[Sugar-devel] On Sugar 0.84 - status of the "Chat/collab leader" issue...

David Van Assche dvanassche at gmail.com
Wed Nov 4 05:09:43 EST 2009

Don't get me wrong though, I agree thoroughly that we should really
test it and make sure it plays as advertised.... But I think its gonna
be easier to do that than test/scale/stabalise what we currently have.


On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:06 AM, David Van Assche <dvanassche at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, at least on Gnome, Mission Control not only works well, but its
> far more stable and does what its supposed to. Its been very heavily
> tested by Nokia (Maemo), Collabra, Google, openmoko and other heavy
> hitters. I don't really agree that we have something that works with
> sugar presence. In the majority of cases, where  we've had testing
> sessions, though admittedly, with badly callibrated xmpp servers, I
> would go so far as to say that it was attrocious in terms of
> performance and stability. Once connected, collaboration worked great,
> but the stuff that happens before that, which is what sugar presence
> is supposed to be taking care of does not work well at all. If you
> take a look at telepathy-inspector and the advancements in telepathy
> itself, of which mission control 5 is one of the major overhauls, its
> massive improvement over the passed. And one of the main issues was
> that sugar presence used its own bindings, blind sighting a lot of
> what telepathy is doing, which is why currently it simply doesn't
> work. Without a xmpp server, you'll have a field day getting any kind
> of collaboration to work, and even with a really carefully setup
> ejabbberd server full of optimisations, I at least, have not been able
> to get the presence part to reliably do the same thing every time.
> Some times people show up, sometimes they dont sometimes 10 minutes
> later, sometimes with totally weird settings and names.... Its quite
> clear to me that what may have worked ok in 0.82, now does not. And to
> me that makes total sense, if u look at the timeline, the code, the
> blueprints, and most importantly, the actualised telepathy dbus
> bindings (The presence part has changed completely and looks nothing
> like it did when 0.82 and earlier were coded.)
> But dont take my word for it, take a look here and you'll see what I
> mean: http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/chapter.accounts.html
> kind regards,
> David Van Assche
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Martin Langhoff
> <martin.langhoff at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:54 PM, David Van Assche <dvanassche at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> moving to mission control 5 and letting go of the admittedly
>>> antiquated sugar presence now
>> In planning future work in rpesence and collab stuff, I have a small,
>> humble suggestion.
>> Figuring out if a presence service / collab infra works and scales
>> properly on both wired and wireless networks is hard. Very hard. We've
>> been gotten it wrong several times by looking at the theory (instead
>> of hard-nosed testing).
>> Right now we have something that -- while less than ideal -- at least
>> works for a number of scenarios.
>> If you play with a major component replacement
>>  - test it for scalability & stability over wifi before doing a lot of
>> integration work
>>  - do the integr work on a branch
>>  - test that the integrated thing works stable and scalable
>> Of course that's ideal world stuff. However, the heart of the matter
>> is: approach mission control tentatively... and at least _some_
>> significant testing needs to happen before it's merged...
>> We've gotten this wrong a few times -- I am not keen on repeating the
>> adventures... :-/
>> m
>> --
>>  martin.langhoff at gmail.com
>>  martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect
>>  - ask interesting questions
>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
> --
> Stephen Leacock  - "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue
> that I shall some day die, which is not so." -
> http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html


Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach  - "Even a stopped clock is right twice a
day." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html

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