[Sugar-devel] RFC: Kill the delayed menus for good

[Caroline Meeks]

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:06 AM, C. Scott Ananian <cscott at laptop.org>wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Wade Brainerd <wadetb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu at sugarlabs.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I'd like to put my designer hat on for a minute and offer an
> alternative
> >> > to
> >> > Bernie/Michael's patch and the current behavior:  Any time the mouse
> >> > hovers
> >> > over a part of the screen with a delayed action, that part must
> >> > immediately
> >> > highlight itself.  With the frame, that would be a 1px rectangle
> around
> >> > the
> >> > screen.  With icons, this could be a border rectangle.
>
> > An even nicer option might be to expand "highlight itself" to "hint at
> what
> > it's going to do".
> > For example, an icon with a delayed menu could highlight itself and
> display
> > a little down arrow (similar to the arrows in the new toolbars).
> > With feedback/mockups from the design team I'd be happy to attempt this
> > patch.
>
> I agree with Wade here -- I think the problem is not the delayed menus
> themselves, but that kids are not *discovering* that right-click can
> eliminate the delay.  How are they supposed to discover that?  Perhaps
> some thought along those lines would help.
>
> I myself found that I often waited for the delayed menu, even though I
> knew about right-click, because it was "easier".  That seems to be my
> choice and preference, not a priori a bad thing (even though an
> observer might think it a flaw).  I think that I did this less often
> when the delay was increased, but now we're relying on imperfect
> memory.
>

I agree. Even if I am right there and say "right click" and they have done
it before so I know its "discovered", its hard for the child, and I'm
working with 4th graders, they are at the older end of our age range.  I
think its not natural/developmentally there skill for our users.

Right click is also hard on a macbook with only one mouse and I think its
also hard in various environments for disabilities.


>
> Of course, seeing a small child start to swear is a good indication
> that the user is frustrated and has not discovered any means to
> resolve their frustration.  (Even a "complexity slider" has to be
> discoverable!)
>  --scott
>
> ps. I've found the discussion of ideas here much more interesting than
> the finger-pointing.  Attempts to shift responsibility (it's my patch,
> YOU have to prove that it's wrong -vs- it's my design, YOU have to
> prove that it's wrong) are productive/necessary to some degree, but a
> family matter you guys should take out back somewhere to hash out.  We
> all should (IMHO) be listening much more to Daniel Drake, who seems to
> have the most practical experience guiding his intuitions.  (Caroline,
> too, but I haven't her offer as specific an opinion on the issue.)
>
> pps. Perhaps this thread should have been started as a discussion of
> design (with working code to demonstrate), not as, "here's a patch,
> now if you value contributors you should apply it".
>
> --
>                         ( http://cscott.net/ )
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-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
Caroline at SolutionGrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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