launching
> > sugar.
> >
> > --
> > Aleksey
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >
> > End of Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
> > *******************************************
>
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