[Sugar-devel] Assorted Debian+Sugar bugs
dr at jones.dk
Wed Oct 14 04:19:57 EDT 2009
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 07:37:07PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>>On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 07:52:11PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
>>>Jonas & co:
>>>I just wanted to report a couple of regressions that I found today
>>>while trying out sugar-0.84 on Sid. In no particular order:
>>Thanks for reporting this.
>You're very welcome; thanks again for your hard work packaging sugar!
>>Even better, however, is if you file issues like this as proper
>I haven't diagnosed the causes of these issues so I don't actually know
>what packages are at fault yet; I'm just reporting behavioral
>regressions. Consequently, I don't know what packages to file the bugs
I understand, but don't let that discourage you: file the issues, as
separate as you feel they make sense to split, against some - any -
package you feel is related to the issue.
It is easy later on to reassign to another package if that turns out to
make more sense. And it is easy to merge issues together (splitting is
possible too, but little more work).
Problems experienced using a specific activity are probably best filed
against the package containing that activity (e.g. sugar-pippy-activity
Only package that would be "bad" to file against is perhaps that
education-desktop-sugar package, as I would not notice bugs filed there
and I suspect noone else will either.
>>I will respond here, cross-posted to both list, to respect your choice
>>of communication platform. But there is a higher risk that your
>>information will not get tracked and the issues not solved by doing it
>By all means, feel free to enter the information into the tracker of
>your choice. I will be happy to follow your lead. I simply do not wish
>to file reports with faulty information.
I can do that, but a) it is more work, b) it is more polite to play by
the communication style of the initiator, causing me to *both* have this
thread going *and* start a new one through the BTS which risks this
thread stealing focus from the other one and thus c) draining attention
away from where bug solving happens.
(exact same is most probably true about Sugarlabs and OLPC bug trackers,
and I am guilty of not engaging very well with those either)
The "more work" a) it not (only) that work is passed from you to me, but
that the "reportbug" tool bootstraps new bugreports elegantly, attaching
you as bugreporter, gathering valuable details about your system, and
guiding you through a few questions to improve effective processing.
Thing is, filling in data is only part of the process. The more
valuable part (in many cases) is a continued dialogue with the
bugreporter - and with others chiming in later with additional info,
something that is encouraged by discussion-style communication which
feels natural in emails.
A thing that I love about the Debian BTS is that it is email-based,
dynamically creating a "mailinglist" for each bugreport. This makes
ongoing discussion with the bugreporter quite fluent, unlike (IMHO) most
web-based systems. Others less fluent with email may obviously disagree
with me on that, but I suspect most _developers_ are fluent in email,
and in my opinion issue tracking should serve developers more than
users. A user-friendly pendant to an issue tracker would IMO be a
different thing, one that e.g. allowed users to "let off steam" even if
irrelevant to the developers (similar to an issue tracker dealing with
details of absolutely no interest to the user).
>You may, however, be interested to know that, as of yesterday,
>sugar-0.86 depends on substantially more material than sugar-0.84. (To
>the tune of 300 MB more, I think.)
Oh my :-(
A few days ago I installed a smallest-possible install of (the
Debian-packaged parts of) Sugar 0.86. I am not yet satisfied with the
configurations, and have not gotten rid of some old cruft, but I believe
it required less than 200MB, including X11, GNU and BSD utilities and
the kernel. If stripping unused locales I can probably save another
Maybe I am oldfashioned, but I still find it a worthy challenge to
squeeze a full system into 256MB or 512MB USB sticks.
>>>P.S. - Please also find attached the output of "dpkg -l" run from
>>>inside my testing chroot. This chroot was constructed by the code in
>>>the "sugar" branch of
>>>with conf/distro == debian and conf/debian/distro == sid.
>>Ahem, does this mean that you did not in fact use a Debian system but
>>some homecooked lookalike?
>I test sugar in chroots so as to be able to efficiently generate
>reproducible results across multiple distros. My debian chroots are
>constructed with debootstrap, as is apparent in the "debian.mk"
>Makefile in source code that I mentioned.
Sounds interesting (as I would expect from you!) I do still, however,
recommend you to mention any such "specialties" about your environment
when filing bugreports. Yes, some developers may react in the line of
"get lost, you don't use a pristine system!", but others (like me) will
still appreciate your input but will be helped to know that some issues
perhaps are triggered only under odd circumstances.
Finding out _later_ about oddities of an environment is almost certain
to cause grumpy developers, no matter if it turned out to be relevant
for the particular issue dealt with: you feel cheated if not openly
provided all potentially relevant data.
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
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