[Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24

[Lloyd Treleven]

The link to  http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf is broken  I tried to locate the pdf here:http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ but couldn't find it

> From: sugar-devel-request at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Subject: Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
> To: sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:00:08 -0500
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: [DESIGN] Messages notification (Martin Dengler)
>    2. Re: More new and revised chapters of "Make Your Own Sugar
>       Activities!" ready for review, feedback (Aleksey Lim)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 02:06:54 +0000
> From: Martin Dengler <martin at martindengler.com>
> To: Martin Abente <martin.abente.lahaye at gmail.com>
> Cc: sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Messages notification
> Message-ID: <20101107020654.GT4822 at ops-13.xades.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 03:07:29AM -0300, Martin Abente wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Martin Dengler <martin at martindengler.com>wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 06:02:28PM -0300, Martin Abente wrote:
> > > > Hello amigos,
> > > >
> > > > Recently I encountered many situations where a system-wide
> > > > notification-messages system is required as a basis for many bug fixes or
> > > > enhancements.
> > > [...]
> > > > Currently, Sugar does not have a mechanism to communicate to users
> > > > different kind of information about sugar itself.
> > >
> > > What about the notification system?  The Log activity?  The Journal
> > > Full warning?  The Frame?  There are a lot of communication
> > > mechanisms, but they dn't seem to do what you wnat:
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > * The notification system only shows an icon floating, and if you want to
> > show a message you have to implement a palette manually, not so DRY
> > considering all the use cases.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by "DRY".  The reason - I guess - for only
> the icon is because text requires translation and literacy (a point
> you make later).  I prefer text (obviously, since we developers work
> with text as much as possible) but this requires a change to the HIG.
> We should think hard about why, and justify it.
> 
> > * Why the user should start an activity to know what is happening?
> 
> I know, this is odd for developers/computer people.  I personally
> don't like it (I really liked the "quake terminal"[1] approach), or
> having four activities to read e-books. But a) it's what the HIG[2]
> says, for some good reasons (it's not better to have text flashing by
> all the time -- have you seen how many exceptions are in shell.log!?);
> and b) it's not a new approach: OSX has the "Console" log viewer,
> Windows has the Event Viewer.
> 
> > Even if they do, do you think all that pile of text is really
> > helpful? (for a developer, sure.. for a 7 years kid probably not,
> > and if you want him to understand you would have to translate the
> > log messages anyway).
> 
> Wait, that's my argument you just stole :).
> 
> If you're saying the error messages should be better, I don't think
> anyone would disagree.
> 
> > * The journal full warning is actually a problem to be solved, #630.
> 
> Wow, I can't believe it's taken 20 months to fix it.  I guess it's not
> that critical :(.
> 
> > * What about the frame?, currently it
> > does nothing about this issue. (except for the floating pulsing
> > icon)
> 
> That's exactly what you wanted, but with icons instead of text: a list
> of the messages from Sugar, without starting an activity.
> 
> > Again, why should we force users to start an activity to know what is
> > happening.
> 
> To summarise:
> 
> 1) Because the HIG tells us to, and nobody's proposing changing the
> HIG
> 2) Because Sugar UI should strive for simplicity, not tons of alerts
> that only a developer would understand
> 3) Because it's not clear what advantage over the existing
> notifications + Log activity you think will exist.
> 
> > > > I invite everyone to share their ideas on how this feature could
> > > > work and look.
> 
> Well, those were my ideas.  When you have something more I'm sure we
> could have a more constructive discussion.
> 
> > We need sugar to tell the users what is happening otherwise they will never
> > guess it, that is exactly problem in the first place. I can't imagine a kid
> > having to check the log activity every 10 minutes to see if the automatic
> > backup has started recently.
> 
> I can't imagine any more than a few kids at each deployment (so,
> that's say 100 of 1.5 million laptops) ever wanting to see if the
> automatic backup has started recently.
> 
> > Anyway, if someone does not like the messages and wants just wants to read
> > the log every N minutes they could be disable it :):):)
> 
> In my experience, every time you show some information to the user
> that isn't actionable, they hate it.
> 
> > > Saludos
> > > > Martin (tch) Abente
> > >
> > > Martin
> 
> Martin
> 
> 1. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Quake_Terminal
> 
> 2. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Human_Interface_Guidelines#Simplicity
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 02:11:51 +0000
> From: Aleksey Lim <alsroot at member.fsf.org>
> To: Jim Simmons <nicestep at gmail.com>
> Cc: It's An Education Project List <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>,	Sugar
> 	Devel <sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>,
> 	discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net,	"Community Support Volunteers -- who
> 	help respond to help AT	laptop.org" <support-gang at lists.laptop.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] More new and revised chapters of "Make Your
> 	Own Sugar Activities!" ready for review, feedback
> Message-ID: <20101107021151.GA3073 at antilopa-gnu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 10:35:06AM -0600, Jim Simmons wrote:
> > In this latest draft I have added a not quite complete chapter on
> > Making Shared Activities.  The part that is missing is on using DBus
> > Tubes to remotely call methods, and it's missing because I've never
> > done it.  I do plan to learn how to do this, come up with a decent
> > example program (something fancier than Hello Mesh), and write it up
> > in the book, but it will take awhile.  The new draft is at:
> > 
> > http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.02.03-18.11.39.pdf
> > 
> > I found out yesterday that copying code from PDF's, either the OBJAVI!
> > version here or the one the Floss Manuals website produces, does NOT
> > work.  In one case you get garbage and in the second you get code with
> > no indents.  I have set up a Git repository for the sample code in the
> > book and I will change all the references to copying and pasting code
> > to "Open file name in the Git project you downloaded".
> > 
> > I actually had to learn things about Activity Sharing to write the new
> > chapter, so I am VERY concerned that what I think I learned is
> > correct.  I don't want to lead anyone astray!
> > 
> > I have reached the point in the book where the stuff I already know is
> > pretty much done.  From now on I'll be learning as I go.  If you've
> > been giving this project the benefit of the doubt now is a good time
> > to stop doing that.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > James Simmons
> 
> I've found minor issue on
> http://en.flossmanuals.net/ActivitiesGuideSugar/SugarDebugging
> 
>     You can also set the logging level outside your program code using an environment variable.  For instance, in Sugar .82 and lower you can start sugar-emulator like this:
>     SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug sugar-emulator
>     The way you accomplish the same thing in Sugar .84 and greater is to edit the file ~/.sugar/debug and uncomment the line that sets the SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL. 
> 
> "SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL=debug sugar-emulator" will will work in 0.84+ as
> well if ~/.sugar/debug doesn't reset SUGAR_LOGGER_LEVEL, i.e.,
> ~/.sugar/debug just overrides current values right before launching
> sugar.
> 
> -- 
> Aleksey
> 
> 
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> End of Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 25, Issue 24
> *******************************************
 		 	   		  
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