[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] Messages notification
martin at martindengler.com
Sat Nov 6 22:06:54 EDT 2010
On Sat, Nov 06, 2010 at 03:07:29AM -0300, Martin Abente wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Martin Dengler <martin at martindengler.com>wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 06:02:28PM -0300, Martin Abente wrote:
> > > Hello amigos,
> > >
> > > Recently I encountered many situations where a system-wide
> > > notification-messages system is required as a basis for many bug fixes or
> > > enhancements.
> > [...]
> > > Currently, Sugar does not have a mechanism to communicate to users
> > > different kind of information about sugar itself.
> > What about the notification system? The Log activity? The Journal
> > Full warning? The Frame? There are a lot of communication
> > mechanisms, but they dn't seem to do what you wnat:
> * The notification system only shows an icon floating, and if you want to
> show a message you have to implement a palette manually, not so DRY
> considering all the use cases.
I'm not sure what you mean by "DRY". The reason - I guess - for only
the icon is because text requires translation and literacy (a point
you make later). I prefer text (obviously, since we developers work
with text as much as possible) but this requires a change to the HIG.
We should think hard about why, and justify it.
> * Why the user should start an activity to know what is happening?
I know, this is odd for developers/computer people. I personally
don't like it (I really liked the "quake terminal" approach), or
having four activities to read e-books. But a) it's what the HIG
says, for some good reasons (it's not better to have text flashing by
all the time -- have you seen how many exceptions are in shell.log!?);
and b) it's not a new approach: OSX has the "Console" log viewer,
Windows has the Event Viewer.
> Even if they do, do you think all that pile of text is really
> helpful? (for a developer, sure.. for a 7 years kid probably not,
> and if you want him to understand you would have to translate the
> log messages anyway).
Wait, that's my argument you just stole :).
If you're saying the error messages should be better, I don't think
anyone would disagree.
> * The journal full warning is actually a problem to be solved, #630.
Wow, I can't believe it's taken 20 months to fix it. I guess it's not
that critical :(.
> * What about the frame?, currently it
> does nothing about this issue. (except for the floating pulsing
That's exactly what you wanted, but with icons instead of text: a list
of the messages from Sugar, without starting an activity.
> Again, why should we force users to start an activity to know what is
1) Because the HIG tells us to, and nobody's proposing changing the
2) Because Sugar UI should strive for simplicity, not tons of alerts
that only a developer would understand
3) Because it's not clear what advantage over the existing
notifications + Log activity you think will exist.
> > > I invite everyone to share their ideas on how this feature could
> > > work and look.
Well, those were my ideas. When you have something more I'm sure we
could have a more constructive discussion.
> We need sugar to tell the users what is happening otherwise they will never
> guess it, that is exactly problem in the first place. I can't imagine a kid
> having to check the log activity every 10 minutes to see if the automatic
> backup has started recently.
I can't imagine any more than a few kids at each deployment (so,
that's say 100 of 1.5 million laptops) ever wanting to see if the
automatic backup has started recently.
> Anyway, if someone does not like the messages and wants just wants to read
> the log every N minutes they could be disable it :):):)
In my experience, every time you show some information to the user
that isn't actionable, they hate it.
> > Saludos
> > > Martin (tch) Abente
> > Martin
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